Bible Study Podcast

Your Body Is Not a Problem to Fix — It Is a Temple to Steward

• Darren Rouanzoin, Angela Halili

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Wearing your body down is not a badge of how hard you are working for Jesus. It is a sign that something has gone wrong. This episode makes the case that your body is a spiritual reality — not a machine to manage — and that how you sleep, eat, rest, and move is an act of worship just as much as anything that happens on Sunday morning.

In this episode:
• The Gnostic lie the church has inherited — physical bad, spiritual good — and why it is not biblical
• Why your body carries the weight of unprocessed emotion and trauma
• The three major factors of soul health relative to the body: diet, exercise, and rest
• Darren's story of bleeding internally at 29 — and what it took to realize his body was not the enemy
• Angela's story of panic attacks, disordered eating, and learning what her body was actually saying
• Why Sabbath is not about doing nothing — it is about learning to receive being loved for no good reason
• What it means to steward your body as an offering to the Lord rather than an idol to perfect

SPONSORS
This series is brought to you with the support of the New International Version (NIV) — the Bible translation we use when reading, studying, and preaching. With more than 650 million copies distributed worldwide, the NIV is the most widely read Bible translation in contemporary English, delivering the very best combination of accuracy, readability, and clarity. It is true to God's Word and true to the reader.

📖 Find an NIV Bible that's right for you at https://www.thenivbible.com/niv-bibles/

We are also supported by Logos Bible Software — the tool all three of us use when studying Scripture. Logos isn't just a Bible app, it is your whole study desk, your library, and your study partner in one place. Start your free trial and check out the Bible Study Pdcst bundles at https://logos.com/biblestudypdcst

📖 Visit https://logos.com/biblestudypdcst to start your free trial today

Hosted by:
• Pastor Darren Rouanzoin — https://www.instagram.com/darrenr
• Angela Halili — https://www.instagram.com/angelahalili
• Pastor Bill Dogterom — https://www.instagram.com/bdogterom

#BibleStudy #SoulCare #ChristianPodcast #Faith #Jesus #BibleStudyPodcast #BodyAndSoul

SPEAKER_04

Hey friends, I just want to say I hope you've loved this podcast. We have been finding ways to make this sustainable because there's production costs and all sorts of things that you don't see behind the scenes. And rather than doing ads, we found some partners. And first of all, this is a nonprofit. We are trying to empower this as a nonprofit to give it away. And if you want to participate in giving, you can go to Commissioned Collective. The link will be below, and you can give. We'd love your support to make this what it is. But we also have partners. So we have two partners we've we've aligned ourselves with. First is Zondervan. Zondervan is a Christian publishing house. They have produced lots of resources that we we use. Things like the NIV translation, which is what I use and I encourage people to use. They have Bible study resources, publishing, they have so many books and all sorts of things online. Check out what they're doing. They're coming out with a whole bunch of resources that you'll love to partner with. And we are so glad that they're partnering with us in this Bible study podcast.

SPEAKER_01

But also And we're also partnering with Logos, which is a Bible study app and resource and website that has so aided me in my journey with studying scripture, teaching on the podcast. We love Logos so much. It is a journey in there. When you open it up, there's so much to learn from, so much to glean from. So we love Logos and we're so excited to partner with them.

SPEAKER_04

And I would love for all of you to download that. It's a free app. You can get free resources, but then you can build a library. So if you love studying scripture, that is the app I used for all my study. I've been training Angela in it, and I want to encourage all of you to get that as well. So thanks for your support. We're so glad you're partnering with us in this journey.

SPEAKER_01

Thank you guys so much.

SPEAKER_04

All right, we're gonna start, but let's jump in. Say welcome to the Bible study podcast and then check in. Okay.

SPEAKER_01

Do you want to pray on camera?

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, I'll pray. I'll pray on camera when we jump in after the time. Cool. All right.

SPEAKER_01

Hey guys, I'm Ange.

SPEAKER_04

Hi, I'm Darren.

SPEAKER_03

I'm Bill.

SPEAKER_01

And this is the Bible study podcast where we're gonna read the Bible, talk about Jesus, and lead you guys into the heart of God. These are my friends, Pastor Darren and Pastor Bill. How are we doing, guys?

SPEAKER_04

What's going on, Angela? Wait, you go give us an update real quick because you were traveling and you were on tour. Tell us what's going on.

SPEAKER_01

I was away for a whole two weeks. That's a long time. I was in Vermont. I literally went to summer camp. You also went to summer camp.

SPEAKER_04

It's crazy. Yeah. But Vermont sounds amazing.

SPEAKER_01

It was the most beautiful. I didn't have service. I completely disconnected. I jumped off of rocks. I have a fear of heights. Listen to this. I have a deadly fear of heights. I get vertigo. I get dizzy. They take me, my group of friends take me up on these rocks, and they're like cliff jumping. When I first get up there, my legs are wobbly, my knees are shaky because I'm so scared. I can't even look over the side. Within 10 minutes, I was jumping off. Within 20 minutes, I was doing backflips. It's okay. And so this is the ethos of my life. You might be a little anxious, you're a little scared. Do it anyways. Jump off the cliff. Jump off the cliff, anyways. There you go. So that's, and then we had tour in Rhode Island and New York.

SPEAKER_04

That's great. How was that?

SPEAKER_01

So special. Cool. It is amazing to see how responsive people are to the gospel. Beautiful.

SPEAKER_04

There's hunger out there right now. So much hunger. So cool. East Coast, too. That's pretty crazy.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Prants in Rhode Island. Yeah. Terrytown, New York. We're doing a lot of the East Coast this summer. Great.

SPEAKER_04

Good to see you. How are you? What are you doing?

SPEAKER_00

Not much. I'm trying to learn how to be retired and clean up my office after 32 years. Did you do that or are you having I'm in process? There's still piles of things and things that I swore I would use and haven't looked at in 25 years. So it's one of the trash. But wow.

SPEAKER_01

How is it throwing things away?

SPEAKER_00

It is challenging because I still read the things and I think, oh, this could be useful for somebody. Totally. But in 25 years it's been useless. So why not get rid of it? Totally. A lot of it I've given away to some students came and picked up some books and things like that. But for the most part, it's gone. Wow. It's like it feels good actually, to be honest. It's like kind of clearing clearing space for whatever's coming next.

SPEAKER_01

It's beautiful.

SPEAKER_04

I can't imagine. I've been coming to that office for 23 years. Wow.

SPEAKER_01

Have one-on-one meetings?

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. Since I was a 19-year-old student. Lots of tears. Oh, yeah. Conflict tears. Yeah. You fixing my life. Yeah. Listening. I I would always say he listens people into wholeness. So that is so beautiful.

SPEAKER_00

That's the classic definition. Margaret Gunther of spiritual direction. Listen people into their own lives.

