The Exchange

Waleed Al Mokarrab Al Muhairi: How to Build a Conviction-led Investor

• Mubadala • Season 1 • Episode 1

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What does conviction-led investing look like when the responsibility spans decades, not quarters?

Waleed Al Mokarrab Al Muhairi is Mubadala’s Deputy Group CEO and a key voice behind the institution’s long-term investment strategy. In today’s episode of The Exchange, he reflects on his journey alongside Mubadala’s evolution from its early foundations into a globally active investment institution.

Waleed breaks down what conviction-led investing looks like in practice when responsibility spans decades, not quarters. He discusses how long-term purpose guides decision-making beyond short-term trends, why discipline and patience matter when deploying capital at scale, and how people, partnerships, and ideas act as Mubadala’s true capital multipliers — from Abu Dhabi to global markets.

Episode Chapters:
(00:00) Conviction-led investing
(02:05) Long-term responsibility
(05:10) Mubadala’s global evolution
(09:30) Playing the long game
(14:05) Discipline and patience at scale
(18:40) Navigating market volatility
(23:10) Partnerships and people
(28:15) Leadership and trust
(33:20) Building enduring institutions
(38:40) Legacy and long-term impact

Listen to the full episode here:
Spotify: https://bit.ly/4sJ4TPB
Apple Podcasts: https://bit.ly/4jGcslU
Watch on YouTube: https://bit.ly/49A6zC9

Waleed Al Mokarrab Al Muhairi:

We are conviction-led investors. We have to really believe in something. To either invest in something, stay in something, or even sell it. We are not momentum investors. You're able to take an almost generational view.

Mustafa Al-Rawi:

I'm your host, Mustafa Al-Rawi, and I'm very pleased to welcome to the exchange Waleed Al Mokarrab Al Muhairi, the deputy group CEO of Mubadala. Walid, great to see you.

Waleed Al Mokarrab Al Muhairi:

It's great to be here. Thank you.

Mustafa Al-Rawi:

I'm looking forward to this discussion. I am too. In particular, because um when I when I look at your your career and your association with Mubadala, it goes back to the very, very early days. It does. Dare dare I say even before Mubadala began.

Waleed Al Mokarrab Al Muhairi:

You you dare, yes.

Mustafa Al-Rawi:

So you studied in the US, Harvard, Georgetown, started out in McKinsey, and then joined the UAE Offset's uh program bureau, in many ways the precursor to Mubadala.

Waleed Al Mokarrab Al Muhairi:

Yes.

Mustafa Al-Rawi:

And and and so those experiences, when you look back, how do you feel that they shaped or influenced those early days at Mubadala for you?

Waleed Al Mokarrab Al Muhairi:

