How to pray like Daniel to outlast any crisis.

Daniel prayed three times a day at 85. The habits formed in him as a 15-year-old under Josiah's reformation sustained him through three kings of Babylon and all the way to the lions' den. This episode asks whether what we resolve as young people will last a lifetime — and makes the case that prayer is the counter-formational practice that makes it possible, especially now when AI, algorithms, and the attention economy are competing for the same attention we were made to give to God.

In this episode:

• Daniel 6 and what a lifetime of faithful prayer produces
• Only 10% of American Christians are resilient disciples — and the markers are basic
• The attention economy is designed for addiction and the church needs to say so
• AI is being designed for attachment and it will replace prayer if we let it
• Five markers of resilient discipleship — and how to build them in the next generation
• What prayer actually looks like — three honest testimonies from the hosts

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This series is brought to you with the support of Logos Bible Software — the tool all three of us use when studying Scripture. Whether you want to go deeper in a passage, explore word studies, or dive into commentaries, Logos puts everything in one place. You can try it free for 60 days through our partner link below.

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Hosted by:

• Pastor Darren Rouanzoin — https://www.instagram.com/darrenr
• Angela Halili — https://www.instagram.com/angelahalili
• Slav Romanov — https://www.instagram.com/slavromanov
  
  

#BibleStudy #Daniel #Prayer #ChristianPodcast #Faith #Jesus #BibleStudyPodcast

Transcript

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We didn't bring it back for me. We lost clothes like that in Alexandra. Yeah, it was like for you. That's why you were like, hey, we gotta take care of this. Mom, we're back. Are we good? The music. Welcome back, y'all. Hey guys, welcome back to the Bible study podcast. I'm Anj. I'm Darren. I'm Slav. And we are so happy to be here. Shoot, I don't have a I don't have an opening for this. You gotta have a question. What's your question? My question. Oh, I do have a question. Alright, let's go. And I'm being genuine. Okay. Do you think Jesus likes that I include, like that I involve him in every single part of my day? Like and every minor inconvenience, like is his problem in my mind. It's our problem. Do you think he's like, Ange, people are dying? Like you got bigger fish. Well, okay, so the the question you're asking is like your petty, mundane involvement. I I never said petty, but like, are you minimizing the importance of communing with God when there's crisis and real big issues over the world? Right. Yeah. I what do you think? I think no. I think he loves it. Yeah. Why? Because he loves me. Yeah. And he has all the capacity for all of us. Right. Ex yeah, I would agree. Okay. Amen. Thank you. Yeah, I actually think that reflects, you know, your view of God. And your view of God shapes the way you interact in the world. True. So if you think he's uninterested in the ordinary silly things, then that will shape the way you interact with him in your everyday, ordinary life. So um I would say, of course, he's he he's longing to be with you. Yeah. Thank you. That's my perspective. That's really true. That's right. I don't I don't involve him that much. So you don't you don't commune with like not like that, not at that level. Why you gotta learn? That says something about you right there. What is it? The algorithms and the things I've been feeding on. 100%. That's right. Or maybe your view of God not being interested. Or my view of God not being interested in me. Yeah. Maybe that's like you gotta be serious with him. Slav, do you want to talk about that? Like, yeah, like maybe you want to keep him in the serious areas because that's where it matters. It matters only when it's serious time to me. Yeah. I know I I actually had I was meeting with someone who's starting to disciple me from afar, a man named John Eldridge. You know John Eldridge? So so he's walking with another goat. He's insane about all these guys. John Eldridge is like a spiritual ninja guru. Like he's crazy. I had no idea how amazing this I knew. I mean, his writing's prolific, but we're on these Zoom calls, and he's like, like, hey, let's all let's wait on the Lord. So we'll sit quietly. And then he's like, Do you have anything? And I'm like, no. And he's like, well, and he just reads my mail. And he just did this, and it had to do with my perspective of Jesus. He's like, I think you have this thing wrong. And I was like, I can't share. It's so, it's so deep. It's like, it's it's I'm I don't want to share because I'm still processing the revelation that it was because it's like I got blindsided by someone who had learned how to listen quietly in prayer. Almost like a perfect transition for what we're talking about today. Wow, I didn't even intend that. But let's say we're hey, we're we're talking about Gen Z alpha generation, we're talking about redeeming culture. We've been talking about Daniel as a model for what it looks like to take on uh what I'll call counterformational practices. Like we're all being formed naturally. We wake up and there's a default setting of living in the world that forms us into its image. And um, we want to be formed into the image of Christ. And what are those practices, habits that we can do? Um, we talked about Daniel being resolved not to defile himself at the table. He'll read the literature, he'll keep the name, he'll live in Babylon, but he doesn't eat from the king's table. He chooses to not participate in that, but participate in all the other things, and that becomes this redemptive foreshadow of the of his power as a teenager. He's 15 years old at that point, Daniel chapter one. And then we looked at last week um the three dudes, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abendigo, the three amigos, umigos, and uh they their counterformational habit or practice is worship in a moment of crisis where the whole empire is forced to worship an idol made in the image of Nebuchadnezzar. They refuse and they're thrown into the fire to be burned alive, which um that also is a whole countercultural thing. And they don't burn, instead, they reveal uh that their God delivers people, right? Which is thematic throughout the whole of the Old Testament and foreshadowing of a God who will deliver us from evil and the sin, Jesus. Um, and we see that what we want for this next generation is we want them to take on habits where they resolve now at a young age. They they're formed into these habits that shape them for the future, as well as like be worshippers, because that's a powerful tool for what it looks like to engage in culture. The next one, we'll get from the story in a little bit, but let's stay on Gen Z. You were you had some fascinating concepts we were talking about. I would love for you to like start there. If you don't know, Slav is youth pastor at Garden Church, the church that my wife and I lead that you participate in. You're you've been coming for a long time, almost two years now. Yeah. Two years. And we were talking about kind of these characteristics of Gen Z and alpha generation that are resilient. Why don't you talk about that? Yeah, well, uh, this is from a Barnes study that happened, I think right around the time of COVID. And they were trying to define what kind of characteristics make up a resilient disciple. Yes. And at the time, you know, there we were experiencing crisis and COVID, and we were really trying to figure out how do we move forward with Gen Z, especially in this time. And what you'll see is like the majority of Americans would label themselves as Christians. Um, and so what they really wanted to find out, what does that