Solo to 160 People: How This Trial Lawyer Built a Legal Empire | Trial Lawyer View Ep. 90

What does it take for a trial lawyer to stop being the center of every decision and build a firm that can actually scale? 

In this episode of Trial Lawyer View, Jason Lazarus sits down with Michael P. McCready, Managing Partner of McCready Law, to unpack law firm operations, trial lawyer leadership, personal injury firm management, AI adoption, and the business discipline behind long term growth. Michael shares the progression from becoming a good lawyer, to serving clients well, to running a real business, to building marketing systems and culture, plus the leadership shift that happens when the founder becomes the bottleneck. They also get into intake, SOPs, KPIs, private equity, alternative business structures, automation, and how McCready Law built a custom internal LLM with firm values baked in. This is a strong listen for anyone focused on trial lawyer operations, law firm scaling, and operations beyond the verdict.

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Trial Lawyer View features long-form conversations with experienced plaintiff trial lawyers, firm leaders, and industry experts. The show is built for legal professionals who want to lead stronger, more efficient personal injury firms by learning from peers who have built, managed, and evolved successful practices in the real world.

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Michael P. McCready 0:00

Running a law firm like a business is not a dirty word. Our number one value is serving our clients. We're representing our clients in the best possible manner. And you know what? These best business principles result in better service to our clients.

Jason Lazarus 0:16

Michael McCready is the managing partner of McCready Law, a personry and workers' compensation firm with over 160 team members across four states. This is a conversation about the moment a trial lawyer stops being the smartest person in every room and starts building something bigger than any single verdict.

Michael P. McCready 0:34

I had that aha moment. I was involved with everything. I realized that I was the pinch point in a lot of things. And I was holding things back. I went to my team and they said, Am I the problem here with the law firm? And to a person, they all said, Yeah.

Jason Lazarus 0:53

In this episode, you learn how McCready scaled from solo practitioner to 160 people by identifying the four stages every law firm must pass through, and why most founders stall at stage two. How his firm built a custom internal LLM with their own values baked in, and the change management process that made adoption stick, and why the firms that treat practice like a business, not just a calling, are the ones positioned to compete as private equity reshapes the legal landscape. I'm Jason Lazarus, and this is Trial Lawyer Review.

What catches solo lawyers off guard first?

Jason Lazarus 1:29

Michael, welcome to Trial Law Review, and thank you for taking the time to be with me today.

Michael P. McCready 1:34

Yeah, thanks for having me, Jason. Looking forward to it.

Jason Lazarus 1:37

So, as a starting point, you founded McCready Law or some iteration of it, I think in 1999 from doing my uh research after making partner at another firm in just four years. When you look at the early years on your own, what were the operational problems you didn't see coming even as someone who was experienced a bit as a trial lawyer?

Michael P. McCready 2:01

Well, you know, one thing that I always tell people when you're first starting out is you've got more time than money, right? So um, you know, I I did a lot of uh did a lot of grunt work and and met a lot of people. Uh what you have to understand is when you start your own firm, you you need clients, right? You can be the best trial lawyer of the world, you can get great verdicts, but it's not necessarily going to make your phone ring. Back in the early days, uh when it was just myself, um, you know, I did a lot of grassroots marketing and uh, you know, meeting people in the community and meeting lawyers, but never underestimate the the necessity of getting cases in the door.

What are the real stages of building a law firm?

Jason Lazarus 2:42

So when you were starting out in terms of the logistics of that, how did you begin to build the foundation for what's turned into today a very uh busy multi-state practice?

Michael P. McCready 2:57

Well, you know, there's a real uh progression uh that you need uh for building a law firm. Uh you have to start by being a good lawyer. I mean, there's no substitute for that. You need to know what you're doing. Um, the second skill that you need to develop is uh how to be good with clients. And that's an entirely different skill. I mean, I've known great trial lawyers over the over the years that are terrible with clients. Uh, and then likewise, I've known people who, you know, let's put it this way, you know, they're not the best of lawyers, but the clients love them because they know how to handle and how to treat clients. It's like a bedside manner, right? You know, some doctors have it and some people don't. So lawyers are the same way. So, you know, start out being a being a good lawyer, then learn um, you know, how to deal with clients. Uh, the next step uh in my law firm was learning how to run a business. You cannot underestimate how important it is to be able to run your firm like a business. And that means having the proper books uh for for your finances, um, you know, understanding about payroll and technology and licensing and business and corporations, all of that, in order to have a successful law firm, you need to learn how to do those kind of things. Next step in my progression was learning about marketing. Um, like I said earlier, is that you can be a great lawyer, where that doesn't necessarily mean that people are gonna be beating down your door to hire you. So no matter what type of law that you practice, you know, you need to be constantly marketing and figuring out where the next client or the next case is gonna come from. Um, and that eventually, you know, where where I am now in in my career is uh is really building a law firm for culture and building a firm that that people want to work at, that believe in what you're doing and why you're doing it. And um, you know, and that's and that's really uh the hardest part out of of everything is is building a firm uh that's got the culture that uh that allows it to be successful.

