Dreaming Big, Just Like Our Dads

In this episode, I am joined by international special guest Tal Ramon. Tal and I lost our fathers on the space shuttle Columbia  on February 1, 2003, both at 12 years old. We lost them that day, but as we grew up, we found joy through the pain. We share how life has been since one of our hardest days and how we’ve found the good through faith, music, education, and art and learned from what we’ve walked through in hope to serve others through our stories.

Transcript

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Hi, welcome to Stories That Serve. I'm your host, Laura Husband. We love to share our stories to serve others. And through sharing our stories, we hope to gain empathy, hope, inspiration, and connection. Thanks again for joining me, Tall Ramon, for episode three, STS3, for this new podcast. It's been awesome getting to reflect on our shared experience through walking through losing our dads on the Space Shuttle Columbia to the public and private life that that led to, of our grief and our processing. And now moving into this big thing happened to us, and we're 12 years old, and now we're jumping into life without our dads. And I mentioned last episode, faith is a big foundational point for me, and music is a is a big tool for you and your therapy and processing. What did that look like as you went back to school, grew up? My father, his uh his mother, my grandmother, was a piano teacher. So my father also played piano, and uh he bought his own piano and it was waiting in Israel. And when we came back, I started going through a process with my father's piano, you know, knowing that he sat down and touched the same keys and listened to the same notes uh as I am. And all of a sudden, this was a way to connect with him and kind of feel like I felt like I kind of found my place to let it out. So I would uh I would play and then uh I started you know learning more and more and studying, and uh music became a way of uh a way of life. And uh I started composing and writing songs and and uh it was uh a big part of my process, you know. It gave me kind of my my own way and on my own time and my own terms through music. Sometimes you don't have you don't need words um true to kind of express, express what you're feeling. And that was, I think, a big part, I think for everybody who who needs to um you know go through such a hardship that expressing yourself through your body and through words, through sports, through arts, yeah, is such an important part of it. Um and kind of like looking out for yourself, you know, making sure you're healthy, making sure uh you're your own best friend, that you're drinking enough, that you're eating enough, and then that was kind of our responsibility. And I remember my mother always um, you know, she was very into therapies and holistic health and um kind of uh taking care of the body and the mind and and um and us, you know, we were uh the reason for them to keep going for our mothers to keep uh going for to to give us uh the best uh childhood that we can have, you know, even after this uh tragedy, this loss. Yeah. Um yeah, wow, we I'm thinking about that now. We both really grew close to our moms through this too. Of course. That was a big shift because we lost our dads. We were close to our moms before, I think both of us already were, but this solidified that in so many more ways of that closeness. And yeah, the relationship with my mom, too. I think I watched her grieve, I watched her speak at events, I watched her she did it, like you said, they did it for us. My mom wrote a book very soon after everything happened, while it was fresh on her mind. Not be honestly, she wasn't trying to. Multiple people approached her and asked her to, and so she finally decided to dedicate it to me and Matthew. Is and she's like, This is and I'll do this while it's fresh on my mind, you know, and shared the story. Uh and yeah, I think too, as a 12-year-old, it was hard watching my mom have her grief. Now I'm like, that makes sense. That you know, people cry, and and I cried, but it's hard watching your mom go through that too. I think we carried some of that too, of of watching our our parent hurting because they both had a beautiful marriage. Your mom and dad had a beautiful marriage, my mom and dad had a beautiful marriage. Such an uh in love, yeah. Both of them, both of our parents were, you know, yeah. Each of our mothers was uh this pillar was strength. And sometimes um you they they would break, you know. Um and I think it's important that they didn't hide it from us. I don't I don't think your mom did, I don't think my mom did. Maybe there were certain points where they were kind of sheltering us, but I think um we did go through this as a family. And for me, um, my older brother Asaf, we were just two years apart, and um, he became kind of like the man of the family, you know. He was the older brother, and he um he was like looking out for us, for my mother as well, and for me and my younger brother and my younger sister. And um he took uh he took on the role of uh kind of um you know being our our friend as well as a brother and being uh being there for us, supporting us. And he he he did that in such um beautiful way and very um devoted way. And so uh my brother he followed uh my father's footsteps and uh he achieved his own dream uh uh of a childhood dream. He wanted to be like my father, a uh fighter pilot for the Israeli uh Air