Ep. 15: He Left the US Army to Build Asia's First AI Fund

"I did a deck eight years ago around why this is the Asian century." - Tak Lo, Komputational Kulture

The US looked at AI and saw Armageddon. China looked at AI and said this is great, we should embrace it. Tak Lo bet on that gap eight years before ChatGPT made it obvious. He went from US Army engineer to Booz Allen to London Business School to founding Asia's first AI-focused accelerator in Hong Kong in 2017, with around 50 portfolio companies, one IPO, and two acquisitions before Animoca took a majority stake. He is now raising two new funds at Komputational Kulture, one in media and entertainment, one in space.

In this episode:

• The comparative study that flipped his thesis: US perceives AI as Armageddon, China perceives it as productivity
• "When you download an AI app, you are trading your privacy" - and why that deal lands differently in Asia
• The eight-year-old deck on why this is the Asian century, vindicated by DeepSeek
• How DeepSeek came out of a hedge fund's GPU inventory as a side hustle
• From US Army to Booz Allen to Techstars London to Asia's first AI accelerator in Hong Kong
• Two new Komputational Kulture funds, one in media and entertainment, one in space
• Why live human content becomes the premium as AI slop floods every feed
• Kudum: a Chengdu spin-off turning your phone camera into a 10-minute sperm test
• South Korea at 0.85 children per woman, and why every modern country lands in the same hole
• Why he is moving his family from Hong Kong to Shenzhen, and what he wants to find in Robo Valley

About Tak:
Tak Lo is a fourth-generation Hong Kong VC and AI strategist, currently raising two new funds at Komputational Kulture. He founded Zeroth.ai in 2017, Asia's first AI-focused accelerator. Co-runs The Automated, a daily AI newsletter, and is the author of three books: I, Leader; The Flow; and Atomic Prompts. Career: US Army engineer, Booz Allen Hamilton, London Business School MBA, Techstars London, Hong Kong eleven years ago.

Connect:
thetaklo.com

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

The US was like, AI is bad, it's gonna take a lot of jobs, we're all gonna get killed, it's gonna be on regarding. This drives our productivity, we should be, you know, we should embrace it. They want it to happen. So that means that they're gonna implement it. People will download apps. When you're downloading an AI app, you are trading your privacy, you're giving data to train models, right? If they don't tell you that, it's the deal. It's the deal, that's the deal. You should know that's the deal. If you don't know it, sorry, that's on you, right? Why is this in the Asian century?

SPEAKER_01 0:34

It was a big shock for like the entire world, basically, where everybody was seeing okay, China is doing something really great.

SPEAKER_00 0:46

So, tech. Hello, welcome. Thank you. Thank you for having me here.

SPEAKER_02 0:50

Yeah, welcome for being here. So, a couple of years ago, you were still at the US Army as an engineer, and now you're sitting in Shenzhen in our podcast. Yeah, that's right. What a what a big change. What a journey.

SPEAKER_00 1:04

Yeah, that's right.

SPEAKER_02 1:05

So tell us a little bit, how did it start? Like you being in the US Army.

SPEAKER_00 1:10

Oh, yeah. Um, so essentially it was it was actually that my first job outside after the university. Well, actually, first before I came out. Thank thank you again for having me. I know it took a little bit for us to arrange the times. The first time around, I was like, yeah, that's a little bit further away from City Center. So it is. So I was like, maybe I need to stack this in the first thing of the day I need to do. That way I do this and then and then figure out where I'm gonna be in Shenzhen. So thank you for being patient. Wonderful place, wonderful um kind of podcast studio. It's visually very, very nice. For the listeners, there's like three lights, and it's very professional here. So yeah, so I started off my career in the United States Army. I was an engineer after college. So went to the University of Chicago, studied economics with some really brilliant minds, but I felt everything was very academic. And uh, I am slightly older. Uh so I I joined uh actually when the Iraq war started. Um, and so I was like everything's 2003, correct? Yeah, 2003. So the war started, and I was like, well, I want to do something that was globally interesting. I didn't want to just go into a bank, and I felt that was the most important thing around the time, and then uh yeah, signed up and joined the United States Army, and uh they sent me instead of Iraq, they sent me to Korea, which they were basically the only two places that they would send you. So I had a bunch of guys that went to the sandbox, which is Iraq, and then they sent the other kind of crew or the other kind of big contingent over to Korea, which is still actually technically in war. Um uh the Korean War officially never ended. It's still I think it's considered officially a truce. Really? Yeah. So um, so yeah, so I was there two and a half years. Uh I met my wife there, so I I got something out of it. Um better food than in Iraq. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Uh better food, better culture. Um, so yeah, so that's kind of what I did. How long did you stay there in uh in Korea? I was in uh Korea for about two and a half years. So I think my contract was like two years, and then I extended it for a little bit in Korea. The rest of my time in Korea, they sent me back to the US to to get, I think the term was to get ETS'd out. So I just did my offboarding and and everything in the US and then I left.

SPEAKER_01 3:31

Okay, and then you started working in the US as well.

SPEAKER_00 3:34

That's right, yeah. So I then then I continue on I I I was a defense contractor for about two and a half, three years. So I was a consultant for the defense industry in in in Washington DC, Virginia. Whenever anyone says Washington DC, they live it's a lie. They probably live, unless they're a politician, they live in Virginia or Maryland. So I was in Virginia for the longest time. I worked for um two firms, uh something called Baron Point and Booz Island Hamilton. So I consulted on on defense for two and a half years. And then I said I didn't want to be part of defense anymore, which can be a good or bad thing. It's a very small industry, or sorry, but it's a big industry, but it's very closed, if as you can probably imagine. So a lot of people went to West Point or um Naval Academy in order to get up. I didn't go to any of the two, so I said I have a cap. Also didn't have my US citizenship. No, I did have my US citizenship, but I I I was too complicated because my wife's Korean from Hong Kong originally, and so it's very difficult to rise up politically there. So I said, nope, I have to have an international career. That's when I went to London for business school. So I needed I I said I need to go internationally. I want to go to business school in a different location, like Europe. I've always liked Harry Potter. Um, no, I don't, you know, Harry Potter's shit. I like James Bond. Can we we can't curse on this podcast? We can't. Oh, yeah, is it whatever you want? I mean, you you will get canceled. Exactly. Uh maybe if we speak sh uh German, it's Schaitzer. So it's it's yeah, so no one can notice that. Yeah, so I was in London for two and a half years, or sorry, two years during the MBA. Loved Europe, loved my time there. It's a great time to be in Europe back then. The tech scene was starting. So I did a startup after my MBA. I'm just gonna cover my entire career and then and then it might be a little bit easier. Save you from asking questions. So I did a startup a little bit, failed spectacularly, didn't go well. So I said maybe I'll make for a better investor. So I joined Tech Stars in in in London. That was their first international office and first European office. So I did that for about two and a half years, invested in I think about I think with Tech Stars invested probably about 50, 60 startups uh across Europe. Startups basically AI. Uh it was too early for AI. So basically for tech. That was 2011. Oh, 2013. Oh. German startups we didn't really invest in, but I went uh well, sorry, we did, but I didn't. Um, but primarily I focus on kind of Eastern Europe. I went to Belarus, I went to Romania a lot, I went to Armenia a lot, I went to Scandinavia a lot, I saw like Estonia, right? So there were lots of very interesting things there. Berlin was great for the coffee shops and the raves. The raves and the curry worst. Yeah, I remember those.