Jason Lazarus 5:15

That's a great point. And making sure people understand purpose behind their work. We we do that in all of our all-hands meetings. We talk about examples of in our business resolving liens, how we've helped someone that's been injured by getting an ERISA lien waived or you know, a compromise on a Medicare conditional payment or a Medicaid lien. You know, those things that actually make a difference in that person's life and gives our team insight into what they do and how it matters in the end, because that purpose is, you know, a big part of at least the way I see it, culture, you know, because I want our people to care as much as I care about how we show up and help the injured parties and the law firms that entrust us to work with uh their clients.

Michael P. McCready 6:11

I think that a lot of people, um, you know, bosses, whether they're lawyers or some other business, forget to explain the why. Okay, well, this is this is how we do it, you know, this is how we reduce a lien, or this is how we send out discovery, or why, right? And and by teaching your team uh the why behind the different things that you do, you'd be surprised. Uh, it makes a big difference. Then you start having people think a little bit more creatively. And when they do come up with uh, you know, with an unusual situation, if they know the why, and then they also know the values that you and your firm hold, they can answer those questions without having to go to their to their supervisor all the time. And ultimately that's what you want is you want independent thinking people uh that can that can help you and your clients and your business. But if you explain to your team what the why is, why do we do it? Okay, uh, it makes a big difference. And I think it's a step that people overlook.

Why leadership systems matter as headcount grows

Jason Lazarus 7:19

Since you were talking about culture, I uh in doing the research for the podcast, I saw something along the way. You were talking about a commitment to developing leadership within your firm and and also the kind of operational underpinnings uh with I I think you've implemented EOS, which is something that uh I implemented at Synergy years ago and has really served us well. Uh, but I'm curious how you have connected all of those dots with those sorts of things to make your firm run operationally at an optimal level.

Michael P. McCready 8:01

The law firm is a business, and and I have read a lot of business books. And um, you know, our our business happens to be law, but those fundamental principles of business are important. And, you know, depending on the size of your firm, a firm with five employees is different than a firm with 20 employees, which is different than a firm with 50 employees. You know, we're up to 160 now. So I've been through all of those stages, and each of those number of employees brings different challenges. You don't need supervisors if there's only five people in your office. You're it. Okay. When when you get to a certain level, um, you need to have people who supervise other people. That's not me. Okay. I mean, I need to be doing the things that bring the most value to the firm, and I need to hire people to be supervisors. It's not, it's not the best use of my time. So the size of the firm that I have now, one of my main goals is training leaders and and training department heads. And yes, boy, that sure sounds corporate, Michael. Well, you know what? That's what's required at a at a at a company or a firm my size. If you had 160 people with no supervisors, it would be chaos. Nothing would happen. So, you know, a lot of what I do now, I mean, I can't, I can't train the receptionist. I can't train employee number 161. Can't do it. So, you know, I need to make sure that I'm training the people that will be in the position to do that. So, you know, I'm working with, you know, our director of intake, you know, I'm working with our HR department, I'm working with the uh, you know, the case manager supervisors and and and teaching them how to lead their teams in the same way that I used to teach uh and and train and mentor when when it was much smaller. So it just really depends on the size of the dynamics of your firm. But if you've got a good foundation, if if you understand the growth trajectory of a business, you know, by the time you get to to where I am, you know, a lot of the a lot of the groundwork is already done and you can focus on this. We don't need to be focusing on process and procedure because we tackled that a long time ago. You know, if we were at 160 people and had no processes, we were trying to, you know, to handle that to create those processes now, it just wouldn't be successful. So, you know, that's something that should be handled, you know, much earlier on as sure as your business grows.

Why courtroom wins do not guarantee a healthy firm

Jason Lazarus 10:59

Well, it's a good segue into what I was going to ask you about, which is a lot of personal injury firms are great at securing justice for clients, but struggle behind the scenes with how the firm actually runs. And I know you do a bit of consulting with other firms. Where do you see the biggest gap between a success in the courtroom versus a healthy business? Because we were just talking about all those things about you know what actually is important for a business of your size, and really, you know, along that continuum.

