Episode 08: Troy Norton - NanaVans

What happens when a fine artist builds his first van from scratch — no tutorials, no research, just artistic instinct

and a pile of cardboard boxes?

Troy is the founder of Nanna Vans, a custom van build company based in DeLand, Florida, operating under his

design firm TR Designs. He came to van life not through YouTube or van life forums, but through years of ceramics,

large-scale environmental installations, and high-end residential and commercial design. His van — named Janet,

after his late grandmother — is both his proof of concept and a rolling portfolio that's helped him sign design

contracts off the back table. In this conversation, Troy breaks down how art school thinking changes everything

about the way you design and build.

www.vanlifeoutfitters.com

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

I think the one of the most unique ways that I approached the van in the beginning is as much as I was I said I was obsessed with school buses and sailboats and things like that, I wasn't so obsessed with van life in the sense that I was watching tons of videos and how-to and seeing a lot of the basic layout. So when I first went into the van life and trying to figure out what I wanted in my own van, I didn't have I didn't have any understanding of the way the way in which it should be done or the way in which this is how 80% of the field does it. I went into it completely blind and just trying to think of everything that I could possibly possibly think of. So like one of the things um was like I started building the entire thing out of cardboard boxes. But then as I built it out of cardboard boxes to get their proportions together, and also like I think I think not only where you put things is important, but where you don't put things is also important. Like the negative neck the concept of negative space in art is very important. It's not just these are all the things I need, and can I fit it into this space? You might be able to fit it all into that space, but you're gonna be eliminating the aesthetic feel of that space if you want every single thing in this small 45 to 80 square feet.

SPEAKER_01 1:11

Troy didn't come to vans through Van Life. He came through years of working as an artist and designer, thinking about how a space gets used over time. So when he built his first van, it became both a way to travel and a canvas. Welcome to Van Life Roadmap. I'm Jerem with Van Life Outfitters, and on this show we have real conversations with van lifers, pro builders, and DIYers who build their own vans, learn as they go, and hit the road to live life on their terms. Troy is a different kind of van builder because he's an artist first. And as an artist, he's uniquely focused on the intersection of aesthetics and how people actually use his designs in their daily lives. In this conversation, he shares how art, family, and utility shape the way he designs and builds. Now let's drop in on that conversation I had with Troy. Troy, welcome to Van Life Roadmap. Thanks for joining us today.

SPEAKER_00 2:08

Yeah, definitely. I've been looking forward to this for a while now, so I'm excited to be with you.

SPEAKER_01 2:12

Yeah, me too. I uh I'm relatively new to Van Life, the community. I met you uh as one of the first Van lifers I ever met back in March, uh not long after I joined Van Life Outfitters. And uh your van and your approach really stands out as unique, and I'm excited to get a chance to talk to you.

SPEAKER_00 2:32

Yeah, this is awesome.

SPEAKER_01 2:33

Why don't you let's start off by having you tell us about your journey to van life?

SPEAKER_00 2:38

So, yeah, so van life, I would say it probably starts off with uh just like my approach and everything like that. Is I did start off as an artist, so that's what I went to college for. Um I have a degree in fine art and business. Um I went there originally as a ceramic artist, did that for a couple years, then started transitioning into like larger scale uh environmental installations just because the ceramics was just like there's you can only go so big with ceramics, and there's a you know a little bit more of an approach when people walk into a gallery, you know, when when something's small and sitting on a table as opposed to kind of like dominating the space that it's in. Um I just really liked the angle from there, like expressing expressing myself through an art form that was more like all encompassing of the space itself. And um that was definitely how it that was how the artistic approach to like what I do with Van Life definitely started out in that realm.

SPEAKER_01 3:27

So you got a degree in art?

SPEAKER_00 3:29

Yes, yep. So I went uh funny story, I went to college originally as an economics major, just because I was kind of unsure of yeah, unsure of whether I wanted to actually like full-blown go into the artistic thing or not. Didn't want to be a struggling artist. Um, but then when I got into my freshman year, this was around the 2008 collapse. So I was like, I don't think these economists know what they're talking about anyway, so I'm gonna follow my passion. Um, but because I had started in the business degree, I ended up having enough credits to still finish with the degree in business as well. And I ended up doing, I think the minimum requirement should be call a college student's like 12 credit hours. I did an average of 24 to 28 credit hours per semester because I found that at Setz University, you don't have to pay for any additional classes. Once you're a full-time student, as long as you're maintaining your grades, they will let you take as many classes as humanly possible. So I took I took religious studies classes and uh you know every sort of business class I could take to help myself after I figured once I graduate with this art degree, I'm gonna have to learn how to make money at it. Um that was kind of that's basically how it started.

SPEAKER_01 4:35

Those I imagine that curiosity in your in your personality is gonna come up again and again. So definitely. Okay, so art and business, and uh uh you know, skipping ahead a little bit, you are in art and business still today. Um years later, so way to go. So okay, so one of the things you're worried about was being a starving artist. Um how did you deal how did you overcome that? How'd you pay the bills?

