Bible Study Podcast

Can a Christian Be Demon Possessed?

• Darren Rouanzoin, Angela Halili

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Can a Christian be possessed? What does demonization actually mean? And what do you do when someone needs more than encouragement — they need deliverance? This episode walks through Mark 5, where a man possessed by a legion of demons encounters Jesus, and builds a practical, grounded theology of demonic activity, freedom, and the authority Jesus has given His followers.

In this episode:
• The literary setup of Mark 4 and 5 — why the storm and the demoniac are connected
• Demonization vs. possession: what the Greek actually says and what • • • • • • Hollywood gets wrong
• Six levels of demonic influence every believer should understand
• How habitual sin, addiction, and unbroken agreements open doors to the demonic
• A practical deliverance prayer model drawn from Catholic, Pentecostal, and charismatic traditions
• Personal stories of real demonic encounters — and how Jesus showed up every time
• Why the greatest wounds in your life might become the very thing He uses to set others free

This series is sponsored by Logos Bible Software — and all three of us genuinely use it. Whether you're trying to go deeper in Scripture, prep for teaching, or just slow down and actually understand what you're reading, Logos is the tool. It gives you context, original language insights, commentaries, and more, all in one place. It's not a shortcut — it's a companion. You can try it free for 60 days through our partner link below.

📖 Try Logos free for 60 days: https://logos.com/biblestudypdcst

Hosted by:
Pastor Darren Rouanzoin — https://www.instagram.com/darrenr
Angela Halili — https://www.instagram.com/angelahalili
Elijah Lamb — https://www.instagram.com/elijah.lamb

#BibleStudy #SpiritualWarfare #ChristianPodcast #Faith #Deliverance #Jesus #BibleStudyPodcast

SPEAKER_04

Some issues with the neighbor, and I'm putting like prayer sticks in the grid. What else are you gonna do? That's some biblical stuff for that.

SPEAKER_00

Hi guys, I'm lamb.

SPEAKER_04

I'm Darren, I'm Elijah.

SPEAKER_00

And this is the Bible study podcast. We are here to continue our spiritual warfare series. We have our friend Elijah Lamb. That's his real last name. I still think about it all the time. Like it's just iconic. Also, your wedding photos are some of the most beautiful, holy things. Have you seen his wedding photos? They're absolutely beautiful.

SPEAKER_03

Did you see the video? No, I don't think I saw the video. No, I didn't post it. Was it in a Catholic church? Is it an Episcopal church?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, see, that's where I gotta get married. You gotta get married in a church like that.

SPEAKER_03

It's really cheap too, so but we had a harpist and a celloist playing. That's too much. So it was like the most beautiful. My wife walked down the aisle to a song from Braveheart.

SPEAKER_04

What?

SPEAKER_03

No. Yeah, The Princess for the Love of a Princess. No. And then we left together to Princess Leia's theme. That's it's probably my Braveheart's in my top threes.

SPEAKER_04

And then Princess Leia, is she into Star Wars?

SPEAKER_03

Okay, so can I can I tell this story right now? Is this okay? Yeah. Okay, so my wife and I are like, I was in charge of the music for the wedding. Like that was one of my things that I got to be. So I made all the presents for everything. Like I made the DJ set for the everything, like literally everything. So when we're working with this harpis and cello, so like we're going through songs, and I told her, like, my dream is for my groomsman to walk down the aisle to concerning hobbits from the Lord of the Rings. So this harp is the cello bus sort of. Yes, on the harp on the harp. Yes, absolutely. It was amazing. I was having so much fun. It was like the vibe of our writing was just so jovial. Like I just was like laughing with my friends at the altar because that's just who I am. And then my wife is like, okay, but no more nerdy songs. But then we're like going through songs, and there's all these nerdy movies that I've showed her where I like we'll play the song from like the set list that the Harvest of songs that they can play together. And I'm playing one. She's like, wow, that's really pretty. Where's that from? And I was like, Star Wars? And she she yeah, yeah, right. And she's like, Oh, I love it so much, though. And so it was her idea. She did it. She picked the Braveheart song, she picks the Star Wars song. Let's go. And I was like, Yeah, my wife for a woman.

SPEAKER_04

So it was beautiful. My wife's so beautiful. I've still not seen any Star Wars.

SPEAKER_00

I have not seen one Star Wars movie, and I never will. Oh gosh. It's just like, you know, when you go too long with a movie. What do you mean you never will be?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, that's a stronghold in your life. I think we need to break that. That's a demon as my never will.

SPEAKER_00

I never will.

SPEAKER_03

Only a siff deals and absolutely. There's some new ones here.

SPEAKER_00

There's no point. It's just like I'm I'm I've gone my whole life without watching them. What am I gonna start now? No.

SPEAKER_03

I've gone my whole life without reading Shakespeare. Like, what am I gonna do to read Shakespeare now?

SPEAKER_04

I don't want to like bring your judgment into this conversation, but I'm definitely judging. Just you know, because I watch, you know, I watch Gilmore Girls, like which is a great show by far the worst show I've ever seen. Oh my gosh, it's awful. It's there's no plot, it's the same conversation.

SPEAKER_03

There's not one enjoyable character.

SPEAKER_00

How many seasons is it? Too many, too many, like 20.

SPEAKER_04

And I will say, I will watch that with my wife. I've watched it multiple times.

SPEAKER_03

Gilmore Girls is just Twilight with no vampires. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Wow, that is.

SPEAKER_03

Which is like if you took Twilight and made it less interesting.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04

It's a great illustration. I love it. Okay, we're gonna jump in.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, we are.

SPEAKER_04

We're talking about demons, we're talking about Jesus' ministry. We've done a bunch of stuff, but we're gonna zero in. And I want to actually frame this one because today is really about demonization, and we'll define that word in a little bit. But can we start by setting up the scene for a very famous story in the gospels? And it's the the the man who's possessed by legion, by demons. Yes. And but the setup in Mark's gospel, and remember, we talked about this last week that Mark kind of frames the ministry of Jesus as preaching the kingdom and then deliverance of evil spirits. Mark sets this story up in a very dramatic way, and I want you to see it in a unique way today. Will you read Mark chapter four, verses 35 through 41? We're gonna read the intro, we're gonna get to chapter five.

SPEAKER_00

I love this story.

