Ep. 6 - Belonging Matters: Saving Vulnerable Youth

In a culture that often demands immediate conformity, vulnerable teenagers face an uphill battle trying to figure out where they fit in. We sit down with Joi McGowan, a licensed professional therapist in Northwest Arkansas with over a decade of experience, to tackle the raw challenges facing teens today, particularly those within the LGBTQ community.

We get into the specific tactical elements of adolescent mental health and family dynamics. Our conversation breaks down why traditional adult frameworks fail to decode a teenager's behavioral cues, the intersection of identity and somatic based attachment, and how to spot hypervigilance in struggling youth. Joi shares a unique perspective on tracking behavioral shifts, offering a fresh way for parents to view disruptive behaviors not as defiance, but as misdirected reaches for connection.

The reality of this work means moving past quick fixes and stepping into the messy, slow process of active emotional work. Adults often misinterpret a teen's anger or isolation as a desire to be left alone, missing the underlying grief or fear entirely. Viewers will walk away from this conversation with a practical framework for practicing unconditional curiosity, learning how to validate a teen's internal world even when they do not share the same background or spiritual framework.

If you care about adolescent well being, building safer community spaces, and understanding the nuances of youth identity, you will get a lot from this episode. Please subscribe to Loud Enough and share this video with a parent, educator, or leader who needs to hear it. What is one way you can practice active curiosity with the teenagers in your life this week? Let us know in the comments below.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hi and welcome. I'm Dawn Sprague, a licensed professional counselor, and this is Loud Enough, a podcast for the Teen Action and Support Center. And we are aiming to make sure that the challenges and needs of teenagers are known in our community and beyond our community. Last month we talked a little bit about mental health and the crisis that we have for youth in terms of mental health. We had a great teenager on talking a little bit with us and just some of the challenges that our teenagers are facing. And I feel like that kind of leads well into what we'd like to talk about this month. This month is National Pride Month. And we would like to talk a little bit about some of the challenges that our teenagers are facing, those who are part of the LGBTQ community. And today I have a guest joining me who is a therapist here in town. And Joy, I'm going to let you introduce yourself today.

SPEAKER_01 1:05

Thanks so much, Dawn, for having me. I'm really excited to be on the podcast today. I am Joy McGowan, a licensed professional therapist in Northwest Arkansas. I've been doing therapy for the last 12 years. I am a transplant to Northwest Arkansas, originally from the Chicagoland area and have been living here in NWA for almost uh nine years. I am super excited to talk about this particular topic with you. So thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_00 1:32

Yeah, thank you so much. I I appreciate it. Um, I don't think I realized that you were from Chicago, but um how do you like it here in Northwest Arkansas?

SPEAKER_01 1:42

Yeah, Northwest Arkansas is good. It's really slow, and it's always been a place for me to find rest and to slow down and to take care of myself. Uh, so it's been really, really good to be here.

SPEAKER_00 1:54

Great, great. And you have kids of your own too. Why don't you tell us about how old they are?

SPEAKER_01 1:59

Yes, yes. My husband and I have been married for the last 14 years. So we are in our 15th year and we have four kids 12, 10, 4, and 2, two boys at the top and two girls at the bottom. So we feel like we have the dream team and it's good.

SPEAKER_00 2:16

It's so good. Yep. So pretty soon you'll have those, uh, you'll have a house full of teenagers. So um, but thank you. Thank you for um coming and talking with me. We we do know that um are that teenagers are struggling. We talk about it often, and we know that there are very um, very many of our teens in pretty vulnerable populations that have some extra challenges. And so I appreciate you talking with us a little bit about that today. And we know that um, according to the research, that students who identify in the LGBTQ community are at much higher risk for all kinds of mental health challenges, um, and and their suicide rate is so significantly higher. It's very important for us, I think, to talk about that a little bit today. So I just would love to hear from you about some of the challenges that um that our kids are facing. And I know that it's not the only vulnerable population. There are youth who um are are struggling for a number of different reasons. And um, so you can you can make that as broad as you like, but let's talk a little bit about that.