Force, and he did it. You know, the expectations were you know higher than ever, and he had to prove himself and uh and he did. He really went all in and did everything that he could to be the best, and he finished first in this class, yeah. Um, so I remember this was yeah, this was of course, you know, such a such a proud and happy moment for our family. I think it was one of the most happiest moments of uh my life. If I recall, like we were going through the happiest moments of my life. That was when uh my brother also achieved his dream. And I think when he did that, it kind of like proved to everybody that you can you can go through hardship and uh and still be able to do hard things and to achieve what your what your dreams are, what you want, what your wants are and and what your life, you know, what do you want from life to do something meaningful. And so he did, and and um he became such a big role model for so many people, uh, you know, after enduring such a loss and going after my father's uh passion of flight. After he finished his flight course, uh there was a training accident, and our family um had to deal again with a tragedy. Um you know, so so big again. Yeah, six years after, only six years after uh, you know, uh the Colombia disaster, we uh we realized that we are facing another big hardship in our life, and and um I think this time it felt like it was below the bell. It was felt like you know, it was just uh too much. Similar accident type thing too. It just He died at at year at age 21 and a half, and we remember, you know, those that half very, you know, because it was such a young age, you know, so every moment counted. And um, yeah, and the whole state of Israel was mourning with us again, and again, you know, the the public grief, the the national grief combined with our own personal loss. Right. Um it's yeah, it was devastating. I remember it because he was like an older brother to me. He was such a comfort to everyone, and he really did take on that role in a lot of ways for people, and I watched him do that in your family, and just so kind to everyone. And I I was a sophomore in college, I think, and heard the news after cheer practice and literally lost it in the gym at Trinity. Like I was I I remember as we were talking about we remember where we were, I remember where I was when I heard that, and it felt like I'd lost a big brother. And I know it's even more for you, of course. It just felt so devastating after having walked through what we all did to have that then happen. And again, in such a similar way in a public way, it just yeah, it's it was another, you know, big shock. Yeah, nobody was ready for it. Nobody was ready for it. And um in Asaf, you know, he was uh he was really my best friend. We we played together, we I would uh teach him the songs that I would write. And um what happened afterwards is that again the music saved me, you know, gave me um my reason, you know, my reason to keep going was the music. And I started performing already at that age. Um and when I realized that the music, the the the the lyrics, the songs were affecting people and giving them connection, giving them uh giving them a chance to kind of uh get their own kind of um clues and and ways about how to deal with uh their own their own hardship. Basically songs are small stories that serve really. There we go. Yeah. Serving people through sharing that. Yeah, in that way. You know, uh was there for me and this and uh and I decided I would uh record an album and do it in their name, in in my father's name and in my brother's name and and their memory. Um because such, you know, these songs were so connected to what uh what I went through and the kind of the healing that uh process that I was going through. Yes. So um this actually this this first album uh that was released in 2016, it uh it was taken to space, which is crazy. I mean um That's neat. Yeah so I released my first album, and of course that that was my way to commemorate them. But uh my mother's way to commemorate my father's and brother's memory was through educational programs, through continuing my father's work, basically. And and uh what she did is uh she founded this uh foundation, it's called the Ramon Foundation after in their name. And it's about teaching children the values and um and giving them opportunities to fulfill their dreams, to become leaders, to be in initiators, to um to make a difference, uh, and all all this in the inspiration of my brother and father, and to kind of like prove themselves that they can be what they want to be, and that they have um a back for it, you know, and the Ramon Foundation became that that you know, that foundation that kind of backed up these children from all over Israel, from the south to the north, secular, religious, all different religions, different colors, different areas. Uh, and um when everybody was um was on board, this thing grew very fast. And and today we are, you know, uh tens and thousands of children are being affected and uh learning about um my father, brother, and um and kind of getting inspiration from them and getting opportunities to do something great with their lives. There's many different programs, of course. I wouldn't go too too much into it, but if you'd like, um I would tell the uh people back home that you're more than welcome to look up the Ramon Foundation and see what we what we do. We'll include the the link in our show notes too. Great, yeah. Um