How AI and Identity Are Reshaping Law Careers | Trial Lawyer View Ep. 85

Is AI making lawyers lazy, or is refusing to use it putting firms at risk of being left behind?

In this episode of Trial Lawyer View, host Jason Lazarus speaks with Holly Cope, Co-Founder and Head of Marketing at The Global AI Skills Community for Lawyers, about how artificial intelligence is reshaping the legal profession faster than most lawyers realize. Holly shares what she is seeing firsthand from law firms around the world, why fear and resistance are holding firms back, and what practical adoption actually looks like inside modern practices. This episode explores AI through the lens of operations, leadership, ethics, and long term firm viability.

KEY TAKEAWAYS

• “If you're not using A.I., it's crazy because it's literally the best way to work more efficiently.”
• “You're actually at a disadvantage if you're not using it.”
• “The law firms that are not using AI today are going to be replaced by the firms that are using it.”
• “It doesn't mean that lawyers get replaced by AI. It means that you're going to get left behind.”
• “I think A.I. has democratized the legal industry.”
• “Resistance comes down to the culture of a law firm.”
• “Allowing 20% of billable time to be used on AI experimentation incentivizes adoption.”
• “Knowledge is everywhere. Having extra knowledge is simply not enough anymore.”
• “AI is absolutely revolutionizing the legal industry.”

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Trial Lawyer View is a podcast for personal injury lawyers and legal professionals who believe that great verdicts are only part of the equation.

Hosted by Jason Lazarus, the show focuses on what happens behind the scenes of elite trial firms. Each episode features conversations with trial lawyers, firm leaders, and industry experts who have lived the work of building, operating, and scaling successful personal injury practices.

We go beyond marketing tactics and courtroom strategy to examine leadership, operations, and the decisions that protect outcomes after settlement. This is practical, peer-driven insight for firm owners who want to build stronger operations, lead with clarity, and deliver better results for both clients and teams.

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Transcript

0:00

I saw a post and a lawyer posted saying Whoever's using A.I. to help them with cases or whatever is lazy. And I was like, No, if you're not using A.I., it's crazy. That is Holly Cole, co-founder and head of marketing of the Global AI Skills Community for Lawyers and a leading global voice on AI and legal innovation. She challenges one of the most persistent myths in the profession and reframes AI as a competitive advantage rather than a shortcut. So many lawyers were scared about A.I. and wanted to learn about how to use it. So I thought, okay, let's create like a training for lawyers. The misconception passions that I hear are many rather than reacting to fear. Holly built a global learning community to help lawyers understand AI impractical, ethical and profession driven ways. Her work comes directly from listening to lawyers who knew change was coming but did not know where to start. By the end of this conversation, you will learn why AI is transforming the legal profession faster than most lawyers realize and what skills will matter most in the years ahead. I'm Jason Lazarus and this is Trial Lawyer Review. Welcome to Trial Law Review the show for legal professionals. You know that great client outcomes are only part of the job in that how a firm operates behind the scenes matters just as much as what happens in the courtroom. In each episode, we speak with trial lawyers, firm leaders and industry experts who have lived the work of building and operating successful personal injury practices. We move past theory to examine leadership, operations and the choices that shape stronger practices and better client outcomes. I'm your host, Jason Lazarus. Let's get into today's conversation. I'm curious, from your perspective, what's the single biggest misconception? Lawyers still have about AI and how is that holding things back in terms of utilizing it to advance the profession? I think probably by the time this podcast episode comes out, the misconceptions probably will have changed because I think a year ago I heard one crazy. In fact, I saw a post and a lawyer posted saying Whoever's using AI to help them with cases or whatever is lazy. And I was like, No, I actually can't believe that they said those thinking. In fact, if you're not using AI like it's it's crazy because it's literally the the best way to work more efficiently. But not only that, I think so many law firms and lawyers and consultants and people within the legal industry are using it that you're actually at a disadvantage if you're not using it. I think after I mean, you mentioned the Global AI Skills Summit, which I organized, particularly for the reason that when I was talking to people on my podcast, I was finding that so many lawyers were scared about AI and wanted to learn about how to use it. So I thought, okay, let's create like a training for lawyers. The misconceptions that I hear are there's so many, but probably the biggest one is that it'll take my job or it'll replace me or something like this. But then again, who knows? This could actually happen in a few years time. So it's all just a minefield, you know? I do think your point, though, is a valid one. And I've heard others say it, which is the law firms that are not using AI today are going to be replaced by the firms that are using it. Now, that doesn't mean that lawyers get replaced by AI. It means that you're going to get left behind if you're not