SPEAKER_01 6:34

Estonia is a very, very interesting country.

SPEAKER_00 6:36

Like yeah, I I mean I was that's why I think I was always interested in kind of the edge, right? As a personality, but also kind of my experience investing as well. Because even back then, the best startups would go to London, and then you know, Germany and then uh uh France would actually have great startups as well. But then if you wanted to be early, if you didn't want to overpay, but also like we were extremely early stage, we're very comfortable with being early stage. We wanted to get them before they go to London, before they go to France, before they go to Germany. And so that meant we have to go to Eastern Europe, we have to go to, we have to go to the source. And so I got to experience that a lot and really enjoy that because I think that's really where the raw talent happens. And Eastern Europe in Estonia, as much as they don't like, they like to consider themselves as Nordics. I don't know if you knew that, but if you go to the Estonian air airport, like all their design is like Nordic. And I was like, I don't know about that. I don't know what my Swedish friends think. Um, and you know, you guys are Europeans, they're not quite Nordic, right? They they're they're more Eastern, yeah. Yeah, they're more Eastern, but I think that's the thing, they've got all the bits of the Eastern bit, right? Which is the analytical, the structure thinking that the Soviet, you know, gave them.

SPEAKER_02 7:55

I mean, it's a good thing. It's a fantastic thing. We both we have Eastern European backgrounds. Oh, right. So so it's like uh I think but but we I mean we are German, so we both were born in Germany, but our parents are like kind of immigrants. From from so my parents lived in the Soviet Union, all right, and uh his parents in Poland, yeah. Poland, yeah, but we're in the Soviet Union in Kazakhstan. What's Kazakhstan now? Yeah, but they're like it's a it's a it's a long story. So there were German communities in the Soviet Union in the different countries of the Soviet Union, okay, and my parents and all my brothers and sisters were born in what is now Kazakhstan.

SPEAKER_00 8:31

Oh wow, and we we have some Kazakh uh neighbors, okay horse, horse guys, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:37

So so they were not Kazakh, they didn't have the Kazakh lifestyle, right? Um, but my mom also cooked some Kazakh food at home and the bread and uh noodles, dumplings, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:50

But why were the German communities in a long story, long story?

SPEAKER_02 8:54

It was like the grandparents of my grandparents moved from Germany to Ukraine first, and then then further further east and east, and then in the 90s, most of them moved back to to Germany.

SPEAKER_00 9:06

I don't know that. I didn't know that. Um yeah, but you know, so so it's interesting. It is, I think Eastern Europe, it's it's one, it's more structured, obviously, because of the Soviet kind of style, and then also they're more open.

SPEAKER_01 9:18

Oh, yeah, they're extremely open and also entrepreneurial friendly, which is something you wouldn't really know if you're not. I think because they're hungry, because they didn't see it.

SPEAKER_00 9:28

So, you know, like the Estonians are kind of like that, but if you could like the Romanians, Armenians, you know, I didn't really go to Kazakhstan, so I don't know, but Belarus is also a little bit different because it's still pretty like you know.

SPEAKER_02 9:42

I mean, they are great people in all of these countries, yes, right? Yeah, yeah, but we also have like some friends who open offices in Kazakhstan now, yeah. And um, then we have uh we met people from Romania and Hungary here in Shenzhen.

SPEAKER_01 9:57

Yeah, so uh I've also worked with uh a lot of Romanians together in my previous company in my team. So like these are great people. Fantastic, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:05

In two years, yeah, they're they're they're more open, they're more entrepreneurial, I think they're hungrier. Yeah, um, and then because of the internet, then they know everything about the world and whether they're well well traveled or not, depending on the passport, but still they're they're open conceptually and and ideologically and and theoretically. So I've I've really enjoyed kind of my time there because I thought, and then they had oh, what does that mean for an investor? What it means is one, they're hungry, right? They came from nothing, so they like were ideas on how to do things, right? They're not fixed on like, oh, this is the way to do it. This is the American style of doing it, this is the Western Europe style of doing it. We're interested in trying something different, or and this doesn't quite work, or this model doesn't quite work where we are. It's like, okay, that's pretty like that thinking was new.

SPEAKER_01 10:54

That's the that's the eastern thinking, I would say. Like also China is going the pragmatic way. We we just try. We're very open to new ideas, and I've heard, okay, this is this is great, let's try it. Yeah, and then see how it goes. And then along the way, we just either pivot or see how we figure it out, right?

SPEAKER_00 11:12

That's a really good point. It's the pragmaticism. It's like, you know, it works. So so let's not let's not you know the French or the Swedish. It's like we gotta have a meeting about the meeting about the and we have to have consensus and but let's do the meeting in three months. No, I love the Swedes, but still that I yeah, that's a very particular style, right? Of really, we have to come together and have consensus before we move on and stuff. And anyway, yeah, so I really enjoy my time in in in there. And then afterwards I said, Oh, time to move to to Asia. So at that time, my Yeah, why that? So my daughter was was born in London, so Vera, Vera Nora was born in London, but it was entirely for health reasons. So she had uh eczema, so her skin was too dry. The waters in the UK were were just too too dry for her skin. And so we said, and then my wife was stressing out, and it was very simple for me. I was like, look, I mean, if if my wife is is stressing out, you know, this is not something that can be traded with just drugs, it'll probably fuck her up for the long term. You know, the simple solution is is to move, right? Because I don't the last thing I need is is a stressed out, you know, young mom, first-time mom, right? Uh if because if I don't solve that situation, I don't I don't even have a career, right? Because I need to it starts with home, right? It starts with home. It starts with home first and especially your family. So I said, yeah, we're gonna move. So uh I said quit, uh move uh to Hong Kong because I'm originally from Hong Kong. And I said my wife's half Korean. So Hong Kong's the the easiest. We've got all the visas and everything and uh yeah, moved to Hong Kong 11 years ago. So that's uh that's how old my my daughter is. So then in Hong Kong, I was like, what do we do? What do I do? You know, I was uh I knew accelerators from tech stars, um and then AI was starting to become big in in in the UK. The smartest people that I knew in the UK were doing AI, right? So Demi is from DeepMind, Nathan actually from Air Street Capital, he was starting, Jan Talon from Skype. So they were really, really smart guys doing AI. And then I literally just thought, let's focus on AI. It makes the most sense in terms of the technological leap, and let's focus on that. So 10 years ago, I started the first AI accelerator. We invested in about 50 companies, uh focused on AI primarily in the Asian region. We had some of the big companies from Europe and Africa, but mostly here in Asia. So Korea, South Korea, China, uh, Southeast Asia, Vietnam, and uh Australia, one or two. And then yeah, they did pretty well. Some starters invested by Korean Development Bank, Sequoia, uh, Horizon Ventures, which is the largest uh family office in Hong Kong, and then yeah, so led me to here and uh yeah, Asia. So I'm I'm I'm all in Asia.

