Rooted and Real: Jamie Winslow on Clarity, Confidence, and Growing Without Losing Yourself

What does it really mean to step into your purpose - not just as a coach, but as a fully aligned, whole person?

In this episode, Brandon sits down with Jamie Winslow - a Jay Shetty certified coach, community builder, and proud mom with over 15 years of real-world leadership experience. Their conversation is equal parts practical and deeply personal, covering everything from the inner work of building confidence to the very real challenges that come with building a life after divorce.

Jamie opens up about her own journey to clarity and alignment, how she learned to overcome imposter syndrome as a growing coach, and why sustainable growth - the kind that doesn't cost you your wellbeing - is the only growth worth chasing. She and Brandon also get honest about relationships, compatibility, and the boundaries that have to be set when you're building something meaningful.

Whether you're a coach, an entrepreneur, or someone navigating a major life transition, this conversation will meet you right where you are.

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Transcript

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Welcome back to the Clarity Confidence and Growth Podcast. I'm your host, Brandon Sanderson, and today I have an incredible guest joining us, Jamie Winslow. Jamie is a Jay Shetty certified coach, just like myself, who has spent over 15 years in community management, building real leadership from the ground up. She's also a proud mom to a wonderful boy, which gives her such a grounded real perspective on everything she does. Today, Jamie works with new coaches to help them build their business. businesses with confidence. She also helps parents step into alignment in their lives, their roles, and their purpose. Jamie, welcome to the show. So happy to have you here. here. Thanks, Brandon. I'm really excited to be here. So what does a typical week look like for you? And tell us a bit more about yourself and what you like to do, it's hobbies So I I am born and raised in the Bay Area here in California. So some of my hobbies include spending time outside. We have so many great locations locally, whether that's heading to the bay, heading into the hills for you know, a nice hike. My son and I love to ride our bikes, go to the beach. So definitely lots of outdoor hobbies, enjoy spending time in the sun, in the fresh air, and even up, in the mountains in the winter to to hit the snow. Another fun fact about me is I'm a big animal lover. Right now I have a cat, but most of my life I've had lots of different pets. I even was a dog trainer for a period of time after college. So um big animal lover and I'm hoping to pass all that on to my son as well. Yeah, I think that's beautiful to pass on to your son. I love animals as well. And I think just those outdoor hobbies too. Like it's so indoor video games, all that stuff these days. It's so nice to see the amount of time you guys spend outside to really get that serotonin boost. I think it's so important. Oh, when did you first realize you needed more clarity in your own life or work? Well in life it was several years ago I was in my marriage still and I was realizing that I was not happy. And I think like for many people that sneaks up on you. So One of the reasons that I focus on alignment, whether that's supporting parents or whether that's supporting other coaches who are building their business, is because when we don't put intention towards staying in alignment as we move through life, as we build something, as we create a relationship and a family, then we risk the chance of stepping out of our path and not noticing And then continuing on a path where in the beginning it might be just slightly off, but as time goes, it becomes more and more out of alignment. So personally, I noticed this years ago and took many steps towards getting myself reconnected again and back into a life that fulfills me and allows me to live my values and my passions and my purpose. Professionally, it was more recent. as you mentioned, I have worked in community a very long time. And so there's a lot of Fulfillment. There's a lot of reward that can come from connecting with other people, especially in the health and wellness industry, where people are wanting to better their lives and they have these great goals to become healthier, to live more fully, get stronger, all of those things. So I think that there was a lot of alignment within that. It was really some more recent changes within that particular organization that. led me to identifying it was no longer a fit. And so it was actually twenty twenty five when I left my career and dove full time into coaching. Yeah, it's really funny, uh, 'cause if you didn't know listening, me and Jamie actually pretty much went full in on this a month apart. And you know, I think too with the backstory, do you think that that relationship ending was kind of just the start of that self growth and then moving into your job not aligning? Like do you think there's any connection there? absolutely. I I think, you know, we say this in coaching all the time, but it's like um you can't unsee things. Right. so once you start to really open your eyes internally as well as externally, you you just can't unsee things. And so once you know what in your life is Causing