Michael P. McCready 11:38

I mean, success in the courtroom, um, you know, besides you know, a little bit of talent, really focuses on preparation. You know, the the lawyer who is more prepared is generally speaking going to have a better outcome than someone who's just swinging it. And so, you know, that's on a case-by-case basis by going to court, but look at it within your firm as a whole, you know, or are you reinventing the wheel on every case? You shouldn't be doing that. There's certain things that happen in every single case, certain things that happened every at the same time in every case. Um, and the more that you can create a process around that, uh, the better the outcome is going to be. First, it's gonna be consistent. You know, you don't have 10 people doing things 10 different ways. Um, so you know, consistency matters, but it also matters, at least with personal injury, listen, we're a contingency fee practice. We're not doing billable hours. And so if it takes us 10 hours to do something, um, and we can do it in eight hours, you know, that's that's saving two hours, and that's gonna increase uh your profit or or increase the amount of money that uh that goes uh you know into the firm. So, you know, we're we're always looking for efficiencies and how to do things uh in a better manner. And you know what? These efficiencies and these processes at the end of the day result in better results for our clients, okay, because it's consistent. You know, we're we're delivering a consistent legal uh representation to you know a wide variety of clients by you know by by the processes that we have developed. And and listen, your your employees, they want process, they want feedback, they want to know that they're doing things the proper way. And then it does allow those high-performing uh uh uh team members, you know, the nuance, the things that they can add to a case if they know the foundation uh of what they do every day is is there for them.

Jason Lazarus 13:58

You run a multi-state law firm from Puerto Rico, and a lot of founders of law firms, I think, struggle to let go of being the person who touches every single thing in the firm. And I'm curious what had to change and how you lead the firm when the volume and geography outgrew what one person could manage.

Michael P. McCready 14:22

I had that aha moment, is

When the founder becomes the bottleneck

Michael P. McCready 14:25

that uh when I was still actively handling cases, uh, and you know, as you said, I was involved with everything. Um, I realized that I was the pinch point in a lot of things. And I was holding things back. And uh and I I went to my my office was much, much smaller back then, but I went to I went to my team and they said, you know, am I am I the problem here with the law firm? And and to a person, they all said, yeah. You know, they all knew it, but I didn't. So it was that that uh that epiphany that I had that uh you know I was holding back the progress of the firm. I was holding back the progress of the cases, and I was holding back the the resolution for our clients. And so, you know, once I came to that realization, uh, you know, then I was having a look and and see, do I really need to be involved with this? Because I had I I've always uh had great people working with and people that I do trust. So it's not a matter, some people some people can't trust the people they're working with. That's a problem. Okay, if you can't trust the people that are working for you, uh you may need new people because they're out there. But when you have that trust that your team can deliver what you need them to deliver, uh it does make it a little bit easier. And so, you know, more and more um, you know, I was able to let go of things that uh, you know, that I really shouldn't be handling. And then that allows me to focus on what I do, you know, what my what my strengths are. So I was a really good trial lawyer, uh, but I am a better managing partner. And I've got great lawyers that work for me. It doesn't need to be me. Every lawyer has got that ego to them that says, oh, you know, no one can do it as good as me. And and I I'm no different, you know. I I still think that I'm probably the best one at my firm. But you know what? It doesn't mean that I have to do everything, it doesn't mean that I should do everything. And, you know, I need to focus on the things that move the needle the most for the firm because at the end of the day, you know, I've got a lot of mouths to feed, I've got a lot of families that we support. So uh, you know, what is the best use of my time?

Jason Lazarus 17:42

Yeah, great advice, especially as you're scaling and growing, is to figure out where the bottleneck is, and if it's you, then you got to make sure you solve for that. And it's tough to check your ego at the door. And I think most businesses go through that at some point if you're scaling and growing. I know we didn't, you know, I've I've realized I needed to surround myself with certain people as the company grew to make sure that we continue to evolve. So it is a challenge that everybody faces.

Michael P. McCready 18:15

The best use of of your time may be the lead trial attorney. Okay. I'm not saying that uh, you know, to give it all up and go the route that I've gone. You know, your the best use of your time may be trying cases. And if that's the case, you need to make sure that there are other people doing things in the office. Okay, you cannot do everything. So focus on what you're what you're best at. And you know what? It's it's probably what you enjoy the most. You know, we we tend to be good at what we enjoy doing. Um, but you do need to make sure that you're hiring to compensate for those things that uh that will not be addressed. So if you don't have a business sense, if you don't, you know, you can't, you know, you can't balance a checkbook, so to speak, you need to hire somebody that's gonna do that. You know, you need to you need to have a bookkeeper or or an accountant or or something to make sure that your the money that you're making trying cases uh is being managed properly and not being wasted and and god forbid, not being embezzled. You know, PI attorneys are infamous for being uh being ripped off by their uh by their employees because they just don't have a handle on where all the money is and where it's going.

Jason Lazarus 19:36

What is one operational decision that you've made in the last five years that has had the biggest

Which operational decision changed everything?

Jason Lazarus 19:42

impact on the way the firm operates and runs on a day-to-day basis?

