Bible Study Podcast

Praying in Tongues — A Biblical Framework for One of the Most Misunderstood Gifts

• Darren Rouanzoin, Angela Halili • Episode 17

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Without love, tongues becomes noise and prophecy becomes performance. That one line from Paul in 1 Corinthians reframes everything. This episode is a full biblical theology of the gift of tongues — what it is, what it is not, how it works, and why the gifts of the Holy Spirit only make sense in the context of love.


In this episode:

  • Three false teachings about tongues that need to be corrected
  • The biblical pattern of tongues in Acts — mission, inclusion, and the spread of the gospel to the Gentiles
  • What tongues actually are — and how they differ from prophecy in a public setting
  • Why tongues bypasses the analytical mind and reaches the places words cannot — the neuroscience connection
  • A man on the verge of losing his family, a prayer in tongues, and a story of radical transformation
  • Spiritual gifts are how love meets need — and without love, power loses its purpose
  • How to practically receive the gift and what to do if you feel skeptical


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This series is brought to you with the support of Logos Bible Software — the tool all three of us use when studying Scripture. Whether you want to go deeper in a passage, explore word studies, or dive into commentaries, Logos puts everything in one place. You can try it free for 60 days through our partner link below.


📖 Try Logos free for 60 days: https://logos.com/biblestudypdcst


Hosted by:

Pastor Darren Rouanzoin — https://www.instagram.com/darrenr

Angela Halili — https://www.instagram.com/angelahalili

Ally Yost — https://www.instagram.com/ally_yost


#BibleStudy #HolySpirit #ChristianPodcast #Faith #PrayingInTongues #Jesus #BibleStudyPodcast

SPEAKER_02

Hey.

SPEAKER_00

What's up? Hey. Hey guys. Yeah, do the intro. You're a pro. Try it. Try it.

SPEAKER_02

No, I don't know what to do. Welcome back to the Bible study podcast, guys. We're here. Yes. We're excited. We're ready to learn. Angie and I are ready to learn.

SPEAKER_03

If you guys don't know who we are, I'm Ang.

SPEAKER_00

I'm Darren.

SPEAKER_03

And I'm Al. And we have our special guest, Allie, for the Holy Spirit series that we're filming. You guys, we've been having the best time focusing on the precious Holy Spirit, who, as we know from the last few episodes, is a person. He's not an it, he's not a force, he's not a power to utilize at our benefit, but he's a person to know and to love and to hear from and to learn from. And so today is gonna be such a good episode because we're gonna talk about something a little bit controversial. Uh, we're gonna talk about tongues, praying in tongues, praying in the spirit. It's a gift of the spirit that all three of us have received and utilized and practiced on the daily, hopefully. How are we doing, guys? Heart check-in. How are we feeling? Good.

SPEAKER_00

Go ahead. I feel good. Yeah?

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

I'm excited to talk about tongues. It's fun because I don't know if I've really talked about tongues on the internet ever. Yeah. So for sure. It's gonna be fun.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Yeah. But overall, life's good.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, but life is good. Life's good. Life is good. God is good.

SPEAKER_00

I love it. Like we come in to record at 10 o'clock and I'm like, how's the day going? And you guys are like, it's just getting so good.

SPEAKER_02

We need to be like, How's your day so far? And I'm like, Darren, it's literally 9 a.m.

SPEAKER_00

Um, so I just keep asking, is it getting earlier? I'm just kept questioning.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

I'm doing good. There's a lot going on in my life. Yeah, there's lots going on at church, lots going on. My kids, like they're in swim and they're in Friday night lights, which is like flag football.

SPEAKER_03

Cute.

SPEAKER_00

So my they're playing football.

SPEAKER_03

They play flag football.

SPEAKER_00

They they both play flag football. On the same team? No, separate teams. And there's age specific, and it's it's absolutely amazing to watch, especially. Both of them are amazing. It's so fun. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Oh, that makes me so happy. You have the cutest kids.

SPEAKER_00

They are cute. I took my little, I have an eight-year-old and I, we he wanted to run with me, so he took his little scooter, and we ran, we I live where like a mile from the pier, so we ran to the pier, and it was so awesome.

SPEAKER_03

That's so funny. Raising kids in Southern California must be the best thing in the world because you can there's so much to do outside.

SPEAKER_00

All the time, yeah. So it is the best and it's the hardest because you you just have too many options.

SPEAKER_03

Right. It's true.

SPEAKER_00

And like I was talking to my friend in Ohio. Uh, shout out to you, Ralph. And Ralph, Ralph's like, I'm like, how's it going? He's like, I'm like, I was just running, you know, I was I was golfing the other week. I was telling him I was golfing in shorts, you know, and he's like, it's negative 10 with two feet of snow.

SPEAKER_03

See, that's like so sad.

SPEAKER_00

I'm like, yeah, that's terrible.

SPEAKER_02

That's awful. It's wild that it can be that different, just a few states away.

SPEAKER_00

A few states away. It is pretty far, but we definitely pay for it.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, we do.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, taxes and gas.

SPEAKER_03

Well, that's what our taxes are for. It's for the weather. Yeah. It's for it being direct march. Hold on. I wish that's what it was for. That's for sure.

SPEAKER_00

That's not what it's for with our leadership. But anyway, we don't have to talk about the weather.

SPEAKER_03

Never mind.

SPEAKER_00

I don't want to go.

SPEAKER_03

I am not getting into politics.

SPEAKER_00

We'll talk about politics on another episode and we'll talk about the kingdom of God. Probably not. Probably not. Well, today we're gonna talk about tongues. And you know, it's funny because you haven't talked about it on the internet. Have you ever talked about it?

SPEAKER_03

I talk about tongues all the time. Because I love it. But I don't have like a good enough theological basis. I just help them either play in tongues. Yeah, that's great.

SPEAKER_00

So what we're gonna do today is lay out a biblical foundation for the gift of tongues. What is tongues? And you know, because some of us have come from backgrounds where we've seen it as abusive or we don't want to do it. It's emotionally loaded. It's also just strange. Yeah. Like of the gifts, like when I was growing up, I'm like, that's a weird one. And then when I came into like the charismatic understanding, it was it was more like, well, that's cool about tongues, but I'd rather see healing and prophecy and words of knowledge. Like it's a little more intellectual, I suppose. I would I would put that in a category, which I just want to like kind of frame all of that, because the gift of tongues is about deeper intimacy with God, and it's about strengthening your soul in the power of the Holy Spirit. So that if right away, like it's it's the gift that God gives for personal strength and edification in your inner person. So it's a good one to go after.

