#11 Mental Health & Addiction | Part 2 with Shira Burstein, LCSW

Episode 11 of The GDC Project continues our powerful conversation with Shira Burstein, LCSW, as we dive deeper into mental health, emotional struggles, and the realities of addiction.
In Part 2, we explore how anxiety, trauma, emotional pain, family dynamics, and unresolved struggles can contribute to unhealthy coping mechanisms and addictive behaviors. We discuss the importance of self-awareness, communication, boundaries, and seeking support before struggles become overwhelming.
Shira brings both professional insight and compassionate perspective to the conversation, helping break down the stigma surrounding therapy, mental health, and addiction recovery. This episode is about understanding that healing is not weakness — it’s growth, accountability, and learning how to move forward one step at a time.
If you or someone you love is struggling with mental health or addiction, this conversation serves as a reminder that you are not alone and that support is available.
Featuring:
Shira Burstein, LCSW
Licensed Clinical Social Worker 
📍 Stamford, CT & Brooklyn, NY
📞 347-673-1192
📧 bursteinshira@gmail.com
🌐 Shira Burstein Therapy
Learn more about Shira’s work, therapy services, and resources through her website.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:07

I gotta go one at a time. I did it when I recorded with my mom. You only did 10 minutes.

SPEAKER_01 0:12

But uh to make sure it was okay.

SPEAKER_00 0:16

No, I never hit record on the camera. I just wanted to sit in touch with her. Um I mean we could we could actually even start there with with my mom, um, what we talked about.

SPEAKER_01 0:30

Is it recording?

SPEAKER_00 0:31

It we're technically recording, as long as you start. Well, I mean, you can see her face now if you know if you look at me. Okay. It's better. It's so much better. Um before I had it there pointing at you. So it's almost like we swapped the cameras. So like that one was pointing at you before.

SPEAKER_01 0:53

Oh, right, right.

SPEAKER_00 0:54

And it was on the desk, and this one was pointing at me and it was on the desk. So we kind of switched them. I mean, yeah, you still see profile, but it's not like before it was like twists.

SPEAKER_01 1:05

My friend was like, Were you like so nervous that you covered your whole face?

SPEAKER_00 1:08

Yeah, and your hair is like like your hair's but uh I wasn't trying to cover my good face. Yeah. No. All right, let me. This just sinks everything up. We don't have to even start yet, but that's just like the sink of three cameras and audio. And the guy who edits it can kind of put them together. Put them together. Okay. Yeah. All right, welcome back to the GDC project. I'm sitting here for a second time with Shira Burstein. Um, so last time we did like the whole episode, and I kind of wanted to add in before we started like how people could contact you.

SPEAKER_01 1:46

Oh, perfect.

SPEAKER_00 1:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:48

So I appreciate that. Um, so if anyone wants to contact me, um, you can go to my website. It's www.shirabursteentherapy dot com. Um, just my full name with therapy at the end. Um, S-H-I-R-A-B-U-R-S-T-E-I-N, T H E R A P Y dot com. Um, on the website it has all my contact information, but um you can also just email me directly, bursteenshear at gmail.com. Um, you can use my Google voice number. It's 347-673-1192. Um, and other than that, um, I guess if you find me on social media, which I don't really have a social media presence just for mental health, um, you can always contact me there also. Um, but those are the best ways. And it, you know, I think if you want to and you need to, it's my door is always open anytime for anybody.

SPEAKER_00 2:43

Well, thank you. I know you've been such a big help for uh my family, like we mentioned last time. Um, today I want to talk about a few different things. And we were just speaking about uh an episode that I did with my mom that's not live yet, that we talked about regrets.

SPEAKER_02 2:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:00

Um we're approaching two years of my sister, and she's struggling and having a lot of regrets would happen, not like through my sister's whole like we'll say childhood and struggles, but more towards the end. Um like like the months before she died, the months before she died, and how she was holding um regret for the things that she didn't do.

SPEAKER_02 3:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:28

And also you mentioned before, what was the first thing you mentioned before that families do?

SPEAKER_01 3:34

Um, well, I think I I definitely want to talk about that. Um, but I I think just for the person who's listening, who um is going through the dynamic now with the per the person who, you know, as I said, the identified client. It it doesn't even have to be drugs and alcohol, it could be whatever is causing the rip the rift in the family. Um, there's different issues structurally in families, triangulation, enmeshment, parentified child. Um, and we could talk about those now or we could talk about them in a little bit, but you know, it's just the way that people relate to each other um in healthy or unhealthy manners that you know exacerbate the issue that's happening.

SPEAKER_00 4:18

Well, let's talk about triangulation. Um, we could go like one at a time and then we'll talk about your mama. Yeah, and then pair it to like a situation that maybe happened with me or my family.

SPEAKER_01 4:29

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 4:29

Um triangulation.

SPEAKER_01 4:32

Okay. So when you're talking about triangulation, it's sort of like if you think about middle school, when it would be okay if you had a hangout with one person, but then whenever another person is included, there was there's always that possibility of like the two two ganging up on the other. And it's not necessarily in that immature level, but there tends to be instances in families where when there's a problem going on, um, you need to, you know, we spoke about like uh unified decisions. It's almost an easier way to um get one other person to be sympathetical with you on what your viewpoints are. And in that way, you make like an alliance with one other person, and there's the third person who you you use and almost target in a way to manipulate and gain power for your um collect collective desired goal, you and the other person. And really sometimes it's one person's desired goals. They kind of make a person, another person, their attachment as their support, and they use the third person as like leverage for um getting things to be a certain way that they'd prefer. Um and I don't know if you have an example in mind from your own family.

SPEAKER_00 5:47

So it's like two against one.

SPEAKER_01 5:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:49

But that person's using that one person for like leverage.

SPEAKER_01 5:53

In a way, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 5:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:54

You know, it's like, well, we said this, or um, if you're gonna, I don't know, you know, if you want to um if you want to have a better relationship with this person who is using, you know, we do this with them. And you know, you should also consider doing that.

