Lust, Pride, Generational Curses, and How to Actually Get Free

Ten years of bulimia. One day it was just gone — and the temptation never came back. This episode opens with one of the most vulnerable conversations of the series before diving into a full spiritual warfare Q&A, answering the questions the audience sent in about lust, pride, generational curses, anxiety, possession, and how to actually walk someone through deliverance.

In this episode:
• Angela's decade-long battle with bulimia and the day the Holy Spirit set her free
• Dallas Willard on transformation: how thoughts, community, and habits work together
• How to beat the enemy when you are under attack — shut the door of compromise first
• Behind every sin is a God-given desire going to the wrong source — what that means for lust and pride
• Generational curses: what they are, how to break them, and what you can and cannot do for your family
• Is it spiritual warfare or is God closing a door? How to discern the difference
• Why you should not perform deliverance on someone if you have not been trained

SPONSOR
This series is sponsored by Logos Bible Software — and all three of us genuinely use it. Whether you're trying to go deeper in Scripture, prep for teaching, or just slow down and actually understand what you're reading, Logos is the tool. It gives you context, original language insights, commentaries, and more, all in one place. It's not a shortcut — it's a companion. You can try it free for 60 days through our partner link below.

📖 Try Logos free for 60 days: https://logos.com/biblestudypdcst

Hosted by:
Pastor Darren Rouanzoin — https://www.instagram.com/darrenr
Angela Halili — https://www.instagram.com/angelahalili
Elijah Lamb — https://www.instagram.com/elijah.lamb

#BibleStudy #SpiritualWarfare #ChristianPodcast #Faith #Deliverance #Jesus #BibleStudyPodcast

Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:00

I just got delivered from a little bit of sadness.

SPEAKER_02 0:05

You can't get delivered in the sickness. Should I just go? You make it so real. Maybe you can. Maybe you can. Maybe it is. Maybe there's a spirit set.

SPEAKER_04 0:18

Right? I mean, no. I've been covered. Anyways, hi guys, what's up? I'm Angela.

SPEAKER_02 0:23

Hi, I'm Darren. I'm Elijah.

SPEAKER_04 0:25

And welcome to the Bible study podcast where we're bringing you the word. We have had the most amazing series. I hope you guys have enjoyed it. We have our good friend Elijah, who's been such an amazing guest.

SPEAKER_01 0:37

I need to get delivered of sadness.

SPEAKER_04 0:38

I know that you're leaving this as the last one.

SPEAKER_02 0:41

Bro, we'll have you back.

SPEAKER_01 0:42

Yeah, you guys are driving me out. Yeah, we are. We're casting you out. You are being delivered, yes. You're being delivered. We're being delivered. Yes. We have to replace me with a bit with a with the holy sp with the holier spirit. Yeah, let's have to jump there. We'll leave that there. We'll leave that there. I don't know if we can beat the name. Or I'll come back with seven more. Yeah. We'll be huddled over here in this corner. Yes. Let's do it.

SPEAKER_02 1:06

No, seven more evil than me. Yeah, no, that's the text. You're totally ruining it all. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:11

You guys are truly some of the like the nerding out on scripture is like the fact that yeah, the puns, the scripture puns is you got married at 22.

SPEAKER_02 1:22

Yeah. That's I got married at 22. Almost a year now. Like I'm looking at you, I'm seeing a younger version of how I used to be way smarter than I was at your age. So you're doing a great job.

SPEAKER_03 1:32

Please.

SPEAKER_02 1:32

No, for sure. You've read ever your thesaurus. Liz is the real deal. And uh, anyways, we're talking about spiritual warfare.

SPEAKER_03 1:41

A walking choice.

SPEAKER_01 1:43

Of the books is the weirdest choice. Like a walking encyclopedia.

SPEAKER_04 1:47

Honestly, what's a thesaurus? You're a kiddoscope. Oh, that's not what I meant. I didn't know what a thesaurus is. You're a walking kiddos.

SPEAKER_01 1:56

Thank you. You're a walking acres encyclopedia of the Bible.

SPEAKER_04 2:00

What am I?

SPEAKER_02 2:01

Do you you are the cultural context queen? All right. So am I right? There we go. Yeah, no, I like that. You bridge it all. You're the process of homiletics. Like you bring it back to the people. Because otherwise, it's just Bible nerd knowledge. Now you bring it back and you're and you're authentic and you're awesome. Great job.

SPEAKER_04 2:18

It's been the best thing though, going from like, I get to do GGB one day a week, I get to do this one day a week, and I just take on such a different role.

SPEAKER_03 2:26

Really?

SPEAKER_04 2:26

Yeah. It's just like here I get, I just feel like on GGB, it's very much obviously like teaching and leading. And then I come here and it just feels so good to be a student. It feels so good to just join in and like and learn.

SPEAKER_02 2:38

Well, I'm learning a lot too. I will say, you do have people that are like challenging. I saw the post where people are like, Fridays are the best, not Wednesdays. I know.

SPEAKER_04 2:48

Listen, they're just so loyal to GGB. Yeah. And there's no No challenge.

SPEAKER_02 2:52

There's no competition here. We love Girls Gone Bible. So that's great. We do. Yeah, we do. We're so grateful for this opportunity. Hey, so we're in spiritual warfare. Yeah. This is the last of that series right now. Maybe we'll do a part two. There's so many other things we could talk about. There's so many ways we can go because there are lots of resources. But I do want to remind you, this one is sponsored in partnership by Lagos Bible app. So we love that app. It's the resource we keep talking about. If you want to dive in deep on learning the scriptures, uh, going into commentaries, word studies, theology. I use it. I'm I kid you not, I use it every single day as I prepare sermons, as I study theology for this thing. I'm I'm bringing all of my thoughts and notes into one central place because I have a massive library that I've built over the last like 18 years. But they have libraries available. We have a free trial, 60-day free trial.

SPEAKER_04 3:42

You can go to logos.com slash Bible study podcasts. That's l o G-O-S dot com slash Bible study P D C S T.

SPEAKER_02 3:51

And if you go there, I will say this there's there's also a bundle you can get, uh uh$700 worth of resources for like it's like$80, it's like$79, which is amazing. A lot of great commentaries. We were talking about this.

SPEAKER_00 4:05

Some of my favorites.

SPEAKER_02 4:06

Yeah, like if you're starting out and you're like, where do I start? Like this bundle is for you because it's gonna give you lots of resources that are so good. Like NT Wright for Everyone series is like if you're like, what commentary? Start there, it's amazing. And then and then you can build as as you go. We'll have resources for you. But hopefully, you've had fun in this series.

SPEAKER_04 4:25

I've had fun, I've been rebuked, made fun of.