mean? And so they had a few categories. They had uh prodigals, so uh individuals who just recently left the faith that would still identify with the Christian values. They had nomads, which would be individuals who would call themselves Christians, but not really subscribe or ascribe to a certain denomination or a church. Then they had individuals uh that were uh going to church every once in a while, what we would call CEO Christians. And then they found Christmas Easter only. Yeah, CEO. Yeah, Christmas Easter and only. Sorry, that's Pastor Lingo. Um and what is the only CEO? Oh, quick got it. Yeah, yeah, there you go. Thank you. And then they found within the rem, like within the remnant of all these people who would call themselves Christians, only 10% is what they would call resilient disciples. Well, so of the 70, 60 to 70 percent of individuals who call themselves Christians in the United States, only 10% are really individuals who are resilient. And they're like the marker of resilience are very basic, very basic in their eyes. It's attending church once a month at a minimum, believing in the authority of scripture, and that scripture is able to dictate their life. That is, I don't, that's not my definition of resilience. Pretty that's just Christian. So they attend church once a month, they believe in the authority of scripture, and that scripture has power to influence and direct my life. Exactly. That's resilience according to this study. Wow, which is sad. I think we need a new definition of resilience, resilience, which even goes further to show like what what what percentage of followers of Jesus in America, whatever that means, are actually on fire, all sold out for Jesus individuals. It's probably a small, small, small remnant, which is why we see a lot of like Christians today just being bought, like bought by politics, by algorithms, as we talked about, consumerism and all those things. But, anyways, they they surveyed all the resilient disciples and they came out with five markers that like really contributed to the resilience of faith, which I thought was really interesting. They're great. Can I share those numbers? Number one is uh to form a resilient identity, they had to experience intimacy with Jesus. Yeah. So 89% would say my relationship with Jesus brings me deep joy and satisfaction. 83% would say Jesus speaks to me in a way that is relevant to my life. And 91% would say worship is a lifestyle, not just an event. And then a part of this is also I can hear God's voice for myself. I engage with the Lord in scripture. So intimacy with Jesus was really crucial and key, which is what we're gonna talk about in this podcast. Um, secondly, they said that these resilient disciples had an abnormal way of actually exercising the muscles of cultural discernment. Yes. So they were able to spot the narratives of Babylon and able to discern what was true and what was not true. Yeah. And within this, they would say, you know, 86% would say the Bible teaching I receive in my church is relevant to my life, that the church I attend, I receive wisdom to how to live faithfully, and so on and so forth. Next in that, can I continue on? Yeah, go all five. So interesting. All right, this is not for me. This is from faith for uh for exiles. When isolation and mistrust are the norms, they recommend, and these resilient disciples have formed meaningful intergenerational relationships. Yes, so good. Well, we have found like even with an R youth ministry, for a person to be fully formed in the image of Jesus, they need at least five to seven adults outside of their family structure to speak into their life. Wow. And that's what they found here as well. Also, they uh the fourth one is uh that they train for vocational discipleship, that God designs, they believe that God designs each person with a unique calling for their life, that my church does a good job of helping me understand how to live out my life uh in my faith in the workplace, and that I want to use my unique talents and gifts to honor God. And then lastly, they found that these resilient disciples were resilient because they were taught how to engage in countercultural mission. So good. What was so fascinating, I saw Tim Keller talk about this. They compared the resilience of faith of kids who grew up in a city versus who kids who grew up in the suburbs. And they found that kids who grew up in the city far exceeded um the amount uh of far exceeded the resilience in Jesus, as did the kids in suburbia, which is very fascinating because when you're in suburbia, the the inclination is to protect, to coddle, to make sure that they are protected from all the narratives of culture. But in the city, you walk out and you're immediately greeted with the cultural narratives of Babylon. Yeah. And you have to, from an early age, wrestle with what is Babylon saying? Yeah. Versus how does this interact with my faith? That's right. And so they're they're engaging with all these narratives, able to discern it, and then also are able to live in such a way that's counter to it in a missional capacity. And so in a big conference, they they they surveyed thousands of teenagers and they asked a question to these uh teenagers at this youth conference if you're still if you're still not following Jesus, why? The number one reason is because I haven't seen my parents' faith lived out in real life, which is so telling. So, anyways, these are the things that we we see that are that are markers of resilient disciples, and in the sense of just the basic minimum of believing the authority of scripture and attending church once a month. I'm so fascinated by this. That that thing you said about Tim Keller and the city resilience. Like I wonder what it would be now based on because I I believe that the Babylon is now piped in through social media, like the the world that you used to experience. Like I think about back in the day, it was like, all right, we're gonna go off to college, and that's where all of it's gonna be tested in this worldly experience. We grew up in you know, youth ministry, we're in high school, it's kind of sheltered, and then you go off to the big city into the college, and then you're exposed to the world of ideology and ideas. But now that quote unquote college-like experience is, you know, happening at 12, 12 years old, fifth grade, sixth grade, yeah. As soon as you get an iPhone, as soon as you get introduced to YouTube, if you go on any streaming platform, the the uh advertisements for the Lakers game last night, you know, like yeah, they're all shaping um the worldview in a way that is very much Babylon advertisement. Right. Yeah, the city now has come to our homes. City's in every home, city's sitting in our pocket. Yep. And how that is so fascinating. I love I love those characteristics. I think it's heartbreaking to hear that resilience is those three characteristics. Like crazy. I mean, that just seems crazy. Come to church once a month. Wasn't the stat I want to talk about this? We you and I were talking about it the other day or today. We were talking about how there were there's like this statistic being said. Um, I've said it and I I got it wrong, but like Gen Z is the most church generation since the Civil War. That's not what's what the statistic is. This statistic is this Gen Z is attending church the most than previous generations. Right. So Gen Z who have grown up within the church go to chork church more regularly than other generations. So rather than once a month, it's two, three times a month. So yeah, it's uh two point something. It's actually Gen Z is 1.9 times a month. Uh millennials. Millennials is 1.7 or 1.8. And I don't know what the other ones are, but oh, you don't care about the older intergenerational. I do care. He's the thought of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Like it's four generations. Let's go. Okay, I know this