Bible Study Podcast

Reframing Parenting in Your Christian Walk

• Darren Rouanzoin, Angela Halili

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0:00 | 48:15

98% of a worldview is formed by age 12. And if you are handing your kids a device and expecting Sunday morning to do the discipleship, the math does not add up. This episode is a completely unplanned but deeply needed conversation about raising resilient kids — from screen time and sheltering to the culture of your home and how God uses the hardest parenting seasons to form you.

In this episode:
• Why the goal is not to raise kids who are protected from everything but kids who can engage with anything
• The difference between sheltering and discipling — and why both matter
• What Darren asks his kids every time he drives them to school
• Why your instinct to shut it down when your kid asks a hard question is the exact wrong move
• Connection is everything — how to stay the safe place as they get older
• Bring them up in the culture of the Lord — what Ephesians 6 actually says about parenting
• What to do when you realize you are parenting with tools your own parents gave you that are not working

SPONSOR
This series is brought to you with the support of Logos Bible Software — the tool all three of us use when studying Scripture. Whether you want to go deeper in a passage, explore word studies, or dive into commentaries, Logos puts everything in one place. You can try it free for 60 days through our partner link below.

📖 Try Logos free for 60 days: https://logos.com/biblestudypdcst

Hosted by:
• Pastor Darren Rouanzoin — https://www.instagram.com/darrenr
• Angela Halili — https://www.instagram.com/angelahalili
•  Lindy Cofer — https://www.instagram.com/lindy_cofer

#BibleStudy #Parenting #ChristianParenting #Faith #Jesus #BibleStudyPodcast #RaisingKids

TIMESTAMPS
0:00 — Welcome Back and Heart Check-In
5:00 — Lindy's Boys, LeBron, and the Unexpected Parenting Moments of This Week
10:00 — Parker Wrote a Song — Freedom Crew and What God Is Doing in the Next Generation
15:00 — The Hardest Season — Amos and a Year of Night Terrors
20:00 — Prayer, Fasting, and a Community Contending for Your Kid
24:00 — Is Obedience Not the Highest Form of Worship? — Lindy's Story of Two Babies Nine Months Apart
28:00 — The Domestic Monastery — What Parenting Small Kids Has in Common With the Monastic Movement
32:00 — How to Stay Calm When Your Kid Comes Home With a Bad Word36:00 — Connection Before Correction — What Chase Taught Lindy Without Saying a Word
40:00 — How to Raise Kids Who Can Talk to People Who Are Not Like Them44:00 — You Are Not Just Correcting Behavior — You Are Building a Culture48:00 — Bring Them Up in the Culture of the Lord — Ephesians 6 Unpacked52:00 — The Tools You Were Given Are Not Always the Tools You Should Keep
56:00 — Closing: You Do Not Have to Be Perfect — You Just Have to Stay Present

SPEAKER_02

I just feel like when I l I'm at Garden, it's just I've been to some churches that feel almost like like mother.

SPEAKER_00

Like it's just very, anyways, that's for a different day. Different day, yeah. Well, that's good. Well, welcome back to the Bible study podcast. I feel like people want like behind the scenes. What's the chat as the music comes on? Because like we're having deep conversations right now. We're so glad you're back for the Bible study podcast.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I'm Ange.

SPEAKER_00

I'm Darren. And Lindy's in the house. What's up? We're so glad you're back.

SPEAKER_02

Guys, this is so fun. Yeah, we need to do a heart check-in because everybody wants to know how we're feeling, how we're doing. So, how's your heart? How's your life? What's going on?

SPEAKER_03

Like, in regards to the podcast, or just like in general. Yeah. Let's do let's do that. Let's do a check-in.

SPEAKER_00

I didn't know this part.

SPEAKER_03

Oh, let's see here. My boys are like what are their ages? They're six and seven. Yeah. Yes.

SPEAKER_00

Wait, apparently that's witchcraft. So I see. Go ahead and leave your comments.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. My boys being six and seven, I'd love to respond to you. The years they were born. They're amazing. But they're like in that. You get it. So fun. Your youngest is eight. Eight, yeah. He'll be nine and then. So they're close in age. You get it. Wow. Like they're like boys now. Just so like they're so great. They're just all boys. So there are basketball hoops on every door in my house. I like came home last night and I was like, what is this on the table? Chase was like, Oh, it was just a poster. It was like five dollars. My kids are super into LeBron James. Oh, that's true. Chase is not a like, but they're like true SoCal.

SPEAKER_00

Let's go. Kids.

SPEAKER_03

And someone took them to a Lakers game. I'm sure they want to remain nameless, so I won't name them, but and got them really great seats. My children don't know that that's not normal. Wait, no, no, no. Do you know what I mean? They want to be courtside. You do.

SPEAKER_00

I've been in second row for like 12 years. And my kids, my kids are like, I took them when I had to pay, and we're so far up. And I'm like, this is normal.

SPEAKER_01

It's so funny. Your kids want to be courtside.

SPEAKER_00

We've got the high five LeBron James.

SPEAKER_03

They're just the best. They've got the jerseys since the last night. Parker hung up his first LeBron James poster in his room. But they got these, like, we found they they got like the authentic jerseys at the Lakers store at the game. So they're like, whoa. And but we didn't do the shorts, but I found one pair of shorts from the store thrifting. I love thrifting. Oh, amazing. So last night they were fighting over them. This is so great, guys. Chase, super dad. He goes, All right, we've got some Lakers shorts and we've got a LeBron James poster. I don't know if I should share this. And he goes, Option one, I burn them both. I love me in the other room. And I hear him go, mom loved that. Option two. Option two, you guys go in your sister's room because she's not there, and you talked among yourself, amongst yourself, because they were fighting over the shorts.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

And you decide who gets to wear the shorts and what's going to happen with that poster. And if you can come to a calm resolution, I won't burn them. Yeah. And they figured it out. And they did.