SPEAKER_02 14:14

That's actually very interesting because at that time, 2017, right? When you when you started it, yeah, most of the money still went to Silicon Valley. Sure. And a lot of people and funds and investors didn't even think about Asia, but um you at that time already had it on your radar. So what was uh the one thing that made you confident about Asia?

SPEAKER_00 14:39

That's a great question. And and I think the money is still to your point, the money is still in Silicon Valley, the valuations are still there. Yeah, um, um at that time you could argue Southeast Asia, so I had some like offers and discussions with funds in Southeast Asia, but I just never felt I had the edge in Southeast Asia. I'm not Southeast Asian, I can intellectually understand it, but I'm ultimately Hong Kong Chinese, right? Like there's no I have no edge in in Southeast Asia. So the money is still in the in the valley, most of it. But I think if you take a look at for me, I actually built a a deck about that and talked to, you know, for for investors. Uh so I think it was guns, germs, and steel that basically kind of uh kind of elucidated, I think, the the the trend. So basically there's in order for the GDP to grow, there's only a few things that can happen. Primarily it's population that drives most of it. Technology can amplify people right and their productivity, but there's no better replacement for growth than the number of people. And he was taking a look at a long digital study of human civilization, right? So industrial revolution, I think, kind of changed it a little bit. That marginal that technological component was much greater, and then there was also a discrepancy of those that actually use technology and countries that didn't. But if you take a long uh the the span of the entire thing, it really is uh human uh population that that uh makes the biggest difference. So then I started thinking, okay, human population, obviously, you know, China and India, Asia as a whole, let's just say, you know, takes a cake there. I think in terms of gap, you know, there was always this thing, right? Opportunity is available anywhere, but just not equally distributed. And if you take a look at the know-how across the world, the know-how as a as a collective human thing, there's a lot of knowledge. But I think whether it's implemented equally in the US and equally in China, I don't think that's the case. Probably in China there's probably a uh there's potential versus in the US, it's always leading, but it's only 300 million. In China, there's still both the population and there's a gap that they have to go. So the US can innovate all they want, but then that just leaves a big gap, I think, of implementation and execution in China. So that was the second factor. And then the third factor was really, I think, um, I think the the the view on AI. So there's a study, and I I haven't seen this paper in a while, but someone did a comparative study between and I'm sorry to be academic, but that's kind of my background. I'm a Chicago guy. We we tend to like to, you know, like academia. There's a study that basically said, okay, what are people's perceptions uh comparing US and Chinese perceptions of AI? And that the US was like, AI is bad, it's gonna take all our jobs, we're all gonna get killed, it's gonna be Armageddon. Chinese perception is this is great, you know, this drives our productivity, we should be, you know, we should embrace it. You know, it was both like interesting. What are your positive uh uh opinions? And you know, USS uh USS less and China's more. And then in terms it also asks the the counter opposite, which is like the negative. Like, are you negative about it? And then Chinese were like, no, we're not negative, and the US are like definitely super negative about it. So I was like, okay, people's perception of AI is also better in in China, right? So they want it to happen. So that means that they're gonna implement it, people will download apps. Because ultimately, when you're downloading an AI app, you are trading your privacy, you're giving data to train models, right? That is, you know, that is the the if they don't tell you that Yeah, that's a deal. It's a deal, that's the deal. You should know that's the deal. If you don't know it, sorry, that's on you, right? But but if you believe that ultimately is a good thing, you'll do it, right? And so I think that positivity, I think, uh made a lot more sense to me and the perception. That's why I think for me it was pretty made much made sense in China. And again, I did a deck eight years ago around that why this is the Asian century, and yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:00

That's interesting that you were this early because I thought too early sometimes. Yeah, because I thought okay, people in China really opened up and become very very open to AI and what's going on when Deep Sea came out because then it was like okay, open source, um, everybody's like contributing to it, and we want to make something happen. We don't have what like the fundings and everything that open AI had open AI had, right? So we just open it up and see how we can like build something out of it, and obviously it was a big shock for like the entire world, basically, where everybody was seeing okay, China is doing something really great, and then the open source model became extremely popular in in China, right? Right. That's very interesting that you saw this already in 2017. No, but to your point. With the fact is, it makes sense, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:51

Yeah, but to your point, I was waiting for that too, because I was like, I've got this theory, you know, I present it to investors, but I don't know, until until until something validates it, I'm just a crazy guy thinking that oh AI is gonna, you know. And so when Deep Seek happened, I was like, okay, this is the moment that I, you know, that I didn't predict that moment, but I was like, it validates a lot of kind of the work and and and my hypothesis.

SPEAKER_01 20:17

So yeah, and everybody was proud of that is happening from China.

SPEAKER_00 20:22

But then you do you know that was also kind of a bit of an anomaly as well. Um because I know some of Deep C so the founder of Deep Seek he he has a hedge fund, right? Essentially, and so he he bought the GPUs at some point. He he had the um the China's largest uh inventory of NVIDIA I don't know whether it was like A200s, but you know, GPUs for his hedge fund to train and and model and to perform better and for his hedge fund. And I don't know what happened, but it was like I think it worked. I mean, he made enough money on the hedge fund, but he was like, okay, we can do something with with this model with these GPUs, and he made the model. So to some degree, it was an anomaly uh that he it was a side hustle to some degree and AI models, a side hustle, but it's also good fortune, and maybe that's what it requires sometimes, right? A stroke of luck uh for that to happen. So it was to your point, I think it was really, really good. Um, yeah. I should I should talk about Deep Seek a little bit more too.