isn't a parenting podcast, but can I ask you a little bit? Let's go. I'm a parent. So are you? So barely. How do you okay? Because I'm just gonna be honest and then maybe I'll edit my thoughts later. Is it okay to worship coffee? Is that a that's an idol too, right? I was actually gonna ask that last week. Speaking of literary, I had no coffee for Lent and I couldn't do it. I don't think Jesus would ever ask you to fast from coffee. I did. I did six days on the seventh day. I said, all right, that's enough. On the seventh day? On the seventh day, he gave you caffeine. Sorry. Um so I I obviously come from a background, not church, uh, not following Jesus. My best friend Ari, she comes from the same type of background. And I do see a sort of resilience in people who didn't grow up in church, who come from darkness, who come from mental health struggles, who come from like seeing everything the world has to offer, yeah. Where like your faith crystallizes because it's like, no, no, I've seen the opposite of this and I want nothing to do with it. How what is the balance between protecting your kids to where they're not tainted and they're not like filled with impurity and things that they shouldn't see versus like sheltering them too much to the point where they don't know how to interact with people who aren't exactly like them? What I've seen with people who grew up in church, not all the time, but a lot of the time is they they can't evangelize because they don't know how to talk to people. Right. Yeah, I think, well, this is a such a great question, and it's something my wife and I have really navigated because I grew up in public schools with Christian parents. I walked away from the faith, came back hardcore, sold out. I went to a Christian university after UCSB where I was partying, and all these Christians at this university, Vanguard University, which we have our Costa Mesa campus there, they uh would be like partying, you know, as Christians. And I was like, You call this a party? I'm like, I was in Isla Vista, like they were doing cake stands, like this is a joke, you know. They're just like, what is this? You know, and so for me it was like you gotta live it out. And for Alex and I, my wife, when we were raising our kids in Long Beach, we're in this city, and we we wanted to homeschool because what I grew up with in public school is very different than public school now. And it's it's definitely culturally very different as far as ideologies that are pressed on to the children. And we need to be very clear about that. Like what we have as the norm in media, the views of certain ideologies that are a minority that have seemed like a majority, but they're they're a majority because they're pressed on all of the streaming platforms and they're indoctrinated by by Ivy League, by schools and systems of power influencing children. So think about this is perfect Babylonian segue because what's been formed by institutions of power, by ideologies uh that will be liberal theology, liberal ideologies that are uh policy created by certain administrations forced into norms for elementary, junior, high, and high school education systems are not normal. Like certain belief systems about uh marriage and family and identity and idea are those ideologies that are impressed on children. I remember in 2016, 20, 2017, I was helping parents in our in our church navigate conversations about their preschool that were having transgender conversations in preschool in 2017. And this was like this was 2017. So this is before it became like the the big conversation, and we're having to navigate the the morality, the theology, Genesis 1 and 2. I was walking them through that, which we should do that at some point. Yes, yes, uh, do a whole thing on identity and sexuality and all this stuff because because uh we have biblical worldview, and it we don't have to be aggressive towards our views, but we need to hold them. But when that's coming at us in every every direction, we we just said, hey, we're gonna opt for homeschooling. This is what we chose. And we we integrated our kids into a lot of other programs, but we homeschooled because of that, because of the school system that we were part of in Long Beach at the time, and then because of the influence, because it's not just and and we listen, I have we have the luxury of homeschooling. That's a luxury that we were able to afford. If not, you have to have a lot of hard conversations early and consistently as intentional parents. I'm gonna I'm gonna talk too much about intentional parenting right now, but I just want to say you need to engage your children in a way that shapes a resilient mindset. So I'll I actually was thinking about this last night because the Lakers were on. And I remember in 2020, my oldest son Ezra and I were going to our friend's house because it it was like the finals, and the Lakers were in the finals when it was the bubble. I don't know if you remember that. Yeah. And we go over to our friend's house because they had the Lakers. Uh, you could watch it on their that we didn't have TV. We show up to their house, and my son, so eight years ago, he would be uh seven, he's seven years old. Six years ago, he was seven years old. And he he we were driving back like the the second finals game or third finals game, and he's like, Oh, I love going with you to watch this. Oh you too, like why? And he's like, I love the mini movies that I get to watch between the game. He's talking about ads, oh commercials, commercials, yeah, and he called them mini movies, and like I had to explain to him what they were. Yeah, and I was like, Oh, this is perfect. So we we I I I'd shape my boys to say, hey, everything you see in between is is trying to get you into a worldview to sell you something. So we would be going, I'm like, what's that trying to sell? Oh, driving in the car. So good. And like, uh, you know, and I'm like, that's it's selling you, you know, uh an iPhone, it's selling you a backpack, or it's selling, you know, like it's selling you a Sony PlayStation. It looks like a space movie, but it's selling you, and I and I'm trying to get him to see the world that we live in because it's not neutral. And that's coming at us a thousand different directions. So, like, you know, so-and-so has a conversation. My son has a conversation with a friend. I'm like, well, hey, what do you think about that? And he's telling me, you know, his views, like, what do you think my view is on this? And we would we'll talk about it. But that takes so much time and energy. What tends to happen is parents just hand their kids over to YouTube, hand their kids over to the platforms, hand them over to screens, and they're getting shaped and parented by those. So we're being shaped by these devices. And so, anyways, I went off too much on this. I have a lot to say about this, but I don't think you have to homeschool. I do think you need to be responsible. And if you're not intentionally discipling your kids, like I disciple my kids, I disciple Ezra and Amos. I they see faith, they see it lived out, they see us worship on Sunday, they see how I interact with them on Monday. I have to repent to them all the time and apologize and have to apologize for how I'm quick and I lose my temper, but they also see me live generously, read my Bible. They wake up to dad doing quiet time every day. Amos is the the, you know, after I'm up, he comes up and he lays down. I have my Bible open. I pray for him. Every night I pray for them. Yeah, you know, we talk about scripture, we're living it out. So beautiful. Yeah, we need to do a whole series. Yeah, that would be so good. Yeah, I would say, like, what uh just being in youth ministry, I'm not a parent of a teen yet. So I've got I'm like you're you got all these teams, you're yeah, discipline. What we see is that the parents don't live it out, they just like defer to