but it's from kindergarten to high schoolers, and all of this is uh space education for to make a better future, to give people something to hope for, you know? Yeah, I had the chance um to go to Israel and see this, go to the Space Science Symposium and and see a glimpse of of what Rona had done with the Ramon Foundation and what had been built. And a lot of kids that just remind me of my dad and your dad who had big dreams and and are able to really get to play in creative and scientific ways that can propel their dreams forward and give them opportunities to see themselves in those kind of roles and and uh it's amazing, yeah. Yeah, it's also a way that's it's a language, you know. It's a I mean uh maybe it has to do with space, but maybe through what you're doing through the activity, you're learning how to be a team uh player, yeah, or you're learning how to lead a group, or how to speak uh about and debate about what you believe in. The years have passed, and um I uh started working on my second album, and I would always come back from the recording process and uh come back to my mother and kind of like show her what I've been doing and getting her a 411, what that what she uh thought about it. And there was one time when uh she did stop me and said, Um sorry, Todd, I have something to tell you, and she told me that she was diagnosed with cancer. And again, you know, my heart dropped, and and we we realized that we have another uh huge challenge in our in our life. But this time it was uh it was a fight, yeah, it wasn't a shock. Uh this time we had to fight um for uh time for time together. And um and I released my uh my mother, you know, she didn't let me um stop the recording process. She she wanted me to keep on going with my dream, and and I and so I did and and I kept on recording and and um and of course I released the the my second album, which is called It's Not Over Yet. Um I released it and I um and uh dedicated it to her memory after she had passed. And um today I I lean on uh on music again, you know. And it's just uh it's my partner for life, I guess. Yeah. I walking through one parent and then another, it's just yeah. But you know, I am I have experienced so much loss in my in my life. Yeah, I'm a happy person. I party, I go and and and you know, I dance and and I have a good life, and I can say the same thing about my brother and sister, and that is all because I was blessed with such great parents, and I am so grateful that I had the time that I had with them. Yeah, I learned so much, and I carry that, you know, until this day, they're still with us. They're still with us, and they're still affecting us, even if they're not here, you know, physically. I thank you for sharing that. I know it's not easy ever to rehash these things. And I walked through a lot of loss too after our dads, and and uh I grieved with your family too on in those losses. And I think I did a visit as well. I did, yeah. You came a few times to uh to Israel to visit us, and it was great. So many good memories, and even playing piano together and um being there and being with your mom even and uh really special times that again you just you're so thankful, you cherish every moment you have. You just never don't ever not cherish your moments, big and small. I also I did a number count at some point. I think I lost 30 plus people after my dad. So I walked through a number of family members and friends and um uh you know, I don't want to go into all the details at the moment, but just walked through a lot of grief after, you know, a big public one. One of the other big public ones I went through was losing five uh cast members in a car accident, you know, the week before we closed our show. I I be I'm now an actor, singer, dancer, do musicals, stage film, and I was doing the show Texas outdoor musical, and we were a week from closing, and all of a sudden we lost five of our people that were in our cast and we're close to, and hit again with an unexpected moment of a bunch of people we love and they're living their dream and then they're gone. And again, God being faithful through that that night, finding that out, it's just continually. I agree with you, joy and pain. Like there's there's joy in the grief, and there's joy in the pain too. Like, I I still enjoy my life, I still have great moments. It's both. It's both. You have to yeah, and I would have to find something to live for, have to find that fire to keep you going. And um, and that is a fight that everyone, everyone who has lost somebody dear has to go through to find their meaning, find their fire that keeps them here, keeps them, you know, living their best life. And I know that's what you know, my parents and that's that's what your your father would have wanted for you, you know. We are fulfilling what they wanted in the end. Yeah. And they were such happy people, so you know, such party people. They did have good times. Yeah, they they were always laughing, and of course, that is what they would have wanted if uh for us, you know. Yes, yeah, they wouldn't want us constantly sitting in in grief. And it is okay to have it, but it it's both. It's it is both. And I think the hot and the cold, and it's like some days it's changes. Literally both, yeah. It's it could be even the a moment or a second where it's both. I've I think now reflecting back on the grief then, I think maybe God does something to protect us with our grief because some of the stuff that