Episode 07: Tim Jowers - Father-Son Van Builders

Tim Jowers quit a 25-year warehouse career in December 2021, bought a ProMaster, and started building vans out of his Texas driveway with his son Ryan. Twenty builds later, he’s still in that driveway — and still loving it.

Tim builds what he calls weekend warrior vans: complete, functional, and specifically without showers. In this episode he walks through why — the condensation issues, drainage problems, and cost math that make showers a non-starter. He also covers why cabinet work is the part that humbles every builder.

Tim’s rattle prevention method, his advice for first-time builders (rent a van before you build), and what it’s like to run a 20-build business out of a driveway with zero advertising.

Available on YouTube, Spotify, and Apple Podcasts.

www.vanlifeoutfitters.com

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

I've been in distribution and warehousing for past 25 years. And while I did enjoy it, I enjoy the I enjoy the people and I enjoy um that type of work. After COVID, it just became really difficult to get people to want to work, dragging people to work every day. Are you coming in? Are you gonna work? And and uh it just got really, really frustrating to the point where, like I said, I I just I just hated it.

SPEAKER_03 0:27

When Tim's son mentioned the idea that they build a van together, he thought it was a joke. But it was the middle of COVID and Tim absolutely hated his job. So he decided to take a leap, he quit his job, bought a van, and got to work. Welcome to FanLife Roadmap. I'm Jerem with FanLife Outfitters, and on this show we have real conversations with van lifers, pro builders, and DIYers who build their own vans, learn as they go, and hit the road to live life on their terms. Today we're sitting down with Tim. He spent decades in distribution and warehousing, but reached a point where the pace and pressure just didn't make sense anymore. When his son asked him, why are you going to a job you hate? It was just the spark he needed to kickstart his van life journey. Let's drop in on that conversation I had with Tim. Tim, thank you for joining us. Glad to have you on the podcast.

SPEAKER_02 1:24

Yeah, no problem, Jerem.

SPEAKER_03 1:26

Uh okay, let's get right into it. Why don't you tell me the story of how you got into van life?

SPEAKER_02 1:34

Well, so the the short story is I hated my job. Um, but um I've always been uh interested in van life. Even before we started building bands with my son, um, you know, I started watching Amon and Beck. Uh, they were the first people that got kind of got me into quote unquote looking at the at the van life, um, and just watching, you know, you know, their life and what it was like. And um it just kind of got me interested in that whole vagabond lifestyle, um, being able to come and go as you please, uh, but never really thought it was gonna be anything that would you know kind of mesh with my life because you know, got family, four kids, nine grandkids, and living in a vankids option. Yeah, congrats. So living in a van is not really an option. Um, so uh I was working in a job that really did not like, um, and this was shortly after COVID. Uh, and my son just said, you know, why are you going to a job that you hate? And you know, he threw out, let's let's build vans. And I was, you know, we you know, I thought it was a joke, and we we started watching some videos, and we just started throwing out some things, and I just I quit my job and went and bought a van. Um wow, okay. That's what got me in, that's what got us into into building vans and van life. Um, and that was in December of 21. Uh, we bought our first van. It was uh 2014 ProMaster with 110,000 miles on it, um, and we built it out. And initially we thought, you know what? Um he's a my son's big into mountain biking, and we both liked going up to northwest Arkansas to go mountain biking. We thought let's build it for uh mountain bikers, we'll take it out camping and do all this stuff. Never thought we would sell it, um, but um, you know, some of his friends and bikers saw it, and they thought, you know, that'd be really cool. I wish you could build me one. So um we thought, well, let's give it a go. Wow. Okay, so I want to ask. That was 20 vans ago.

SPEAKER_03 3:50

20. Okay, well, let's let's go uh let's um spend a little bit more time before the first one. So you hated your job, was it like corporate America kind of job uh in office and that kind of thing?