SPEAKER_04

All of all of the spiritual warfare talks are provided, uh sponsored by Lagos Bible Software. And here's one of the things that I love. Like when you dive into studying scripture, like you're gonna need resources because you can just read this and you just read over it, and that's fine. But when you start reading commentaries, when you start diving into literary content and the way that Mark sets up stories, like you'll see there's a connection, there's a direct connection to what happens right before chapter five, right? And I always say in our church, hey, what comes before chapter five? And they're like, chapter four. That's exactly my point. Like, you can't just read one section isolated. You need to kind of read it in context. What happened before, what happens after? Logos is a tool that you should use. You should download it. We we keep saying this, we'll have the ads on there. We all use this resource when we study scripture. We have some some great resources. You have free access, a 60-day trial. All those things are going on. We're thankful for their partnership with this podcast right now. Yeah. But would you read this? And then I want to teach, I kind of want to teach through it.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, absolutely. All right, this is Mark chapter 4, verse 35, NIV version. Jesus calms the storm. That day, when evening came, he said to his disciples, Let us go over to the other side. Leaving the crowd behind, they took him along just as he was in the boat. There were also other boats with him. A furious squall came up, and the waves broke over the boat so that it was nearly swamped. Jesus was in the stern, sleeping on a cushion. The disciples woke him and said to him, Teacher, don't you care if we drown? He got up, rebuked the wind, and said to the waves, Quiet, be still. Then the wind died down and it was completely calm. He said to his disciples, Why are you so afraid? Do you still have no faith? They were terrified and asked each other, Who is this? Even the wind and the waves obey him.

SPEAKER_03

How did that translate verse 37? A furious squall? Yeah, this a furious squall came up. Squaw a furious squall. Squall. Yeah. What do you mean? Yeah. I just think that's so silly. Uh a great windstorm.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, so it is a squall. Like uh No, no, I just think I've never heard that before. I didn't know. The Sea of Galilee is 730 something feet below sea level, and it's surrounded by mountaintops, right? And it's very common for winds to come from the top and create like chaotic storm on the Sea of Galilee. So that was super common. But I want to frame this for that's what a squall is. A squall is like a storm, yeah, like a mini storm, a wind storm, waves splashing. Hey, I'm building my vocabulary. You didn't know that. Have you not seen White Squall? I've never even heard of that. That's a movie. Yeah, again. I know a lot of movies. That was my childhood. Anyways, I want to frame the story of the Legion with this story because we always, you know, hear the teaching, like, oh, Jesus is in the boat. Get to the other side. Like, he'll calm the storms of your life. Like, that's I'm doing some like bad teacher of joke. But but this, this actually, like, there's so many layers to this. Like, Jesus tells the disciples to go to the other side. What's the other side? Well, the other side is like Gentile territory, marked by pagan worshippers, worshiping demons, like unclean, unclean animals, unclean activity. So on the other side is not where Jewish boys and girls want to go. So that's the first thing. The second, you never go across uh the Sea of Galilee. You would, as fishermen, you would stay along the shore. So again, there's another thing. And you would never go at night. Yeah. That was not a common thing. So all these things are very uncommon in the story. So, like the superstition and fear that's emerging from the disciples who are professional boatsmen, some of them, are is legit. Not just that, in the Jewish consciousness, the sea, we already talked about this, represents chaos. It's it's it's a territory that's like possessed by demons in their mindset or monsters at the at the worst, like Leviathan. Like it represents the anti-God, like the chaotic waters is all over the Old Testament. So they're they have like all these natural superstitions that they've learned since they were kids. Like, don't go to the other side, don't go out to the chaotic sea, which is you know, oppressed by other gods, lowercase gods or demons. All of that's going on, and that's exactly what Jesus asked them to do. Wow, war zone. Yeah, it's a war zone. Then they go, and what happens? There is a giant storm, and there's this massive, they're about to die, they're gonna drown. So, like all of the things that they were afraid of, yep, it's coming true. Wow, and what's Jesus doing? He's sleeping, and they wake them up not because they think, oh, this is a guy who can do something about it, but get the water out of that. How do we know? Because they say, Who is this? Which is a theme in the gospel of Mark. Mark will ask this question, it's a literary tool where he's getting people to ask the question and he's gonna he's gonna reveal who Jesus is from people that you don't expect it until you get to Mark chapter eight, when Peter finally says, You are the Son of God, you're the Messiah. Yeah, and and Jesus is like, uh, that doesn't come from you, that comes from the Father, like you've been given revelation. And then the rest of the book is Jesus showing the mission of the Messiah, which is going to the cross. So I I set this up to go, everything that the disciples were afraid of is a is coming true. And and that's so important. But the thing that's interesting is in the language, in the Greek language, which you can you can literally hold your finger down and get to the Greek word studies in Lagos. So you can just hold quiet, be still. But you see this, what is a formula in the book of Mark. And when he says, quiet, be still, that is the same formula for casting out demons that he uses throughout the entire book of Mark. So the phrase in the way it's written is as if he exercises the storm.

SPEAKER_01

Wow.

SPEAKER_04

So, which there that's a whole other thing. It's it's him taking authority as the new Adam to kind of bring peace to the chaos that's in the world. All that is set up, okay? Because then you get to the other side, and then we get this epic story, which we're gonna dive into. Will you read the first seven verses?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, they came to the other side of the sea, to the region of the I never know how to say this. I just make it up in my head. Say it Garrasines. Great, we'll take it. Okay. Sure. As soon as he got out of the boat, a man with an unclean spirit came out of the tombs and met him. He lived in the tombs, and no one was able to restrain him anymore, not even with a chain, because he had he often had been bound with shackles and chains, but had torn the chains apart and smashed the shackles. No one was strong enough to subdue him. Night and day among the tombs and on the mountains, he was always crying out and cutting himself with stones. When he saw Jesus from a distance, he ran and knelt down before him, and he cried out with a loud voice, What do you have to do with me, Jesus, son of the most high God? I beg you before God, don't torment me. For he had told him, Do you want to keep going? Yeah, keep going. For he had told him, Come out of the man, you unclean spirit.

SPEAKER_04

So this um gosh, I get emotional thinking about this one. First of all, I just want to do this. Let's humanize this experience. So the disciples go, don't go to the other side, it's filled with Gentiles, demon-possessed, and they show up, and of course, there's there's literally a demon-possessed man meeting them as soon as they get there, running out to them. And I just think one of the things that's interesting is the humanity of this. Like, there's a man tormented by demons, and the community tries to restrain him. The community tries to like resist him, keep him isolated. So he lives in the tombs. Like, this is straight horror film. Like his his home is the tombs. He he howls at night and then he cuts himself. Like, I mean, why are people cutting themselves? Like torment, like wanting to feel like there's so many things here that we can just relate to, but also he's isolated, but he's held hostage by evil.

SPEAKER_00

Wow.