SPEAKER_00

Well, but that that is for parenting. I have two, I have two boys, and the sibling thing is helping them navigate their relationship. Giving them tools is so important to cultivate their friendship. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

I'll be honest, I was like pretty like, I think we could be done with three. But as they get older and watching them interact, I'm like, Brightly, girl.

SPEAKER_00

You need another one.

SPEAKER_03

Just give me three months to pray. Yeah. But I we can't leave you hanging. Like, come on. I love it. And because we've adopted, we're like, okay, we for sure think we'll definitely do a fourth. It's just are we adopting or biological? But oh it was this was just last night. Like, I it was hilarious.

SPEAKER_00

How old is Brightley?

SPEAKER_03

She's she'll be two next month.

SPEAKER_00

And honestly, where I'm at in parenting mode is grieving, not having littles. Oh because like Alex had a really rough pregnancy, C-sections, postpartum. Like she was high had hyperemes, like so she was sick the whole time. Oh like it was brutal, like IVs all week. And I I'm grieving not having the littles. Like, and it's life is easier in some ways, it's way harder emotionally and mentally. Because now I'm dealing with like that, like parenting gets real as they their will is formed, and they don't do what you tell them to do, and they have a strong personality because you've raised them in an identity where they believe their voice matters. And my little 12-year-old, almost you know, 18. He I love him, but he he uh it's a different world, and Amos is a force to be reckoned with in general. So two things, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Do you feel the same, Lindy? Like your sons, they've stepped into their identity, they're becoming little men, and it's like so much harder to control them. It's it's different.

SPEAKER_03

It's like I feel like we're so blessed by like they're like parenting classes that have been offered to us and people we can ask questions to, and so it's not easy by any means, but we do feel so covered. I will say that that is like such a blessing, is we don't feel like if it is really hard, like, oh, we're alone, we know there's people we can go to. And I would say that's been a game changer. Wow, huge for mental health, to be honest, of just like, wow, we're not alone, we can figure this out. Because I our oldest, we I always say this any podcast, anything, his story will be his to tell one day. I don't ever share it publicly. Wow, but he's got a story, you know, he was adopted out of foster care, and so there's there's dynamics that come with that, even in their relationship. And it's, you know, as they get older and they understand things, because we've always age appropriately talked about adoption. He gets it, he loves it. Yeah, and so even as we're praying about the fourth, it's like we're praying like should the mommy be in or should the baby be in mommy's belly, or is it another baby we take in from another mommy's belly that God wants in our family? And they get that, they understand it. Wow. But as they get older, also, there's been a few jabs that we're like, oh no, you don't say that.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

And they have experienced, you know, oh yeah, some mom and dad wrath, you know, where like, oh, they get it, they understand. Yeah, but it like how their wills can start to like in a moment of tension or argument, they use that. Oh my god. But it is crazy to see their wills form, their decisions form their style.

SPEAKER_02

Can I just say like what this probably and I'm obviously I'm not a parent, but to any parents watching, this is probably so comforting to them to know that like two a woman of God and a man of God, you're raising your kids in a biblical, like home, a godly home, and your kids are saying things that they shouldn't say, and your kids are true. And I just feel like it's so freeing. I can't imagine how much shame parents must feel sometimes when they watch their kids do things or misbehave. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

So it's really good for you guys to be honest. Oh, I think honesty and parenting is so key because it can be one of the most isolating things. Yeah. If you do get buried in the shame of, am I a bad parrot? Yeah. Or like my when the boys were toddlers, my oldest. This is this isn't like, oh, I hope he doesn't hear this. He could hear this, he'd be fine, he'd be like, I know. He was the hitter.

SPEAKER_00

He was the kids. So then you had to navigate that community don't take your kid to the party because you might hit.

SPEAKER_03

Exactly. Wow.

SPEAKER_00

So that became a discussion, I'm sure.

SPEAKER_03

I'm sure anything you're imagining right now, that happened.

SPEAKER_00

That's my my kids. My kids weren't hitters. My Amos was I'll let him share it, but let's just say he invented words that he thought he invented that were not wait. That is like there was a season where he got gold stars for not saying certain cuss words that he invented. And and I love this about his story. I'll never forget driving to flying to Hawaii.

SPEAKER_01

I love it.

SPEAKER_00

And he had a sore throat, and he he's he reacts, he's like me. And he I've got two guava juices for him. And he would drink, and he had like like a sore throat with like sores in his throat, and so he'd drink, and he would be like, and he would say a bad word out loud on the plane, and all the people around me are like, what's going on? I was dying. I'm like, I'm like, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry. And there's like a granola parent. I've got like iPads and everything in front of them, and like a granola parent, like, all right, let's play tic-tac-toe. And I'm like, watch as many shows as you guys.

SPEAKER_01

This is so good. That's so free for so many people in a world. Sometimes I see things on TikTok, and I'm like, oh my gosh, I hope I'm that kind of parent. Like, I hope it's gonna be that easy. Like, look back. The parenting social media thing is more.

SPEAKER_03

You'll never measure up. You'll never measure. It's like you gotta turn that thing off. But I will say this, and I know you could say this about your boys. You get these glimmers of like, and something Matt and Laura Nelson, they pastor circuit writers, they gave us some of the best advice in parenting that we have held on to. And it is know what God's asking you to focus on in certain seasons. Wow. Or they will just always feel in trouble. They will always feel like they're doing it wrong. And we've done that, and it has been so helpful. Like, you know, Parker is a leader. I mean, talk about just you came out of the womb leading. That is that boy. Like, if there's a park thing, there's something happening, he's the king, he's leading the charge. You're just like, cool. That's just that's that's what's gonna happen. Yes. Parent him differently, and also know that the shadow side of that is he can be very conquering. Yeah. But the person who gets the the force of that the most is Zion, you know? So it's like we locked in on that for a season. Instead of just like, oh, this among other things, work it out. We locked in for like four months on like, here's what conquering means. Yeah, where he understood it. And he came so far in that season that that was some of the best advice given to us. But then you get these glimmers of like, hey, mom, I just wrote this song. Oh, show it to me.

SPEAKER_00

Beautiful.

SPEAKER_03

Are you kidding me?