that friction or misalignment or stress, then it's just something you're constantly aware of, and that's either going to build, or it's something that you can take action on and start to correct or recover depending on what's the right fit for the situation. For sure and I think that's really how it happens. You really start that action in like a relationship ending or something like that and it kinda just continues. I think back to very similar relationship ended. I was really hard with myself and then turned around and started this self growth, self discovery and then the jobs started to not align anymore. And, you know, I think it is that one kind of action piece that then starts that kind of rolling down of action to really get to where you're meant to be and I that. It starts somewhere and then you kinda realize how all these things kind of led together to get you on the path your home. What's your relationship with confidence been like throughout your own journey and throughout these years? interesting question. so when I reflect way back to a much younger me, I was not confident. I actually had very low self-esteem when I was younger. Sometimes people are surprised to hear that because it's something that I've built over years. but I didn't have a lot of self-worth. I really focused on wanting to fit in. You know, those were some of the keys uh or common patterns in my childhood and and even younger adulthood. you know, even in college there were a lot of patterns around not feeling like I was bringing much to the table. I and so I think that getting into the workforce was a significant pivot for me. You know, you start to see results from the effort that you take, you start to see impact from your work. Whether that's for the organization, whether that's for colleagues, whether that's for the clients you're serving. And so I think that that was a big contributor. And then I think the other part was sloughing off some relationships over time where you have started to grow. This is goes back to the growth journey, but like you have started to grow and move forward. and maybe that other person hasn't or isn't or doesn't want to. And so not in an unkind way, but really just in a self-care kind of way, you start to see which relationships in your life drain you, which relationships in your life fill you. who is curious and learning and challenging themselves, and who is repeating old patterns, who's having the same conversation every time you talk to them. You know, I think that part of my journey was also about finally getting real about who in my life was contributing and who was maybe. Holding me back. And again, not intentionally, not with malice, just different people on different paths. And so that started sort of after college, continued into my adulthood, and into you know, other relationships as well. So I think that once you start taking action like that, where You know what you need, you know what's good for you, and you start making decisions around that, that will actually build confidence. You need to be taking action to build confidence. And the action is about supporting yourself, giving yourself what you need, seeing your own worth and value. so it's grown quite a bit over time. And I think I present fairly confident. And there's still nerves around certain things. And so I also just want to be super clear that, you know, we're not robots. We're not expected or intended to be robots. So even a confident person can get nervous getting on stage or can get nervous going into a particular conversation with a partner or a child or whatever. going into an interview, right? So I'm really big on Feeling the feelings, acknowledging what they are, and then still moving forward and trying to do the right thing for you. a big part of that is the confidence does come with that growth. I think it's realizing about who's good for you, knowing that certain people are only for seasons. And I think that's a big part of what I love so much about you is you're so real about the journey and so real about, you know, we're not robots. It does take time, you know, normalizing how that kind of beginning goes. Um it was it was eye opening to me. I think to to give some context, when me and Jamie first met, I thought like, my God, Jamie has this amazing coaching business. Like there's no way we can ever really connect and talk. And, you know, we started normalizing with the beginning is like and realized we have very similar ways that we're kind of running our businesses and the ways that we kind of started for and at first I had such imposter syndrome and nerves about it, and it's like, no, you've got to be real. And since I've gotten real and showed up on the 60% days, showed up on up on things aren't hundred percent, and really just pushed through those nerves of ooh, this feels uncomfortable. So much has opened up, my confidence has opened up, my voice and speaking to other approaches and on this journey together has changed. And I think it is all about work that you put into yourself to push past those nerves and be like you know what okay these nerves are here I feel them I feel that feeling but we need to on because this is what we want. And I call them my heartbeat of like your body cheering for you to keep going instead of it being a uh negative feeling having it as okay that's my body cheering me forward to keep moving