the church to be the disciplers. Yeah. So they don't worship at home, they don't live it out like Pastor Darren is saying, you know? And so there's a dissonance between what's happening at home versus what's being preached. And so that's like my biggest thing is worship at home. Turn on worship music, talk about the things that really matter. Like kids can handle tough conversations and like complex situations. They really can. So bringing it at home and just talking about it, that's what I would say for our youth parents if they're listening. I just started this um few year journey of discipling Ezra Ezra's gonna be 13. It's called the Ion Path. And it's a a rite of passage discipleship thing that we're launching at our church. It's all over, it's starting to kind of be released, and uh it's for dads to disciple their sons or Their daughters, and it's really intentional. And we did 30 conversations every day. So it was like a five to 10 minute prompt from an app that we had. And it was like conversations like, How do you know you're saved? And it was walking, and Ezra, I loved Ezra's answers. Like, and it was other things like what's the hardest part of your day? And like each day was different. But one of my favorite conversations was like, How do you know you have faith and that you'll you'll we'll be together in heaven? And his response was so theologically rich. He was like, Well, well, I believe that Jesus is Lord and raised from the dead, and I believe that he's Father, Son, Holy Spirit, and I trust him with my life. So I know I'll be with him forever. And I was like, That's so good. Like, I don't know if adults will have that clear assurance of salvation. Like, how do you know you're saved? I put my trust in Jesus. I know he's Lord. I know he's raised from the dead. He's revealed himself as Father, Son, Holy Spirit. And he died on the cross for me, he said, so that I can be with him forever. I'm like, yeah, all right, great. And so you got it. There we go. See, you're doing it. Oh, yeah. Um, by grace. And this is the other thing. Lots of prayer segue. Prayer is let's go. Let's go. Okay. Should we jump into Daniel chapter six? Daniel Six, would you read that for us? I'm gonna, I'm gonna just sip on my coffee because this is yeah, is it we can mute? We can mute the uh the swallowing. Glorious, yeah. Can you mute that? Danny Six. Danny Danny Six. I love it. Gen Z Danny. All right, all right. A lot of time has passed. Wait, a lot of time has passed. Yes. So the first chapter, he's about 15. Chapter six. Some scholars say he's like in his 80s. Yeah. So it's been a long time. So go for it. He's lived a long life devoted to the Lord. All right. It pleased Darius, so we got a new king now, to appoint 120 satraps to rule throughout the kingdom, with three chiefs minister over them, one of whom was Daniel. The satraps were made accountable to them so that the king might not suffer loss. Now, Daniel so distinguished himself among the chief ministers and the satraps by his exceptional qualities that the king planned to set him over the whole kingdom. At this, the chief ministers and the satraps tried to find grounds for charges against Daniel in his conduct of government affairs, but they were unable to do so. They could find no corruption in him because he was trustworthy and neither corrupt nor negligent. Finally, these men said, We will never find any basis for charges against this man Daniel unless it has to do something with the law of his God. Fascinating. So these chief ministers and satraps went as a group to the king and said, May King May King Darius live forever. The royal ministers, prefects, satraps, advisors, and governors have all issued that the king should issue an erdict and enforce the decree that anyone who prays to any God or human being during the next thirty days, except you, your majesty, shall be thrown into the lion's den. Now, your majesty issue the decree and put in writing so that it cannot be altered, in accordance with the law of the Medes and the Persians, which cannot be repealed. So King Darius put the decree in writing. Now, when Daniel learned that the decree had been published, he went home to his upstairs room, where he where the windows opened towards Jerusalem, and three times a day he got down on his knees and prayed, giving thanks to his God, just as he had done before. Then these men went as a group and found Daniel praying, asking God for help. So they went to the king and spoke to him about his royal decree. Did you not publish a decree that during the next thirty days anyone who prays to any God or human being except to you, your majesty, would be thrown into the lions then? The king answered, The decree stands in accordance with the law of the Medes and the Persians, which cannot be repealed. Then they said to the king, Daniel, who is one of the exiles from Judah, pays no attention to you, your majesty, or to the decree you are you put in writing. He still prays three times a day. And when the king heard this, he was greatly distressed. He was determined to rescue Daniel and made every effort until sunset to save him. Then the men went as a group to King Darius and said to him, Remember, your majesty, according to the law of the Medes and the Persians, no decree or edict that the king issues can be changed. So the king gave the order, and they brought Daniel and threw him into the lion's den. The king said to Daniel, May your God, whom you serve continually, rescue you. A stone was brought and placed over the mouth of the den, and the king sealed it with his own signet ring and with the ring of his nobles, so that Daniel's Daniel's situation might not be changed. Then the king returned to his palace and spent the night without eating and without any entertainment being brought to him, and he could not sleep. At the first light of dawn, the king got up and hurried to the lion's den. When he came near the den, he called to Daniel in an anguished voice, Daniel, servant of the living God, has your God, whom you serve continually, been able to rescue you from the lions? And Daniel answered, May the king live forever. My God sent his angel and he shut the mouths of lions. They have not hurt me because I have not f I I was found innocent in his sight, nor have I done any wrong before you, your majesty. The king was overjoyed and gave orders to lift Daniel out of the den. And when Daniel was lifted from the den, no wound was found on him, because he had trusted in his God. And at the king's command, the men who brought uh the men who falsely accused Daniel were brought in and thrown into the lion's den along with their wives and children, and before they reached the floor of the den, the lions overpowered them and crushed all their bones. Then King Darius wrote to the nations of the people and of every language and all the earth, may you prosper greatly. I issued the a decree that in every part of my kingdom people must fear and reverence the God of Daniel, for he is the living God, and he endures forever. His kingdom will not be destroyed, his dominion will never end. He rescues and saves and performs signs and wonders in the heavens and on the earth, and he has rescued Daniel from the power of the lions. So Daniel prospered during the reign of Darius and the reign of Cyrus the Persian. How do you not get so fired up? I know the word of the Lord. Thanks be to God. Thanks be to God. So good. I love it. Such a good story. I I want to kind of riff on a few things. First of all, chapter one, uh, this Daniel's not a chronological book, so we don't read it chronologically. It's kind of how it's arranged. But I do think there's something here I want to highlight. Uh uh Daniel's 15 in chapter one, and let's say 85, because there's a 70-year period, is what we estimate between chapter one and chapter six. And there's three separate kings of Babylon. So Daniel doesn't redeem one Babylon. It's