SPEAKER_03

It's so good. And I've I mentioned it last episode during difficult times in life when praying is the hardest thing to do, even though it's the time you need to pray the most. Yes, praying in the spirit is the one tool that you have that it's just it gets you through hard seasons.

SPEAKER_00

Yes. Well, and I just want to say I there are three things I reject right off the bat. Number one, if you don't speak in tongues, uh, you're not filled with the Holy Spirit. That's a false teaching. Yeah. Like this is not biblical. Tongues may be a byproduct, but it's not the byproduct. Two, if you do not speak in tongues, you are not saved. That also is a false teaching. Like tongues has nothing to do with being saved. Yeah. And number three, uh, tongues are not for today. I think that's a false teaching as well. I think tongues are clearly for today. You could believe in that. That's cessationism, but I clearly believe according to scripture, tongues are open for a gift to receive today. Thank God.

SPEAKER_03

Yes.

SPEAKER_00

You want to jump in? I want to, I want to just go through a lot of text to give people a framework. So I thought we'd go to Acts where where we see this gift really come out. Acts chapter two, and then we'll get to Corinthians maybe, and we'll just figure it out together. Someone want to read Acts two verses one through four.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. Oh, the best. When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place. Suddenly a sound like the blowing of a violent wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, so we see that the Holy Spirit comes on the day of Pentecost. Church is filled with the Holy Spirit, and the immediate response is that they begin in speaking in tongues. Now, I want to just say what happens next is people are confused what's going on. And Peter will stand up and and preach for the first time, and in in that we have a recording in Acts, and he will proclaim that this is the fulfillment of the Old Testament prophecy of the Holy Spirit's coming. Now, in the actual reference to Joel 2, tongues is not mentioned. It's prophecy. It's like you're going to prophesy and have visions, and the spirit of God is going to pour out on all flesh. We've already talked about talked about this. But what clearly Luke is saying is that the coming of the Holy Spirit comes with a lot of gifts. Wow. Now, the word tongue used here in the Greek, it's the same word will be used for different definitions of tongues, which I'll get to in a second. But clearly, Luke is saying that this is these are known languages because he lists out all the different people from around the world at that point that are hearing different languages in their own language, praises being given to God. So I just want to say right off the bat, according to this, tongues are not just spontaneous outbursts of emotion. They are signposts of greater fulfillment. Wow. So what that means is for Luke, tongues and prophecy, which are almost always paired together throughout the book of Acts, are the visible and audible evidence of God's presence indwelling in people. Wow. So when Acts 2 happens, it's not just a one-time event, but it's the beginning of what will become a pattern throughout the spread of the gospel into different communities. So this is the pattern. Acts two, Pentecost comes, there's a new community that's born, and they speak in tongues, and then we'll see prophecy later in that chapter. So I just want to create the case. So Acts 10, let's go to that passage. Can we do that? Are you guys excited right now? I don't know. Yes, sometimes I geek out, and this happens at church a lot. I'm like, are you guys good?

SPEAKER_03

Like, no, this is the point of this podcast is to make everybody Bible nerds. Like your heart.

SPEAKER_00

Grab your Bible, highlight it.

SPEAKER_03

Yes, your heart needs to be set on fire for the things of God.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. So Acts, Acts 10, verse 44. Okay, I want to frame it and then you can read. Allie, you want to read 44 through 47? But here's what happens Peter is at a house and he has this vision. He's waiting for lunch to be made. I love this. And in his vision, he sees a blanket with food. So good, right? And the food is all a bunch, it's a bunch of animals that he's not allowed to eat as a Jewish person. And and and God says, Don't call something that's clean uh unclean that I call clean. And it's like, wait, you've called this unclean according to the Old Testament. All these animals are I'm not supposed to eat. Right. And so he's like, he's thinking about that. And then someone else, Cornelius, who's like this uh Gentile leader, is told from an angel to go visit this Peter and invite him into his house. So the servants of Cornelius come, knock on the door of a Jewish community, and they're like, our our master wants you to come over for a meal. And and no Jew would ever hang out with a Gentile. No one would go into a house of Gentile, they would be marked as unclean. But Peter just had this vision from God. So he goes and he goes to a Gentile's house and then he preaches the gospel. And while he's still preaching, read verse 44. This is what happens.

SPEAKER_02

While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on Gentiles, for they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God. Then Peter said, Surely no one can stand in the way of their of their being baptized with water. They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, so this is look, this is so powerful. So the gospel's moving beyond the Jewish community.

SPEAKER_02

And this is the first time that they've witnessed that?

SPEAKER_00

Yes.

SPEAKER_02

That's crazy.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. So what they're experiencing now is the Holy Spirit, while he's doing his five-point sermon, whatever it is, in the middle of it, he's like not done to the conclusion. Like, I love that because as a preacher.

SPEAKER_02

The Holy Spirit came on all of the messages.

SPEAKER_00

So now Gentiles are filled with the Spirit. That's a big deal. Why is it a big deal? Why is it a big deal? Because now what was for the Jewish believers, right, who have converted to Judaism, like they have been filled with the Holy Spirit. We know that Samaritans, which are half Jewish, were filled with the Holy Spirit in Acts chapter 8. But now it's Gentiles. Right. So it's and by the way, this is what was prophesied in the Old Testament that Israel would be a light to the Gentiles. Wow. So Jesus becomes the fulfillment of that, and then he ushers the church to go into all the nations. And so now Peter's like, what's going on? He has a vision from God, he follows in obedience. We are here because of this moment. I'm we're Gentiles, like I'm not Jewish. Like we are part of the Christian faith because of a vision from Peter when he's waiting for food. Because God like draws men and women to obey and get uncomfortable, and then the Spirit of God is sovereign in what he says. Isn't this amazing?

SPEAKER_02

That is actually insane. But what's the evidence? Peter didn't have to do anything but just speak the gospel. He was just speaking the words, and the Holy Spirit fell on these people.