SPEAKER_00 6:15

Yeah, I know um, I don't know if it's the the exact thing, but with my sister, she would um she was a good manipulator, but she would use my aunt, but I don't think it's leverage, it was more of like well, that's the getting what she needed that someone else wasn't providing. So like my mom and aunt would be my mom would be like, we need to do this with Gabrielle. We talked about that too, like we're not a collective. Right. And Matt would be like sneaking behind and giving her things. My grandmother would do it too. It wasn't just I don't want to just say it was my aunt.

SPEAKER_02 6:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:46

But she would like figure out who she could get what she wanted from and then use that person.

SPEAKER_01 6:52

Yeah, and you know what? I I actually think it's better that you put in those terms because I was saying it more like, you know, the others, like you and your mom, or you and your wife. And but really I think in these circumstances that are so heightened, it's most likely as you're saying it, the person who's causing the problem who's manipulating another person and then kind of making this, you know, we're in cahoots, um, even though your sister is like the ringleader, um, it causes issues, like you said, on on the side. Um, maybe she would want something from her daughter, maybe she would want something from your mom. And, you know, those two were a little bit more strong against her, and your aunt was a little bit more uh passive pacifying what she needed, so she could, you know, go and it's like smelling smelling a weakness.

SPEAKER_05 7:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:45

Um would I mean, when that would happen, how would the third person so my mom would get super upset?

SPEAKER_00 7:54

She would think like um my aunt was like abandoning her or you know, counteracting the problem. So it would cause a riff um between my mom and aunt or my mom and grandmother. Uh, but it wouldn't affect my mom and Gabriella's relationship.

SPEAKER_01 8:10

No, it never does because that person is like the alpha, you know, Gabriella's the alpha in a way, even though she's the one falling apart, she's the one has who has control. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:20

So I used to say, I don't know if this is this is um true or not, but everyone needs like some sort of significance.

SPEAKER_05 8:27

Sure.

SPEAKER_00 8:27

And Gabriella gained her significance through manipulation, but chaos. Like um, you know, if if we all went on like a family trip, she would like overdose or do something bad or yeah or cause some some sort of drama, even if it wasn't a family. It was just my mom and dad went away. She would always do something to pull them back in where she was the most important thing. Right.

SPEAKER_01 8:52

Well, and the stakes are so high, right? Because you're afraid that she will overdose and die. You are afraid that she will um, you know, use and never come back and totally shut the door on you guys. And in a way, it's, you know, I I feel so mixed about it because on one hand, I don't like to blame anybody who's struggling. And on the other hand, it makes you feel angry that this person knows how vulnerable everyone else is feeling, and yet they still deploy these kind of manipulative tactics.

SPEAKER_00 9:26

Do you think they know? Like, I I to me I wouldn't say she did it intentionally.

SPEAKER_01 9:32

I know.

SPEAKER_00 9:33

Like, I I think I think there's it's her way of like connect getting connection, yeah, not a way of creating the damage that was created.

SPEAKER_01 9:43

Meaning you're you you see the behavior and it seems sort of evil. Okay, good, evil. But you as I said the last time, you know, you have to dig deeper and look for what where the hurt is, and that's really more what drives the reality of the situation. I agree with you, but I also think that there's a small level of deliberate use of other people's fragility because um in a way, you know, when you have as I said before about comorbidities, when you have drug uh addiction, alcohol addiction, there's also something else going on mentally, mental health, right? Um depression, anxiety. We have people who use a lot who are borderline personality, um, you know, lots of different stuff. And there's a level of knowing a little bit what you're doing because it's part of what created the whole problem to begin with. The mental health, the environmental, um, and and just your biology together.

SPEAKER_00 10:51

Yeah, we used to say my sister was very smart.

SPEAKER_01 10:53

Exactly. Um why did you say that though?

SPEAKER_00 10:56

Because she knew how to get her way. But where I want to push back is like she was very smart. Yes, she was attacking the weakness, but I also don't think she saw past that. Like, like, okay, I could get my aunt to do this, but she didn't see the like downstream effect of my aunt doing that.

SPEAKER_01 11:17

Meaning how like the ripple effect towards the ripple effect towards my mom.

SPEAKER_00 11:20

Yeah, she used you like this singular focus, not like the whole kaleidoscope of everything that was going on. So that's where, like, was she really acting like in malevolence, or was she just, you know, folk what can I get? Yeah, I don't care what else happens.

SPEAKER_01 11:38

Yeah. You know, I I only know your sister from high school, and then I would kind of run into her in time peripherally. It's not like I but to me, your sister was like this beautiful. I mean, really, I always thought she was so beautiful, um, always with a big smile on her face, super nice and approachable. And I don't think I never ever thought of her evil. You know what I mean? I never thought of her as a mean person. Um I don't think it's I hear what you're saying that she was smart and maybe it's single-minded, the action and intention, but you have to also consider that I'm sure your mom had texts and conversations with her, showed your sister the pain and suffering she was having. And in that way, you can't deny that, you know, and your mom needs to for respect and for validation, you know. I think that has to be included in the whole analysis because it's not like your sister did that, spoke to your aunt on the side, she'd get what she wants, and then you know, your your mom would hear it off on the edge, and then your mom would cry and be upset, and she would never, no one would say a word to your sister about what happened.

SPEAKER_00 12:50

Yeah, you know, like even my mom the other day, like my mom likes to hold stuff in.

SPEAKER_01 12:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:55

Um, but she's not very good at it.

SPEAKER_01 12:58

I love that about her.

SPEAKER_00 12:59

Yeah, so it's like I said, what's wrong? Nothing. Right. I'm like, there's definitely something wrong. And that's where she kind of came up that she was struggling and having some regrets. And the thing about the triangulation, one of the things that she regretted was going to see my sister.

SPEAKER_01 13:17

Towards the end, she regretted In Texas.

SPEAKER_00 13:19

My sister was in Texas. She wanted my mom to go down. Um, but sh her and my dad weren't talking.