SPEAKER_02 4:30

No, this has been great. I I've loved all of the insight you bring.

SPEAKER_04 4:33

Thanks.

SPEAKER_02 4:34

You're incredible. You you have been a gift. Thanks for being here.

SPEAKER_04 4:36

You are such a gift, Elijah.

SPEAKER_02 4:37

Thanks for having me guys.

SPEAKER_04 4:38

Okay, can I ask you a question?

SPEAKER_02 4:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 4:40

So so much of my faith journey has been me like legitimately stumbling through it alone with Jesus. And I am so blessed now to have you in my life and other leaders in my life. But there's so much in my faith that I've walked out by myself, um, with taking what I've learned through scripture, through sermons and podcasts. And something that I experienced, and I want to get your take on it because I don't fully have the language around it. I developed, so growing up, I always had disordered eating. Like I struggled. I remember being eight years old at the pool, being like, I want to be thin, like I want to look thin as like as a child. And growing up throughout high school, then I would like try to, I was like anorexic, I would try to suppress my appetite with different medications. Like it was just like such a stronghold on my life. And I obviously was not a believer or following Jesus in any way. And then when I was 19, I was at a restaurant one time and I was with one of my friends from college and we were eating a meal. And she was like, Do you want to know the like, do you want to know the best way how to stay thin? And I was like, What? She was like, You throw up after you eat. And like with all like the trauma and like the generations of issues and disordered eating, it like triggered something in my brain that was like, oh my gosh. And I immediately like held on to that lie. I threw up for the first time in my life that night. And then I would go on a almost 10-year battle with a violent bulimia disorder disorder. And it was really scary, and it became such a normal part of my life that I didn't even think like it was first of all, it was so secretive. Almost nobody knew about it. I had become a pro at hiding this, and it was like an everyday thing, and it was such a normal part of my life, and it was like my secret friend that I loved so much, and and it like kept me safe and it kept me thin. And it was like the worst thing that could happen to me was like the safest thing for me. Anyways, finally, when I'm 28, I start really following Jesus at like 25. I'm still throwing up for a couple of years while following Jesus. There's a little bit of conviction, but I was so blind to it that I just like my heart was shut off. Like it was so shut to the conviction that I needed to stop this. When I'm like 27, 28, I was 27. It was the first time that I like really felt God be like enough, enough. And so, what was something that I loved, this horrible habit that I genuinely loved and embraced, finally became something that was like my enemy. I hate this. I finally felt conviction about it. And then I would spend a year trying to stop. And it was the hardest thing I ever walked through because I I have a journal of like I would write, bawling my eyes out, please, Jesus, I'm so sorry. I did it again. I went five days, I went two weeks. Lord, I can't do it. I'm so sorry. Please don't take your spirit from me. Like I literally thought God was gonna remove his spirit because I just could not overcome. And then I spent, and again, I didn't tell anybody, I battled this by myself. And I was like, fasting is the way I'm gonna do this. And so I would dedicate like weekly and monthly fast, one day fast, two-day fast. And I prayed so hard for almost a year, and I don't even know how it happened. But one day was the last time, just like with my drinking, one day was the last time I threw up and then I never did it again. And I every single day that went by, I almost didn't want to jinx myself. But I would be like, I'm not even like calling it like I've recovered, or I'm not telling anybody, I'm not saying like, oh, I haven't done it in five days. It's just every day that went by, I was like, okay, I think I'm free from this. And maybe like three months later, I was like, okay, I think I'm actually free from this. And I want to know your opinion on what that what is that deliverance? What is that?

SPEAKER_02 8:37

First of all, thank you for sharing. So vulnerable. I can't imagine how many people are struggling with that. And like can relate to that desire for freedom, that longing for this companion that became like, you know, a foothold in your life that was actually devastating your life, but you couldn't see it that way until Jesus brings truth. And then and then it's this process of what what we'll call transformation. Like, so the question is that deliverance, is that healing? Great question. I don't think there's a a a quick answer to that, but uh, can I can I frame maybe that experience a little bit? So other people that are walking through it.

SPEAKER_04 9:16

Yeah, and I guess one more thing I would add, which is weird, is that like I stopped that one time, but then I never had the temptation again. So I've been free for I don't even know how long, a few years now. And I just I've never had the temptation again. So that's what I'm wondering.

SPEAKER_02 9:30

Yeah, this is I think so. Clearly, there's uh Holy the Holy Spirit moves in power and does things sovereignly in our lives that one day you desire something, the next day you don't. Like I know someone who became a Christian who was struggling with alcohol her whole life, accepted Jesus on Sunday, and then felt like she could never, she's not been able to drink again. Wow. It was like she the smell of wine would she would have an adverse reaction to it immediately. And no one told her to stop drinking. I know stories like that, not all those stories. I I I want to actually frame it because it's something interesting. You're talking about like how does somebody change? I think about this a lot as a pastor. Like, how do we create environments for transformation? So I Dallas Willard has something that I would I would say is probably the most effective way to describe this because it touches on what produces transformation. And and I'll I'll get to your question. He says that in this world, we are habits of what we think. Like we are we are influenced by the thoughts we think, we're influenced by the environment we live in. Like so, our neighbors, our friends, online posts, social media, like if we go to school, the school influences us by our daily habits, like the things we do unintentionally. Like, and this is all influence in the world. Like we talked about this in the last episode. Like the world is like the society we live in that influences us. When we come into Christ, transformation occurs when we submit our thoughts to Jesus' thoughts. Like we start having a renewed mind, right? Right. So we replace bad thoughts with good or true thoughts. We take the lies and replace them. The second thing is we move from unintentional community to covenant community. This is so important for the transformation journey. Like you trying to change on your own is almost impossible. Like what makes AA so powerful in its transformation of addiction or even people with eating disorders is that it gives them a context where they're held accountable, where they're held to a higher standard of what is possible, where they have in the moment of weakness, they have someone to call and be like, I'm struggling, help me out. That's what community is for. That's what the local church is designed to be, covenant community from unintentional habits to spiritual disciplines and practices. Like we replace those habits. Paul will say, those of you that were once stealing, stop stealing, go to work and give. Like there's a real habit shift that takes place in the kingdom. And rather than being influenced by the world, we're now influenced by the environment of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit's influencing us. So that's when I look at like if you really want transformation, you're going, okay, this habit that has been formed out of trauma has created neural pathways in my brain that I have built a six-lane highway in since you were eight years old. Like this is the ideal body, this is the way to get there. You're looking for is and then you found you grabbed onto one thing that you could practice, practically do, and you have this addiction and this habit of thinking. And you have to you have to now take what would be like this is like neuroscientists would say, you take like a machete in the jungle and you start chopping down a new way to think. And that's going to create a new neural pathway. And at first, it's small, but then it becomes the new six-way highway where you're not even thinking those thoughts. That is now a jungle that you don't think anymore. Wow. That's the process of thinking. But then you create habits where you're like, hey, I don't know what that would look like for you. Like, but there are habits like I've shared this. Like when I um was younger and I was very distracted by my phone when I was a parent, and I still am. Putting the phone away when I get home to be present with my kids becomes a micro habit of discipline that has macro impact.