SPEAKER_00

The Holy Spirit fell. Because why? Because it's a sign of God's presence. The tons at that point was evidence of the inclusion of the Gentiles.

SPEAKER_04

Wow.

SPEAKER_00

So Luke frames this. I have a quote from Craig Keener. He's one of the best New Testament commentators alive right now. He's written a in-depth exegetical commentary, which, if you have Logos Bible software, again, they're not sponsoring this. I'm just saying you can have it. Um, Luke frames this as the decisive evidence Peter needed. It is God's own endorsement of Gentile believers. The Holy Spirit has fallen, they're speaking in tongues. That's how we know it's happening.

SPEAKER_03

Wow.

SPEAKER_00

All right.

SPEAKER_03

Praise.

SPEAKER_00

One more. Acts 19, one of my favorite stories.

SPEAKER_02

I gotta get my face in Acts again.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, you do. There's nothing like it. We're going verse by verse to this. So there you go. I'm gonna preach on verse uh 9 through 15 this week. Acts 19 is the story of Ephesus. So what you read in Acts 2 was the Pentecost, Pentecost Sunday.

SPEAKER_04

Right.

SPEAKER_00

Scholars will call Acts 10 the Gentile Pentecost. Spirit comes down on the Gentiles. Acts 19 is the Ephesian Pentecost. So this is the outpouring of the Holy Spirit pouring out on different communities. And look at what happens. This is, I'm gonna read this real quick. It's it's verse one. Uh, while Paul was at Corinth, Paul took the road through the interior and arrived in Ephesus. When he found some disciples, he asked them, Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed? They answered, No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit. I think this is so great. So he's like, Okay, we got to clarify your theology. What baptism did you receive? John's baptism. And Paul's like, I get it. John's baptism was one of repentance. He told people to believe in the one coming after him in Jesus. Remember, the gospel writers say, Jesus is the baptizer, and what will he baptize you with?

SPEAKER_04

Holy Spirit.

SPEAKER_00

The Holy Spirit and fire. Wow. So on hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them. They spoke in tongues and prophesied. They're about 12 men and all.

SPEAKER_01

Come on, are we preaching?

SPEAKER_00

This has fire on this talk already. We're talking about tongues. And if you don't hear our passion, this is amazing.

SPEAKER_01

This is so good. Oh, they didn't know. They said, What is the baptism of the Holy Spirit?

SPEAKER_00

What, what, who is the Holy Spirit? Yeah. Which so many, so many Christians don't know the Holy Spirit. Yeah. They know repentance, they know the Bible, they know Jesus, they know the Father. But we need we need a relationship with the Holy Spirit. We need to humble ourselves and say, Come, Holy Spirit, do it again. Yeah. Like Acts 19.

SPEAKER_04

Right.

SPEAKER_00

And I want to I want to clarify David Peterson, another commentator, says, Each outpouring signifies, thank you that a new community has been incorporated into the spirit-filled people of God. So the Holy Spirit falls, they speak in tongues, they prophesy. That's shorthand as a literary content, like content. So Luke will use this as a literary device to say these people are included in the spread of the gospel and the new body that's coming out. So tongues are part of a sign of something bigger. Okay, you good? Yes. This is all big theology stuff. Now let's answer the question, all of you out there, what are tongues? Right? The Greek word glasa, tongues. I'm just gonna give you my definition and cite some comment commentators. Tongues are a form of prayer and praise directed to God in a language that the speaker does not understand. Yeah, that's what tongues at its most basic level. It's prayer or praise. Yeah. That's directed to God in a language that you don't understand.

SPEAKER_04

I love that. So that's such a good explanation.

SPEAKER_00

All right, so that's the definition. Gordon Fee, he says it's spirit-inspired speech directed to God, unintelligible unless interpreted. So we know that we get to Corinthians, there's this public gift of tongues that's used for the purpose of encouraging, strengthening, and lifting up the church, the body that's present, but it requires an interpreter to interpret the tongue. But the tongue I want to talk about right now is really the gift of tongues that is directed as prayer or praise, empowered by the Holy Spirit. That's primarily vertical, and it's given by the Holy Spirit for your personal edification. Like, so I'll I'll go into it in a second, but can we just talk about that for a second?

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Because we all speak in tongues, and I don't I want to demystify it, I want to like normalize the experience. I was asking you, what was it like? Because you're three years into your faith, and you say no one in your your world knows this. But will you tell us the story?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I'd say I received the gift of tongues like a little over a year ago. And it was funny, Darren was kind of asking me about it off camera, and he was like, Oh, it Bethel? And I'm like, no, I actually was literally on my living room floor when I was alone. No one was in my house. But I think what was leading up to it is like there there actually was a bubbling within me of like where I for months where I was like, Lord, I want this gift so bad. And for a long time, I wouldn't ask for it. I was like, that's okay, God. Like I had experienced it around me at churches and in environments and stuff, but I don't know if I I was kind of scared that it was gonna be like this weird possession thing where it just like takes over your body. Like I didn't fully understand what it meant, you know? And so I was like, I don't know if I really want that. And then the more that I understood what it really was and what it was meant for, and that it really is like a sweet connection of just you and and God, and and it is a way to like strengthen your spirit, man, and also give you words when you don't have like English words to speak. And so I think I was also noticing that like in my quiet time with the Lord, where I would come to him with things and I'm like, I don't even have words right now. And I could just feel that my spirit like wanted to go there, where I was like, I wish that I had another way to pray, but like it's not English words. And so I think I was just like naturally being led in that direction by the Lord, where he was like, it's okay, it's safe. And I was like, I think I want it. Like I really want to experience that with you, Lord. But I probably prayed for it like earnestly with like my whole heart. I was like, God, I want this gift so bad for like maybe five to six months where I was just I kept praying for it and I kept being like, okay, God, in your timing, like I trust that when you give me this gift, like that's when I'm supposed to receive it. And it's funny, I had this, I had this moment in Trader Joe's. I was standing in the frozen food section, and I was just like talking to myself about the groceries that I wanted to get, and the word yesh came out of my mouth, and I'm like, that was weird. I was like, what does that mean? And then a couple days later, I don't know, it's like bubbling in me, like something was coming up. And so a couple days later, I was in my quiet time. My roommate had left, and I was just worshiping the Lord on my living room floor, and there was a set that I had playing by Jeremy Riddle. Um, it was We Crown You Holy.

unknown

Yes.