SPEAKER_02 21:23

So so you said the approach of Chinese customers or private persons is different to that in the US. So, how did you see it with startups and startup founders?

SPEAKER_00 21:36

Good question.

SPEAKER_02 21:36

How's their approach to life and business? How different is it from the US?

SPEAKER_00 21:40

Yeah, I I think what I've noticed, I think on the privacy level, it's more willingness to give up the private, like privacy data. So like in Europe, right? You've got GDPR, right? And whether you like GDPR or not, it there it exists, right? And so it just makes, you know, are you willing to give up your data for to the big corporates? Like Google and stuff, you know, and and are you willing or you're not willing to do it? Here it's kind of a given, you know. Sure, why not? Right? Doesn't really matter. And so I think it's just that alignment and difference in thinking about privacy and and your data, right? Um, I think it's different. And because of even that philosophical change, that's a big difference on the AI models because then you can use that data to to train, right? And whether it's like a health startup, right, and using your health records to train a model, or even something as like as simple as, I don't know, maybe a coffee app, you know, that you take pictures of you, yourself, and your uh your coffee, or even uh like a sense time, right? With face tracking, you know, and them them training models on your face and facial structure. I think Chinese, the Chinese population is much less uh opinionated and and concerned about that privacy issue. I think if you were to use health data records in Germany or I know in the UK, people would be up in arms, like even for Palantir now going to the NHS, right? People are like, ah, it's big Palantir, right? It's my records, what are they gonna do with it? You know, that type of thing. So I think that's one thing. I think that difference.

SPEAKER_02 23:12

So my question was more about the entrepreneurs. Yes, like the startups, you you know, how is their approach different from the ones in uh Scandinavia or in in the Baltic countries?

SPEAKER_00 23:23

We talked about that before. I think Chinese people are a lot more pragmatic, right? So I think um, you know, I wouldn't say they they enjoy working. I don't think it's like I think if they had a choice, they wouldn't do the 996, but I think it's they they they're much more pragmatic, and so they're willing to do 996 to make the money to live and et cetera, et cetera. And I think they're just much much more pragmatic about it and just get shit done. Um, you know, I'm gonna offend some European friends, but you know, like European friends, I remember like, oh, in the summer, you know, in the summertime, all right, you know, where are they gonna go? Are they gonna go to Santorini? Are they gonna Bita? Are they gonna go to south of France? Right? I, you know, you always said, and then during the winter, is it Cochemel? Is it, I don't know. Um, yeah, where in the Alps are they skiing on the Italian side or the French side or the German side, right? But here I don't see that conversation as much. I'm not saying it one is good or the other, but I think it's just that culture is different. And uh I think those are some of the kind of that were culture I think is different, and that pragmatism I think is is is extremely different.

SPEAKER_01 24:34

That's that's basically for for China, right? But you also invest in startups all over Southeast Asia, right? Is it also similar, the mentality in other in the other countries?

SPEAKER_00 24:44

I I think Vietnam. I've I've just really, really like impressed about Vietnam. So I really like Vietnam because of that. I think it's funny they've also got that Eastern, you know, communism type of mentality. Um, I wouldn't even say it's like YouTube Europe. I I just think it's more the fact that they didn't, you know, catch up or rise, you know, on that first wave. So they're much more that gap is bigger now, right? They've seen everything on the internet and they're like, we want to do it too. So it's not a communism thing. I think it's just the stage in development. But Vietnam, I think, is very interesting. I think they've got that that really kind of hustle as well. That impresses me, I think, in in Southeast Asia. Indonesia I've heard as well in terms of size, yeah. But in terms of the the people, we didn't we were not fortunate enough to to invest in in any Indonesian founders.

SPEAKER_02 25:36

You had some successful investor stories, some uh I one IPO, I think, one two acquisitions, right? Correct. And uh what were some wrong predictions you made or some failures?

SPEAKER_00 25:48

I have too many wrong predictions. Uh uh, but I have plenty of failures. I try to kind of think long and hard about kind of things, but failures, I think, um I think in terms I don't like to talk about failures in terms of like other startups because you know, look, being a founder is this tough, right? And there's many different reasons why something failed, and it's it's not for me to judge that and their story and what happened because I might have a view and that might be not the truth or the truth. I think for me, I'll talk about my own personal failures. The raising capital, I think, is always very difficult. But I would say to your point earlier about money, I think raising capital here in Asia is difficult because we're not the valley. And so I think and it's not just raising money, but there's a lot of things that I've did when I first came to Asia that I use kind of a Western way of doing things to do, and try to fit them into Asia and it quite worked. It's raising capital, it's leadership, it's management, it's even raising kids to some degree. And so for me, 10 years, 11 years in it, even though I'm Chinese, right? Even though I'm Asian, even though I was born in Hong Kong, I still had to unfuck myself to some degree, right? I had to learn a new way. And I think I'm I feel much more integrated now in a Western way of doing things, but also something that fits an Asian way. And but in and it's funny, like you you speak very good in Chinese. I didn't hear enough. I'm I'm you might be very good too. But I feel like it's funny, Hong Kong to some degree, sometimes China feels alien to us Hong Kong people. And you might wonder why. It's because you know, Hong Kong left. So the people that left China came to Hong Kong, we were very, very separate. And so oftentimes, just seeing Chinese development is very alien and also scary because to some degree they moved on from that historical legacy and became a modern country. Sometimes Hong Kong's too traditional. We're still like stuck. You know how it is. Immigrants are sometimes like even more traditional than the local people, right? Because they hang on to the customs. You know, they're like, we're hardcore Irish, right? We'll always keep our Irish ways. But then the Ireland guys are like, we've moved on from that. Like, we don't do whatever, right? Kilts and whatever when kill people uh with axes. So I think that's Hong Kong. Hong Kong, we're very traditional, custom-wise. And and so having to come back realizing how mainland China is, the the the customs, I've had to marry that with my Western ways and also my Chinese ways, my Hong Kong ways. Now I feel much more comfortable doing business in China. Before when I first came back, I was just like, I don't, I it's not even scary. Well, it's a little bit scary, but I was just like, I don't even know where to start. So I think that's my biggest failure, and I'm still kind of reconciling that and trying to improve that.

SPEAKER_01 28:59

But you somehow managed to get along. So how is what is what is the big difference now in like raising money here? You said this is the one of the hardest parts.