You know, it's uh it's it's interesting. So as I as I reflect back on kind of the very, very earliest days of of my experiences, starting with with the offsets group and then obviously growing into Mubadala. I think, you know, when you're younger, you tend to put an oversized emphasis on things like education and where you studied and where you worked. And you know, I'll start from the end. What I've come to realize after doing this for 25 years is that, you know, those things, those things matter a little bit, but they tend to matter a lot less than what you think. Look, from my from my perspective, I feel very privileged that I was able to attend Georgetown. And I feel privileged that I was able to continue to uh to study at uh at Harvard and have my first job at McKinsey. I I think the most important thing from me, the most important theme that weaves through, I think, some of those different things is okay, academic achievement is is important, but it's only important because it's a signal of something. And that signal, which is something that I carry through what I do here at Mubadala, is about discipline and being able to obviously get the best out of your surroundings, whether they be academic or work or whatever else it might be. So where I went to school doesn't really matter, other than I studied with great people, I studied with great professors, and I learned how to figure out what I want and move towards that objective as a young man. As I then became a kind of early employee and a young executive, so here we transition to things like McKinsey, then, you know, there that was that was eye-opening for me. It was eye-opening for me because I had never really worked in an environment like that before. And I'll tell you what it taught me. It taught me, number one, uh structured thinking may be one of the most important tools that a person can develop over time. And the second uh important thing that it taught me, just through the difficulty of my first couple of years at McKinsey, is that you know, these skills, nobody is born with them. They are trained. And that's where I look back to you know my time at university and and at graduate school, and I drew upon kind of the this point about discipline. Once somebody sits you down and tells you, what do you don't feel bad that you may not be a good public speaker? Don't feel bad that you may not be able to take a complicated idea and drill it down into something that is a little bit more simple or apply a framework that may not seem obvious to you. At the end of the day, it's about figuring out that it's a learned skill and putting in the time. And by the way, I tell my kids this too. So, so it's about putting in the time and just understanding that you have an objective and that you need to be disciplined enough and objective-oriented enough to make sure that you know you get to where you want to get to. And that is by far the most important thing that I learned at McKinsey. But I learned something else too. Put this again in the category of trainable skills and not being very good at them when you start. I learned how to both receive and give feedback. Such an important skill. It's it's unbelievably important. Because think about what we do. You know, I'm in the people business, right? So even though I work for an investment firm, at the end of the day, our real output is great people. Because I firmly believe that if you have great people, the returns will follow. And so if you focus on that point, one of the most important kind of processes and skills that we have is developing talent. And the best way to develop talent is to both practice receiving and practice giving feedback. And again, nobody's born able to do this well. It's a repetitive task that you need to keep doing with a little bit of self-awareness to figure out how you get better at it. And so if you put those two things together, you know, it's called clarity of thought, organized thinking, discipline over oneself, learning enough about yourself to be of use as you as you kind of train other people and learn about what what inspires you and what keeps you going. Once you put all those things together, you're ready for for the real work. And so while I'm very thankful and grateful for the time that I spent at McKinsey, I only spent two and a half years there. And so those two or two and a half years, or whatever the exact amount of time was, was a great precursor to what I always considered to be my my first real formative job, which was at at the UAE Offsets Group. So today it's you know, before before it was called Toazan, it was then the program bureau, before that it was the UAE offsets group when I joined. And the UA Offsets Group was fantastic. It was fantastic because for the first time in my life, I was working with a very small group of people. And uh, you know, we could all we would all fit in a room this size. And what was great about it is, and I remember those days, we we we got to know each other really well, both in the good times and the bad. And unlike today, where where you're working for a large institution, where you're working with with with hundreds of people, you know, we all knew each other. We we would all interact in a way that you can't interact today. We were a little bit more casual, we would call out, and remember, we were younger too, and and and maybe maybe a little bit more um excitable back then. Nobody would describe me as excitable today. But back then I was. And so back then, you know, you could sit around a table and you would yell when somebody was wrong, and we would have heated discussions in in the best possible sense of that. And you know, looking back at uh at the time that I spent in the offsets group, again, very, very grateful for that time because that's where I met Khaldoon, my current boss, that's where I met Carlos, that's where I met uh Philip Haddad and Abdullah Huri and the people who who you know in many ways helped uh help me become the person that I am today. And we still maintain great friendships, and all of them are kind of around in some in in some shape, way, or form in the ecosystem. But I loved being part of a small group of people who could really push each other, who could learn from one another. And remember, I came from a consulting background, McKinsey, right? And so there we were great analytical thinkers, but you know, the end product, at least back then, was a PowerPoint deck that you would then give to executives. And so now, you know, I became one of those executives, right, who would receive those PowerPoints. And so now our job wasn't to create the PowerPoint, our job was to execute and do something with real impact. And boy, did that energize me. It was it was something that I found to be transformative in my journey as an executive. Because then I realized, yes, I uh uh I love the analytical kind of part of what my previous job was, and and I continue that till today. But what really inspired me and what I what I felt was really very formative, and what really kept me going, was this short, relatively short cycle time between analysis, figuring things out, and then being given the unbelievable privilege. We were 24 or 25 years old at the time, the unbelievable privilege of being able to execute and do things and then see the results of that, you know, in a short period of time. And it's unbelievably gratifying. And you know, I tell I tell some of the younger people who I mentor, I tell them, you know, figure out what inspires you. Figure out what keeps you going. Because we work hard in an institution like Mubadala. I mean, you work hard everywhere, right? But but ultimately you want to make sure that you really enjoy what you do. And and if you figure out what inspires you, and if you figure out more importantly, why you are reacting that way, in my case, to impact, then in many ways it will make your career journey that much more satisfying. And along the way, you'll learn things about yourself and you will you will you will pick up things that I am convinced make you a better executive, a better leader, a better friend, a better, a better person.

Mustafa Al-Rawi:

I mean, lit listening to you talk about that journey, both in terms of your career and and Mubadala and and as a person, it it seems that there was this emphasis very early on, um, you know, when you were at UA offsets and then Mubadala of impact and human beings being a very important part of what you were doing. Twenty years plus on from that, you know, where the original vision of that impact, of prosperity, of ensuring for future generations that there is that that prosperity for them, do you still see that that that original vision has has stayed, is is still there?