three variations of Babylon with three different kings. Chapter four and chapter five and chapter six are three different kings. Chapter one, a 15-year-old's boy, a 15-year-old boy resolves not to be defiled. That's a cool story. But the question I think that this as a narrative is asking is will what you resolve as a young man or woman be sustained in a lifetime? Yeah. And so by chapter six, what we see is what that resolution looks like 70 years later. Can we become the kinds of people that finish well? And the word that Darius uses is continually worship. Continually worship, ongoing, ongoing, still never ceasing. The hardest thing about being a Christian in Babylon is not the moment of crisis. It's the hardest thing is the slow, ordinary, unromantic decades of fidelity that nobody is going to put on a podcast or a story. Wow. Daniel 6 is not really about lions. It's about the kind of person that lives in such a way that the lions can't eat. And that's that's what I think is what I'm after is we get fascinated by the miracle of the lions having a mouth shut, which by the way, the lions at that point represent the God, the symbol of the of Babylon. It's the symbol of Babylonian Empire and the gods that they worship. So the fact that the mouths are shut is Yahweh one, Babylon zero. Wow. And that's a continued story that goes on. But but beyond that, you have the Daniel. I'm just retelling the story. He's gonna take over the kingdom. Darius is putting him in charge. And you have uh uh these people who conspire, there's a conspiracy against him, and they can't find any corruption. So they have to create something, right? They have to create something that will uh create a crisis for Daniel. And I think it's I love what Dallas Willard said. He says, and this is a paraphrase, Dallas Willard used to say that the goal of the Christian life is not to do extraordinary things in extraordinary moments, the goal is to become the kind of person from whom extraordinary things flow naturally because the soul has been formed in Christ. And I think that's it. It's like, can we become and Pastor Bill, my pastor doctrine, he he he would say the goal of Christian life with Jesus, the life with Jesus, is to become the kind of person that can be trusted by Jesus with a yes to our requests in prayer. That we become the kind of peop people that ask for things that Jesus would ask if he were us in that situation in the name of Jesus. So what we say in the name of Jesus is yes and amen from Jesus. Yeah, because we've been trained in our asking. Wow, we've been trained in our life, and that that is an incredible amount of power. Like that's an incredible to become the kind of person that's resourced with heaven, where heaven is dispersed through our prayers, to be trusted with that requires an incredible amount of trust and humility and formation. And and I'm trying to get at underneath the surface, like we were talking about, like what's underneath underneath the surface of someone's life? I'm I'm fascinated always by the habits and lifestyle of leaders. Like you're gonna interview Philip Anthony Mitchell, who's experiencing, you know, this move of God, and clearly God's sovereignly moving in his life, but you see, his life is marked by prayer. And he he posts about it, he talks about it. They they've had a prayer going uh Wednesday prayer that's been going on forever since his dad was a part of the church before his dad passed. These are just glimpses of what I've picked up on from him. But I'm always fascinated about the characteristics and the habits that are formed. So, what we get a glimpse of is Daniel prays three times a day. Yeah. So 85, he's praying three times a day. Well, here's something where did that come from? Josiah's reformation. Wow. Oh, wow. So some leader that he was a child under that brought reformation to Israel, reinstated the law, the prayer hours, the temple, the sacrificial system, like scripture gone. The scripture came out. Yeah, you have these habits that were formed uh in a youth in a kid's ministry and a youth ministry that sustained him in Babylon. Crazy. He would pray the prayer hours. By the way, those prayer hours are in the book of Acts when Peter and John go to the temple at the time of prayer to the gate beautiful to pray in Jerusalem. And there's the man at the gate beautiful that they don't have silver or gold to give to you, but what they give is in the name of Jesus walk, they're going to that sustained prayer rhythm. Come on, like that's there's something which was built after Nehemiah. After Nehemiah, and continue it on to that day. I mean, so so good. I just think there's something here, you know. You look at what's going on in the world, and there's some beautiful things about being shaped by these habits, these practices of prayer. And I want to talk about that in a second, but I I just want to say this generation right now doesn't understand. I I don't think they understand. And this is why like I'm always like flashing this the hey warning, warning, warning. The smartest minds in the world right now are conspiring against this generation to draw their attention away from what's in front of them towards devices that are designed for addiction and designed for outrage and anxiety and mental illness. We without we have the scientific massive evidence that this is a fact. This is not a debate. This is a fact that the smartest people in the world with the most amount of money, the most powerful companies that have ever existed in human history, we're talking about the Babylon of empires like Apple and Instagram and TikTok and YouTube, Google. These are the most powerful systems and tools in the world. They're not all bad, but they're clearly used to keep you on the platform, right? They're designed for that purpose. They're designed, they make you more anxious, they make you more insecure, they make you more angry, and they keep you addicted. Wow. But that is the conspiracy that has built the attention economy that we live in. Six-second videos, yes, that's how we have capacity for. And what was Darius creating that you can't pray to any other gods? You can't put your attention and devotion to anywhere else. Yep. And I just talk about uh as you were talking, what came to mind was Peter Thiel, uh, as he was talking about AI, and he said he said something along the lines of he believes that God himself has ordained him through AI to bring about the new heaven and the new earth. Which is Peter Teal. Peter Teal, which is crazy. So is that the Antichrist? Yeah, yeah, right, right. In one world order. But I like what's so fascinating about what you just said is the amount of conversations that I've had of people turning to their AI for help. Oh, yeah, and conversate back and forth. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Don't you feel like that would be like the replacement of prayer in the daily life of a follower of Jesus? 