SPEAKER_00 5:03

I mean, yeah, not to get into sob store, but I grew up um, you know, I didn't grow up in the the wealthiest of families, so I think that was the approach of like not wanting to become the struggling artist, going into a realizing that I was kind of transitioning into doing something a little bit more risky when it comes to the arts, and I didn't want to be like one of those stereotypical liberal arts majors that graduated and didn't know what they were doing. Um so as soon as I graduated, I kind of tried to find a way to blend the business and the art with something that was a little bit more utilitarian, which is actually kind of where I ended up doing the vans as well. But originally it started off as um I started doing fences and decks, but like kind of more decorative fencing fences and decks, and then that turned into a design company. And then now as part of the design company, which is basically what I've been doing for the last 10 years or so, I do a lot of like residential and commercial work. So commercial work, I do a lot of uh restaurant design work, and then when it comes to the residential side, um that's where I do a lot of like I say I'd make Pinterest dreams come true for housewives. I don't know if that's politically correct, but that's uh that's really what I do. So I do a lot of custom bathrooms, a lot of custom kitchens, uh custom man caves, um, custom closets, things like that, but things that you would see more on Pinterest, not just like basic cabinets, things like that, using really organic materials. Sometimes I'm incorporating an old piece of furniture that they have, like a family heirloom. Sometimes it's a crazy idea where they want to do something just unique. So a lot of higher-end clientele that are in you know, nicer homes that kind of give you the freedom to use that artistic, you know, get that artistic outlet uh through, but at least apply it to a utilitarian thing, residential commercial work, so I can obviously pay the bills and avoid the struggling artist aspect of that.

SPEAKER_01 6:47

So um, do you want to say the name of your your design company?

SPEAKER_00 6:51

Yeah, it's TR. So TRN Designs is actually my umbrella company, and then Nanovans um is obviously my van company. That's under that's a DBA underneath TRN designs, not to get too complicated, but they all encompass within the same thing. Because at the end of the day, I just kind of consider myself a creator slash artist, but then in this world that we are, obviously, if you can gear you know the fine arts and things like that towards the utilitarian, then you can kind of make it work out for yourself when it comes to the business, which I must have picked that up in the business department of Stetson University. So I appreciate that.

SPEAKER_01 7:24

Okay, so you mentioned nanovans. How did you end up coming to Van Life?

SPEAKER_00 7:29

So Van Life, that's why I have uh such a unique um relationship with Peace Love and Vans, um, and you know, Van Life Outfurt is as well, just because you guys were actually, you know, before you were part of the company, it was it was actually the reason that Nanovans is a thing, because I I originally found out about Peace Love and Vans three years ago. Um it was you know, it was just kind of popped up on the radar last minute. I think it was about five weeks before the actual show was come up. I had no idea that I had I had already built Janet. Um and I had but I had not introduced it to anybody. I had not even put it really a picture on social media, I had documented the whole build out. My whole idea was to build this thing out, and then I'm gonna have a you know, all these the bank of all the photos and the time-lapse videos and everything, and then I'm gonna travel full time in my van while I post all these things and I'm gonna do the stereotypical social media thing came out. But that was at the end of uh 2019, so COVID had just hit right when I finished my van. Um but at so I had already finished my van, I had been doing the van life thing a little bit, but I had never got into the community, and I started having this idea that I could transition my design company into doing the vans, and I was still unsure of it. I still hadn't like pulled the trigger fully because my business was doing well. And I happened to message uh the guys from Peace Love and Van, and I just said, Hey, I would I know that you guys are you guys were actually sold out of even the camping ticket. So I wasn't even thinking about being an exhibitor in any way, shape, or form. I just figured, hey, this will be great, this will be an opportunity for me to maybe go into like the DIY thing. I can introduce my van to the community. Um so I messaged them, and when I messaged them, I I knew that you guys were booked out, that you guys didn't have any tickets available. So I embedded the pictures of my van of Janet into the email, so it kind of popped up when they opened, just figuring like, hey, I think it looks cool, maybe other people think it looks cool, maybe it gets me a spot, you know, in the in just the DIY aspect of it. And they actually emailed me back like the very next morning and said, We don't want you to be a camper, we would love for you to be, you know, an exhibitor for the actual show itself. Well, I agreed, but I did not I did not have a domain name, I did not own the actual name Nanavans, I didn't have a website built, I didn't have business cards, I didn't have t-shirts, I didn't have a banner. So within that four-week period of time, we literally got a tent, a banner, business cards, t-shirts. We designed the logo, I designed a website, um, you know, made it part of TRN design, so we had all the insurance and everything for the show. And that was actually what forced us to like officially launch Nanavans as an entity, you know, at the at our first Peace 11 vans.

SPEAKER_01 10:14

Okay. So I didn't I didn't realize that. So the founders of Van Life Outfitters, Josh and Zach, um shout out to those guys. Uh so they helped launch or or introduce uh yeah, they were the reasons, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:25

So hopefully, yeah, if this thing turns into a big thing, I'll definitely I'll have to give them a little bit of a kickback or something.

