Prophecy is Ordinary People Speaking God's Heart Into the World

Paul never treats prophecy as a platform for gifted individuals. He situates it within love, order, and edification. That framework is what this episode is about — a full biblical theology of the gift of prophecy, what it looks like when it is working well, what goes wrong when it is not, and how every believer can grow in it.

In this episode:
• Prophecy in Acts: how the Spirit directed, mobilized, broke barriers, and prepared the church through this gift
• What prophecy actually is — spirit-empowered speech that reveals God's heart in the present moment
• Personal stories of prophetic words that were impossibly specific and deeply healing
• How to receive revelation, interpret it, and deliver it with humility
• The danger of emotionalism, projection, and spiritual manipulation in prophetic ministry
• The testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy — what that means and why it matters
• How to grow in the prophetic: intimacy, humility, community, and risk

This series is sponsored by Logos Bible Software — and all three of us genuinely use it. Whether you're trying to go deeper in Scripture, prep for teaching, or just slow down and actually understand what you're reading, Logos is the tool. It gives you context, original language insights, commentaries, and more, all in one place. It's not a shortcut — it's a companion. You can try it free for 60 days through our partner link below.

📖 Try Logos free for 60 days: https://logos.com/biblestudypdcst

Hosted by:
• Pastor Darren Rouanzoin — https://www.instagram.com/darrenr
• Angela Halili — https://www.instagram.com/angelahalili
• Ally Yost — https://www.instagram.com/ally_yost

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

I want to see revival in Southern California. I want to see this because we pray that as we drop content into an ocean, I pray, Lord, that this would help pour it out in Jesus' name. All right.

SPEAKER_02 0:14

Please God. Hey everybody.

SPEAKER_00 0:20

I got excited. Hey guys are with us right now.

SPEAKER_03 0:27

Hey guys.

SPEAKER_02 0:28

Hey, I'm Ange.

SPEAKER_03 0:30

I'm Darren.

SPEAKER_02 0:31

I'm Allie. And this is the Bible study podcast. We are so excited to be with you guys today. This is how many weeks? This will be six weeks. 18 weeks of the Bible study podcast.

SPEAKER_03 0:43

That's incredible.

SPEAKER_02 0:43

It was just a little baby, a little idea, and now it's become this beautiful community where we all get to learn about Jesus together. That's so cool.

SPEAKER_03 0:51

That's so cool. Yeah. 18 weeks. Well done, Angela. Well done. Good job, guys.

SPEAKER_00 0:56

Pound it, bud. I've been here for a few, but yeah, pound it. You're here for six. You have had an industrial party. Thanks.

SPEAKER_03 1:04

It's weird being with two professional podcasters, though.

SPEAKER_00 1:06

I don't even know if professional podcasts are.

SPEAKER_03 1:08

I'm like, hey guys, did you go to social podcast? Like, did you go into the office after this?

SPEAKER_02 1:11

And you're like, this is my life. Did you guys go to work last night? I go for supper.

SPEAKER_03 1:19

This is what I do on the side, and then I go do my normal work job.

SPEAKER_02 1:23

Yeah, I get it. We were editing. Yeah, I had other work that I was doing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:28

What's editing?

SPEAKER_02 1:28

Like Instagram.

SPEAKER_00 1:32

Oh, like editing pod stuff. Anyway. Of course. That's not what we're here to talk about. We're here to study the Bible.

SPEAKER_03 1:38

What's your podcast again? Can you say the title?

SPEAKER_00 1:40

Christ with Coffee on Ice.

SPEAKER_03 1:41

Christ with Coffee on Ice. Yeah. Not Coffee with Christ on Ice.

SPEAKER_00 1:45

No, definitely not. Christ with Coffee on Ice. Right. Or C W C O I, which is still a mouthful. So it works. C O I.

SPEAKER_03 1:53

C-O-I. Is that your crew? Your crew's like the C O W C I.

SPEAKER_02 1:57

Okay. Do you guys have like a like an audience name? No. No. No, you need that. What's your audience name? GGB gang.

SPEAKER_03 2:04

GGB gang.

SPEAKER_02 2:05

Why?

SPEAKER_03 2:07

That's so good. That's great.

SPEAKER_02 2:08

GGB gang.

SPEAKER_03 2:09

I I call my gang gardeners.

SPEAKER_02 2:11

No, you need to get it.

SPEAKER_03 2:12

Because garden. Gardeners. That's cute. Gardeners. We're all gardeners at the garden church.

SPEAKER_02 2:16

Right. TM.

SPEAKER_03 2:17

TM. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:18

That is awesome.

SPEAKER_03 2:19

We can do that. Like, do you are you a gardener? Like, that's which is also very biblical. Like it is so. Genesis 1, John. Also, side note, uh, you know, Jesus is raised from the dead, and John can uh Mary sees him for the first time and confuses him as a gardener, right? So again, like the first vocation. Yeah, it's coming back. It's so good. Yeah, well, that's that's it. So that's it.

SPEAKER_00 2:42

Anyways, that's my game.

SPEAKER_03 2:43

Garden is for you, gardeners.

SPEAKER_00 2:45

I like that. I need to start brainstorming what my audience is. Who are they? Yeah, they're the they're my friends.

SPEAKER_02 2:51

Little, we don't need to do it right now. Yeah, we'll do it later. Sorry, guys.

SPEAKER_03 2:55

Yeah, let's brainstorm right now. We don't need to know. Well, maybe we'll prophesy it because we're gonna we're gonna talk about prophecy today.

SPEAKER_02 3:01

We are so excited to talk about the prophetic. Al, I remember one of the first times we met, we were in Nashville, and we were at we were at somebody's house. Huh? What were we doing? We were actually at somebody's house. I think it was after the send. We went to the send and then we were all at somebody's house, and it was like a group of us, and we were praying and talking about Jesus. And then someone was prophesying over you and prophesied over you that you would have like a strong prophetic gifting. Yes. And I remember you went, yes, that's the one I wanted. I remember that. I don't remember that part.

SPEAKER_00 3:35

Thank you, Al. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:37

Yeah, that was awesome. Those those nights were so fun. We were just all practicing prophecy and like exercising the gift. And it's so special. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:46

Great. And you went to the send, which that's that was in Nashville. Yeah. And now it's in Orange County. It's coming in Orange County. Two years ago.

SPEAKER_02 3:52

That was two years ago where we went, when we went.

SPEAKER_03 3:55

July, what what's the date? The 20th, 23rd. Through the 25th. We're going. We're planning. I mean, I think the Bible study podcast, I mean, this isn't confirmed 100%. We've been asked, but we might be at the Send. No, it is. It's confirmed. We got confirmation from No way Joe.

unknown 4:09

Stop.

SPEAKER_03 4:10

No, I talked to Andy. He asked. Andy Bird is there. These are all friends. We're going to do it. It's so exciting. We're going to talk about it. We're going to do like a live Bible study thing at the Send in Orange County at the Anaheim Convention Center.

SPEAKER_02 4:22

That is crazy. Right?

SPEAKER_03 4:23

The 23rd through the 25th of July. You should get tickets. I mean, we're going to this is going to come out in April or May, but 100%. That's going to be amazing. I think it's going to activate a lot of the church in Southern California. I mean, we're seeing so much in SoCal right now in the churches, but this is like one of those events that's going to pour over and we get to be like, why should you read the Bible? Gen Z, why should you read the Bible and go after it?

SPEAKER_02 4:45

Oh, that's so exciting.

SPEAKER_03 4:47

They're not sponsoring this, but we just love the scent. Oh, the scent.

