What would you add to the book, 3 years later?- Ask Nathan by How to be Second

What Do Words Really Mean? Nathan discusses how blurry words create real damage. From separating leadership from authority, to dismantling the myth of “average,” Nathan reflects on the concepts he’d add to How to Be Second after years of conversation and lived experience. 

Hey, this is Nathan Young, founder and author of How to be Second, and this is Ask Nathan, where I answer questions about being and growing as a second in command + a Second by identity, and tear apart myths around those ideas and other concepts. I’m practicing communicating the value of Seconds so you can do so for yourself and others, with even more clarity.

Transcript

Nathan Young 0:00

Hey, this is Nathan Young. Founder and author of How to Be Second, and this is Ask Nathan where I answer questions about being and growing as a second in command and a second by identity and tear apart myths around those ideas and other concepts. I'm practicing communicating the value of seconds, so you can do so for yourself and others with even more clarity. If you're curious and wanna know more, listen on. If you know you're ready to invest in yourself and go together, connect with us.

Nathan Young-4 0:30

All right. Nathan, I have a question for you. You define six concepts at the beginning of how to be second. They are. Tell me. No, I'm just kidding. Oh, okay. I have 'em right here. Okay. Thank God. Okay. Competence energy, identity, role, talent, and H2B2. You have been talking to people about this second stuff for about three years now, and after all of those conversations, what is another concept or two that you would add to the book? I, not concepts necessarily that I would add core Concepts. I would love to pull more myths apart. So I would almost like to create more nuance around things that I think are too many ideas, stuffed into too few words. So one of the ones that I've been tackling a lot of course with Secondness is this idea of your identity is not your role. And so the taking apart the self and the jacket that we wear professionally or personally or whatever, That is like a, that's a concept in the book. I think we, we touch on a decent amount already. Another one that has been a favorite of mine recently is this idea of pulling apart leadership and authority. I touch on the idea of like followership and what healthy and unhealthy followership is. And like we're in an age right now where follower has a new meaning that it ever used to have. We haven't replaced the word follower with something else. So we still are equating these things, but they don't mean the same thing anymore. Follower used to mean something that like, was deeply important. Like disciple or mentee. Or if you were a follower, you could become a martyr. It's that level of like follower meant something serious and real. And now follower means like a hundred thousand of them on Twitter or X or whatever the fuck it's called now. And like I don't care. I don't use it anyway. The point is you, it just, it's not, those aren't the same. They're not even in the same concept sphere. So there's something there. The thing that I have pulled apart from that is to be like, Hey, there's leaders and there's leadership. And there are authorities and people in power. And those two things are not the same. And so we regularly as seconds are leaders, like we do the things of Leadership. Also weirdly, we are regularly not in power. We are serving those in power in authority, and those two things rarely call for each other. So there are other concepts like that, but that one is one that is obviously on the tip of my tongue all the time right now, of this idea of being like the other one. I think it helps seconds because I think it's our particular insanity and we were just talking about this recently and that is this idea of average versus common. And that we use the word average all the Time. And it's not, it doesn't mean what it means. And so As seconds, we are expert generalists. But you said this so well before, like our line of shame is that we're a seven out of 10 and we perceive the difference between seven and 10 as like we're a little bit better than average. But we know that we are at mastery. And I'm like, no. Average doesn't mean what you think it means in this context. Like you think you're a little better than average, but you are leagues better than the common person. Yeah. Like average is not, it doesn't deserve a place in the conversation. And so this idea of like average doesn't mean common. You're comparing yourself to average, which doesn't exist. That's not real. So the bell curve doesn't look like this. The bell curve of the common looks like This. So if you're a seven, you're already in the 90th percentile. Not the slightly better than the every man. The every man is way back. Yeah. And so those are the couple of concepts. Those a long, that was a diatribe. But if I had the ability to add things to the book, it would be to add more nuance to words that we are. Faced with constantly navigating all the roles that we do. And our particular insanity around those things. And I would be like, the reason you're insane is because we've lost meaning in these things. Yeah. That was a lot of Things that you were just talking about in a very short amount of time, and I'm sure we'll take each one of those and pull them apart a little bit more later. But what I was hoping to direct you to, which you very, you summed up very nicely there in the last 20 seconds, was of all the things you were talking about, what I felt like you were really talking about was Words. like the importance of these words and being on the same page about what we're talking about. And so could you speak a little more to that of maybe an example from your own life when the defining of a word was like a turning point for you, like getting on the same page with a word. Does that make sense? I can think of a bunch of examples, so let me say one and then steer me a little Further. Getting on the same page about the concept of love Languages. Which is interesting because like it came up in our relationship Yeah. But has carried through as something I have found valuable in every situation, relationship, working. Like not in our marriage, but like in my working relationships, in my friend relationships, in my, when I'm like literally just like my colleagues. Or even our kids or whatever. I think