SPEAKER_01 10:31

Well, hey, we can cut that out so you don't have to. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's no legal requirements here. Um uh so let's let's go before nanovans a little bit. Why did you build a van? What what drew you to van life?

SPEAKER_00 10:46

So I had it it kind of goes back to college as well. So when I was when I was originally gonna go to college, it was between Stetson University and Flagler. And at the time I owned a small truck, and my I I had always just liked the idea of having a little bit more of a unique life. I didn't want to do the stereotypical thing. So my original plan before I got into Stetson and ended up making the decision because it was just better for the degree that I wanted at the time, I was gonna go to Flagler and I was gonna sell my truck and buy a sailboat, and I was gonna restore the sailboat, and I was gonna live on, you know, there's plenty of places that you can, you know, basically just dock a sailboat. And I'm gonna interrupt really quickly, just for the audience uh uh who might not know where do you live? I live in Delane, Florida. So Delane, Florida is like about 30 minutes west of Daytona, New Samurta Beach Air. So central central Florida, just north of the floor.

SPEAKER_01 11:38

So marine marine life is is a a good way to go.

SPEAKER_00 11:42

Yeah, yeah, marine life. It just seemed like a really interesting way of life at the point. I was like, that'd be I mean, I just pictured myself going through freshman sophomore year, living on a boat, you know, that that I that idea of living in a small I'd always been obsessed with you know, a lot of before van life, it was more school buses, it was sailboats, you know, it was just small, like tiny homes. The idea of like being able to just build a small little cabin. I was even as a kid, I was always building things in the woods and creating little forts and things like that. So I think that's more what it represented to me in the beginning. Um, and then the van life community, as as I started getting into my regular, you know, just life doing things business wise, the school bus and the sailboat idea kind of drifted away as as you know college came and went. But then after college came and went, that is where I started seeing this van life thing pop up all over the place. And it was basically all the aspects that I liked about the tiny living and the sailboat living was now in, you know, the idea was basically you could have like your everyday vehicle would also be your home with you. And then I also saw, you know, I started seeing people pop up and make a business out of it. And there's actually another they actually come to Peace Love and Vans as well. There's another builder who's from Deland, Florida as well. And um, I went over there and visited them, you know, in the beginning when I was first getting into everything. So it was just a community, it just I seemed like I really fit into it well just because of you know the nature of wanting to live in a tiny a tiny space when it came to college, and then this was another opportunity. Um and as soon as it was really just a financial thing. I didn't have I didn't have the money to get the van, so I I transitioned I transitioned my company up north for three years for the for the sole purpose of giving myself the money, because the money was better up there, for the sole purpose of saving the money to come back down to Florida to build my first van. And it was completely for myself, it wasn't for starting a business or anything like that. But because of just the nature of moving up north, saving up the money, coming back down here, I gave myself six full months and enough money to support myself for those six months, and truly threw myself into the first van project as it I also been separated from doing fine art for a couple years at this point, you know, running running my design company. I'm still doing design projects, but it's not fully 100% based on what I individually want. As an artist, I could always make my own decisions. I didn't have clientele. So this was the first time I was the clientele for this van. So when it came to the material, when it came to the way in which it was going to be done, it didn't matter if it took a little bit extra time, if it, if there was a learning curve to do something, instead of doing it incorrectly, I was willing to take the time and the effort to make sure that I taught myself exactly how it should be done, you know, do tests and make sure that it was just done. Because it was I have clinical OCD, so it has to be perfect the first time around. So if I didn't understand how to do something, I would do multiple test pieces to make sure that the final product did come out well, even if it was a technique that I didn't understand, if I maybe didn't have the appropriate tool for doing my first van build-out. Because I I built that first van build out with a lot of just like Ryobi, Ryobi tools, and I didn't I mean I was doing woodworking and things like that, but it's a totally different that was definitely the most fine, fine-tuned type of uh type of project that I did. And then even after I built my van, it really kind of took my design company to the next level as well, because now I'm basically traveling around with a proof of concept when it comes to anything design related. I was like, uh the way I look at it is I I'm driving around with my credibility. So it's like you can have a conversation a lot about the things that you've done and they might sound cool, but if you don't have a visual, especially a visual that someone can get up into and walk around, I joke with people all the time now because I've I've signed so many contracts on the back table of my van, not for van life, but for you know, for other projects, just because it's you open that van up and it's like I said, it's proof of concept. It's all the things that you were talking about, they can actually see it right there, you know, in front of them.

SPEAKER_01 15:42

So it's we'll get some pictures and include some for for our YouTube viewers, but uh uh you're you're not overselling it to say that it is beautiful and unique. I mean it your your van stands out. It it definitely does. Okay, so nanovans, tell us about the origin of that name.