SPEAKER_04

Like that's the part where I'm like, he's longing for freedom. And if we want to build like a personality profile, like maybe he got into things, like went down the wrong trail, and he became held captive by his addiction. He be held captive by by some type of demonic force. And he's now cutting himself, longing for freedom. And we we can just imagine the city. Like I always say, like, you know, this is what happens with institutions. Like cities will try to say, like, stay away from so-and-so. Like, you tell the story about to your kids, like, if you don't obey me, parents will say this, don't obey me. You'll be like crazy Mike on the, you know, living in the tombs. And we create like kind of like this release valve for like society to go, like, there's some type of pain over here, avoid the pain. All we can do is try to restrain it, but our capacity to restrain it doesn't happen. And then Jesus shows up, and the person with what we'll see is like thousands of demons comes running down the hill to greet him. And this is a scene that I just want to like pull out to say, like, Jesus is confronted by what we see as a legion. It says in verse nine, it says, Then Jesus asked him, What is your name? And he says, My name is Legion, he replied, for we are many. And he begged Jesus again and again not to send them out of the area. So there's some regional territory. Do you know what the word legion means? Do you know what that's about? That'd be a military term going to a troop of a thousand soldiers. A thousand soldiers. So there's something about like this dominance in you know, this military term. But at some point, we could say to use terms that are more familiar with listeners, this man, however it happened, became possessed. He be he became occupied by demons, maybe lots of demons. And the truth is, I just want to make this clear, I'm gonna read this that people can open themselves up to evil through habitual unrepentant sin, drugs, alcohol abuse, which enable people or a person to lose self-control, to become less alert, as the Bible says. And you can open yourself up to evil through false religions, through spiritual practices, through cultic behaviors. Um, you can cut like a cultic behavior is cutting yourself. That comes from pagan practice back in the day through rituals of pagan worship. And people today open themselves up to all sorts of evil in those ways.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

So however this guy gets got there, he becomes possessed. I'm gonna say this right now. Can I see a question? Sorry. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Is any sort of addiction an open door like that?

SPEAKER_04

I would say all forms of addiction.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, like a nicotine addiction.

SPEAKER_04

Uh possibly.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I would say there's like people who smoke cigarettes.

SPEAKER_04

I don't want to put a moral statement on that, but I would say when you become addicted to anything, like we have an addiction to our phone. Is that is that demonically influencing us? Possibly. Yeah. Like think about all the narratives you're getting from your phone, right? Is alcohol addictive? Absolutely. Is working out? Can that become an addiction that radically transforms your mind and and hold takes you hostage to use that language? Yeah, I would say that that's all possible. We know that. So yeah, I would say addiction can open you up to the demonic. Not all, not all, not all of them will go that way, but that's absolutely one way. Drugs in particular is an easy way to give the demonic realm access.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

And this is a gray area. So there's lots of study, like some will say that, but you know, to your point, can I read this? This is from Rob Reimer's book, Spiritual Authority. Again, I actually think this might be in the bundle, by the way. Um, but he says, every time we pick up the tool of rebellion, we are picking up a tool of darkness. Wow. And it can only lead to bondage, never freedom. For example, if someone sins against us and hurts us, Jesus tells us to forgive them, to bless those who curse us. If we forgive, we pick up the tool of the kingdom of God, we give access to God. If we hold on to bitterness, we are picking up the tool of the kingdom of Satan, and we are giving access to Satan. Paul says that the devil gets a foothold in Ephesians 4 27, um, a ground, he gets access. Humanity is locked in Satan's dark kingdom and its effects because we have all sinned and given Satan access. So our lives are saturated with the fruits of darkness: pain, suffering, sorrow, injustice, sickness, demonization, bondage, addiction, poverty, and the like. These things were not a part of God's design in the beginning, and they will not be found in heaven. And I can't overemphasize this. The way the world is is not neutral. It's offering you the way of the darkness or the way of the kingdom. And every time, as Rob Reimer says, we pick up a tool of rebellion and we begin to participate in the way of the kingdom of darkness, it leads to bondage. It will never leave to lead to freedom. So, in many ways, we're always participating in an ecosystem, but we have to become aware of what that ecosystem is.

SPEAKER_00

Right.

SPEAKER_04

Makes sense, yeah. So I want to I want to do some nuanced things real quick because I want to help give a theology of demonization. So that's the word. In the Greek, there is no word for possession or ownership. The word that appears, and this is from Michael Heiser's book on demons. The word in Greek that appears is the word demonized.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

So a lot of people have heard the word possessed, but that's not actually in the Greek. Though the word is demonized. So the question I get all the time is can Christians come under a high degree of influence by a demonic spirit? Is it possible for Christians to yield control of their bodies to a demonic spirit in the same way that they yield control or power of sin? And the answer is yes. It's it's very possible. And I have a list of passages: 1 Timothy 4, 2 Timothy 2, Ephesians chapter 4, James chapter 1, 1 Thessalonians. All of there's all sorts of biblical evidence, meaning that you are giving yourself access to demons. You're you're influenced by demons. I'm gonna give you five categories in a second, but did you have a question?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I just I think it's helpful to make the clarification between like demonization and possession because of the way we see it, possession depicted and like the stuff that we watch. I'm gonna walk through it. Yeah, because possess possession kind of comes to mind like, oh, my psyche, my consciousness is like hidden away somewhere inside. Yeah, and everything I do, there is now another personality who's like in charge, and I'm gone. Like I'm like silently forced to just like watch.

SPEAKER_04

Let me I'm gonna walk through the the levels first before we get to possession. That way, because let me just start with what can what does demonic activity look like? If if demonization is the broad category, how do we get to this idea of possession, which is what you're at getting at, which is what everyone's asking, right? So, like, can I be possessed to use that language? And I want to I want to answer that. So, so first of all, the first way we can experience demonic activity is temptation. We've talked about this. All of us experience the enemy tempting us with sin, right? Hebrews 4 talks about this, so we all can experience a form of demonization, a form of demonic activity. We'll use that word uh through temptation. The second way we experience kind of the demonic activity in our life is harassment. So I think this is a common thing. You're repeatedly harassed in certain areas of your life, and you might have to fight well against demonic activity. They can be annoying, they can be distraction, it could be a form of persecution. So this is where categorically I think yes, all Christians experience temptation, we experience harassment. Like there are ways that the enemy will use people in your life to harass you. Would you agree? Yeah, yeah, yes. Like I know, like, and this may sound this may not, you might not say like everything's a demonic thing, but the enemy can use like broken people as a tool to bring harassment to you.

SPEAKER_02

Right.

SPEAKER_04

Right. And they unknowing, unknowingly, they become a tool of the enemy in your life.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. My the man who discipled me, Socrates, would always tell me, whenever somebody hurts you, don't be mad at them. Be mad at the spirit that's operating. Like don't, if someone is like really does something really wrong against you.