SPEAKER_00

Little worshipper.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, and you're like, You just wrote a full song, like without my help. And I told him, I was like, I reached out to one of our circuit writer producers, and I was like, Hey, no, I'm gonna make Parker work for the money to pay you to record his song. Wow, and so he's recording a song this summer.

SPEAKER_00

And I was I wanna help sponsor it. I'll give Terry. Yeah, 100%. Oh, I would love to sponsor it. Are you hitting us? Oh my gosh, I forget to sponsor it. Can I show you guys something? Yeah, let's go.

SPEAKER_03

You asked for an update, and I really I'm giving you guys the newsletter. We want this. So good. We want this.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, we're like 20 minutes in.

SPEAKER_03

Okay, and then we'll we'll go back. But they've been so Zion, he it catalyzed Zion. So he's like, Well, I've I've kind of written a song too. No, so I'm trying to keep my cool guys. Like, I'm just like, okay, yeah, yeah. And inside I'm like, yeah. Thank you, Jesus. So like, okay, because I also didn't know, like, what are you writing? Yeah. You know, I didn't know if they were gonna be like, just to be honest, like, come on, fart, fart, fart, farty, fart. Like that would be totally something that they would write. Yeah. And so they came up, they're like, we want the word freedom in it. We know that. And I was like, okay, you're starting a band with the word freedom in it. So they're they're between freedom sound or freedom crew. If this makes the podcast, maybe people can vote in the conference. Yeah, but freedom. So they, I was like, Well, let's just do this, let's just put it into chat and say, like, if you did Freedom Crew, and you and he was like, I want, but I want to make like really cool shirts we can give away to people. I was like, okay, what is going on in your mind right now?

SPEAKER_00

This kid's thinking, like, he's got a brand, he's got merch. No, oh my wait, you gotta let it happen.

SPEAKER_03

So before they went to bed last night, he was like, I think Freedom Crew. So he spoke into chat what he wanted.

SPEAKER_00

Jesus, freedom, worship, mission, family.

SPEAKER_03

Oh, freedom crew lullaby. So that I was like, how can we include Brightly? And they were like, lullaby's.

SPEAKER_00

And I was like survival starts young. Are you kidding me?

SPEAKER_03

Isn't that awesome? Worship without limits, like that is so all right, Freedom Crew.

SPEAKER_00

We're just dropping it here. You heard first. This is insane podcast. Let's go.

SPEAKER_03

So, our friend Paul, he does a lot of production with Asa, Spencer, and Circle Riders. He's gonna produce so good. This is so good I know.

SPEAKER_00

Oh my gosh, you're such a good thing. That was a big heart check. Lots going on. Lots of heart check. How are you doing? I'm so good.

SPEAKER_02

Oh no, I don't have to. What do you want to share? No update. Flying out to Maine on Friday. Oh, wow. The huge week. I've filmed five times this week. For tours? No, I filmed in Atlanta with somebody yesterday.

SPEAKER_00

Who was it?

SPEAKER_02

Philip Anthony Mitchell. Oh god. Yeah, it was amazing. No, the best, the best. And then going to Maine on Friday for a speaking event, Miyanari's.

SPEAKER_00

You have multiple or just one? Just one. Great. Just one. Preaching the gospel.

SPEAKER_02

Can we talk about their new song?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it's so good.

SPEAKER_02

First board from the coming. It's like a battle cry.

SPEAKER_00

Let's go.

SPEAKER_02

So special.

SPEAKER_00

I love it.

SPEAKER_02

Like, I just want to go see in the room.

SPEAKER_00

My only update before we jump in, because I think we should talk about the Bible while we're here.

SPEAKER_02

Yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Last night, this is like perfect transition from like boy stuff. Like, I don't know how many times you've been to the hospital. Like, my kids have gotten stitches, broken bones, concussions. Like, it's just normal. They climb everything. They like they're out. And like I see young parents, and there's such an over like protection in Southern California. I think, I don't know. That's my context. But it's like we just let them roam, let them break their arm, let them be free. Ezra was taking a shower last night and like turned really quick, and there's like an edge, sliced his knee. Had to go and we had to wake him up because we like I like got to go to the C CVS and get stuff. But then the doctor's like, he needs stitches. So he got three staples last night at 11 o'clock in the middle.

SPEAKER_03

Are you kidding? Like, but like if you have boys, it's just normal. Any of my friends watching this when you asked me that question are laughing right now.

SPEAKER_00

I know. It's just normal.

SPEAKER_03

There's an urgent care like close to our house that I'm like, give me the glue. Yeah. Give me the glue. We actually come here.

SPEAKER_00

We super glued Ezra's ear because the dog bit it randomly, like got close and like his tooth and it gave a like right in half, like cut it in half. We just super glued it, which is why it was invented. Super glue was invented for that in World War II. Side note, you're welcome.

SPEAKER_03

So that's I got the glue then.

SPEAKER_00

I could be wrong. Someone's like, that's not true.

SPEAKER_03

That's what I believe. Oh, okay. You'll love this. Matt Redmond, Matt Marr. They were doing this. It was like a few months ago. They're doing a songwriting thing in San Diego. Super honored to be invited. Like amazing. I'm like, sorry, guys, can't come. I'm at the ER, I got some coins, gotta make sure they're not getting stuck in the esophagus. And that it was just so funny because I'm so grateful they both have boys. So they're like, we get it.

SPEAKER_00

We get it.

SPEAKER_03

See ya. I'm like, see guys. See.

SPEAKER_00

It's crazy.

SPEAKER_03

Or we Parker just did his Dr. Amon brain scan the night before.

SPEAKER_00

Amos did it.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. Yes. The night before.

SPEAKER_00

Hits his head.

SPEAKER_03

Yep, hits his head, has to get thankfully not stitches, could do glue. Okay. So I'm like calling the offices and like, hey, I'm pretty sure he has a concussion. They're like, well.

SPEAKER_00

Perfect time.

SPEAKER_03

Perfect timing. Yeah. And I was like, oh, perfect. Okay, great. But that's boy. That's when they did the scan.