SPEAKER_02 4:02

Well, it was it was in a warehouse, but I was I was managing a distribution team. Okay. I I've been in distribution and warehousing for past 25 years. Um and while I did enjoy it, I enjoy the I enjoy the people and I enjoy um that type of work. After COVID, it just became really difficult to get people to want to work, uh, to want to, you know. Including Tim. Including Tim. A little bit, yeah. I mean, I've always got uh I want to be done with it. I've always had a I've always had a little bit of a you know a strong work ethic, and um, you know, it's always been kind of nine to five for me. Um, but uh just kind of dragging people to work every day. Are you coming in? Are you gonna work? And and uh it just got really, really frustrating to the point where, like I said, I I just I just hated it.

SPEAKER_03 4:57

So your son knew you hated it, and also he knew that you were interested in vans, that you've been watching videos and things like that. And uh and it sounded kind of like he said, let's do when he said let's build a van, I couldn't tell if that was for you guys to enjoy or if it was the start of a potential business.

SPEAKER_02 5:18

I think it was uh just kind of toe in the water, you know. Hey, let's see if we can do this. Okay, you know, if we can do this, can we really sell this? Because at the time, you know, that's 20 in 2021, um, you know, band life was really, at least you know, from my perspective, it was just kind of just on that kind of hockey stick curve up where um you know people were trying to, you know, they're coming out of COVID, they're wanting to get out. That was a great way to do it. Um there were builders out there, but there weren't, you know, there weren't a you know a lot. A lot of them were more still the the really big corporate builders and stuff. Um so it was more of you know, can we put together a product that A, we're proud of, and that B somebody would want to pay for? Um because you know, you know, you you see a lot of things and Instagram, you know, uh Instagram is it's great and it's horrible, right? Because you take the picture from just that right angle and it just looks perfect, and then you zoom in or you go around the other side, it's like, oh my gosh. Um, so you know, we'd seen a lot of pictures and videos of vans, and we thought, you know, I feel like we could do a better job than that, but without really knowing and getting in and doing the job, you don't really know you know how hard it is to finish that corner or get that seam really tight. Um so yeah, it was more of a just kind of toe in the water, let's see if we can do this, um and and see if there's any money to be made out of it. You know, because you know, we'd seen you know, the storyteller bands and the Mercedes sprinters that people are selling for a quarter million dollars, and we're thinking, you know, that's we're not interested in that. I mean, that's that's you know, that's that's a different world out there. But we were wondering, you know, can we find kind of this area that's an affordable functional van uh that we can do? And is there money in it?

SPEAKER_03 7:21

Okay. So all right, so it was a test, it was an experiment. A little bit uh to build a van, you were already interested in vans. Uh so let's build one um kind of half for ourselves and half to see if it could become a business.

SPEAKER_02 7:37

Yep. Worst case scenario, we've got a van to cruise around in and go take a look at the case.

SPEAKER_03 7:41

Yeah, worst case, you're still going to northwest uh uh Arkansas. Yeah. Um okay, so uh why did you think you could build a van? Where either of you have construction experience, electrical experience?

SPEAKER_02 7:56

So uh, you know, before I was in distribution and warehousing, I did build houses. Um I built five houses and one long house. Um I've had I've had you know experience in construction. Um never all the trades that are required in a van. Um, but definitely have had experience doing it. And my son, he's a welder, he's very artistic. Um, so we figure between the two of us, uh, we've got skills, we've got some tools, um, and you know fairly intelligent. Let's figure this out.

SPEAKER_03 8:35

Let's figure it out. That is the DIY mantra. Uh I love it. So uh where did you build it?

SPEAKER_02 8:43

So we built it entirely in our driveway. Um which ironically is is still the way I'm building vans. Um today, 20 vans later. 20 vans later. I intend to build a shop it someday, um, but right now it works. So I have no intention of changing that just because. But yeah, we built it in our driveway. So, you know, had to set up the shop every morning, bring out the tables, the saws, and everything, and a little pop-up tent, you know, and we would build the garage and then tear everything down at the end, put it back away.