SPEAKER_02 4:50

We love the scent. Yeah, that's where me and Al first became like real, real friends.

SPEAKER_03 4:53

Oh, wow. Maybe we'll have you on with us.

SPEAKER_02 4:56

Yeah, wow.

SPEAKER_03 4:58

That would probably be awesome. We I get to pick, so I'll just decide. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 5:03

Let me know if I make the list. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 5:05

If you're not, if she's not there, I apologize. We probably had a quick word that broke your heart. No. Okay. I want to talk about prophecy. We're in the the Holy Spirit series, which it's not going to end after this. I feel like we'll have to come back. All of these, I'm like, it it kind of spirals into we need to do more. Um, I mean, we gotta have you back. You're like pro, so this is so good. If you want to like sit in that chair and tell great stories and have great questions in theology.

SPEAKER_00 5:29

No, sure.

SPEAKER_03 5:30

Or or corrected theology, either one.

SPEAKER_02 5:33

Yeah, probably that one more so than the other one. But oh, I thought you said us create correct your theology.

SPEAKER_03 5:38

You're gonna correct mine. No, you meant correct ours.

SPEAKER_00 5:41

Oh, because I yeah. Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_03 5:44

So today I want to talk about biblical prophecy. I want to look at what the spiritual gift of prophecy and how the Holy Spirit empowers us as ordinary followers of Jesus with this gift and how Paul argues for us to eagerly desire the gifts, especially to prophesy. I want to look at a biblical framework first from the book of Acts and show how when the church is born, uh prophecy becomes this primary gift to accelerate the things of the church, which which is pretty fascinating. So let's start in Acts 2. This is the birth of the church. Um, I don't want to read that. I just want to highlight some things because of the talks, I have a lot of notes on this. So this could have been like a four-part series. We should, yeah, again, I just have too much content and I don't know how to do it all in a one-hour podcast. But I'm so glad we're here and hopefully you're loving it. So the Holy Spirit falls on the day of Pentecost, and then Peter stands up and he preaches to the crowd, and preaching becomes the primary vehicle for communicating what God is doing. So I just want to say like the Holy Spirit comes down, they speak in tongues, they hear, you know, language, uh, different languages of praises being given to God. But then Peter preaches, he he he is empowered by the Holy Spirit to preach. And I love Peter because just a few days earlier, like 50-something days earlier, he would deny Jesus three times. And then the Holy Spirit fills him, and as soon as he's filled, he's no longer denying Jesus. He will stand before a crowd of people, and for the rest of his life, he will proclaim the resurrected Christ.

SPEAKER_01 7:14

Well, and it was like it was that it was the verse that you even brought up in last week's episode where it said that no one can actually say that Jesus is Lord except through the Holy Spirit.

SPEAKER_03 7:22

Exactly. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 7:23

So that would that was a demonstration of that. He couldn't even do it until the Holy Spirit.

SPEAKER_03 7:26

The Holy Spirit empowered him to do it. Well, you know, and also that is actually interesting because when Paul's referring to that, he's saying the activity of the Holy Spirit, like you shouldn't doubt. If someone says Jesus is Lord, that is the result of the work of the Holy Spirit. That's a work of God.

SPEAKER_00 7:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:40

To say Jesus, so that is God's work. So don't deny someone if they're claiming that.

SPEAKER_02 7:44

Okay. Um can somebody claim that without without yeah, that's for another time. Go ahead. Yeah, can you do that? Great question.

SPEAKER_03 7:53

I love that. Someone's gonna be like, Oh, yes, please answer that. We will. So, first of all, it's it's preaching, but then he also has a prophetic voice. And in the old testament, we've talked about this in the series. The Spirit of God comes upon people, right, in power for specific purposes, specific reasons, specific times, and it's like this special occasion. And in the New Testament, the Holy Spirit is now indwelling in people, he's filling us to the fullness of Christ. And and this gift of or this, the person of Christ, a person of the Holy Spirit fills us, and now we see immediately tongues and then prophecy. So Peter, who's not formally educated, stands up and he addresses the crowd and he begins to interpret Old Testament prophecies. And he's he takes Joel here, and he's like where Joel says, In the last days, God says, I will pour out my spirit on all people. And this is verse 17 of chapter two. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, and your young men will see visions, and old men will dream dreams. Even on my servant, both men and women, I will pour out my spirit in those last days, and they will prophesy. So he he takes this significant event and he interprets the old testament as this is happening now. Wow. That's the fulfillment of the prophecy that Joel had. So from this moment on, the church is defined not by structures, but by its sensitivity to the living word of God. The same spirit who inspired prophets of the Old Testament now rests on ordinary men and women and are empowering them to speak God's heart into the world. That's prophecy. Like prophecy, I want to define is spirit-empowered speech in which God reveals his heart, his mind, or his will through people, uh, through human instruments. And so it may come through scripture or a new revelation through the Holy Spirit, but it's always in harmony with God's word. And its purpose is to strengthen, encourage, correct, direct, and comfort the church to bear witness to Jesus and to align people of God with God's purposes in real time. So prophecy is God speaking through his people by the Holy Spirit in agreement with his word to reveal his will and renew his world. That's what prophecy is. And so is this gift for today? Absolutely. Yeah. Someone's asked, like, okay, can people hear the word of God like the Old Testament prophets? I'm like, yes, I think they can. I think the Holy Spirit empowers us to hear the word. It's not the word of God, it's God's word for the moment. Yes. Let me show you. Okay. Should we do a little survey from the Bible? Okay, Acts chapter 11. I just want to do a quick deep dive through Acts because and then we'll go to Corinthians again. Acts 11, verse 27. Do you want to read that one?

SPEAKER_01 10:38

Oh, you can read that one.

SPEAKER_03 10:39

Acts 11, 27 through 30.

SPEAKER_01 10:41

During this time, some prophets came down from Jerusalem to I don't know how to say it.

SPEAKER_03 10:46

Antioch.

SPEAKER_01 10:46

Antioch. One of them named Agabus stood up and through the Spirit predicted that a severe famine would spread over the entire Roman world. This happened during the reign of Claudius. Yep. The disciples, as each one, as each one was able, decided to provide help for the brothers and sisters living in Judea. This they did, sending their gift to the elders by Barnabas and Saul.

SPEAKER_03 11:16

Okay. I love this story. There's a lot of names here, but let's do a deep dive. So prophecy is used in the book of Acts. What we see is prophecy is used to direct and lead the church. Yeah. So this one's fascinating. So you have Antioch, which becomes like this outpost for the Christian church. It's spreading, it moves from Jerusalem, it goes to Samaria, it's spreading. And then there's like this great spot in Antioch. Eventually, Antioch's where the Spirit says, Set apart for me Barnabas and Saul. And then the Gentile mission kind of takes off. It spreads all the way to the Roman Empire, to Ephesus, which becomes an epicenter of Christianity, all the way to Caesar's household. You get to the end of Acts, and Paul's arrested in Caesar's household. Wow. And the last word of Acts is Paul rented a house for two years and he proclaims uh the kingdom of God and Jesus with all boldness and without hindrance. It's like he's arrested, but the gospel's moving forward. It's amazing. But prophecies how he the Spirit of God will direct the church.

SPEAKER_02 12:14

Wow, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:15

And here I love this story. Wow. I love this story for some reasons. One, it says some prophets come. So Agabus comes here. We'll see Agabus again. But Agabus comes down and has this sense, it says predicts that a famine's coming.