SPEAKER_01 13:27

Your sister and your dad.

SPEAKER_00 13:28

Yeah. So my sister was like, Come down, bring dad, and I just won't talk to him.

SPEAKER_01 13:34

They'll just sit in silence and then together.

SPEAKER_00 13:37

Well, I don't know if he would like maybe my dad would go play golf or something, but but my mom's like, my mom and dad are like super close. Yeah. And my mom's like, I'm not coming if you're not speaking to my husband. And she regrets that she didn't go.

SPEAKER_01 13:52

And because of what? What's the regret about?

SPEAKER_00 13:56

Like it like it, I she thinks it like she's just I don't think she thinks there would have been any change. She just wishes she would have gone.

SPEAKER_01 14:05

So that she could have seen her one more time?

SPEAKER_00 14:07

Well, we don't know if it would have been one more time.

SPEAKER_01 14:09

Right.

SPEAKER_00 14:09

Like you're regretting that you didn't go because you didn't see her one more time. And one of the things like we talked about is you never like regret in the moment and you never really have like time to go back. Right. But you could change the behavior.

SPEAKER_02 14:25

Right.

SPEAKER_00 14:25

And I think part of our conversation was like doing the things that you want to do, like all the time. Because you never know when like the last time's gonna be the last conversation, the the last time you play with your kid. So you like never know when the last time's the last time.

SPEAKER_01 14:43

Yeah, but that's a huge, huge pressure. And I actually um when you said it just now, like, well, we wouldn't have known if it was it might have not have been. Yeah, you know, it it almost insinuates that perhaps there's a possibility that that visit would have, you know, changed something each year. And that's really a difficult place to put herself in. Um, it I think so much about it that what you're talking about. I um was very close with my grandmother. She was like 93 when she died, but we were I spoke to her every day on the phone. Yeah, I would visit her, she lived in in Stanford and I would visit her often. And um, she died around Thanksgiving, like right before Thanksgiving. And the day before she died, I FaceTimed with her. My mom said she's not doing so good. I FaceTime with her and I saw her, and I I I was like, this is not good. She's not gonna make it, I don't think. And my mom said, Do you want to come over? And I said, No, no, no, no, I'm good. I'll I'll come tomorrow.

SPEAKER_00 15:40

Yeah, and she passed away.

SPEAKER_01 15:41

And she and and you know what? And I I was I said I would it was for weeks and weeks I told my husband, like I saw how she was, I knew she wasn't okay. It was the most different time ever, and I was scared or I I don't know, but I didn't go and I can't believe it. And I and he told me, Listen, you you went five times last week and the week before, and you know, you spoke to her every day, and um I was still stuck on what I didn't do that I should have, I could have, you know. Um, would she have felt differently?

SPEAKER_00 16:15

Would it, you know, in a way it's like I don't think she would have felt differently. She might have regret about something else.

SPEAKER_01 16:22

Well, I'm talking about will my grandmother have felt differently. Yeah. It's like I think in a way, maybe to humble myself and maybe for you guys not to like say you guys are being arrogant about your your effect, but um sometimes we do that because it's about us. Like if we if we went, then we would have it would have been better. She would have been more at peace, you know, like we're this thing that makes it all better, healer and everything. Um, but it also is um a feeling like you you want to make sure that you've like closed all the loops. And I think in the case for your mom, um, all of you, for myself, any other time, you have to think about how uh loops and also um like um what's it called when people like what do they say when they have closure? It's not necessarily in the exact moment the closure is needed, it's not necessarily with the exact person in the moment. There's other loops that have been created. You have to look for them. You know, I I have to say to myself, I had a beautiful relationship with this grandmother of mine, and it existed on another day the way I wished. And when she died, it wasn't that she thought, my neglectful, abandoning granddaughters, not by my side, you know. Um, maybe your mom has to think about all the times that she was there, and your mom was with a lot of weight.

SPEAKER_00 17:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:50

A lot.

SPEAKER_00 17:50

But may um maybe it's different because, like, I mean, the past two years we lost my sister, my grandfather, my grandmother.

SPEAKER_02 17:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:57

Like my grandmother and grandfather, they were like the same thing. 93, 94, lived a good life, had a lot of good memories. Maybe it's different because my sister did live in pain for so long. Right. Um, and she didn't get to live a full life, and it's a parent bearing. So, like, I think there's a lot of factors that go into that.

SPEAKER_02 18:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:17

Because, you know, as a parent, our job is to like raise a happy, successful child. I mean, that's what I think what we all hope and and dream. So maybe part of that like regret is is like you said, like self, like, what could I have done better as a parent?

SPEAKER_01 18:35

Yeah, and you know, not to like over-disclose with your stuff with your mom, but um, and it's not just her. I think um I'm sure you and Jen, and I know I have with my husband on very minor levels, you know, something very inconsequential. We're like, oh my gosh, we should have done that or could have done that.

SPEAKER_00 18:58

I all the time. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:00

I think it's every like I feel like I make a mistake every fucking day.

SPEAKER_01 19:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:05

And I'm like, oh, I could have done that better. I could have done that. I shouldn't have said it this way, I shouldn't have done it that way.

SPEAKER_01 19:10

But you know what? I have clients whose parents, and I've met with some of them, adult clients who I met with their parents, whose parents don't think like that. Don't ever clock that, don't ever worry about that. And that is way worse. And um, and those adult children know that they have parents who do not worry that they did something wrong. They do not think they did something wrong ever. Um, and it's not that children are yearning for their parents to be like martyrs and um self-flagellations all the time, but uh you want your parent to to care um unconditionally about you. And I know your sister saw your mom as an unconditional loving parent at times. Maybe you couldn't tell. Like you said, maybe it looks evil, but deep down inside it's you know her.

SPEAKER_00 20:04

I mean, she always craved my mom. Yeah. Like always, and your mom needs to think. Yeah, and she craved my dad too. And I think that's like my dad shows love differently.

SPEAKER_01 20:14

For sure.