SPEAKER_03 9:21

So um uh luckily you're in uh northern Texas, so yes northern Michigan would be worse. Um it would be tough. So you're built you're building this van, and you said uh it was late 2021 when you started?

SPEAKER_02 9:36

Yeah, December 2021.

SPEAKER_03 9:37

And how long did that first build take?

SPEAKER_02 9:41

It took a little bit over two months time to build. Oh, that's it. Um yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:48

That seems fast for a first DIY build.

SPEAKER_02 9:52

Yeah, and it was, I mean, it had everything you you know, everything that we still put in vans today. It had um, you know, it still had the fans and all the electrics, obviously quite a bit more rudimentary than the way we built now. We've uh learned a lot since then. Um, and even some of some of the um some of the the equipment and some of the um things that we put in vans now have obviously um you know they've improved too. Uh but yeah, so it was it was right at about two months. Um and I took it. Well, my goal was uh I wanted to take it to Seattle, uh, because I uh you know my mom was in a home up there, they wouldn't let anybody see her unless you you know uh you know COVID rules. Oh so anyway, I would I told them I said my goal is I'm gonna take it up there, then I'm gonna take it uh go skiing, and then I'd come back down through California to you know kind of proof of concept on the van. Nice. And I did that in January, did a 5,000 mile road trip with it, you know, went up to Bachelor, went skiing, you know, and then back down through California and the greatest. Was that just you? Yeah, I just went by myself, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 11:03

And so you quit your job before you built the first van, right? So it was full time for you. Was it full-time for your son, also the two of you full time? Yeah. Okay, that makes more sense why it was a lot of DIYs are doing uh evenings at weekends.

SPEAKER_02 11:17

Yeah, weekends and yeah, yeah. So we did we uh in you know, honestly, uh it wasn't eight hours a day, five, six days a week. It was um, you know, as we figure out, okay, this is the next step, let's order the stuff, wait for it to come in. So there's there are definitely some lag times in there, as I'm sure everybody knows, you you know, things aren't always available when you need them, so you have to order them, gotta ship them in. So yeah.

SPEAKER_03 11:43

So um you felt like um between his welding and your construction experience, you could and you got smart guys, we can figure it out. What was the hardest part if you think about doing your first DIY van?

SPEAKER_01 11:59

Every part. Yeah, it was was it harder than you thought?

SPEAKER_02 12:03

No, it was it was harder than we thought, and then oddly easier than we thought, because you know, uh as I'm sure a lot of people do when they're hearing stuff, you know, YouTube is you know the crate fixer for everything. So we would watch YouTube videos at night, ad nauseum. Here's how to put in a Max fan, here's how to and everybody's got a different idea, and they're all 14 minutes long so that you can you know get all the algorithms right. So you have to watch a lot of talk for you know a two-minute process. You know, so we would we would literally get locked up on oh my god, we're gonna drill a hole in the van. And then by the time we're done, we're like, that was nothing. You know, so everything seemed really, really difficult, and it was. It's it is intimidating at first when you're cutting a hole in a brand new van or used van. Um you know, if you cut it too big, obviously you're in bad shape. But um, yeah, it's just it's just really easy to get locked up on things, and then most things are pretty um pretty straightforward and self-explanatory. Um there's obviously things that you can get in trouble with. Um, but you know, if you do a little bit of research, it's it's really not as hard as it is.

SPEAKER_03 13:20

So yeah, so the first van artist.

SPEAKER_02 13:23

Sorry, go ahead. No, I just it just everything was very difficult at first because we were just um the internet, while it's a great resource, it's a bad resource because you can get too much information and you find out that oh, this window has an outline in the van already. You don't need to do all this templating and all this other stuff that people do to make it seem like it's a lot harder than it is so that they can make their 14-minute video. We've we've come to find out that a lot of you know, a lot of things were two-minute jobs that we would watch hours of videos for.