keep moving. I love that reframe. So great. What's a pattern that you keep seeing either with your clients or maybe someone close to you that maybe has them struggle to come back to themselves or struggle to get that confidence to kind of move forward? Well, I mean, with coaches, the challenge in the beginning is exactly what you just said. I think everybody feels a bit of an imposter, right? This is new, it's unfamiliar, it's no different than the first time we've done anything else in our lives, you know? it's like think about the first day of school every year. The first day of school every year, if you were anything like me, you have nerves in your stomach, you're not really sure how it's gonna go. And yet you have to go. and so I think about, you know, all the other things that we've done that have been unfamiliar or were nerve wracking in the beginning. And and you know when that comes up for me, that that's what I think too. I think to the past. I think to what we've done, what I've been through that's already gotten better over time and from taking that action. So the pattern that I see is coaches holding back because of that, right? And I love the statement we are the only ones holding us back. Because it's so true. So when we hold back because it feels uncomfortable or because we think we're not ready. That's another big one that I see. I also see a lot of like continuing education becomes a bit of a shield, right? let me go get this next certification. Oh you know what let me finish this program before I do XYZ I'm gonna get my ACC. I'm gonna do this. And all of those things are great things. So please don't misunderstand me. We absolutely should continue to invest in ourselves and our journey. That's a big part of being a good coach. it's when we use it as a reason to wait or a reason we aren't ready to serve that we are doing ourselves and our potential clients a disservice. So those are the moments I try to step in and help the coach see that they're capable of more than they think, you know, and that they're ready to have the conversation. reflecting back on a conversation I had with a coach, I think a month or so ago, she was basically telling me this. She said she wasn't sure she was the right person, the right coach for this client. And so I said, okay, well, tell me about it. And we dug into it. And she told me about the client and the history. And there's some really powerful emotional experiences that this client has been through. So I understand the coach may be having nerves around that. Some uncharted territory is always gonna be a little bit disarming and you know, might create some insecurities. But when we went deeper, I asked her, so who else is gonna help her? Like who else does she talk to? Who else would she go to? And basically the coach said, no one. She has no one. And so we essentially landed with the coach that this client is willing to talk to is the right coach for her. Because she doesn't have anyone else to talk to. She's not an open person. She doesn't just go around sharing her challenges willy-nilly. So if she's chosen you to open up to then you're the trusted resource. And it's like if someone knocked on your door and said, my gosh, I need your help, would you say, No, I don't think I can help you and close the door. So it was a really great conversation because at the end of the day she realized it's so much less about her experience, her certifications, and it's so much more about our presence and our just ability to serve and hold space for that other person. Yeah, and I think that's so important. I reflect back and resonate with a client I had that we were doing website work and then he wanted to take a break because his landscaping business really picked up, so he's like, Well, I'm like going through starting a new relationship and stuff like that. So we started shifting to that and like what do I know about that? but we have a great session every week and it's not always about the topic and you being an expert in that topic, it's about that person having someone that's a safe space that they can connect with. with you once a week for that hour and just feel heard and feel seen. So I love that. I think that's a great way to help build that confidence back because that's gonna build confidence in just that coach but also in that client. So you're getting that learning while doing the work. And I think that's one of the big pieces I love about this work is it's not just you're teaching your client or you're helping support your client in learning something about themselves. You're digging in and learning so much about you every single day. There's something new. Like yesterday I had a rough day and my nose ring fell out. I started real late. I got started super late in the day, but I was like, well, I could have just not got up and then nothing would have happened and it wouldn't have been a day at all, right? So I think, you know, that's wouldn't have been my reframe before and now with all this work and inner work, it's became my reframe. So the confidence you can get From being that person to others and just learn so much about you is so powerful in this industry. Yeah, such a great example. So I know we've talked a lot about growth and about uh our growth that we've had and our journeys. what do you think sustainable growth looks like versus the kind that burns people