SPEAKER_02 12:28

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 12:28

And so he he has rev revelation that some events are happening in the future. Now, the focus isn't on predicting the future. And I just want to say revelation has to be interpreted. Revelation being like the like God gives you inspiration. Right. Something pops up in your head about something. What's next is how do you interpret this? Yeah. So the interpretation that the church has when the prophet says this is coming is we have to prepare. So revelation brought about interpretation, led to an application of we're going to take an offering. We're going to go around the church, around the world, and prepare an offering for those who are going to suffer because of the famine. We read about this in 1 Corinthians. We read it, Paul is in Galatians, the apostle said, Paul writes, the apostles don't add anything to his message in Galatians, except that he remember the poor, and the poor specifically to those that are facing famine and persecution in Jerusalem. So that's the church, the poor being the church. Paul will go around the Roman Empire, thousands of miles away, and he'll plant these little tiny house churches and ecclesias all over the world, and they will take an offering because of this prophetic word, and they will bring that offering back to Jerusalem. So you have the church in Macedonia, according to 2 Corinthians chapter 8 and 9, that had this extraordinary offering that was God's grace in this poor region of the Roman Empire. Paul cannot believe that these people who are poor experienced this generosity that brought about this extravagant gift. So Paul writes to Corinth as he's coming with some Macedonians to prepare an offering that's going all the way back to Jerusalem. Wow. All because of Agabas.

SPEAKER_00 14:12

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 14:13

Prophecy directs the church. Isn't that crazy? So good. So that's happening in the New Testament. It's and what is it? So it's it's revelation that's interpreted properly, that it's applied by the leadership of the church that leads to compassion and generosity. Oh, that's that sounds like prophecy to me. Yeah. All right, Acts 16. Should we keep going? Is this good? Yeah, I like this. I like Acts. Acts 16, verse 6 through 10. Will you read that one? Six through 10. Yeah, it's okay.

SPEAKER_02 14:41

Six through ten. Paul and his companions traveled throughout the region of Phrygia and Galatia, having been kept by the Holy Spirit from preaching the word in the province of Asia. So they weren't allowed to speak the word in Asia. Yeah. When they came to the border of Mizia, they tried to enter Bithynia, but the spirit of Jesus would not allow them to. So they passed by Mizia and went down to Troas. During the night, Paul, you better stop. During the night, Paul had a vision of a man of Macedonia.

SPEAKER_03 15:14

Macedonia.

SPEAKER_02 15:15

That's what I said. During the night.

SPEAKER_03 15:21

Can we just get it?

SPEAKER_02 15:22

Why is that so embarrassing when you get it? Wait, I you're crushing.

SPEAKER_03 15:27

Everyone reading this is like, yeah, that's how you say it. When I preach, sometimes I literally go to Logos Bible software and push the button that's like speak this word. I do it. Oh, that's all the time. Yeah. How do you say this? Because I know I'm and then I write it down in my notes like how it should be said. Oh my god. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 15:43

All right. During the night, Paul had a vision of a man of Macedonia standing and begging him, come over to Macedonia and help us. After Paul had seen the vision, we got ready at once to leave for Macedonia, concluding that God had called us to preach the gospel to them.

SPEAKER_03 15:58

Okay. I love this story. So now we see like the apparently Paul and his ministry team is being forbidden by the Holy Spirit to enter specific regions. And then he has a dream of a Macedonian going, hi. And he interprets this as a prophetic word to direct him on the apostolic mission he has to go into Macedonia and start a work. And we know that that work takes off in Macedonia. So we know that's what's happening. So the prophetic word keeps the mission tethered to God's will.

SPEAKER_02 16:35

Love that.

SPEAKER_03 16:36

This is so good. Like prophecy, like is like the plumb line. It brings us back to Jesus and it brings us back to Jesus' mission.

SPEAKER_00 16:43

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 16:43

I just want to put a little disclaimer here. I think the Lord is really cleaning house in the prophetic world and the prophetic ministry, and He's bringing things back to where it's supposed to be, not like a sideshow circus. Like we'll we'll talk about words of knowledge in the future. It's not the same thing as prophecy, where you can have words of knowledge that lead to prophecy. Right. But the word of knowledge itself is not often prophecy. It has to, it has to move towards something. And in this case, prophecy comes from a dream that guides, encourages Paul on the mission that Jesus has for him.

SPEAKER_02 17:15

It's so good because I, yeah, obviously there are so many charismatic spaces where you're right, it feels like a sideshow. It's like there's Jesus, there's the word, and then there's this gift that is completely separate, and it's almost like a show. And that's just not how it's supposed to be.

SPEAKER_03 17:30

And can we just say, like in discerning things, uh the there was a there were multiple closed doors to what Paul was trying to do. He's trying, he's got zeal to preach Jesus. But then there are closed doors along the way. Wow. And those closed doors are from the Holy Spirit, not from Satan trying to stop him to spreading the gospel.

SPEAKER_01 17:51

Yeah, but God is saying not yet.

SPEAKER_03 17:52

Yes, it's it's requiring discernment. So prophecy helps us discern which direction when it comes to things that we're doing and things of the kingdom. So closed doors can really also be uh a gift that produces greater fruit in the future. Yes. The last one I'll just say is for now, and there's so many is Acts 21. I'll just read this one. This one's so fascinating because it's it's the direction of Paul. So we get Agabas back. Uh verse nine of Acts 21 says, Okay, so Philip the evangelist, verse eight, he he goes to the house of Philip Evangelist. So this is verse eight, uh, one of the seven that's mentioned in Acts chapter six. He had four unmarried daughters who prophesied. So Philip, the last time we saw him, was baptized in the Ethiopian, and then he gets like zapped out of there. Apparently he's in Caesarea, and now he we see him in Caesarea with four unmarried daughters. And then it says this after we had been there a number of days, a prophet named Agabas, the same one that prophesied the famine, came down from Judea coming over to us. He took Paul's belt, tied his own hands and feet with it, and said, The Holy Spirit says, In this way, the Jewish leaders in Jerusalem will bind the owner of this belt and will hand him over to the Gentiles.

SPEAKER_00 19:10

What?

SPEAKER_01 19:13

Hello? That's my question.

SPEAKER_03 19:15

What's your question? Let's go.

SPEAKER_01 19:16

So he's just prophesying what would happen, what will happen to what are we talking about in that? Paul's gonna be belt. Paul's belt. Paul. He's prophesying what would happen to Paul, which did end up happening. Yes. Wow. So they took him captive.

SPEAKER_03 19:31

Yeah, yeah. So Paul, so we we see Philip's daughters are prophes uh they prophesy, and then the Agabus, the prophet, comes and has this like visual representation, which is which honestly feels very much.

SPEAKER_01 19:42

And then he demonstrates it.

SPEAKER_03 19:44

Yeah, it feels very much like the Old Testament, like how Ezekiel or or or Jeremiah would would partner with God in putting on revealing the word of the Lord for the moment.

SPEAKER_00 19:53

Right.

SPEAKER_03 19:53

And here, prophecy is the spirit forewarning and strengthening the church's resolve to remain faithful and witness.

SPEAKER_02 20:04

Even through what we're doing.

SPEAKER_03 20:05

Even through suffering.

SPEAKER_02 20:06

So prophetic prophecy can be a warning and it can be essentially discouraging. Like it can look like a negative thing at times. I mean, I don't like Paul probably wasn't stoked about that.