SPEAKER_00 29:11

Yeah, I I think it's uh yeah, I think if if if it's a very specific question on how to raise money, I think now, because raising money is always like it's not a trick, but it it moves all the time. I think now it's about do you want money in Rembi? Do you want US dollars? If it's RB, who has the money? It's usually kind of the governments, and you have to play with that. If you want USD, private individuals, probably it's the Chinese money that have moved out. Is it Hong Kong then or Singapore? How do you talk to them? What do they want? Um, because what they want is very different from Western investors, right? And Western venture investors are a little bit more long-term. Chinese money is actually a lot more short-term. So you have to balance that. Which is that's one of the actually points because Hong Kong money is to some degree a little bit longer term than China Hong Kong, uh Chinese. Because of the development. I'm not saying it's a philosophy, it's a development, you know, thing. Because Hong Kong had, after British rule, had three two or three generations that they preserve wealth. And so they were a little bit more long-term in thinking. China is only first generation, wealthy, maybe second, let's just say one or two. So it's a little bit less long term. And so to answer your question, it's it's more like trying to figure out the incentives and what people want, and trying to understand those incentives and and provide a package that both marries what I want, but also the incentives that matter to them. And and look, and they are very, very different because in a venture scenario, it's a long-term investment. But I cannot guarantee an outcome as much as I want to. And I like to be intellectually honest. I'll do my damnedest to make sure you've got a return and a great return, but also intellectually, there is a chance that there's not right. And so it's making sure that I message it correctly to the LPs and provide that trust, but marrying the interest and the incentives that they want to pursue as well.

SPEAKER_02 31:22

You just said it's very hard to raise money. So, from your point of view, with what kind of product or what kind of service can you offer now to investors uh that it makes it easy to raise money?

SPEAKER_00 31:36

I can only speak to kind of as a venture investor. I think it's uh again, I can I can speak to what what I can speak to now, again, because raising money is always a game and it varies depending, especially now with your politics being as fluid as they are. For now, kind of what is top of mind is how to capture some of that crypto wealth. So in Asia, there's a lot of crypto wealth that is there and how to capitalize crypto wealth to some degree, but again, reconciling that short-termism with long-term investment. It's about how to couch that long-term investment into, you know, with a fund, it could be a seven plus three, right? So you have a seven-year fund, and then next three years after that, we're trying to get exit. So it could be couching that instead of a long-term investment, it's an ecosystem play, right? So we're trying to build the ecosystem around you or for you or something around that, right? Because look, not only could they create crypto with a lot more liquid, they could also put in the bank because the interest rates are high these days, right? So it's kind of maybe coming up with ideas that are a little bit more larger. And then I think the third piece is working with governments more. So for us, we are working with governments to raise funds because they are longer term, they are um sufficiently motivated to think long term and to build an ecosystem. Yeah. So those are kind of the three variations or thoughts about raising money, uh, especially in a venture fund now.

SPEAKER_01 33:17

How do the requirements differ from a government to a private individual?

SPEAKER_00 33:24

It's very, very different. So we've never done it before, which again is is one of my biases coming in. I was like, because in the US, raising money from governments, nobody does that, you know, and and so I I remember the Americans going to Europe, they were like, we don't want to work with governments, fuck the government. But then I already I was like in Europe, I was like, that's that doesn't make sense because the government does play a larger part in Europe. And I think, and to be fair, it actually plays a larger part than we imagine it to. So to answer your question directly first, their longer term, you have to find you know the ecosystem development, you have to be a lot more patient. You can't just say, Hey, I need the cleans of money now, right? Or tomorrow, I needed the money yesterday, right? Doesn't work that way. They've got their long-termness, and you have to understand they have a process, right? They have a process because they don't want to be unfair, right? So if you give me, let's say you're a government worker, you give me money, then it looks like we're best buddies. Even though we could be buddies, we can't look like we're buddies, right? It looks like we have to have a process. So the process really matters a lot. I think that's the biggest difference. Returns matter, but they're not the everything, right? They're not the single criteria. It's the ecosystem development. Are you here for the long term? Do you want to be here for the long term? Are you doing things like podcasts, right? In in in a city, are you trying to promote the city as well, right? So I think that those are kind of um important as well. So it's it's it's it's everything around, I think, the returns and the relationship with the government. That's that's that's key. And to go back to and now that I answer your question directly, I I do want to kind of go back to that bias of of the government. So, so for a long time the US is saying, uh, you know, you know, screw governments, we're private entrepreneurs. That's just a myth. You know, the US likes to have narrers about the loan hero saving, saving the uh the situation, gets the girl, kisses the girl, that type of thing. But if you take a look at venture capital and the tech ecosystem, it was actually brought up a lot by the United States government and DARPA, California State actually helped a lot. So it is an it's not an anomaly. The state does play a large role. Institutions play a huge role for a tech ecosystem, and it's absolutely necessary. It's just the narrative in the US sometimes is skewed towards the private individual hero and the entrepreneur, but it's that's not true in the United States. And if you take a look globally as well, that's not true as well.

SPEAKER_02 36:08

So let's talk a little bit about AI in Asia. It's like a big hype. We had Deep Seek, we had now recently OpenClaw. Everyone is so excited about it here in Asia. But is it just a hype, or is it actually something worth uh having a look at investing money at, you know, like because especially in the LLM world, everything moves so fast. So last year, Deep Seek was a number one. Wow, they can do the same like ChatGPT, but in much uh with much lower cost, right? And now I feel like this year, not so many people, yeah, typical media move. That's right, competition. And people are not talking about Deep Seek as much as they did last year. How do you evaluate this whole situation?