SPEAKER_01 3:30

Yeah, for sure. No, the research is clear that for youth who identify within a different cultural group, so whether biculturally, black, people within Latin America, uh our teens within Latin America, or our teens who who identify within the LGBT community, those teens all send to have tend to have a higher risk for things like anxiety, depression, suicidal thoughts, or suicidal attempts. And I think that maybe some reasons to that has a lot to do with this issue of like connection and belonging and wondering and knowing where do I belong and who do I belong to. And so I think it's really, really important to have a conversation like this for providers and for parents and for communities, right? To know like how can we help attune to the issue of belonging for teens who are different and who see themselves as different, um, and who are told in probably negative ways, unhelpful ways, that they are different. Um, and really that they are different and they don't belong. Uh, and the research is showing us how that impacts teens, right? That it causes them to feel more sad than normal, uh, to feel like they don't matter, that their issues are not important. Um, and we know that it matters, that there are people who look like me and that there are people who accept me for who I am and how I am.

SPEAKER_00 5:00

Yeah. Like you use the word attune to um symptoms of belonging. I I think that's I think that's a really important thing. How how can we as adults um in in families as well as in the community, how do we attune to that? How do we know that a a teenager either feels like they belong or feels like they don't belong? Like how would we know that?

SPEAKER_01 5:27

Yeah, I think that's that's even harder because I think sometimes with our teenagers, they um they do some things that look like pushing people away and like isolating themselves from people that make us with adult brains feel like they don't even care. They don't even want me here. See, they don't do this and they don't do that. They don't they don't get excited when I come in the room. And I imagine probably most teens don't get excited, but most adults walk into a room. Most teens don't really that's not how they always respond. Um, right. And they probably have certain things that get them really excited and up and and up elevated in a positive way, right? But probably not always like our particular presence, right? And so I think that that's real, that's a really hard question. Um, I like to think about it um in this way of thinking, like when my I don't have teens yet, but my 12-year-old is very communicative about uh things that he likes and things that he needs and how he responds to me. And so there are some times where he is communicating to me that feels upregulated, and I want to like, and it feels like he's pushing me away. But when I put on my adult brain, I'm like, oh, is my kid really trying to push me away? Or does my kid not know how to communicate? I need you to come close. I think sometimes as adults, we forget that like our children are still having attachment needs and learning how to reach in age-appropriate ways that looks different than when they were a baby, right? When our babies were, when kids were little, babies, they cried all the time. And the mom or dad just had to like kind of decode the cry. It's just a sleep cry, a pee cry, a poop cry. Like we did all this work to decode the cry. But as we grow up, we too have forgotten how to cry in an age-appropriate way, right? And so we do these things that might look like disruptive behavior that might look like pushing away, pushing back, feeling agitated or irritated. Um those things to me are cues and signals for connection or what I said, belonging. Right.

SPEAKER_00 7:46

Yeah, I think uh you're right. It's it's hard to decode a teenager's cry because they're you know, they're either angry or they're sad or they're pulling away or they're asking for things. And and we we just we as adults don't know. I I I tell people often that you know, clarity is so important. Help me understand. Like, if we could say that as adults, if a kid is angry, if a kid is, you know, pulling away, like help me understand where you are, like, because I think they will, if somebody's interested, um, that's the connection piece, that's the belonging. And yeah, sometimes we we we fail to ask because we assume uh as adults that that we know. I I do think that isolation is one of those things that we really have to pay attention to because in some cases um students who go to their room, who pull away from their friends are uh are sometimes we assume that they just don't want to be around people, but sometimes they do that sort of as a self-protection factor, um, especially our vulnerable teens, you know, who are who are in these communities where they feel really abandoned or um isolated emotionally. So yeah, that's that's something we we maybe can do as adults a little better too. Um, I was wondering like what are um what are some of the things you've seen? And I know that you do a lot of training and um helping educate adults, but and there's a lot of research around like what are some of the specific um results of the challenges that teens feel, that disconnection, that um, you know, that isolation when they when they're feeling a lack of belonging, what do we see typically?

SPEAKER_01 9:40

Yeah, I think sometimes we tend to see that teens are maybe easily angered, easily frustrated. Um, there might be lots of conflict, um, this hypervigilance, so to speak, right? This sense of um maybe feeling mad all the time, upset at things. Um, and then also, you know, you mentioned that part about the isolation as self-protection. Um, I think that is definitely part of it. And reminding, I think for parents or adults, is reminding ourselves, like, who does my team might feel safe with to like share and open up? Um, and sometimes how can I, is there a way for me to communicate to my teen just what I'm noticing in them, what I see in them? When I like to work with parents, I often want to ask them, like, what have you noticed about your teen lately? What have you seen in them? And usually sometimes like parents are parents are tracking their teen's mood. They are tracking their behaviors. And that tells me that a parent is trying to be attuned to what their teen needs and what their teen is trying to communicate, even if sometimes we as parents we misunderstand what certain behaviors mean. But parents are tracking and are trying to be attuned and notice. And so oftentimes in family therapy, I have the the privilege to be able to help the teen see. Actually, your your mom noticed when you went to your room all those times and noticed that, like, and was worried that you might be sad, but didn't know how to approach it, didn't know how to talk to you about it. And so therapy could be this really beautiful place where like parents and teens get to have a conversation in the same channel instead of like playing like radio tag, like they can't get on the same, on the same channel.