SPEAKER_01

Wow.

SPEAKER_04

So good. Yeah. If you don't have a pastor, you need to find a pastor. And I will say they're rare nowadays to find people in.

SPEAKER_00

We need more of them than ever before.

SPEAKER_04

Which is what I have for the in your retirement.

SPEAKER_00

I have a plan for your retirement. Which is true. I've discovered Darren's will for my life.

SPEAKER_01

That is amazing. That is awesome.

SPEAKER_04

I've been slow playing this for seven times.

SPEAKER_01

That's so great.

SPEAKER_04

Oh, I'm so grateful for you, Bill. Thanks for being on the podcast. We're gonna in just a moment. Well, I want to share. I I have done a bunch of stuff the last couple weeks. One, my family, so my mom and my two brothers, and we all have eight kids between three of us. We take a trip to Bakersfield, which you don't think Bakersfield, but my mom's boss has a private ski ranch, and it's got like a 400-foot water slide, and boats, and jet skis, and kayaks and wildlife, and just it's like a private, like gated area. And my kids they just run wild. And for seven years, we just go and hang out in this private lake and do all the fun camp stuff, rock climbing wall, and there's lots of wildlife. So we caught scorpions and snakes. We actually took a snake home many years ago, okay, and then we released it into the wild as one does with boys. That's the thing about it.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, boys are so funny.

SPEAKER_04

You want to keep tarantulas, you know, it's so interesting. But here's the thing: I did take a souvenir home. The whole time I'm always like, hey guys, make sure you keep your bag zipped up. Things can get in there. Well, I brought home a giant wolf spider. Like I was unloading my stuff and I in my house and I unloaded, and this huge giant wolf spider jumps out of my bag. Jumps like out of my bag and is on our bed. And I, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Darren, that is my worst nightmare.

SPEAKER_04

Is it's terrifying. They're huge.

SPEAKER_01

That's so scary. Yeah, I was texting Darren and his wife Alex, and they were sending me photos, and I'm like, summer camp, I want to come next year. And then he, without my permission, sends a photo of a scorpion. And I was like, This is the last thing I want to see.

SPEAKER_04

The most venomous scorpion in North America who's in the shower. So that's how we roll. Anyway, it's been good. Life's been fun. Nobody died. We've had stitches, broken, broken limbs. Like a couple years ago, Ames got stitches on his chin.

SPEAKER_01

That's what I told my friends on the cliffs. I was like, guys, let's just go before we've had enough fun. We've done too many flips. Let's go before somebody goes to the hospital. You know, let's go. That's what I'm saying. One more thing. Yeah. I have black mold in my house. No. Yes, in my bathroom downstairs, but it's in the wall. Okay. So they're taking care of it. They're doing it. Isn't that crazy?

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, that's mold is bad.

SPEAKER_01

Mold is bad. Yeah, we can. You heard it here first.

SPEAKER_00

That's true. There's a metaphor there.

SPEAKER_04

Is there and there's what is the metaphor? The old testament talks about it too, right? What to do with mold.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it's one of the one of the marks of an unclean house. Ooh. Luckily, we're not going to deal with it. That's what Leviticus is about. That's why it's peditries matters to me.

SPEAKER_01

This is you were joking, right?

SPEAKER_04

No, it's in the Old Testament. What to do if there's mold unclean? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Like spiritually unclean? No.

SPEAKER_00

No, no, no. No.

SPEAKER_01

Oh.

SPEAKER_04

No, no, no.

SPEAKER_00

No, no. There's there's layers and levels of uncleanness. But what because what you're dealing with with Old Testament law is not just religious kinds of things, but because there is no religious kind of thing. Everything is spiritual. Everything matters. So how high you build the parapet on the top of your house is not a civil matter. It's a matter of responsibility before God for other people. And how houses get built and how land gets apportioned and how you harvest your crops and all of the interrelationships matter. So when a house or a person or an animal has some form of potential harm to other people, that's dealt with rigorously. Totally. And so it's like a mold or a some kind of a growth or a what we would now think of as a skin infection. All of that has to be dealt with. Which is why, in some ways, the book of Leviticus, which is where all of this gets played out, while for us in the Western world, it's like head scratch or what in the world's going on in there, is one of the most important and used books for that cultural space because it says how do you get things that have gone sideways recalibrated. And Leviticus gives you very clear patterns on how to make that happen.

SPEAKER_01

That is amazing.

SPEAKER_04

How to live a clean, holy life unto the Lord. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And what happens when you go sideways? How do you get back home?

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, it's so good.

SPEAKER_01

Beautiful.

SPEAKER_04

So, yes, you have an unclean house. Okay.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, we're figuring it out.

SPEAKER_04

Praise the Lord for the way. We'll find a sheet. Okay, great segue though, because everything is spiritual. I think that's a really important thing. Today I want to talk, I want to dive into the body and why your body matters. And I would argue that in many ways the church today follows more of a Gnostic view of the physical and the spiritual. They see material. It's this comes from Plato, this comes from Aristotle, this comes from Greek philosophy, which is like the physical world is bad and the spiritual world is good. That's like the basic form. So I think in many ways in the church, we apply that lens. Oh, my problems are only spiritual, aka. They don't involve my emotions, they don't involve my mind or my body. And I think for me, this is a very personal conversation I want to have. So can we pray and then we could jump into this discussion? How do we steward our soul, specifically the body in a way that honors God and see that as a mechanism for worship and glory to Jesus? So Lord, I just want to invite you into this talk. I pray as we listen, for anyone listening right now, I pray that you'd speak, that you would empower this conversation to bring life to people, to open their eyes to the ways that you, Lord, are had a physical body. You embodied a physical space of Jesus. You incarnated. Help us to live intentionally in those places. And I pray for anyone that can that's gonna hear concepts that's new to them, I pray that they would be freed, Lord, from ways that have dishonored their body and learn to honor it in your name. Amen.

unknown

Amen.

SPEAKER_04

Well, I I'll just speak, maybe I'll tell the story. You helped me in this process. I think I was 29 and I was planting garden church and I started getting really sick. I was losing weight, I was bleeding through in my stomach, and I spent three months like going to doctors to try to figure out what was going on. I finally they they did tests to see if I had polyps or early signs of colon cancer. I didn't have any of those things. Finally, after all these tests, the doctor was like, What do you do for work? And I was like, I'm a pastor. And he's like, I think the stress of your job is causing you to bleed. And it was this moment where I was like, something's wrong. And it was this realization that what I was doing wasn't working. And if you were to rewind my whole life, it's always been like this, where I would kind of my my mentality was you just run harder, run faster. You get it done. You could say codependency is part of the problem. You could say I lacked boundaries. At the root of it, I wasn't stewarding my body. I wasn't taking, I wasn't listening to my body. My body was tired, my body was exhausted, it was burnt out, it was physically hurting, I wasn't eating well, I wasn't working out, I wasn't resting sabbathing. I was just push driving, driving, driving, driving. And all of that was in the name of Jesus. It was like the church was growing. We didn't have a big staff team at all. It was just Alex and I and you like teaching. And we were we were running the rat race, and I wasn't stewarding this part of my soul, which you've talked about, spiritual, physical, emotional, mental, relational capacities of the soul. And I had to look at the spiritual discipline of stewarding my body, which you had taught me in school, but now it was coming to a place where I had to really evaluate what I was doing. So I want to talk about that the role of the body in this soul care. Can you just go for it?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, uh, maybe the place to begin is just to remind us that the body is where the soul touches what is real.