embracing this seismic shift in the use of technology. It's like this so many companies investing in AI now. You know, Microsoft invested billions. It let go of a lot of its stuff, including legal department, to invest heavily into A.I.. I was listening to a podcast literally yesterday from an ex Google Tech guy who was saying that there's now this race to compete of all the biggest companies to use AI and how to implement it fastest and how to create the best technology to automate workflows and services. So I think, you know, these massive companies are using it and I think the legal industry is behind in that aspect, as it usually is when it comes to technology. But in a few years time, there will be no option to pay for AI or these tech legal tech systems will fall behind if they're not trained in this stuff. But also these massive law firms that where it takes a lot to like this massive ship where you want to turn in one direction. And it's so difficult to steer the ship in a different direction because it's so massive and there's so many stuff and there's so many processes. I think those huge firms need to act quicker, and I think it's the mid-sized firms that actually have the biggest advantage when it comes to implementing AI, because they've usually got the funds more than the smaller firms, but they're actually more agile than the bigger firms. So I think AI has democratized the legal industry. It's interesting, I had done a podcast episode with Supposed CEO and he was talking about how AI is helping to level the playing field in personal injury practice. Here in the United States, which I do think is important for both sides. Right? Plaintiff in defense, like defense, typically has had more tools and technology because there's more dollars behind because of the insurance companies and their resources, whereas personal injury firms now kind of personal injury firms, which is our client base, they now have access to these tools that can help level the playing field to some extent. So it's interesting to see how that plays out now in the future because but we don't know for sure yet. But so I agree. I really is is here to empower it's not going to replace but for law firms for personal injury practice here how can they practically shift their minds from resistance to some of this technology to readiness? And how do they transition from what used to be to what now is and you know, it technology empowered day to day practice I think resistance is a natural thing, especially within the legal industry. When I think back to my law days, I was definitely resistant myself to implement new technology because I didn't have the time to look at the new systems. I didn't want to. I was used to, you know, I was a creature of habit. I was used to a certain system. And I just didn't want to have to learn a new system because I already had a lot on my plate. So I think that resistance, the solution to resistance comes down to the culture of a law firm. And again, culture is very, very difficult to change because we are all human and all creatures of habit. But I have spoken to some big law firms in the UK. I spoke to a partner at Linklaters, which is a huge global firm, and I said to her, How will you actually create in this environment of where AI is something that lawyers are curious about and excited about? And she told me a few things that they were doing within their law firm, and I thought it was very interesting they were creating AI parties, so making it kind of fun, getting all the lawyers to show the lawyers about different A.I. and how they using it. So they would kind of put it into a social setting, which I thought was interesting, but also they encouraged curiosity. So when a new AI tool gets introduced into the firm before they actually accept with the legal tech company to go ahead with whatever tech it is, they get a few of the staff members to test it out and create this collaborative feel around it. And then once you get one lawyer on board, let's say a partner or whatever, is using the technology and they can say to the colleague in the kitchen at lunchtime, Oh, I was using this legal tech software and it made me do this case ten times quicker than it would have made me do it without it or I saved 20 hours of time. You know, these types of things where you're creating this environment, where people are sharing stories and actually promoting the tech, then other people get on board because it sounds amazing and you create this fear of missing out, which I think is psychological. But I think the other thing is I read last month about a big law firm, I think in the U.S. actually. And basically what they were doing was allowing 20% of the billable time to be used on AI experimentation for junior associates. So they were actually encouraging the juniors to experiment with how I learned about AI train on AI, and they could use it as their billable time. So then it kind of incentivizes them and reward them to use AI, which I think is probably the best way you could do it. But obviously not every law firm can do that because you've got these profitability problems and is a bit tricky. But there are different ways to, I guess, reduce that resistance. Yeah, I think it's tough. Like for example, in a plaintiff personal injury practice because it's contingency fee based, you don't have billable hours. The flip side of that is you only have so many hours to do your work from talking to different trial lawyers, the ones that are experimenting with how does it, you know, make their, for example, ability to pull up data quickly in a deposition and cross-examine an expert witness or their ability to pull together data to make a demand to try and resolve a case. There are a lot of