SPEAKER_03 14:00

Um okay, so you said it was harder than you thought and easier. So that that part sounds like um it's easier than you thought. What was one thing that was a tr as hard as you expected or harder? If anything.

SPEAKER_02 14:15

Yeah, so well, the cabinet building is always and still is the hardest part for me. Okay, how come? Um because um the van is an imperfect world. Nothing is square in a van. Uh in a house, you know, if you've done your framing correctly, um everything else is uh pretty simple because everything's gonna be square. Uh but in a van, um very little and I'm I might even be comfortable saying nothing is square. Uh so when you're building an upper cabinet, you know, you've got to deal with a slight curvature in the roof and then a slight curvature in the upper wall. So there's a lot of templating that goes that yeah on there. And you know, like I said, we've done 20 of these. Uh they're not all exactly the same because you may have cut, you know, you may have cut a uh a backing board a little bit shorter on this one, so you've got a little bit different angle now. So there's a lot of scribing, there's a lot of in and out of the van. Uh, so it's a great leg workout. Uh but cabots are always the most difficult. And then for me, it's making sure that uh, you know, all right, now you've got a great fit, you know, you gotta make sure it's securely mounted, right? You've got enough backing in the ceiling and on the walls so that you've got real solid uh screw points to get into. Um so it's just a lot of that learning over time, you know, we've learned what's the better way to do it. I don't want to say the best, but for us the better way to do it. Um yeah, cabinets are always tough.

SPEAKER_03 16:00

So you mentioned um that you you had some tools. Uh what was your favorite tool um or the maybe the most important tool to you during that first build?

SPEAKER_02 16:14

The favorite tool is the pocket hole jig. You know, we use that and we use it extensively because you know, we use it for building cabinets, we use it for um a lot of this the substructure for um you know putting slats in the wall and tying everything together. So um I think it's it may be one of the most invaluable tools that we have, along with a good scribing tool. You'll use you'll use both of those. Craig and scribing. Yeah. And then the thing, the thing more recently that we've used um is uh is uh it's it's the craig tracksaw. Um it's just yeah, it's really, really nice for making super clean cuts and plywood, super straight, doesn't rip out the edges and stuff. So um that's both of those tools are I mean, with those two you can do a lot of stuff.

SPEAKER_03 17:14

So you built your first van, it was harder and easier than you expected. You went on a 5,000-mile road trip. Uh, did you guys did did you end up going to Northwest Arkansas for a Mountain trip?

SPEAKER_02 17:29

Yeah, yeah, we did, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 17:30

And what were the reactions to to your van as you traveled around and saw different people?

SPEAKER_02 17:37

You know, it was it's really cool, and it's and it's still I still love it today. Um, but you know, back then there was still, you know, they're still like unicorns, right? Everybody's um there still was quote unquote the stealth um to the white van. Uh now it seems there's so many of them out there, everybody knows, oh, that's not a work van, that's a camper van. But you know, it was just really cool when you'd open the door and you know, your mountain bikes, your mountain bikes are in there, and your bed's in there, and your you know, everything's in there. And it was just it was just kind of this really cool, you know, wow factor. Um, you know, and and a lot of his buddies just they they just really thought it was really cool to be able to have that ability to, you know, instead of going get an Airbnb or tent camping or something like that, you know, you're right at the trailhead, you know, open your back door, you can go riding right away. So yeah, this it's pretty cool. It still is cool.

SPEAKER_03 18:33

And so you said that this was an experiment. Like can we can we uh actually build one? And if we can build one, can we do it at the right quality and cost to make it a business? How when did you realize that it could become a business?