SPEAKER_04

Explain that as though I was a second grader, real quick.

SPEAKER_00

So it's it's how we and it's how we encounter reality. Willard used to say that reality is what you bump your head on. Well, so good. And it's just his way of saying the physical is where the buck stops. You can't you you are in a place, you're built for place. When the creation narrative starts with God scooping up the mud and breathing into it the breath of life, we ought not be surprised when we still have an affinity to the dirt. We still have a a a physical location. We want to anchor ourselves so body then becomes the primary medium by which we encounter the rest of the world. Sight, taste, fragrance, all of those kind of ways of information gathering our into relationships with people, are not disembodied. Notice how challenging it is to have a conversation over text that's meaningful. Yeah. That you I at the very least, let's make a phone call, or it preferably sit down across a table over time where I can I can see what your body's saying other than what your words are saying. What is it? 85-90% of content is body language, is the is the gestures, is the things that we do. And cultures sh shape themselves around that. Certain cultures are much more effusive with with all of that. But at the end of the day, what we're learning and ha or ought to have learned is that the body is the general location of the soul.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

We don't live in it, we live kind of around it. We have the capacity to be in a place physically, but not be in that place mentally. We can go someplace else, we can be th thinking about something else, we can get tunnel vision, so we're not even seeing what's around us, all that kind of stuff. So the body then, because it is anchored to reality, won't let us get away with that for very long. Sooner or later, if you're not paying attention, you bump into something, someone. And the same thing applies when you're not caring well for your spiritual the spiritual aspect of your soul or the emotional aspect of your soul, almost always it will start to surface because that's where reality kicks in. So your body in that particular case is signaling something. It's not the problem, it's trying to communicate, but because we don't speak body very well, especially in our many of our church environments, yeah, we don't know how to hear what it's saying, and we think often it's an attack of the enemy, or it's a problem to be prayed away, or to be healed from, or like we talked about last time, this idea that we need to be kind of flawless without care. And it just it just doesn't work that way.

SPEAKER_04

So I think this is really important because I think I feel like a lot of times in the church, people come to me or you as pastors and go, hey, I have this anxiety issue, or I'm dealing with depression, or like some type of they think they see it as a spiritual attack. And I before I I I'll say, of course I'm gonna pray, but before I'm like, hey, what's your diet like? Right, are you exercising? Are you what's your sleep pattern? And it's so interesting because if you sleep well, if you eat well general, generally, if you you're just eating enough calories and eating quality food, not you know, and you're not what's your screen time? I'll ask them their screen time too. Totally. If you just observe those patterns, you you and you get those in order, there is a correlation to the things that might make you anxious, that might throw you off, that you might associate to a spiritual issue. I'm not saying it's not, but we're saying everything's spiritual. So the body and the way we steward our bodies affects all the other facilities in our soul. Yeah. And I think it's time to really uh get to that. I I want to just anchor maybe real quick to a text. I'm just gonna jump into this one, and I would love you to go off on this if and maybe don't see this one coming. But first Corinthians 6, 13 through 17, Paul says the body is not meant for sexual immorality, but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body. Yeah, by his power, God raised the Lord from the dead, and he will raise us also. Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ Himself? Can we just go off on that a little bit?

SPEAKER_00

Well, again, it's how the soul connects with reality, and the reality is other people. The he also in Colossians and various other places talks about extreme practices that alternate spiritual systems have of trying to manage the soul through extreme asceticism and fasting and a variety of dynamics. And he's the essentially what he's saying is that if you don't come at this as a whole and understand yourself, as we've talked about, as part of the larger, then sooner or later something's you're gonna end up in the ditch. You're gonna end up really physically fit, but emotionally stunted, or your soul is shrunk because it's your relationships need to be impacted by it. And the the particularly with sexuality, which is I think our culture's big challenge relative to body, yes, um, is is the whole dynamic of what that's about and what's it for, and how does it work in the larger context. And his point there, as you identified, is you don't belong to yourself. Present your bodies, he says, as a living sacrifice, Romans 12, 1. This ongoing whole person, uh, and the reason I think Paul there uses body is because you can't present your body as a living sacrifice with without the rest of y'all coming around sooner or later.

SPEAKER_04

Okay, so you this is interesting. You said Paul will argue that aestheticism like this, the spiritual disciplines or disciplines of training your body physically, that can get in the way of the whole integration of your soul for formation unto the Lord. So, in the same way, I would argue that just emphasizing the spiritual dynamic, like exactly if I just pray and get into the presence of God and worship, that will solve all my emotional problems. No, it doesn't, because you're triggered emotionally and angry all the time when your parents or your kids don't obey, or when your roommate eats your burrito or whatever it is. That was that's truly a story from my past. That was a long time ago. How old is that? Look at that, we're still talking about that burrito. You know who you are, and uh Paul, I want to just maybe lock in on this first Corinthians passage because I think it's interesting as I've done the work on this. It's your body was not designed for sin. Yeah, so your body has a purpose, and your body was designed for the Lord to bring glory to the Lord. So, like he's kind of talking about that. He's like, You're members of Christ, don't you know that? So I just think that's interesting that the Lord, if he's Lord, he's Lord also of your body. Not just your calendar, not just your money, not just your time, but your physical body. What does that mean? He'll say in Romans, like present your member, the members of your body as an instrument of righteousness. Yes.

SPEAKER_00

And again, it's because that's we live around it. So when you anchor, this is the same thing when it comes to worship.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Uh singing is different than not singing, raising your hands is different than not raising your hands. Kneeling, yeah, those are all body things that bring the soul into alignment. I don't feel like it. Well, let your body lead then, let it provide that impetus, and then the rest of the soul can come along. You can be a hypocrite, you can fake it and perform. That's not good either, because that's the other balancing thing. But at the end of the day, Jesus is clear. If this doesn't work. itself out in your body, in your relationships, then what's the point?