SPEAKER_00

Like, did all the day after, yeah. Oh my gosh. Wow, that's so odd.

SPEAKER_03

His results were a miracle.

SPEAKER_00

Eye opening to see.

SPEAKER_03

Eye opening.

SPEAKER_00

Because that changed the game for Amos. That's I mean his journey was radically changed by it.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. We'll talk about it. Okay things publicly to protect his story, but now you get it.

SPEAKER_00

Isn't that crazy?

SPEAKER_03

We were like, oh, you weren't fighting to eat sugar out of rebellion. It was calming that part of your brain.

SPEAKER_02

We were like, we're so sorry, Parker. I'm literally gonna start crying. No, it's so yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Well, like when Amos last year, so I took him out on Monday with two dads and Ezra, Amos, and then our two friends, Finn and Brooklyn. They're like Ezra's age, and we do dude night. Oh, so fun. We even got sushi and went on a boat around Naples, and like the kids are jumping off the boat, like super fun. And I'm like, this is Monday night. Like this, your your childhood is so special. Yeah. And they were like, we're asking questions, like, what are you leaving this this school year? What do you want to take with you? What are you proud of that you've had to do this year? What's something you're proud of of yourself? And Amos answers, or Ezra answers, Brooklyn answers, and then Amos goes, Amos is eight. I learned how to overcome anxiety and fear.

SPEAKER_01

I'm gonna lose my and and then Zach.

SPEAKER_00

That's what I mean. Those are the glimpses. My two best friends are in the boat. They're like, What what what do you mean? Explain that. And he just articulates how he couldn't oh Lord. How he couldn't go to class in his homeschool co-op two days a week because he was afraid and mom would have to stay. And and he learned to overcome his fear.

SPEAKER_03

He's sharing. I'm like, what? That's what I'm talking about. Those moments. You just go.

SPEAKER_00

But we got the the Dr. Eamon scan and we saw his brain, and he's like, hey, he's he's got all this lit up. So he walks into a room, he's got he sees everything. You need to parent him differently. Wow. He's not just you know thinking of himself. He literally can see he's he is gonna be exhausted. And it was just so we learned.

SPEAKER_03

If you've done a Dr. Eamon brain scan, you know, if the the white part is where there's like activity. So I would imagine like they tell us that and then they show us his results, and I was like, oh, yeah, your entire brain is white.

SPEAKER_02

Well, it also has so much grace for people who like we look at people who struggle with sin and who struggle with their mental health, and we look at people who are like they're a mess, they're they have all these issues, and it's what you said made me so emotional. Like doing that activity calmed that part of his brain that was active. And it's like, how often do people it just gives you so much compassion for 100% for sure?

SPEAKER_00

I feel like there's something happening. We've never done this. Should we just stay parenting contact?

SPEAKER_03

Like, this is like how we went on a buddy trail that led to a parent changing up.

SPEAKER_00

Should we just change change? Well, and if you are, I will say, if you're a young parent, my pastor, Pastor Bill, who's coming on in a couple weeks, epic. We're gonna do a whole thing. He always told us that having being a parent of preschool age kids, so young kids, preschool age and young, right, is the hardest season of spiritual life as as humans. And and there's a book that I always recommend to young parents, and it's The Domestic Monastery by Ronald Rollheiser, and it's a short book that frames parenting as a season similar to the monastic movement in the desert. And he essentially says, Look, a the monastic movement of going into the desert where your time is no longer your own, the bell rings and you go to work, the bell rings and you go to a corporate time of prayer, the bell rings and you go make food. It's a reminder that life is not yours and you're called to serve the Lord and others. Well, every mom and dad knows that they're in a when they you have a little kid, it's like the kid cries in the middle of the night. Your sleep is not your own, your time is not your own. And now you are being formed in a crucible, you're being formed in a fire of selfless life-giving moments. Where like when Ezra was born, Ezra did not take a bottle and he would wake, he would feed every hour and a half. Like Alex went literally crazy. It was like she was up every hour and a half, he would feed, and for six months until he was sleep trained and all that stuff. And it was, it was a very hard season, but like we learned like parenting can be trauma to a lot of a lot of people. Wow. And I actually wanted to say, I think there is an issue today where parenting is a trauma to the self-absorbed life.

SPEAKER_02

Wow.

SPEAKER_00

And they see it as that. Like there's a generation that's been like, well, I don't get my time. Like, no, you are given the gift to steward this life, this precious life. So I just want to recommend domestic monastery and find community. That is so good.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I know we need to wrap this up.

SPEAKER_00

But we could just keep going.

SPEAKER_03

Listen, I can't wait to read this book. Because that was my because I adopted first, it was a very interesting transition into parenthood.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_03

I said, I have like the nine months of like, it was like word of the Lord, the Lord is asking us to do this. We got approved. And when you get approved in Southern California, let me tell you something, you're gonna call that day immediately because the need is so great for these children, and it was like quick and awesome. And then we didn't know that we were all so pregnant, and so that's why they're nine months apart. And so that's gotta be so fun. It was basically I remember having a moment where I'll get so raw here. I was like, it's over. Everything, every word, everything I've built, every hope of doing music. And thankfully, I knew I had just recorded an album driven by love and it was coming out. So I was like, great, this is it. This is it's done. Like, and I was throwing myself a pity party. I'll say that. I was like, Lord, everything you spoke, everything you led me to do, it's gone now. Yes. And I was throwing myself a pity party, and that still small voice that is obedience, not the highest form of worship. Wow. Did I not lead you into this season? And it was like the mercy of the father drenched me, like as if I was drowning. Wow. And I was like, Oh, I am right where I need to be. And I'm telling you, that moment with God changed. I go, if I would not have had that moment, I would have probably, I would have had such a wrong view of parenting. Yes as following while following Jesus, I would have made a lot of bad decisions.

SPEAKER_00

100%. Well, I wanna, I just wanna say this is I think we'll just go with where the Lord has led the conversation. We don't, we've never done it this way. Who cares? Let's figure it out. We're making this up as we go. I I found this quote. I'm gonna, this is so good. Yeah for the moms out there.