different ways that ultimately you can have an open mind about how do we leverage these things to give our ROI that's measurable in terms of productive hours that can be spent moving cases forward because you know that in a contingency fee practice, that's that's really it. But I think what you've talked about is this idea that you have to embrace a framework to try and figure out how to use this in a way that benefits the way the firm operates. And the lawyer and their clients. Right. I mean, that's the bottom line of it. Yeah, I think so. I think the only way forward that I can see is to incentivize people to use it, especially in an industry that is so behind the times. In terms of technology, many firms are anyway, so I think, yeah, it's very difficult and I really feel bad for people who are running little law firms. I'd love to hear your views on it and what you think about AI and how you could use it and how you could incentivize people to use it. Well, I mean, I think it's an incredible tool. We have leveraged it internally for our operations. And, you know, as a business and a business owner, you have to look for every way possible to enable your team to do their work in an efficient manner and deliver the best results. It would be doing your team a disservice not to be turning over every stone to figure out what our systems that you can put into place and tools that will make your team more efficient, more profitable, and deliver better outcomes. Because whether you're a business or a law firm in law, firms are businesses. So there really is no difference. You've got to be thinking in those terms and this presents the greatest opportunity that I've seen to make advances because it is a way that businesses can multiply the effects and impact of their team by amplifying that with tools that make them better. It's why we're building commercially viable tools for clients that are going to leverage these technologies to help them make their practices more efficient. Because as a you know, we're an outsourcing partner for personal injury law firms. So that's part of what we do. We help them be more efficient, more profitable by turning to third parties. Technology is really no different than when a law firm outsources some aspect of what they do, whether it's process, service or anything that a law firm might outsource to a third party. These are systems that can help you do the same thing and ultimately deliver better outcomes, which is for all of us as attorneys are duty is to provide the best representation of our client and get them the best possible outcome in the legal matter that they've come to us for help with. I think a lot of people have this mindset. I guess probably the barrier is the implementation, which I think a lot of people just they're like, what do we actually do next? You know? Well, and that's where you got to develop a strategy and think about what's going to create ROI and maybe it's thinking in terms of what is the broad strategy, how does that make our team more efficient to deliver even better results in a more timely fashion? But thinking about it strategically is important, and that actually leads me perfectly into this next question I was going to ask you about, which is, you know, you talk about the Skills Summit, which I participated in, and it brought together legal professionals across a variety of different practices. I'm curious from your perspective, from what you've seen, what are the most surprising or transformative ways you've seen a law firm use AI? Because there's a lot of different use cases. I'm just curious, you know, from because there were a lot of different things that were discussed during the summit that I found interesting, not relative to this particular practice that I'm involved in, but just overall. But I'm curious, from what you've seen, what you think is the most transformative way it can be used? I am very impressed by one particular law firm, which is quite a big law firm across the world, and they are, in my opinion, really pioneering this AI era within the legal industry. And they're called Simmons and Simmons. They have basically created their own kind of incubator where they're developing their own AI technology within the firm. They all kind of probably they do use legal tech companies or solutions like external on ones, but they've created their own key internal one and they're actively hiring like legal engineers, people who are able to help with prompting and helping the lawyers really develop the AI skills. And I think that's that's amazing. They're creating their own A.I. kind of ecosystem environment within the firm, but they're heavily working on it. They're not just providing like the odd one off training or simply implementing external legal tech. They're using that AI first strategy within their law firm. And I think I would love to actually learn more about it as to what they're doing. One of the guys who is a legal engineer at Simmons and Simmons did one of the sessions at the summit, the prompting session, and he was like one of the favorite ones. You know, everybody loved that session from the feedback. And it's just amazing what this law firm is doing. So I would say most law firms are trying to implement AI, trying to use technology to make systems quicker, to make workflows quicker, which is like what everyone everybody's trying to do. But Simmons and Simmons are going like one step further, developing their own and actually creating this amazing kind of environment and ecosystem. AI Which I think just sounds brilliant. I'm going to actually find out more about it and then maybe do like a LinkedIn post about what they're actually doing because it'll help the rest of the industry, I