out? Well, I mean I think a lot of things uh contribute to that. One is what you just said. It's basically grace, right? So no growth is linear. You're gonna have those days where you're like, my gosh, everything's clicking, it's all coming together. Amazing. And literally the very next day, or even halfway through that day, something else could slide in and it feels like you've shifted backwards again. So Knowing that that's gonna happen rather than pretending like everything's gonna be perfect and once you're on the track, you just keep moving up. I think that's really important because that also allows you to give yourself grace in those moments. and hopefully you are giving yourself grace. I know that I've done much more of that on this journey than I used to as well. So what you just shared absolutely is reflective of my life as well. So giving yourself grace, I think is really important. I also think it's really, really critical to not try to change too much at once, right? We talk about this all the time in coaching. I can't coach you on three different topics today. It's not going to move any of them forward. and even over the course of several weeks, if we're bouncing around, we're not making meaningful impact in any one area, right? It doesn't mean we can't handle something else that comes up. Like you said, that client, you guys shifted from website into relationships. But my take from your example is that then you've stayed sort of on that topic for a bit now. So I think one growth area at a time is really important to set yourself up for success. and And I think also being really clear about like why do you want to make this change? If this change is not in alignment with your values and your vision for your life and your personal goals, then you're gonna be hitting friction the whole way. If you're trying to change for somebody else, or if you think that this is what you're supposed to do because of some external standard or pressure. Those are the ways to burn out with growth because you I don't want to say you're doing it for the wrong reasons, but you're not doing it for the reasons that will actually propel you through those tough times. You know, when when you have those days like you said yesterday, or those moments where I have felt like I'm sliding back, you know, climbing out and then sliding back is the visual in my head If there was any external source that was the the reason I was trying to climb out, I would have just stayed in the hole, you know? Like, but it's my own goal, it's my own desire to live intentionally in the way that I want to live, that tells me, okay, you can take a set back, just gotta keep climbing. And and so that really has to come from within. It does. And you really have to when the slips happen, see like the call or the connection as a win. Like you need to really change your mindset. And I think that is a big thing that I know both me and you are learning is that, you know, we both came from corporate roles where we were in comfy positions. And I think it is learning that, you know, that connection, that lead, means more than it ever did being in that corporate world. And that's so much more for you now and for yourself and for anything to move forward to get your business off the ground. And I think that's what's really been my mindset shift and really been what's helped kind of keep coming out of that hole is that you know, okay, when this next connection call happens and turns into a lead, like, this is a great new connection for another client, like that's is helping my business grow. And it's just about taking those little wins. wins and really making them powerful. Like I think, you know, you say it really well and you're measuring what matters. You it's not all about the revenue, it's about measuring those metrics that are helping get that impressions, get those leads, get more people looking into your content. Yeah, thank you for connecting that. I think it is really important to understand, you know, what gets us the outcomes we're looking for because then we'll know where to put our energy. Yeah, and it feels good so you know it's what you want to love that. Tell me about a season in your life where you feel you grew the most and what do you think made that possible? Hmm. Hmm. I feel like there's a few. And Two of them that came up are seasons where I was going through coaching. So I think that's pretty relevant for us. The first season, the first time I was ever exposed to coaching was actually when I was getting back into the dating world post-divorce. And I realized very quickly that I did not know what I was doing. Everything had changed. it was terrifying. Yeah. And I just I was kind of like, I don't I don't know what to do. I don't know what to do with all of this. So started you know, looking for help. I think that's what a lot of people do when they realize, hmm, things aren't going well or maybe I need a little help. They start looking. And so I found a dating coach that resonated with me. I really enjoyed their, you know, approach and personality and messaging. And so I was consuming a fair amount of their content, but ultimately I did sign up for their program. And so I went through modules and attended live calls and things like that. And there are absolutely things that I learned in that program or that I identified in that program that are still