SPEAKER_02

And it was the part, there's this one part where you literally feel like you're going to heaven. And I, it wasn't a possession feeling. It wasn't like all of a sudden I was possessed and I didn't know what was coming over me. I felt the Lord gently be like, start with that yesh. Yeah. And I was like, okay. And I just, I just, I said, yesh. And then it was just like all these, and I was like, try, like, I it was the Holy Spirit guiding me, but I was like trying different vowels and like I was just letting it just flow, like no pressure. I felt him being like, don't think too much. Just just try. And the next thing I knew, I was literally speaking in tongues. But it was kind of funny. It felt like I was like, I was trying to ride a bike for the first time and I had training wheels on it still. Like it was a little wobbly, but I was getting it. And I was like, this is kind of fun, God. And then over the la the next like few days and few weeks, I was just like practicing it with him in my quiet time. And then I was speaking in tongues. And I was like, this is so cool.

SPEAKER_00

That that's so cool. The way you describe that is so great. Cause I feel like it's so helpful for people. Cause one, it does when it when it first comes, it feels like a bubbling up.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Two, it, you're, you're not, your mind's not hijacked. So you're mentally like, what am I saying? Like, is this gibberish? Like, totally, or is this the gift of tongues? And you're like, you're there's like usually an internal battle. Yeah. And it does feel like you're riding the bike for the first time. You're like wobbly and not getting it. And then, and it requires practice. All of those things are like what when I teach people, like those are the things I share. And that's like the perfect example. You don't have to be in this hyper charismatic environment where like shit about a Honda. And like they're telling you to say things, and you're like, that's not how it is. It's like this gentle wooing of God. You're like, I want, I want more for you.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. So good. And even in it, I was like, is this like, what am I supposed to say? And he was like, no, we're just gonna, we're just gonna flow.

SPEAKER_03

And that's such a good thing to mention, Al, that when you do first start praying in tongues, for some people, it's like this like birthing that happens and it feels so natural. And then I think for so many other people, it's something you start to stumble into, and you also might even doubt at first if you're really even doing anything. Yeah. Because you might not necessarily feel anything in the beginning. You know what I mean? So I think that's so good to mention that you were just like, I hope this is working. I hope that this is right. Yeah. And over time you gain confidence and you're like, no, no, no, I know that this is right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

I just felt the Lord encouraging me to not overthink it. And it was so sweet the way he was like guiding me in that moment. Yeah, yeah. He was yeah, the best.

SPEAKER_00

Do you want to share your story? Yes, tell me yours.

SPEAKER_03

So my uh beginning of praying in tongues is a little similar to yours, Ali. So I I've told this before, but the man who mentored me, Socrates, he's a hyper charismatic, spirit-filled man. And for some reason, it's so beautiful. But the beginning of my faith, I had no judgment towards any of the gifts of the spirit, even if I wasn't operating in them myself, because Socrates was so prophetic and he prayed in tongues and it was so normalized. So even before I was operating out of gifts, I believed in them fully. Like I was like, if this is in the Bible, I know that this is real. The Bible says it. Like there's no getting around it. And so I didn't have any judgment towards tongues. And Socrates would always pray in tongues around me and my mom. And then one time we were all sitting together and we were praying, and Socrates looks at me and he's like, pray in tongues. And I was like, I don't know what that means. And so my mom starts praying in Albanian. And so, and Socrates is like, that's just not telling you. I mean, kinda. And so I just am like watching Socrates pray in tongues, and I just start praying in tongues, and I'm kind of listening to what he sounds like, and I'm kind of mimicking him a little bit, but just like focusing on a couple of syllables, and it just felt so natural. And I believed with all of my heart that even if I wasn't feeling like something insane was happening, I knew that I was conversating with God.

SPEAKER_04

Oh, so great!

SPEAKER_03

And so after that, Socrates, every time we would talk, he would be like praying tongues, praying tongues, just keep praying in tongues. And so, what started out as like just a couple of syllables, like ba, like something like that, turned into it's like you add more consonants and values. And more syllables, and then it starts to just flow out of you. And you have to practice, and you just have to keep praying in tongues. And now, maybe like five years into praying in tongues, I it sounds like a legitimate language coming out of me. And sometimes it sounds Spanish. And sometimes it sounds like I can hear like these different accents coming out in my tongues at times. And I remember when I first started praying in tongues, I would be praying in tongues at times and wonder, is this doing anything? Like I doubt it at times. And then I just continued and continued and I believed what the word said. Yes. That this is a heavenly language between me and God that Satan can't understand. And that was like my favorite part about it. Cause I was like, you don't know what I'm saying. Yeah. And it's just like, like we talked about, it's one of the greatest tools for me because when I don't have words to pray, I'm just like, thank you, Jesus, that the Spirit Himself is praying on my behalf right now. Thank you, Lord, that I don't know what I ought to pray for, but the Spirit makes intercession for me through this beautiful gift that we have. So that's kind of what it was like for me. And yeah.

SPEAKER_00

I I love it. I I grew up not believing in the gifts of the spirit. So I had like especially tongues. Like kind of when it came to like the fear of the charismatic world, it was like, well, they're doing this like thing that some in the circles that I was running in as a kid would call it even demonic.

SPEAKER_04

Right.

SPEAKER_00

And then I come from an academic household. My dad's a clinical psychologist. He helped like in the beginning process of EMDR, which is a therapy. So I had this like intellectual thing. So I think there's a lie out there that like to be using the gift of tongues or to they they see tongues as this gift that disconnects from your intelligence.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And that also is a lie. So when I went to Vanguard, I studied theology and I became open to the things of the spirit, never experienced a context that prayed for people or practiced them. But I did pray. I was always praying for prophecy in tongues. And you know, write journal, I have all these journals of like, Lord, I just want to speak in tongues. And it was like nothing happened for probably two years. And then one day I was writing uh uh back in the day, nobody had like laptops. You had to go to a computer lab because internet was connected. Computers? I know. So we had computer labs and you had you didn't have Wi-Fi yet. You had like you had to like do an Ethernet connection. So that's when I went to college. And I was I was walking at like 10, 10 o'clock at night to the mailroom. And my girlfriend, who's now my wife, was uh in NorCal. It was spring break. And yeah, shout out to Alex. And uh we I was walking back from the mail room to the computer lab, and I was just praying out loud, Lord, I just love you, I want to know you. And I start speaking like it bubbled up, this feeling of like bubbled up. I started speaking in gibberish. That's what I thought. I'm like, that's weird. I'm speaking in gibberish. And I'm like, is that tongues? I didn't know. I kept kind of trying to go. I'm like, I'm stopping. It's weird.