Waleed Al Mokarrab Al Muhairi:

It's it's even stronger. Uh and maybe going back a little bit, I mean I mean look, uh uh and I'll say this again, and I don't want to sound repetitive, but uh at the end of the day, we're in the people business, right? And so so it you know, I I had talked about my journey uh up until the UA offsets group. Mubadala was was different. Mubadala was different uh because we had this sense of purpose that was a little bit different because we knew that we were being given a chance. Turned out, looking in hindsight, the chance of a lifetime, where we would be able to translate everything that we had done from a UA offsets perspective uh into real impact. And impact is a word, but but let me make it concrete for you. So, you know, back then the focus of Mubadala was business building, was the creation of national champions to diversify Abu Dhabi's economy. Okay? And and we have we have a good number that have since grown. You know, all these all these companies, when you look back in hindsight today, you know, started off as PowerPoint presentations where somebody had an idea and raised their hand and said, hey, should we do this or we need to look at this, or this might be a great way to diversify our economy. Remember, when we started this journey, Abu Dhabi's economy was still predominantly skewed towards uh uh uh hydrocarbon production. And and and our chief mandate was not only to diversify our economy, but also to uh to you know train people and make sure that we would be able to uh staff up these industries that we would that we'd create. And so out of uh out of that journey, just just think about the national champions that we have today. We have uh Emirates Global Aluminum, which today is the fifth largest aluminum producer in the world. And so that that came out of that through the building of the smelter in uh in Buddha, in addition to the merger with uh with our partners in the bay. So I think that's number one. We had a satellite business, which today is called Space 42, but back then it was called Yesad, because it was then merged with with a company called Bayanat. And a real, real kind of leader in imaging in in the data analytics surrounding uh uh space. And and it was really quite prescient because today everybody talks about space. Look at SpaceX, look at Blue Origin, look at uh I mean, space dominates both both economics and the media, and everybody's inspired by it. But you know, our first foray in space was in in communication satellite, right? And and so we created a business that today has evolved into Space 42. El Dar. So Aldar today is the largest real estate developer in in Abu Dhabi selling a staggering 30 billion in sales every year, which is a staggering number. I remember when Aldar started. I mean, I remember the original PowerPoint presentation and having looked through that and look really hard today. Masdar in the uh in the clean energy and renewable energy front. I mean, you know, we lose we lose sight of this stuff, but but what keeps us humble today is realizing things like, well, somebody had the idea of creating Masdar, which today is a clean energy champion and may be one of the largest uh uh clean and renewable energy investors on earth. And here you're talking about about an economy that was primarily a hydrocarbon producer at the time. Think about the foresight that that entails. To say, listen, we want to maintain our share of the energy pie because we know that there's going to be a shift. We can feel it, right? We have the conviction that something is changing. And so when that team raises their hand and says, we have this conviction, and you make the case for it, obviously with deep analytical uh uh uh work and capability and so on and so forth, but then you say, you know, renewable energies, solar, wind, so on and so forth, uh are going to be important energy sources going forward. And more importantly, we as Abu Dhabi would like to maintain our share of the energy kind of makeup, or pie, if you will, then again, you look back and you say, wow, what a powerful idea. And by the way, it took it took guts and it took it took you know a good amount of convincing to be able to create it. But once you do, look back and look at this national champion that we have, that we have today that all of us are so so very proud of. And we literally have dozens of examples like that. And so uh uh by the way, another one that's very close to my heart is today called M42, which is a healthcare uh uh set of companies that today is the first company that we know of that combines first-class healthcare provision with artificial intelligence, uh, data processing, drug discovery, so many different elements. And it started out with the with the with the realization that we wanted to create, in addition to an already well-functioning public sector system from a healthcare perspective that already existed in Abu Dhabi, we wanted to create a set of businesses that would both make money, but would also define a new standard of service provision in uh in Abu Dhabi and eventually in in the greater UAE. And so there I just listed for you five national champions. Okay? We have aerospace ones as well. I mean, and and and the list keeps going. But but turning ideas with great people built on conviction with discipline that ultimately result in profitable uh uh uh companies that that help redefine the economy of where you live that have tangible impact. Now, when when when when I go for a checkup or when I have to go for a procedure or whatever it may be, it is through one of the healthcare institutions that I had a small part in in helping create. I'm very proud of that. And I know many people are proud of that, you know, share that pride. That pride is so important, right? And so, and by the way, that pride also makes you want to work harder because because it's it's it's a very it's a very kind of a self-reinforcing loop. Because if you get that very positive feedback, then you want to make it better. And you know, good enough is never good enough. And you want service provision to be excellent, you want outcomes to be as good or better than what you see in the West. I mean, I mean you have so many of these subsidiary things that happen. And then if you think about how great that is, I found that so inspiring. And I know that Mary many of my colleagues share share share share the same feeling. And so given such a strong start, for Mubadala, and then and then now looking to where we are today, on the one hand, you see that those foundational themes still exist. How we do it, the form has changed. But we never lost sight of our founding principles, about what makes us, I think, so excited to do what we do, and ultimately so proud of uh, you know, to work in in both Abu Dhabi and in a sovereign wealth fund that today is so widely respected, where we have global reach, where many folks want to be our partner, and we are considered one of one of the world's best investors in our peer set.