think. Yeah, well as a lawyer and got into the legal tech movement, how do you see AI and technology redefining the traditional structure that law firms operate under? Do you think that it's going to change it dramatically? And in what areas, if so? Well, I mean, a year ago people were asking me if they could go on my podcast to talk about AI. And I was saying, that's too boring. That's not going to be something that people are interested in. And I wasn't really interested in it myself. And I accidentally got into this legal tech thing because I think I realized actually this is the future. And I think it wasn't until May this year. Well, May 2025, I should say that the when the first a the first regulated air driven law firm came out in the UK and it was the first ever firm to be regulated by a regulatory body and accepted by a regulatory body that was AI driven law firm. And I was like, What on earth? I couldn't believe it. When I read the news I could not believe it because I thought this is a future thing that would happen in maybe 5 to 10 years time. But things were moving a lot quicker than I even imagined or realized. And when I heard about this AI driven law firm, I was like, Oh my goodness, things have dramatically changed. Just in a few months. And I interviewed the CEO of this law firm, and I asked him in-depth questions about the regulatory process and what he sees in terms of the future of law. And my perspective shifted like it was like a 180, like, you know, I just get completely changed. And I thought, oh my goodness, AI is absolutely revolutionizing the legal industry. And we are we are in a massive transformation. And I think a lot of lawyers don't realize it. They don't realize the massive impact that it's actually having on the legal industry. I think we're going through a change bigger than the industrial revolution. We're going through a huge change. I don't think people are prepared. I don't think they realize what we're going through. I speak with so many people on my podcast and I've changed the subject to solely about AI because I'm very interested in how it will impact the future of law. And it's just interesting to see in the perspective is especially from people who run like law firms that heavily rely on AI and they're scared about the future and they tell me things and I'm just like, yeah, people, lawyers are just not prepared for what's coming. Yeah. I take your point about what is going on about it being like the Industrial Revolution. That was what I was trying to say probably a little less eloquently earlier, is that it is a massive change that is moving so fast in so many aspects of life. But when you look at even just in the narrow niche where I've had the privilege of talking to people, which is personal injury and some of the technology companies that have now come to the forefront, they're like even up is a good example. They just raised $150 million in the series E and are valued at $2 billion with 2000 users in. That's I don't even understand those numbers Harvey's valuation at 5 billion here in the States. You know it it's just staggering. And that doesn't even count for some of the other, you know, companies that are on the periphery that are probably not, you know, mature enough yet that we're gonna see come to the forefront. So things are moving out speed. I think it's it's unprecedented and the change that it will bring with it is is substantial. And, you know, I think that's a question for me is, you know, what skills are going to define the lawyer of the future? How do you start to build those capabilities today if you're just graduating from law school? This is like the million dollar question, right? You know, this is this is what everybody wants to know. And I could give you a I could give you an answer, but I think it's my answer is probably way too generic and predictable for actually, I think what's to come. You know, I did a post on LinkedIn the other day and somebody commented saying that they knew somebody who was going to law school, so they were just entering law school. And the law school professor said to them, the legal industry is has always been very difficult to get into. It's really difficult to get into a good law firm and to start your career because it's very competitive. There are many people with a law degree around the world, but it's even more competitive now. So in order to stand out, you need to be learning about other things, like, for example, coding or psychology, or have these other skills marketing, for example, and that will make you more well-rounded and more employable for a legal profession. And I said, look, this was the advice that they were giving me 15 years ago. This advice is already outdated or it's obvious that you need to be more well-rounded. You know, it's obvious that you need to have extra curricular activities under your belt, extra skills to put on your resumé. That's not enough anymore. It's simply not enough. I think the skills that people need to be building now as lawyers are probably things that if somebody was listening to this, they wouldn't be happy to hear. Because I think you need to go above and beyond. You need to be doing things or the people just simply aren't doing. Like, for example, if I was a law student now and I was hearing about all this I talk and how competitive it is to enter the legal industry and I wanted to become a lawyer. I would forget learning and knowledge is everywhere. You can type into anything and it will give you the answer. It's important to have knowledge, but having the extra knowledge in order to get a good law job is simply not enough. I would say you need to be more human in terms of start a podcast, start posting on LinkedIn and create