SPEAKER_04

So so we've seen temptation, harassment. The third is what we'll call oppression. Yeah. Right. So categorically, this is where like there's heavy attack, which is persistent and almost crushing. It could be to use physical language, it's it's like uh a metal band tightening around your head. It gets gradually worse. This is where we become enslaved to sin in possible ways. It like we participate in things that become more and more um oppressive, like to use that word. I would say we absolutely experience this at times. I know, I mean, this is in the early church, this is all over the place. I know people that come in and there's a level of demonization or demonic activity where it's absolute oppression in their life, and you see it in their habits of eating, their sleep patterns, like all sorts of things. Do you do you know what I'm talking about in this? Like the levels from temptation, harassment, oppression. And then there's habitation, right?

SPEAKER_00

Yes.

SPEAKER_04

Habitation is you're demonized. Okay. So it's in you, maybe due to something you inherited, maybe because of a behavior, and you have uh maybe because of something that's influenced in your life over a long period of time. Maybe you've inherited a kind of explosive anger because it goes from your dad to your grandparents. Like this is where I think all Christians, and this is what I mean when I quoted it in the last episode, where the early church saw everyone being having some type of demonic kind of spirit, being influenced by demons. This is that concept. There's like an habituation, like there's uh uh like they've been habituated, sorry, by by demons. Like there's something inside of them that is a spirit working against them. That's not possession. Okay. That's like there's there's levels of this. And when we get into how we set captives free, I just want to bring this into your your eye understanding that I think Christians can have these kind of habitations with them, right? That we've inherited, that we've participated in. And that part of deliverance ministry is setting those demons, being you being set free from those demons.

SPEAKER_02

Totally.

SPEAKER_04

The next category of demonization is this one possession. Uh, to use that language, it's where demons have dominated or control of your life. You've been given over to the darkness in a way that you are now held captive. You're a prisoner, you're will, you're you're in solitary confinement, you're shackled to a cold stuff a cold stone floor, and you are owned by the demonic. I don't think Christians can have that experience. I think you're inhabited by the spirit. You can have a level of demonization, but you cannot be owned. And so what Jesus is dealing with in Mark V is this type of ownership and possession. This he's been given over, he's cutting himself, he's being controlled by demons. This is where Hollywood comes in with all of the shows. And that's where the will is influenced. And I've seen this.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

I've seen this lots of times.

**Start Reel 4

SPEAKER_00

And and but non-believers can be possessed.

SPEAKER_04

Non-believers can be possessed. Yeah. Yes.

SPEAKER_00

And can you give an example of what that might look like?

SPEAKER_04

Um, well, our boy in Mark chapter five, isn't it? Yeah. Mark chapter five is a great example. I I've seen this. I used to do a lot of homeless ministry. And this is what's weird. Like in homeless ministry, we I I would come to downtown LA to Skid Row and for years when I was in college and MacArthur Park. And there's a mix of drug addiction, alcohol abuse. These are like what would be stereotypical chronic homelessness. Like the majority of homelessness is not what you see in the stereotypes. They're like usually families that are, you know, living paycheck to paycheck or in in in motels or hot cars, which so that's the majority of homelessness. This is like the stereotype. Yeah. And there's there's a way that it goes from uh uh where people are held captive. So I have dealt with like full-on demonic possession in those environments where what started as drug addiction would lead to some type of spiritual involvement where I would be confronted by demons. And that happened there when I was uh actually I was at a taco restaurant with my family after church when we were in downtown Long Beach, and there was a guy there who was homeless asking for money, and we we bought him some tacos and then we started talking to him. And as soon as I talked to him about Jesus, this personality came out of nowhere. And he starts saying his name's Beelzebub, and then he shows me a tattoo of Beelzebub and at the taco shop. At the taco shop. So I have my kids go somewhere else, and I start having a dramatic encounter. My my one of our elders was with me, and my his name is Zach, one of my best friends. And this guy was going from being like this this aggressive, demonized man who is hates Jesus. It's a demon talking.

SPEAKER_01

Wow.

SPEAKER_04

To what was, as we started praying, a boy who was abused. And it was this weird dynamic going off, like where he's he's telling his parents were part of a satanic cult. Like this is what he's telling me as we're having like this in power encounter. And I he couldn't, I couldn't set him free because this is not the place for that type of dramatic encounter. I I would have to lead him to Jesus, I would have to take him uh to a uh counseling, we'd have to do like a whole on assessment and then eventually do deliverance ministry, which is what the Catholics do, which is what many deliverance ministries do, is this is not like a moment, you know, on the street, we're gonna set this guy free. Sometimes that happens, and I don't want to just discredit those things, but the the level of demonization that was coming out, and when when I've had these encounters, I'll just say the demons know things about me they shouldn't know. I mean, I can't even tell you. I I was in um like I was in uh I was in the UK and I preached this at this massive conference called New Wine, and it was the first time I was there, it was an evening service, and this little like this you hear this screaming in the back, and there's this little girl, probably like 16, and she's throwing people off of her. And I walked to see what's going on. The leaders were there, and they're like holding her down, trying to pray. And she sees me, sees me, and she starts cussing at me, calling me by my full name, calling me these horrible things, and then she starts calling out my my past, things that I've done, things that happened to me. And it was so dramatic. And I was like, This is like one of the most dramatic things I've seen. And I was like, Okay, in the name of Jesus, be still. And like she went still, and we we took her outside and she was set free. But I've seen all of those things, like and there's layers to this.

End Reel 4

SPEAKER_00

That is I can tell you dozens of stories.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, it's just so crazy. Like when you grow up in a world where none of this is happening. Yeah. Like, and then you're thrown into it. Yeah. And it becomes for me, like it becomes in the way that I grew up, it becomes so hard when I heard stories like this to accept them because I'm always going, like, well, you know, you're giving these six levels of demonization. Show me where that is in the Bible. Yeah. And I think one of the the facts of the matter is the Bible never takes the time to give us an exact description of what demons are, where they come from, if there's only one kind, what they can and what they cannot do. I mean, we we don't know. Like we're feeling we're filling in the blanks as we go to war.