present for me when it comes to relationships and building relationships and. you know, setting standards or boundaries, having just gone through a breakup recently, even handling that and even how to move through it after, all came back to that program. and one of the things that that program did really well was to help make sure you knew why you were doing this, you know. So again, it comes back to what's the internal driver here? And are you out there dating because you just want some company? Like maybe you're lonely and you just want someone to go to a movie with and you just want someone to go have dinner with and like that's fine. There is no there's no judgment. There's no right or wrong. It's just about knowing what you actually want and what you're trying to achieve. or maybe you're actually looking for someone to get married to and have kids and and build the whole the whole family. That's a very different goal. And so you just need to be really clear on what you want so that you can better assess whether the other person is on the same page as you and ultimately you're figuring out long-term compatibility. And so that was another thing that really struck me is when we're younger, I don't think we really understand what compatibility is. I know I didn't. Uh you know, I was thinking things like, we like the same type of music or, you know, we enjoy you know, some some of the same sports or, you know, we like some of the same foods, or we both we're both family people. Some of those things can translate into long-term compatibility because they can build other passions and other hobbies and activities around them. but others are not. And when I went through this program, I literally said to friends, I think every 16-year-old should go through this because what a different world we all could have experienced in our dating and relationships if we had been exposed to. this level of, you know, self-identity and reflection and life goals at a younger age and also things like your standards and setting boundaries and how to communicate clearly and dating is something that brings up so many emotions, deep-seated emotions sometimes. And how do you navigate that without putting kind of your history on somebody else? And I think you said something very important too is you know, you have to let the person know what your goals are. And I think sometimes too it's about letting people know what your end goals are, but maybe that right now those goals can't be met. Like that it's not any time in the future that that's happening. And I think that's one of the big things I'm finding in dating right now is I'll be like, yeah, I do want a family and kids and a husband one day. But right now I'm trying to start a business. So right now it would just be whatever little free time I have, trying to make connection, trying to grow that. And it's gonna be a slow kind of journey to the end goal. And I think that's tough for some people people and it's hard in the dating world and it's hard too because people haven't gone through like you have with the dating course or gotten self aware and really protect the program self. So it's hard when somebody like you or I go into that dating scene and have this boom boom boom of what we're going for, it's almost like, Well, they don't know how to take that or don't know what to do with that. So I think you're very right. There should be way more of that as sixteen year olds are in school being taught. I think would be very helpful. Yeah, I do too. Especially now that there's just less connection and and less interaction, you know, in general. thank you for sharing that. I think what I wanna just highlight is You acknowledging that you don't have the time to commit to that intention, right? So if you want to find a partner and ultimately build a relationship to then start a family, that is gonna take a lot of intention. It's gonna take time and energy and an open heart and patience and all of these things that while you're building your business, a lot of those you will be, you know, um prioritizing towards your business. And so there'd be a level of unfairness in a way towards trying to start such a potentially serious relationship. And I can definitely resonate with that. I think when we're building our businesses. We're all sacrificing something. And so this is another thing that I don't know if we get really real about it. So, you know, are you sacrificing your free time because you're building this on the side? So you've got your nine to five, plus you're building your business. That's sacrificing your free time, or that might be sacrificing time with your friends or your family. or are you sacrificing, you know, income? Because you're gonna go ahead and just pull the plug and jump in, and that means you're gonna be living like really tight for a while, you know, or or other sacrifices too. maybe you start by actually not building your own business and working for someone else. And so the sacrifice is maybe a little less pay, maybe a little less autonomy, things like that. But I think everybody is sacrificing something to get started. And if we haven't checked in with ourselves and made sure that we understand the sacrifice and that we're okay with the sacrifice and that we have a plan for how to get out of that, then it's another opportunity to end up in a place where we've gone too far and we