Mustafa Al-Rawi:

So the national champions you listed, and I think when when you when you talk about, for example, clean energy and the other industries, given that the Abu Dhabi was such a leader in in oil and gas, it's almost counterintuitive at the time to say, hey, let's go spend this time and this money in building these other industries rather than doubling down on what we're doing really successfully. And it's almost as if you had to be contrarians, you know, from the very beginning. And you talk about, you know, investment and the investment culture that you've built over the years. So, how how do you keep that sort of contrarian essence, if you like, when you're so big, when you're so successful in terms of your investment philosophy, to ensure that going forward you're you're making those counterintuitive decisions that are going to put you in a strong position later?

Waleed Al Mokarrab Al Muhairi:

So, so i i it's a great question. So we are conviction led investors. So we have to we have to really believe in something to either Invest in something, stay in something, or even sell it, by the way. So all of it is based on kind of this core belief that we have. But core belief, this conviction, doesn't just come from somebody having a great idea. It comes through the interplay of dialogue and multiple opinions, many of which should be and ought to be contrarian, that hopefully reinforce that the conviction is the right one. And by the way, even in that process, it doesn't always mean you're right. Right? So at the end of the day, that that that contrarian element is part of what makes us so strong. Because I think I think we have created a culture. And I will and I will keep coming back to this. You know, Mubadala is a great place to work. Mubadala is a great place to work, not just because we are good at what we do, but because we have fantastic people. And even more important than that is that is that those people work to help create a culture that I think is is distinctive and outstanding. And part of that culture, you know, when you think about uh uh about uh you know some of our values, whether it's accountability or or integrity or whatever else, you know, it might be partnership, so on and so forth. I think that creates the safe space. It creates both the safe space, but also the drive, the the imperative that says, okay, well, you you have a great idea, let's test it. And the way that you test it is by you know arguing the counterfactual, right? Or being contrarian. One of the things that that you know we talk about in the investment committee is, you know, it's not enough to invest looking backwards, right? Looking backwards gives you things like track record, it gives you things like where the world has been. But it doesn't always tell you where the world is going. And so part of part of what makes our job so interesting is that when you invest and when you are deploying capital that is built on conviction, what you're really doing is you're trying to take all the data that you have looking backwards into the past, but you're really forming a conviction, uh conviction, a belief about what's going to happen in the future. And you do that with imperfect data, right? If we all knew the future, then it wouldn't be a particularly difficult job. But since we don't, we have to pick different threads and we have to create a culture and a set of processes that encourage in the best possible way debate, you know, analysis, just trying to forecast what's going to be important going forward. And I think we do a reasonably good job at it. Uh uh, maybe understating it. I think we do a pretty good job at it when you look at our returns. And and that has been the basis for how we deploy capital for a decade or more. And I think it served us really well.

Mustafa Al-Rawi:

So I think it's hard to argue with the track record, but also a global financial institution like yourself is is is not immune to some of the wider trends and the and the changes and the disruptions that we've seen, both in terms of opportunities but also challenges. So those convect convictions, what what's the your leadership approach when those convictions are tested by real-world crises, problems that happen that we that you don't predict? You know, what those values that you mentioned are those those that keep you steady through those times when those convictions are, in at least the short term, tested heavily.