SPEAKER_03 20:17

Yeah, you're not stoked about that. But it it prophecy teaches the church to see trials through the lens of divine providence rather than fear. Eugene Peterson says prophecy in Acts often functions as divine guidance that aligns humans human plans with God's sovereign purposes. So both of those occasions are like uh with Agabus is a prophet kind of directing the church. And the application for Paul is to receive that and go, Do I flee from Jerusalem or do I just know that this is what the Lord's saying, that he's gonna use the suffering for his purposes, which he does. Yeah, the gospel gets to Caesar's house, and Paul will write, so and so from Caesar's household says hi in some of his letters, meaning there are Christians in Caesar's household. Like that's insane. How? Because he's arrested.

SPEAKER_00 21:02

Right.

SPEAKER_03 21:02

Like what people don't understand is often God's will could lead you to a cross.

SPEAKER_02 21:07

Yeah, wow.

SPEAKER_03 21:08

Like Jesus was at the center of God's will and it led him to a cross. But in the book of Acts, since since we can do this, I just want to say prophecy in Acts proclaims the risen Jesus Christ in Acts 2, emboldens witness in Acts 4, and confronts corruption in Acts chapter 7, directs mission in Acts 8, 9, 13, and 16, breaks barriers in Acts 10, mobilizes compassion in Acts 11, strengthens leaders in Acts 18, confirms inclusion in Acts 19, and prepares the church for suffering in Acts 21.

SPEAKER_01 21:42

So if you don't believe in prophecy, you just probably shouldn't read Acts.

SPEAKER_03 21:45

Yeah, you shouldn't know.

SPEAKER_01 21:46

You shouldn't read most of the Bible. Yeah, honestly.

SPEAKER_03 21:48

Well, so Luke's vision is unmistakable. The church is prophetic people led by the living voice of God. Right. So we are a prophetic community. Every church should be. Yes. So what is prophecy? Prophecy is not. Primarily predicting the future, uh, but it is about revealing the purpose and and presence of God in the present moment. So that's that's its purpose. It's the continuation of Jesus' ministry. I have a couple of quotes. I love this one. John Stott says this He says, Prophecy is not primarily prediction, but proclamation, a declaration of the divine will under the immediate inspiration of the Holy Spirit. It is God speaking his mind through human lips. I love that. So prophecy is simply hearing God's voice for other people.

SPEAKER_01 22:32

Yeah, because I'd be curious to know what the official definition of prediction is. Because predicting sounds like you're almost kind of guessing. You're like, I'm pretty sure this is the future. When it's like when you're hearing directly from God, it's it's a proclamation. It's like, no, it is written.

SPEAKER_03 22:46

So, yes, this is a great question. Because when you think of prophecy, people think you're gonna tell the future.

SPEAKER_01 22:50

Right.

SPEAKER_03 22:51

You're gonna predict something about the future. There are, there can be prophetic words that like have to do with destiny and things, but most of prophecy in the New Testament is not about that. And what I want to argue is it isn't that primarily, right? It is primarily about speaking the word of God in the moment, right? So often it will align with scripture, it always has to align with scripture, but it will flow out of intimacy with Jesus. It will be motivated by love, and it will be subject to discernment within a community context.

SPEAKER_01 23:20

I will say that most times, I'd say 99% of the time that I've received any type of prophetic word is speaking directly into what I'm walking through in that moment. It's never like in 20 years, Allie, you're gonna blankety blank blank. It's like it literally speaks directly into what I'm going through. And it could be like in such secret where I'm like, Lord, that was only you.

SPEAKER_03 23:42

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 23:42

It's always now, it's always present.

SPEAKER_03 23:44

Yes. Well, and so the litmus test is is it encouraging, strengthening, edifying? I'll get to that. But like those moments where someone prays for you, has an incur has a word, is does it leave you walking away, feeling encouraged, strengthened, and comforted? Feeling seen, loved.

SPEAKER_02 24:00

We need to write those down.

SPEAKER_03 24:01

Well, that's that's in the Bible. So those are the things we we will create a lit.

SPEAKER_01 24:04

He said it was written down before.

SPEAKER_03 24:06

It is written.

SPEAKER_01 24:07

It is written.

SPEAKER_03 24:07

Uh first Corinthians.

SPEAKER_01 24:08

We can write it again. We'll do it.

SPEAKER_03 24:10

But I love that. Like I've had lots of experiences. This is of so in our context, prophecy is completely normal. It's not like this, thus saith the Lord. We never say that. It's a normal experience where there's a prophetic environment where the gifts of the Holy Spirit are present and active. All of them, like really all of them. Like we have tongues, we have healing, we have discerning of uh of evil spirits and distinguishing the gifts. We have wisdom, words of wisdom, words of knowledge, all that is practicing happening all the time, right? It's not from the stage. Yeah. It's it's happening in the environment where people are praying and using and exercising their gifts. I have a crazy story. So when I was new to the things of the spirit, like I had somebody pray for me, I was filled with the Holy Spirit in London. They they prophesied. They had some, they're they had some encouraging words about my future using scripture and and just and then they spoke to the deep insecurity that I was carrying. So there was like deep encouragement. Right. So that was like words of knowledge, words of encouragement. All this stuff came out. It was a prophetic prayer. I then was on this mission as a 22-year-old to like go into environments that practiced these gifts. And I and I went back to Southern California and I would just go anywhere that had life. And I remember like I went to this one place that was led by the South African pastor, and and he brought me up like I was a random kid, brought me up, said the same exact things.

SPEAKER_02 25:29

Crazy.

SPEAKER_03 25:29

Like the same passages of scripture, the same thing. So that happened. And then a pastor, another pastor from the UK came out and did a staff meeting at the church I was at at the time, Rock Harbor, and prayed for me in the corner, grab, puts his arm around me, says the same exact things. And it was like, okay, Lord, I get it. Yeah. And then there I went to this wildly charismatic, like it was like a Tuesday night Bible study, not a Bible study. It was like a three-hour prayer service, worship service. And then like a two and a half hour guy, this 78-year-old guy in a suit was like walking around praying. And I was so, yeah, like a massive suit. I was so turned off. Like I had come from like, you know, Bible believing, like this guy is at what I was warned against.

SPEAKER_02 26:13

Right. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 26:15

So I set up all these like fleeces. And it was, I write them in my journal. Like I'm with a friend, and I was with my wife, and I was like, okay, Lord, if this is real, I wrote down, pray for my friend here who's going through this hard time. Like, let him be ministered too. I wrote down this specific thing. Pray for my wife who's going through this hard time. This is what she needs. And Lord, let this guy know that I'm called to do this and that have him teach me how to do this. And that I'm called to plan a church in Long Beach. Like all that. I put all of it out. So while I'm in this meeting, right? There's people on the floor, people are worshiping and crying. It was like chaos, in my opinion. I'm like, this is weird. Comes over to my friend and does exactly what I pray for. I'm like, oh, my friend's on the floor, like looking up into heaven, and he got his mail read and he is weeping because he's got these father abandonment issues. His father left him and he's experienced the presence of God.

SPEAKER_00 27:03

Wow. Wow.

SPEAKER_03 27:04

Then he grabs my wife and then he pulls her up on stage and has this woman sing over her and she just melts. My wife just melts. And I'm like, okay, Lord, I believe. I believe. I don't need anything else. And then he comes over and sits next to me and shuts the microphone off. And he says, I know you're testing God.

SPEAKER_02 27:23

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_03 27:25

And he goes, You're called the planet church in Long Beach. He goes, Now let me show you how to do this. And for the rest of the night, he has me stand with him, giving words of knowledge and prophecy for the very first time in my entire life as he coaches me through it.

SPEAKER_02 27:40

Do you think that this is just normal life?