SPEAKER_03 13:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:05

The goal isn't, oh, I'm not my phone. The goal is now I'm present to my kids. And there's ways that you can create those habits with this pro this issue. Totally. And then obviously inviting people into that. That's huge. And then God also does things sovereignly through the power of his Holy Spirit to set you free. Um, so there's probably a bit of all of it. There's probably a bit of deliverance that took place. There's probably a bit of those habits and new things, but it's not clearly black and white. Yeah. Um I I I've had, you know, yeah, and I've had things um that were taken away immediately by the power of the Holy Spirit. So that like being set free would be the category I put that in there.

SPEAKER_04 13:42

And it's and and I say that to say like there was the moment of release and freedom, and I've never been tempted to do it again. If I were to leave right now and then fall into it, I would be right back into that addiction and that habit. Like I never left. Same thing with alcohol, you know what I mean? So like the Lord sent me free, and it's my job to stay free by never going back.

SPEAKER_02 14:02

That's exactly right.

SPEAKER_04 14:03

Right.

SPEAKER_02 14:03

Like I gave up alcohol out of a I had a vision from the Lord, a dream. And then I had a friend who struggled with alcohol and then relapsed. And when I saw him, when I went to go see him, because he was he was dealing with it, I had this very powerful visual, and I just felt like the Lord's like, hey, give up alcohol for a season with him. And then I started that, and it was a 40-day thing for Lent. And then the Lord's like, this is a lifestyle.

SPEAKER_03 14:28

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 14:28

Now, here's the thing about that. It wasn't an addiction for me, it wasn't a problem. But I will say I definitely desired to drink. I would go to weddings, I would go to friends' houses. I would, you know, I at the time I liked IPA and wine and like all it was always around. And there was like this, you know, like this habit, this desire. Now I feel like I have a superpower. Like really, yeah, I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 14:49

Do you ever crave?

SPEAKER_02 14:50

I never crave alcohol. And and it's it's just 10 years later, and it's also not a part of my lifestyle. So now it's a new habit and it's completely free. And I have helped walk so many people from of away from addiction and alcohol. And I've seen the community that's formed in those places. So it's huge. If people are struggling, I would say talk to people, like get into a church, get into a community, go get help. Don't do it alone. That's a big thing.

SPEAKER_04 15:18

Yeah, so true. Don't do what I did. I there's so much, yeah. There's so much I did in my walk with Jesus alone. And it's still the temptation for me. It's still the temptation to figure things out by myself. It's so hard for me to ask for help that I'm just like, I'm not gonna tell anybody, and I will figure it out with Jesus. Yeah, and it makes my life so much more difficult.

SPEAKER_02 15:37

Yeah, you gotta press in.

SPEAKER_04 15:39

Here I am rebuking myself, anyways.

SPEAKER_02 15:42

Oh, I thank you for your vulnerability. So all right, let's get to questions. Well, hey, this whole episode is gonna be a question and answer. We we posted a few weeks ago uh on social media, like, hey, what questions do you have regarding uh spiritual warfare? So we thought, why not do a bunch of QA? Yes, not QR. No, yeah, these are not responses, these are answers. We have some of them for you.

SPEAKER_04 16:05

Yeah, we don't believe in political correctness here. Can I say that?

SPEAKER_02 16:09

No, go ahead. You can pick your own battle.

SPEAKER_04 16:11

That is the funniest thing. No, no, we're in this together.

SPEAKER_01 16:13

String of sentences I've ever heard. We don't believe in political correctness here. Is that okay? Can I say that? That's exactly that was a great cat.

SPEAKER_04 16:22

I need a little confidence. All right, so the first question is how do you beat the enemy when you're under attack? I just got a visual of yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:34

So you study jiu-jitsu, you got trained.

SPEAKER_04 16:37

I train muua, that's why I'm so fully fit.

SPEAKER_02 16:39

There you go. That's how you do it. All right.

SPEAKER_01 16:41

Well, let me put yourself in the most tempting possible circumstances to see if you can overcome it.

SPEAKER_02 16:45

That's it.

SPEAKER_04 16:46

That's such a good answer.

SPEAKER_02 16:47

No, hey, start with this perspective. Remember, we talked about this. You are not fighting for victory, you're fighting from victory. Amen. Right? So Jesus came to destroy the works of the devil. First John chapter three. So um, Jesus had an agenda, he has an agenda for your life, but so does Satan. Satan has an agenda. So we know what he's coming to do, kill, uh, steal, kill, and destroy. So I would first say, how you know, how do you beat the enemy when you're under attack? Submit to God, resist the devil, he'll flee. A big thing that I think will kind of cycle around because some of these questions are similar, is to shut the door of compromise.

SPEAKER_03 17:26

Ooh.

SPEAKER_02 17:27

This is a big one. Most attack is the enemy exploiting access you've given him. Talk about it. Unrepentant sin, bitterness, the uh false agreements and lies that you believe. You have to break those agreements, you have to close those doors, you have to confess your sin. And then we've talked about this throughout these episodes. Take your thoughts captive, replace lies with truth, you know, use spiritual disciplines as a mechanism uh of transformation. Can I say something real quick? Yeah, you you said this, and I'm just gonna throw it out there because I when I do fasts at our church, because I would say fasting is a good way to challenge, you know, I would say anyone that's ever struggled with an eating disorder should not fast. Food. Can I just put that out there? I'm gonna say as a pastor, I'm gonna say as a pastor of a local church that's now on this podcast, I would say that if food disorders and eating disorders have been in your life, that fasting is a spiritual fasting food from withholding yourself from food is not necessarily a spiritual discipline that you should worry about right now for a long time. I just want to give you grace.

SPEAKER_04 18:38

And I will say I I used to practice fasting a lot, like weekly, every Friday. And then I went on a journey of healing my relationship with food, and I did not fast at all. I haven't fasted a l in the past year and a half almost at all. And I just started recently a little bit, and I like got really honest with myself of like, do I enjoy weighing a little bit less after I fast? Like, there was I've wrestled with that with Jesus.

SPEAKER_02 19:04

Yeah, so just in in awareness, like it that's that's a food thing. Like, let's say you have a problem with spending money, yeah, right? Like you're gonna have to get on a budget, right? And you're gonna have to submit your desire. So it'd be like, hey, don't go, you know, on Amazon every day and buy stuff. So it would be similarly as a pastor. I just want to make sure that that's a little disclaimer.