Michael P. McCready 19:48

I would say uh we uh we split um a position. I had a firm administrator who basically ran everything. Um, and we split that position into operations and human resources, completely different skills. Uh, so that's been a that's been a really big point. Now listen, most firms probably aren't big enough to have those two roles. And so it's probably one person, maybe it's just an office manager. Uh, but you have to understand that people wear a lot of hats. And at some point, um, you know, the firm grows, uh, and you need to make sure there's a a book um uh good degree, where it's you have to have the right people in the right seats. And uh and that's critical. Maybe you have the right people, the right person, but they're not doing the thing that's best for them. Um, or maybe uh maybe you don't have the right person. So from my perspective, that was a really big change. Um, we recently brought on uh a COO outside of uh from outside of legal. Uh I wanted somebody coming in with uh with a fresh perspective on how to run a you know a large multi-u-state firm that had no background in law. So that was a that was a big change. Once again, you know, uh uh hiring department heads or promoting department heads uh has been uh has been a real big change. Uh but I I would say for firms that are smaller than mine, uh the very first thing that makes the biggest difference is uh is focus on intake. Uh and even if intake is just your receptionist answering the phone, uh any new case um you need to make sure you're paying attention to. Uh and and and not enough people do. When you have got an intake, um, I mean we've got a department, but if you've got even one person, a paralegal, that's in charge of intake, and that's you know, that is their main responsibility, that will do more for your firm than you know, the than working uh, you know, 80 hours preparing for a case. So that that would be my recommendation is is work on intake.

Jason Lazarus 22:06

If a firm leader is listening right now and knows that their operations are holding them back,

What should firms fix in the next 90 days?

Jason Lazarus 22:12

but haven't started fixing it yet, what would you tell them to do in the next 90 days? You know, something that can really start to change the momentum of the way the firm runs.

Michael P. McCready 22:26

Lawyers don't need to reinvent the wheel. I mean, there are best practices out there to to run a law firm. Um, and and and if you don't know them, you need to start working with someone that does. Um, so whether it's bringing in a consultant. Or attending a mastermind. Or we hire a lot of people, independent contractors, off of a website called Upwork. And you can put a job posting up there and say, I am a, you know, a 10-person personal injury law firm. We need to work on our operations. We would like to get uh SOPs, standard operating procedures in place. We would like uh, you know, to start uh uh tracking uh metrics and and KPIs, key performance indicators. Uh so even if you don't know what I'm talking about, you can bring someone in that's gonna hold your hand and uh you know and and start. Uh what the expression is the best time to have planted a tree was yesterday, the next best time is today. So you do have to start. And if you have started, you know, pay attention to running your running your business or bring people in that are gonna pay attention to to running your business, uh, and it will pay unbelievable dividends.

Jason Lazarus 23:54

I've had so many guests talk about this, and it seems like there is certainly a shift towards viewing a law practice and running it more like a business, because at the end of the day, you still have to pay salaries, still want to have money to take on for yourself, and looking at how the firm operates from an efficiency and profitability standpoint is critical to being able to make the right decisions without those metrics and KPIs and SOPs, and I mean all of it is it's going to be nearly impossible to get to the end result that you want unless you just happen to get lucky. Meaning if you don't chart it out and point in the right direction, you're probably never going to reach where you want to go because you're not you're not inspecting it, you're not measuring it, and you're not seeing how close you are to achieving your goal.

Michael P. McCready 24:53

You know, a hundred percent. And listen, running a law firm like a business is not a not a dirty word. Our number one value

Why running a law firm like a business helps clients

Michael P. McCready 25:01

is uh serving our clients. We're doing, you know, uh we're representing our clients in the best possible manner. And and you know what? These best business principles result in you know better service to our clients. If you if you're completely disorganized, and you know, when I started, you know, you you could picture a lawyer's desk that was, you know, this high, full of papers and and folders everywhere, and it was a disaster. And you know, maybe that lawyer claimed to know where everything was, but you know what? You know, that is not the best way to represent a client. When you have things and and your office has got the basic business principles set up, it gives you the freedom to be able to give the best service to your clients. You cannot be a good lawyer without having a good business behind you. Now, that doesn't mean that the good lawyer has to do the business. You know, maybe, maybe you're a fantastic trial attorney. Well, you know, go to a law firm where you can have somebody like myself that manages the back. You know, those are the best partnerships, are the you know, the lawyer that handles all the business side of it and the lawyer that handles all the legal side of it. Um, that's a match made in heaven. So, you know, find out where you where you fit on the continuum and work your life and your career around that, and uh and make sure that you surround yourself to compensate for those things that that absolutely are essential and need to be done. I think enough people understand the business side of law now. Business side of law does not mean that it's that it's neglecting the clients, you know. The we still have that fundamental tenant is that we represent in the client's interests, which uh, you know the the big news these days is you know private equity coming in uh to the market and and alternative business structures and so forth and so on. And and and lots of people are are up in arms and against this. Um, but what it's really doing is it's bringing business principles to law firms, which is a good thing, uh, which in the long run is going to be good for the client experience. And as long as the client, the I'm sorry, the attorneys, you know, hold their ethical duty to the client, you know, I think that it's uh that it's a a net positive. Um, you know, of course, the the alternative argument is that when you have non-lawyer um owners or non-lawyer investors, their goal is to maximize profits. There's where the uh you know the the conflict can arise. But you know, we're lawyers and and and I I don't care who owns it, you know, we have a duty to the client. We have an ethical duty. So um, you know, but that that's that's that's uh you know also another important thing about running a business, uh running a law firm like a business.