don't we're not happy with where we are. Yeah, I think it's really important to stay self aware on that too, so you don't go too far of somewhere where you don't wanna be. And I think that is also difficult to if you're doing the business and trying to start a relationship, like is something gonna start unaligning and you're not gonna know because you have so many things going on, right? So I think that's part of the reason why I have put it on the back burner, just because I'm like, I don't know that I'll capture all those red flags by doing everything I'm doing. Like I could see that flying through because I'm not putting enough attention to know that this is a red flag. So I think that's a very valid point. You still need to make sure you're being aware when you're meeting and if it's something you can't do, then yeah, you have to put that on the pause while you kind of get the business growing and in knowing that there's a goal for that to happen so that you can move on to the other goals that you have. have. Mm-hmm. So Jimmy, what's the most important lesson you've learned as a coach so far? And what's something you wish more people understood about coaches do? There's a lot. I think Yeah, there's a lot. There's um I mean, I think we learn about coaching, but there's also we've already touched on this, but we learn a lot about ourselves as well along the way. So I I feel like that has to be the most important thing because if we're continuing To learn about ourselves and challenge ourselves in new ways, keep growing, that's what's gonna stay with us forever. That's the ultimate gain. So I think the most important thing I've I've learned through coaching is that I'm on a journey too. And while I'm coaching and supporting other people on theirs, I also need to recognize and make space for my own journey at the same time. Never stop that growth journey. Yeah. And yeah, what's something you wish more people understood about what coaches actually do? Mm. Hmm. It's so funny. I feel like um I think I have a post coming up on this this week. That's true. Yeah. it is a difficult thing to explain sometimes. Like that's that's kind of the nature of of my post is how friends, family, you know, colleagues or ex-colleagues can give you that kind of cock. head funny look when you say, oh yeah, I'm a coach and they're like, What? Like, what does that mean? What do you do? So I think one of the things that I'd like more people to understand about coaching is That it's really like limitless. People are always trying to define it, right? This is what I do, this is how I do it. But I really wish more people understood that coaching is really limitless. I think that the opportunity for how a client can benefit from coaching is only limited by how much they are willing to open up and invite change and invite growth and be really honest and vulnerable with themselves. as well as the coach is the other potential limiting factor. And so if a coach can come into a conversation and just, as we know, all the things, remain curious, you know, self-manage, hold space, allow the navigation to be led by the client. I I think it's limitless. And if you've had a conversation where a client has just like bared their soul and just been really willing to open up layer by layer, uncovering whether it's old patterns, limiting beliefs, identities that they're still holding on to, I mean, you're basically seeing the raw materials that this person has to work with. And you can see them start to put things back together in a new way, in a way that they want to see themselves, in a way that they want to live life. So coaching is pretty powerful. it's highly underrated. And I certainly wish I knew about it earlier in my life. Yeah, I wish I did as well and I think that's a great point that you brought up is I think if the coach is open and honest and is vulnerable with sharing their selves with their clients, that client is gonna feel like it's an open space for them to be able to share as well. And I think you're right, it does come from that coach to be that open door, I think of my corporate world of like open door policy or like having that real like open and always there for you approach. And I think of all the teams I led and the way that I had the support and the trust of my team was because they knew I was open and real with them just as much as they could be open and real with me and it's very groundbreaking to then use that in a coaching realm to support people in figuring out those kind of blind spots or areas that they maybe haven't uncovered yet and really work through those Challenges and see that growth from them and that's the reason I really love the tagline the clarity, confidence, and growth, because you get that clarity, then build the confidence in it, and then that growth is really that consistent piece that keeps you kind of growing. so rapid fire questions, Jamie, so what's one book, resource or tool you'd recommend to anyone starting uh their journey? Absolutely the prosperous coach, hands down. I agree. I have been loving that book. I'm about fifty percent of the way through it. And it's been so good. I literally have mine right here. wow. Yeah, I'm doing the audio book from the library right now, but it is a book that I have been thinking of buying. So What's something you're currently working on or are excited about? great question. I