your own kind of personal brand. Start a newsletter, start a community, start networking with other lawyers early on, start going to these events, start doing these human things that sets you apart because these skills that you build and communities that you build or the people who start doing them, the don't have the inclination to do them because it takes time, it takes effort, and you also need to learn these additional things. So I think people need to be doing things that set them apart. And what that means is for them, whatever their strengths are looking to them and see how can they actually start building connections or building an audience or a community as well as their studies. Because communities and these things, I can't do that. Well, not right now, you know, and it's a human thing. So I think this type of thing is going to be important, is great advice for really anyone who's looking to accelerate their brand, their business, you know, so personal injury lawyers that using, for example, LinkedIn using some of the other social outlets to build your brand so that when someone gets injured, they're thinking of you because you've created that community. I can help create content. I can do things that can perhaps supercharge, but you have to be the one that starts to create that community, which you've done. I've done it. It's a very important part of the business of client acquisition. And good segue because I was going to ask you about the use of technology in transforming marketing and client acquisition for law firms. And I'm curious, you know, because of your experience with LinkedIn and perhaps, you know, in just general building a brand, how do you think law firms can effectively use these tools now to do those things, to really build brand client engagement and ultimately a growth engine for their business is a tricky one because I think a lot of people are using AI to write links in posts and to do marketing, but they're actually, I guess at the moment, chatbots and these are the AI tools whilst they're very, very good, that kind of missing this human edge. So, you know that it's written by, you know, it's not a human writing it in many cases. So I think people still, especially within marketing a law firm, you still very much need to have marketing skills and personable skills and emotional intelligence and cultural intelligence and all these things. But you can definitely leverage AI to help you on your way. But I think the humans behind it need to very much know who their audience is and who they're marketing to. I think AI is a brilliant way to make that process much quicker and more efficient. You can use strategy to write posts, you can customize the GPT to make it right in your voice or for your clients and for your audience. So there are definitely ways to do it. But I want to emphasize the fact that you very much need a human to know, especially within the legal industry, because it's such a sensitive area, especially within personal injury. You know, I used to work in personal injury myself and it's such a personal area. And, you know, if you have an accident, you want to make sure that somebody actually cares and that they have this level of emotional intelligence. I remember when I started, I did some work experience when I was literally like 16 years old, a personal injury law firm, and I was answering calls about catastrophic incidents and taken the information. The only training that they gave me, they gave me like pretty much zero training. But the only thing they said to me was just make sure you make the right sounds that sound like you're being empathetic and that you understand the situation. And so I was like, That's a really, really good point, because when you when you receive hundreds of calls per day, you get kind of immune to this. But I'm digressing now. You need to be sensitive and you can't I can't do these things. So when it comes to like marketing, I think you need to be able to have that like human aspects, particularly in, in areas of law, like personal injury, Nantucket Point, you know, personal injury is is unique because of it's very personal. Having unfortunately been through myself, I know it's it's a very difficult thing to have happen to you. And having that personal connection and interaction is incredibly important. So very good point. And, you know, a good point when you're thinking about all these things is it's it's great to figure out how to leverage tools. But there also is always going to be that human element. And part of that, though, too, I think, is like the ethical questions around the use of technology and curious, you know, what? What do you see is the responsibility the legal community has in making sure that AI is used ethically and making sure that AI tools align with justice and integrity? Those are things that I don't hear too many people really talking about. Such a good point. And I'm really glad you actually raised this topic because I think it's so important to talk about. I read a statistic literally off the top of my head, this could be inaccurate, but it was around this percentage, it was in the forties, but I think it was like 43% of law firms adopt AI or technology into their law firm without a strategy which and for me, a strategy means a policy thinking about compliance, thinking about data protection in and AI governance. So that's actually very, very scary. And I think the legal industry has an absolutely huge responsibility, probably one of the biggest responsibilities of all the industries to actually be implementing AI in a responsible way and a compliant way. And I think many of them aren't. I have spoken to a lot of law firm owners about this topic, actually, because I said to