SPEAKER_00 20:14

And he's not like the hug I love you type guy. Yeah. So, you know, it's like maybe she was craving the love that he wasn't capable of giving. Like she had to realize it was love in a different aspect.

SPEAKER_01 20:27

Yeah, but um, but I think still there's the opportunity that it was obvious that you know that they cared enough for her.

SPEAKER_00 20:38

So triangulation, what was the second one?

SPEAKER_01 20:41

Um, so another one that I've talked about is um the parencified child. So, you know, that's when you have a kid. And again, it doesn't have to be a kid with a parent who's using or abusing substances. It could be I like I had a client whose mom was prostituting herself in the city. And like this kid, she was in middle school, she was the one who had to, you know, uh get the groceries. She's the one who had to, when the police would come, she would have to explain like what's going on. She would have to cover for her mom. Um, you know, when it was time for her to get uh permission slips, like she was the one forging her mom's signature and all this stuff. Um and it happens when you have somebody who's dealing with some extreme issue, either a personality disorder, um, substance abuse issue. And they, I, you know, in a way, it's like they don't have the capacity to rise up into the role of parent, even though they've had a child. And so you have kids who are um growing up too soon, feeling responsible, you know, almost like the way your mom feels. It's like the child feels that way too, as deeply, like there's something I could have. Done more. I wasn't there for them. I I if I would have been more lovable, they wouldn't have done these things. Um learning how to lie to cover up for that person because they're humiliated or embarrassed or they're afraid, you know, of getting in trouble, um, afraid of their parent getting in trouble and then being, you know, like incarcerated or sent away or ostracized from the family. Um and it causes a lot of problems for kids who need to grow up with a reliably reliable parent who they get to be the parents and the kids get to be the kids, and they don't understand those complicated things until later, you know. Um, I think these days there's so many political things people talk about. Like, why are we telling kids about these topics at this age? You know, when when you and I were growing up playing outside, yeah, we were like pretending we were Power Rangers and we were like dreaming of marrying like our celebrity crushes who were, you know, like people in a movie, and that's really about it. We weren't talking about politics, we weren't talking about sexuality and gender and nothing. And you know, and now you have these kids who are um having to deal with abuse, um, violence, um, lying, complicated, deep thoughts, uh, stuff that I don't think you need to know about when you're that age.

SPEAKER_00 23:31

I mean, when you came in, that's like one of the main things I wanted to talk about. Not even that age, it's like our age. It's how do you deal with, you know, all the things you just said, but you we got like for me, I go crazy. Like, I get such anxiety about like ticks, okay, chemtrails, uh the war, politics, like and it's a constant bombardment of information, negativity.

SPEAKER_01 24:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:01

Um, so parent we're talking about parent parentified. Parentified child that has to deal with all these things they shouldn't be dealing with. But that we're at the point now where that doesn't go away. It almost like exacerbates and gets worse and worse and worse. Um I think as we age.

SPEAKER_01 24:24

Yeah, you know.

SPEAKER_00 24:25

And as technology, and we talked about technology, the faster we get information, the with the AI, like it everything's happening so fast and it's so much, and it's so negative.

SPEAKER_01 24:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:36

Um, it's like, how do we deal with that?

SPEAKER_01 24:39

Yeah, listen, I'm struggling with that every day, how to deal with it. So I won't say I'm the expert, but um it's rough. I mean, I even started with a new client this week, an 80-year-old, and she was telling me that all of her algorithms are making her feel that she's not doing it well. And I said, What is it? And she said, aging. And I I was like, You're 80 years old. You are your kids are grown, they're out of the house, you live in a beautiful big house, you're an artist, you're still doing your art, you look like you're 50, your husband's still alive, the algorithm is telling you you didn't do it right. What aren't you doing right? Yeah, you know, and I felt scared a little bit, you know. I'm 40. I feel like it's so negative, and you're supposed to be this, you're supposed to do that. And here's an 80-year-old. I used to think, you know, like when you're 80, you don't give a crap anymore. You're like, who cares? I'm being me. I've earned it, you know. And I think these things like, you know, when you have issues at home, and then social media is showing you all your peers who are doing all these things and looking so great and all this stuff, um, it it causes a lot more turmoil. I don't know how to fix it, Tim.

SPEAKER_00 26:01

I mean, no, because I like I mean, we're a recovery podcast or a substance abuse podcast, and you know, we talk about the main cause of substance abuse is trauma.

SPEAKER_01 26:13

Sure. Right.

SPEAKER_00 26:14

But then it's like, okay, what about anxiety, depression?

SPEAKER_01 26:18

It makes it worse.

SPEAKER_00 26:19

Uh-huh. And or it it maybe that's a different trigger. And then it's like we know that anxiety our anxiety and depression are coming from like a low self-worth.

SPEAKER_02 26:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:29

But then we have like a technology that's telling us consistently that we're not good enough.

SPEAKER_01 26:34

For sure. I mean, and and I think to some degree, like I was saying to you earlier, you have to participate in the evolution of our society and technology. Um, but it's a choice, right? Like, just like you choose to have like a rural life outside, um, you can choose to participate or not. And how you participate is is all that you can do. You know, there was a period of time in the recent past that I was like glomming up all this negative stuff, and I was really in a dark headspace, and it wasn't helping me, it wasn't helping my clients, nobody around me. Um, you you do have enormous power with your one finger to shut it off, you know. Um, and you can. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:22

Well, there's a device I got, it's called the BRIC where you could actually schedule it and shut shut off your phone so you can't even do it. Um and I use it for one of my daughters, Kinsley. But you have the choice to participate, yes.

SPEAKER_02 27:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:38

But also you don't have the choice over, like we talked about before, AI and how it's affecting the future. Even if you're not participating, it still affects can be affecting you. And one of my biggest fears is AI. And we talked about parenting, the future it's leaving for our kids.

SPEAKER_02 28:01

Right.