Jason Lazarus 28:17

Now you brought up something that I wanted to ask you about, which is uh the private equity entering into the personality

Has private equity changed the legal landscape?

Jason Lazarus 28:25

law firm space via ABS and now the more MSOs we're starting to see, which you know in turn changes the landscape for law firm operations. And I wanted to get your take on where it's all headed and the impact. I mean, I understand some of the things you've outlined are important considerations. I'm just curious what you see, because from my perspective, I see that shift as an important one to ultimately drive the efficiency and market, so to speak, because without firms being pushed to really look at that, because with this happening, I think in order to compete, you're gonna have to have some minimum business sense and organization. Because if this becomes more uh common and proliferates, it's gonna mean something in in the way I view it, in terms of how uh firms that are not thinking in those terms are able to compete, particularly with technology, and and we'll we'll touch on that in a second. But what what are your thoughts in terms of how that's going to change the landscape?

Michael P. McCready 29:44

Private equity or investment, yes, profit is important. Um, but you know what? You know, lawyers try to make a profit. If a lawyer's if if lawyers own a law firm, it's 100% owned by lawyers, their goal is to make a profit. It's no different. So as long as lawyers maintain their independence from the equity, you know, profit is not a dirty word. Um, and and whether it's an MSO or whether it's uh, you know, an ABS in Arizona or some other hybrid or you know, the lawyer, once they take that oath of office, you know, has that duty to a client. Um and and profit and the duty to the client do not necessarily need to be in conflict. Is there a possibility that it can conflict? Absolutely, but at the end of the day, the client's interest is paramount over any profit. And and I I I believe that you know that that that it can operate, it is proved proven to be able to operate, um, and still keep the client's best interest in uh uh at the forefront.

Jason Lazarus 31:00

Definitely gonna be an interesting shift, I do think, though, from a competitive standpoint, because if you see consolidation happening and you've got private equity money behind those firms, it's sort of what I've seen happen in our local marketplace. So we're based in Orlando, which is where uh John Morgan started Morgan, Colin and Gilbert now, Morgan and Morgan. And you know, seeing what's happened with a firm that has that kind of capital, that kind of size, what it does to the ability of other firms to compete, it it changes the landscape.

Michael P. McCready 31:39

Well, I mean, we live in a capitalist society. I mean, I'm sorry, the best businesses, you know, are probably going to come out on top. You know, for for I mean, no one, no one will uh disagree that John Morgan is an amazing businessman. Okay. I mean, he is he has built an amazing law firm. You may, you might not like it, but you have to respect it. And it's not just him, there's lots of law firms. I mean, you know, I'm not comparing myself to Morgan and Morgan, but I'm very proud of what I've built. There are options out there, but for for law firms, it's extremely expensive to be able to build something like John Morgan or myself or for other law, you know, to get to a certain point. It takes a tremendous amount of money. Um, and if you can consolidate those resources, in other words, I mean, we've built out an unbelievable um IT stack, right? I mean, we're very, very tech forward. It's cost me a lot of money. Um, and it's uh it's not something that most law firms are in the financial position to do. But guess what? If you're if you're involved with an MSO and all of the information technology, all the IT is handled outside of your law firm and it can be scaled not just for your law firm, but 10 other law firms which are using the same base technology, well, you know, now you can compete on a technological basis. Um, I explained how we divided operations from human resources. You know, not everybody can do that, but if you have a dedicated human resources department, which is outside of the law firm, which now can handle 10 different law firms, you know, you've got HR resources that were never possible, never possible uh for you. Um, and so all of these things, if they are handled outside of the law firm, or the investment is brought into the law firm to allow the law firm to do these, the law firm is going to do better. And by doing better, you're helping the clients. Hey, you are giving clients better representation if you've got the top, uh, the top technology. You're giving clients better representation if you've got your human resources department with onboarding and benefits, and you hire the the best people because you've got a great HR department. So, you know, all of these things all contribute to the success of a law firm. And um, instead of having all these law firms be, you know, little islands and and and having to do it all themselves, uh, you know, where the where the changes are coming from in the legal landscape, I think is going to be a net positive for the clients. I really do.

Jason Lazarus 34:43

Now, right now, uh everyone is is focused on AI and deployment of it. I

Where is AI creating real value inside the firm?

Jason Lazarus 34:49

I know from doing some background research that you guys are actually using it. And I'm I'm curious for you guys, where is AI creating operational value inside of your law firm? And where have you found that it falls short?