SPEAKER_01

It's so funny how we like overthink the whole thing. We overthink, I can only imagine God's face during that time. He's just laughing. He's like, okay.

SPEAKER_00

But he loves this. Is what happened to me. So I call Alex, who also comes from a background that didn't really believe in the gifts. And she's like, Well, if it's from the Lord, he has to confirm it, right? I'm like, Yeah, he'll confirm it.

SPEAKER_02

So I go back, start How did she feel about it at the time? Was she also skeptical?

SPEAKER_00

She was open but also hesitant.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

She had a roommate who was a wild charismatic. And I used to debate her all the time. And at the time, she was in New Jersey. So this is at 10 o'clock at night. So three hours ahead. She wakes up from a dream, Diana, calls Alex. The roommate, the roommate, okay, and says, in New Jersey, calls Alex in NorCal to say, Darren, receive the gift of tongues. Tell him I I need I need to call him to confirm it's the gift. So Alex calls me and I'm like, what's going on?

SPEAKER_02

She has no and the roommate of Jesus. Three hours ahead of New Jersey. I love Jesus.

SPEAKER_00

Like this is what I needed a sign. That's a sign, like a sign, right? That's a sign and wonder of like, okay, this is from the Lord. That's that's how like God was. Just safe the Lord.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, that's it. That is that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And it was a defining moment for my life. So I was like, okay, and and it be it felt awkward. It felt like I don't know what I'm doing.

SPEAKER_01

It's so awkward. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Like, is this right? And over time, it has become the thing that's enabled me, strengthened me in moments where I just don't know what to do. And that's what I want to say. It's heaven's language working through the deep storage rooms of your being to strengthen your soul. Wow, wow. Like because that word edify, it has to do with restore from within or strengthen from within or build from within. And Paul says that this gift is to edify you, right? And that's where I think actually I have this framework for people. And I don't know how well of an illustration it goes, but I've I've I've thought about it in terms of like neuroscience and EMDR uh therapy and like pneumatology, which is the study of Holy Spirit. So when you sleep, your brain doesn't shut off, it actually heals, it doesn't shut down, it restores. So when you go to sleep, there's something called REM sleep, right? Um and it's it's your eyes move rapidly back and forth. And what REM sleep does is it enables the fragments of stress, of emotion, of memory throughout the day that your brain has taken in. And it just kind of integrates that into wholeness. Okay, that's what REM sleep does. So when you're not sleeping, you're irritable, you're angry, you're anxious, it's a form of torture. Like your body doesn't shut down, your brain just needs to go into a state of healing. Healing happens beneath consciousness with REM sleep. So similar to EMDR, which we've talked about, EMDR is a bilateral stimulation. So it's moving your eyes or your hear uh from left to right, or you put on headphones and a therapist will put headphones on and it will have a sound on this side, a sound on that side, and it's a and they will get you to think about a memory that's causing triggers or pain or trauma in your life. And all they're doing is listening, you're allowing you to think while the bilateral movement's going on. The memories are brought into an awareness in that time. And because of the bilateral movement, EMDR has seen a progressive expedited healing journey for people that take it, where it releases the pain that is often held hostage in your brain, in your memory. So, for example, what it what am I getting at? So, EMDR, let's say you've heard about like PTSD, like someone was in Vietnam and they experience horrible things. And then they're, you know, 40 years later, they're with their grandkids, they hear a car backfire, and that sound triggers that sound, that sensory uh memory or sensory, yeah, uh triggers a sensory memory of a loud explosion back in Vietnam. And now they're back there, like they're triggered as if they're living in that experience. Well, EMDR can help uh diminish and desensitize people's responses to those triggers by using bilateral movement. Now, here's where it gets interesting. Paul says in 1 Corinthians chapter 14, 4, anyone who speaks in a tongue edifies themselves. So I think when we open ourselves up to the Holy Spirit and there's this prayer language, this Holy Spirit allows us to bypass the analytical side of our brain, not to put it aside, the guarded parts of our mind, so that the places that are stuck in logic or fear or self-consciousness, now the spirit in our inner person is directly communing. So where the Holy Spirit can touch trauma and confusion, grief hidden in our soul, the presence of God, which is perfect love, comes into that space and helps reprocess those things in the power of the Holy Spirit.

SPEAKER_03

That's I am freaking out. That is the best explanation of tongues I have ever heard.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I don't know if it holds up. This is my this is my framework. This is my framework. So this is my illustration. This is what happens in my life when I'm working through like deep grief. Like and I've done therapy, I've been in therapy sessions, I've done EMDR where I'm also inviting the Holy Spirit, inviting Jesus into those memories. And you don't need to do that all the time, but there are moments where I'm praying for someone who's going through something terrible, and I don't have words to comfort them, but I pray in the spirit.

SPEAKER_04

Right.

SPEAKER_00

Quietly next to them in a context that matters. That's not me praying in tongues for the sake of an interpretation that's going to be prophecy, which I want to talk about. This is me just allowing the inner person to be strengthened by the presence of God.

SPEAKER_03

Yes. This is wild. That is the best explanation. It literally gets you out of your analytical brain because I just feel like even maybe in prayer, you can get stuck in this loop of praying the same thing over and over again, but you're not getting to the root of anything. Right. So good.