of that thing and like having that language and having it known between that person and me. This shared understanding. Has been like literally I would consider game changing. In so many of my relationships where I'm like, mondo and I were talking about this on the one second podcast where he was like, I'm an active service person. I was like, I'm an active service person, and he said some like nice things and I was like, thanks, I don't need those again for another six months. And he was like, oh, yeah. I guess that's what like we, yeah. Just that idea of knowing him, knowing and me knowing. That's just like my friend Mondo and me, and we're podcast hosts together and also we just hang out and, that still has been so impactful. So that's my long answer to that. And it might not even be the thing we're talking about. Do you feel like there is a uniqueness to a second relationship with the nuance of words? Oh, yes. Oh, yes. I think that goes beyond Personality. I'm a person who loves detail. But seconds like we're inspired by the visions and needs of other people. Our strong desire to bring those things into being, to execute on those things, to realize those things. Means that we need more to know that we're on the same page. That's a really positive way to look at it. I also would say that a core piece of the identity of seconds is like a pretty, pretty strong risk Aversion. And so I also think it's really important to understand these words for seconds, to understand words in general. And to know that we're aligned on these concepts because we don't wanna fuck up. And that's really, important. especially when we're being held accountable. To basically, executing someone else's. Vision. Yeah. Which 99% of the time comes in the form of words. Yeah. Yeah, that's right. Sometimes we get pictures and diagrams. Sometimes, every now and then, most of the time you get vague words. Numbers. Numbers, sometimes numbers. Yep. Most of the time numbers that they made up and are wrong most of the time, words they made up end are wrong. Yeah. Yeah. There. Most of the time we are doing stuff for people who have vague images and feelings in their heads. And bodies, not even heads bodies, I should say. And then we are trying to, we must do the work of drawing those things out. Into shared understanding. And we are regularly using dull tools to do and like words like, oh, make these people leaders. Those don't mean the same thing. And so adding nuance to those things. I'm gonna gotta go down a whole thing. That's that's my shtick. Very recently I was having this conversation, you know how I love lived experience stories. I was having this conversation the other day with someone being like. We were having a leadership team meeting with eight people, and I said, no, you weren't. And they were like, what do you mean? And I said, you have a 30 person team and you were having a leadership team meeting with eight People. You were not. And they were like, and I said. I'm not saying that those eight people weren't leaders. What I am saying is they are not authorities, which means you were having a conversation with a bunch of people who have no power. You have not given them power. It's actually worse for everyone, including them that they're in the room. Because it's like you're inviting them to the conversation and letting them know by proxy accidentally that they must remain silent. Because you have not actually given them power authority. So like knowing the difference Is, I should say not knowing the difference is weirdly abusive. Like you're not doing your work well. And you're not treating people well because you don't have the nuance. Which is a weird, and they obviously in the conversation person was like. Oh shit. I was wondering why they were so mad. So anyway, that's a, if you're the person who has a story I just told, I didn't tell your name, that is the one danger about all lived experience stories. As we wrap up this conversation around this idea of the concepts that are at the beginning of the how to be second book and words having nuance and everything along those lines that we've just talked about, where do you feel the pull to explore the intersection of those things more? For this year, the main thing that I wanna make sure that at how to be second we are working on constantly, is that we are figuring out, we're solving the problem, if you will, of a second, having the ability to simply communicate their value to other people. Whether that's, like I said, a friend or a coworker, or the person who is in authority in their space. Job interviews Whatever. And so it's part of the reason we do the one second podcast. Because I want to have a second and a OneIC. These two people with these different identities who are typically in working relationships. It's why I do into the deep end to explore the value of ourselves and who we are. And so how we understand that for ourselves and communicate it to other people better, but like solving that problem of how do I simply which is not necessarily short. Yeah. But how do I simply communicate my value to other people? And I would say everything we're doing. This, the one second podcast into the deep end. All of that stuff is on the track of, that's what we're working on the hardest right now. Which is not, it feels like you should Nathan, sit down and write. Don't you write Yeah, sure. I write People are hard. People are hard, and we're gonna end it right there.

Samantha 13:03

Hey, it's Nathan again. If you made it to the end, that's awesome. If you have a question, shoot it over to contact @howtobesecond.com or just touch base with anyone you know at how to be second. If you're first in command and you're interested in understanding more on your own, check out our one second podcast. If you're ready to invest in yourself and go together, reach out directly. If you resonated with how I explained seconds and secondness, and think you might be one, you can check out our am I a second assessment on our website, howtobesecond.com /assessment It is directional, not definitive. You could also grab our book, how to Be Second from our website or Amazon or almost anywhere you like to buy books, including on audio read by the authors, myself and David Hartman. Either way, if you're glad this work exists and want it to continue existing, you can support how to be second at howtobesecond.com /support Thanks again, i'm looking forward to your next question.