I didn't process then, I'm processing now. And it's like, okay, now it feels more right to have these realizations. Like, for example, I I think at 12 I felt like I had to be vigilant that in just recently I was realizing that I had a vigilance kind of feeling where I'd always have to be aware of what's going on and make sure I'm okay, make sure my mom's okay, make sure everybody around me is okay. I'm good, we're good. I would grieve, but I always felt like I was like, I want to take care of my mom, take care of people, make sure you're good, you know. And I think God started like stripping back the layers of that even in the past six months, and was like, you don't have to be vigilant all the time. Like I'm I'm there for you, and you can rest, and you can trust that I've got this, and you can take moments that you don't have to be on edge and making sure you are put together or other people are. I think it led to some per perfectionism, maybe even that wasn't healthy, like always thinking I had to do it right because you know I wanted to make sure things were okay. But there's such a release too in not feeling like you have to be perfect anymore. And even through being an artist, you realize imperfection actually is a great thing. It's it's what's interesting. Like we don't do robotic melodies, we don't do robotic acting performances or dance routines. Like if it was robotic and mechanical, it's the little flourish, or it's the little like change in your voice, or it's the little um way that you react to something on camera as an actor. Like those are the interesting moments, and it's not what someone would define as perfect, it's it's the imperfections, it's the authenticity. And I think some of that started coming up later of like, okay, like through this grief process, I don't have to be vigilant anymore. I can let go, I can trust that God's in control, and I can enjoy these moments where I don't feel like I, you know, know how to make it all okay all the time. And it's okay. Yeah. Do you think maybe because you know, uh when people go through something so hard that um as they grow up, they kind of have to deal with uh louder volume kind of of their inside kind of uh dilemmas, you know, kind of uh trying to be um with one, you know, uh kind of like trying to look out for your own feet, not to trip yourself, you know, kind of like okay, you had you said you were dealing with like wanting everything to be okay, right? That's what you were looking for all the time. So you kind of want to fulfill that and uh no matter what, and then you learn that it's okay that you're sad now, or it's okay that you know nothing is going right, right? And the next day, you know, and I think once you do go through uh hardship in your life, you have kind of that proportion, you know, the the objectivity, kind of looking out at yourself. It's it's reflective. Like as you get older, there's just grief is not linear. I think it's like you you have those moments, and then I'm 34 years old now, and I'm like, what? I thought I already processed this, but it's like a new thing because of a new a new experience has arisen, you know, and so through those things we learn more about ourselves and learn more about what how that might have affected us or how we maybe perceived something at the time, and now we're I mean, even having sympathy for me being 12, like seeing 12-year-old. I'm I've mentioned, I think, in a previous episode, you know, seeing a 12-year-old and realizing that how young that is. Yeah, I didn't feel that young. But now I see a 12-year-old, I'm like, oh my gosh, I I'm I'm feeling the empathy even for my younger self that I didn't maybe at the time I was like, Laura, you should have it together. And it's like, no, you're literally 12. Like you're not gonna have it all together, and you're not gonna understand everything going on. I don't understand everything now, but there's more freedom in knowing that now. It's I'm always learning and I always want to be learning. And it's it's encouraging to know that we have what we need for today. God will give us what we need for every day, and we just take that as it comes. And and like you said, yeah, there's it's both. There's joy and there's hard things, and and do you want to share maybe with uh with everyone what first of all, what good things came to your life, you know, but because of this, or what have you learned from this? Yeah, I think that strengthens you I think for me it's number one, God does show up when you call on him because those could be really nice. I I've mentioned before, like people can say nice Bible verses, but like, are they really true? Does God really show up? Is he there for you? I've seen that be true. I've not felt alone. I've never felt alone through everything I've walked through. And I know that if I face anything in the future that's hard or even good or successful, like I know I'm not gonna be alone. I know God's gonna be with me and he's my hope. No matter what I have or don't have in this lifetime, I have him. And I also have loved over the years diving into the creative world, you know, I've with dance and with acting and singing, and just different doors have opened to I I did stage for a long time and now I'm doing more film, and I just officially opened my production company Sanded Star Studios LLC, which is I'm the executive producer of this podcast. There you go. Stories that serve. So this is the first thing, even through my