Michael P. McCready 35:06

Yeah, so I mean, we've one of our firm values is technology, okay? And it always has been AI is just the newest technology. Uh, I mean, so so going back 25 years, you know, we were one of the first people on the internet. So when I was a young attorney, lawyers would be would say, Oh, you know, I don't need a website, I've got a brochure. This is how I get my clients. And those people that adopted websites were ahead of the game. And oh, I don't need SEO because I've got a website. Everybody's gonna know you need SEO. Well, AI is the same way, okay, is you absolutely have to have this. You have to be involved. Um, and the earlier, the the early adopters like myself are already so far ahead. And the and the pace that AI has, uh, it's gonna be very hard for most law firms to catch a firm like mine. Um, now that doesn't mean that you shouldn't try. I mean, you have to be so heavily invested, and and what I don't necessarily mean just money. You need to be invested in incorporating AI in every possible manner that you can in your law firm. But now this is where most law firms uh come up short. They think, oh, yeah, let's just uh, you know, get the next best vendor and put it in, and oh, we're gonna be AI. No, that's not. First off, you need to make sure that you know whoever you're gonna work with is gonna provide what you actually need. Then you need to learn about change management. You cannot, even with lawyers, you can't just say, hey, here's a new AI tool, get to work. You know, you need to roll it out, you need to explain what it is, you need to do it gradually. I mean, there's a whole process for implementing technology in a new manner. And if you want your team to succeed with technology, you know, you have to give them uh, you know, what they need in order to use it. You have to explain to them the why, not that AI is going to replace your job. No, not at all. AI is going to help you do your job better. Um, and and then you have to monitor AI adoption. Uh, you know, every AI platform has got uh uh uh user statistics, and we look at that each week and we see who's using it and who's not, and those people that aren't using it, we need to go to them and say, you know, hey, I see that you're not using your new tools, you know, what is it that's uh that's keeping you from that? Um, and find out what it is, and is it more training, or are they afraid, or maybe they just didn't have time, um, and get everybody up to speed. And then eventually, if there are people that even though we've taken all these steps to get them to utilize AI, still aren't, you know, we have to have that discussion with them is that we are an AI-first law firm. And and every position in this law firm is going to be using AI. Um, and if you're not comfortable with that, then you know, we we probably need to think about you know, whoo-hig, woo-higgy one to uh, you know, a different law firm where you would be comfortable. I'm reluctant because what we're doing right now today, it's hard to comprehend. The stuff that most law firms need to be doing, we were doing, you know, 18, 24 months ago. So I tried to talk about what law firms should be doing now. Uh now, of course, there are definitely law firms that are at the cutting edge, but most law firms aren't there. Um, so they need to um uh you know, they they they need to start investigating um and uh and figuring out what AI tools are gonna work best for them. Um find the low-hanging fruit. It does not mean you need to bring in all this AI from top to bottom. You know, find find find something in intake, find find you know, some kind of AI automation. There's so many cool platforms out there. Um, and uh uh and start investigating and start rolling it out bit by bit. You have to encourage your your team to use um you know the LLNs, whether it's uh ChatGPT or Claude or Gemini or you know, there's a whole bunch of you have to start encouraging your team to using these. You have to make sure that you have the guardrails in place to use AI, you have to have an AI policy, you have to understand about client confidentiality, you have to understand about uh data security and privacy. Um, you know, these are all the things that you need to be doing now uh before you start getting into agentec AI and AI basically running your law firm.

Jason Lazarus 40:10

In doing a bit of research, uh my understanding is that you guys have done a lot of

What was the first workflow they automated?

Jason Lazarus 40:16

automation in addition to deployment of AI, which obviously is part of the whole technology um stack solution for a law firm. And I'm curious, what was the first workflow you guys ultimately automated and what did it teach you about where perhaps your firm was losing time and money?