SPEAKER_00 11:23

You bring up a really important thing. I want to make sure I come back to it here in just a second, about families and and the impact and the um concern that they have when their children are identifying in the LGBTQ community, or when um, you know, just when their kids are struggling because they are being um set apart for whatever reason. So, but um, but I wanted to talk a little bit about anxiety. You mentioned it earlier, anxiety and depression. We know that the rates are much higher for certain students, students of color, students um who are LGBTQ. I I just I wonder if you could just talk about that a little bit. Like, what does anxiety and um depression really look like for some of the teens that might be that that might be at risk?

SPEAKER_01 12:13

Anxiety can show up in our bodies as a panic type space, um, feeling panicky, feeling um overwhelmed, um, noticing like a faster heartbeat, noticing either like speaking too quickly or maybe speaking too slowly, maybe even noticing things that like my mind feels like it won't stop going. This going, going, going nonstop. Nothing helps me feel calm or soothed on the inside. Um, depression can tend to not always be like really cheerful and really sad. Depression can be really angry and really upset and really irritated. I think sometimes when teens are depressed, they're more likely really angry and really disruptive. And when I try to give that information to parents, like your teen sounds depressed. Fairs are like, what do you mean? I've never seen them cry. Just can't be able to do that.

SPEAKER_00 13:07

We have an anger issue, is what they mean. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 13:10

Right. But we all know anger, anger is usually hiding something else. It's usually hiding something that feels that unfair, something that feels like like a justice issue. Anger is usually hiding something that feels more like disappointment or sadness or grief or loss. And I think sometimes as adults with our adult brains, we think that children, teenagers, don't have anything to be that sad about, but really they do when we think about the state of our world and children and teens identifying as something other than what's the typical gender binary of male or female, there are lots of things to be sad and disappointed and upset and justicely like rightfully angry about when people don't tend to understand who I am. I'm also trying to recognize how our teens live in two different worlds. There's a world of where I have to present a certain way for all the adults in my life. And then there's a world that I'm trying to navigate and figure out like who I'm gonna sit with at the lunch table because this group likes this and this group does this, and I can't go to my my choir room today because they're not gonna be. They're two worlds, right? So that there's these, there's these pressures to to be and perform an identity. And I think that sometimes our adult brains forget that identity is all wrapped up in belonging. Identity is not the confidence for me to say, I'm Joy McGowan. Identity is for me to know I'm Joy McGowan and I know who I belong to. I know who stands behind me, who has gone before me. Uh identity is wrapped up in our sense of belonging. And so when I am identifying outside of the gender binary, now I'm like, well, then who else do I belong to within the gender binary if I don't identify with the regular gender binary? Identity and belonging can like us.

SPEAKER_00 15:06

And and identity is such a a big um developmental part of being an adolescent, right? Just, you know, just trying to get some clarity on that for themselves. And so I think that's probably where a lot of the anxiety comes from. Now, not just who am I going to sit with at the table, but if I sit with someone at the table, will I be able to have connection? Will I will I find belonging? You know, so there's a lot of fear around, around that for a lot of our a lot of our kids, a lot of our teenagers specifically. Um, I I did want to go back to um families. You talked about that. And you know, in my own experience with um with families who have um who have a a teenager who is identifying in the LGBTQ community, then parents can can be very afraid. And um, and I was just wanted to talk about that a little bit. Like, how do you help parents and families kind of navigate the um the waters while teenagers are working through their identities and who they are and where they belong?