SPEAKER_04

Okay. So we if let's take this journey. We recognize that your soul is the integration of those five facilities. We've talked about that. We're talking about now how the body needs to be stewarded. How we how do we care for our soul, the physical aspect of our soul? I want to go into some practical things, but can I just there's a book you've probably read it when the body keeps the score talks about trauma living in the body. It's not just a mind thing but it is a body thing. It's that uh your your physical body is storing up memories like like and one thing is memories and emotion take up mass in your brain. Like we know that it's it's actual physical space in your body that these things inhabit like pain, trauma, excitement, joy, all those things live somewhere. They're not just you know vapor emotionally, they're actually physical mass with with that like I I've thought a lot about this because I uh we talk about muscle memory like we've talked about learning to handle situations where the muscle memory is what Christ would do if he were you in that situation. Right. So that so if if you're have you ever been in a situation where it's like uh I'll just speak for myself. There are moments where I I have anxiety I don't realize I have anxiety. I'm acting um quick and the people that notice this are my my my kids and my wife. So they'll know something's off in dad by my tone, by the speed and pace that I'm walking in the house, by how I'm moving things around. They're picking up on what I don't know in my head because they're physically observing me reacting. And as I've been walking with you and healing from my past it I'm getting I'm I'm finding myself like getting the point where that reactive time is shortening. How do I get to a place? Help me Bill speak to this like this is one of our sessions walk someone through how I might honor the role that my body's playing in that reaction, that anxiety to to not be reacting harmfully to my kids or my wife, but to actually honor what my body's trying to signal to me without me recognizing it.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah it can't start in the moment it has to start with filling typically if you want it to be beneficial long term has to start before the moment. So it's as Bernard of Clairvaux says don't be a channel through which whatever life flows, be a reservoir. Yeah. Fill up and then give out of the overflow without loss to the to the whole so that resilience language I'm a little anxious about that language but the idea of becoming uh capable of responding rather than reacting of of having that and and and when we get better at this it just takes a a a split second before to realize oh I don't have to do what I'm expected to do. I can turn the other cheek I can carry the pack a second mile I can bless those that curse me I can do the but until you get to that until you have enough of a so solid self at the soul level to be able to do that you can't do it. So you have to backfill it with examin. So you become you will I I lost my temper I said things I didn't mean well maybe a day or two later you and the Holy Spirit can have a conversation when did that conversation start to turn yes and you become now maybe three days later I become aware it happened three days of what happened but but that's better than not being aware at all right yes well when you if you're not aware you get to where I was months into burnout going where did I where did this go wrong? And what's really problematic is if you baptize that if you spiritualize that well don't say more about that. Well I think especially for those in Pentecostal charismatic you know church circles we will use spiritual language to justify everything. Everything we'll put this veneer of spirituality over our anger we'll be righteous indignation not just indignation we'll use all of that to justify to ourselves what essentially is no you're out of control. You're defensive and you're angry and there's nothing spiritual necessarily about it.

SPEAKER_04

Or let me let me just speak to that because it's it's not just the anger or the the feelings that we baptize in the name of Jesus it's the hurried pace the church is growing you're the one that has to lead it. So you show up to every meeting you go to all the events you have to be the one responding immediately and you're saying well this is what it means to do ministry. And so you stop with the hobbies you stop eating well because you just eat fast food because you're in a hurry or you're meeting people you don't work out because you don't got time you got to show up at the six o'clock there they need you there at six and then you got to be there in the evening all of it in the name of building the kingdom of God. Except Jesus never asked you to do that. No and most likely and I'll just speak for myself that is a core wound of needing people's approval needing to uh appease the the people around you because you're afraid to fail so you just learn to run faster. Yeah and meanwhile you're suffering your soul suffering and you're blaming Jesus or or the people of Jesus or the people of Jesus which I've done both those things. Yeah and what suffers is your your family your friends but most of all the physical element to who you are as a person.

SPEAKER_00

And speaking to from my pastoral perspective it's a whole lot easier to talk about this than it is to actually live it out right I know everything that I'm saying but I don't know what I'm talking about. Well you know because it means you have to schedule things differently you have to you have to say no and you have to say no you have to say no including no to yourself and disappoint people and disappoint yourself. Yeah. And keep for your fingers crossed that you're not disappointing Jesus because that's what we do right if I disappoint the people of God that must mean I'm disappointing Jesus.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And in reality if you follow Jesus around he's very happy to disappoint people all the time. He says no to his favorite disciple whom you've identified with right the one he loves. No I can't give that to you. He's happy to put his mother in her place. Yeah he never calls Mary mother he always calls her woman which is not a term of disrespect but it's a term of boundary setting. Yeah our relationship has shifted here he went on retreat regularly the disciples who are ready to kind of start getting this thing viralized where did you go?

SPEAKER_04

We could have leveraged this last miracle for great advantage and no I needed to be by myself and I need to leave this is one of the things I love if we were to put it in context he people would be like well you just got to steward the platform God gave you yeah and he's like I got to go somewhere else to preach yeah other sheep. I've got other sheep yeah you're just starting out and you got all this popularity let's go let's steward it push that away we're gonna go over here that doesn't make sense today it's so great does anchor in the relational nature of what God is doing.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah this has got to be relationship yeah or it's nothing it's not performative it's not a task I'm doing it's what are we doing together in in the moment which is why something like a practice like Sabbath back to the care of the body is so important. 247 on isn't helpful. So one day in seven turn it off unplug yeah there's disciplines of practices of Sabbath that then help fill up the reservoir that help us learn how to tell time in real life that recognize oh my output yeah I contribute but at the end of the day if Jesus doesn't build a church it's not the church that's being built he knows I can grav gather a crowd but I can't build a church. That's different right and then the same thing physically with the body carries all of that unless it is made to lie down in green pastures and drawn by waters of stillness just that metaphor that he uses in Psalm 23 to talk about the care of a good shepherd how many of us need to be made to lie down because we will not do it otherwise you made me preach on a passage in your class and you you gave everyone a passage and it was a narrative sermon we had to do.