SPEAKER_00

So we're trying to give you a framework for tongues. We talked about Acts. Let's go to a little bit of Corinthians. I want to just frame Paul's context because Paul's context in Corinthians, 1 Corinthians, chapter 12, 13 and 14. This is kind of his big thesis for the Corinth, the church in Corinth. Now, when we get to Corinth, remember all scripture is occasional, meaning that it's written to a group of people uh for a specific purpose, uh, for a specific reason by a specific person. So context matters. Corinth was a wreck like Corinth had a lot of issues going for it, going against it. And so Paul's just correcting this theology. And we see that in uh 1 Corinthians chapter 12. He he kind of explains kind of the gifts of the spirit. So I'm just gonna do a quick overview and really land on tongues if that's okay. I don't know if we'll have enough time to get through all of it, but we'll try. First Corinthians chapter 12, verse 1. Why don't you start in verse 1 through 7? Would you just read those?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. Now about the gifts of the spirit, brothers and sisters, I do not want you to be uninformed. You know that when you were pagans, somehow or other, you were influenced and led astray to dumb idols. Dumb. I love it. Therefore, mute idols. Therefore, I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, Jesus be cursed, and no one can say Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit. Wow. There are different kinds of gifts, but the same spirit distributes them. There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. There are different kinds of working, but but in all of them and in everyone, it is the same God at work. Now to each one, the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. To one there is given through the Spirit a message of wisdom, to another a message of knowledge by means of the same spirit, to another, faith by the same spirit, to another, gifts of healing by that one spirit, to another, miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another, distinguishing between spirits, aka discernment, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues. All these are the work of one and the same spirit, and he distributes them to each one just as he determines.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, so Paul writes to a church that's characterized by like loud, charismatic, like frenzy of spiritual gifts, and they're lacking love, right? So he's gonna correct that problem. He's gonna correct. They have also in Corinth, they have an over-emphasis on the gift of tongues. They they in we know this, like scholars have made this clear that the church in Corinth sees the gift of tongues as like the priority gift, like it's the best one to have. So they're they're misusing the gifts in general. So we'll talk about that.

SPEAKER_03

Is that why he says I'd rather you have prophecy?

SPEAKER_00

Yes, that's well, that's one reason, but he also makes the case because it it has something to do with edifying the unbeliever. Yeah, but Paul is grounding all of the gifts in one spirit over and over again. It's there's one spirit. That's good, that's good. One spirit. And then the purpose of all the diversity of gifts is for the common good, and for the common good being the body and the church growing in maturity. So the spirit gives a variety of gifts, but all gifts serve one purpose, and that's to strengthen and serve others.

SPEAKER_03

But the gift of tongues is the only gift that's really given for ourselves, essentially.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, the gift of tongues, which isn't it's not mentioned here. This is a gift because the tongues he mentions here, well, it says to another different kinds of tongues. Yes, that's mentioned. And then another the interpretation of tongues. So I'm gonna just I'm gonna talk about that in just a second. But yes, the gift of tongues that's a private language for you is the edification. All the other gifts are to serve other people. Okay. So if you have the ability to pray for the sick and they get healed, the healing gift is not for you, it's for the person that receives healing. Does that make sense? Yeah. So then he breaks this up, verse 12, and then he he goes on and and he has this whole chapter on love. I just want to highlight that. Paul interrupts the discussion of the gifts of the Holy Spirit to insist that the only context that the gifts that give spiritual gifts meaning and legitimacy is love. Wow. So I want to just say this is where the the badge of like I have tongues or I have prophecy, like that just has to go away. The elevation of gifts has to go away. It should be the elevation of Jesus. Yes. Right? And and for the purpose of serving, washing feet. So, so if our heart isn't filled with love, like when I pray for people that come forward and they're coming forward because Jesus is prompting something inside of them in our church, or when I'm praying for someone on the street, like it's gotta be motivated by love that I want this person to encounter God and to experience something that God wants to give them. So I'm not going, well, I only have the gift of prophecy, so I'm only gonna prophesy. They might need a healing. So, like out of love, I'm like, God, what do you want to do? And oh, I'm gonna pray for this person sick. They have cancer. I want to pray in love for the healing and wholeness of this person. So love always becomes the context for the practicing of the gifts. That's really important in my mind. So spiritual gifts are how love meets need.

SPEAKER_04

That's beautiful.

SPEAKER_00

That's that's from Sam Storms. He because without love, he'll say, tongues becomes noise and prophecy becomes performance.

SPEAKER_03

Wow, wow, wow.

SPEAKER_00

If you think about like what the house that's being cleansed in the prop prophets and the priests, like right now, there's there's a lot of prophets that are being exposed for things. I would say, well, this is it comes down to this right here. Love was no longer the motivation, it was performance.

unknown

Wow, Lord.

SPEAKER_00

So the maturity of the church is not measured by how spiritual its experiences are, but by how deeply it reflects the love of Christ.

SPEAKER_04

Wow.

SPEAKER_00

So gifts without love distorts God's God's character, and love gives power its purpose. But then it goes on.

SPEAKER_02

Wow, love gives power its purpose. That's really pretty.

SPEAKER_00

Thanks. That's good. I wrote that one down here.

SPEAKER_03

I like that. We're gonna coin that. Love gives power, it's purpose.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I mean, that's what that's what Paul's getting at in chapter 12. Yeah, and then in chapter 14, he prioritizes in verse verses one through five. He says, follow verse one, follow the way of love and eagerly desire the gifts of the spirit. So should we desire the gifts? Yes, according to Paul, especially prophecy. So he's gonna emphasize prophecy. For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to people but to God. There it is. So that's hey, so this is about you and God, right? Um, indeed, no one understands them, they utter mysteries by the spirit, but the one who prophesies speaks to people for their strengthening, encouraging, and comfort. Anyone who speaks in a tongue edifies themselves, but the one who prophesies edifies the church. I would like every one of you to speak in a tongue, right? But even more to prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues unless someone interprets, so that the church may be edified. Okay. So much theology.

SPEAKER_04

One, right? But this is it.

SPEAKER_00

One Paul is saying tongues, unless interpreted, edify the speaker. Prophecy edifies the whole church. Right. So we have to recognize that tongues is primarily a private language for you and God. Um, and the emphasis in a communal context is prophecy, which so it can be used for prophecy as long as there is somebody there that has the gift of interpretation.

SPEAKER_03

And that's where we get into the argument of can people should people be speaking in tongues for like on a stage, on a stage pulp.