SPEAKER_04 19:22

Okay, thanks for saying that.

SPEAKER_02 19:23

Next question.

SPEAKER_04 19:24

The next question is can you talk about the different types of spiritual attack, specifically sins like lust and pride?

SPEAKER_00 19:32

You gotta answer.

unknown 19:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:35

Um do you have a response? Sure. You you go, I have a scripture I need to find.

SPEAKER_02 19:38

Okay, you go, or I'll go. Yeah. So a lot of warfare is not like spooky, it is seductive, right? A lot of spiritual warfare, it's like like Satan's like drawing you in on the desires that are already within you in the flesh. So lust and pride, those would be what I would call like not just sin, but connected to like demonic tools that are used by Satan, by demons to uh move you away from Christ-likeness, right? The goal. Uh, and so temptation, we've talked about this, but what are the categories of spiritual warfare? It's like temptation is the first one. The devil will try to tempt you with comfort and control and pleasure. And Jesus was tempted, right? Jesus was tempted by the devil, but he didn't give in to the temptation. The other thing is harassment. We've talked about this, like repetitive, repetitive pressure, things that don't leave you alone. Like that's from the enemy. That's one way that spiritual warfare comes. We've talked about oppression, this idea of like crushing heaviness, like heightens from Satan or demonic activity over time. Uh, strongholds are really big in lives. Like, this is one of the ways the enemy wins, is he he basically allows habits to form and agreements to form in your mind that uh become like a legal contract that he has access. You keep saying things will always be this way. You're agreeing with his belief systems, not Jesus's belief system. So you need to tear up that contract in the name of Jesus and get new ideas. Lust is often, man, this is gonna be, I'm gonna go too far, but oftentimes I see sin as a disordered love, right? So lust is often medicating the longing for connection. Yeah, right. So pride is often insecurity in a tuxedo. Wow. Um, it's like dressed up insecurity, which I would say pride goes two directions. I'll just say this pride is an inaccurate view of yourself. So you could have insecurity. I don't think much of myself at all. I'm I'm terrible, or you can be have an elevated self sense of self. So, so humility is an accurate view of self, right? So, so to what do we do with those things? We repent, we heal the wound that that's been caused, we name the the pain, we replace the lie, we practice accountability, and then we Recognize when we're triggered or tempted towards those things. Yeah. What was yours?

SPEAKER_01 22:04

I like the point that you're making about a disordered love because I think that is a lot of what's going on behind a lot of sins. And I'm just reminded in that vein of James chapter one, verse 13, he says, No one undergoing a trial should say, I am being tempted by God, since God is not tempted by evil and he himself doesn't tempt anyone. But each person is tempted when he is drawn away and enticed by his own evil desire. Then after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin. And when sin is fully grown, it gives birth to death. So I like to think about this as there's sort of like stages in this process, right? It's like Paul says the wages of sin is death. And we often think like, oh, if you sin, you don't go to heaven when you die. No. Sure, okay. Like that's you know, but is that really what he's talking about? And I think when you get to uh when you read through all of Romans 6, he's talking about death like right here and now. Like sin is deadly, it's poisonous, it's killing. Like, and the way I'll often explain is like, you know, we know this. Like if you lie to someone, that will kill trust in your relationship. If you commit adultery, that will kill your marriage, and so on and so forth. So you go through the sins, they're deadly, they kill and destroy good things. And so there's the death stage where you know the alarms are fully going off. You're like, wow, I'm deep in this sinful habit, this practice. My life is a mess. I've destroyed myself. Whoa. Okay. So like let's catch it before we get there. Then you back it up to stage two, sin. Okay, I'm right in the midst of this right now. Like, I'm I'm I'm living this out. It hasn't like fully metastasized and destroyed everything. It's like, okay, it's a little late, but like we can deal with this. Let's repent, let's confess, let's get restored, let's get redeemed, let's work it up. But then you can go back another step where it's desire. Yeah. He's going, temptation begins a desire. So the reason you're tempted is because of what you want, what you love, what you hunger for. So the what in what you're talking about here is ultimately like behind every sin, underneath it all, if we hold like the Scooby-Doo blanket, there is a natural desire given by God.

SPEAKER_03 23:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:53

So underneath the issue of lust, there is a desire for love and for connection and for intimacy. Underneath pride, there is a desire for worship at the end of the day, that you are you're made to worship God. Significance. Yes, importance comes from God. Yes. Those desires are there. And Satan is taking advantage of the fact that we have these natural desires and we are not going to the right source to answer them. So that's a point of vulnerability because you can't change the fact as a human creature that you want to feel important, that you want to worship something, that you want to feel connection and you want to feel love, you know? And so once that's like inward temptation here present. Well, Satan works out, you know, the whole business from consumer to seller. He's behind all of that. So, like, let's take the issue of lust, like the whole sex and lust has been commercialized in every possible way in every age. There's a reason why uh in the ancient world, prostitutes, it was a cultic thing, it was a pagan thing, it was a worship practice, you know. There weren't there was no hiding that this was a demonic thing going down today. The pornography industry, these industries are literally as demonic as it gets, as driven by Satan and his demons as it can possibly get. So not only do demons and at the end of the day, well, they'll take note of when we have natural desires for God ultimately that are being unfulfilled, that we will go searching through the earth to find something. Well, they've given us a destination. Have you tried this?

SPEAKER_03 25:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:16

Well, check this out. This will satisfy that craving. So the best way that we can deal, I think, with temptation and errors like lust, pride, all of the seven deadly sins is going, Well, what do I really want? What is the thing that's actually going to satisfy me? How do I get that thing? So I what I really want is I want love. I want connection. And I want that with the people of God in proper relationships with healthy boundaries, but ultimately I want intimacy with God. So man, I have a lust issue. I need to, I need to get intimacy with Jesus Christ. And that will fill uh the hole that I'm ultimately trying to fill. And that vacancy is making me vulnerable for temptation.

SPEAKER_02 25:52

I I love it, and it seems so easy when you say it. Yeah, it seems totally like for everyone out there, like lust. I mean, 90% of the church struggles with this issue, according to like research. It's like 89% or something like that. And like the that idea of just, oh, I just gotta love Jesus more, and that will fill it. Like the problem is this is what we're getting at is with anything, there's habits that are like natural. Like when you're away from your phone, you have this like natural tendency to like know where it is or to you get these phantom buzzes because there is literally like an addiction to it. There's a a shaped like relationship you have. And so, with all of these, what starts as like this God-given desire that gets uh distorted, which gets you know, uh commercialized, gets Satan uses all of these things, but like the warfare is not just habitual, like stop the habit. It's it is getting back to like what's the longing? How do I how do I bring that longing into Jesus? But it's it's gotta be holistic in all of it, yeah. And that's where some things are demonic and spiritual, and you can't you can't cast out what is a habit, right? You can't cast out what is a a thought formed over a lifetime. You have to do the work in that, but then there are times when you can exercise and cast those out.