SPEAKER_03

Yes.

SPEAKER_00

Like this is from Domestic Monastery. The mother who stays home with small children, except Experiences a very real withdrawal from the world.

SPEAKER_04

Wow.

SPEAKER_00

Her existence is certainly monastic. Parenting is a form of discipleship, a daily call to die to oneself for the sake of others. We do not need to leave our homes to find God. We need to find God in our homes. The ordinary tasks we perform at home are not interruptions of our spiritual life, but rather they are the very stuff of which our spiritual life is made. True spirituality is about being present to the moment wherever we are and recognizing the sacredness of the ordinary.

SPEAKER_03

Yes. Yes.

SPEAKER_00

So, like this, but this is so big because you you're in it, right? Like it is, it is so hard. And it is something you have to experience. Yeah, of course. Dads do not experience what moms experience. I just, I mean, no matter what. Like there's very little I can do when Ezra was breastfeeding, or when he would only be comforted by Alex. I'm I'll get up and change the diapers and all those things. Eventually that goes away, but it is a real withdrawal from the world. It it you I was just talking to Janae on our staff, and her her daughter just started sleeping through the night. She said to me yesterday at our staff meeting, I feel like I got my life back. Why? Because she's been having no sleep.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And that is a form of torture.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

That is a form of torture.

SPEAKER_02

Can I see you guys a question? How do you how how do parents not like actually genuinely lose their minds when they're not sleeping?

SPEAKER_00

You do lose your mind.

SPEAKER_02

I do. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

You what you do, like here's the same. Here's what I always say. You'll never get life back to what it was. Yeah. You learn to live in a deficit.

SPEAKER_03

Wow. Right? Yeah. And I will say this, it's like, oh, yes. And I thankfully, like we prayed, and I had an amazing girl, Emily Stubblefield. She's married now. I don't even know her new last name, but she was a blessing. She helped us, but it was because our boys were so little. We don't have parents here. And I can confidently say, like, if I didn't have her, I probably would have gone crazy because it would almost have been easier to have twins. But it was like every season was prolonged nine months because it was just back to back to back. And I loved it because I had that moment with the Lord. I embraced it. I'm in. We're doing this. We took them with us everywhere. Like those boys, you should see their passports. It's amazing. Stampeding it. And they love it now. They're like, yeah, check out my passport. You know, and it's so incredible. But at the same time, it, yeah, you have to. That's what I said. That's what I meant when I said when I looked at Chase with tears in my eyes. Like the friendship I've built with God over the last 13 years means more to me now than it's ever meant before. Yeah. Because it's there and it's real. Oh. In the midnight hours, in the, you know, and I I've never released this song, but I had to like write a song about it to release my emotions to the Lord. Wow. And it's called I Have Found This Calling to Be Your Mother. And that's how I process with the Lord. Like I have to know this is my calling. Mother's Day next year, it's being released. That's good. It's so simple, but I just I literally sat at my piano in the thick of the boys being like 10 months and 19 months. Like that's hard. That's crazy line. Some people go, someone asked me, How did you do it? And I was like, I don't know. And I I kind of feel like I blacked it out a little bit. I probably did black it out.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, is there a level? Would you what do you guys think about the idea of like surviving seasons? Is that okay to survive with Jesus for a season, or must you always be thriving? Like, is it okay to survive a season of parenting?

SPEAKER_00

Yes.

SPEAKER_02

Okay.

SPEAKER_00

I think there are lots of seasons you'll survive where you have nothing to give. And all you do is show up faithfully, even out of frustration, anger, and it could be resentment in your heart, but you still showed up. And the Lord uses it. Wow.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. I I think it's the reality of having small kids is you just go like you have to find that and it's supernatural. You cannot find it with I I without the Lord. And I go, how do I don't know how people parent without Jesus? Yeah, 100%. Yeah. Because the two things the Lord spoke to me that changed my whole pursuit in parenting is obedience not the highest form of worship? Like just this the all-out surrender, which we'll talk about. But and it just re-it was like my language with the Lord, how he spoke that to me. He knew what that meant to me. Not a performance, but a my all, my all for you. And it was the Lord saying, This is the all I want right now. And I was like, Yes. But then the Lord said, the same way you viewed the nations and the next generation, I want you. This is after I had brightly. He's like, if you will put that energy into these three kids, the nations will be your inheritance. Well I was like, that's all I needed. Yeah. That I know my time with them isn't me missing ministry hours. He has my time with them is my ministry hours because I'm raising them up to change the world. I'm raising them up to sing the next songs that will break chains off of people, that will help people see Jesus. And honestly, that part, not intentionally. That's new. Like our kids wanting to write music like that, and like what in the world? But they're like, so with our boys, there are parts, and and Darren could speak into this more because he has kids older than us. It's like, wow, you get to see the fruit of seasons where you were surviving. Oh, yeah. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00

Like I think, yeah, like, first of all, when you become a parent, you have no idea what you're doing. I I I read, I study, I read so many parenting books. Nothing prepared me. Nothing prepared me for holding Ezra. And it was it like it was this dramatic moment for me when I held Ezra the first time. But then that relationship doesn't form. I mean, you're connected to your kids, but it was when he was 18 months, and now there's interaction, and each stage you learn from mistakes. And that was the thing. One thing I'll say is no, there's no perfect parent. So get rid of perfection. Like, yeah, and each child has to be parented differently. So there's not a formula for parenting. And anyone that tries to tell you that, I just have to say that is a lie. There's a philosophy that can help you. There's theology, there's a way of doing things. Like, and I will say I've learned most of my parenting from my wife because she is a she is a saint with parenting. She's homeschooled our boys, so she's taught our kids how to read. Wow. Like she's taught them everything. Like my wife is an incredible woman who saw, like this high capacity woman who felt from the Lord, like, I'm gonna do this. And and she, and I don't think everyone should do that, but that was her calling. That was what we've done. But there are stages that are very hard. And and when you're in it, you don't think you're gonna get out of it. And you do get out of it. And you're like, like last year, what Amos walked through was so insane. He he had this crippling anxiety out of nowhere. This fear he was having night terrors. He was, he just turned eight. He was having night terrors. He'd wake up 10 to 12 times at night. He had he had slept since he was four months old through the night. Like this was the new thing. He had a fear of us being gone. He couldn't, he wouldn't be watched by my mom, which she watched the kids all the time. Like, wouldn't go to wouldn't go to church, wouldn't go to school, like school, like the two days a week he would go to this homeschool co-op. It was this terrible, terrible thing. And it it occupied every part of our life. Like you it was disabled.

