Vermont! First State to Pass Ban on Parkinson's-Linked Pesticide Paraquat

In this episode of the Parkinson’s Policy Podcast, we sit down with Representative Brian Cina, a Vermont legislator and sponsor of the bill to ban paraquat, a widely used herbicide linked to Parkinson’s disease and other serious health concerns.

We discuss the growing body of research connecting environmental toxins to Parkinson’s, the policy efforts underway in Vermont, and why advocates, scientists, patients, and lawmakers are pushing for stronger protections against harmful chemical exposure. Rep. Cina shares insights into the legislative process, the challenges of advancing environmental health policy, and why public awareness and grassroots advocacy matter.

This conversation highlights the intersection of science, public health, and policy—and the importance of taking action to reduce exposure to potentially dangerous environmental chemicals.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:12

Welcome everyone back to another episode of the Parkinson's Policy Podcast, where we advocate together to raise awareness and advance meaningful policy for the Parkinson's community. From Washington, D.C., straight from the U.S. Capitol and beyond, we bring together senators, representatives, researchers, and advocates to amplify the voices of people living with Parkinson's disease and their caregivers. My name is Dr. George Ackerman, Sharon's son and founder of TogetherforSharon.com, joined by my co-host, Margaret Preston, the president of Power Over Parkinson's, and we want to welcome our beautiful and inspiring audience with us today. Welcome back.

SPEAKER_02 0:51

Thank you, George. I have the distinct honor to be able to introduce our next guest, President Brian China, represents Chittenden County and is a progressive Democrat in Vermont. He attended Dartmouth College, where he was a senior fellow and graduated with an AB in music. In 1998, he moved to Burlington, Vermont, and served as an American Corps member at Spectrum Youth and Family Services. From 1999 to 2003, China continued working in human services, providing restorative justice and outreach to youth and families. From 2003 to 2005, he attended the University of Vermont, earning a Master of Social Work degree. Since 2010, he has operated private practice and clinical social works psychotherapy located in downtown Burlington. Gina is a community organizer and activist. He co-founded Is Good, a neighborhood organization that has reduced crime through gardening and other community services service activities since 2005. From 2018 to 2019, China served on the Vermont Artificial Intelligence Task Force as the member with social work expertise in human rights and ethics. China served as a school board member from 2014 to 2017. He led the search for a new superintendent in 2015 and was the chair of the finance committee. Representative China, thank you so much for being with us today.

SPEAKER_00 2:11

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 2:12

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 2:13

Well, we're really honored to have you here and excited for this discussion on advocacy. Um is there something that drove you into going into the field of politics, but also possibly in the area of also raising awareness for Parkinson's disease?

SPEAKER_01 2:28

Well, I'm a social worker, as you just heard, um, in my bio. And as a social worker, I work with individuals and mostly with individuals and families and groups of people, and I work within organizations. Um, and I also have worked with communities in terms of community organizing. But I could do all of that work my whole career, and it would help people and make make a difference. But if I can if I can engage with my clients and colleagues in creating social change and changing the structures of government and changing our social systems, then we can amplify our efforts and amplify the change. And I always said that it would be great if by the end of my life my profession was obsolete because we had solved all the social problems of humanity. That's unlikely because suffering is a fundamental part of the human condition. But we could certainly do a lot more to reduce suffering and to promote recovery. And that's really what motivated me to run for a political office was to be able to organize and create social change and change policies so that we could prevent a lot of the problems that I'm helping people to manage, as well as provide more access to the best interventions available for people to promote recovery and healing and well-being.

SPEAKER_00 4:10

Thank you. And again, we're grateful for the work you're doing and continue to as a I'm honored. And I know Margaret is just because we love uh the show, but really because we get to hear voices throughout the country, not just where we're located, and that means a lot. So to be able to have a representative or someone like yourself from Vermont really is just uh to me, in a way, mind blowing because it's just incredible to see how different states are advocating. But as a uh in Vermont, it's often seen as a leader in healthcare innovation. How can uh the state lead in Parkinson's research, prevention, or environmental health initiatives as you're also trying your best to uh accommodate?