SPEAKER_02 18:51

Um it probably wasn't necessarily that band because we didn't make a lot of money on that band. And that was it was partly because Oh, you did end up selling it. Yeah, we did end up selling to Miguel up in Colorado. He trusted us. I appreciate you, Miguel, if you're watching this. First guy. First guy. But yeah, we didn't make a ton of money on that one, so we weren't sure that we made the right choice. Um, but part of quitting your job. Yeah. And whether you can make money doing it, because um, you know, we sat on it for a little while. I think we didn't sell it till like uh end of March. So we sat on it for a couple months, and we just were like, you know, we didn't really do anything in between, so it was like, you know, what are we doing here? Um but we had a fair amount of interest in that van to where when we sold it, we were able to turn that into another sale because the person that another person wanted it, and we said, well, we can build you something similar, but what you want. Um and that's what really kind of got the ball rolling. The second van is what kind of got us, I want to say got us our name, but it we had enough people that were interested in the first van that it got us our next two or three builds.

SPEAKER_03 20:09

And you had a customer pool, a pool of customers.

SPEAKER_02 20:12

Yeah, and then from there it's just been you know, like I said, we don't do any advertising. It's just, you know, we sell it on Facebook or Instagram or a couple of the van sales places. So it's just people that see us. And um, you know, if the timing's right, the timing's right, and we'll build them a van.

SPEAKER_03 20:34

How was your second van better than your first?

SPEAKER_02 20:38

Well, we learned a lot on the first van, obviously. Uh the second van uh just from a from a uh build process standpoint was much smoother. Um you know the first van, you know, you can kind of have an idea of the way things are supposed to go from you know, we need to do you know, flooring and insulation and wiring, and then we can do this and this and this, and then we can do this and this and this. And um, you know, at least for us, there's you know, a step process now that we do. And you know, we don't button up this part until we're completely confident that everything is working behind that. Um so from the standpoint of the second build, uh, we learned a lot on the first build. Like we were you know, we were putting up panels and then covering the panels after they were mounted to the wall. And doing that kind of stuff in a van, it's like there's there's no room to do that. So, you know, just common sense. Well, let's do this outside the van, then mount the panel when it's fully covered. You know, we've got whatever type of material we're gonna put on it. So just little things like that that you don't think about necessarily when you're in the process of build number one. Um so yeah, we just learn a lot more um things. about uh just what works better um we learned about you know how we work together better um like i said he's Ryan's very creative and I could just say you know I want a bench here are my directions build me something or my dimensions build me something and you know he would come back with us like that's perfect you know so it was more of a you know this is your skill set this is what I want you to do I'm gonna do wiring I'm gonna do insulation I'm gonna do plumbing that kind of stuff um you know you do all the you know artistic stuff so it was just you know a lot of that kind of learning curve and uh what's the name of your business the name is Camp 506 Vans and do you have customers uh all over the country we do we've got uh yeah we've got East Coast West Coast Texas um we've got uh anywhere Facebook is I guess yeah yeah it's um it's it's interesting yeah it's interesting that people um are comfortable doing so much business over the internet um it's not lost on me that uh people trust us to do this um and I do appreciate the fact that they do so well now you've got 20 20 uh vans under your under your belt what's your specialty what if you look across the the vans you've made and maybe especially the last five to ten uh what are some things that make it a camp 506 special so we don't um you know we consider our vans to be like a like a weekend warrior adventure van type deal um certainly if you wanted to you could live on one we do have uh we do have one customer that's living on uh a van that we built oh right um and um i encouraged her not to because it you know uh a a full-time van is a different beast right that's uh there's a lot of requirements that you have for that so um I think our sweet spot is um you know for sure easy weekender but you could go a couple of weeks if you wanted to um just depends on how how you want to camp but um I think they're uh a quality built um I don't want to say luxurious but they are very nice vans um they're super comfortable um and it's got everything that you need I mean when we sell a van we sell it complete with window covers um you know it's got full water system it's got solar it's got the generator um and it's got toilet facilities and you know if you wanted to you could reclass it as a as as a class B van.