Start Reel 6

SPEAKER_01 27:16

I just share like my personal journey with dealing with lust, the route that I thought I was going to be able to take to find freedom from that area, which was totally spiritual in many capacities, but also being prompted and sponsored by so many other things. Like, first of all, I just want to say like any young person who is watching this who let's take lust as an example. There is no person in the world who should be exposed to pornography, but especially not a child, especially not a minor.

SPEAKER_03 27:43

So crazy.

SPEAKER_01 27:43

So the issue is that when I was dealing with this as a 14-year-old, 15-year-old boy, the response from everyone, every preacher you get is like, stop this, break this. Yeah. But it's like it's your fault. But I was a seven-year-old child exposed to adults performing sex acts on one another on the screen. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:00

And just so you know, the average child person today is exposed to pornography at sec by second grade. Yeah. Wow. That's that's so so that's why it does need to be 100%. And you can't, and even as I'm blaming the like, this is where I'm getting at. It's like, oh, just like for someone hearing, like, oh, you just gotta love Jesus more. Like, and I know that's not what you're saying, but like the church has done a really bad job of kind of addressing transformation as a whole. It's like, oh, this is sin, don't sin. You're like, hold on. There is this, there is this ecosystem that exists that uh you have to readjust everything. Yeah, and you can readjust this piece, like, oh, put covenant eyes or put like some type of software, great, but you can find a way around. Totally. And so it's it's addressing the whole. Yeah. And so getting to the root cause.

SPEAKER_01 28:45

Yeah. So what I was expressing from chat with with James and fulfilling the true longing, that is what I think is the truth, but it's an oversimplification. Like what it actually looks like in your journey is gonna be more complicated. I shared that part of my story to say that what it looked like looked like for me to get free wasn't just, you know, I could like drive myself crazy being like, why don't I hate this sin more? And why don't I love God more? That was, I mean, I was just so upset with myself because of that, because I couldn't like emotion my way out of it. And then the the point, the climactic point for me, which actually led to freedom from this, where the enemy loses that foothold was well, I the reason I could not connect with God intimately was because of all the lies I believed about the way that God saw me and felt about me. And so I thought I needed to perform for God. I thought God was disinterested in me, that he was annoyed with me, that he hated me. So you're doing all this stuff. Yeah, I just want my dad's approval.

SPEAKER_02 29:30

Exactly. And I could I can never do it perfectly. Yeah, so so intimacy with the Father a total impossibility.

SPEAKER_01 29:36

So you had to change the way your view of God. I got healed of that mindset.

SPEAKER_00 29:40

That's right.

SPEAKER_01 29:40

And then I never even went looking to get free from lust. It just happened because that sin was a trickle down from my personal, broken, distorted view of God. Yeah. And when I found out that God was proud of me, that he loved me, as you are, not as you should be.

SPEAKER_02 29:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:57

That right there, like all my friends who were going to do the same things, I just became this broken record who had to tell people, like, dude, God loves you. If you knew how he thought about you, how he saw you, this would change. And it's so hard to explain like how those things are going to be connected, but that's my story. All connected.

End Reel 6

SPEAKER_02 30:11

Well, I've seen this so many times, and I share this all the time. One of my lines is like, your view of God shapes the way you live and interact in the world. And the wrong view of God distorts everything, your relationships, your identity, all of that. We have like 30 questions. Yeah, sorry.

SPEAKER_04 30:22

We have so many questions. All right, when I get baptized, is it typical that I will face spiritual warfare around that?

SPEAKER_02 30:28

Yes. Anytime you are publicly demonstrating the gospel in any way, you'll face opposition from the kingdom of darkness. So I would say, like anytime you're taking, you're you're moving forward in the expression of the kingdom of God, doing the things that Jesus told you to do, you will be faced with opposition. So absolutely, when we do baptism, we do baptisms every month in our church, we're always praying against spiritual warfare. Yeah. Against it. So Jesus gets baptized. What's the very next thing? Goes right into the wilderness to be tempted. By the way, led by the spirit.

SPEAKER_01 31:01

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 31:01

So just know you can be led by the spirit. Here's what I always say too. People are always like, Oh, you know, the will of God, you know, I'm gonna be fine. You're like, the will of God could lead you to a cross and public public execution. Wow. So just know that's what you're getting into. That's a good one, right?

SPEAKER_04 31:17

Did you have opposition from the enemy or spiritual warfare before starting this podcast?

SPEAKER_02 31:22

I love it. I text you guys before we started recording, like, how's everyone doing? And I was like, Are you feeling any opposition? You had spiritual opposition, stuff going on. You had rec recurring health issues with your wife, like she's been dealing with stuff. What else has gone on? You know, nightmares like crazy.

SPEAKER_01 31:37

For real. Yeah, I'm like a really good sleeper. You've and since we started this, yeah, I've had like the worst nights of sleep of my life. And I didn't, I wasn't really really put those pieces together until I just until we just started talking about this right now in this moment. Because I even this morning, I was like, I had the roughest night, kept waking up from nightmares, and I was like, that's crazy. Man, this is why am I feeling so tired and just like this is just strange.

SPEAKER_04 31:59

You know, I got up and got here and I'm like, and you don't even think about wait a minute.

SPEAKER_02 32:03

Wow, for sure. So there's there's sleep, so disruption of sleep, nightmares, health issues. Yeah, what about you?

SPEAKER_04 32:11

I've had probably an increased level of anxiety, struggles within my own mind and in my own life, specifically. And like every day that we come to film, something happens right before I get here. Something happened the other day where I was like, skirt. I said, I pulled in and I pulled out, and I said, Darren, you and Elijah got this on your own. And Darren said, if you don't come back and film with us right now, and I was like, Okay. And yeah, so literally almost every day that I've uh filmed this with you guys, it feels like there's something.