SPEAKER_00 15:59

Yeah, so that's that's a super special part of uh so it's the company's called Nanavans, and then my actual first build out, which is actually the proof of concept that we'll put some pictures in here. The name of that uh particular build is named Janet, and both were named after my my grandmother, who was you know one of the most special people in my life, Janet. Nana Janet, Janet Ritchie. So um she was she was just an inspiration to us all while she was alive. She owned a production company, she was a go-getter, she was like one of those personality types, and you walk in a room. Um her and I had a very, very close relationship, even towards the end of her life, you know, kind of stereotypical position, you start to lose your mind, and you don't really know a lot of people, but even to the very end, she would always ask for my boy, which is was me. She always remembered me to the end. Her and I had like the deepest, deepest connection. My mother's company right now is uh Guardian Angels, and that's actually after my grandmother's well. So that shows you how special of a person that she was. So the van bill itself actually became kind of an homage to her and my grandfather when he passed away. So I have the prayer flags in my in my van are made of like my grandfather's t-shirts, and the front of my window is hanging a charm. Each one of those charms has like my grandmother's ashes, my aunt's ashes, my grandfather's ashes. Um there's like different at every corner of the van, there's like an aspect of like whether it's a bracelet or a charm, or just little things throughout the van that are kind of an homage to that that generation. Because I just think that I've I learned so much from the generations that came before me. Um even when I we go to these van life events, we all think that we're doing van life for the first time, and then you know, some old guy will show you a video of him in the 60s and 70s showing you that you weren't the first one to do this. So I I think it's kind of an homage to what came before, transitioning into what's now, and this is kind of the modern version of it. But you know, continuing to look back on those people that inspired us to be who we are now, and and she was just one of the most incredible people. So I definitely want to give her a shout out through the name of my company and the first one. And then the plan is that as we build them out for other people, you know, if you have a grandparent or you have a particular person, everyone, everyone I think every van build deserves a name. So through the process of, you know, learning more about those the person that I'm doing the van build for, you know, I'm kind of hoping that we'll come to a conclusion. It doesn't have to be a grandmother, it doesn't have to be a nana. But um, you know, that's kind of the that's the the story behind the name. So some people get confused by the nana vans, but I just it's so much of uh an homage to her, I love it, but I love I love the way what we did with the logo and kind of m mesh in the new with the old.

SPEAKER_01 18:35

Sounds like the idea for a business and a van. It's almost like your college, it was art, uh it was art and economics like coming together again. Um what did you want to do with it other than um use it for your business or um uh uh you know as a proof of concept? How about living in it?

SPEAKER_00 18:57

Yeah, real like I said, originally originally I actually didn't do it for a business point of view at all. So it really was just like building something that I wanted to travel around and what worked for so and it was nice too because I had to ask all ask myself all the questions that I now will have to ask clientele. Because it was like when I first buy in the van, I'd be like, well, what what kind of van do I want? What am I gonna use this van for? What features do I need in the van? What electronics do I need in the van? How does all this stuff work in conjunction with each other? You know, what's the best way to do things? Obviously, keeping in mind that this is not something that's gonna be stagnant either, so it's not foundationally connected to the ground like a house or things that I traditionally deal with. This thing is gonna be moving constantly, you know, especially on the road, those vibrations are so that it's like totally has to be designed totally different. So um, so yeah, I mean, giving myself the ability to have that van, knowing that hey, once I build this van, for me it was just I want the ability to go anywhere at any time. And if I want to go to California, I want to go to Massachusetts, I want to go on a weekend trip to a springs, whatever I want to do. And I actually made it, and again, for financial reasons, it was uh it was my daily driver as well. So I also needed to design this van so I could continue doing my design projects at the time. So I I can fit full sheets of plywood in my van. I can still, I mean, I still made areas so I can put my chop saw and my table saw. So it was like it was very much for me, it was not only you know deciding upon the van of what I wanted in it, but then exactly how it was going to be used, not only for van life, but then outside of van life as well, because it was my daily driver. So making sure that it was comfortable when I went on the van, you know, when I went out in the van and we're traveling around through the Carolinas or Tennessee or something like that, that feels like truly a a van life type of van. But then if I get back on Monday morning I have to go do a job, I can still pick up materials and uh and do what I need in it.

SPEAKER_01 20:54

So it's uh utilitarian art, like you talked about before.

SPEAKER_00 20:58

Yeah, and that's yeah, and that's what I and it's so funny because a lot of the art that I did originally was completely it was the it was in opposition to utilitarianism. So it was interesting that you know all the things that I do now are very much utilitarian, you know, just because I think that's the economics of it, so blends in that as well. Because the economics of if it's utilitarian, it's useful for people and people will, you know, obviously seek you up.

SPEAKER_01 21:22

Yeah, let's talk about your approach. Um uh uh you've already hinted at a lot of this, but but crystallize it for us. What what how do you approach building a van?