Waleed Al Mokarrab Al Muhairi:

Values are always uh the the bulwark by by by which we kind of measure ourselves, right? They steady us. Right. And and I think uh you know, a couple of observations. I think I think number one, we we are not momentum investors. We don't time the market. So by vi by by the very definition of the fact that that we are a sovereign investor, which has given us the the the leeway and the ability to invest over long periods of time, you're able to take a an almost generational view. Okay, and I'll tell you what I mean by that. So when you look at traditional private equity, which which, by the way, so so we share a lot of similarities because we have a private equity business. But oftentimes what what you see is that you know they deploy through funds. Those funds have uh set lives. Those set lives, even though they can be extended, will force certain actions. So at some point, you you know, I'll sit with partners and they'll say, Oh, you know, I wish I didn't have to sell this asset, but I have to because I have to return cash to my investors. So while going through the entire life cycle is is important from a discipline perspective, we don't share that same kind of impetus. It doesn't drive us, right? And so we're we're not under any kind of uh uh uh set time period from an investment perspective. So if we have a great business that is throwing off cash, that is performing, that has a great management team, those are businesses that you want to hold on to. Those are not businesses that you want to sell at year five or year seven or year nine or whatever, whatever kind of the initial uh uh business case or investment committee case kind of would dictate. And since we don't feel that pressure, again, because our shareholder as a sovereign has given us that space, right? If we didn't have that space, we we wouldn't we wouldn't be able to act like that. But because they have given us that space, then we're able to pursue kind of through the cycle investing. Cycles are a reality. You can't avoid them, we don't seek to time them. But what we what we want to make sure that we do is that we don't invest around particular events. Like I said, we're thematic and we recognize that everything is a cycle. Things will go go up and things will go down. But as long as you maintain conviction, and again, conviction doesn't stay the same over long periods of time. It's really important that we keep questioning ourselves, right? And so we have a process where we re-underwrite and test our convictions. Are they still valid? Has something changed? Have we learned something by by holding on to a particular asset or making investments according to particular themes that have caused us to have a change of heart or incorporate more data into that decision and have a little bit more clarity of thought and insight? And it's happened. It's happened many times. But but but having all those different ingredients, so having a shareholder that gives you that breathing room and says, you know, we want you to actually look at things almost intergenerationally, number one. Number two, keep a good business if it's if it's good. And and if if if if you have the conviction that it's going to continue to outperform over time. But number three, uh, you know, don't be don't be don't be content in the sense that uh always challenge yourself and re-underwrite your belief systems, right? Did you miss something? You know, keep challenging yourselves. And if all of those things come out in the green, if you will, then you just invest through the cycle and the returns will come. And I feel very uh, you know, I say that, no pun intended, with a lot of conviction. I but I believe that. And and uh it's it's a form of investing that I think uh that I think has paid off for us over over you know now the 25 years that we've been in existence.

Mustafa Al-Rawi:

You you're describing um the a lot of patience in that process. And and I'm reminded by what you said earlier when you talk, you described a group of of 20-something professionals starting out with a butler. So that it there's there seems to be a natural uh tension between those two situations.

Waleed Al Mokarrab Al Muhairi:

Well, I don't know, I don't I don't know, I don't know if it's tension, but but but I can tell you, you know, as a 20-something year old, so as a maybe 27, 28-year-old, I was not patient. I mean, you you wanted everything yesterday, and and we still see that. I think uh I I think one of the things that I've learned is not to confuse patience with contentment and being comfortable, right? So so yes, we are patient, and I take pride in that, and that is a that that's a value that I like and it makes us distinctive. But I can assure you we're not content. We don't we don't just sit and wait for things to happen. So so I think our best teams are those that are forward-leaning, can anticipate either changes or shifts in trajectory. If things don't go our way, again, it's the best teams and the best executives that are those that kind of jump in there and roll up their sleeves and make whatever changes they need to make, and again, go through that process of re-underwriting and building that conviction again and again. So, so patience does not equal contentment, and it certainly doesn't equal comfort. Moving on to a either just a slight tangent, which I think is important. One of the things I've learned about myself and and that I try and counsel some of my colleagues here in Mubadala about, especially, especially some of the younger folks who I work with, is one of the most important things that that one needs to do. And if they're unable to do it themselves, work with somebody who will do it for you, which is help ease you out of your comfort zone. It's really important. That's how you learn. That's how you learn as a human being, as an executive. And so, you know, having those new experiences that you might not initially gravitate to because of personality, because of what you know about yourself, oftentimes end up being some of the best learning experiences that we have. And they've helped me tremendously in my journey. I mean, if I look back, you know, first, I I always I always start by being thankful. And I'm always thankful because, you know, i i it's not a given. And it's very easy when you are when you are a leader in an organization like Mubadala to say, oh, I would have ended up here, you know, no matter what. All outcomes lead to the same, you know, it's the world doesn't work like that. I know that somebody took a chance on me when I was when I was you know a young 20-something who felt that they knew everything and was you know super excited about about changing the world and changing Abu Dhabi. And so I'm thankful because somebody took that chance. And so the way that that that I think about that today is I give people chances, right? That's how I pay back, right? That's that's really important to do. And I tell people that, right? So I think that's that's number one, just from a from a personal realization and journey perspective. But then number two, it's you know, I've worked with wonderful people, uh, many of whom are uh you know the leaders of of of different industries here in in in Abu Dhabi today. And I and I just look back and I uh and I reflect, and I know that one of the reasons why it's been it's been such a great experience for me is because somebody always, maybe at the wrong time, maybe at the right time, said, Wait, you know, you've been doing this for for a couple of years, you're getting a little too comfortable. Boom, let's go do something different. It's not like I asked for it. It's not like I wanted it. I didn't know if I wanted it or not. You know, and there's always an adjustment period. But as I look back, every single one of those experiences, and it's probably happened five or six times in my career, have been formative, and we've I've learned from them, and they've made me a better person, which is great. And so, you know, the advice that I give, you know, some of our younger executives is it's okay, sometimes you can't do it yourself, right? Kind of push yourself out and create that opportunity, but find somebody who will create that opportunity for you and who will push you when you need to be pushed, because that will really be formative. And and and if you're able to learn from it, you will be very thankful for that, I think, uh, I think over time.

Mustafa Al-Rawi:

And looking forward when when you think of the future and where you're gonna be five, ten, fifteen years from now. What do you like most about those thoughts that are coming to your mind? Is it you don't know how you're gonna be pushed out of your comfort zone next? Is that is that what's the thing that that really gets you going?

Waleed Al Mokarrab Al Muhairi:

So so now it's a little different because now I've learned how important that is. So now I will push myself out of out of out of my comfort zone. And and and so since I'm able to do that, you know, it it allows me to learn in in different ways. And I am constantly learning. It is it is so important to do that. Uh I'll give you an example. So, you know, two years ago I knew nothing about artificial intelligence, right? But you could feel that it was you know, it was a it was an important force. Now you look at where Abu Dhabi is, and you are you are forced to learn. You know, I'm not I'm not deeply conversant in in AI, but I know enough to use it every day to try and incorporate it in my job, to use it as a vehicle for change for Mubadala, for the institution that I work for, and use it as almost a force multiplier. Right? And so that that didn't just happen now. That has happened multiple times. You know, as you learn about different areas, as you learn about how to manage people differently. Again, whatever it is, get out of your comfort zone, whether it's a new subject matter, whether it's about doing something a little bit differently, whether it's about speaking to people in a slightly different way, wherever you are in the organization, it's important to do that because that's the only way you get better. And eventually you get to a point where you're able to do that yourself. And if you're able to do that yourself, great. You become a lifelong learner. If you are a lifelong learner and are self-aware, I think you're you're gonna be happy. And more importantly, I think you're gonna have a you're gonna have a great work kind of set of experiences.

Mustafa Al-Rawi:

Does the same apply to Mubadala's portfolio and investments? If you're looking back from the vantage point of 20 years from now, what will will the portfolio's evolution also tell a similar story, do you think? Or do you do you hope that that will be the case?

Waleed Al Mokarrab Al Muhairi:

I think they do. So I think I think all our businesses and I think our portfolio as a whole, in many ways, is a reflection of some of the some of the things that I was talking about earlier. So again, it's never it's never perfect, right? And it's never a straight line. But starting as a thematic investor, so so building these beliefs and building these convictions about where you think the world is going, allows you to take risk in a particular way and allows you to invest in a particular way. Let's take a step back. Remember, at the beginning of this conversation, when we were talking about the earliest days of Mubadala, we were talking about a business builder where our measure of success was not just making money and creating a return for our shareholder, but was diversifying the economy of Abu Dhabi. Right? Today, Mubadala is quite different. Mubadala is much larger, it is a it is an institution. But if you boil it down, Mubadala does three things. Number one, Mubadala is a direct investor. The UAE business building part is still a really important part of that. Okay, but it's also a part of that. The rest of the direct investing uh entails things like private equity, which is a big business for for Mubadala, uh, our real assets business, which is both real estate and and infrastructure, our credit platforms that we have created. And so these are the these are a way of building conviction and deploying capital with partners, but directly into businesses and assets and platforms that you create. So that's one part of this. But another part of Mubadala is is almost the direct opposite of that, but is such a great fit and complements it so well, which is our endowment business, our indirect business. It's called the the uh Abu Dhabi uh investment council etic. And uh think of an endowment like Harvard or Stanford or Yale or whatever, whatever, whatever one you you you know pops to mind. And and really success there is built on building a, you know, what we call a policy portfolio, which is a view of where the markets are going to go within a certain set of risk parameters, and then allocating capital uh to managers, so to funds and so on and so forth, uh, to try and beat that by by a set number of uh of percentage points, which is great. So that's a great business. And by the way, incredibly successful, very disciplined, and very, very good at what they do. And then the third part of what Mubadala does is we manage capital on behalf of third parties. We have a business called Mubadala Capital. We own uh and and helped create a business called MGX. MGX is our AI investment vehicle. And Mubadala Capital is an alternative asset manager that today is raising its seventh fund, that has uh 81 LPs at last count, and where Mubadala's capital only makes up 30% of the capital that's being managed. And there, you know, Mubadala Capital manages capital on behalf of family offices and high net worth individuals and institutions that are global in nature. And what a tremendous business. And so that's that may be a long way of describing that, yes, we started in a particular, in a particular place, but uh the values, the culture, the leadership allowed us to take calculated risk built on conviction that then created what we have today. And and you know, if if I was asked to say back then what Mubadala was going to look like 25 years in the future, there is no way I would have said it would it would turn into what we have today. Because by every metric and and and just by just by how I feel about Mubadala, it's exceeded uh again, every measure of success from a size perspective, from from the type of employees that we're able to attract from the employees who have actually left us and done wonderful things outside of the Mubadala ecosystem, and we count as as part of our alumni to the set of businesses that we have either incubated or invest in or or or or manage or whatever it might be. And we're an institution that rewards the right kind of risk taking, right? And I say that very deliberately. Again, it's risk taking built on conviction against a backdrop of discipline, which then translates into a certain tolerance for risk. But once you check all those different boxes, then you are given the autonomy to go ahead and work and uh and and your measure of success is the return that you're able to generate, the partnerships that you're able to forge, again, built on the values that we hold so dear, right, and are so important to us and are so foundational to what makes Mubadala successful. Nobody is asked what we worry about. Because that's an important question, right? And I reflect on a lot. So, do I worry about losing money? I don't like losing money, but I don't worry about it. These are they're they're different things. Right. I don't like it because because if our system works and because I'm also competitive. I don't like losing money, which you wouldn't want for for an investor. But I don't worry about it. And the reason I don't worry about it is because I think we have great people underpinned by a good culture. Maybe the best culture I've ever seen. Okay. And and and that's built on leadership that I think is enduring, that is consistent, and that translates into ultimately performance. And so I worry about the opposite of that. So I worry about our culture as we get large, as we get more complicated, as we get given more responsibility. I worry that our culture will not be as strong and will not be as distinctive as what it is today. And ultimately that matters because, like I said really early on in our discussion, we're in a people business. And the world has no shortage of really smart people. There's a lot of them. They're everywhere. What is harder to find, and what I hope we're doing a good job cultivating and attracting, are smart people underpilled by great values, who will not compromise those values, who are working towards a shared purpose and help build our culture in a way that we have we have defined. And so if we have that, then I don't worry at all. But if we lose one element of that, then that's that's that's something that I think we'll need to kind of jump on and make sure that we uh we address very quickly. I think the future is very bright for Mubadala. I uh I feel very thankful and privileged to have been part of its journey. I don't know what the next 25 years of Mubadala are going to look like. I I will almost certainly not be here for the next 25 years, but I am very grateful to have been given the opportunity that I've had to have served for the first 25 years of Mubadala's uh uh journey. And uh and I'm just proud of all the work that we do every single day.

Mustafa Al-Rawi:

Waleed Al Mokarrab Al Muhairi, we're grateful to you.

Waleed Al Mokarrab Al Muhairi:

Thank you. Thanks for having me.