Michael P. McCready 40:41

Going back to um understanding what your processes are, uh if something is done the same way every single time, you know, look for a way to automate it. If it's A, B, C, and D, you know, find a way to skip B and C, just go from A to D. Uh, we we've been very active for years about uh communicating with clients because one of the biggest criticisms of lawyers is I don't know what's going on with my case. So um one of the first automations that we started years ago, uh you settle a case and you tell the client, all right, it'll be 30 days for your check. So what happens, you know, one week later, is my check there? Is my check there? Is my check, you know, and uh you can't blame the client, but um, you know, that it that is a that is a huge time suck. You know, we're we're settling, you know, somewhere between 100 and 120 cases a month, if even one phone call. That's a hundred inbound calls, and it's not just one phone call. So uh that's the problem. What did we do to solve it? Uh what we did was create an automated sequence of texts. So there's a trigger. As soon as we mail the release to the insurance company, it starts a series of texts. The first text says, we mailed it to the insurance company, it can take up to 30 days. And the next one is maybe a week, and we at a week it'll say, Hey, it's been a week, just letting you know they, you know, and then 10 days. So we're texting them every two to three days over that 30-day period. And it's, hey, the mail came in today, your check wasn't there. Hey, we called the insurance company and we're checking on the status of your check and left a voicemail. Um, and and we're giving them proactively um all of this update for those for those 30 days. And not surprisingly, our inbound calls for where's the my check went down dramatically. So, with that model, we built it out through the entire life cycle of the case. So we're constantly keeping the clients up to date with what's going on with their case solely through automations, right? So, I mean, the plaintiff's deposition, you know, it's going to be in every single case. So we have a whole series of texts. You know, the defendant wants to take your deposition, you know, we'll let you know when the when the when the date is set. You know, here's what a deposition is. Your deposition is set 30 days out. Hey, just a reminder, your deposition's in 14 days. Another reminder, your deposition is in three days. Please call us to prepare. Deposition is tomorrow. Deposition is today in two hours. If you know, all of these things go out to a client, uh, and it's all automatic. So that's not AI, you know, that that's just programming automations. Um, but but if if you if you start thinking like that, then AI will make a lot more sense to you. Because AI, especially agencai, is uh is a computer pro that's not a program, but it's uh you know, it's it's uh it's a computer that is executing operations. Okay, it's given parameters, and this is what we want you to do, and this is how we want you to do it. And if this happens, then this is what's gonna happen. So it is similar to the idea of an automation, uh, but it's an automation on uh on steroids. And um so much of what we do and what our team does every day is relatively routine and uh and can be done. So something as simple as you have discovery from the defendant, uh And in the old days, you're going through the whole file and you're answering it. Well, you know, now AI can do that. You put the interrogatories into AI and it has access to your system and it gives you a pretty good first draft. Is that what we send out to the defense attorney? Absolutely not. The guardrails that we have in place absolutely require a human uh intervention and human approval. Uh, we have an audit trail for all the AI that we do uh to verify that what is being done is accurate. And everything that AI touches before it goes out the door, someone is taking ownership of that. Uh, it's absolutely essential. You you read about these hallucidated cases, and this is this is not this is not a surprise, folks, right? This happens. So, you know, the fact that it's still happening just absolutely blows my mind. I would like to say that it will never happen in my firm. Uh, I never say never, but the processes that we have in place to verify and to audit what we're doing, it would be highly unlikely that that would happen to our firm. Um, and and I've made it abundantly clear to everyone in the firm that if that were to ever happen, uh, that is instant termination. Okay, you will lose your job with one mistake.

Jason Lazarus 46:08

I'm curious about where in your process automation does

Where should AI touch the client journey, and where should it not?

Jason Lazarus 46:14

touch and where deliberately you've chosen it not to touch. So what what where in your process is it and where is it not?

Michael P. McCready 46:26

We already have it built out where AI will hold whole conversations with clients. Uh, we have AI that can do intake, we've got AI that can act as a case manager. Okay. Understand this is something that we have built out that will communicate and have a conversation with someone in the parameters that we have developed. Um, we have not, generally speaking, rolled that out, even though we have it, it's good, it's really good. The problem is, right now, as you and I talk, is that uh the general public has not embraced this. Uh, they have not, it is they're they they're just not used to it. Now, once once Target and American Express and all these other companies start rolling out voice agentic AI, and people are used to and accustomed to speaking to a computer, that's when we'll feel much more comfortable. Uh, the analogy that I like to use, we were using e-signatures before COVID, you know, and and we would only get 50% of the people that felt comfortable enough doing that. Then COVID came, and you know, everybody adopts uh electronic signature. And now, you know, it's just take it for granted. You know, everything we do is with electronic signature. So agentic AI and and client interactions, uh, it will become acceptable enough that uh that you know we'll be able to roll that out. We're we're already experimenting with after hours intake with um you know with uh with voice uh with voice uh uh chatbots. And you know, so far we've gotten a pretty good res uh pretty good reception.

Jason Lazarus 48:17

I think that there's some lawyers and competitors that worry that

Can AI coexist with legal judgment and instinct?

Jason Lazarus 48:23

automation and AI and technology can strip away the judgment and instinct that makes for a great advocate as a lawyer. How do you think about protecting the human-sided advocacy while trying to systematize everything around it?

Michael P. McCready 48:43

AI is just a tool. Okay, AI should be used to augment or to supplement a lawyer's judgment or a lawyer's skill. It is not meant to completely replace it. So uh, you know, AI will not replace lawyers. Uh lawyers that use AI will replace lawyers that don't use AI, you know, no doubt about it. Um, so I I I there is certainly, there is certainly plenty of room for very good lawyers. Um however, you know, AI is going to replace a lot of lawyers that you know that are replaceable. You know, you you look at uh you know the the things that AI can do right now um are what you know entry-level associates have always done. And uh, you know, especially in the billable hour firms, why would any consumer of legal services pay for an associate to do something when it can be done by AI? Now, yes, you you do want to make sure that the senior legal talent, you're gonna pay them, you're gonna pay them handsomely for their judgment on those things that do require judgment and advice. But for you know, routine matters, you know, no, AI is going to replace a lot of that.

Jason Lazarus 50:10

I'm curious if you'd be willing to share uh with listeners about the tech

Inside McCready Law’s custom tech stack and internal LLM

Jason Lazarus 50:16

stock that you currently deploy in your firm.