SPEAKER_02 32:45

The devil is such a bozo, he's so bonehead. Well, he's a goofball, he's not creative, yeah. He exposes his hand every time, and even when I've dealt with like legit demonic things, like there's a pride in their activity. The demons have pride in what they can do or what like what they think they are. Like, like that's why knowing your identity in Christ, knowing his authority is such a powerful weapon in against the kingdom of darkness. For me, you know, like we're in a crazy season at the church. You go to a church, so like life is wild right now because we launched a second location, exploded, and there's just a lot of activity. I would say it's kind of normal opposition for me. Like, I'm kind of at the point where it's like sleep gets disrupted, nightmares come and go, like nothing super intense other than like feeling a bit of fatigue and like some self-doubt, like in along the way. I don't know if you guys get that. Like, but it's like, am I the right person to be doing this? Like, like I think there's is the the world of like online podcasting, social media, even as a pastor, there's just this assumption that people carry, like, oh, they have it figured out, they have no, we don't. I don't have it figured out. I feel insecure regularly. I have to put, okay, this is a lie, this is true. All of that kind of comes out in moments like these where I'm like, I have to have the right content, I have to be smart, I don't want to be seen as dumb, like all these things. So it's like those normal things come out versus just like being a gift that can be received or rejected. And I could get it wrong, you just have to correct along the way. Yeah, totally. So we're not preaching heresy here. Yeah, haven't yet. I might have. Maybe those heresy hunters are coming out.

SPEAKER_01 34:20

No, I think you are right though. He always like shows his cards. I mean, the devil's in in being in opposing, he's always yeah, reflecting and showing what he's worried about. Totally. And I think one of the things that's been helpful, like in using that language, like he's such a liar and a deceiver that he knowing that like that's his language, Jesus being like, that's that's your native language when he comes and speaks, it's like, oh, actually, whatever he's saying about me, the opposite is probably true. So it's like, actually, this guy's a buzz though. Thank you for showing me the truth that God really believes about me.

SPEAKER_04 34:52

Okay, that is such a good point. So if you're someone who struggles with anxiety and you're and every time you have a thought that produces anxiety, can you automatically assume that the opposite is true of what you just thought? If any thought produces anxiety, the opposite must be true.

SPEAKER_02 35:08

I don't want to overly simplify it. Yeah, but because sometimes like anxiety, first of all, anxiety is a a human biological phenomenon, right? Like it's designed for fight or flight. And so, like that mechanism that that creates anxiety is to keep you from absolute danger. The problem is we live in a society where we've got we have anxiety over text messages that are living somewhere else, and it creates that same fight or flight, which shuts down the digestive system that causes like your immune system to drop because it's giving your body mechanisms to fight off a bear, like or to run for the next 10 minutes. So just like that, that's why it's there. The problem is we have to retrain what it is. But if you're if you're regularly triggered by something that shouldn't trigger you, then yes, operate in the opposite spirit.

SPEAKER_03 35:56

Right.

SPEAKER_02 35:57

Operate in the opposite, and and that's really important as a as a as a tool. Like if you're op like if you sense, oh, there's there's spiritual opposition, try to name like one of the questions is this is connected to that. Can you talk about how to deal with intrusive thoughts? Like for me, like you know, sometimes um demons give you thoughts. I believe that. Sometimes anxiety, trauma, OCD, stress, a warped nervous system that can trigger thoughts that are intrusive, right? So all of those things exist. For all of it, this is what we get. Name the thought and then like name the truth. This is really important. So it's like I talked about this like when you lose your peace, like go back to where the where you lost the peace. Go, okay. Why are you why are you operating quick? Why are you talking rude? Why are you passing people on the freeway? Like, what is that that's getting you to this place? Oh, go back. Like, I don't want to be late. I'm late to a meeting. Well, what's the thought associated not wanting? Oh, I don't want to be seen as like inconvenient an inconvenience. I don't want to be seen as like not responsible. I don't want people, I don't want people to think less of me. Where does that come from? Childhood. So now like you're driving fast in the on the freeway because of a childhood wound. You have to do the work to name it. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_04 37:17

100%. So good. So next one is can a follower of Jesus be possessed if the spirit lives in us?

SPEAKER_02 37:24

We've talked about this in the series, but to answer that question, like if the definition of possession is like the category of taken completely over by demonic spirits that inhabit your soul, I don't think that's possible for demons. You can't lose your or sorry, for Christians who are filled with the Holy Spirit, but you can be quote unquote demonized, to use that proper language, to a degree where there's inhabitants within your soul that have influence of your soul. We've talked about this, I think, in episode two or three.

SPEAKER_04 37:56

So yeah, we did the categories. I love this one so much. How do you know the difference between spiritual warfare and God blocking something?

SPEAKER_01 38:03

What do you think? I don't know. So I'm gonna use my sister here. I hope she watches this. My love, my sister, she became a believer a number of years ago, and will she always ask me these kinds of questions. She was when she first became a Christian, like really going hard after it. She was always asking me about generational curses and spirits and all the things. And I think one of the this is one of those issues that gets conflated really quickly is like, well, I'm experiencing some resistance. Is this the devil shutting something down, like Daniel chapter 10? Or is this God closing a door? Yeah. And uh I understand how that can be hard to discern and tell the tell the difference. I think it's at the end of the day, for me, like anytime I'm making a decision and or or there's something that I'm pursuing and it gets shut in my face. I'm usually pretty quick to be like, it really depends on where I'm coming from and why I want that decision and why I want that end goal. And there are certain things where I man, it's really, I guess I don't have like an exact framework for figuring out which one of these things is. I think it's a matter of discernment and wise counsel of uh knowledge of the scripture and of self-awareness about your own heart and and where you're coming from. So there are certain things where I'm just like, this is so obviously good. This is the devil, this is resistance from God. And then there are others where it's like I was hoping and really, really having high expectations about something, and then it doesn't work out. I'm like, okay, I'm not gonna say that's the devil. I'm gonna say, like, this is something I submitted to the Lord, Lord, if this is what you want, work it out this way. I entrust this into your hands, like my life is yours. And if it doesn't work out, I've already approached this with uh if the door gets closed, then Lord, I trust you and we'll redirect. It's great.