SPEAKER_03 25:04

So um yeah it's just kind of it's kind of the spot we wanted to live in we we've specifically made the choice you know we don't do showers uh we spent a lot of time trying to keep water out of the van we don't feel like it's a smart thing to put water back into it um uh that's interesting that's just our opinion you mentioned uh you mentioned toilet facilities um do you have uh a sink at all is there any any water yeah yeah so there's um sink with running water it's got a 12 volt self-prime water pump um so you've got seven gallons of fresh seven gallons of gray um and they're on quick release jerrycans so that you can quickly swap them out uh and then we also have a toilet cubby with a toilet um you can have your choice of you know composting or dry flush or chemical or no um so it's just up to you so we build it with everything in there because we know everybody's different um I would me personally I would never go to the bathroom in my van but that's just me personally uh I feel like there's enough places that you can find to go to the restroom.

SPEAKER_02 26:12

Um so that's just you know that's just the way that we build it it um you know the no shower uh for us it's um like we said it it it it mitigates some of the condensation issues that are you know terrible in vans um and then it just cuts down on a lot of complexity and then obviously takes up a lot less room in your van which is a premium so uh if somebody really wanted a shower would you recommend uh an exterior shower in the back uh over an interior one yeah yeah that's all that will do I won't you know because um you know there's there's a lot of things about a shower a um now you want to put hot water in it right so because people are gonna take cold showers usually so now you need a um at least a a battery bank that's gonna be able to heat your water or you're gonna be have a problem um you need to be able to um drain the water out of the shower so now you need underslung tanks so now what do you do about freezing okay now you got a problem there um you know the shower pans are usually inch and a half so if you're not a perfectly level ground now your shower's not going to drain and or it's gonna leak out into the van. So it just creates a lot of problems that I don't want to deal with um because I don't want to deal with them. If you want to shower that bad yeah and it's something that you really need uh you know I'm happy to put you in touch with somebody that'll build a van with a shower.

SPEAKER_03 27:49

Um but it's now that you're 20 vans in if you could go back and give yourself some advice for that first van what's like one piece of advice that you really think a new DIYer would need to hear.

SPEAKER_02 28:06

For me personally it would be get a helmet because um I've got so many scars on my head. Wow I haven't heard that yet that's good advice I don't know if it's an age thing my son would just laugh at me because I I have my head on everything in a van. You need soft corners. Yeah soft corners are yeah one of those uh you know the football helmets that the that they put on the the soft football it's probably really just to be more patient because uh everything not you know not just in building a van but living in a van everything takes longer you know uh you may say oh I'm gonna I'm gonna build this cabin or I'm gonna I'm gonna um you know I'm gonna build this wall panel or whatever and you think oh that's a that's a couple hour deal and it's not it always takes longer um I'm not proud to say I've learned a few new words so I always you know from whom is your son a bad influence on you no I mean I just sometimes you make up words you you might you know might mesh a couple together so uh what do you think are some top things DIYers should absolutely focus on from day one get a helmet and then what else I think um you know what I tell a lot of people when they when they contact me first about building a van is um have you ever camped in a van or uh been in a van before uh so what I encourage people to do is if you've got a friend borrow it if you can rent one rent one uh and live in it for at minimum a weekend uh to find out what you absolutely need to have and what you can get away with not having that you thought you might need um and a lot of people the first thing that goes is a shower they'll say okay yeah I I get that uh you know if I'm only gonna be using this on weekends I can get by without a shower on a weekend or um you know they might think you know I I I really do need a toilet so I want to get a dry flush toilet so I'm gonna spend a little more money here. So just um really be realistic about what you need in a band because uh space is a premium obviously um and things are very expensive like uh people want air conditioners and they they think they want to go off grid and it's like okay uh you can do that but that's that's an expensive ad. You know the the price for an off-grid air conditioner with a battery bank starts minimum at a $5,000 that's on the cheap end. You know so if you're talking about I want to try and build my van for you know $20,000 and I'm gonna spend five grand just on my air conditioner you know that's maybe want to rethink that. And then now it takes up extra space because I need a bigger battery bank. It's extra weight to haul around it's all this there's all these um pros and cons about everything that you put in a van. So what do you think is a part of the build that people underestimate how difficult it will be but it's harder than they think yeah I mean it's d really the the the woodworking in a cabinet cabinetry is really the hardest thing because you know um building the floors easy putting in ceilings easy putting wall panels those are easy um you know those are fairly straightforward projects uh but once you start getting into cabinets and you know making sure that you've built a strong enough cabinet that can withstand bouncing down a road you know the twists and turns that are gonna happen in a van building that strong enough that's that's a hard thing to do and then you know uh making sure that you know we we're pretty proud that our vans are pretty solid and they don't make any noise um no noise that's a top at least at least when we when they leave now you know you could take them people like to take these things off road which I tell them I don't take my house off road so I don't I don't I don't you know encourage you to take this off-road I'm not saying that you can't but just be aware you've got you know these things are built largely out of wood um and they're gonna flex and stress and things are gonna happen um so just be realistic.