Michael P. McCready 50:20

Well, it's all custom, right? We've built it all out, but it's it's a lot of stuff that's layered on top of each other. Um we have we have our own internal LLM. Uh so imagine you know, Chat GPT that's based solely on you know our law firm, and and we have that segregated into silos. In fact, um one of the what one of the cool things that we've developed is with all my speaking um and all my transcripts and all my writing, I finished a book which is going to be released uh in in November. We have put all of that into an LLM, and now uh people can ask, you know, just like ChatGPT, and it will give them how I would have approached that response. Uh why is that important? Because all LLMs have a certain bias in them. And we were able to build out this particular LLM with me, with my biases. You know, we have firm values that are absolutely critical to our to our uh to our law firm. You know, we have those baked in. And when you have uh you know values, that's going to give you a different response. So for example, you know, one of our firm values is diversity. Now, I I know on the political climate right now that you know there's a lot of pushback against diversity. Well, you know, that is absolutely critical to who we are, is it is what my law firm is about. And by having that in, you know, our LLMs, uh, you know, and then then our other firm values, approachability, accessibility, creativity, things like that, you know, those are all the parameters by which my team can ask questions, and then the answer is going to come out. And that answer is going to be different than if you programmed your own LLM or if you asked ChatGPT. So um, so I I think that that's where that's where I think that um uh technology is going is that every business is going to be able to build out their own custom LLM um and and use it for those purposes. Uh, you know, we've got one for our for our HR department. So, you know, yes, we've got a handbook, but you know what? Our handbook is now in an LLM. And so instead of looking at the index or whatever, you know, now we just you know you type in a question. Does the firm uh close on Juneteenth? You just ask a question and boom, there's the answer, as opposed to going through the index and finding where are the firm holidays. So I you know that that's where I think uh that where I think most businesses are going to go. Then of course, you know, uh programming agetic AI. Uh but that's that's down the road for most firms.

Jason Lazarus 53:19

Michael, you've been very generous with your time. One last question, and I always ask it very open-ended,

What trial lawyers need to learn next

Jason Lazarus 53:26

so you can answer it however you want. As an experienced trial lawyer, as a leader of a firm that's grown and scaled, as someone who consults and speaks on these issues. What's your view as a trial lawyer?

Michael P. McCready 53:41

Well, you know, the most successful trial lawyers are lifelong learners. Okay. Um, and uh they I feel like uh trial lawyers need to apply that same uh instinct that they bring to uh trying a case uh to to understanding their business and understanding how technology is gonna impact it. You know, most most uh trial lawyers I know, you know, they read the treatises, right? They know the reptile theory, they know the rules of the road, running with the bulls, you name it. You know, they've read those books. They have invested in their uh their uh development as a trial lawyer. Um, I think that uh they need to apply that same uh uh uh seal to to learning about technology and how technology can be used. Now, I'm not saying that they're gonna become a computer programmer, but but they have to become tech conversant. Uh and so when they are talking to people, and and and you'd be surprised. Uh I one of the other presentations I do is how we use Chat GPT uh for trial from Voidir all the way to closing. And, you know, it gets a pretty good reception from trial lawyers, let's put it that way.

Jason Lazarus 55:00

So if anyone listening today has questions for you, wants to get in touch with

How to connect with Michael McCready

Jason Lazarus 55:06

you, wants to refer a case to your firm, what's the best way to get in touch with you?

Michael P. McCready 55:11

Yeah, sure. Um hopefully, you know, if my SEO company is doing their job, if you search McCready Law, I'm gonna come up. Uh if they if it doesn't, then I got to get a new SEO company. Um, but uh, but I'm also very active on LinkedIn. Um, I post a lot about uh about what we're doing, you know, what my thoughts are on the industry. Um and then I've got one of those really, really sneaky emails. It's Michael at McCready Law.com. So uh um yeah, I I always encourage people to reach out. Um and then uh, you know, Shameless Plunk, you know, we're we're a single event personal injury practice. Uh, we've got offices uh throughout the Midwest, and most of our cases come from referring attorneys from around the country. So uh uh those are those are the relationships that uh that we really try to foster to become the go-to referral partner in the Midwest.

Jason Lazarus 56:04

Michael, thank you for taking the time to join me today on Trial Law Review, and we'll see everybody on the next episode.

Michael P. McCready 56:11

Yeah, thanks, Chase. It's always a pleasure.

Jason Lazarus 56:13

If today's episode gave you a new perspective on how your firm operates or sparked a useful idea, consider sharing it with a colleague and be sure to follow the show so you don't miss future conversations with leaders across the personal injury space. Trial Review is brought to you by Synergy, a strategic operations partner helping personal injury law firms resolve healthcare leans more efficiently. If you're looking to accelerate case flow and allow your team to focus on high-level legal work that moves cases faster, consider partnering with Synergy. I'm Jason Lazarus, and I'll see you in the next episode.