SPEAKER_00 28:01

And the more, I mean, we talk about addiction, but the the more like technology and the faster it goes, the more fearful I am that the addiction crisis is gonna skyrocket because people can't, you know, find purpose, passion, true like self-actualization. Like, what do I do with my life? What's my job going to be? Like, I think there's a lot of confusion and chaos in that realm, even for kids right now, getting out of college. Like, where are they going? Like, what are they doing?

SPEAKER_01 28:36

Well, but I want to tell you something. I think that um maybe it seems not possible, but I think when I was so wrapped up in it, I kept going, everything was globalized. The whole world is like this. Everyone thinks like this, everything is just like this. Um, and then I remembered I have myself, my autonomy, I have my husband, you know, I have my kids, um, and of course my close extended family and friends. And I am able to curate and inject inside of that space the world that I want to be part of and the world I want to live in. And things like the parentified child exist even without the AI, even without addiction exists without, and you have to find a way to get inside of your little cocoon, and you have to be the one to bring up things that are normal issues and problems, like um, for example, in terms of, you know, addiction and everything, just to keep it in that line, um, you know, like there there was a conversation, I'll say it like in a very vague way that I had about um a project that had to be done in school about families. And the the kid in that situation was so hurt and like had to face something. It wasn't like they had to do um a thing on the computer. It's not like they had to participate in a TikTok dance or anything. It was like a handwritten project, old school business about family stuff that caused all the turmoil to be trudged up for this little person inside a big, big problem that they were hiding from their classmates. Like that wasn't really a public thing at that point. And I'm saying that because I also am afraid of the big technology world and where it's going, but still the basic world of problems is existing, and when you deal with that and you remove this globalized, like you're so worried about, I get it, but you can't worry about the whole wide world and if it's gonna be like everyone's gonna be a drug addict by the next 10 years because there's no coping mechanisms anymore. Yeah, you worry about what happens when your kid goes to school and someone goes like, how come your cousin's aunt never comes to like the blah blah blah? And they have to say, Oh, she died, and how'd she die? And you know, that stuff is still happening, and you have to worry about that. Um I'm not telling you not to worry about like um, you know, with the GDC project, you're doing this to help many more people beyond your cocoon. But first you have to be grounded to help other people, and you have to make sure that you feel okay, you know, with the day-to-day issues that are going on that are poking at people, even in your own immediate family. Um, it doesn't become that way because of the computer. It becomes that way because life is hard. And then after that, you can help your kids to be strong, you know, or your family members or anyone, you know. I used to be like, oh my gosh, um this this influencer, they showed me like this is me in May. I'm 400 pounds, and in August they were like 20 pounds. And how come that's happening? And I would feel so confused and upset about myself, my progress. It's nothing. I don't even know, I don't think it's even real what I saw.

SPEAKER_00 32:15

It probably isn't real.

SPEAKER_01 32:17

But that's what but but it took me a long time, and it took me meeting with people and talking to people who are more professional about that stuff, and um to understand who I am, you know, not even just in the body world, but to know who I am, um to be strong with like convictions and values and mindset, which you do a lot, you know, you you give that to your family, and I talked about it last time. Um, and if they have that, then when the computers and the AI and all this, they'll know the difference, you know.

SPEAKER_00 32:52

And and that's like uh I mean, what I've been really working on for the past 10 years, it's like, how do I become my best self?

SPEAKER_02 33:01

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_00 33:02

And I think that's like the for my sobriety, I'm like a year 11 or maybe 12, that's been like the catalyst of my success. Is like, what is the my best version of myself? Um, and chasing that. And that's like that Mavslov's hierarchy needs the self-acts actualization.

SPEAKER_01 33:25

I was I was gonna say that too. I was thinking about that chart in the car on the way.

SPEAKER_00 33:29

So it's like my and that's like the GDC. I want to push people for that, right? You have your basic needs, and then we could go up the chart, but it's self-actualization, it's chasing the best version of yourself. But you need all the other needs first. Um and I have the luxury of being able to chase that.

SPEAKER_02 33:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:48

And and then you have like we talked about like regrets, living with regrets. And I think the regrets and failures is what drives the self-actualization. It's like the negative things that happen push you in a direction. I talked about anxiety and depression. I also think anxiety and depression are like the things that you need to work on. It's like, what are you anxious about?

SPEAKER_02 34:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:14

Um, okay, work on those things. What's making you depressed? Okay, work on those things. And I think uh being able to look at those things and work on them when I actually do it puts me in a better mental space. Yeah. When I don't let it fester, that's when it like it almost like gains momentum um going forward.

SPEAKER_01 34:37

Well, I think a couple things. I think in in in the fairness of the person going through those things, you know, of course, we consider everything, right? Like again, the biology and the environmental and all that stuff to to to deal with them, with to deal with depression, to deal with anxiety. Um, and there's so many which ways you can deal with stuff. Um, with in in terms of Maslow's hierarchy of needs, I really was, I can't believe you even brought it up because I was really thinking about it in the car. And um I want to say it to you like this you do it have to go through all the levels, you know, it's like food, shelter, you know, when you see it, and then it's like intimacy and all that stuff.

SPEAKER_00 35:24

Relationships.

SPEAKER_01 35:25

Yeah. And um I remember um talking to a client about Maslow's hierarchy. I mean, they were having such a hard time with self-actualization. And I was telling them, okay, look.

SPEAKER_00 35:36

Well, you need all this first.

SPEAKER_01 35:37

Well, but here's the thing you're the author of what I know that Maslow had written shelter first. And it's like the food pyramid.