SPEAKER_04

And I had Psalm 23 I'll never forget this because you I was doing the research and you helped me I learned through the commentary that sheep will not lay down sometimes they are they'll stay standing and if they stay tired yeah they won't unbuckle their niece. They're too tired to lay down yeah they feel that they kind of forget and if they forget they die. So the shepherd will unbuckle their legs and make them literally force them down to sleep. Wow which that and that it's funny because the two sermons I preached in your club oh I preached three I think but two of them were one was on do not worry that was the first sermon I ever preached and that was the second one the narrative one yeah all would be markers of my entire life of what I need to remember. Don't be anxious about anything and he makes me lie down again all the things did you know you didn't know or maybe you did you had help but it's true and I I okay uh I want to talk about real quick the body stuff because I actually want to get to the practical things at some point because there are things that you I remember you teaching about offering your physical body to the Lord as a as like as part of worship accepting and embracing the limitations um the bumps the awkwardness the awkwardness the things that you consider to be ugly. Can we talk about that because I feel like this is so anti-culture. Like our culture celebrates it an idealized image that's been airbrushed and broken. Yeah and it's made you know and it and it's causing a lot of harm for people who have dealt with body image issues and and you know all of that. I want to talk about what what would be honoring your body from a biblical standpoint based on those practical things that you've taught.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah the first place is humility which is deeply grounded in reality. This is the point you look in that mirror that five dimensional mirror social, intellectual emotional physical we're now just looking at the physical kind of mirror try to do a 360 you can't do it without help to see what is actually there. Right and then you notice where am I where am I asterisking my goodness? Because remember God in speaking us into being said this is good. This works and it's a very different way of understanding because the same Hebrew word is translated elsewhere beauty. Yeah so he looks at his human human creation and says this is beautiful. Yeah right and we look at the human creation that we are and we start to nitpick we start to well maybe a few pounds here a little bit more here or a little less here or maybe a color difference here or or or or or end what we're doing is buying into more of a a Greek and Western view of beauty which is the degree to which I conform to an idealized external non-existent form. Yes. So the more a woman's body or a man's body or uh an urn you know the ode to a Grecian urn this poem that we memorized in high school um there's an externalized understanding of beauty. And in many ways you know you look you look at how proportions work and and so on there's some value to that. But the Hebrew way or the eastern way more particularly is asking well does it work?

SPEAKER_01

Right.

SPEAKER_00

If so beautiful beautiful and and so there are wide ranges of beauty wide ranges of goodness wide ranges of what it means to be male or female say and each of those needs to be stewarded. So the first place to start is what is the horse God has given you to ride take good care of it yeah and and don't don't don't be trying to nitpick it. Where where are you asterisking and and where did you learn that? Yeah because that's that's the problem.

SPEAKER_04

Let's talk specifically because I think I love what you're saying. But practically speaking so you're if you're a young person whose body doesn't have aches right now your knees don't hurt and squeak when they wake up you know like as you get older this is what you have to look forward to you turn 40 something and now your digestive system is different. Your metabolism is different um so we are talking about practically in an in a you know if people are listening like you know in their late teens to 40s or or older you know I'm pointing to you Bill um there is an intentionality around caring for your body. So for me it starts with sleep like this for me I'm like we got to start talking about stewarding your body by actually resting. Take yes I so I have a whoop band I wear all the time I I have it on now and I track my sleep I track all of it I'm I'm kind of obsessed with those things not in a bad way in a healthy way I want to steward my my body well I've been looking at like I do blood work I've been doing all this stuff and you know I have a few things off in my blood work. So I took my two blood work from six months apart and I I like here's what I'm consuming calorie wise I'm eating healthy here's my my six months of sleeping I throw it all into to AI and I said can you just evaluate this? What's going on? I'm trying to figure out what the issues are and and I haven't for months I'm like what's what supplements do I need to be on to fix these you know things over here in my blood work and then I finally put my sleep score in there and like and and the Claude anthropic is like everything I've been saying is wrong all you need to focus on is sleep.

SPEAKER_01

How much are you sleeping?

SPEAKER_04

Like seven less six and a half to seven hours and I was like really and they're like yes this changes everything like you don't these supplements that I'm trying to give you this diet that you're eating which is it's just a healthy you know whole food diet all of that would be solved if you just focused on seven and a half hours seven and a half to eight hours of sleep.

SPEAKER_01

Crazy.

SPEAKER_00

And I was like oh my goodness wow isn't that perfect I'm spending supplements on the red yeast and you know and and all the omega 3s and all these things that is me and it's like just go to bed just sleep in it's just sleep in because I'm going to bed and just and the challenge I mean the challenges technologically with that I mean we live in a land of no night. Exactly yeah look we got screens on screens lights artificial lights I don't need a night light in my house because I've got enough ambient light from the street lights. Yeah there's no place we can go maybe Joshua Tree out into the desert where they have stars.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah totally we we don't even see the sky because of the light pollution and that affects our sleep our sleep yeah no this is so big so I want to just say like practically sleep and like for me I I want to have you know time with the Lord in the morning. So I would wake up really early and as I'm trying to process why do I have no energy well I need to sleep in more so I'm having to adjust and it's so hard Alex and I were debating this she's like Darren wake up at six don't wake up at 4 30 and five and I'm like listen to your wife I know but listen to your wife but you know what's funny is I haven't been listening to my body. Right. And that's what's it's like my body's been telling me at four o'clock every day you're tired. Yeah I'll just drink more caffeine I'm just being really on yeah I'll just drink more caffeine yeah and then I'll take the supplements meanwhile all it's saying is don't set your alarms so early yeah well I I saw a billboard I don't know if we saw it and no we didn't go far enough on on the five but there's a billboard up here someplace where it says sleep is overrated.

SPEAKER_01

That's the culture we live in though it truly is the culture we live in.

SPEAKER_00

And that'll kill you sorry.

SPEAKER_01

Can I ask you a question? So as somebody who has walked through lots of disordered eating throughout my life probably one of the areas that I've had to do the most work in is like my mind to body connection. And I think so many of us I have struggled with body image issues where I look in the mirror and I legitimately don't see what's there. I see something different. And hunger cues have been really hard for me for almost all of my life because I've constantly been in like a state of starvation for most of it. And so I want to ask you practically or spiritually or whatever it might be how what would you say to someone who had is lacking in their mind body connection?

SPEAKER_00

I think I'd insert a third so mind-body spirit. Yeah right so for me when I'm walking with people in those kinds of scenarios it is a prayer process. So sit by yourself for a few minutes half an hour and begin to pray from their toes right through to the top of your head and give thanks. Yeah and force yourself back into your body. Wow it pay attention what are you relaxing the muscles as you work it it takes a lot of discipline because you you're not the only one that when we look in the mirror we only see a tiny little piece of what we're trying to adjust or frag you know a fragment of it we rarely ever look in the full length full body mirror and see who is actually there without wincing without turning away. So part of it is becoming present and then the second element of that is offering it up with thanksgiving where now we're inviting an awareness this is this is what I have to give today this is where my connection to deep reality occurs. The we prayed coming into this this idea of incarnation God becoming flesh and dwelling among us is a way of saying bodies matter. A Japanese theologian I was reading the other day talked about the three mile an hour God that already offends me. Yeah that you have to slow down physically to keep up with God.