SPEAKER_03 32:54

I mean not not to mention you've got high center of gravity you don't really want to go four-wheeling in this thing so just be realistic about where you take it um I don't think my uh house off road might be the best quote so far yeah so um how would you encourage or what advice would you give somebody who's scared to start they they feel like you did they're watching videos they're interested in being a DIY builder but they they're just not sure they can do it uh what would you tell them I mean I don't want to I don't want to underplay what it takes to build a van because there's a lot there's a lot of you know if you think about it there's a lot of trades that you need to have you need to be a part mechanic you need to be a plumber you need to be an electrician you need to be a a builder you need to be a Finnish carpenter uh you need to be an upholstress wow paint you know so you need to be able to do all these things so um it you know anybody can do it um but uh if if your skill set is not in a certain area then it might be difficult to get the result that you're looking for right so um and that's you know that's where I think a lot of people fall short is that yeah I think I can you know I can do electrical work but can you do finish work to make it look good?

SPEAKER_02 34:20

Um so um those are some of the things that I think people kind of underestimate in the whole fan building process.

SPEAKER_03 34:28

Right. Great well uh Tim thanks for taking so much time with us.

SPEAKER_02 34:34

Is there any uh final parting advice that you would give to uh potential builders listening right now no I mean I think you know it's um I I love building bands um there are most definitely frustrating parts about it there's there's parts where you quote unquote lose your Christianity um uh but um the process is you know for for me um probably my favorite part of the van is when I put the floor in um so I've already got insulation in I've already got wiring wiring in and then we put the floor in and it's like okay I can see this is not a van anymore it's you know it's got a floor with vinyl and it's just those little steps of you know all right that looks pretty cool I did that um so I would just I would just say I would just encourage you just you know just just start you gotta start and it and once you start just just keep going and uh there's a lot of like I said there's a lot of different trades or a lot of steps to it um but every time you finish that little project that makes it look a little bit better a little bit more like a like a camper band pretty cool one uh one of my favorite quotes which I'm not very good at following but uh it's don't get ready get started and uh maybe that maybe that's how to do it and you and you'll figure it out along the way um I there's a lot of experts but I don't think there's a right there's a well there probably is a wrong way to do it but there's a lot of different ways that you can do it.

SPEAKER_03 36:19

So I mean don't uh yeah and you can't get you can't get stuck in Facebook fights or watching uh too many 14 minute videos uh for a two-minute exercise yeah uh Tim thank you for taking the time uh it's been a pleasure uh we happen to live near each other so I've I've been to your uh house and seen you at work and uh and I I love it so thanks for coming on the podcast I appreciate it yeah appreciate it finishing up another one right now kind of another week on it I'll swing by let's see it all right bye thanks for listening to FanLife Roadmap photos links and details from this episode are all up at Fanlifeoutfitters.com slash podcast and don't forget to subscribe share it with a friend and join us for the next episode I'm Jerem with FanLife Outfitters we'll see you out on the road