100%. So AI, I I've shared this. Um, I got to sit with one of the head researchers of Anthropic, and she was gathering world leaders and leaders of religious movements. I heard about this. Um, and it came out the Washington Post talked about it. Like there's there's a whole all these articles that came out about that gathering. Yeah. Because these companies are hiring theologians and pastors to make sense of what how what how AI is organizing itself around they're creating their own neural networks. And her argument is they're looking for the source. So AI is naturally just like they don't they don't say AI is created anymore, they say it's grown. So you should read read about this. And and her argument is anthropic is the only AI company that exists for the better of humanity. All the other ones are for-profit and very dangerous. She she made a whole argument on why to be on Claude, not on chat or Brock. Right. Yeah. So we moved everything over here. We we we did. Yeah. So you need to get off chat off chat and all the other ones because because of what they exist for, and this one thing which terrifies me. Here's what I'll say. So I'm big on I love, I think therapy is a gift as long as you have the right therapists. But attachment theory is pretty significant. I think actually that word I talked about Hesed in the first verse in Daniel chapter one, that word Hesed is like loving, kindness, covenantal love. Um, Hesed is used to describe God's love in the Old Testament. And I think Hesed is actually attachment love, like this idea that we are designed as humans for attachment. So you look at a child when they're born, a newborn. One of the producers here has got a two-month-old. When the child comes out of the womb, they are designed to build attachment towards their parents. Like every, every your their eye contact, the interactions, your mouth, their scary neurobiologically wired for attachment. And if a child doesn't get that, it creates a lot of harm in the future. Wow. Um, lots of disorders come out of having inappropriate or no attachment whatsoever. But we all have a dysfunctional attachments, like some of sort of anxious attachment or you know, avoidant, you know, we have these things. What's that? Disordered, disordered attachment, but we want secured attachment. I think has said is secure attachment. I actually will go to say you can't have secure attachment with others unless you have secure attachment with Yahweh, with God. Because when you have that attachment to God, He becomes a safe place that you can live. That's salvation. Yeah, right. It's so good. There's a whole there's there's a lot of great books. That is genius, right? Well, that's it's not mine. It's Jim Wilder, it's Dallas Willard, it's all these people. AI has been like we have research on this. There, it's your AI chat, chat GPT, it's designed for attachment. So, what they're saying, research is showing that it will be more addictive than social media because it will actually it's actually designed to build attachment to you. You ever talk to chat when you're going through a hard time? So, but it will also take on your personality. So, yes, if you have mental disorders and you're asking, I'm not saying you. Maybe I do. You're asking your chat when you're depressed, it will keep you forming. It will, it will take on a bit of that personality to keep you connected. Yeah, there's research on this. Look it up. It is so true. All to say, we're living in a Babylonian crisis like never before, right? Where the replacement for human connection is being lost. Now we've already lost it. How did we lose it? We know that social media platforms have disrupted loneliness and depression and anxiety like never before. Add the new form of AI attachment, crazy, disorder. Yeah, and we're losing all human connection. Yep. Well, just imagine when you transfer, you know, in 10 years' time, the AI into a physical thing that you are able to interact with. 100%. Like I'm already thinking about what we're gonna have to talk about as the church when it comes to We've talked about this. Yeah. I've been saying this for years. It's crazy. Yeah. Well, okay, I'm gonna say it because I want you. I've been saying for years that the church has had, you know, position papers on theology and doctrine. And we will need a position paper on what is human, why AI doesn't have a soul, and why you can't bring your AI robot to church and get baptized. Get baptized, yeah. This is a conversation we've been having. Oh my gosh, behind the scenes because this is where it's going. Why does this matter? Like, this isn't like a red flag, but this is like this is where it goes. We already know a person in Japan married their AI. That's crazy. I didn't think that's probably happened so many times by now. That's been on the news. Um, I also think it's far more common that people treat their chat as like as an attachment figure, yes, you know, a therapist. So, this what does all this mean? Well, when we're not going to the source God, we're going to an artificial intelligence for answers. For like, why aren't we, why aren't we, if we're not being formed in prayer, which is an ongoing loving relationship with God, that's how we communicate to God. That's how we listen and engage. That's how we how we form our souls. If we can't sit in silence for 10 minutes, we're going to be shaped by the world. If we displace our connection with God for AI, then AI shapes our soul. Right. We're all the Babylon one. Something soulless shapes our soul. It doesn't even make any sense. Yeah. I think so scary. Plan to talk about AI here. Well, it just I know it's so dry. We need to. Yeah, this is another conversation that we have to have. No, maybe we don't want to talk about AI anymore. But I mean, I will tell you what I see within my sphere is people using chat GPT for like how to respond in conflict in certain situations. Like they will send entire text threads and be like, what is this person's motive? What did they mean by this? Was this aggressive when they said this? How should I respond? They'll like write out a text and then say, make this more or make this less aggressive, make this less confrontational. And so we're using chat as like this middleman between us and other people. Yeah. Do you not know that? I mean, I'm getting convicted right now. Well, my wife and I were moving next week, and we spent time in prayer to discern if we're gonna move to our new spot. You drop it in chat or something. But the first thing I did was go to go to go to, yeah, like list me out the pros and cons. Like, what am I missing here that I I'm not thinking about? Our financial situation, like like the finances don't make sense to do this, but if it's good for your like all the things that I was like, I should have taken this to prayer first, primarily to make this decision. Start like start there, include yeah, chat. Well, it can be part of your process of discernment. Yeah, it's it's a tool. It's not like in this thing, like I think all things like YouTube is a tool, but it can become an idol. I think AI has uh incredible potential and power. It's gonna, it's it we are in a new age because of it, and the world is just starting. It is also a dangerous threat, right? So it needs to be a tool that doesn't that we use, we know how to use, but that we don't replace. And I think what you just said, like that's interesting, like using dropping the text conversation, what you know, that that's fascinating to me because what you get as a human by processing those conversations with God is you get wisdom, you learn discernment, right? You learn um engaging in a relationship without having this artificial response that's not your language, that's not your words, that's not your insight, um, that's not God's. Like, and I think that that now we're we're exploring this whole new world where we should we do need to talk about it because is AI a threat to your prayer life? Yeah, like if the it's because what it is is a shortcut, right? It's a shortcut. To anything. It's a shortcut to having a a you know an edited paper. It's a shortcut to a a long response to a text. It's a shortcut to reading the information. It's a shortcut to a podcast template when you didn't really have that much time to study. So you're just like, all right, Chad, give me like a five-point outline of, you know. Are you confessing now? Or I'm just kidding. Wait, this but that so this is so good. It's such a good idea. AI is is a great tool. And it is a threat to your life with God. It is. Because it becomes a replacement for God in your life. And I think that is what you just quoted about Peter Thiel. Yeah. Is is a real reality. And there are people talking about this. We've not talked about it here. But in regards to Babylon, in regards to formation, being formed by something, in regards to habits that shape you, if your