SPEAKER_04

That's a slow walk that's a slow walk and I've been tracking zone two and it's very hard so you're talking about slowing down I want to read I I want you to think about this this is from a book um uh which I want you to think about uh it's the book The Wisdom of Your Body and she says she uses this image imagine your body is a house that you were made to live inside over time because you learn that other people look at your house comment on it rate it you start spending all your time out on the front lawn staring back at the house anxious about how it looks you stop living inside the home that was always yours. When it comes to your bodies she says most of us are living on the front lawn we are so fixated on how the body looks from the outside that we have lost the ability to feel what is happening on the inside and this is where we're talking about we are a body we are embodied people and we haven't learned to one enjoy yeah and honor and love the bodies we have because we've been taught to critique and fight for the idealized version which is an endless cycle that creates so much pain and broken. Like and I I've struggled struggled with eating disorder as a as a teenager and body shame and hate. And it's still it is a hard thing to just be comfortable and I think what you were saying about walking through and imagining your body like I remember you had me do this a long time ago and that was present your body as a living sacrifice and then in Romans I think it's six it's um present the members of your body to the Lord right as instruments of righteousness. Through each part of your physical body when even the uncomfortable parts that you don't like Lord thank you for This part. Yeah. Thank you for the you know.

SPEAKER_00

Well, this is Roman, this is First Corinthians 12. The the parts of our body that serve us best are the most hidden ones. They don't get any honor, they don't get any acclaim, but those are the ones that we need to protect and treasure. So true. Because the other the third stage that I would add, in addition to becoming present and offering up, is to tune tune out as much as you can the voices that have no business commenting in the first place. So true. Jonathan Haidt has done this work with Coddling and various other places, Greg Lukinoff, um, with how much since 20, what is it, 12 or 13, especially w young women, uh, but not just young women, have been essentially putting themselves up on the auction block and letting everybody vote with thumbs up or whatever. And it is a ruthless marketplace of insecurity that is now working its way. Well, turn it off.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Well, I and I don't even know if Pastor Bill, you're aware of like what's happening in our culture right now. There's like the rise of Ozempic. Um, there are lots of medications. Like, I think in the early 90s, there was this thing called heroin cheek where models became as thin as possible and they were like doing drugs to stay that thin. Um, like the thinner, if you could see your tendons, like you were in a good place. And then we kind of like shifted, as society does, into like more uh just a different body types. And then we're back there now, though, with all these medications and all these people, we like women specifically, but men too, we are becoming as small as possible. And it's a very weird thing because it's all spiritual too, where women are like essentially disappearing. And so, how so now we are looking at the women that we idolize in society in the media who are like skin and bones as of right now, and that is the norm currently that everybody's trying to aspire to, and it's really hard to see that and then look in the mirror and be like, Am I okay in my normal body?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, because and but notice the language you're using, that's the norm. Yeah, and that's the Western Greek view. As much as I can I conform to that norm, yeah, by whatever means, then I'm beautiful. And the Old Testament, I would argue God says beauty. Does it work? Yeah, there's no there's no weight that attaches to beauty or lack of weight that attaches to beauty. There's no height. You can't Jesus is clear, you can't by thinking about it add a cubit an inch to your height anyway. So why are you obsessing over things over which you have no control? And this that's why that third element is so critical. Right. Uh, we need to turn down the volume. And I think candidly, I I I think it's good stewardship to be able to accept again, health is different than appearance, but health has a range of of weight, if you will, of of um some of the dynamics that attach to that.

SPEAKER_04

So yeah. So as as we're talking about stewarding the body, this is so interesting because it it is a cultural, it is a counterformational discipline then to reject the norm society is placing on women and men and find the biblical framework for what or or you know, the Christ-like framework for what it means to accept and embrace the body that you have. So if you were to be honest, it would be embracing what you see as a flaw according to society and culture, and offering it your that flaw to the Lord with gratitude. Thank you for a body. Like for me, I think about this all the time when I've dealt with injuries. Like, I actually got stitches two weeks ago.

SPEAKER_01

No way.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, I I came home on Wednesday to power wash the outside of the house, and my friend let me borrow the power washer, and I was in a hurry, and I wanted to watch, I think it was game four. Um you're rooting for the Knicks, of course. Jalen Brunson, let's go, Joshua Hart. Um, I was I twisted the hose on improperly to the that had the the power washer piece, and I turned it on and it shoots into my shin and my shin explodes. Like I have to go immediately to to the urgent care and get three stitches on my mystery water? No, it was the metal piece on the the hose and it just blasted my shin open. And and I was limping for two days. It was painful, it was swollen, and you know, I had to deal with infection, all that stuff. But I was I was like, oh, interesting. Here I am limping, but now I'm grateful for all the other times that I wasn't limping when I could go on walks without thinking about it. Yeah, or if you ever had back out, your back gets injured, your neck gets injured, and you're like, all of a sudden, that limitation has let me like into this world that I wasn't grateful for. So wherever you are, let me just say this not to compare yourself, but be grateful for the body that you have.

SPEAKER_01

Please, please.

SPEAKER_04

Oversize, under like we got to move in a in a better direction to where we begin to acknowledge that the body we have is what God's given us. And if you're recognizing, like I have, you haven't stewarded your body, so you're not sleeping, you're not eating well. Like, look, I'm not saying go whole 30, eat a kale salad all the time. I'm saying, but if your go-to is like a burger and fries, or my staff know this, they'll go. I say this, I'm like, hey, if you ever see me at Wingstock, stop, you know that I'm having I'm down emotionally. It's true because why do you create comfort food? Like you want to comfort the emotions. That's what I was taught as a kid.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

When I was going through a hard time, my mom would make hamburger helper or whatever it is. Like, here, eat more food. And that had an impact on my soul. There's a direct connection to the physical, to the soup, the spiritual, and the emotional. So just become aware of the patterns that you're eating, your sleep, your stress levels. Listen to your body. Listen to your body as it's like. So for me, one of the things I'm practicing to practice embodiment, to like try to connect with my body, because I I I my mind is somewhere and my body somewhere else. Like I'm trying to like sit and go, what does my body feel? Yeah. I'm so disconnected.

SPEAKER_00

Well, that's the first step in what is what I think of as biospiritual feedback. It's a whole movie. Tell me about that. Well, it's it's exactly that. God communicates, as does the rest. This is this is how we interact with reality. So why why would we silence it?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And so what we're trying to do is pay attention. What where where and and often we have to, I mean, it sounds corny, but every time I've done it, I've it's it's been beneficial where you ask your body for permission and for forgiveness. Because sometimes the forgiveness is I haven't paid attention, I haven't noticed. What have you been trying to say to me? And then sit long enough until there is an awareness of what is going on or what the invitation is or what the message might be. Yeah. Uh, and then that becomes a way of back again to your larger question. How do we reconnect mind, spirit, body? How do that get integrated? And I think, like I said, it's a prayer process that involves praying with body, not just about it.

SPEAKER_01

That's beautiful.