SPEAKER_00 21:34

So I think the more I thought the more I thought about, I think the one of the most unique ways that I approached the van in the beginning is as much as I was I said I was obsessed with school buses and sailboats and things like that, I wasn't so obsessed with van life in the sense that I was watching tons of videos and how to and seeing a lot of the basic layout. So when I first went into the van life and trying to figure out what I wanted in my own van, I didn't have I didn't have any understanding of the way the way in which it should be done or the way in which this is how eighty percent of the field does it. I went into it completely blind and just trying to think of everything that I could possibly possibly think of. So like one of the things um was like I started building the entire thing out of cardboard boxes. But then as I built it out of cardboard boxes to get their proportions together and also like I think I think not only where you put things is important but where you don't put things is also important. Like the negative neck the concept of negative space in art is very important. It's not just these are all the things I need and can I fit it into this space. You might be able to fit it all into that space but you're going to be eliminating the aesthetic feel of that space if you want every single thing in this small 45 to 80 square feet. So that was that was defin that was a major a major approach to to how I did things. So going back to the cardboard boxes it was I started building out of cardboard boxes, seeing the proportions seeing where the negative space I could start to actually visualize what the end product was going to look like even though it was out of cardboard boxes. That was when I also started realizing that when you sit down so even like some of the furniture I I designed some furniture from a design company and whenever I design a a chair and a desk for instance for somebody I'll always have them sit down and I'll measure their hip to floor ratio I'll measure their knee to floor ratio and I'll make sure that I understand where they're comfortable because sometimes you go into a you know I've talked about it before you sometimes you go into a restaurant and you sit down at a table and the table seems too high or too low so you feel like a kid or you feel like a giant or you feel like you're a small per and it doesn't it doesn't matter what your height is. Sometimes it really is just those ratios and however that particular furniture designer put everything together. So when you're sitting in a custom space one of the things when I built it out of cardboard boxes is I started adjusting the height of the the end height of the table and the end height of the the chairs and where you'd be sitting and and how far away they were to each other to make sure that all those ratios were comfortable. So when you sat down if this is going to be a truly custom build in my opinion it should be truly custom I was the clientele at that point of view so I measured all of my own ratios so now if you see me sitting down in my in my particular van for instance the whole thing is bench style seating so when I'm seated down in front of the sink for instance you can see it's just a c I'm not slouched over my you know I'm I'm in a good posture my knees are making my feet are making contact at the at the appropriate angle it's not too high it's not too low the distance between me and the table is comfortable so it's just I feel comfortable in there. And all those adjustments are super simple. I mean it's all everything's on the it's on the uh you know the chop saw the the table saw going I can I can adjust it by a couple inches no problem so that's not it's not even a cost effective thing. It's really just if you're building something that's very custom I think things like that are important. Another thing that I think was one of the most important aspects of my van is access to your electrical so all of the panels in my van for instance are all modular. So I can take all the walls of my van off which allows me to have access from the point source from the battery from the battery bank the DC to DC charger the fuse box um I have access to all of that but then I also have access all the way the pathways to the ending point of each one of these things. So especially when it comes to DC systems DC systems because of just the nature of it and the fact that they're in a van eventually you're going to have some sort of an electrical problem. And if you have an electrical problem and because of how the standard builds are done they they fur out the walls and they put big sheets of plywood over and that's after all the electrical is done. Well now if you have an electrical problem you're literally having to go through a solid sheet of plywood it's not like residential stuff I'm used to just being able to cut into drywall patch it. You can't do that in the van. So these were the things I was constantly thinking about while I was building my own again more for selfish reasons. If I decide I want to plug over here if I decide I want an additional switch you know maybe the USB connection burns out and I need to replace it it's it's super simple. In 15-20 minutes I can have all the walls of my van off I can repair insulation I can do things to the outside of my vehicle if I need it to bolt through it allows me to reconfigure things. So and I think that's a good feature for clientele as well because sometimes you don't fully understand what you need in a van build out until your first couple of trips and then all of a sudden you realize I want to switch over here I need a new light over here I want to have I want to add a Starlink system and I want you know a control panel to be set up next to my bed. Well you can do all that if you're if your panels are modular so I think like features like that are things that I almost feel like I came up with because I wasn't you know embedding myself with all the information of just this is the standard way you go about this is the standard equipment that you get this is the standard configuration. I kind of like the fact that I did the first build out just completely I almost felt like I was just on a deserted island somewhere and I didn't really have a lot of uh influence if that makes sense. Yeah uh having a chance to come at it from a new angle or with uh with uh new eyes uh makes a lot of sense especially for an artist uh you know you want to create your own way uh I think that a lot of that's really cool the the cardboard um idea I I've seen a lot of people um tape tape off but you do lose the 3D uh you know the actual you don't you don't actually feel the space uh yeah I think I think it was so I think it was so important especially if like when you walk through that because because once you're cutting things and you're doing things you're actually solid especially if you're a DIYer for instance once you cut something you've already spent the money on that material it's already the size that it is you just kind of start going with it. The boxes really allows you to just I mean you can expand and contract and and expand things and move things and adjust them slightly and it's just it's just a matter of cutting it with a pair of scissors and some duct tape and you know I mean I started off with the same thing. I started off with a floor plan on the floor to kind of make it make sense but then like you said it's you lose the three dimensional nature of okay what is this going to look like you know in a volume space what it what is it going to feel like walking through the am I going to constantly hit my hip on something that I didn't realize because I'm looking at it on the floor and not 36 inches off the floor going into my hip. And now you discover it the first time you cut it and it's already in there. I mean for me I was able to literally walk around the entire van build really feel what it was going to look like also get visual cues for instance when I look through my rear view mirror I can see out my back windows fully and completely and I designed my van you'll see you know in the pictures if if they're put in you'll see that there's like a the headboard to my bed for instance has a large curve cut out of it and that's strictly for visual so when I look in my rear view mirror I don't have any obstructions. So again when I'm driving the van and it's not van life or if I'm just driving around you know random areas in the country I don't have as many blind spots as some people would have in a van, you know, a van that large utilitarian art.