SPEAKER_04 35:45

The food pyramid, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:46

Okay, but but that in my view of mental health, there's the theories, and then you're all you're the individual. Just like, you know, in medicine, you can say this and this causes uh disease, but then you have the person, the real life person, and they have so many different variables than what the book says. So you have to consider it, you need to make it tailor-made. And with Maslow's hierarchy of need, in my opinion, you you have the levels, but you're the writer. So, okay, you wanna like I I told my client once, I dreamed of hand feeding hummingbirds. I don't I saw it on I saw it on Instagram, so I wanted to do that. Um first I did, you know, first I got a feeder, then I did this and that, but I I never got it, okay? Then I saw a hummingbird, and then one day I was like sitting somewhere, and I was just so, so close to this hummingbird. I didn't feed it, I didn't interact with it. I didn't, I just was closer than ever before. And I had felt that I had reached the actualization. I was like, I texted Zit and oh my god, I can't believe it. I was literally smelling the beak of a hummingbird, you know. That's not what I dreamed of. I dreamed of in the hand. But for me, I I wanted to succeed. I wanted to have the joy. It was my wish for myself. And so I adjusted it, you know. And I think all of us have that right. And and I think when it comes to coping with addiction, coping with depression, coping with anxiety, surviving the death of a person who has died from overdose or suicide or anything, it's such a struggle to get through depression and anxiety. There's all these images of what it looks like to be succeeding on the internet, you know, all over the world. Um, you have to decide each day like what your hierarchy of needs is, because I think if we only have the end goal, that's the pinnacle, we have to wait a long time sometimes.

SPEAKER_03 37:52

We have to wait sometimes lifetimes.

SPEAKER_01 37:55

And um, we we're the kind of creatures that need more immediate gratification. So um, what I'm saying to you is use that as a suggestion. And then you every day make like today, it's like this is the foundation, this is the middle, this is, and I'm gonna self-actualize in this way today. I have clients who are so depressed. One of my clients' daughters died from the flu many years ago. And in the beginning, when we worked together, she was like, one day she told me, Well, I took a shower today, and I was like, that's amazing. I'm so happy for you that you finally were able to do that. You know, she self-actualized to take care of herself for a shower, you know.

SPEAKER_00 38:41

And that was it for her.

SPEAKER_01 38:42

And I was so glad she did that. So Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:46

We're we I don't know what's going on. We might be losing battery, but um I thought I charge everything. That one died, but it only had 30 minutes. This one, it looks like it's dying.

SPEAKER_01 38:58

Is it dead?

SPEAKER_00 39:00

Well, that one, that one doesn't matter because it's a dual camera. But this one's it's flashing because um it's probably dying soon. Do you want to so the only problem is I don't have a second, second battery.

SPEAKER_01 39:12

Oh no. I don't know what's happening with this one.

SPEAKER_00 39:14

That one's fine.

SPEAKER_01 39:14

Should we just sit right side by side?

SPEAKER_00 39:16

No, we could uh if they when this one dies, we could put that one in the middle and then just keep going for however many more minutes.

SPEAKER_01 39:21

But this one's still recording?

SPEAKER_00 39:22

It's still recording, but see the flashing?

SPEAKER_01 39:24

Yeah, I do.

SPEAKER_00 39:25

Um I'm sorry. No, you're good.

SPEAKER_01 39:27

So I don't know if that was helpful.

SPEAKER_00 39:29

No, it was very helpful. But when when you were talking, one of the things that um helped me in in I don't even remember when this was, a couple, maybe two years ago. It was, I don't remember what book it was from or who it was from, but it was every day when you do your schedule, yeah, design like the your idea of a perfect day.

SPEAKER_01 39:53

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 39:53

So whatever that is, like that includes work, it could include workout, meditation, and you do it like minute by minute or block by block. It's like, okay, I'm gonna wake up at six. Um till 6:30, I'm gonna have a cup of coffee, then I'm gonna sit and read 10 pages, then I'm gonna from from 10 to 10.15, I'm gonna meditate, like whatever that perfect day is for you, and then try and do that.

SPEAKER_01 40:16

Yeah. And I should send you my chart. I have that. Do you have a chart?

SPEAKER_00 40:21

I don't think so. Because that like was like, okay, what is my perfect day? It could be like spending 10 minutes with the goats, like well, that's what I mean. Yeah, like that, and you're that type of self-action. And I've been doing like we lost the camera. Um, but I can move that one to the middle. And why don't I do that first?

SPEAKER_01 40:37

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 40:38

I don't know why the time is supposed to have an hour time frame. This one only has 30 minutes. It's an old camera. This one's got like three hours. I just gotta get another one of these. Um we'll just go to this frame for the last whatever. However, we've been going 40 minutes already.

SPEAKER_01 40:58

It's like such a fast, it feels fast.

SPEAKER_00 41:02

Yeah, it's battery power. Um just black out of pain screen. Oh, that's it. Slow out as we go a little bit further. We're fine there. Just don't lean back. Don't lean back? Yeah, you can lean in, but not back. I won't do, I won't move. The chart of self-actualization. So the yeah, so that I mean that helped me a lot. It's like, okay, what is my perfect day look like?

SPEAKER_02 41:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:34

And I don't know, it helped a lot because it's like that goes back to the no regrets we could go. Right. It's like, what do I what do I want to do? What's going to make me me happy in almost a very selfish way?

SPEAKER_01 41:47

Yes. Well, you know, um, the other day you had posted a video of uh you and your mom. You I think you were like trying to test her to see if she could turn the car on. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The the fiat.

SPEAKER_00 41:59

Yeah, this little fiat, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:01

And she was having a hard time, and you were, you know, it was it was so sweet. Yeah. And the sweetest part was Lorenzo was in the window smiling, and none of you were making fun of her. It was like you were in a collective, silly moment together. And I really admired it. And the other day I had a text with your mom, and she brought up about Mother's Day and everything. And I said to her, first of all, for me, Mother's Day is every day that I'm living is a Mother's Day. I really don't like these holidays. I think I hate the holidays.

SPEAKER_00 42:34

No, me too. It's like it's for it's almost like a forced acceptance, or like I hate I hate all the harm off holidays. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:42

To say you're amazing. I mean, so amazing every day.

SPEAKER_00 42:46

So but um And you should be loved and cared for every day.