SPEAKER_02 39:30

It's like a totally different feeling. Yeah, and part of this is connected to the idea of guidance, discernment, hearing God's voice, like how do you make wise decisions, things like that. But also, like I think of it in terms of as a father. I'm a dad of two boys, eight and twelve. And right now, my 12-year-old, and I uh he's he's just growing up. He's he's got a will of his own. He's he's got a lot of desires and things that he wants to do. And a lot of my my role as a father is to prepare him to become a man and to also steward and shape his relationships in a way that's honoring and protecting him. So the know that I give him for, hey, can I stay up till 12 o'clock at night or eat another sugary cookie or whatever it is, is in his best behavior. That it's not Satan shutting him down. It's like there, I have his best in mind. So I so for for for if you're discerning, what is it? Look for peace. Like God's gonna lead you in peace and goodness, and there's gonna be, even if it hurts, it will there'll be a sense of peace. I think the enemy wants us to make decisions in haste, he wants us to be quick. Oftentimes, when these things happen, it won't feel like peace, it will feel like confusion or chaos. Yeah, like I I'll give you an example. Like recently we got this email, like our overflow space at our church in our church building. We rent a space, we have this overflow space we've been using for the last six months. We found out like we had one Sunday left, and we have about 500 people that go to that space between two services. So first uh thought, Satan's shutting us down, like Satan's opposing us by not giving us a space to meet in, and this, you know, this restaurant's taking over. They're clearly from Satan, and and truly they have uh statute to various uh Indian deities. So, like there's a confrontation there, right? But what happens within like a few days is we are given a new space to operate from in Costa Mesa, and God opened a door that has now has 700 people there and gave us a new space. So, like the as we're discerning, was it Satan? Was it God? I you know, I could just say God, whatever it was, God used it for better. Yeah, yeah. And I think that's where we we got to look at the bigger picture. So you don't always know, but look for the peace and in the decision making. Also, I always bring it to community, I never make a decision alone in isolation. I'm always bringing it to community. I'm always trying to, uh I don't, this is a whole teaching. I'm always trying to find my story in the story of scripture. Yeah, yeah. So I'm always trying to anchor my story into the story of scripture.

SPEAKER_01 42:04

I do think one of the like with the anxiety crisis we're facing is people, you know, have like terrible sort of like decision paralysis. I don't, I think that's kind of abnormal, though. What so many people feel that there is like cosmic significance to, you know, whatever decision they might make about like who could could should they date this person or should they accept this job or should they go to this school? And I think uh it gets so overblown that we're we turn our ears off to just normal wisdom, just like thinking things through, yeah and just like doing what seems best. Don't be dumb. And I have I've made so many seriously important decisions in my life where so I'll give you an example. I was in the midst of sort of like making a serious decision about my future in ministry and my just like the path ahead of me and and what I was gonna focus on building. And it was kind of like an either-or situation that like really stressed me out. Like I like couldn't eat, it wasn't a fast, I was just so anxious. I'm like, I'm having that experience, I'm getting ready to fight the bear. Like I can't eat, I'm freaking out. I'm so afraid of making the wrong decision and the consequences of that decision. And and so I began to pray, like, Lord, tell me what I'm supposed to do. Tell me what I'm supposed to do, tell me what I'm supposed to do. And I'm never the guy who's like, the Lord said this to me. And there was this inner whisper that was just like, What do you think you should do? And I'm mad. I'm like, no, that's not what I'm asking for. I'm not asking, you know, Elijah, what does wisdom say you should do? Like, what's what's the right call here? And the what I'm figuring out is like when it comes to these kinds of decisions, I don't want the kind of relationship that's like goo-goo-ga-ga little baby who can't ever figure out and discern or delineate what the right call is. Like, I want to be able to go, I know God's heart, yeah, I know his character, I know the scripture, and I'm surrounded by wisdom. So I can make decisions based off of like this is what makes sense to do without going like freaking out like what, and then I recognize you know, if I make the wrong call, I can unmake that decision, yeah, I can remake another one. All things work together for the good of those who love him and are called according to his purpose.

SPEAKER_02 43:58

I think what's discerning. Warfare with this is a question like is it God? Is it warfare? Like part of that is you have to have a better understanding of what anxiety is because I think that's the problem is everything makes everyone is anxious about everything.

SPEAKER_03 44:10

Totally.

SPEAKER_02 44:11

So you got to deal with the the root cause of that because God might call you to do the thing that you're terrified to do. Yeah, God might call you to put yourself in a position that's gonna create more fear in your life, but He's calling you to be courageous and you might not feel courageous, but you got to be it. Can I ask this question? This there's because there's so many, and we're gonna run out of time. How to break generational curses when your family is still willing and bond bondage, willingly in bondage.

SPEAKER_04 44:35

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 44:36

I love this one, and it's kind of connected to the other one, which I want to answer is how to perform a deliverance on a close friend who has been possessed by an evil spirit. First of all, you cannot start to free your family unless you take you take responsibility for your part in that. Well, so like I've seen generational curses um lifted and broken. Can you explain what a generational curse is? Yeah, great question. Generational curse would be things that have been placed on a family through bloodline. Uh I mean, this is where it gets really tricky because we see this scientifically. Like, there's no gene for alcoholism. But if your parents were alcoholics, you're more likely gonna be alcoholics. So, like we see that across the board. So just think generational sin that way, like when there's been a P uh repeated pattern. Like if I look at my life in the I go back to my parents, my grandparents, there's divorce, there's poverty, there's dying young. I've got alcoholism, alcoholism, violent angerism. Yeah. So you just trace it. So I would say there are some of those generational sins, some of those could be generational curses. One of my friends, um, Tammy Comer, uh, I'm I'm really good friends with her, in in there's a book John Mark wrote, and it tells her story of being set free. Like, I've known John Mark forever, and I've been in his life, in his kids' lives for uh 12 years. And Tammy has always dealt with this issue, which they thought was Lyme's disease, but it was it was a generational curse and spirit that was she was delivered of. And we're talking like you should listen to her. She talks about this on some of the podcasts that we follow. But literally, like as they were doing kind of the genogram, looking at her family system, they they noticed like these, like, I think it was like women, the oldest women or the women in their bloodline in their family would die young. And here she is with this life-altering illness and and not knowing what's going on. And they trace it to a generational curse, and and she was set free and she completely got healed, like completely healed. And now she does deliverance ministry, and so that's generational curses and sins. There's all over the place you can look it up. But here's what I want to say like, what can you do? Well, you can't set your family free, but you can take responsibility. So, what I would say is you you confess the family sin or curse, you name it, you confess it as your own, and you offer it to Jesus. This is what I've seen done a lot. This is where when you do deliverance ministry, there's an inventory usually, you'll go through these things and you renounce agreements. So, like, like if you're let's say you've dealt with addiction and now you're realizing, oh man, grant grandpa has dealt with addiction, grandma dealt with addiction, great grandpa dealt with addiction. You take on that family and just confess it to Jesus. You don't need to go crazy, don't go down this like rabbit trail of like trying to discover all the things. But as the Holy Spirit illuminates these things, confess them, forgive your family, release your family, and then begin to build new rhythms of scripture and prayer and community and therapy if needed. But you can't change, you can't change anyone else. Yeah, you can only take responsibility for yourself. Edwin Friedman, he's a famous uh family systems theorist. He talks about like organizational change and family change. And he's like, if if one person in a family or an entire organization like the US military becomes responsible for the crisis of the whole and becomes an agent of change, meaning they no longer operate in the same system the way they did. They can affect change for the whole system. So that's one way, just FYI, you can check it out. Again, there's lots of resources on this. Also, how to perform deliverance on a close friend who's has been possessed by an evil spirit. Sorry, you're dealing with this, but I want to just say you should not perform deliverances or exorcisms if you're not trained.