SPEAKER_01 16:18

Yeah, I think this is a really beautiful question because it is a reminder for us as adults with our adult brains that we need to process our own emotions and um our own emotions about our children through a filter, that we already process these things through a particular filter, a particular bio, psychosocial, cultural, spiritual filter. And when that filter um has particular expectations of gender that are outside that only stay in one particular framework, then we tend to not be really flexible for something else. And so when our child who grows up in a home where their parents might not have a very um open idea of gender, uh it can bring a lot of anxiety to the parent themselves. And I would assume that the parent is probably worried about what will this mean for my kid? Um, will they be accepted, accepted, will they be loved, will they be bullied, will they be hurt? And these might not all be things that the parent is expressing to the kid. The parent might just be expressing some negative ways of communicating their concerns of like, you can't do this, being really harsh, being really hard, you don't know who you are, you don't know what you who you love, you're just a kid, right? We are doing all these things that are dismissive and minimize the experience that our child is having. And so, to that, I would say to the parent, when you were a child, who did you turn to with big emotions and big things? Who did you turn to to talk out loud about your sense of identity? Sometimes I would imagine that parents might say, no one. They might say one particular parent, they might say someone, some adult who was outside of the home, they might say it was a teacher or it was a friend, or they might say, we didn't do that type of thing in my family. And so then to that, I would say, well, kudos to you that your kid has found you safe enough to say, I don't think that I am existing on this gender binary of male or female. Kudos to you that you have created more safety for your kid to even tell you that they are thinking outside of the gender binary. Kudos to you. That's safe. You have made it safe enough for your child to share something that feels really scary and really unknown to them. And now they have brought you in on that, right? And so it's something about as a parent, we have to slow ourselves down and say, the fact that I'm having the conversation with my kid in the first place is a plus. And how can I meet my kid with some compassion to say, hey Jojo, mommy actually doesn't have a framework for this. Tell me more about what it feels like for you.

SPEAKER_00 19:17

Yeah, that curiosity. Right. Yeah. And and then, and then I'm, you know, I think that what you said earlier about parents kind of um understanding that they're where they are, um, that deserves processing too. So to be able to do that with safe people. Um, but there's a difference between your teen and you as parent and adult, because like you said, the way our brains work are so different, the way our emotions regulate are so different. So um that's really that's really good. But you also mentioned that sometimes uh looking for belonging and connection happens outside of your family unit. And so it becomes real important as a community. Um, we you and I had talked earlier a little bit about um how important school is um because kids spend eight hours a day there unless they're on summer break, like right now, but um, but they spend a lot of time there. And so what advice do you have for people who are working with youth, who are uh in school systems and other systems where they're working directly with youth who might be having some of these um fears and trying to understand themselves better and where they belong?

SPEAKER_01 20:39

Yeah, no, great question. I feel like the re so I know that the research talks a lot more about how it is really important for teens, especially these teens, our most vulnerable teens, teens who identify with a different cultural background, other than being white, or teens identify within the LGBTQ TQ community. They need um a safe other adult within their family system that they feel like they can check in with and talk to. They need schools that they feel like they that they are connected with. And so that can be a number of ways of feeling connected to a teacher, connecting to a particular sports group, connected to some type of like club or something at school that like connects them. Ultimately, the research says that teens need to know that school will be safe. Teens need to know that like adults in my home will be safe, teen needs to know that like adults even within my community will be safe. So a lot of the research um talks about making sure, like how do you make sure that your teen has access to relationships and connections within the school, within your home, and within your community? And so clubs and and um, you know, teams, school teams or outside, outside teams, right? And even like in the classroom, does the teenager, does the student, well, however old they are, feel connected and seen and known in the place that they are? At. And some of us as parents, we have made decisions about what school we want our child to go to for the very reason. I want my kid to not feel like a number. I want them to be able to like know. I want the teacher to really know their name, right? Like some of us have made decisions about where our child goes to school so that their child will be seen. But I think that is the heart of the research that teens need to feel seen. They need to feel believed. They need to feel like known.

SPEAKER_00 22:31

Yeah. I um I was um with a group a while back. It's been a little while, but um, I thought that this was so important. They had taken a survey on what made a teacher a really good teacher. Like in a this was, I think in a um, like in a community college setting. And um, and like 78, 79%, just under 80% of the students said the teacher knows my name. How simple is that?

SPEAKER_01 23:04

It's huge.

SPEAKER_00 23:04

Just just to, you know, to be I know, just to be known uh by your name. My name uh it's just yeah, it's just yeah, there's another piece of research.

SPEAKER_01 23:15

It's so good. There's another piece of research that says that then the word that we love to hear the most is our own name.

SPEAKER_00 23:24

Okay, yeah, well then that makes sense. That makes sense. Well, I think I think it's it's yeah, go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 23:34

No, it goes back to your point about connection, right? Like if so if I feel like someone knows my name, then I feel more connected to this place, to these people, right? Like attachment, I I feel like I since I've done a lot of some trainings with EFT and somatic based therapies, and I feel like I have learned to broaden my my view of attachment, that attachment is not just my attachment to people that I love, but also my attachment is to places that I love, it's to activities and things that I do. And so I think that's why the research brings up this point that like students need to be known at school, they need to be known in their community. Because if I know that someone knows my name, then I can walk into the lunchroom and I know that someone's gonna like, hey, sit with me, Joy. Or I can walk into the front door of the school and the principal's gonna dab me up, like, hey Joy, welcome, welcome to school. How was your day last night? What did you do with your you right?