SPEAKER_02

We were on Sundays with the house. I was I was holding Amos.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I would go to meetings. We'd have meetings, and Amos would be with me. And when Alex was gone having to work or something, and I remember being like, This is this is the worst thing. And I'll tell you what, and I just want to encourage people. Yeah, I prayed and fasted for my boy. And I'm not saying this is the reason. I I prayed and I fasted. And and as Alex sought the Lord, we got help. Like we went to Dr. Amon, we changed his diet, we invited people to pray. We anointed, I anointed his bed every single night. Michael Kuliana sent us crosses that he sleeps with every night.

SPEAKER_01

Wow. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Like I'm getting calls from Pastor Michael around, you know, in Florida going, Hey, I've been carrying, how's how's Amos doing? Like he was contending for my kid.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And and there was a season where I would wake up really early and I would seek the Lord on his behalf. And the Lord gave me this picture of like a father creates a tent over the house, creates a shelter, and your family gets to come under it. And I just saw and Amos would be the first one that would wake up and he would come out and he had no idea. I I'm seeking the Lord on his behalf. And yet I have all these people. And then all of a sudden, he's at school, he's at church, he's on Monday telling how he's overcome anxiety.

SPEAKER_01

He's overcoming anxiety.

SPEAKER_00

So yeah, you can thrive seasons, you can just barely hang on for life and just know, just bring Jesus into that.

SPEAKER_02

Can I ask you guys one more question about parenting? Okay. So this is something that I wonder all the time. How do you raise your kids in a way where you protect their innocence while also not making them so sheltered that they're weird or that they don't know how to communicate with people who aren't like them? Me coming from the world and coming from a life of trauma and sin and all the things has left me with scars and a lot to work through, but it's also given me an ability to literally talk to anybody. Right. I can relate to anybody, I can be there for people. And I see some, I'll watch people who have grown up in a really sheltered Christian family, and it's beautiful because they have their innocence, they don't have the same scars, but they can't really talk to non-believers. They don't know, they could never be friends with a non-believer. They don't know how to relate. So, how do you raise your kids in a way that again protects their innocence, but also allows them to know that there's a life beyond what they know?

SPEAKER_00

I I can go off on this. I think our like the reason we homeschooled was in the season our kids were entering in school in Long Beach in particular, was it's a different world than what we grew up in, right? So the school systems, depending on where you live in Southern California, are very different. And there's ideologies being pressed in school systems, but there's ideologies being broadcasted on Netflix, on Disney, on Amazon Prime, on YouTube, on social media. And never before do have we had access to this kind of cultural ideology, ideological influence that's shaping the mind and value systems of our kids, right? So all of that's out there. I'll also add, Satan is doing the work to direct things, right? So so what was going to school when we were growing up, it's like you could go and be bullied in this, you know, school cafeteria. Nowadays, kids take that cafeteria home in their phone. They take the social world into their phone. So it you could leave it at one point, you can't leave it now. It's everywhere. So that's one dynamic among a thousand dynamics. The other element that I just want to highlight is it wasn't these, these like back in the day, it was like, okay, you you grow up in a home, you get influenced in church, you get influenced by your peers. There wasn't this global awareness that we now have in our in our devices, where the global worldview is available to us. That that's that's shaping eight, nine, 10, 11, 12-year-olds. That's so real. So so if a what I see with parents is they get to middle age, the kids, they give their kids a phone way too early. I personally am not giving my kids a phone until they're 15 or 16. That's the rule. They won't have access to social media. There, there's limitations on screens. There's a thousand reasons for that. We oversee all of that. We are called to steward their their lives. And so, yes, we have a say over their friendships, we have a say over what they're involved in, but they are given access to certain elements of the world. They have lots of friends, they're part of our church, there's lots of community they're engaged in, but we do want to shelter them from ideologies which are around them all the time. We want to shelter, we want to keep them protected. And I'll just say this, and I I this is gonna take over because I'm very passionate about this. Parents need to be intentional. Yeah, they need to be involved in their kids' lives. Yeah. The moment you hand them a device, their social world opens up to text messages, their YouTube, social media, it now their world is being formed by by by algorithms and and things that you can't curate for them, right? And I'm not saying you curate everything, but you should protect them, right? And the influence that you have decreases because now the influence goes to their peers, which is a natural thing, right? It's a natural thing to have peer become the influence around 12, 13, 14, they're looking outward to define their world. And if you haven't done the work when they were five, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, eleven, twelve, I think the statistic is like 98% of a worldview is formed by the age of 12. And so if you're just handing them devices, if you're just sending them to school and not having conversations, expecting the church one and a half hours on Sunday to develop them, right? It's not going to form them into the image of God in the way that you want. So most of my parenting is forming them in this way. So we have lots of conversations about all those things all the time. And the goal isn't to create weird kids, but I will say the argument to socialize your kids that is just the dumbest argument. Love it. Look at what socialization has done to the world. Like the church has to do a better job of raising up resilient disciples.

SPEAKER_03

That's right.

SPEAKER_00

And a resilient disciple doesn't happen because parents hand them over to kids' ministry. It happens because you disciple your kids. Yes, yes. Right. So great. They're watching you lead worship, they're watching you read scripture, they're watching you quote scripture, they're watching you make decisions about the LeBron James thing.

SPEAKER_02

So good.