SPEAKER_00 36:54

Great question. And and I think um intellectually I I can't know because it's just to some degree, I can't know because it's it's really hard to anticipate. I mean, it's it's I run um a newsletter called the automated. We have 13,000 subscribers daily. We've done it for this is also about three years as well. And I remember early in the days, I'm like, should we write about AI? It's like daily, is there enough news daily? Like, I don't know, in in two months. I mean, and I've been in AI for a while, right? So I was like, really? Can I could is there enough? And my team was like, yeah, there's enough content. We can write about stuff every single day. And I was like, really? And three years later, we're still writing stuff every single day. So I answered that question, yes or no. I think the the no part, let's go there first, is sorry, yes, is it is it a bit hype? Is there anything is it a big hype? Yes. It's definitely hyped up. There's definitely, you know, part of it is it's the companies trying to raise capital, right? So is in their interest to trying to do that. I think there's also less competing narratives of what's going on. So crypto is no longer there. I think there's also geopolitics come to play because you know, you can compare China and the US with AI. So there's something interesting there. There's a narrative. But on the other hand, I think there's a lot of room to grow for AI. I think what I'm really interested in is the application side. And this is where actually China competes extremely well. I was at an AI governance summit this past weekend, right? So the and so where there were academics talking about how AI should be governed, right? So who governs it, who should govern it, who governs it, who should govern it, and then what countries should play a part in governing it. So you had Indian guys, Chinese guys, American guys, all coming to say and discuss. And it was a great kind of point. And it was one Chinese guy, you know, from Tsinghua, uh Dean Shui, he was basically saying, yeah, the US are very good at models, theory, but the Chinese are extremely, he's a Chinese, right? So he's extremely good at the application level. And that accords with everything I've seen. He was approaching from a policy level, but what we've seen, you know, with our friend at uh RoboTuo, right? Uh RoboX in terms of robots and humanoids. We I was at the hackathon, I covered that in my on my show, and they were just doing stuff with like claws, so it's not just full full humanoids, but you know, partial hardware. So I think and then so I think there's still a lot of legs in terms of the applications, and I'm very, very excited to see that and to see where it kind of goes. And I think there's a lot more innovation there, actually. Um, and I think they'll continue to be. I think what we'll start to see actually, yeah, if I may, I'll I'll talk about two funds that I'm I'm I'm looking to raise. So there's two funds that we're raising right now. They're both called computational culture. One is focused on media and entertainment, and the other one is in space. So I think if you ask me ultimately what trends and thrusts, I think those are the two. So I think media and entertainment, why? Because I think um, one, everyone's going to be a content creator somehow, some way. Um, and you know, we're doing media here because in an age of AI, I think it's so much easier to create content, right? Whether it's your own avatar, whether it's an email, right, than an AI writes, um, it's so much easier. So I think there will be a lot more people doing it. But then the people that will be doing live and real human content, I think will be more of a premium because you see a lot of AI slop. People see a lot of AI slop, but they're willing to pay for the human stuff because that's the real stuff. If you take a look at concerts and entertainment artists, that's the evolution. Back then you paid for CDs and LPs and that type of thing. Now that's gone away. So you that's all for free, but you pay for the concerts, you pay for the merch, right? You pay for the human touch.

SPEAKER_02 41:05

Yeah, I always like people are so afraid of AI artists, but I I always think it will be part of the business. And I actually on my Spotify playlist, I have some AI songs there, and I think it's it's not bad. But I will never be or people will never be hardcore fans of these AI, they just think this song is nice. But if you want to be a hardcore fan of a group, you you are because they have this rock and roll lifestyle because they they do drugs, they have some scandals, they have, and this is the human touch. This is why people like to be fans of people. If you're too perfect, you don't have any scandals, divorce, breakup. People will never be hardcore fans of you, right? So I think there's place for everything in the future.

SPEAKER_00 41:48

I agree. So, so like I, you know, you know, let's let's say this, right? We will have avatars in the AI age, in the age, which we're kind of going to, we'll have avatars doing these podcasts. But then, you know, I see a future age where basically we'll have fans outside watching us doing a live one, they'll pay tickets. I mean, you start to see that anyway, right? You have podcast shows, right? They will pay for to see the the micro. Oh, you know, he's drinking coffee. You know, this coffee is good, must be good, right? Like, oh, let's have his signatures, let's interact. You pay for the interaction and the crap outside of just the content itself. The content will be given for away for free to get you in, and then you pay more for that interaction, right? Again, we saw that with artists. I think we'll see that for for for pretty much anybody, right, in the future. So so I media entertainment, I think that's that's interesting thrust in what we're gonna get to. And then space, I think is very, very interesting um as well because it's equally as broad um in terms of um application, right? So in space, you can have humanoids, right? You can have humanoids, you can have science, you can have material science, right? You have materials that go into space and insulate you and keep you warm. You have obviously science and medicine, right, to keep you healthy and keep you strong. Um, as you're going to space, it also includes food science as well. And then there's also a huge data component, right? SaaS and data component to space as well. Just because space is really, you know, there are kind of startups that are actually about satellites that will provide Wi-Fi, Starlink, provide Wi-Fi, right from space. So space as a as a as a trend is sufficiently broad, and there are that surface area intersects quite well with AI as well. And so those are the two areas that I I think is is pretty interesting.

SPEAKER_02 43:46

You're also talking about fertility. I did.

SPEAKER_00 43:49

Yeah, I invest yeah, I invested, I advised in a startup uh in the fertility space. Okay. Yeah. Do you want to know more?

SPEAKER_02 43:57

Yeah, and one like because we have a big crowd. I guess it's in this in parts of this world, like in Europe for sure. It's like all the developed countries, they they all have the same problem. South Korea is getting it's yeah, it's uh I mean your your wife is half South Korean. So you did your job, right? Yeah, yeah. I didn't jump. She did her job. She did her job, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:19

Just two kids. We need more.

SPEAKER_02 44:21

Yeah, so I I don't have anything, I don't have any kids. So uh yeah, talk us through this topic.

SPEAKER_00 44:27

Yeah, so the the the startup is called Kadoom. It's a uh startup based uh the the scientific team is actually based out of Chandu, and they have a strong collaboration with Sichuan University in in Chandu. And essentially it's it's it's pretty simple. In order to test your sperm, right? Traditionally you had to go to the hospital. Yeah, you know. I did that before. Have you? Oh okay. What are you married? Are you looking at it?

SPEAKER_02 44:52

Yeah, so no, no, no. So uh I was married. And I did it like it in in Germany and in in China. So it's like um, yeah, you go there and then you yeah, kind of like sheepishly in the bathroom. Yeah, it's not the bathroom there, they have like dedicated small rooms. You kind of flip through some yeah, they have a TV, they have a TV there, they have a TV there with with content. With content, yeah. It's just like it's very it's very interesting. It's like soft porn. Yeah, I can imagine.

SPEAKER_00 45:24

So it's like uh German soft porn is much better than yeah.

SPEAKER_02 45:27

I think in Germany you just take your phone.

SPEAKER_00 45:29

Like in Germany, there's no uh no TV. Remember German advertisements at like uh 10 p.m. are fantastic.

SPEAKER_02 45:36

Yeah, I mean Germany is quite open, like you can see like uh this um very um 18 plus NSFW scenes in in TV.

SPEAKER_00 45:48

10 pm call call whatever number number. Slide, slide, slide.

SPEAKER_02 45:57

So um, yeah, so this is uh yeah, you were talking about the process earlier quick. You go there as a as a um yeah, and then then you you do your job.