SPEAKER_00 24:30

Like Yeah. Yeah, that's I I I love that. And I I think that that's really an important thing as we're thinking about who we are as a community and how we are going to change things for uh teenagers in just in our community, but also nationally. How how are we going to keep them safer? And I think, especially the most vulnerable ones, really being able to know them, um, be curious about who they are, and make sure that you are a safe adult person for them by by being able to do that, offering connection and belonging without judgment. And I I I think that um I think it's just a really important conversation to be having right now on on the heels of mental health awareness month and in the middle of um Pride Month, just being able to recognize that there are uh certain teenagers who are are really struggling and sometimes silently struggling, which we don't we don't want that either. Um we we want to hear them, hear their voices. So um any other things that you can think of that are important for uh parents and adults or even for other teenagers to be able to um to address the sensitivities and the um the nuances of making sure people feel loved and belonging and connection and all those very important things?

SPEAKER_01 26:03

Yeah. I think the big one that comes up for me that I do want to mention just because we do live in the Bible Belt is this issue of spirituality. I think sometimes when we are in a a place, a physical place like the Bible Belt of the South, a little bit of the Midwest, right? That we can feel this sense of responsibility to our faith and to our beliefs. And then we might question and challenge the faith and the belief of our child who comes out to say that they identify within the LGBT community. And so oftentimes I feel like I try to work with parents to say just because your child identifies in this way doesn't mean that they have lost their faith, that they have abandoned their belief system, but something in them has actually deepened. Their beliefs and their values have deepened. And maybe this is a really good time to get to know more about them and learn about their beliefs and their values, what matters to them. Tell me why identifying with this community matters to you. Because I didn't realize that this was part of your belief system, part of your values. And so I think sometimes, like and especially in our country right now, right? We're so divided. We are we are at two different places, and that is because our values and beliefs are so different. And so I'm I would hope that parents, adults with our adult brains will get really curious and ask questions about what does my team value? And how can I just keep learning as they are learning about what feels valuable to them?

SPEAKER_00 27:41

Right, right. Yeah, I I I think curiosity seems to be the the one thing that we want to encourage and just in understanding, because I think in the teenage brain, um, being able to ask them questions that make them think about values and think about all of the things that make them who they are, I think that helps them. Like it helps their brains develop. It helps them understand themselves and the world better and uh and have some clarity for themselves. So when we ask questions, we're not just we're not just helping ourselves know more, we're also helping our teenagers know more about themselves and how to really be able to narrate and articulate who they are. So um, yeah, I love that curiosity is one of my favorite things. And so um that maybe that helps in in being a therapist that that we that we can be real curious. So um I just want to thank you. I want to thank you for um just for sharing your insights and your your thoughts today. I do want to just encourage people too, as you said, not just to be curious, but to understand that um teenagers do think differently than we do as adults. They understand the world around them and themselves differently than we do as adults, and um that we need to be attuned to how they are connecting and their sense of belonging. I think all of that is really important. I would say that um we do have some resources here in our community. Uh, we at the Teen Action and Support Center, we work pretty closely with the equality crew. They have a number of resources and ways to connect with teens and with families too who identify in the LGBTQ community. And so we want to just um give a shout out to them, but also appreciate the work that they're doing. They have uh a resource guide called um the Rainbow Radar, and it is a resource um for people who um can know some of the LGBTQ friendly um places here in in our community. And so um encourage you to take a look at that too. There are others I know, but um the the real point that we want to make sure we encourage um today is that our teenagers need to feel safe. They need to belong and to be connected to healthy people around them so that they can grow to be the best version of themselves, which is what we seek to do at task. So so thank you so much for being here, for sharing uh just what you know and uh a little bit of encouragement with people this month on our podcast. And I wish you well. I I love the way when you when you send notes, you encourage people to be well. And I I love that and appreciate that um about you. And we just um we just want to encourage people who are listening to if you want more information about the work we do at the Teen Action and Support Center, you can check out our website and uh see about the things we do or connect with somebody on the staff so we can um help guide you in some of the ways that we can ensure and support teenagers here and as well as their families. So um thank you for listening today. Joy, thank you for being with us, and I hope all of you are well in the days ahead.