SPEAKER_03 27:43

I think I'm so stubborn that the Lord God loves to humble you in your stubbornness just like he's like, some people will just do it. I was like, all right, I'm, you know, and he shakes me. And I like, and here's the thing: there was a guy from Rock Harbor at this crazy wild thing. I didn't want anyone to know that I was there. I was on staff at Rock Harbor, and and I'm at this thing, and and this guy and I had conflict. I was this new hire, and he he was a volunteer, and he has me pray for this guy. And I kid you not, I have a prophetic, a word of knowledge and a prophetic word, and he coaches me into do it. And it was the most incredible thing. Wow. But all to say, like I've had lots of now journey, I've taken this long journey through the scriptures. I could talk through more, like what this is for. But the the prophetic is such a gift for the church. It is. It's such a gift because it's a gift the Holy Spirit gives us for building each other up. Think about what we do in our culture right now.

SPEAKER_02 28:38

Right.

SPEAKER_03 28:38

What do we do? Like, what are all the all all the like online warriors or the thumb warriors? Like, we tear everyone down.

SPEAKER_02 28:45

It's so sad.

SPEAKER_03 28:46

Like you don't make somebody happy and they're gonna blast you on your platforms because Angela, it wasn't, you know, at the event or you, I don't know what your people are like, but like maybe, maybe people in general in the world just are ready to tear each other down. And prophecies, this thing that God says, use this as a gift from the spirit to build each other up.

SPEAKER_02 29:05

Yeah, yeah. It's beautiful. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 29:08

Have you had an encouraging word?

SPEAKER_02 29:09

Like, I've had so many encouraging words. Like, what's one what's one of the prophetic words that you receive that just like change your life for I mean the first thing that comes to my mind, and I've told this story before on like my Meanari's podcast, but Socrates, the first time I ever met him, I walked into his studio and I was like literally, I was still drinking at that time. So I was so bound. I was not even probably, I wasn't even a believer at that time. And I was like so oppressed, like unwell, so oppressed. And I walk in and he stands up and he looks at me and he just like spoke into my destiny. And he said, You are a mighty woman of God, and you're gonna tell millions of people about Jesus. You're gonna speak on stages, um, and you're gonna write books. Wow. He brought the first time I ever met him, and then later on, he told me when I when we started Girls Gone Bible, he told me that we were going to uh speak to presidents, wow, and kings and queens and a bunch of other things, and like it's happened, and it happened. Like he prophesied over us that we would speak to presidents. Wow. So isn't that wild?

SPEAKER_03 30:16

That is, yeah, that is wild, but that's what prophecy is. Yeah, that's exactly it. Where and when in that time, okay. So you received that. You weren't doing Girls Gone Bible at that time?

SPEAKER_02 30:25

The first one, no, I wasn't doing way before I was 23.

SPEAKER_03 30:28

What was that like?

SPEAKER_02 30:30

I I remember, well, I mean, and it's layered for me. I remember part of me was like, this guy's got the wrong person. Like, he's because then I wasn't even familiar with prophecy, so I was just like, what is this? Yeah, you know, like he doesn't know me, and that's not true about me. I'll never speak about Jesus. Like it was so far from who I was that it wasn't even plausible. And then at the same time, though, I felt this, it was the first time in my life that I felt encouragement from like a father figure. Wow, yeah. And so it was the first time that somebody looked at me the way that Jesus looks at me, not as I was in that moment, but who I would become when I finally gave my life to Jesus. So that's what that prophetic word gave me. It gave me a glimpse into my future in Jesus.

SPEAKER_03 31:13

We say in our context with our staff that prophecy is speaking the future present.

SPEAKER_02 31:17

Right.

SPEAKER_03 31:17

Not calling, it's but treating people future present.

SPEAKER_02 31:20

Not naming and claiming.

SPEAKER_03 31:21

No, no, it's not naming and claiming. That's a different theology. That that's a theology that comes from word of faith journey, which we don't have to get into. But but this is like biblical prophecy is is what happened. There's like a sense of of calling now that you're aware of that maybe was inside of you. Like you had this glimpse of it, maybe you didn't fully know, but it like it puts something inside of you that strengthened, encouraged, like edified your person, your inner person for like what the decisions you would make into the future. Like it does something to you.

SPEAKER_02 31:52

Totally. And I think it's important to note that like in that moment, I didn't know what happened and nothing happened in that moment. But I do believe that it's like a seed planted that then lives inside of you that eventually grows. So I just don't think that you need to look at giving someone a word and then nothing coming from it right away or not getting like an emotional reaction as it failing. Totally, you know?

SPEAKER_03 32:12

Well, I mean, so I used to study acting. I was, I wanted to be a uh I was like a theater major in college. I studied acting. I loved acting. Like I studied like method acting as an eighth grader. Like I was reading Russian Stanislavsky's book.

SPEAKER_02 32:25

You would in eighth grade.

SPEAKER_03 32:26

I would, yeah. That's how I was. But I remember like my senior year. I was like in, you know, improv traveling team, like in every every thing I was in. My drama teacher, who I knew for five years, she says to me one day, as I'm like preparing to audition for Juilliard, right? So I auditioned for Juilliard and in San Francisco, um, because they did it in Chicago and New York auditions. And I was like getting ready to leave. And she's like, you know, I think one day you're gonna be a pastor. And I'm like, ouch. I was like, ouch. I was like, why do you? I'm like, I'm gonna be an actor. And she's like, I'm like, why do you think that? She's like, you just care so much.

SPEAKER_02 33:02

This was your acting teacher.

SPEAKER_03 33:04

My acting teacher. She a Christian? Yeah, she was she's Catholic, yeah. And she she was Christian. And she literally, I'm like, that was a prophetic word. I she didn't even know. I didn't know. I'm like, you you claim my destiny. She just had a feeling. She had a feeling, like you.

SPEAKER_02 33:17

I feel like she saw. Yeah. She saw. Yeah, that's crazy.

SPEAKER_03 33:20

She's amazing. Yeah. Her name was Grace Stanton. Her name is Grace Stanton. Okay, here let me talk about this. Paul never treats prophecy as a platform for gifted individuals. Can we just say that? One more time. Yeah, Paul never treats prophecy as a platform for gifted individuals. He situates prophecy within a framework that's shaped by three central themes: love, order, and edification. So prophecy in the local church, when it's practiced well, has to be framed by love, edification, and order, all flowing from the life of the spirit within the body of Christ. One thing that I'm learning is like prophecy, uh, I my friend and I came up with this like, let's make prophecy local again. Like, there's kind of like a world where there's a lot of traveling prophets. I actually have a friend who's a traveling prophet, he's amazing. His name's Julian. Um, I love him. Um, and that's fine. But he he lives with local relationships. So he he's embedded into communities that he has deep relationships with. And I see that and I honor that. We've been in friends for a long time.

SPEAKER_02 34:26

He loves Jesus so much, loves Jesus. Who loves Jesus more than the gift. Yeah, 100%.

SPEAKER_03 34:31

And and he functions with like character and integrity and he's held to accountability. Yeah. But I think this is so important. Like there is the framework of First Corinthians is local church context that the prophetic ministry flourishes when it's in a relational dynamic of a local church. Yeah. So this comes out of, I just want to kind of do this maybe a little because I I want to talk about practically how do we do it, but I just want to frame it. So, in we already talked about this in the last episode, the foundation of prophecy is founded in the context of love. Paul says love is the context, the motive, and the measure of every gift. Love is the context, the motive, the measure of every spiritual gift. That's in 1 Corinthians chapter 13. So prophecy that reflects Christ's love will reveal God's kindness. It will re it will restore dignity and it will protect and redeem people because love always trusts, hopes, protects, and perseveres. Like, so when you think about environments where you're receiving prayer, are you experiencing the love of God from that person? That's kind of the litmus test for us.