SPEAKER_04

Well, the listening to your body part, what you're saying, the messenger messengers that are speaking through your physical sensations. Like one thing I've learned is you can't heal what you're not willing to feel. Yeah. Um, so I learned I had two primary feelings, fear and anger. And there's you taught me sadness. I remember sitting at a coffee shop and I was 19 years old, and I my parents divorced, and I was processing all the stuff, and you're like, what you're feeling is sadness. And it hit me like a great train. I was like, and I remember weeping. I I don't, you probably you walk with thousands of kids, but I remember crying, going, I've never known that that is what I feel, and I feel it all the time. Yeah, and I had to, and then it was this journey of discovering emotions, which there's a lot of emotions, nine primary.

SPEAKER_01

I need to go on that journey.

SPEAKER_04

It's been crazy. But what I learned is to numb emotions through food, yeah, through activity, through busyness, through entertainment, through social media. So I run at a pace where I just keep everything like down until I would get sick every Christmas time when you know we go on Christmas break. And why is Darren always sick at Christmas break? Because my body since September has been telling me I've been running too fast, but I haven't listened to it. And now that we have two weeks off and we're not doing anything, everything comes out.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Can we yeah? Go ahead. No, no, we please you.

SPEAKER_00

Well, and the environment at Christmas also contributes.

SPEAKER_04

Well, you think you think are you talking about the eggnog or are you talking about the family eggnog?

SPEAKER_00

Uh I don't know what in the world that's all about. It's the best.

SPEAKER_04

Lattes, eggnog, cappuccinos. Let's go.

SPEAKER_00

No, what happens is those seasonal moments, right? Christmas, Thanksgiving, the places where family and food and events come together. Yeah. And with them, everything is this long list of expectations. You're supposed to celebrate, you're supposed to be happy, you're supposed to be all of the things. And most of our systems don't produce anything close to that expectational satisfaction. So now we're gearing up, and we have this build-up of poor care, self-care from we'll say September. And then we hit the holiday season, and it's just crazy.

SPEAKER_04

Sickness, exhaustion, all of the things, seasonal depression, yeah. Which is connected to the food that I'm eating because I'm overindulging in the things that are seasonal, which by the way, it definitely starts earlier because you're like, oh, October, September pumpkins. Yeah, that comes out now in like August. Pumpkin spice is like August. So it's all getting extended, right? You know, and so and and I I thought about this with my kids too, because they start eating sugar more, because they don't eat a ton of sugar, but then during the seasons, they're eating sugar, and what happens? They get sick, they're you know, allergies come back, all these things are connected to what we're consuming. And then on top of that, they're like what you're saying, I've never thought about that. The because if if it's true that body is stored, uh sorry, your trauma is stored in your body, you we have these muscle memories that are that are literally manifesting. Because I can recall, you know, the this the fights or the seasons of of depression that I had as a kid. No one called it that then. Yeah. The anxiety I felt of trying to please everyone, the pressure that I would embody in the family system that I came from, when my parents divorced, trying to make it like it was before they got divorced, all of that as a child lives somewhere. And I never processed it. I just ran faster. I just made more people happy. Right. And then it just comes out in sickness and burnout and unhealth.

SPEAKER_01

When I um I went through a lifetime similar to Darren, but like just a lifetime of, you know, repressed and suppressed emotions and trauma and like living in a context where nobody talked about feeling. So there was no outlet, nobody to like lead you into your own heart to figure out what you're feeling. And so by the time I was 19, I started having panic attacks. And they were all, it was physical. I was never, I wasn't thinking my way into a panic attack. I would simply just start shaking, get lightheaded, fast heart rate, thinking I was having a heart attack. It was, I was constantly going to the doctor, being like, check my heart, something is wrong. And the guy would be like, You have anxiety. And I would be like, I don't know what that means. That doesn't mean anything to me. Um, and so for me, I mean, my whole testimony is anxiety and trauma manifesting physically and me having no idea what to do with that.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And then um I want you, Pastor Bill, to potentially like rebuke us and the hustle culture that we all live in because I've been on tour for Girls Gone Bible for the past two years. Uh, the first year, I was getting sick every week. I mean, I was ill for almost a whole year. And I was like, I have to admit, there was a little part of me that was like a little bit like, this is so cool. I'm working so hard and going so hard that I'm always sick. Um, I'm traveling so much that I'm always sick. Like, there was definitely a part of me that was like, this is such a testament to how much we're doing and how hard we're working. Um, and then I finally realized my body's not always gonna be able to take a beating like it is right now. I will get older and it's not always gonna, and I think as young people, we often take advantage of how much our body can put up with. So can you please speak to us who think that like wearing our bodies down is a sign of we're working really hard?

SPEAKER_00

And I mean, you've said it as eloquently as I ever could, because that's exactly what happens. And then we view it as spiritual warfare. Right. And of course, we do have an enemy, but he is underpowered, he has no creative capacity, so he just leverages our stupid against us.

SPEAKER_01

Okay, yes, yes, yes, can I say something? Because I think when I began in my faith, there was such an emphasis on spiritual warfare and like the enemy sending things, sending uh like sickness at you, sending this at you, the sending these issues, but really he uses us against ourselves. He does, and those are all just symptoms of us not treating ourselves well.

SPEAKER_00

Exactly. I mean, for most of us, he doesn't even have to get out of bed till noon. Wow because we'll blow ourselves up half a dozen times, right?

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, when this is this is so important. When if you think, and you said something that I just want to I want to say is is possibly untrue. Yeah, you said you said like we can as when we're young, we can like you know go do all this with our body, but as we get older, we won't be able to. The truth is you can't when you're young, you just don't see the impact. Totally, yeah. Um it's cumulative, it comes over time. And I would say, like, one of the gifts for me is having, like you said, you can't see the backside without people speaking to it. Like, I have a wife and two kids. So when I used to, when I was younger, I could travel a lot when I was speaking. When my kids were born, the travel cost way more totally because you're missing, like I remember I went on a trip to India, and my son just started walking, Ezra just started walking, and then I came back 10 days later and he was no longer crawling. And and I I watched him walk, but I was like, wow, I missed the transition. And I said, and I haven't been back to India since. And the and part and I haven't traveled away from my kids. I I don't travel like that ever since. It's been 13 years, 12 years now. So I don't, I haven't done a lot of travel. I've traveled with them, but the true cost of travel is is not just, oh, you miss your kids. It's that you miss the routine, you miss you, you, you're, you're, you're, you're more exposed to germs, which that's not a problem, but like you're out of routine, your body's not eating. Like there's a thousand things you're doing that you don't realize have a true cost. It's not Satan trying to give you sickness, it's that you didn't sleep because you were on a red eye, you couldn't sleep in the bed because it's unfamiliar. There's a thousand things that add up, you know? Yeah, and it's not don't, you know, just focus on your body, because then that's the other side of our culture, which is your body is now an idol. Sleep is an idol. That's not what it is. I'm talking about stewardship, which has the goal of honoring the Lord and bringing glory to God in your body. But this is good. I mean, this is what what we need to lock lock in and as a community right now in the church to recognize your body matters and not and everything is spiritual, therefore, how you steward the physical aspects of your soul is an offering to the Lord. Yeah. And I want to make sure that young people, old people understand that. That um, if if you're dealing with crisis, start with are you sleeping enough? Are you eating enough? Are you eating well? Um, do you have hobbies that help bring life and joy into your life? Because I remember I stopped surfing when I started the church. I planted the church and I thought, well, this is what it means to be on mission. You give up, you lay down your life for Jesus. Well, he never asked me to give up surfing. That was a false understanding in my head because I thought what I had to do was, you know, sacrifice everything for Jesus. That's that was a lie.