them, you know, why are so many law firms implementing AI and actually not thinking about any type of AI policy? And they're literally law firms. They do this for their clients. Why aren't they doing this for themselves? And they're in a highly regulated industry. It doesn't make any sense. And not doing the proper checks are just not aware of it whatsoever. And it's very, very frightening because I think the biggest thing at the moment is there's so many law firms that are rushing to adopt AI because they don't want to seem like they're behind the times or not using modern ways of working, that they're actually implementing it quicker than they're thinking about, because it takes a long time for them to have meetings and create policies and documents. And I understand it is a lengthy process. There's a lot of red tape around it, and so a lot of them are just completely jumping that and implementing the AI. And I believe that in future, in the next few years, we are going to see a lot of cases in the courts where law firms have adopted this AI and breached all sorts of laws as a result of not having a strategy. And I think it's a lack of knowledge, a lack of awareness and very naive, which is concerning. So we have a huge responsibility, but I think that many people are just not aware of it because they're just not aware of the impact that I can actually have. And I think they just look at it like, Oh, it's just like, Oh, the technology is so much cleverer than other technology. It can share your information, it can do all sorts. So I think it's a lack of awareness and it's a great point. The strategies and the policies around how to implement these technologies is incredibly important to be thought through, especially through the lens of ethical concerns or protection of data that is private, particularly health information in our world. You know, there's all sorts of things that any time you put anything into open source that in and of itself is a breach of client confidentiality. So, you know, and I think there's probably a generalized awareness of that. But the question becomes, does everybody in the law firm think that way or is it just the lawyers? If there's no written policy and you have a paralegal or a legal secretary that uses it in a way that discloses some client information, that's a real problem. And obviously, you have liability if you've not created any plan or policies and parameters for the use of that technology within a law practice. Yeah, I think also like so many law firms do not have an AI policy and yet there's stuff like for example, the admin or reception ists or even the lawyers they using chat typically of course are using chat, CBT, everybody uses it and no matter what it's for, no matter if it's for just amending an email like, Oh, make this sound more professional. If you don't have an AI policy in place, you how can you control how can you actually make sure that nobody is breaching any type of law? This is why I think there's going to be a lot of cases. I think a lot of law firms are going to be fined in the near future. Well, it's kind of a good ending point. You've been very generous with your time, but I wanted to ask you one last question, and it's very open ended. I always ask it as a way to end the episode. As an experienced lawyer and a legal technologist, what's your view? Fuck about whatever you think is important or something that we didn't touch upon that you think is a good point to make sure you hit home as we conclude the episode today. Oh, my gosh. I think we've touched on a lot of different areas. I think it's been an amazing conversation and such an important conversation. I feel like if we had this conversation again in six months time, I think it would be completely different I think my view is everything is changing so much. If I look back on the last six months, just the last six months, and I look at the news, the legal news and all the updates about AI and these different things, I'm in pure shock as to how much things have changed. When you compare that with the last ten years, for example. So I think my view is we all need to really just keep up to date with what's going on and we all need to be having conversations and just be really, really cautious and aware of AI and its impact because I think it's going to really change everything and I think we need to just keep everybody in the loop. So I think it's brilliant that you're having this conversation with me. I mean, I'm talking about things I've never spoken about publicly before. So the fact that your audience can listen to this and think about their own thoughts and their own ideas, I think is fantastic. So, yeah, I think let's keep the conversation open. That's my that's my view. So, Holly, if any of our listeners have questions about anything we've talked about or want to get in touch with you, what's the best way to reach out to you? The best way probably is through LinkedIn. Go to my profile, Holly, and just drop me a message if you've got any questions. Holly, thanks for joining me today and we'll see everybody on the next episode of Trial Law Review. If today's episode gave you a new perspective on how your firm operates or sparked a useful idea, consider sharing it with a colleague and be sure to follow the show so you don't miss future conversations with leaders across the Personal Injury Space Trial Law Review is brought to you by Synergy, a strategic operations partner helping personal injury law firms resolve health care leans more efficiently. If you're looking to accelerate case flow and allow your team to focus on high level legal work that moves cases faster, consider partnering with Synergy. I'm Jason Lazarus and I'll see you in the next episode.