SPEAKER_04

And what we can infer from scripture is if you look at all the references, which I've done deep dive. Dr. Gary Bashir's has free resources on this. There's a lot of books out there that I recommend books, which are actually recommended in some of the stuff that we have from Lagos. But what you see in scripture is a level of these things. We see you know, temptation in Hebrews chapter four. We see harassment like Beelzeba means like flies, right? Like it's a harassment thing. Uh, the oppression, we see a level of oppression where some people have a sickness in the Gospels and they're oppressed with sickness, and Jesus sets them free. They're not Mark V, demonized and possessed, living amongst the tombs, cutting themselves, but they have a fever and they're related to Peter through marriage, you know, through uh, you know, he his mother-in-law gets free. So we see a level of these things. And the question is always like, can a Christian be possessed? And I wouldn't say, like, in Christ, no, you're a prisoner of the Lord. You can't become a prisoner of Satan if you're a prisoner of the Lord. Yeah. But you can have levels of attack, absolutely. I've seen it. I think there's been sickness in my life, in my wife's life that's absolutely come from uh from demonic activity. There's been in my life, I'll tell you this story. In 2019, I started dealing with depression and like anxiety again. I'm leading the church. I started getting suicidal ideation again, right? And and this is like stuff from when I was in high school. And it was the weirdest thing. And I knew it was something was going on. Where I go to a therapist, I'm dealing with this stuff. My wife and I are having conflict. We're seeing the therapist, and then I'm dealing with like a heavy dark season. And then in January, I go to this leadership gathering at a friend's house with 150 business leaders. I'm the only other pastor there, other than the person who's preaching. And I don't know the person who's preaching. He doesn't know I'm in the room. And he starts to preach to these business leaders, and they're like very successful business leaders. And he goes, Hold on. He's like, There's somebody in this room. And he has a word of knowledge about what I was going through. He's like, You're a pastor, and he's like, You've been dealing with this, this, this, this, and this. And I can't go on until you stand up because what you're dealing with is not a therapy issue, it's a demonic issue, and you're going to be set free. And I'm like, the last thing I want to do is be exposed right now with those specific issues which I'm dealing with. That's the last thing I want to experience. But I Alex looks at me and she's like, just what what do you have to lose other than your reputation? So I stood up and he starts crying and he he prays for me. And next thing I know, I'm on the ground and I'm getting prayer, and I haven't had it since.

SPEAKER_00

Let's go. Did you experience anything in that moment, like physiologically, mentally, emotionally?

SPEAKER_04

A dramatic piece from the Lord. And I would say there was something on me that was lifted. Meanwhile, that whole season, I'm praying, I'm preaching, I'm leading an elder team, I'm doing all the things. I'm reading the scriptures every day. I'm I'm doing all the things. But I needed a form of deliverance. That's what that was.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Right. And that's not this crazy mystical thing. It's the ministry of Jesus.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

**Start Reel 5

SPEAKER_04

And this is where I want people to be educated and grow. And I've seen throughout my life in ministry, different personalities come because people are possessed, different interests because people are possessed. I've seen people yield, give more and more of themselves away to the kingdom of darkness. And it doesn't start with like randomly walking into a place or grabbing a book and now you're demon possessed. That was really loud. It starts with slowly walking down the road that leads to your bondage. Wow. Disobedience, like God says, don't do this and you do it. Don't keep doing that, and you keep on doing that. And then you start dabbling in things that lead you away from the community of faith, lead you away to the things that you need. And I think this is where I want the church to recognize the church is empowered by the Holy Spirit to continue the ministry of Jesus, which is designed to set captives free.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

End Reel 5

Scripture Start

SPEAKER_04

So that's my hope in this series. So special is to get to the next couple weeks. Can we keep going? Okay, we I I pulled you on that. Now let's keep going. Mark chapter 5, verse 8 through 13. Will you read 8 through 13?

SPEAKER_00

For Jesus had said to him, Come out of this man, you impure spirit. Then Jesus asked him, What is your name? My name is Legion, he replied, for we are many. And he begged Jesus again and again not to send them out of the area. A large herd of pigs was feeding on the nearby hillside. The demons begged Jesus, send us among the pigs, allow us to go into them. He gave them permission, and the impure spirits came out and went into the pigs. The herd, about 2,000 in number, rushed down the steep bank into the lake and were drowned.

Scriture End

SPEAKER_04

This is a crazy story.

SPEAKER_00

It's the best story.

SPEAKER_04

Okay, also pigs are unclean animals. So the Jewish question.

SPEAKER_00

Did you eat bacon?

SPEAKER_04

Like, no, not that. That's an old Old Testament. No, we're chilling. We're good with bacon. Okay, chill. All right. Don't talk about that. Eat it all day long. Um although it's like a class one carcinogen, so it's healthy. But, anyways, it's still it gives you cancer. Yeah, so basically kills you. Okay, then let's so there's some truth to the old testament. Just gonna name that one. But the the again, this is getting back to like the the Jewish consciousness. Like the disciples would be like, okay, what's on the other side? Well, on the other side, apparently there's a bunch of pig herd herdsmen, like you know, they're they're they're shepherding pigs, and there's 2,000. So like you're like talking, like in the realm of what is unclean, they are in the epicenter of what's unclean. Evil spirits are talking to them. There's like 2,000 pigs, like they're worshiping other gods. All this stuff's going on. They're they're in a tomb, like they're near like a tomb. All this stuff's going on.

SPEAKER_03

For them, they're like in the upside down.

Start Reel 6

SPEAKER_04

They're exactly perfect. Yes, thank you for connecting it to our audience. They're in the upside down. This doesn't make sense. But what I want to talk about as we talk about like dealing with demonic activity is there is a mysterious power in naming the pain or opposition, opposition that you're experiencing. Like there's a there's a power in naming things. Like, so for example, if you've ever gone through AA and or dealt with like I've gone to lots of AA meetings. I've been sober for almost 10 years. And not that I was addicted to alcohol, but it was a journey that God invited me into. But I studied AA because it's one of the most transformational um communities that you can be a part of. It's it's it's an incredible tool for people that are dealing with addiction. But the first thing they have to do is name that they're powerless over their addiction. They have to say it, they have to name it.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Right. And um, and what is that? That's getting back to like agreements that we all have in many ways false belief systems, narratives, false identities that become strongholds in our lives. So it might not be a demon that's inhabited us, but we definitely get exploited by the enemy when we agree to things that are lies and false in agreements. So you might have, might be living right now with a false identity that the enemy's exploiting. Like for me, it was like I will always struggle with insecurity, believing that I wasn't enough. That was a stronghold in my life. We keep getting back to this, but there's a power in saying that I struggle with sexual addiction. I struggle with alcohol, I struggle with insecurity, I struggle. We're naming the thing because agreements with the enemy are binding contracts that need to be broken.

SPEAKER_00

Wow.

SPEAKER_04

And I think this is part of the Legion thing that they need to be legally broken in the kingdom of God. When we talk about the, there's like lots of different deliverance ministries out there. I'm kind of giving an overview of maybe three of them. One of the things that that you'll see in all of them is to actually name the agreements and that that way you can break them because you will make contracts with demonic act demons, and that's a real thing. And you do that in ways that are so natural for us. And we have to learn that Jesus wants to give us power to break those agreements. And we give power over to the demonic uh and demons when we disagree with what Jesus says about us. So, like oftentimes I'll tell people, like, what has power over you right now? And the better question is like, what in your life do you need freedom in? And if you go to that John passage, it's Jesus says, if you hold to my teaching, which by the way, that Greek word for teaching is logos, if you hold to my word, um, you really are my disciples. Nice. Then you will know the truth and the truth will set you free. Like, if you hold to my teaching, if you hold to my word and and you and you are really my disciples, then you will know the truth and the truth will set you free. So when you name it, when you surrender it and you invite Jesus into it, and you begin to respond with the opposite of what the agreement is. I like to say you begin to operate in the opposite spirit. You begin to see breakthrough in your life. Like, so for me, it's like when I was dealing with that insecurity that I'm not enough, I'm not good enough. So everything was about performance and being uh someone that had to prove their worth and value. I had to say, that's not true. I'm a child of God, I'm his beloved, I'm worthy of his love, and I don't have to prove his love anymore. And that was something I had to do regularly over and over again. Wow. Your thoughts on this?