SPEAKER_03 48:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 48:31

Like we do it in team at our church. We train people, we walk people through a process where they watch exorcisms and deliverance ministry happen before they become the person who's part of a team. The person that's getting delivered has to want to be delivered. This is my experience. Like, yeah, they have to desire it. There's a process and education of going through the whole thing. This is important. Like going through a process of like, what are your sin patterns? What are like, what have you practiced it? Like, we have a whole list. Like, have you practiced a cult? Have you have has your family practiced it? Various other religions. Like, we'll walk through a whole process. So don't be like, okay, I learned this on a podcast. Now I'm gonna go home to my demon possessed. I'm sorry if you have a demon-possessed roommate. That just sucks.

SPEAKER_04 49:19

That honestly sucks.

SPEAKER_02 49:20

You start looking at people, come out right now.

SPEAKER_00 49:22

Don't do it.

SPEAKER_02 49:23

Come out of him. Don't do that. Also, I say, like, hey, just I know I have a every Sunday because we do ministry time and we don't, you know, there's lots of things we're praying for people. We do a cleansing prayer afterwards that we just read that involves scripture. Yeah, like anytime I do ministry, I lay hands on people and pray. I always do a cleansing prayer where it's just like reciting scripture and some prayers that my mentor who passed away gave me. And it's just a way of recognizing that there are spirits in the world that are that are not holy that want to disrupt your life.

SPEAKER_04 49:53

So we don't have a lot of time, but I do want to ask you a question. Ari and I, so this is something that we've been talking about a lot recently is Ari and I obviously were on tour. We're like with we pray for hundreds and hundreds of people, and we are girls and we love people so much and we love hugging, and like typically we attract a crowd of people who struggle with their mental health because we talk about mental health so much. And so we have seen some of the saddest things ever. We have people wailing, screaming, what looks like demons manifesting at times, like people and women shrieking, like falling into our arms, like grabbing on to us for prayer, and we hug them and we feel awful afterwards. Like we are troubled ourselves after nights like that. And so Ari and I have been talking a lot recently about the boundaries that we have to set in terms of letting people touch us, but we don't want that because we want to hug everybody.

SPEAKER_02 50:47

Sure, because you love people. Yeah, but do you think that's dangerous? Yes. So we have a prayer model. We will, I will literally like we we won't hug people when they're even if they're crying, we won't hand them tissues. We have them open their hands and close their eyes. We put their a hand on their shoulder. We don't really put their hand a hand anywhere else. We train people in a prayer model. We also have we work as a team. So I preach every Sunday, but like we have dozens and dozens of prayer people praying. Yeah, and we try to pray for individuals as a team. Yeah. And I mean, you get it, like they're putting all of that burden on you. And I mean, this is this is why why you're in it. You care and love them. So I mean, I have a lot of strategy for you. I'd be like, have a ministry team, have the support, be a part of a team that's doing it, create, create a healthy way of setting people free, and and that's creating expectations for them as well.

SPEAKER_04 51:39

Like, like and you said it's not helping with their freedom, anyways.

SPEAKER_02 51:42

No, like there's like some of it is the spirit, some of it is just the emotional connection to you as someone that's like been in their life via podcast and teaching where they want to just connect with you, and that is gonna be a burden that you carry. And you can still love people, but they I mean, you have such a a large audience of people, community that loves you, but like knowing that your well-being is important too.

SPEAKER_04 52:04

Yeah, totally. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 52:06

There, there may very well be a part of this still, where even if you like you have those boundaries and you still pray for people where it can be incredibly taxing, totally, because there we're not talking about small things, like it's it people are dumping very hard things, yeah. And being there for people, even in like a highly spiritual way, like you don't need to counsel them for it to be like a highly emotional outpouring for you, like totally, and so having those like safeguards is good so that you're not getting like ripped apart and destroyed through that process. But some of it like ministering to someone in front of you can be costly, it is always costly.

SPEAKER_02 52:39

But also, like here's the thing like this is what happens. We we train our church, like so. I'll speak for the church. We train our church in what ministry time is. Ministry time is intercessory prayer, yeah. Right? This is not a counseling session. So I don't want them to tell me a 30-minute story. Uh we have pastors that will counsel them. Yeah, this is a time where someone who's trained to hear the voice of God, to pray in the power of the Holy Spirit, to discern what's going on, to invite the Holy Spirit to minister to that person who's there and willing. That's a limited that that's what that space is for. You're not gonna pastor or counsel, you know, a thousand people in a room, you know, because you showed up, but you can offer powerful prayers of intercession and you can create a team, you know, that can do that as well. Totally to create environments for where this for the spirit of God to heal, set captives free, bring people to faith. Like that's what that space is for, not the counseling session. Right.

SPEAKER_04 53:30

Totally.

SPEAKER_02 53:31

And so I will say, hey, I'll actually tell people what do you need to pray for? I'm like, and if they start telling me the long story, I'm like, what can what will what will I say? Like, if the prayer was answered right now, what does what does it look like? So like I want, I want, hey, so I want a bullseye. I want a bullseye. Okay, I I'm so grateful that you told me like 10 years of history, but like, what are you coming here now?

SPEAKER_03 53:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 53:53

Like, is it that you want me to know your pain? Oh, I can I I hear you, thank you so much. Do you want God to help you with this? Well, what's if he showed up right now, what would it look like?

SPEAKER_04 54:03

Yeah, oh, that's so good. Pinpoint it and yeah.

SPEAKER_02 54:05

So I always say, if God could do one miracle for you right now, what's the miracle? And then they're like, they have to define it. It's like, well, I my knee hurts. I want healing in my knee. Great. Let me pray for your knee. I'm struggling financially. Let me pray with you and then let me talk you talk you to our team over here. They we have benevolence, we have money to help you cover rent. We have someone here that has an extra car. Like that's that's what I'm doing, you know?

SPEAKER_04 54:25

Yeah, totally. So good. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 54:28

Yeah, so I got a lot of questions. Um, I couldn't answer them. I answered like four or five, but we will put some answers out there on the World Wide Web somehow.

SPEAKER_04 54:36

On the world, maybe we'll we'll do it on the stories. We'll do it on the stories when this uh is released, or we'll do a post about it.

SPEAKER_02 54:42

Thank you for being with us. This is the Bible study podcast. This has been on spiritual warfare. We're so glad you joined in.

SPEAKER_04 54:48

Wow, and thank you, Elijah. We're gonna miss you so much when we cast you out. Yeah, that's that's thanks for being with us. Thank you so much. Thank you. Love you guys so much.