production. It's also a dream come true. Yeah, it's a dream come true, it really is. And I have a short film I'm working on and some other projects, but it's it's dreaming and being creative. God's creative, you know, and I I feel like I'm aligning with him in that way by also being creative and fulfilling yourself. Yeah, yeah, it is very um fulfilling and feeds your soul in so many ways. So what about you? What's what joy has come from this? Where where are you at now? Well, I can say for for me today, um, I I also have a few lanes, two lanes mostly. Um one is the public one, which is through the foundation. And uh it's about it's about spreading the love, spreading the light, spreading and giving uh you know children opportunities to fulfill themselves, you know, and seeing how all these children are um brought together just because of you know my father and his mission and and in that inspiration, look how many you know smiles my father brought to this world and my brother, you know, people who uh go to the Air Force, you know, everybody learns about uh my father and my my brother in in Israel's uh culture, my mother, they're all such great heroes. Uh and so for me, I I'm on the board of the foundation. I'm making sure that um my mother's dream of f of making my father's dream true. So I'm continuing that with uh my younger brother Iftah and uh my younger sister Noah, and each in the in our own way, kind of continuing that spreading the love and the light uh that they have shined. Um because they are super inspirational people, and uh, I mean, I just need to speak about them for to get some kid to you know light up and and uh and smile and his eyes, you know, open up and he's dreaming about different things and and that he can he he believes that he can do it. And so for me that is such an amazing thing to to have in my life. And it is what my mother has left me and my father, my brother, to keep their memory alive and to do positive things with what they have done, um, and to bring you know happiness into life because uh you don't see the children, you know, sad uh in these programs. You see them, you know, hearing about my father and brother and and you know being very inspired. And it's it's a happy ending. It's even I can even say it's a happy ending, you know. Yeah, that's amazing. So you represent both your mom, dad, and brother in in that way through the Ramon Foundation. And you said there's another lane. Right. The other lane is is my own personal lane, which is uh which is through art, through music, through public speaking, which I do now, and I've been sharing uh my story and playing music uh for different uh communities all over the world, really. Uh and this is what uh brought me here to speak as well, here um in in Houston. And I'm glad that we had this opportunity. I mean, this is uh wonderful, and I'm really grateful that we had each other throughout our lives. Like, think about um if we didn't have that. I mean, we have somebody in our life that, you know, we were the same age, we went through this whole process together, you know, from start to finish, and and uh so much of our life is you know just parallel, and I I feel like there is um not a lot of people that can understand me the way that you can. And I I bet it's like the same way around. Yeah, yeah. Um, and so I'm really grateful for that as well. I'm grateful for you, Tal. Thank you. Thank you for having me here. I I agree with you. There's a special bond as the Columbia families that we have, and and us two, just even walking through this together, it is a blessing to have someone who you don't have to explain something to. They already know. And yeah, we've we really have walked some parallel train tracks of of things and ceremonies, and it's like we can just look and be like, you okay, you know, it's just things like that. It's it's a blessing to have, and I'm so thankful for it. And thank you for being here. This is an incredible way to start this podcast. And and on that note, how do you think what you're doing now, your your story, what you're living right now is serving others? Well, these two lanes of it uh are for me the way to keep going. Uh, that's the fire, you know, keeping me going. Uh, both um the foundation and art and music, giving me a chance to, you know, keep dreaming, keep uh going for the next uh, you know, goal. And uh the Ramon Foundation gets bigger and and um and does more more programs and more children are affiliated and growing up from and growing up with our you know with our family. Yeah, being a part of our family in a way. Um and so I would I'm uh gonna keep on with these two lanes which I hold uh close to my heart, and and that's what keeps me strong, I think. Yeah, throughout. Thank you, Tall. And uh with that, I just want to thank you. This was this has been amazing just to sit down and and get to visit and and share our hearts and process as we continually walk through this. And where can people find you and and you know follow along with what you're doing? Uh well uh on online, uh definitely. You're all welcome to uh go to the streaming services and uh look up Tall Ramon and uh for the foundation, the Ramon Foundation, um, and just Google it and you will find uh all of our programs. Amazing. Thank you. Yeah, and we'll attach the links in our show notes. Thanks again, Tal, and thank you guys for joining us again for Stories That Serve. I'm your host, Lara Husband. We will see you next time.