**Start Reel 7

SPEAKER_00

I love, I love coming into agreement with Jesus and coming out of agreement with anything that's not him. I think I, yeah, I've had to overcome so much in my life, much like so many different addictions and thought patterns and traumas that cause me to feel a certain way about God and about myself. And so for me, like using my voice to come into agreement with God is everything. Like every single day coming out of agreement with the lie that X, Y, Z, like that's a daily practice that I have. Like when I notice something is off, I'm like, I come out of agreement with the lie that I am not enough in Jesus' name. Every single day I do that.

SPEAKER_04

So good.

SPEAKER_00

What, Elijah? Why are you smiling?

End Reel 8

SPEAKER_03

That's just great. He's caught up. I like living on the same page as God. Yes. That's basically the goal, right? To be thinking and feeling the same things as him, to be on the same page as him. That's I want to be really alive, right? Like I want I want John chapter 10, verse 10. Yeah. So whatever, and I think we've kind of hit on it already, but the whatever things in my life are points of vulnerability that the enemy might take advantage of, like, man, I want to do whatever it takes for my sake, for the sake of my family, for my wife and my children, to be the kind of person who has worked to get on the same page as God on every single one of those issues, so that those points of weakness and vulnerability aren't things that can be inflamed or taken advantage of by some spiritual being. Yes. Yeah. So good.

**Start Reel 9

End Reel 9

SPEAKER_04

And as we're diving into this con this kind of idea, I want to just say right now that if you study like this story and notice all the stories of Jesus setting captives free and delivering people of demons, there is no battle. Like there's not really a battle with Jesus, right? Like it's so clear. Like here, you got thousands of demons, like the the legions coming at them, and they're already submissive. They're already submissive to Jesus. And that's so true because Jesus has ultimate authority. Like we need to know that. And in fact, like I've told stories of like the crazy demonic encounters, but in the church context, I've seen demons manifest. And I've seen people begin to do things, and this is what I'll just say this. If you're a pastor listening, the thing that happens in churches is demons will try to draw attention to themselves away from Jesus. So I'll, you know, sometimes people might become hysterical in a worship gathering, especially if the spirit's moving. The first thing is like, me. There might be, there might be, but there might be demonic demons in the room. Oh, that's not what it meant for me. I just love Jesus. But like they might be drawing attention to themselves. Oh, yes. And so every time that happens, I'll like draw the church to begin to focus and worship Jesus, like call out his name, right? And then if the person is really demonized, this has happened in church. Our team is trained like to have authority, to take authority over the situation, because in Jesus we have authority over these over demons. Absolutely. So how do you have authority over them? Well, I want to give some tools. This is where we're getting real practical based on this. But we have authority in Christ to take a take authority over the demonic realm and demonic spirits, especially when we're living in relationship to a local church and we're submitting to pastors and elders, like this happens all the time. So when I've seen people begin to manifest in a gathering, I'll walk over and quietly and gently take authority and command the demons to stop. And every single time in the last 10 years, they quiet. Because my line normally is this is a daughter of the king or a son of the king, and you will not embarrass them here. And in Jesus' name, be silent. And I'll quiet the demon, and then we will deal with, we will bring them off to the side and then deal deal with deliverance. Because we've learned through practice and failure and like learning how to navigate in the supernatural or the unseen realm in the authority of Jesus, that we have so much power and authority. I feel like I'm going into territory that's new, yeah? It's so good. I'm seeing your face. You're like, oh my gosh. Like it's not just, yeah, go ahead.

SPEAKER_00

I've been in church before, not your a different church. And I remember Pastor Stephanie Ike was speaking on stage, and there was a woman in the crowd who just started like screaming in tongues, like screaming in tongues. And she literally goes, be silent in the name of Jesus, like while she was on stage. She was like, I'm not dealing with, or she's had people, and I've seen multiple pastors who have people like run up to the stage. And you'd think that, like, like, oh, like you need to help them. But a lot of the times they're like, you're a distraction. I see exactly what's going on here. Go back to your seat and do not disrupt the service.

SPEAKER_04

So in in the worship context, what I see is the demonic kind of influence because people come in, there's all sorts of demonization. We are dealing with a season of witchcraft in our church where I think there were a lot of witches in the church. And the Lord was showing me and our elders like it's not just like the services are off. There are literally witches in the church that are coming to these services trying to disrupt. And that's that's another conversation. But we've learned to take authority. So here's here's a prayer I want, we'll have this as a resource for you guys. And it's borrowed from uh John Wimber's power evangelism, power healing, uh Francis McNutt. It's borrowed from some like very practical, like Catholics and all sorts of those, those people in church uh kind of environments that do deliverance. This is a prayer that everyone can pray. And I want it's a it's a formula, and I think it's important.

SPEAKER_01

I love it.

SPEAKER_04

I'm gonna pray it. I'm gonna pray it right now. I'll give it to you, and then I'll break it down. It says, so you say, in the authority and power and in the name of Jesus, I command you, evil spirit, to depart from the person's name without harming them, leaving them quietly with this without disturbing, and go straight to Jesus, never to return again. I pray now, Lord Jesus Christ, that you'll fill my brother or sister with your love and your Holy Spirit. Amen. So this is a specific way to pray against evil spirits and pray for deliverance. Like my kids know how to do this. We've trained them because um when my my kids started experiencing warfare when they were three and I think six and a half during COVID, it was a very crazy time. Yeah. Um, and we a prophetic friend called me out of the blue and had like very specific words. But he said, Darren, you gotta bring your kids into the spiritual battle that they're fighting. So train them on how to do this. But this specific prayer for deliverance comes from lots of resources. It's consolidated. But the main thing is number one, is you pray with authority. We pray in the name of Jesus. We pray in his authority, by his power, by the authority of Jesus Christ. This is not your authority that you've gained access because you've done spiritual disciplines and practices. That's helpful. This is from Jesus' authority, and you got to learn to submit. Well, I'll talk about this in the next episode, but how to grow in authority. Like you grow in authority through obedience, through intimacy with Christ, through consecration and holiness, by spending time with God. But you can grow in the authority of Jesus, but you pray with his authority, not yours. Second, you command demons, you don't ask demons what to do.