SPEAKER_00 35:33

Yeah. Wow.

SPEAKER_03 35:34

You've experienced this at our church.

SPEAKER_00 35:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 35:38

People coming up. I've seen you come forward and get prayer and God's ministering to you.

SPEAKER_01 35:42

Yeah. Yeah, there was actually something that happened a couple weeks ago where, again, kind of going off of what I was saying, where you know, every time, pretty almost every time I've received a prophetic word, it's it's like speaking directly into my situation. And um, I it's funny because I feel like I'll be entering like a time of my life with the Lord, and I don't even really know what it is, but I can just sense that something's shifting, something's changing. He like is pushing me to go further. He's like, okay, next level, let's keep going out. I know you don't want to go this way, but like we got to go that way. And so I think in that moment I was just, I was feeling really hesitant. We're like, God, I don't want to keep going. I really just want to stay right here. We've come so far, you know, we've done a lot of work. Why can't we just hang out? And so um, this girl who didn't know anything about my situation, and it was in it, it the funniest thing about prophecy too, which I think that this should be comforting to a lot of us, because I think a lot of times we can put pressure on ourselves to like have the most like mystical, amazing, perfect verbiage when it really can be as simple as like, hey, the Lord knows that you're scared, but like he's also right in it with you. And just her even just simply saying the word scared, like I know you're afraid.

SPEAKER_03 36:54

Yeah. I was like, She named what you were walking in.

SPEAKER_01 36:57

With the simplest language, but it was exactly what I needed to hear.

SPEAKER_03 37:00

And what did you feel in that moment?

SPEAKER_01 37:02

I felt so seen by God.

SPEAKER_03 37:03

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 37:04

I just I was like, okay, you're you are with me, like you're here in it.

SPEAKER_03 37:07

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 37:08

And you know my thoughts.

SPEAKER_03 37:09

Absolutely. So that's I mean, I think for for the gifts of the spirit, this is exactly what Paul's getting at. Like when someone prophesies to like, God's here. Yes. Like God is in this place. Like when you come forward for prayer, like this is the context for our church, is like we have, you know, worship, communion, announcements, dismiss the kids, you know, preaching of the word. And then we have ministry time, which is we create space where people can come forward. There could be a direct call or you just want to come forward and receive prayer from a prayer team that's been trained in the model that we're talking about and like being empowered by the Holy Spirit. Okay, you come forward. You could have a complete stranger say a specific thing that you're carrying in that moment. And all of a sudden you're like, wow, God, you're so close in here. And that, what does that do? It strengthens you, it encourages you, it comforts you, it lifts, it builds you up, right?

SPEAKER_01 37:57

Yeah, it makes you feel like you're not alone in it.

SPEAKER_03 37:58

It makes you feel like you're not alone. Yeah. That's what prophecy does, right? When it's done well.

SPEAKER_01 38:03

There is another really cool prophetic thing. I just have to share this one, right? Because it's actually, it hasn't come to fruition, but with how specific the prophetic word was that I got, I'm like, I know that I know that I know it has to happen. But a couple of years ago, a girl, I was in an environment of, I don't know, we were traveling and we were in a worship space, and there's this girl, complete stranger, never met her before. She doesn't know me. I don't know her. And she comes up to me. And actually, she this was the first time I had actually ever seen tongues used in this way, but she would speak in tongues as if she was like trying it, and then also interpreting it and then saying what it was. And so she would like say a few words, and then she would like go in tongues, and then she'd come back with more. And she named out a friend of mine who's in my life who is not saved to this day yet, but her name is very specific. It's not like a generic name. It was like, how did you know her name? Wow. And she was like, Oh, um, this friend. She's like, I think her name is and says her name and says, the Lord is going to prepare a table in front of her enemies for her. You don't have to worry. I had been, I had, and I still do, but I was praying for her so much at that time to just be, I was like, Lord, please bring her home. And I was like, I've never experienced anything like that. Like, so specific of being like, you don't have to worry, like it's done.

SPEAKER_03 39:22

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 39:22

Still hasn't happened, but I'm like, Lord, it's done.

SPEAKER_03 39:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:25

Like it's in stone, he promised me that. So that was a wild experience.

SPEAKER_03 39:30

That that those stories are wild. And now you can, I mean, for me, oftentimes, if there's a prophetic word about the future or about like some promise, I say you you can't make it happen, but you can partner in it. Yeah. Right. This is the seed. It's like the seed was handed to you. Okay, so now I'm just interceding. Yes. And that's what I think most revelation that you get, most like words that you receive from the Lord are for intercession. They're for prayer. Like that's the first place, right? So if you get words for people or someone that you're in your life, I think that's how it's used. It's used first for prayer. Totally.

SPEAKER_01 40:05

So good.

SPEAKER_03 40:05

But that's so encouraging.

SPEAKER_01 40:06

But also, again, feeling so seen by God that he was like, No, I've heard your prayers that you're praying for her. Don't stop. It will happen. Wow. So good.

SPEAKER_03 40:13

Yeah. Like because he's connected with your heart and showing you how close he is. I love it.

SPEAKER_02 40:16

Are we onto words of knowledge yet? Because I have the funniest story from Tor. He says no. Well, go ahead.

SPEAKER_03 40:21

Yeah, tell me a word of knowledge.

SPEAKER_02 40:23

So it's a beautiful story. So one time Ari and I are on tour. I forget what city we're in. And I hope this woman watches it because I just love her and I love this moment so much. We're doing ministry time at the end, and I'm praying over this woman and words of knowledge, and you can, you know, explain this to us. Sometimes you can hear something and sometimes you can see images. And I'm not really one, I'm not really a seer like that. I don't really see images in my head or get dreams. But in this moment, I'm praying for this woman and she comes up to me. And usually when people come up to us, they're just highly emotional. They're just really like excited to get the prayer. This woman was so calm. She walks up and she's like, Hey, I'm about to have a baby. Um, I'm gonna be a stay-at-home mom. Can you just pray for me? And I was like, Absolutely. So there was nothing that I knew about her. She didn't really say like there was something awful happening in her life. And so I start praying for her, just like really generic, like, Jesus, bless her, fill it with your presence. And then all of a sudden, I saw her sitting at a table doing arts and crafts. So random. And then I just I like back up because I was kind of in her ear, and I go, This is so random. But I see you sitting at the table doing arts and crafts. She pulls back and starts wailing, bawling her eyes out. And I go, what happened? Because I had to like, I was like, oh my gosh, this is so cool. And um, it was such a sweet moment. And she didn't even explain to me what happened or like what that meant to her. She just kept crying and I just started praying over her. And so I don't know to this day what that meant to her, but all I know is that she felt so seen by God. You know, and all it was was you going, You're doing arts and crafts. Yeah, like what does that mean? It's and but it meant everything to her. It meant everything to her. So I saw something, the Lord showed me something that only he and her had probably seen. That's so sweet. How cool.