SPEAKER_00

With a view of our value is we share, our value is the kingdom. And you're you're training them in those things to make those compromises to serve one another. I was driving the kids over to school, to the homeschool two days ago, the co-op, and I was like, hey guys, my conversation is always like, what did you learn? What did you laugh about? Yep. Are there ways that you led this week? And I was saying, I was leading them to school, driving them. I was like, what's one intentional way you can serve your peers today? I wanted in their imagination to go to school and and thinking, how can I serve?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And what we got them to discuss was like, okay, maybe you pick up someone's trash after lunch. Like that's the way. But what am I trying to do? I'm trying to get them to see that you're walking in as a cultural shaper.

SPEAKER_04

Yep.

SPEAKER_00

You're gonna shape their culture. I'm not saying here's a lecture on how to architect culture. It's what what are what what's one way that you can serve? That's so that's a way you're teaching them to engage in the principles. I I don't know if this is good. I don't know if it is good.

SPEAKER_02

Yes, it is.

SPEAKER_00

And I've learned so much from my wife on this. So she's the one that's helped me understand this and Pastor Bill as well.

SPEAKER_03

So that was so helpful. I will say, because my kids, the boys are getting older, but they're still young. Yeah. And I think we're in this threshold right now.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, it's you're it's gonna happen so.

SPEAKER_03

Yes, yes, yes. And it just something that has been really like fun to kind of watch the boys and partner with them and like, okay, how are you gonna respond to that? Is they're very involved in sports. Yeah. So they're out there, they're we're in the community. Chase coaches 90% of their teams. I think he didn't coach one season. Wow. And so we're in there, we love the families we get to be with. They all know what Chase and I don't do, even if they're not believers. You know, they'll love it, oh, I love your post, you know. Oh, amazing. I'm so glad you watched it. And but then the flip side, can I I'll just go really raw, is there was a uh Chase's best friend, Taylor Sutz. Yeah, we we all try to, yeah, with the scent. Yeah, yeah. We all like we love going to Eden's games because he's a little bit older and the boys love watching. So if we can make it, we do. And we were they were at one of his games, and it was like Eden wasn't playing or something. So they'll just like go off and play with kids, and they came home and they were like, Mom, someone taught me this word. Beep.

SPEAKER_00

And I was like, I'm used to react like you said it. What?

SPEAKER_03

Chase Chase looked at me like, you better stay calm, right? You know, because I was about to be like, life is over. Who taught you that word? I worked so hard to shelter you and keep you from this, you know. And I just saw Chase's eyes, like he goes, Oh, buddy, yes, that is a real word. Yes. And whoever taught you that, they weren't taught that actually we don't say that word. Because here's what it actually means. It's kind of a dumb meeting, anyways. But here's why we don't say that word. And Chase explained it and we moved on with our day. And it was like boom. Like the next day. Yes. He was like, Yeah, but like, I'll just be really honest. I was prone to like, if you ever say that again, yeah, yeah, you will lose switch for the rest of your life, you know. And Chase is like, What are you doing?

SPEAKER_00

Like, wait, this is this is such a great teachable moment for so many. Because what I want to say is I have those reactions. And Ezra has had a lot of those moments where he's asking me about this, and I'm like, Who are you? Like, I immediately Who told you that? Yeah, I'm like, who is this person? And Alex, and then my other friend, Daniel, who's got a he's a neighbor, a close friend in our church. He's got a 14-year-old that's in our life and a little older than Ezra, and he's a great kid, Brooklyn. But Daniel has done dude nights weekly with Brooklyn forever. Like they just hang out. And he talked about what he's tried to do. The goal is to like cultivate connection with Brooklyn's heart. And that, what you're doing by not shutting it down. Thank you so much for telling, like, you're creating an environment where your kid is telling you vulnerable things. He knows it's wrong. What's this word? And it's only gonna increase, like they're gonna be exposed. And if you as a parent can like create connection with your child where they feel safe to say that's this thing happened. Like Ezra and I are having lots of conversations right now, so many conversations, adult conversations, like leading him into becoming a biblically masculine young man, right? Oh, come on, and all questions he can ask all, and I love it. And he's bringing them to me, he's curious. And and my job isn't to be like shutting it down when it's like like you can't, and we're talking about good bad good images and bad images, and the world is exposing you to bad images. And and I'm like, I just want to be the space that you come and ask.

SPEAKER_03

This is where you're learning.

SPEAKER_00

This is what like because I didn't have that.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I've heard I never had that. Yeah, I I what I follow so many parenting Instagrams and you know, biblical parenting stuff. And the thing I see the most is that one of the worst things you can do is react in a way that's like, I can't believe no, no, no, that's so bad. The bet like if you stay calm in those moments, they read it as safe. I can come back again.

SPEAKER_00

And I have been the perfect example of how not to react so many times. Totally. And I have a partner, my wife Alex, she's corrected me in those moments, and and I've learned, and I and now I'm like, okay, I he's talking. I gotta, I'm like, breathe, breathe, don't breathe, have a happy face. Have a happy face, too. Like, because I'm my instinct is to overreact. Like I was taught by my dad to be overreactive and angry, and I've had to over I'm I'm not perfect. I'm still learning those things.

SPEAKER_03

And it is amazing when you have because it's similar. Like sometimes I'll watch Chase how he, I'm like, he knows what to do right now. I need to calm down and back off. Yes, but then I'll watch how he parents, and I'm like, why did I just get healed watching? That's crazy.

SPEAKER_00

Because he's helping you parent that little you.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. I'm like, my inner child is being healed watching my husband parent our boys. Having changing the mother brightly as our like, because I'm like, wow, like I am watching what's working. Yeah. And his initial responses are different. Now I've paused and I've learned and I've gotten a lot better. Yes. My biggest thing is I I would yell. I was a yeller, and Chase one day was like, You're not gonna do that anymore. You're not gonna do that anymore.