SPEAKER_00 46:06

You you do your job, and then essentially, so you know, kind of cheapishly, and then a couple weeks later, then you get the the the results. Um pretty good, I have to say. Yeah, yeah. Um strong. So the founder said Lao Shed said, okay, how what if we can do this? You can do it at home. So you went through the process, but he's like, What if we can just do it at home? You know, with a with a camera, with your phone camera, right? And so you can do it, and then in 10 minutes, you know whether you're good or not, right?

SPEAKER_01 46:35

And so you use your phone camera to to get the results correct.

SPEAKER_00 46:41

So so so basically it's a few innovations actually here. So one is you you do do it, you put it on a slide, right? Um, and the liquid there breaks it up. So technically it breaks it up and and amplifies it. The slide is also an innovation, it has to be um thin enough so that it's one, how do I say it? It's one spermatozoid per view. So it's not on top of each other. Yeah, right. So it has to be good enough where it's like separated out, it's magnified. So then the glass that sit there has to be good enough where it's magnified for the phone camera. Because the phone camera isn't the best microscope, right? Yeah, right. So it has to provide enough amplification amplification, multiplication for the cam phone camera. And then the phone camera, but then the technology, the app, has to be good enough to be able to see and use AI to detect the sperm, the sperm count, and the movement. It really there's five factors, really, for the the golden test, but there's really two that really matter. So it's the number and then the speed, the motility, like yeah, whether they move or not. Yeah, whether they move or not. So that's where the AI algorithm comes and judges that and gives you a score to say whether your sperm is good or not. And so that's great. You know, we were like, okay, it works, a lot of partnerships and stuff selling, you know, but we were really thinking about so I really try to help out to think about their their social media campaign and how they grow and how do they make sperm testing great again, right? Because people do have this shy kind of you know thing. And and we think it's it's it's not just sperm health. It's not just like if you want um what we want to make it is is not just sperm health, right? Because that market is way too small. If if you're trying to have a chop, then you look at it. Otherwise, you don't look at it. What we want to do was actually make it so that every guy would do it, right? Because to be frank, I mean every guy does it anyway, you know, ever so often you know rub one out. You might as well test while you're at it. You see your score. But uh what we want to do, we can go into this. Uh what we want to do was make it so common so that you do do it, you test. And maybe if you're a guy, we then offer you solutions to freeze. Right, right. So you say, look, you know, we wanted to make it so cheap where it's like ah for a couple bucks you could freeze it. So your best sperm will happen when you're 20s. It degrades. I mean, for for for if you compare eggs and sperm, sperm is definitely degrades less than eggs, right? Eggs after a certain point, you know, it's it's after 35, it starts degrading very quickly. But sperm, it doesn't degrade us quickly, but but still a 20-year-old sperm is generally pretty good. So what we want to offer was for men, after you test, you have an ability to freeze your sperm so that when you do have kids, you're able to do it and make it as cheap as a cup of coffee, where it's like a no-brainer to do that. So these are the solutions that we want to provide. Um, because we also notice like males and females are delaying the the the choice of childbirth later and later.

SPEAKER_02 50:02

Is there awareness in the in the 20s? Because 20s is all about party and exactly, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 50:07

That's what we really want to do. And the next extension of that to promote awareness was actually sperm racing. I don't know if you saw Nasino.

SPEAKER_01 50:15

Sperm racing. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:17

Yeah, there's there's basically if I think it's called sperm racing. If you go on Instagram, there's actually a a contest, uh uh um social media race called sperm racing. Okay, yeah, take a look. Um, and essentially it's it's basic, it's all fake. So we tried it. We were gonna try it, we're gonna do it for China. Uh look, there's some part of it which is fake. Um, but to get it on a camera and get the sperm to kind of like run a race, it's like a Formula One race and then go around on track. Yeah, you can't really get it to do that. You kind of have to fix some of that. Um, but we were gonna do that um and to promote it, we were gonna we thought it was gonna be a social media hit because you could do like universities racing against each other, you could do different nationalities, like the Olympics of sperm racing, right? The Germans better than the French, right? The French better than the English. For sure, right? So there was a huge competitive element around that um to raise awareness, and then then they would you know hopefully buy the products and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_01 51:17

Funny, we just we were just talking about the happy valley and yeah, yeah, yeah, right, right. Yeah, the horse, the horse racing and betting in Hong Kong.

SPEAKER_02 51:26

I mean, it's a fun topic, and we're making uh making jokes about it, but it's actually a very serious topic for a lot of countries. Like we talk South Korea, it's like going down like crazy. In China, it's a big topic, in in Germany also. That's right.

SPEAKER_00 51:40

So uh so it's that's it's it's 100%. I mean we were I think the reason why we wanted to come up with all the non-serious stuff is because it's so serious of the subject, yeah. And we're like, it's so serious that how to address it, yeah. Like it is so serious that you know it it's maybe too serious. So we wanted to make it more open. Why not test your sperm? Like make sperm tests just as like common as a blood test, right? Yeah, and it's true, like it is pretty simple. I mean, all guys do it every so often, right? So why not make it fun and simple and and and and and promote it because it is such a serious topic. And to go to the serious uh seriousness of it, uh South Korea is is the worst, right? So I think the replacement rate is like 1.2 kids per per family. I think that's the replacement rate of how many kids a family should have. And if 1.2 and 1.6, I think if you get below that, that's when you s you're not replacing the population levels. And Korea is like 0.85 or something, right? And so um all countries will face this issue. Um and it's not it's not an ideological thing, it's not a race thing, it's because any any country that modernizes will inevitably get to that scale because it's just too expensive to have kids. Way too expensive, right? Um and and parents are have to delay that choice later and later because they all want to get set up and have a career and you have more choices and you want to travel and stuff. And so that's a really, really important. I don't see that being solved anytime soon, right? Um it it it's yeah, the they're yeah, it's it's really impossible. So so the only way to do that is to offer more choice technologically for people that have kids. Single moms, single dads, freeze your sperm, do it later. And then and then, you know, again, single moms or single dads, decouple the idea of being married to having a kid, you know, having a kid and then maybe finding a husband or finding a wife, or not, right? So I think you need to decouple that in order for those fertility rates to come up.

SPEAKER_02 53:58

This is not an easy topic. I mean, uh in Asia, most of the societies are quite traditional, especially in China. Like marriage is still uh still a big thing, and um, so I think it take it will take a lot of time to educate everyone to to accept this kind of new family concepts, right?

SPEAKER_00 54:19

I actually ironically, I thought the Chinese market was actually our best one. I don't uh I don't know about you, but you know, I've I've known more Chinese women that are willing to become single women. Oh single, sorry, single mothers.