SPEAKER_03 42:15

I I love it. I think this is the gift of learning how to hear God's voice on behalf of others. Like I think God is always speaking. I really that I think we can we can learn to hear his voice. Like um, like imagine if like I'm married, if I just didn't ever talk to my wife. Totally. That wouldn't be a loving relationship. God wants a loving relationship. And when you live in community, like the compassion that you have for your brothers and sisters in the community is to learn to pray in a way that's effective, that changes people's lives. That's right. Like, I I can't tell you. I mean, those stories are happening dozens of times in the week at our church. Totally. Through ordinary, this is this is what we should be. I I think this is what is available for everyone in the faith. Is like you can be hearing God's voice on behalf of others. That's God's desire, and prophecy is a gift for everyone to grow in. I love what Paul says, and this is that passage, 1 Corinthians 14, 3. The one who prophesies speaks to people for their strengthening, encouraging, and comfort. So prophecy is very pastoral in that way. It's not theoretical, it's the spirit's way. It's it's used by the spirit to heal hearts, confirm identity, draw people close to Jesus so that the house of God is built, like person by person, heart by heart. And and that, and again, in scripture, it's used for the building up of the local church. It's building up of his body. And I have so many stories like like Julian. We're talking about Julian and Katia. When I first met them, um, I didn't know who they were. I was standing behind them in a worship gathering in Northern Ireland. This is crazy and I saw Katya wearing colonial clothes from like the revolution in the, you know, in the United States. And I heard the word Paul Revere, and I saw Katy on a horse saying revival's coming, revival's coming. And it was the weirdest thing.

SPEAKER_01 44:05

So she was wearing normal clothes. Yeah, she was wearing normal clothes. In my mind. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 44:09

So worship stops and I can't get out of my head. And I'm like, this is so weird. I'm Darren. I'm hi. You know, I just saw you wearing colonial clothes. She doesn't even know what that is at that time. Like, but I see you as Paul Revere, like going up the coast of the East Coast saying revival's coming. Well, I, you know, I said hi, that's and that was my intro. And then they're like, we've been discerning a call to plant a church in Boston. Like years later, they end up leaving and starting a church in Boston. I got to be there when they're like launching. And they live like a couple blocks away from a statue dedicated to Paul Revere. Like, we literally have a picture outside of the statue in Boston outside.

SPEAKER_00 44:45

It's so cool. But like, wow.

SPEAKER_03 44:47

Did I have any clue?

SPEAKER_01 44:49

No, but at this point also, that's has to feel so silly to see.

SPEAKER_03 44:53

It's the most silly.

SPEAKER_02 44:54

You're like, God, this feels circusy. What is it? And I can't imagine how many things we've heard or seen that were just like thrown away weird because we thought it was silly or weird. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 45:03

Now, again, the context of this, how it was given, it was done in love. It was done with the boundaries of order. Like there was order. This wasn't crazy, passionate. It was like it was done in a gentle way for the purpose of encouraging them. I was encouraging them while I was praying. I was praying for them after their afterwards. And when they said their backstory, that's what I'm like, well, let me contend now. And and that built them up. That was one of the one of the many words they had as they were collectively together discerning what to do to move their fun family across, you know, from South Africa to the United States. Like that's what prophecy does. Now, that was like a word of knowledge, which is what you're getting at. That was a word of knowledge that led to prophecy. And it's hard to like navigate that. But in general, like there, God will give you a word of knowledge, like a random idea about something that you don't fully know what it is. And then you have to discern it. Like, Lord, what is this? What's the message associated with this? For example, in our context, my friend Joel's here in the recording. Joel will have like a feeling in his shoulder, and he'll text me in this, you know, while I'm preaching, hey, I think God wants to heal people. I have this pain in my shoulder. Let's pray for shoulders and then I'll list out things. And I can't tell you how at how many times he's done this, where those there's specific people, like there might be a lot of shoulder pain. Yeah, okay, there's like 10 people that have shoulder pain. But then there's this one that comes forward, and then there's a prophetic word for the grieving father who lost a daughter. That happened recently, where it's more than the shoulder. That was the word of knowledge that got to the prophetic word that strength and encouraged someone. This happened, I don't know, three weeks ago, four weeks ago. Yeah, four weeks ago.

SPEAKER_00 46:39

That's beautiful.

SPEAKER_03 46:40

So that I mean, but here's the thing is beautiful. That is this is ordinary. This is this should be ordinary.

SPEAKER_02 46:45

Should be ordinary. Wow.

SPEAKER_03 46:47

So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:48

Can maybe what can you we learn how to grow in the prophetic?

SPEAKER_03 46:52

Yeah, how do you grow in the prophetic? Okay, so first of all, practice. How to grow. Um, okay, keys to growing. I have a bunch of stuff. Um, first of all, maybe I'll do how to prophesy and then I'll do it quickly. Okay, how to prophesy. First of all, step one is you gotta you gotta receive revelation. So you gotta receive something. So pay attention to the way God speaks to you. God speaks to me in a sense, He might give you a word, He might give you a picture, He might give you something that comes to mind, He might give you a physical sensation. And um, when you so receive the word, it could be a dream. Then you got to interpret what you receive, right? So you got to begin to ask, what does this mean, God? And then on that journey, does it align with scripture? I have like this whole filter, I'm not gonna give you all. Uh, you got to discern it with humility. Um, does it align with scripture? Does it align with God's character? Does this bring life, peace, or is it bringing fear and death? If it's bringing fear and death, it's probably not a word from the Lord. Right. Is it for me? Is it for a person? Is it is it the right time to share? So you need to ask that. Then you got to deliver the word. So it's, you know, in you got to receive it, you got to interpret it, and then you got to deliver it. Never say, this is a word from God. Yeah. Thus saith the Lord. You could say, I get a sense. I'm sensing. I'm sensing something. It might be from the Lord. I always say, Does this resonate with you? I don't want to share a word and then somebody be like, Oh my gosh, the pastor said this. It has to be true. And it's not true. Like, that's the worst thing. Right. So that happens all the time. We just have to be like gentle and be like, does this resonate? Prophecy, prophecy should feel like love, right? It should be it feel like love, not pressure. Yeah. God's word brings peace, not performance. God's word brings clarity, not confusion. So after you share something with somebody, you don't control the outcomes. You don't try to manipulate. Don't you trust the Lord to bring clarity. And the fruit of prophecy will bring strengthen people's faith. It will encourage them. It will comfort the broken. It will confirm identity. Prophecy will commission future leaders, it will correct and bring redirection. It creates generosity. It sustains courage. It prepares us for suffering. We know that in scripture. So, how do you grow in prophecy? First of all, you gotta grow in prophecy by having intimacy with God. Yeah. So you're not gonna learn to be good at this gift without being intimate with God. So you gotta immerse yourself in the presence of Jesus. So study the scriptures. You gotta like if you wanna, people are like, oh, I haven't heard God's word. Have you read scripture lately? This is always speaking. So if you want to grow in prophecy, study the word of God. Become somebody who memorizes scripture, meditates on scripture, reads lots and lots and lots of scripture. Number two, if you want to grow in prophecy, you have to stay humble.

SPEAKER_02 49:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 49:42

So like I think I see it. I see what happens. Young leaders all of a sudden start growing in the gifts and they get prideful. It's not about you, it's not about your ability to hear God's voice. The goal is always to give something away. So it's about generosity. It's not about impressing people, it's about being humble.

SPEAKER_02 49:59

Right, Darren.

SPEAKER_03 50:00

The other thing is so you got to stay in relationship with God, grow in intimacy, practice listening, study scripture, stay humble, is you submit to community. Prophecy has some rules. If you go to 1 Corinthians, you can see it. Prophets are going to be held accountable by prophets. I just want to say that has to happen. It's not happening globally, it's not happening in the world. In local contexts, it absolutely happens. We'll get, we'll do leadership communities in our church and we'll have prophetic words. We will write down every prophetic word and then our elders will weigh them. What's the Lord saying? But we got to stay in community. So prophecy will mature through discernment, through humility, but being held held accountable in a culture.

SPEAKER_02 50:39

So that's good.