SPEAKER_00

Love that.

SPEAKER_04

This is so important. So, you this is from here. We'll see, we'll read this in other places. Jesus will command and tell the demons what to do. We don't ask them what to do. In fact, I've been in encounters where I was with people learning how to do deliverance, and this was at new wine, and the demon-possessed person was telling the people praying for them how to pray. And if if I could say anything, it was they were like, anoint my mouth, anoint my hands. And the demon was telling them to make, they were making fun of the people praying. And I walked up, I'm like, you don't listen to them. Wow, you tell them, and then that's when the person went quiet and still, and then we were able to uh deal with what was going on.

SPEAKER_00

But they're so like mocky, they're so like meaning absolutely. Oh, I hate it.

SPEAKER_04

Is this interesting? I feel like I'm talking a lot.

SPEAKER_00

No, this is beyond interesting.

SPEAKER_04

Okay, hopefully that's really good.

SPEAKER_00

Like this is what everybody wants to hear about. Like, this is what people want to hear about.

SPEAKER_04

Great. Okay, so you you you do you number one, you pray with authority, you command them what to do, you don't ask them, you speak to whom? This the third part is to whom you you you command the evil spirit.

SPEAKER_00

Do you have to name the spirit?

SPEAKER_04

I don't think so. And there's there's actually lots of debate on that.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

I like the idea of not having to go down the rabbit. Trail of finding out what all the spirits is are. Um, but some need that investigative work, and there's there's different perspectives on that. I some scholars would say you're giving the demons too much power, others would say you're learning how to effectively deliver people. Yeah. So there's debates on that. Either way, you speak to the evil spirit and you command them what to do. But then number four is, and this is with authority, command to whom you tell them what to do. So you tell them to depart from this person and you tell them how. Depart from this person without harming them, and you do it quietly. Because remember when I shared that story of I was I was casting out this demon in India, and I said, leave this person. And the girl goes still, but then the sister is now attacked by this demon. That seems that's like straight up dramatic, and it was very dramatic. But I didn't tell the demon to go to Jesus. So we will tell them what to do, how to do it, and where to go. And I always train people, tell the demons to go straight to Jesus Christ to never return.

SPEAKER_00

Love that.

SPEAKER_04

And there's so much theology behind this.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

And lastly, when you're done doing that, you fill the space that's empty. Right. You invite the Holy Spirit to fill the person. You ask Jesus to bring this person to a place of peace and fill them with the Holy Spirit. So you say, in the name, in the authority and power in the name of Jesus, I command you, evil spirit, to depart from this person without harming them, leave them quietly, without disturbing them, and go straight to Jesus Christ to never return. I pray now, Lord Jesus Christ, that you'd fill my brother with peace, with your love and the and the power of the Holy Spirit in their life.

SPEAKER_00

I love that. That's good. Can I ask what's can you talk about the scripture that says that if you don't fill up that space, they come back with vengeance?

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. Well, there's this story about Jesus saying, like you cast out a demon, but they go and they wander for another place, and they gather seven other demons and come back to inhabit that place and making it work worse. And the idea around that is that you become a vessel that's cleansed, that that's holy and sacred, and you you you uh patch up the holes and you close the windows and the doors that had got them access to the house in the first place.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and and you ask to be filled with the Holy Spirit's face.

SPEAKER_04

Yes, yes, 100%. You ask to be filled with the Holy Spirit, but then you also live in obedience to Jesus. So it's not because it's not like a one-time thing, like, oh cool, now I'm filled. It's now I'm going to ongoingly live in the way of Jesus. Yeah. The the doors that have been opened, the unforgiveness in my heart that's held me captive, the the acts of rebellion and disobedience. I'm no longer participating in those things. I'm now aligning myself with Jesus. Now that I've been freed by Jesus, I want to walk in his ways. And that's what everyone needs to do.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Um that's that's it.

SPEAKER_00

Um, what was I gonna ask? You need permission, right? To cast out a demon. What happens if what happens if you cast out a demon that you didn't get permission?

SPEAKER_03

I don't know if I've ever done that.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

I've never been.

SPEAKER_03

Walk up to somebody and just start casting out? Is that what you mean?

SPEAKER_00

Like if you're praying for somebody and you had an ask. I don't know. What if you're like, you know how there are like street evangelists and they go up to someone pray for them and they just start rebuking a demon without the person's permission?

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, I don't I don't know what to say about that. Because in my experience, I would say some things can be set free when it's not like an inhabited person, like possessed person. But I think most of the work is actually the agreements, the legal access that the people have done given them to.

SPEAKER_03

Well, I mean, I always go to like the the whole process of being the kinds of people who do these kinds of things. Who like I like the language of John Wimber, who's like, let's do the stuff. Let's go do the stuff that Jesus did. You know, it's super daunting and intimidating. And I think that's the importance of what we're talking about, is so that it doesn't become like there's these spooky, scary bad guys. Yeah. What are you gonna do about that? But actually, like, no, I've been equipped, filled with the Holy Spirit. I know what's going down, I have the practical guidance, I know what's going on. But even still, we look at the disciples who, when Jesus is up on the transfigural mount, you know, showing, which is like a great literary moment where Jesus is like showing his real identity, standing with Moses and Elijah before Peter, James, and John. And then they come down the mountain and the other nine guys like are struggling to cast this demon out. And Jesus is like, ugh, you know, he's like, How long, you faithless generation? Yeah. And I always read that and I'm like, man, I wish we got some more there. Because they're like, they come to Jesus and they're like, Well, why couldn't we cast him out? Like, we've cast out we've cast so many demons out. What was what went wrong here? This little kid demon we couldn't get out of like what's going on. And Jesus just goes, like, oh yeah, this one can only come out with with prayer, yeah, and fasting. Yeah, not fasting, not fasting, because that's later manuscripts. Not in the manuscript. That's what they say.

SPEAKER_00

But the original is just yeah, when you said that, yeah, it only comes out with prayers. But this is why they add that. What do you mean by that?

SPEAKER_04

Like, tell me more. I mean, why would you add it? You you add a practice that you can maybe will God at like a force, you know, to do what you want. When the original I think prayer is about your the power, and this is where you grow in spiritual authority. You can grow in power, but you can only grow in power through continual access and intimate relationship with Jesus. So the the power that they were exercising demons was given to them by Jesus in Mark's gospel, and that was in chapter three, I think, and then chapter six. This happens in chapter nine of Mark's gospel. And my the emphasis, I think, is is about you have to have this ongoing loving relationship to use the power and authority that's necessary for the ministry of Jesus. I would also argue there's something dynamic that's happening in that particular passage. But I actually think if you were to exegete it, there's something significant where he goes when the father's desperation goes, uh your disciples can't couldn't do it. Jesus sees that his disciples aren't able to cast it out. But what he says, he doesn't speak to the disciples, he doesn't speak to the demon, he doesn't speak to the dad. I think he diagnoses something. He says, You unbelieving generation.