SPEAKER_00

And this is so controversial because people have their opinions. So I'll let like various churches have their opinions. Okay. In our context, we haven't ever had a public tongue, like from the stage, but I have so many stories. I want to share one. Yeah, I have a story about tongues and interpretation, and so there was uh a leader in our church who for about a year was struggling with alcoholism. So we took him off leadership. He had lots of kids, a wife who loved him, and our elders were walking deeply and closely with this couple, got him into multiple rehab centers, and he would get sober and then go back. And it was just volatile, it wasn't working. And because he didn't, he wasn't, he married his wife and they lived in another country, and uh the visa situation, he didn't have a visa here and it was running out. He wanted to go back home, and that meant he could never come back to the United States, and he has five kids, and it was so desperate, and we had been walking so much. We were like, fine, we'll buy you a ticket, we're done. Like, leave your family, leave your wife. Alcohol has won you. We're gonna hand you over.

SPEAKER_04

Wow.

SPEAKER_00

So that was a Saturday night after weeks, like it got so bad. We're I was just over it. I'm like, I'm done. Like, leave this poor woman and your these kids alone. Like, I'm gonna walk with them, and you're just destroying it. The next Sunday, I was preaching on deliverance at our church, and two of his kids were getting baptized. So he comes and he sits for two services. And in between services, my wife grabs me. She's like, All the elders are here, you guys gotta go pray. And I was like, nah, I'm done praying. I feel so heartbroken by it. I was so I was like, I'm so tired of what he's doing, you know, and I had no faith. So we go into this back room, I get dragged into this room. It's and in between services, it's chaos. Our elders are praying all these prayers of faith, and I'm just resistant. And then the Lord says, Darren, you gotta pray. And I I hear this like phrase in my head, and it's not English, and I can't stop thinking about it. I haven't said a prayer, prayer's going on, they're all called, and I'm like, I'm like, I don't know what I'm gonna pray, but I'm gonna pray. So these are all the elders. I'm like, hey guys, you know who I am. You know I've never done this before. I'm gonna pray for something. And if one of you has an interpretation, that would be great. So I pray this prayer, and I don't know what I'm saying. And it's like the fear of God comes over the room, maybe because it's awkward, but then another elder has an interpretation, and it is this wild claiming of identity and breaking free from demonic strongholds and claiming this as a son of Jesus and son of God and breaking off. He has been sober ever since that moment.

SPEAKER_03

I have goosebumps all over my body.

SPEAKER_00

Now, now this guy is now on staff. We're talking three years of radical transformation, and his family's reconciled, and it's just the most beautiful story of like how like God will use like obedience to set people free. Like when I shared this story on stage, this guy grabbed me and he's he he's from South Africa. He says, Darren, I've never told you this. And he tells me his story. His family comes from a line of witch doctors in South Africa, right? And he he comes from the a tribe that has a history of witch doctors. And before they moved back to the United States, he was on this journey of like ancestral worship and going down the line. And and he kept having recurring dreams until one day he didn't have a recurring dream. He saw a person in white in his dream say this phrase. And I prayed the exact phrase that the dream he had two years before he moved. Like, you can't make this up. I'm not making this up. And if you know, you can go talk to these people in our church, they're on staff, they know who they are. God is a God who's sovereign, who will speak through donkeys, yeah, who will use those who are obedient, and there's so much more. And we just got to open ourselves up to him. But that's the power. That's how I've witnessed it. Wow, I've witnessed it in my own life, and it is remarkable. I've I haven't ever experienced anything like that since. This is a couple years ago, but that's the power, and that's prophecy, right? It was the proclamation of Jesus. It was Jesus' ministry being at like edified. The entire people were edified. His life was changed, he was healed, he was set free, he was delivered, all in this moment of prayer. Like that's what happens.

SPEAKER_03

Wow. So I can't so I mean that is absolutely beautiful.

SPEAKER_00

That's and that's where public tongue requires interpretation. And it's more for God bringing about edification for the church, edification for the community. Now, I just want to say, what is the posture that we have? I think the church must cultivate an eagerness for the gifts, the gifts of wisdom, the gift of discernment, the gift of prophecy, the gift of healing. We need to get back to the source of the Holy Spirit. We need to stay open to the Holy Spirit, let love be the motivation, let there be order, let order guide us. It doesn't have to be chaos. Like power is often coming through liturgy. I'll say this all the time. Like, you know, the charismatic world will like, you know, spirit moves through spontaneity. I'm like, I agree sometimes. But Pentecost, the day the Holy Spirit fell in a church, was a festival ordained in the Old Testament.

SPEAKER_04

Wow.

SPEAKER_00

It was part of a calendar rhythm.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Right. And it happens through prayer hours. Like when the whole the man who was um begging at the gate called Beautiful in Acts chapter three, when he gets healed, healed, it was during the prayer hours. That the uh Peter and John were walking to pray in the temple at a set time that was set by a liturgy. So God is not against order, He's the God of order. But I do think we need to be open to let power flow and guide us.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So let me summarize this though. According to the scriptures, I think there's four biblical expressions of tongues. Okay. Okay. Number one is the biblical expression of tongues is for mission. So in Acts two, known languages are given in Acts two, and that's for the mission of God to spread. The spirit of God comes down. It's intelligible to the hearers around them. They hear praises being given to God. That's a missional expansion of the church. The second, according to Acts chapter 10 and 19, tongues are used for inclusion. They're a sign of these people are included. So the Gentiles and the Ephesians have that. We don't know if they spoke in known languages or in glossolia unknown languages. We just know that the Spirit of God arrives and they're speaking in tongues for inclusion. The third is for communion. We know that the gift of tongues are a personal prayer language in 1 Corinthians chapter 14. We see that the Spirit leads us to be in communion with God. Yeah. And the fourth is for edification. So this is where a public tongue with interpretation leads to the church being edified. Wow. Those are the four mission, inclusion, communion, edification. That's what I see as the biblical practice of tongues.

SPEAKER_02

I have a quick question.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, let's go.