first solution to conflict is let me get this run through AI, let me run this through my chat or whatever it is, versus let me take this to the Lord, that's a problem. So we're we're talking about this countercultural formational process is called prayer, which we've talked about prayer. Prayer as a you know primary ongoing relationship with God. Prayer is a tool for uh or uh partnering with God to getting things done on earth as it is in heaven. We're taught to pray right by Jesus in the Lord's prayer. We've talked about this before in other podcasts, but prayer is a counterformational practice, habit. It's a habit that shapes you. It shapes you to see clearly in a world that's drowning in Babylon's narratives. Yeah. And we don't realize that every time we don't go to prayer, but we go to social media, we go to a friend, we go to the phone, we go to the text, we go to the AI. That's shaping our inner world. How do we challenge that formation? Well, we we learn to have an ongoing loving relationship, a set time of prayer that's that's consistent. Yeah, that's what Daniel reveals. So, what I'm curious what you would say to this. What is Daniel doing as he's on his knees? Well, what do you do in prayer? Well, commune with God. So let's talk about that. For me, what is prayer? Let's talk all talk about this. For me, prayer is I bring my my gratitude and I bring my attention to God. Let's start there. I bring my attention to God. That's the hardest one. Right. So if we have a six-second attention span, less than a goldfish, according to scientists. It's a place where let me say it better. Prayer is when I keep bringing my attention to God in a set time because I get distracted. I keep bringing my attention. I do not bring my phone into my prayer time because my phone is a infinity of distractions that shape me towards the urgent needs of the moment. Yes. So I bring my time. It's a place where I bring my real self, and my real self is met by God. It's not a place where I can show off, it's not a place where I can perform. It's not a place, prayer is not a place where you can hide. It's a place of absolute vulnerability because any false version of yourself is completely evaporated by the real version because God can only deal with the real version of you. Um I love that. It's a place where uh it's a place of encounter, it's a place of getting things done on behalf of God, it's a place of listening. Um, it's a place of true desperation. So for me, in the seasons I've gone through, it's a place where I'm bringing the absolute brokenness that I'm walking through, pain, the issues I've had. Um, oddly enough, I just shared this. I was talking about a couple weeks ago in in, I don't know where the when this comes out, how long it will be, but a couple weeks ago, I shared on Sunday that, you know, I've prayed for people and I've seen immediate healing. And it's true, I've seen that. And in my own prayer time, I pray for things that need to be healed that are not yet heaven on earth. And I shared, like I've prayed for my wife's heart for 20 something years, you know, uh, 19 years. And she got prayer from someone the Friday before I said that in on a sermon. She's not had one heart episode. Wow. Since since she got prayer at a football game by two women. Oh my goodness. And she was having 25% of her heartbeats were were episodes. 25% of her daily heartbeats were PVCs. And it's been almost it's been two weeks today since she's had an episode since the recording of this. I'm praying that it's it's healed. Yes, Lord. But it's where all of that frustration of not getting answered prayer comes out. That's so crazy. So I don't know what Daniel's doing. I think some of it's that. Well, it says that he was uh asking help for help, for discernment, yeah, for wisdom. Yeah, yeah, it's so good. Yeah, go for it. I was gonna say, what is your prayer life? Yeah, my prayer life, it's it flows in and out of seasons. It just looks different, and there's a consistent time that I meet with the Lord, but just the content of prayer looks different. Um, if you asked me two months ago what I was praying for, my mind was primarily occupied with Be Filled, our our youth conference that we host. And and then now it's uh our new baby that we found out that we're having at the end of the year, and and uh a lot of it is me learning to accept the father's love. So one thing that I've been I've been doing because of just the way I was raised and the Ukrainian culture I was raised, uh, God is viewed as a distant, judgmental. And so I've had to unlearn a lot of that, and it's in prayer that um I think is it now in? I think it's now in. He recommends praying, Jesus, you are the beloved for 10 minutes. And then you pray, Jesus, I am the beloved for another 10 minutes. I love that. And then for the next 10 minutes, Jesus, we are the beloved. Wow. And um, I've been doing an iteration of that in the in the morning, uh, just because that's not a felt experience in my life yet. So I'm trying to um bring that before the Lord in prayer until that is true in my being. So good. Um so that's how my prayer life looks like. And and throughout the day, it's like you know bringing your attention to him. Yeah, bringing attention back to him. If I have, you know, and this happens over time, it doesn't happen immediately, but um, I've learned that if I'm like, if there's a moment that is causing my system to react against whatever's happening instead of reacting, I I try to slow down, bring my attention to Jesus. And that's only really have been has been a part of of my reaction in the last six months. So not even my whole life. So good. How about yourself? Yeah. So beautiful. My prayer life looks different all the time. I think other than my specific allotted quiet time, I'm a big communer, as we talked about at the beginning of one of the episodes. I like to invite Jesus into like most moments throughout my day. One of the ways I commune with the Holy Spirit the most is just asking him questions throughout my day. Like every time I think of something or I'm pondering a thought, I like invite Jesus into it and I just ask him. And I oftentimes find that like eventually the answer will be like dropped in my spirit almost. And it's just like a special thing that we have. When it comes to my quiet time and prayer, a lot of it is me simply like maybe it's my Catholic roots, but I do a lot of adoration, like a lot of just like loving Jesus. And I like recite scripture to Jesus. I like tell him who he is, and I let him know that he is the Lord, the Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel. Like I just like constantly tell him who he is. And then from that place, I go into contending and declaring and praying for people. But most of my prayer life looks like me talking to how I talk to you guys, like, Jesus, I don't like that. I don't like this. What do we do about this? Can you change that? You know, it's like a very normal conversation, and then it's just a lot of adoration and contending for things and just like, yeah, receiving all that he has, all that he is and has to offer. I think it's so good. I think the depth and the diversity of prayer that one can have in their life is important and in different seasons. Yeah, like totally. I think also what we're what we're trying to teach from the book of Daniel is that there are there are habits and characteristics, disciplines that you have to choose to embody and practice when you don't feel like it. So prayer doesn't have to be, oh, I have a desire to prayer. Prayer can be, no, I have a set hour, Daniel, three times a day. Like he opened the window towards Jerusalem and prayed. We need the next generation to resolve in themselves, not to worship to the music of Babylon. Yeah. Uh, you know, to not defile themselves by the feed of this world, and also to set out a time to commune with God, to seek his wisdom for discernment