FCMD/SCMD Trust Building- Ask Nathan by How to be Second

Nathan and Samantha dig into what actually creates trust between a First and a Second, arguing it’s less about systems and more about consistent, unstructured time together like random phone calls, walks, and conversations without an agenda. From there, they explore how tools like work appreciation languages and weekly alignment meetings add clarity, but only after a real human foundation is built.

Hey, this is Nathan Young, founder and author of How to be Second, and this is Ask Nathan, where I answer questions about being and growing as a second in command + a Second by identity, and tear apart myths around those ideas and other concepts. I’m practicing communicating the value of Seconds so you can do so for yourself and others, with even more clarity.

Transcript

Nathan Young 0:00

Hey, this is Nathan Young. Founder and author of How to Be Second, and this is Ask Nathan where I answer questions about being and growing as a second in command and a second by identity and tear apart myths around those ideas and other concepts. I'm practicing communicating the value of seconds, so you can do so for yourself and others with even more clarity. If you're curious and wanna know more, listen on. If you know you're ready to invest in yourself and go together, connect with us.

0:30

All right, Nathan, I have a question for you. What tools can a First and Second use to build trust? Bowling? Uh, actually it's a joke. It's not a joke. Um, time, time together. I'm gonna say a bunch of other tactical things, but the answer realistically is you have to spend time together and it has to be somewhat unstructured. That's like the foundational thing. You have to spend kind of just general unstructured time. Like you have to go out to dinner or you have to go bowling, or you have to go for a walk or you have to, whatever. And it can't be like, I have these five things I need to get right. Like you kind of just have to go for a walk. You kind of just have to get on the phone. Charlie Munger and Warren Buffett built their relationship on, first of all, a lunch that their wives made them attend. That's how they met. And then they called each other like every day and they had lunch together all the time. They lived really far apart for a while. And so they called each other like all the time. They were always on the phone. And I remember Scott McCabe, I was on the phone with him every single day all the time. I had a great relationship with Scott and I talked to Chris constantly. I talked to Mondo constantly now, like I've built in all of my best relationships even the ones that went sour, like while they were awesome, they have a foundation of just like talking about shit all the time. And I'm not even necessarily like a get in my business, like tell all my personal stories kind of person when it comes to business stuff, I tend to be a little more, um, you know, above the table. I do want to talk a little bit more like businessy esque, whatever, and have those kinds of conversations, even when I'm out generally walking with a, whoever it is that I'm working with. But it feels like that has been a you just, so what do we want to accomplish over the next three years? What is this thing that you're thinking about? And then you just let 'em go. And I think from there, don't be intimidated by anything they say. Which can be really hard 'cause everything that they say has the potential to be a mountain of work. But also 90% of what they say, they're just, they're just processing and they don't really have anywhere else to process. 'cause the stuff that they're processing out loud is really scary to almost everyone else. And so that's the first thing. Setting just a foundation of like, you're gonna talk, you're gonna say words. I'm gonna say words and then that's, and that's it. Mostly unstructured. Above that there are some like more tactical things. So like in matchmaking we use a grouping of four assessments and we always start with languages of appreciation, work appreciation languages because the five love languages is not necessarily a thing you wanna tell people, you know? And then we gotta take out physical touch every single time. So we might as well just stick with work appreciation language. But that's really, really important. 'cause some people are words of affirmation and some people are gifts. And so like if you're constantly trying to buy gifts or give gifts or whatever, but the other person is words of affirmation. Literally, you're speaking different languages past each other. So it doesn't matter how much you like each other, you literally can't hear each other. You're just, and speaking in foreign languages. Those are things that we use really defined like ways for, first of all, you to spend time with each other, but then also like how to communicate with each other and how to appreciate the work that each other is doing and sort of like what to understand what the other person is trying to tell you. And so it's that, and then on top of all that, to have an actually structured, like a same page. Every week with a similar agenda where you are getting through the business agenda, whatever, on a consistent basis. 'cause whether it's words or acts of service or gifts or whatever, like knowing the work is getting done, having some ability to trust that like the money that's being invested is being used wisely on both sides, right? Because both people are investing. And so for both people to know that like that investment is being taken seriously is very valuable no matter what language you speak. So that would be my scaffold of random ass time doing stuff, like go play pickleball. Great. And then, take some assessments, try to understand each other a little better. Then put the actual like business structure on top of that. Most people just go straight to the business structure and then we know how often that engine divorce and it's like most of the time. Everything you're saying makes sense. And I've seen it work and I know that you have a lot of lived experience with all of this. Now that you've said those three things out loud, I am just kind of