SPEAKER_01 29:18

Yep a hundred percent so uh coming from your unique vantage what do you think matters most?

SPEAKER_00 29:25

How something looks how it feels or how it's used I honestly and I I know this isn't like fully answering that question but I think my answer to that question is like it has to be all three. Because if you if you I think I think where you go wrong is when you focus on one thing too much. If you focus on the utilitarian nature of it too much you're gonna end up getting something that in my opinion feels very sterile. It feels like a hospital you know maybe even even the material selections yes that that material might last for 30 years and never degrade or anything like that. But what are you trading as far as the aesthetics like feeling comfortable in the space itself. So I think that even while I was doing the build out it was anytime I started thinking too utilitarian I would try to bring it back to the artistic approach. If I started getting too artsy with it to the point where it didn't really make sense util in a utilitarian fashion then I would kind of bring myself back. So I think I think blending those two things together is a is a is an extreme balance. Especially the material that you use that's one thing I tell people is you're dealing with such a small amount of square footage in my opinion I would you can you can start to kind of broaden the horizons as far as what materials you can bring into your van build because even if you cover the entire inside of the van in that particular material you're dealing with 50 to 80 square feet at most. So it's from a material point of view you're not dealing with a large quantity you're gonna spend a lot more money on the equipment the electronics the things that every van build is going to need. But when it comes to material the difference between getting like a pine tongue and groove as opposed to getting like a cedar tongue and groove that's going to you know aesthetically look a little bit better it's gonna be better against you know bugs and pests it's gonna smell a little bit better like even if you wanted to go teak I mean even though teak's extremely expensive you can you can start to play around with some other materials because you're not you're not trying to build an entire house where it's just below the budget. I mean even sometimes on eBay and and small you can find small quantities of really interesting material and it's enough to do whatever part of your build out that you needed because you just need such a small amount of it. Okay let's get to some lessons learned you you've uh learned a lot over your career and and building the van um what what do you think is a design a design decision that deserves uh more thought than people usually give it um I'm gonna it's it might be repeating myself a little bit more but I definitely think that that electrical under understanding your electrical system and knowing that you're gonna need access to live electrical systems. So I think when you're building out your van, even if it's not just electrics, I mean if it's not just electrical components, but having access to things, um making sure that you have access panels or some removable area that you can actually access the things that you're doing. Because a lot of the times you're doing it in stages and you're doing that whole first stage for instance the electrical in the beginning you're getting it all 100% done you're testing everything and then you're just covering it all up. I see that happen in so many different people's builds and a lot of the people that I know in the industry now for instance a lot of the people that do like just the full electrical systems and that's primarily what they do they end up having to like run wires on the outside. So now you have this beautiful van build with all the stuff but now you have these random 12 volt wires running all over the place because something burnt out or you know so I would I would just say access access to important areas making sure that you just put a little bit more thought like even for my max fan for instance I knew that I ran the line there there was a couple different things that I ran a secondary line tapped it and made note took pictures made sure I had access to that area. So God forbid the line itself burns out because I don't have access the one area of my van that I don't have full access to is inside the roof but I do put one inch conduit going across so I can have like pull lines. But the fan is in a precarious area for instance so when it where the fan was I made sure to put a secondary line there just knowing that if that ever burns out that's a very simplistic thing but you need that max fan to create circulation. So then you're talking about now I can go and look at reference that picture and it's a five minute project. If I didn't have that picture and I didn't have that forethought that didn't take much time I mean you're talking about a multiple week project of completely disassembling your roof.

SPEAKER_01 33:39

So yeah that's great that's great advice um one of our technical support um team members Clayton uh he built vans for years and um he always either does redundant or extra wiring um everywhere for the for similar reason. Oh 100% yeah okay so uh especially from your creative point of view um if a DIY builder only focused one on one thing to make their van feel more like a home and less like a box w what do you think that that one thing would be material I would go I would again I would go back to material.