and decisions and guidance in everyday life moments. Yes. To to commune with God and learn his heart and be formed by his heart and his character to bring their real selves, their real self into prayer where God shapes you. Like I was at church in Hawaii. I went to a church that was 38 adults that Sunday and like 40 kids. Beautiful. And it was a small church plant, brought me back to the early days, except this was, you know, in Hawaii, so it was everyone's in shorts and flip-flops, and it was amazing. And we're singing the song Be Enthroned. You know, Be Enthroned. Yeah. It was going off. And I just had an encounter with God. I felt his presence. I felt his nearness here in this, like, you know, tiny chapel. Wow. And I was being wrecked. And he said to me, Go see your journal in May 2024. So I I I have either scanned my handwritten journals or I've I've typed it out and I went to my notes app and I went to May 2024 and I'm reading and I found a dialogue that I wrote with Jesus. And it was just my like inner prayer life where like I was talking to Jesus and I'd write down what I think he was saying, which I do all the time. So cool. And most of the time it's insignificant. But it was so specific to what we're experiencing in our church right now. Yeah. And what I'm experiencing in my life. Like it was as specific as like be ready to travel back and forth, to preach in multiple locations. You'll have multiple congregations that you'll lead. You'll go from two to three to four to five services. And it was just like, here's what's going to happen. And the insight that he gave me in my prayer time was preparation for what was coming. And it was like prepare your voice, prepare your body, prepare your team for this kind of thing. And I, you know, I remember that. I don't, I don't remember it. And I found it. And I'm like, wow, he whispered to me prompts that prepared our church for what we're living in now. And I think this is what I think is possible. Like, I think there's a generation that's going to listen, listen to the whispers of Jesus that they'll they're listening right now. Yes. And God is going like in five, 10 years from now, there will be a norm that all these, all these Gen Z and Alpha kids are going to be like, you two. Like you are as passionate for Jesus, you are as committed to the word, you are on fire. And it will be like all of a sudden, like the sea, just we're all like this is now the new level. And they're they're all be like, I was hearing this alone at my obscure youth group, you know, in Fresno or my obscure youth group in Huntington Beach, or you know, in the middle of nowhere. And they all were listening. I think that's what God's doing. So good. But where does that fire come from? Committing to a time to be with God in prayer. I think that's that's at the end of the day, we're what we're getting after. You want to resist Babylon, you want to win Babylon. Yeah. Yep. And that's why that's the first thing to go when life gets busy and difficult or whatever. The first thing to go is your prayer life. Yeah. And at uh Garden Youth, we we do a prayer room for students from five to six, an hour. And you tell any 11, 12-year-old to sit still or pray for an hour. It's gonna be resisted. But they're hungry. They're coming like our prayer rooms are filled. And it's it's you know, it's on social media we can make it seem more glorious than it actually is because we we do have you know things that we're working through, but there is a hunger to learn how to pray and how to hear his voice. And it's just beautiful to see. Well, and if anything, you're shaping the next generation to come not just for fun and games and free hot dogs or in and out truck, right, but for the presence of God. And my son, who's 12, come, he doesn't miss unless he's got like we're out of town. He he's at the five o'clock prayer. I take a try, I take a bunch of kids, usually, I drop them off because and I'll I'll I'll text, I have a text to all the parents, like I'm pick them, I'll drop off if you pick up, you know, and and it's incredible that is his youth group. I talk about this all the time. Like his youth group experience is a prayer room and fiery devotion for God. Like they're experiencing the real thing, and that's what we're after. But I would say probably the most contested space in our youth ministry is our prayer room. Wow. Yep. The most amount of conflict, the most amount of resistance, the most amount of logistical nightmares that we have to navigate through is our prayer room. That's so interesting. I'm gonna start praying three times today, morning, noon, and evening. Who's with me? Yeah, are you commit to it? Let's go. I'm going to. Yeah. I can't make that commitment right now. That's okay. Yeah, I think you for right now. Well, I don't know what else we want to talk about. This has been a great We're at an hour. Are we at an hour? So crazy. But I know we're figuring these out. I wanted you to share the Manning, Brendan Manning story of I was about to ask you to share it. It's my favorite story. Have I done it? I think I did it before. All right. If if you haven't heard this, the the story goes Brendan Manning is a priest and uh a woman knocks on the door and says, Hey, can you come visit my father? He's about to die. And he's like, I'll be there in 10 minutes. Goes to the house. Um, she's like, he's in that room. Next to the bed is a chair. And he's like, Oh, were you expecting me? And he's like, No, who are you? And the man in the man who's dying is in the bed. He's like, Um, I'm a priest. Your daughter told me to come. I thought I saw the chair. I thought you were expecting me. He's like, Oh, that actually, yeah, close the door. I want to talk to you. Closes the door, sits in the chair. And he's like, Hey, I'm wondering, you're a priest. Tell me. Um, a few years ago, I wanted to know how to pray. And I went to my uh priest and he gave me a, I asked him the question. He gave me a book by a Swiss theologian. I couldn't understand any of the words in the book, so I gave it back to him. I said, Thanks for nothing. And then my friend told me that prayer is real simple. Put a chair, an empty chair in front of you and talk to Jesus as if he's right in front of you. And in your faith, in your mind, just imagine that he'll be with you and talk. So I've been doing that sometimes for hours a day. I'll talk. So is that tell me, pastor, is that or priest, is that a prayer? And Brennan said, It uh, he's like, it delights the heart of God. Of course, it's prayer. And he left, gave him, prayed for him, and left. A few days later, the girl came back and said that her father died. And Brennan said, Hey, how did he go? Um, was everything good? And he's she said, You know, he called me in before I left to go get groceries, kissed me on my forehead, told me a funny joke, and then I left and I came back and he had died. But something strange happened right before he died. Right before he died, he crawled out of bed and leaned across on the empty chair and died on the chair with his head on the chair. And gets me every time. I've always I was like, it, you know, it delights the heart of God. It's absolutely prayer. May our prayer life become the kind where we at our last moment get out of our bed to lay our head on the lap of Jesus, knowing that we are his beloved. That's what prayer is. So, on that note, thanks for joining us. Uh, we we love that you've built a community here. Remember, read the word, get into prayer, set some prayer time, get in the church. Get in a local church, put on some worship music, uh, resolve in yourself to be that kind of person that redeems uh culture through simple practices that will shape you for a lifetime. We are so grateful that you're here. Bless you. We love you guys so much. Thank you. Thanks a lot. Thanks for coming, of course. Oh, he'll be back. We'll be back. He'll be back. All right. Bye.