SPEAKER_01 42:51

I I'm not so my ego doesn't need that day. So um I said to your mom that comment, you know, about the holiday, and then I said, Look, I got to bear witness to your you and Tim and Lorenzo, and there was so much joy, there was so much love. It was beautiful, and that was a beautiful Mother's Day for you, right there. It was a beautiful moment. A mother, grandmother, and pseudo-mother, it's like you're the mother of all the kids, even though you're the grandmother for some. And that should have been a day where you said, I am enough as a mother. I did enough. I'm a wonderful person, you know, like a self-actualization without regrets.

SPEAKER_00 43:34

That was one of the things we talked about too, is like, how how do you turn those regrets with Gabriella into power? Well, like, like what do you like like yeah, like what do you like this sharing? But like, what do you want to do with Sophia and the other grandkids? Right. Like what would are you gonna regret not doing something with them? So let's turn that into action. And one of the things that we talked about is she did uh, she used to do like a every kid gets a gift card for a one time alone, like doing with Grammy. So I was like, get back into doing that.

SPEAKER_01 44:05

Like did she stop doing that?

SPEAKER_00 44:07

She yeah, but not like um because she wanted to stop. You know, life happens and like you almost have to be proactive and and push yourself to do the things you want to do. Because you can get so busy where you get in these cycles where you don't do anything you want to do. Yeah. You're just going through life. So it's like you have to proactively do the things you want to do and that make you happy.

SPEAKER_01 44:28

Yeah. But that's but that's part of it. You know, I think it's it's a dance between um refraining from self-disparagement and this magical thinking we talked about the other week like if I did this, it would have been like this. If I you know um we I I think we all do what we do for reasons that make sense to us in those moments and we have to accept them fullheartedly radical acceptance and be okay with the reason why we didn't visit the daughter or we gave tough love that day or we overindulged with them because we were feeling you know we needed to compensate for lost time. It happens all the time every day you need to accept it but you also have to live your life and you have to move move on I mean not move on forget about Gabriella not move on meaning never feel sadness never feel longing for your baby and everything. But what are you going to do? It's a choice you're going to be a shell and you're not going to be there for your living kids and you're not going to be there for your living grandkids and you're not going to have a day of laughter you're not going to do anything anymore.

SPEAKER_00 45:33

Yeah I mean that's why I said you got to turn it into power. It's like okay this happened how can I learn from it it's like um there was this quote it was like life doesn't happen to me it happens for me. So as like bad as this situation is how can you use it to make your life better and become a better person.

SPEAKER_01 45:52

Right. And I mean what is this is it like a Star Wars quote with great suffering comes great knowledge or whatever the heck exactly some I don't know if it's Star Wars but yeah some similar quote yeah you know and um without the cliches it's sort of like I mean we none of us want to have pain and suffering but I think it's a requirement though. I think it is in order to know more and to be more awake in your life maybe that's what I thought of when you get to be 80 you don't give a crap anymore because you're like I've suffered I suffered enough I've been through everything there's nothing more yeah like I don't need to worry um and torment myself about these things.

SPEAKER_00 46:35

Even when my my grandfather passed he was always like I'm ready to go he's like I've I've done enough I've seen enough I'm tired like I'm just ready.

SPEAKER_01 46:43

Yeah you know I um I there's two my grand my uncle I had an uncle who I was very close with he died suddenly and my grandmother was like that kind of woman who she cried and she buried him and she got up and she just went she was like the strongest vision I could have seen you know involved politically in town she had friends she was in our lives she was active um I couldn't believe it. There was a woman at once I was at an event um for a holiday and in this situation the woman who hosts the event she makes everyone go around and say say take on a good date or like say an experience and she got up and she said I'm here everyone my son died last week and I just want to say how grateful I am to be in the room with everybody here and every person was like what you know I I was trying not to cry everyone around her was trying not to cry she wasn't crying and she said don't cry it's my choice it's my choice to live I it won't bring him back if I stay at home by myself it won't bring him back if I beat myself up over it or say I could have done this I should have done that um he's not here but I am and I have to get up and it's my choice today to be here. I'm so glad to be here you know we were all yeah it's like a strong strong very powerful person. Yeah and it's hard to be that person that is a struggle to be that person but you if you want to deal with surviving these deaths and all this stuff um it is your choice it's your choice in every way to consume all of the negative to hate yourself for what you did or didn't do.

SPEAKER_00 48:34

So I listened to something today I don't know how true any of this stuff is with the internet but it was like um your energy um your thoughts it's like um it takes 16 seconds for someone to feel like your energy what do you mean to match it or to feel it and maybe be attracted to it.

SPEAKER_01 48:55

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 48:55

So if you're in like a positive mood or you're positive thinking someone whoever you're conversating with or Neil can feel that negative too. Same idea negative energy someone could feel that like within 16 seconds. So the guy was talking about going on 16 second loops and once you get in through a couple like positive loops within yourselves it builds momentum.

SPEAKER_02 49:15

Sure.

SPEAKER_00 49:16

And I think for me I feel that way negatively also it's like if I have negative thoughts the more I have them the more they come.

SPEAKER_01 49:26

Yeah but you know there's like uh it in some therapy therapists use like thought stopping it's so primitive you just say like stop thinking that you know you just interrupt yourself and you say enough that's enough um and you move on.

SPEAKER_00 49:42

But how do you change like you need to change that to a positive thought.

SPEAKER_01 49:46

Well well here okay so here's and I said this to you last time I'm not missing positivity. So it's not in in my the way I you know I feel like I'm trying to cover my ass and say like this is only my own perspective don't everyone likes things different ways everyone uses different techniques.

SPEAKER_00 50:04

Like a technique that works for me might not work for you.