SPEAKER_02

Wow.

SPEAKER_04

I think he's diagnosing like this dynamic spirit in particular, where there's a there's something bigger going on than just a child being demonized. And I would actually argue, I think this is a great illustration for what's currently going on. Like where there's like there's this, there's something else happening that's oppressing the most innocent.

SPEAKER_00

Wow.

SPEAKER_04

That's making them mute and deaf.

SPEAKER_00

Darren.

SPEAKER_04

Right? Like, and so like I think there's something there. And then and then clearly he he teach him creates a teaching moment where like your power and authority is based on your submission and ongoing relationship to me. That's what it is. Wow. So I I do think it's prayer. I think that the I will always go to the ancient manuscript in the same way like John 8 doesn't have that section. Yeah, yeah. I I won't preach that because I I really want to be to you know as as biblical as possible in that way.

SPEAKER_03

It's just moments like this where I wish we had like the handbook. I it's like Jesus and the apostles who watched the way that Jesus did exorcisms and then did pass on like, hey guys, here's the model, here's what you do. Because when we we see, yeah, I don't know. I just find like I was thinking when you were talking earlier about like how funny the moment would be. And you know, maybe this never happened, but I think about like the moment Peter finishes his first sermon, he goes and looks at the lame man and says, you know, take up your mat and walk. Yes. He's just riffing on Jesus. Yes. He's just like quoting Jesus and it works. Yes, you know what I mean? Yeah, uh, but then I imagine like the moment where like when does it eventually happen where one of the apostles wants someone to be healed and it doesn't and they pray for them to be healed? Yeah. The way that you and I have often experienced prayer for someone to be healed and nothing happens. Yeah. Like then what? Do they start to pray differently? Do they not pray get up and walk prayers anymore? Is that like only when there's faith for it, or like when they're just so dialed into what the Holy Spirit is saying that they're like, they know, you know what I mean? They they just perfectly discern these things. It's like what does someone do if they have all these practical tips and they believe that someone's demonized and they do it all, but then here's the thing that happens.

SPEAKER_04

That world that you're describing right now, I think most people don't live in that world. Like they live in the world where their prayers aren't answered, right? That's the world they live in. I don't think many people have been discipled into the expectation of healing and deliverance. That's my experience. It's not that they don't believe God heals, it's that they haven't been trained, they haven't anticipated, they haven't prayed enough. Like John Wimber would say to pastors, can you come and teach us how to do prayer healing ministry? And he would say, Pray for a hundred people, and then I might. What's the point? You have to learn how to pray for the sick. Wow. And this is true of my life. When I start when I started to believe in the ministry of the Holy Spirit that God wanted to heal the sick, my friends and I create an accountability group where we prayed for people on the street that had signs that they were sick, neck braces, they were in wheelchairs, crutches. Like so every time we saw that, we would pray. I've prayed for thousands and thousands and thousands of people. I've seen hundreds of people healed.

SPEAKER_00

Wow.

SPEAKER_04

And we're seeing lots of now. I would say if you want to see healing ministry, go to a church that prays for healing.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

If you want to be set free of demonic spirits, be trained and be a part of a community that actually prays for deliverance. That's the key. Yeah. It's not that it's not going to happen because you know, even if like that's that's where it's like where the information isn't helpful, but the practical tools are helpful. So the thing that I just read to you, what's powerful about it is you now have a tool. You might not know the authority that you have. You might not know how to grow in this, but you can start with, hey, I don't know if I'm I'm dealing with demons. Here's a liturgy I can pray that will eventually form my prayer life in a way that helps me understand how to how to discern what is of evil or what is just circumstance. And that's what I really want people to understand. That's great. I just want to say the story ends with the man sitting like next to Jesus in his right mind, like enclosed, like completely at peace. And and what's fascinating is you'd think, and this is what's interesting. You would think that the town would be like, come hang out with us. But instead, they're like, please leave. Like they're like, get out of here. Like this, the scariest man that's literally traumatized our our our town is now in his right mind and at peace. And then, you know, 2,000 pigs drowned. So like a Zeno snap. Yeah, you know what I mean? It's just like crazy. It's daunting power. But notice this is so fascinating. The man is a Gentile because he's living in that territory. That's what we can assume. And he says, I want to go with you. And Jesus says, No. He tells him not to come. Instead, he says, Go and tell the world what's been given to you. And if you follow the story, the next time Jesus shows up to that region, everybody and their mother shows up.

SPEAKER_01

Wow.

SPEAKER_04

And Jesus sets captives free and heals the sick and proclaims the gospel. It was one person who is delivered that becomes a herald for Jesus Christ. Wow. And there's revival in that region because of that one story. And that's where for me it's like oftentimes, I just want to end with hope, your greatest pain can become the platform for Jesus to kind of use to minister to people. Or you could say there are lots of wounds that we have. Some wounds heal, some wounds leave scars, and some wounds remain open. Like think of Jesus' crucifixion wounds. They're still there. And I would say it's because of those wounds that we have salvation. And I would say for a lot of us, the things that are the greatest obstacle in our life right now, the greatest pain point, will often become the very thing Jesus wants to redeem and heal, to let people get healed and ministered to by or ministered by through. He will use those wounds to heal others. And I think that's the hope of this story. That, you know, for some of us, maybe we're like the disciples who are like, we should, we don't belong here. I don't know if we should do this. We don't know what's going on. Maybe some of us are like the man who's been tormented for so many years and we need Jesus to set us free. I want to say Jesus still sets these people free. He still does this today. I'm seeing it every week. I see it, testimonies every week of people who have been held captive by addiction, held captive by demonic spirits, held captive by trauma from their past. And Jesus wants to heal you today. I believe that now.

SPEAKER_00

Yes.

SPEAKER_04

And I believe that that freedom is available to you in relationship to Jesus by being a part of a local church that practices these things. But I want people to be liberated. That's my hope. That's what I've seen. I'm tired of powerless churches.

SPEAKER_00

Wow.

SPEAKER_04

I'm tired of Christians who live powerless lives, who pray anemic prayers. We have to do better. The church has to do better. And we have now I'm preaching.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, we go, go, go.

SPEAKER_04

We have to do better and we have to be raised as disciples to continue the ministry of Jesus, which is to proclaim the gospel, to heal the sick, and to cast out demons wherever we go. Let's go. Amen. There it is.

SPEAKER_00

Unbelievable. There it is. Praise God. Thank you so much, Darren. Join us next week. We love you guys. More demon talk next week. Just kidding. More Jesus talk. More Jesus next week. We love you guys so, so much. Thank you, Elijah, for being with us. Love you guys.