SPEAKER_02

Could tongues ever be used in a sense of like defense against demonic attack? Like it against the demonic? And I ask that because this is kind of silly, but it's happened in my dreams so many times. Is when if obviously I'm asleep and I'm dreaming and there's something that's happening in my dream that is clearly evil, like whether I'm being attacked or followed, or it's like weird. My in my dream, I will literally look that thing in the eye and I will be speaking in tongues in my sleep. In your sleep. But I'm like looking at the evil thing and I'm in tongues at it. I'm like, what is that?

SPEAKER_00

Because the enemy can invade dreams, right? So the enemy, so when I pray for my kids every night, I pray, Lord, um, would you have dominion over their thoughts and dreams? Would you rule over their dreams? Like, because the enemy comes after our family. That's what happens. And yes, so I would, I would just prayer, pray prayers at night before you sleep if you have dream problems like this. Yeah. And then absolutely a spirit will intercede on your behalf.

SPEAKER_02

It's so cool. Because obviously I'm not like I wake up and I'm like, girl, you were kind of going crazy in your dream. That was wild.

SPEAKER_00

The way you talk to yourself is so great.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, me and Al work tight. That's one of the main ways that I use praying in the spirit, is like when I know something's something is going on. Like I go to war in tongues in tongues. In tongues. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. I mean, so I I think this is good. I actually had a very defining dream where I I had it was the wildest dream. And it in my dream, I had a dream within the dream, like the movie Inception, which you probably haven't seen. No, I've seen it. Have you? I don't want to like assume great films like Star Wars you haven't seen.

SPEAKER_02

So well, I don't know. The sci-fi stuff.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, can we just like you've seen Inception? You know about Inception? I know about Christopher Nolan.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Okay. I don't know, actually.

SPEAKER_00

All right. Friends, please help me with this. The one that I'm thinking of.

SPEAKER_02

I think it was the one with Leo.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it's Leo. Dream within a dream within a dream. Yeah, okay. There you go. You did. Good. Christopher Nolan. Watch all Christopher Nolan films. They're great. So uh expect some of them. Yeah, are they wait a minute? Disclaimer, some of them are not. Um, but I had this dream within a dream, and I wake up in the dream being attacked by a demon. Okay. And then I start praying in tongues in my dream. And I wake up praying in that tongue. And I like I it was so distinct. I Googled it and it was the Arabic word to bind.

SPEAKER_01

Wow.

SPEAKER_00

So like that was a very like, whoa, this is nuts. Like, I, you know, and it was, I had the dream when I was doing a big ministry trip in the UK. So it was very strange. But yeah, I mean, this is how it works. And and I think part of it is just jumping in and trying.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

But I do want to, before we close this episode, I think I could just share a couple of thoughts on like desiring the gift of tongues, like just leading people to like open themselves. Like, number one, the question isn't whether or not you should or have to pray in tongues. It's more of like, do you want more of God?

SPEAKER_01

Do you want it?

SPEAKER_00

So, so I would just start there. Like, do you want more of the Holy Spirit? Like, all of the gifts are available for all of the church. I believe that. I believe all of Jesus' ministry is available for all of the church. So if you want greater intimacy with the Father, Son, Holy Spirit, welcome the Holy Spirit into your life and ask for the Spirit's help in receiving gifts. So, so one is just have an open heart and posture to the things of the spirit because you're not going to receive a gift if you're closed off. Yeah. It's just a real practical thing. So when we tell people to receive prayer, open your hands as a physical posture of being open. Like someone's like, okay, yeah, you can pray for me. And they're like this, you're that's not an open posture, let it open, let alone an open heart. The second is to pray for the Father and ask Jesus and the Spirit for the fullness of the Spirit. Like ask the Holy Spirit to give you gifts to fill you to the fullness. So pray for prophecy, and we'll talk about that next week, uh, to strengthen, encourage, and comfort, but pray for the gift of tongues. And then, like every other gift, you're gonna have to practice. Gifts are not for you to be again, tongues is the only gift you can do alone in your prayer closet, but all the other gifts are to be given away. So if you want to pray, you want to see healing, start praying for the sick. If you want to start seeing uh words of knowledge or prophecy, you're gonna have to open your mouth in an environment that's safe, that's guarded, that empowers the freedom of the Holy Spirit. And you're gonna have to share some encouraging words. You're gonna have to share and take risks. So you're gonna have to practice. So when it comes to the gift of tongues, I love what you said. Like if you feel this prompting, you're gonna have to go with it and invite the spirit. And then, and you can have a critical mind, but just be open to what the Holy Spirit wants to do. Those things I have seen help. So if you're listening to this, go home, go to your quiet space, shut the door because the father sees what's in secret and and ask the Holy Spirit to fill you with the gift of tongues and then watch what God does with it.

SPEAKER_03

Yes, yes, and step out in faith, right? And step out in faith and just try if love it.

SPEAKER_02

And I think it's cool because I I think even just like a smidge of skepticism, yeah, but if it would never stop the Lord from so, even if you're going to it with a heart of like, okay, I am open, but I am a little skeptical, God, yes, that won't stop him. Yes, exactly. Because I think even I was a little skeptical, even while it was happening, I was like, Oh, yeah, your mind's not shut off.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, so you're like, is this gibberish? Is this a time? I don't know. And then and then open your heart to Jesus, let him confirm it for some of us that need confirmation, right? Or practice it, you know, and grow in the power of the Holy Spirit.

SPEAKER_03

And even if you are judging yourself, just don't even like attach to that judgment, be like, Yeah, that's normal that I'm gonna be judging this, and just continue to do it.

SPEAKER_00

And and I will say, with all of the gifts, like they all point to Jesus. Yes, like they all point to communion and intimacy. It is the context of love, it is for the sake of him, his body being matured and grown up into faith, and it should drive us towards greater intimacy with God. That's what it should do. Everything we do should do that. So that's what I got on tongues.

SPEAKER_03

Preach. Yeah, that's what you got on tongues. That was the oh my gosh, what you said about getting out of your analytical brain and then comparing it to EMDR. Yeah, genius.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, we'll see if it holds up. It might just get torn apart in the chat.

SPEAKER_03

So we're oh, they love you. Our people on here are so kind and so sweet. Thanks for watching. We love you guys so much. Thank you, Al, for being with us. Of course. Thanks for having me again. Okay, we love you guys so much. Go read your Bible, go spend time with Jesus. We love you, we love you.