butting up against like how much remote work we all do now. And so I don't think there's anything more to say to elaborate on what needs to be done, but more just can you speak into a little bit the intentionality you've had to find or seek out because so much work is remote right now. Oh yes. Oh. I have one guy that I work with right now where. I have a relatively constrained amount of hours, and I'm pretty comfortable working remote. Like there's a plan, we have a to-do list, whatever. Our relationship even in the last couple months, when I just started calling him randomly for like 20 minutes, three, four times a week. I would just call him like, for no reason. I would just call him, Hey man, how are you doing? And then invariably it's 20 minutes of conversation. We both feel like, oh, now we're on the same page. Like there was no agenda, there was no whatever. I literally just called and said, how's it going? And the amount of, like, I was feeling relatively comfortable because I, I was fine. I was like, well, we're just not talking. Because why would we, I have this many hours, I'm gonna deploy them to that. We know what the plan is, we have our same page, whatever. And it just fundamentally, it changed the relationship to just call him just randomly. But it does. Hilariously, he almost never calls me, but he always loves that I just randomly call him. And he's always like, oh yeah, we talk all the time. And I'm like, yeah, 'cause I have it in my calendar to call you quote unquote randomly. That was gonna be my next question is do you feel like this is the Second's job? Hmm. It sucks, but a thousand percent. I remember telling one guy, I have a story about everything. I remember telling this one guy who was like so mad. And I'm not saying there weren't other bits of the relationship that were genuinely shit, and that's fine. But he was just like, we have our same page scheduled. I'm at the office. They're never here. What am I supposed to do? And I said, drive to their house. I was like, that's your job. Your job is to show up. Do two things. Your job is to show up wherever it takes to get the relationship and the job done. Your Second job is to own your value. Literally your Second job, not your second in command job. Your Second job is to own your value and look across the table at the person and be like, Hey, you're treating me like shit. This is not okay. This is disrespectful. But if you're not willing to show up, like you have to be willing to show up. 'cause the first in command is handing you money. They think their investment is done and that you just serve them. The only person who gets to break that cycle is us, and the first way we have to break the cycle is to appreciate the investment and then go, Also, I'm a person. But yeah, it is our job. It's our job. Both of those things are our job. I imagine that's incredibly hard for a Second, who's also like quality time. Yeah. Feeling like they have to like constantly fight for that. Oh, totally. Can you imagine? That First was probably a gifts person. I bet that Second was paid like really well. And the First thought I'm paying them so well, like, can't they tell how much I appreciate them? I just don't have time for, you know, whatever. And then the Second was high quality time. Like why won't they just spend time with me? I would take a smaller salary if they were just like, if I could have this. And they just felt so resentful. And yeah, you just speak right past each other, but sadly, yes, it is our job. What do you wish a First would know listening to this conversation? Hmm. Two things. How both people are investing. Most Firsts that I know are really genuine and they're the first person to be like, nobody works for me. They all work with me. Yeah, right. Which is bullshit. That's not true. Like that's not true. Nobody else can fire you. AKA, everyone works for you. So like, let's not dismiss the power dynamic, but most first in commands, I know do feel like that. And they want people to feel like that. They want people to feel like this is how things are. And so I don't think most people are like, I'm giving you money, do my bidding minion person. And also I do think there's a difference between that and especially with the second in command, having a real recognition that like they're taking just as much risk as you are, that there's like a social contract that you're both entering into here. Not just like you handing them money and taking this big bet, but them handing like their dedication and labor and whatever to you in a really substantial way. And they're taking a huge bet that like you're someone worth being paired up with and like that's very scary. And so that they're both investing. Because you think that understanding would lead towards more trust? Yeah. Yeah. I just feel like it would, I don't just feel like it would, I don't feel like I need to guess at this. I feel like anytime that I have been able to have this type of conversation, I feel like this has been true with Mondo, with Ryan, that the dynamic of the conversation is just different. You really are talking to a peer. Yes, there's a power dynamic, but that really does get shuffled to the back. Like, you really can have like open, honest dialogue. And so like these conversations about work appreciation languages or whatever comes out on top of that understanding that you're both investing that person to person connection. And so anytime I've had that, having the conversation on top of that about like, well, how do we each care about the way we move in the world and speaking to each other and whatever is much more natural. Then trying to force that down from just like a, I'm a minion who works for you, and then like, and so, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Lovely. Well, I think we'll end it right there.

Nathan Young 10:57

Hey, it's Nathan again. If you made it to the end, that's awesome. If you have a question, shoot it over to contact @howtobesecond.com if you're glad this work exists and want it to continue existing, you can support how to be second at howtobesecond.com /support Thanks again, i'm looking forward to your next question.