SPEAKER_00 34:18

I think uh I think a lot of people end up making it some teak in there yeah get some teak really any anything any and everyone's material I mean for instance I love like if you when you see the inside of my van I love the cabin feel I I just I like my my happy place is envisioning myself out in a cabin in the woods in Tennessee you know with a fire going. So that's kind of the feel that I particularly wanted in my van. Sometimes I see a lot of these DIYers they're doing things in again in a simplistic way it's simple to cut a big sheet of plywood and put it up there and paint it white the problem is that your van build is going to end up feeling a lot more like a hospital than a home. And I think I like even lighting for instance like the spectrum of lighting a lot of people use because they're using the LEDs they'll think about using the LEDs for the energy factor but they're not thinking of the spectrum of light. So for instance when you're in a space at home like if you're in a workshop it's fine to have a white spectrum light you know what I mean but if you're if you're in a living space in my opinion especially at night you're gonna want a s you're gonna want a softer you're gonna want a you know more of like almost a yellow orangey light you know just a softer light as opposed to that really you know like a the type of lights that I have in my studio are totally different from the light spectrum that I have in my house for instance is completely different. So I think that's I think that's an important thing just to make sure the sterile feel I would stay stay away from making your van build feel too sterile. I think that's that's definitely a common thing that I get and I would say that's probably the one of the more unique parts of my build that other people come if they've seen some other builds and they come and see that build that's one of the first comments that I hear a lot of the time is like this this feels like a home it doesn't feel like a hospital bed or it doesn't feel like I'm going into hospice. You know it's it feels like you're actually going to live in this thing. So that was so do you I think that would be my recommendation.

SPEAKER_01 36:04

Do you think about building uh more for uh uh the home on wheels or for comfortable access to outdoors if that makes sense as a trade off is it more about living and hosting and inside or is it about having a comfortable place that gets you outside?

SPEAKER_00 36:25

I honestly I've especially from doing the Peace 11 van events and some of the other events around I think that is a total uh preference point because there are definitely some people out there that after you have a conversation with them I'm confused as to why they want to do van life because it doesn't seem like they want to be out in nature at all. They want everything in their you know they they kinda it's like the but it's like bougie like bougie camping. It's like it's if you want to do everything in your van that's that's a total that's that's one line of doing it 100%. But um like for me for instance I am I think I would gear myself more towards getting myself out into nature.

SPEAKER_01 36:58

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 36:59

So but I think that there are some people that are geared towards listen I like being out into nature but it's more I just want to live I just want to live in this vehicle maybe for financial reasons, for traveling reasons, for work. I mean everyone has a different preference point. So I think we all kind of stereotypically fall into a pattern of like thinking okay if you're into van life then you're automatically the granola type of dude who just wants to go out and rock climb and that's not every van lifer. You know that's not some van lifers just want to live a very comfortable home type of life but they just want to be able to skip around or visit family that's in another state multiple times a year. So it really like you really got to sit down, I think, not only decide that you want to do van life but what is like genuinely try to be honest with yourself about what that van life is going to look like for you for the first three months, six months, especially if you're planning on doing it for a long period of time. And also realizing that no matter how much you try to think about everything in the beginning there's definitely going to be a point in time where your first month on the road your first couple months on the road you're gonna start to want some changes you're gonna start to understand the lifestyle it's like anything. Once you experience it you're gonna have a little bit more of an opinion about it as opposed to in the beginning. When I think when you're naive about things you almost tend to like think of yourself as a little bit more of an expert and then as you start to dive into any subject you realize how little you know about it. So I think that's that's the same when it comes to band life.

SPEAKER_01 38:21

That has been a bedrock theme for almost all of our guests uh since we've started this podcast uh you you've got to experience to experience it to really know what you're gonna want.

SPEAKER_00 38:34

Oh yeah so that's why actually we've we've thought about getting into like the rental game as well because I do generally when someone comes to me and approaches me about hey I'm thinking about doing this or I'm thinking about doing that sometimes I honestly think the best piece of advice for someone who's like really going back and forth on it is take the money and go rent go rent one for a couple of weeks. You know go go genuinely see if this is the type of lifestyle for you. Because I know that there's even from being on Marketplace, there's plenty of people that are on you know that that thought that they were going to like it or liked it for six months and then didn't and then there's other people that maybe didn't think that they would like it and they go on a a trip with a friend or something like that and then they're the ones living in their van for the next ten years. So it's definitely one of those things that you got to test um yeah you got to test out and make sure that you're not only cut out for it but it's just the type of lifestyle that you that you like. Because sometimes it's harder for me it's easy to transition into van life for me. It's actually harder for me to come back from van life and transition into living in a house. Because it's just you're stagnant. You're in one place constantly you don't you can't just up and move and go wherever you want. But then there's some people I know that would freak out at the idea of not knowing where they're waking up every single morning. So again I think it's personal preference.

SPEAKER_01 39:45

That's that's such a great way to to end the podcast but I can't because I have a couple questions I I want to get to before we finish up.