SPEAKER_00

But that was the tool you were given. So you were given that as a child, you're given that by your parents, probably. Most I'm not gonna, whatever. You learned it. Love him, honor it. So you learned yelling. And so the tool you had, and this is the problem with speaking of biblical masculinity, men are taught a couple of emotions anger and fear or anxiety.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And and they're rarely taught sadness and and disappointment. They're rarely taught the the complexity of the human emotions. We're taught like what is appropriate is to be angry. And and sometimes women are taught this as well, depending on the household. And we parent with the tools we've been given. And I just want to say all the listeners, there is hope to change. Yeah. And I believe that. Like there is a Holy Spirit who wants to fill your life to help you heal the wounds that you have from your childhood. Yeah. And if you become a parent and you're reacting, you're overreacting, there is a way where Jesus can help you right now break that pattern so that your kids don't have to have it. Absolutely. One of the best things, like I make a lot of mistakes. I'm not a perfect parent. I'm a at times I'm I mess up. My I last night, I'll share this. Last night, Ezra got hurt. I shared the story. I drove to CVS and I was driving to CVS because my first question when I saw him was like, Oh, I'm so sorry. What did you do?

SPEAKER_02

What did you do? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And I drove off and like we're taking it. And it wasn't angry. I was like, but like I was walking into CVS and I was like, did he feel loved? This is what I felt. So I drive back home. He's bandaged up by Alex and I lay him, I put him, I put him to bed every night and we have a little routine, and I love it. And I kiss him and I said, Hey, Ezra, I just want to make sure when I ask you what you did, the bigger question I have is, did you feel loved by me? He's like, Dad, of course I felt loved. Like, what dad leaves in the middle of the night to CVS to get bandages?

SPEAKER_04

CVS.

SPEAKER_00

But like But that little thing, like where you feel the conviction of the spirit, just to double check. How many times have you just like recorrected? There is this passage I want to read. Hold on.

SPEAKER_01

It's too. This is so sweet.

SPEAKER_00

Children obey your parents and the Lord, for this is right. Honor your father and mother, which is the first commandment with a promise, so that it may go well with you and that you may enjoy life, long life on earth. Listen to this fathers, and I'll just say this all right. Fathers and mothers, do not exasperate your children. Instead, bring them up in the training and instruction of the Lord. The the Greek word, and I'm gonna use this. I love it because it's logos. You hold this down and you can learn that the word training and instruction is a Essentially like a gymnasium, a culture of the Lord. Bring them up in a culture of the Lord. Like it's raising them up in a way that is like a culture that has values and beliefs and practices and a worldview. Fathers, raise them up.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

In the way. So, so what is how do you parent? Well, in how you do breakfast together and how you drive to the church, and not just the worship songs, but how you drive when you're late. How you do sporting events and who gets to come over to your house and have hospitality in your home. Yeah. What you do to celebrate parents and all the things, the culture of the Lord.

SPEAKER_02

One last question and then we're done. Does okay, you know the first child syndrome thing, like where it's just like usually the first child is struggles the most because they you become a better parent kid by kid as you go along. Have you guys ever heard that? Yeah. Do you think that there's a reality to that? Do you become a better parent because you realize maybe what you messed up the first couple of times?

SPEAKER_00

I'll speak for myself. I, as my kids are getting older, I'm getting better at parenting each of them. I wouldn't say, I would say they both get variations because Amos is so different than Ezra. Yeah. So very like my parenting is has to be different with each kid. But what I've learned now has been applicable to both of them. But I wish I had some of those tools with Ezra when he was two, three, four, five. Totally. Um that I developed when he was six, seven, eight, you know.

SPEAKER_03

So I think as they get older, we've found like connection is everything.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

So that's number one for us. Like even like in the correction, in all the things, like that, it starts or ends with real connection. Oh, it's so good. In what we've learned, it's like, yeah, is brightly getting a more seasoned parent. Absolutely. You know what I mean? Yeah. That's just unavoidable. That's like that's and it's just funny because yeah, how we parent her. We know now, oh no, you need to be corrected at 23 months. Because in your minds, you think there's still a baby. No. And that's what we learned with the boys. It was like they some things we didn't correct early enough, you it just gets prolonged. So for her, it's actually like we're setting you up more for a win because you actually are gonna know these boundaries. Like, and girls didn't know this, a lot different than boys, didn't know that at 23 months. This is let's just, I'm only using examples from this week, just to give you like real. We were leaving to go to it's end of year, so there's all the things at school. The boys had it was muffins with mom. Yeah, so great, right? So I said, Brightly, you're gonna get dressed, you're gonna come with mom. His daddy's going to work. She understands all that now. Yeah. And pick out a dress. She knows all her dresses, you know, she picks out her dress. She decides she doesn't want that dress, but it's time to go. I'm so sorry you're gonna wear this dress.

SPEAKER_00

Protest.

SPEAKER_03

I didn't know that that was possible from a 23-month-old. Yes, what happened?

SPEAKER_00

She has it, she has she wants to look a certain way. Yep.

SPEAKER_03

And I was like, what? Yeah. And she knew, yeah, and I but I felt that thing. I have to hold it's not a big deal. Like, could I just change the dress? Yes. Yes, but I actually need to hold this line right now because she needs to learn. Like, yeah, we it's time to go, we're actually gonna leave. And so I said, Brightly, I know you want the other dress, but this is about your brothers right now. They've been working hard on a PowerPoint at Muffins with mom. So we're leaving. And I picked that girl up screaming, put her in the car seat, and we drove to school by the time we were there, she was fine. But I thought, wow, with the boys, I just would have done the quick change. Oh, yeah. You know, oh okay, whatever. Let's just get out the door. And I thought, wow, that's something that they have that power. Yep. And now we're having a boundary's not a boundary.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, that's so good.

SPEAKER_03

So with her, I'm like, oh, that would what seemed like a little moment is I'm like, oh, I'm so relieved I know to hold these boundaries, even though they seem so young.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So good.

SPEAKER_03

Oh my gosh. We I can't wait to do this series on parenting.

SPEAKER_02

A spontaneous podcast. Thank you guys for coming to this week's parenting podcast. We love you guys so much. God bless you. Go be with Jesus, read the word. We love you so much. Bye.