SPEAKER_03 50:40

I will correct people. Like we do this in our prayer training. We're like, hey, we don't say, thus saith the Lord. We don't, we don't, we don't prophesy future things or dates or mates with people. So we'll constantly redirect and make sure that people are doing it in a humble way in our context. Also, how do you go in prophecy? You have to learn to risk, you have to grow in the things. So, like in the beginning, it's going to be hard to share words with people that you're praying for. But like you did on stage, like, I have this thing, I don't know what it is. You took a risk in sharing it and it connected deeply, right? So good. It connected deeply. So we have to be able to step out in a context that's safe to practice the prophetic gifts. And one of the other things that I would say that has helped me is follow the peace. When it comes to understanding the spirit's voice, the spirit will lead you to peace, not to fear, not to anxiety, not to manipulation, not to agitation. You might feel an unease until you've learned what it is, but you have to feel peace. Like right now, we're discerning our church is exploding. We're discerning when do we start a second service at in Costa Mesa? We have four services now. We're like, let's start a fifth. And everything out there is like we absolutely should start it. We're we're like a hundred plus people over capacity. We have no room. The AC can't keep up. There's a thousand reasons why.

SPEAKER_00 51:58

Right.

SPEAKER_03 51:58

As we're discerning this, we're talking, we're like prophetically leaning in to the words, but but we're following the peace. Like the the wisdom you know, church leadership will give you is start a second service when the church is 75% full. And right now we're like, it doesn't feel we don't have peace. So we're waiting for the peace. Oh, good.

SPEAKER_02 52:17

That's God. You have to follow the peace. That's so special. Yeah, so being communities, everything.

SPEAKER_03 52:22

Those are all ways that you can grow. So for me, one key thing is to be in an environment. Find like it could be a small group, find a small group that wants to grow and study the word of God, study scriptures about prophecy, and then ask the Lord to speak and then start praying for each other. That's what that's what happens.

SPEAKER_02 52:40

So good.

SPEAKER_03 52:42

Boom. We did it.

SPEAKER_02 52:44

That is iconic. You just taught people how to grow in the prophetic.

SPEAKER_03 52:48

There's a lot there. That is so good.

SPEAKER_02 52:50

Can you just talk really quickly about again? I mentioned this last time or a couple episodes ago, but I don't think that we actually got into it. Something I see often is emotionalism in prophecy or prophesying from your own experience and projecting it onto other people. Yes, so good.

SPEAKER_03 53:10

Yeah, I mean, this is why churches don't operate in the prophetic because it's been misused, it's not been taught well, there's not accountability. They're not looking at scripture, going, okay, this is for today. How do we do it? How do we create an environment that's held accountable, that has order, that's edifying, that's kind and generous and in the context of love. Unintentionally, I would say I want to assume the best. Leaders will project their own emotions or experiences onto other people and call it prophecy. And that's a danger. Like that causes damage. Like if you've ever received a prophetic word, you should, you should ask the Lord, is this for me?

SPEAKER_01 53:45

Totally.

SPEAKER_03 53:46

Like I have had people in our church context that were visiting that come up and try to prophesy over me. And it is not a prophetic word. It is definitely them speaking directions to me in the form of prophecy. Yeah. And I don't get mad. I don't correct them and rebuke them. I just dismiss it.

SPEAKER_01 54:02

Do you think people even realize that they could be projecting?

SPEAKER_03 54:05

Uh I no, I don't think so.

SPEAKER_01 54:06

I think sometimes people are like, oh, I didn't even know. People probably don't know. They probably don't know.

SPEAKER_03 54:12

I think there's just there's this is where it gets dangerous. Like you can just go out there and start doing saying whatever you want and using this spiritual gift. And then the worst thing that can happen is you can be put into a category of prophet and not hear God's voice and use that platform to do harm. But everyone, everyone does this in any any place of any position of power. You can use it to harm, you can use it to for your own good. And Jesus doesn't want that. He wants us to not lord it over people, he wants to humbly serve. Yeah. Um, but yeah, I would say you when you're starting, you don't know if it's from the Lord. You don't know if it's like your will being pressed on someone. So make sure you're pro you're in a community that holds you accountable, that you're being humble about it.

SPEAKER_01 54:54

Well, yeah, and the approach of humility too is so important. And just awareness.

SPEAKER_03 54:58

Awareness. Like when I when I pray, I'm not yelling, shouting, directing someone's future. Oh, we're gonna, you're gonna do it's it's very gentle. Yeah, it's generous, it's slow, it's it's it God it's like I have this sense that this, I could be wrong. What do you think? And if they're like, I agree, I'm like, great, now I'm gonna pray specifically about that thing.

SPEAKER_02 55:20

Okay, that's good. And then one more thing that I feel like is important to mention there's oftentimes spiritual manipulation that can come through prophecy. If you're prophesying over somebody and there's information that you know about them that they don't know that you know, and you bring up, I see that quite often. I've seen it so much. And so kind of like tap pulling on emotion, yeah, it just gets really muddy in that you know what I mean. Yeah, I mean knowing someone's deepest desires and then kind of speaking into that.

SPEAKER_03 55:52

I think like that should grieve us. Like as a pastor who wants to see the spiritual gifts flourish in the church, like that right there sets us back years. Like, what's happening is like, okay, let's throw out prophecy because all these prophetic people went online and got people's data. That too and or like knew you were in the crowd and prophesied something because you were there and they know something about you. I don't know if that's ever happened, but it's like that is needs to be called out as sinful, as corrupt, as false prophecy. It is, it needs to be held accountable and it needs to be repented of. And we just got to do better. Look, I'm not perfect as a leader. I I don't, we're not a perfect church. We make mistakes. We haven't made that mistake, and and we're very careful in the context that we have because we're not doing that from stage. This is this is very much a relational dynamic thing. And so I just I think if that's going on, yeah, that that's where Jesus like flips the table. Yeah. Like, like if you're a shepherd, if you're a leader, you're modeling, modeling the life of Jesus and how you approach people. Like, what do you mean you're gonna use the gift of prophecy meant to build Jesus' body for personal gain or motivation? That's not how it works.

unknown 57:08

Totally.

SPEAKER_03 57:09

And what we need in the church is greater discernment because the truth is, like, we're buying those books, we're watching those YouTubes, we're following those people that don't have character, and that has to stop. Like, we need to, we need to, we need to expect First Timothy chapter three in our leadership, a level of holiness and character that is is framed for the church. Yes, that is expected of elders and deacons. We should have that. We should, we should follow that, and we should we should strive for that as leaders.

SPEAKER_02 57:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 57:35

So I'm preaching again, but I think this is we need purity back in prophecy. Like we need prophecy that's led from a pure heart, that's leading the church into its future through through the way that Jesus would have it, not building a sideshow of it, yeah, but uh prophecy pointing to the resurrected Christ. It says um, the spirit of prophecy is the testimony of Jesus. The testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. That means that prophecy, the testimony of your life always points to Christ. And that's what we need to get back to.

SPEAKER_02 58:05

That's good.

SPEAKER_03 58:06

Go.

SPEAKER_02 58:06

That's good. Drop that mic.

SPEAKER_03 58:08

All right, guys.

SPEAKER_00 58:09

So good, guys.

SPEAKER_03 58:10

That is so soon. Thank you for being here. Thank you. You're awesome.

SPEAKER_02 58:14

Thank you. We love you. This is great. We love you out. Guys, we love you so much. Thanks for being with us. We can't wait to see you next week. We love you. Jesus loves you more.

SPEAKER_00 58:23

Bye.

SPEAKER_03 58:24

I'll see you guys.