SPEAKER_02 54:34

Um yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. This is definitely I don't know the numbers, but uh I saw how many do you know? Personally, no. I know some in Germany who who who did it, but um yeah, I mean there are so many women who who say, okay, I focus on my career, I focus on my own life. I don't have to have a man in my life to be happy. I I mostly saw it all saw it online, but I mean I know a lot of um women in Shanghai and all the big cities.

SPEAKER_01 55:05

I've noticed it, especially in China, they're like, oh yeah, I I'm like close to 40, okay, but I really want to have a kid. Yeah, um, I don't care about the man. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But as long as the genes are good, then I've seen a lot. I've seen a lot.

SPEAKER_00 55:20

That's that's that's when we realize I think actually the mark is in China. I I'm sure it's also in the West as well.

SPEAKER_02 55:26

But from from the thought or from can can imagine, I I don't know anyone who actually did it. I know one woman in Germany who did it. Okay, but so I think it still needs some time, right?

SPEAKER_00 55:38

I think so. I mean, I mean it's also like I'm 46, right? So it's it's it's my friend circles, so they're 40s, yeah, you know, so they they have a career, and then that's when they make they make that that that change. If I think if you know, if you're a little bit younger, maybe not. And then also like because you know, it's probably the big cities, right? Like the Shanghai, the Beijing, the Shenzhen's probably will as well. But um, I 100% think it's a trend. I think it is going that way. Um, even Korea is going that way. And look, and it does make sense, right? If you're a girl, yeah, if you're a girl, look, I mean, a husband is different from a father, you know, and and if you can decouple that somehow, you know, it's a choice, it's a good choice. So to answer your question, I just thought that actually China, it it is, even though there is a large tradition for conservative, China to some degree can move, can move pretty fast.

SPEAKER_02 56:34

Yeah, I mean it's it's a big topic, and there's no right or wrong, right? Even like um we also know like growing up with no father, it's also a big issue for uh a lot of kids, right? Uh so um it's it's not very easy, so there's no no very easy, but but like it doesn't mean if you have a husband that you also have a good father, right? 100% on the other hand. 100%.

SPEAKER_00 56:57

Now we're going into the manosphere. Yeah, manaverse.

SPEAKER_02 57:00

Let's let's let's give let's let's talk some business. So you I can go into that. Yeah, yeah. Very complicated. So um you just uh told us that you're actually considering to moving to Shenzhen, moving from Hong Kong to Shenzhen. So well, is this a business decision or uh a little bit of both?

SPEAKER_00 57:18

You know, so so uh my wife and I we were looking at apartments yesterday in Shenzhen, we were looking at Juhai before. So I think a couple of factors. One is it's just the the the higher uh quality of life, right, compared to price. Hong Kong is you know, we live in Hong Kong right now, it's very, very expensive. Shenzhen will get more than double, you know, the value. I think it's also market dynamics in Hong Kong, especially real estate, makes no sense. And so, you know, we're we're paying somebody's rent. Um, but we're getting you know, no I would say no benefit, but very not as much benefit, right? Marginally. And then third, I want my kids to be exposed to China in a meaningful way, right? Not just in Hong Kong, right? That's still very expati in a meaningful way. Look, there's still they're gonna be homeschooled, right? So they're the English curriculum and stuff. And they're all that's their type. I'm very international, I'm very kind of Western-based, but but you know, being able to go out in the city and and then have to speak Chinese, it's forced upon you that everything's around you. I think inevitably they would change and would be more culturally more open to China and I want that for that. I actually, you know, and and you know, because I I think about my kids a lot and raising kids, I didn't want to sp steer towards the manosphere kind of bit, but I do think raising kids, especially in this day and age, is it's very difficult with social media.

SPEAKER_01 58:48

You have your team also then here in uh like how big is your team or how is it?

SPEAKER_00 58:54

Yeah, so we have some some in the UK. So we're distributed anyway, and so UK, Nigeria, uh, Korea. So it's it's it's also we're distributed. So in order to make that life work, we need so optimize my kids um homeschooling for academic academics. Um they have uh exposure to China by living in China. We have a bigger house. And because my my kids are 11 and 7 now, they need more space. So in China we get more space internet connection, then therefore I was just talking to a friend about how to find my way, and we found a way, right? And it's like this very involved process of a server directly to the US, right? So bypass actually a VPN but a server directly to the US, so they've got we've got internet, US based internet, and that way I can work they can get connectivity, and then yeah, I basically just do calls most of the day, but then I'll be closer to Shenzhen where this wonderful podcast is, and then I've got connections there, and then also in Hong Kong, right? So I can go to do meetings in Hong Kong, and then very close to the airports as well when I need to do physical meetings.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:09

Yeah, you were talking about physical AI and all this uh like application-based uh AI now. Uh I think it makes total total sense to be here in Shenzhen, right? Yeah, how much do you interact uh with the robotics companies or AI companies here in Shenzhen? And what what's the big major difference that you see? Shenzhen ecosystem, tech ecosystem compared to other areas in China?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:32

To be frank, I I that's I don't quite know. That's what I'm trying I'm quite keen to find out. I mean, I did a podcast with Robot with uh Tuo to understand kind of what he's trying to build in Robot Valley. I'm trying to learn as well. So I can't compare Shenzhen with the other parts of China. I don't really know. But I do want to know that. I think you know there's a lot to be there. I think with my fund as well, that's a way to learn, right? Because then I can also fund those starters. We're looking to fund starters in Shenzhen, so that's why uh in Robot Valley, because that's space and humanoids, that's kind of where it is. Yeah, so so I'm I'm really excited to learn and just drink a lot of luck and coffee.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:12

Awesome. So I think there will be a lot of overlap. We're also thinking of moving to Shenzhen, so I think we will see each other many, many more times. No, we live in Shanghai. Oh, yeah, oh you you guys are thinking about that. We just came here for you. Oh, right. So um, yeah, it's uh great plan, and we're very excited on what the future will bring to Shenzhen, to Hong Kong, to the whole world, and uh we're very happy that we're in Asia where all the the change happens. It's an exciting time right now, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:44

It is an exciting time. I mean, I mean, Europe is great for life sometimes. Holiday? Holiday. No, is it? I don't know. I don't know for the I'll go to Germany for a holiday, I'll go to like southern France.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:56

Yeah, I never heard somebody who's going to Germany for holidays.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:00

Many Germans are going to Germany for holidays. Even the Germans go to like Spain for holidays. No one goes. People still going to Germany. Yeah. Thank you so much for your insights. It was a pleasure. Thank you. Thank you for having me.