am actually working on a new series of workshops. So I've done like these one off workshops. You mentioned measuring what matters earlier. and thank you so much for attending. I'm glad you found value in that. But I'm currently working on designing a series of workshops so that they'll feed together. And one of the things that so many coaches are bringing up right now in the community is designing their offer and then presenting their offer. And this is a big, you know, we talked earlier about sort of the discomfort that coaches go through and the things we have to kind of push through. This is one of them. Practicing our pitch, making the ask, whatever phrase you want to use to describe it. it's something that if we don't practice, we don't get better at. So I don't know if it's gonna be two or three parts yet. Still still in the design phase, but I'm excited because it feels like this is something that's really needed by the community. And I really love to respond to their requests and and interests and support them where they are, right? Which is what coaching is all about. It is. And that's awesome and exciting. I think, you know, you touched on it earlier when you said, you know, coaches often get stuck in the learning and then not moving forward. And, you know, one of the first conversations I had with Jamie was that, you know, I just am gonna finish my learning before I get going. And now I'm looking at hosting a workshop on Jay Shetty. I want to get on a community platform of some sort, a QA, like to at least go over like questions and answers that new coaches have about tech and just really get stuff out there. It's like, okay, yeah, the learning's happening, but I need to to get moving while this is going. That's just an excuse. So, that's awesome. I can't wait to see the workshop you put together in the multipart. I think that's super cool from going from just a one-off workshop to something that's in a series. Like that's definitely the next step. So that's awesome. I can't wait to see that. where can people uh find you and connect with you? Yeah, I'm primarily on LinkedIn. So if you just look me up, Jamie Winslow, or if you look up Coaching with Jamie, that's my profile. And I also do have profiles on Facebook and Instagram, but those just aren't the spaces that I do most of my connections and posting in. But if you want to connect with me in those spaces, I'm happy to follow you. I'm happy to check out what you're doing. So don't hesitate. Those are both under Coaching with Jamie. I'll have uh Jamie's Instagram and her LinkedIn in the show notes as well if you'd like to follow. Any final thoughts or words of encouragement for the listeners today? I just want to say thank you guys if you stuck through the conversation. I hope that you took something out of it. And I encourage you just to keep having conversations. I think that's one of the things that I've really learned along the way. Whether you're having conversations with other coaches, having conversations with people in your network, you know, friends and family, potential clients, you just keep having conversations, keep building trust, keep practicing. Talking about what you do, the more you talk about it, the more you embody it, the more it comes to life, but also it gets refined. And you'll notice that as you start explaining what you do or who you serve, it becomes easier. And you also end up finding kind of like, what are those keywords that matter to me? So keep having conversations and keep growing, keep learning. I would be remiss not to invite everyone to check out our community. I know Brandon's a big, big part of that community. We have Coach's Community, it's a free space. We hold free connection calls, free inspiration calls, and lots of other free workshops like the one that we mentioned today earlier. So Coaches Community, which all of that can also be found through my LinkedIn page. It's a great space to connect with new coaches, tenure coaches, kind of all realms of different coaches. So that will be in the link in the show notes as well for the coach community page. It is great for all coaches and like Jamie said, lots of free resources there. I also liked how Jamie mentioned the growth. Growth is so important and getting your niche or what you're going to say is like a pitch downpacked. You can do that in the mirror by yourself. In a setting, just talking to your phone screen, like on a video that you don't post to like see how did that sound, what can I refine? It doesn't have to be with people. Get creative and just get that messaging clear for when you are out there in front of people. Thank you so much, Jamie, for being here with us today. It was so great to have you on the podcast. And I can't wait to keep connecting, collaborating, and growing together as coaches. Absolutely. Thank you for having me, Brandon, Don't forget to subscribe so you'll see our next episode that will be out in two weeks on Wednesday. Also, if you want to follow along on my coaching journey and while I build Bransand Solutions and Services, you can follow us on Instagram at bransand.s.s, TikTok, or Facebook, Bransand Solutions and Services. Thank you so much for being here and supporting my new journey of hosting. The Clarity Confidence and Growth Podcast. And just in case you forgot, I see you, I believe in you, and I'm cheering you on. Until next time.