SPEAKER_00 39:54

First uh uh what's next for nanovans so I'm actually I'm we're really excited about 2026 uh we just signed up for the Peace Love and Vans event coming up here in a couple of months. Yep uh definitely looking forward to it um so this is actually the first year like we said we got into like kind of how this whole thing started with the beginning not really being super prepared for the first show. Even the second show we came and we were a little bit more prepared in the sense that we had all that business stuff together but I was still very much focused on the residential commercial side of my business. This going into 2026 is the first year we have we have a full building just built on our own property so instead of renting a space out by the airport into land now we have a building on our own property so we bought the lot next to our house we put a big steel building in there we put a 10,000 pound lift I brought all my equipment all my tools and everything half the stuff I had lost in you know areas, corners of buildings I was renting that I had no idea that I had any of this stuff. So the end of 2025 was basically getting everything to the point where we can hit 2026 running. So when we come to this year's Peace Love and Vans event we will we'll be 100% ready to actually you know sign a contract get you know get people on board for things that they need to do have a space that they can come and actually visit they can see the concept vehicle janit um and then they can kind of go from there and and you know actually have a space like a quote unquote brick and mortar place. And it makes me feel you know a little bit more legitimate as well because when whenever you're renting a space and it doesn't feel like it's completely your own it's kind of like an industrial center of I mean you're still getting the job done but this just feels a lot more it feels a lot more official and this whole building was basically geared around doing van you know just even investing the money into a lift and all the mechanical equipment that we need that was a big thing but it allows me to kind of focus more on having a space that was designed around building vans. All the build-ups that I've done right now were honestly done like how a DIYer would do them. They were done in parking lots they were done under you know under a tent they were I mean it was just kind of anything that needed to get done this is the first time I can pull a pull a van in I can put it up on a lift I can have it you know I can have it there for as long as I need to if it starts downpour it doesn't matter so it's it's it's been nine days I've I've only gotten used I've only it's it's only been up for a couple weeks like fully 100% done. We did all the work ourselves pulled all the permits ourselves did all the electrical all the feeder cables um so it was definitely it took about four months of like the full process of going from pouring the slabs and doing all the electric and the plumbing and the building itself and I built a loft in there so it's got like a couch hangout. We're gonna have a podcast um uh area set up in the back so we'll hopefully be inspired by this podcast and start some version of ourselves and then it'll also allow us to have cameras set up in there so we can do live streams we can document a lot more of the van builds um even if we're doing like we do all of our own mechanical work for instance too so anything that we're doing the ProMasters you know ProMasters in particular for us or some of the other Sprinter style vehicles anything that we're doing if it hasn't been done it'll allow us to actually take you know video footage of what we're doing and and publish that for the viewer. So if they run into a similar problem or want to see exactly how a particular you know aspect of a project was done hopefully they can just kind of log in and they can go to that exact clip and see how that was done and and walk through it step by step. So that's the plan for 2026 is to hit the ground running and just utilize that building in all different directions. So that's amazing uh congrats on a huge milestone and in advance on uh on uh big gear thank you okay final question um uh you told us in the pre-interview about a really interesting uh competition that you won't tell us tell us briefly that story uh okay so um when I so when I when I went into college um like I said I was first into the ceramics and in the ceramics there's a a small teapot competition for emerging artists in uh Japan it's uh actually China Fuping China and uh it's a small teapot competition and um yeah that was I was one of the few Americans to get accepted into the show and then I ended up getting a call from Japan stating that I won the event. Wow which yeah and it was and that's a very it's one of those things that if you're not in the like ceramic community it doesn't seem like it's all that big of a deal but the Asian community takes their pottery very very seriously that is like that is the epitome. So before I transition to some of my larger scale projects that are you know almost in many ways things that I'm even more proud of but the accolade of actually going into you know going to somebody else's territory where they look at it you know from a from a totally different point of view. It's a like a very respect driven uh art form over there so to have to have that as like part of my resume and my accolade for over there is it was it was awesome.

SPEAKER_01 44:58

So hopefully we can get a picture of that.

SPEAKER_00 45:01

Yeah definitely uh that's amazing I I don't obviously I don't know anything about that industry or that community that field but uh I can just imagine that an American going over there winning is uh atypical at least oh yeah I was I was very much surprised even my my professor at the time who was a very he was a pretty well known ceramic artist he he had me apply to the show as just kind of like a as a spoof because he thought that a lot of the work that I was doing was kind of in that in that genre and he said hey these are these are the people that would respect because in America it's difficult. That's why I transition away from doing a lot of the pottery because it's hard I mean unless you're doing those craft shows I mean they just kind of they look at you just as making cups and pots and things like that. Whereas that community over there I mean you could you can be famous. I mean if you if you design a a a really interesting teapot that has some sort of interesting aesthetic to it or you know just from a utilitarian approach actually accomplishes something I mean they'll put your name on posters I'm not I'm not even it's a it's incredible totally different totally different thing over there.

SPEAKER_01 46:01

So way to go that's amazing that's such a great story. Um well uh Troy from Nanavans thank you so much for spending some time I love meeting with you and I can't wait to see you in uh Florida in March for Peace Love Advance.

SPEAKER_00 46:15

Yeah definitely I'm looking forward to it man yeah this has been awesome and I appreciate you inviting me on and uh yeah definitely check it check us out nanavans.com and uh we'll be at the next show Peace Love Advance so that's the best place.

SPEAKER_01 46:27

Outstanding thanks for listening to Van Life Roadmap photos links and details from this episode are all up at Vanlifeoutfitters dot com slash podcast and don't forget to subscribe share it with a friend and join us for the next episode I'm Jerem with FanLife Outfitters. We'll see you out on the road