SPEAKER_01

Anything that makes you happy. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04

That's truly a lie. And I had to rediscover hobbies. And that was, I mean, I think when I was on my sabbatical, you were you were telling me to golf more and you know discover, yeah, play. Play was the the serious work I had was to learn how to play. Yeah, and that was a physical discipline that is still hard for me.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, but again, notice how this is built into what we've been given. One day in seven, yeah, don't do anything that contributes Sabbath. Right? And that then helps us to order physically, emotionally, spirit, uh everything, yeah, the the rest of the of the of the of the life that is stitched together holistically by attending to the to the rhythms.

SPEAKER_01

Can I ask you a question? In in regards to rest, I don't think anybody really knows how to rest in my generation. I don't think I really know how to rest. I think for us uh in my generation, rest means sitting on the couch and scrolling on your phone or watching TV. I imagine that's not godly rest.

SPEAKER_00

Correct.

SPEAKER_01

Correct.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, that's distraction from rest.

SPEAKER_01

Right. So can you tell us practically how do you that was a good one? Can you tell us practically how we can rest in the Lord? Um, because I think when people hear rest in the Lord, but you're not allowed to use your phone and you're not allowed to watch TV, what do you do? You sit and you read the box for a whole day. What would you do?

SPEAKER_00

No, you go for a walk, you reconnect with nature, you lie on the grass, you throw a ball with your kids, you golf, surf, play. Some of those dynamics are important. Um I mean, the difference is going to be uh can you can you play golf without having to keep score? Yeah, for sure. Can you play it as a as a non-competitive piece? Um but those and then worship is an important part of that dynamic. And uh long leisurely conversations or slow walks rather than a power walk for exercise sake, a slow walk around the neighborhood.

SPEAKER_01

Um can you work out on Sabbath?

SPEAKER_00

Huh?

SPEAKER_01

Can you work out on your Sabbath?

SPEAKER_00

I would I would argue uh probably not. Most people who work out can't cannot.

SPEAKER_01

Wow.

SPEAKER_00

Because they make it work. This is contributing rather than so like my devotional rhythm even changes on Sabbath. Yeah. I only read what I want to read. I don't, I don't, I mean, the rest of the week, I have a fairly regimented schedule that I work through, but on Sabbath it's like, what do I feel like? And sometimes, just to be candid, I don't feel like anything. Okay. That's fine. Wow. It it's it's it's a it's an entry into a kind of freedom that enables then the oh, that's where this is going in the longer long term with the other six days. The other thing that I would say is we need to get really good at doing nothing well, yes, and being bored, and being bored, yeah. Yeah, we've lost that.

SPEAKER_01

I hate being bored.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. But if you will sit with it long enough, you will start to notice the boredom loses. Because underneath is a stream of living water. Wow. But if you always are distracting as a way of not being bored, you'll never discover. Jesus was never bored. Yeah. Because he was always present where he was, and part of our boredom requires us to press through to the that's gets us right back to becoming present in your body, paying attention to where you are and who with whom you are. So it's those those kind of practices that get you there.

unknown

Wow.

SPEAKER_04

I love it. Could you give me a summary for everyone listening of how you start stewarding your body? That's great. It's like bullet points. Practical.

SPEAKER_00

I don't know that I could do it that way. I but I'll try to do it right now. I I I think the main thing is where we started this morning, which is to say, look in the mirror and have the courage to stand there and notice what God has given you, yeah, and give thanks for it. And if you have to work through each part, that becomes an important part of the dynamic. So in other words, it's become present, right? But then the diet, exercise, and rest is going to be the critical dynamic, not going crazy, not the binge purge cycle of dieting. But we're built for between seven and a half and nine hours of sleep a night. Apparently. So if you want to get up early, that's fine. But that means you need to go to bed early. Yeah. And that changes some of the dynamics there. I mean, when we read of these saints who would pray for three or four hours getting up at four o'clock in the morning, well, there was no electricity. Yeah, there's a lot of time. It was dark at seven o'clock, eight o'clock at night. So by the time they woke up at four o'clock, they'd already had nine or ten hours sleep.

SPEAKER_02

Wow.

SPEAKER_00

So it's that dynamic shift that that that takes place. Uh, and then the the other the other piece is exercise that is not about weight gain or loss or flexibility, or it's just getting your body moving.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And enjoying its connection, especially, I think, if you can do it outside and get in touch with with with nature.

SPEAKER_04

These are all forms of worship. All of it. Offering your physical body to the Lord and honoring the Lord in the in as an embodied self.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. And none of it is what we don't already know.

SPEAKER_03

That's the problem. We already know. We already know. So do what you already know. Yep.

SPEAKER_01

Do what you already know. But then we make it so complicated and we forget what we already know.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. I need to get a I need to get a $1,200 treadmill or $2,500 treadmill.

SPEAKER_04

I need to get unique supplements to help me with these things. Yeah. No, yes.

SPEAKER_00

Just need to go to sleep. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01

Or nap. I feel really convicted. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

I napped every day on my vacation last week. I couldn't believe how tired I was.

SPEAKER_00

Well, when I when I can send people on retreat, yes, I I I warn them, don't be surprised if the very first thing you do is fall asleep. God is not embarrassed or ashamed or angry. It's a gift. Yeah. Okay. Thank you. So good.

SPEAKER_01

Thank you.

SPEAKER_04

All right. Well, this concludes our time for this episode. This concludes our time. And now we close.

SPEAKER_01

And now we close. Gosh, that was so good.

SPEAKER_04

Thank you, Bill.

SPEAKER_01

I'm gonna have to rewatch this one because I genuinely feel so convicted. There's so much Yeah. There's so many things that we I ignore. So thank you, Pastor Bill. You're welcome.

SPEAKER_04

Thank you so much. Good to be with you guys. All right. Thanks for watching. I hope you have a great week. We'll see you guys next week.

SPEAKER_01

Love you guys. See you later.