SPEAKER_01 50:06

Like I'm not gonna sit and meditate and breathe that's gonna make me more nuts. That's not recipe for more nuts for me. I because I love cognitive behavioral therapy um because I am more I I'm emotional but I like concrete I'm very like you know obsessed with words and how you have to be truthful and direct. And um it's not about having something positive. It's about having something factual and realistic instead you know like saying to myself I'm disgusting because I in three months I couldn't lose 500 pounds like that 600 pound person did is not true. It's like I um I can walk up the stairs without losing my breath I can carry my kids and the groceries and my cup of coffee and and do all this stuff and my body is strong and it it helps me. It works for me. You know that's what counts not like I like I said to you about my client if he were to say I'm a great dad and I am um a great husband and I'm not an alcoholic it would be like well you are an alcoholic and your wife locks the doors on you and your kids are afraid of you because sometimes you come home belligerent and you don't just say a positive you have to find reality. And that goes part in parcel with the whole issue with the internet we don't know anymore. Yeah what's real, what's not real you are the beholder of reality in with your eyes and with your brain here in this tangible world you have to find the truth for yourself and a truth that is a little bit shared you know like if I say to Jen about you did Tim sweep up the floor four times for the dogs before you came home from work. I need to do it again you saw I saw I saw no no it looked good to me from a quick look but she will say yes he did. He he thought about me he knows it bothers me he swept the floor maybe it's again not to the level I like I'll deal with my own aggravation but I have a husband who paid attention to what is good for me when I come home from a work trip and he took care of it and that makes him attentive kind loving supportive it's not an opinion it's not a positive thought it's just what you did.

SPEAKER_00 52:29

Yeah. Do you know the levels of um mindset?

SPEAKER_01 52:32

What do you mean? I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 52:33

So it's like a hierarchy similar to Mavlov's like a pyramid I mean or you could go level one through five.

SPEAKER_01 52:39

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 52:40

So the lowest level being a victim. Oh okay um second level being the pessimist okay third level is the optimist fourth level is the realist okay that's me the fifth level is a uh curious competitor that's not me so it's curious like you're inquisitive and you're always looking you're always looking for ways to improve so like you were saying the optimist you think oh I'm optimist but that's not really you're not really there yet. Yeah and um I think this was a study based off prisoners of war. Like who died first. Yeah and the um well the victim but the pessimist they died first yeah then the optimist of course then the realist so like we're here we're in prison we don't know when it's gonna end and um so on and so forth. The curious competitor came in for me from the fitness world it's like I need I'm I'm not quite good at this yet I can take constructive criticism I could take feedback but I'm always trying to prove and get better. Yeah um so it's like kind of all of them combined leading into that top one. What you just said about the being real and truthful made me think about um questions is this true is this absolutely positively 100% true and then what if the opposite was true? So like you're saying well I didn't lose this 500 pounds I'm a piece of crap.

SPEAKER_01 54:08

But I have to first have by the way let's for the record I don't have 500 pounds.

SPEAKER_00 54:11

No no I'm like but um but like when you're like or the husband that I'm a good husband okay is that true?

SPEAKER_01 54:18

Right.

SPEAKER_00 54:19

Is that absolutely positively 100% true?

SPEAKER_01 54:22

Yeah with with information from yeah what if it what if the opposite is true?

SPEAKER_00 54:27

What if I'm a bad husband? So it like kind of opens up the dialogue to allow you to think of what is the reality of the situation.

SPEAKER_01 54:34

Yeah but even in those ways and this is where I know I I always tell my clients oh I'm sorry I'm gonna be annoying now you know the concept of bad husband is what perception like I was you know barking down Zen's throat the other day because he left you know laundry right beside the laundry basket. He never hits me he never screams at me he never cheats on me he doesn't like take all of our family money and like you know go to the casino and gamble it all away I was reacting to him like bad bad boy you know what I mean it's it's my I created my own reality on whatever and so that concept for your mom to bad mother you know talk to the people amongst your family and you define like I said about um the collective versus the individual you define in your family what is bad what is good what is success what is you know um I remember hearing a group of guys we grew up with talking about another guy oh he's so successful that you see his Rolex. Yeah I was like he's so successful he's a drug addict he's the person who got him the the watch is a woman who's married to another person he's doing all sorts of stuff.

SPEAKER_00 55:56

Well and I think it's success is defined with your yourself though.

SPEAKER_01 56:01

Well but we also project an expectation from our society that they see well that then I think you have to be strong enough to put that to the side and look within and see what success is for you. Right and I think and that's hard. Yeah and ultimately all of this topic is about that I think to the people it matters the m most you your wife your kids you know your your sister your in-laws your parents you have to come up with your definition of success yeah of good success um did the right thing you know um self-actualization no regrets you know I mean uh they have to learn that stuff now and they have to learn with grief and goodbyes and all that everything in your way that you that you collectively understand um will support that I guess that that outcome um because you you don't need to think you are a bad brother because you didn't do this or you didn't do that with your sister. Your mom doesn't need to think she was a bad mother or you know any any Sophia doesn't need to think she was a bad daughter or because this one over here has a different experience. There's so many other variables that go into the whole thing all the time.

SPEAKER_00 57:26

I think we should probably end. Okay. But uh I just wanted to say one more thing and then we could end. I think that goes back into only focusing on the things that we have control of.

SPEAKER_01 57:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 57:39

And that's our attitude and basically our actions.

SPEAKER_01 57:43

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 57:44

Attitude and actions yeah yeah and and but you as a person who is in a sober state you're saying no I think anybody in general like what are the things that you have absolute control over yeah I think that's true your attitude and your actions and that's it yeah like that is it it's like how we respond to different things in different situations our response is our attitude interactions like we could respond negatively we could respond angrily but that's in our control but we can't control the actual thing that happens no no no you can um control the the what happens but not the the reac the the action but not the reaction yeah so yeah all right well thanks for coming on again um we need to do it again and um hopefully this camera's getting both of us and just one more time just reaching out to Shira if you guys need just have a conversation any help um Shirabersteintherapy dot com yep see we remembered a little bit genius and this time I'll tag it in the videos and and stuff um this will be episode 11 I I look forward to seeing okay we'll get to try and get it done a little faster than last time at a little bit of a lull all right thank you again for coming on you're welcome to have all these my technology technological issues I don't know yesterday I forgot to hit record on the the I didn't forget to hit record I never put the SD card in the uh the mics oh the mic oh my god how much did this cost sorry what the hell it's