SPEAKER_01 4:50

Yeah. So I'll start by saying that I am a healthcare provider as a social worker, and I have worked with neurodegenerative, with people coping with neurodegenerative um issues, but I'm not an expert. So in terms of the science, and so I couldn't tell you exactly how the chemicals are causing the harm, you know, but I do know I am familiar with some of the environmental factors that have been found to um contribute to Parkinson's and other neurodegenerative um conditions, and pesticides, herbicides, chemical contaminants that are in our environment are one of those factors. Um so as a as a legislator, I have co-sponsored and sponsored a lot of legislation in the last 10 years to restrict and regulate um chemicals. For example, glyce, uh glyphosate, um, you know, like Roundup, I think it's called. And um there's an there's the latest one is paracqua, I might say it wrong. Um and then there's there was atrazine. I don't know if you're familiar with atrazine. So there's there's these chemicals that humans have used to try to manage the manage environmental fat factors like pests and and um weeds and things like that that have had caused harm to humans. And the first thing we need to do is reduce and or eliminate the use of these products. And then the next thing would be looking at mitigation, because that can be done when bodies of water are contaminated. Sometimes um there are things that can be done. Like I learned um, for an example, would be in Burlington, there's a super fun site. Burlington is the city that I'm a representative from, it's the biggest city in Vermont. And there's a there's a park that used to be industrial, but now that's now abandoned and contaminated. And I learned from from some scientists that you can um you can ameliorate contaminants using fungi sometimes, using bacteria, like using using life that can actually process those chemicals. But there hasn't been a lot of political will to do some of that stuff. So we see this super fun site in Burlington just sitting there, you know, um, not like letting time do that work. Because over 20,000 years, chemicals break down too. But there's things we might be able to do to restore the environment. There's certainly things we can do to stop the harm. And so I think the first policy um decision would be to restrict the use of chemicals and as well as monitoring, medical monitoring and tracking when they are when there is contamination, tracking how it's affecting the people. The next thing, um, the next sort of policy lever I would identify would be interventions. That science is progressing. Medical science is progressing so fast right now, and with artificial intelligence allowing us to crunch the you know, genetic data and and information from medical tests quicker and to and to analyze patterns, um, we can use the cutting-edge um technology like AI um to improve testing and to improve our understanding of um our understanding of genetics, et cetera. And so that as we do that and we learn more about how to turn genes on and off, we may come up with you know, there are treatments that could be given to folks who have neurodegenerative diseases that are laser focused on turning genes on and off, which can reset our nervous system. However, um, I really would like to take a moment to highlight a plant medicine that already does this. So we even without any additional research, the earth has given us a gift in a plant called eboga. And eboga is a shrub from Africa, and it's a it's a shrub that has been used in the buiti religion for millennia, so you know, since time immemorial. And they've been the the buit the buiti religion, which um is practiced by a few tribes in Central and West Africa, have been the stewards of this jungle plant. And they use it in their in rituals and ceremonies for its healing powers, and it is a psychedelic plant medicine. You the way you harvest it is you uncover the roots and scrape some of the bark off the root and then drink it in a tea or in a pill. But what this medicine does um is is actually revolutionary, what we have found that it does. It can cure so many neurological issues because, and we're still under scientists, they're still trying to figure out exactly how it works, but it it essentially resets um genes and it resets the biochemistry of multiple neurotransmitters across the entire body. So it's not only resetting them in the brain, it's resetting them in the gut, which is the second greatest concentration, and in your fingers and in your toes, and in your spine, and it's resetting dopamine, it's resetting serotonin, it's resetting um a variety of of um neurotransmitters that are associated with Parkinson's. And so just to tie it specifically into the condition that we're here to talk about today, Parkinson's disease. There are clinics currently in Mexico, in Canada, I believe, where it's where it's well, Canada, it's not allowed, so they're underground there. But in Mexico, it's there are legal libogaine clinics providing treatments for people with multiple sclerosis, Parkinson's, Alzheimer's to help um with regeneration of the nervous system. And this plant medicine holds great promise for reversing some of the symptoms. It may not completely cure it for folks, but certainly can restore functioning for people. Um one story I would share about this is there's a man in Vermont I met who had um brain tumors and they had to remove parts of his brain, and he had lost the ability to walk and talk and work in a normal way. And it led to suicidality and to grain mental suffering, and there was just nothing the doctors could do for him. And he learned from some veterans who had gone to Mexico to get ibogaine treatment for PTSD that he can get it to help regenerate his brain after the injury from um the surgery. And he went and did the initial treatment, and he has to take this medication, this, you know, this herb. It's a medication, but it's an herb. It's derived from a plant. He has to take a micro dose regularly, but his brain is regrowing. He can talk, he can walk, his functioning is coming back, and the doctors they understand what's doing it, but they can't explain it. They don't know why it makes the brain regrow. And so I share that because that's one detailed example of the kinds of treatments we should be looking at, exploring, and making available to folks with Parkinson's and other neurogenergenerative disorders.

SPEAKER_02 12:53

Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_00 12:55

Go ahead, George. No, I appreciate you bringing that up because even this show, again, after we end, we still have a conversation, obviously, that continues. And just being aware of myself, I learned so much from the show, and we appreciate your uh bringing that up. And I hope it reaches the world, not just uh you know Vermont, because I think these new discussions really can make and bring positive change. So thank you again. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 13:19

Yeah, you know, you on that note before we switch focus, President Trump just signed an executive order last week that would allow three vouchers to be um granted by the FDA for clinical um research and development of ibogain treatment. So it's a big deal um for this medicine in the country. It it's interesting because um it it arose out of the Make America Healthy Again concept, this natural medicine, and and Republicans nationally wanting to support natural cures to addiction and not having the pharmaceutical industry profiting off of the problems it has caused. And also because it's it's it there's veterans who suffer immensely from brain injuries and the trauma of war, and then they develop addictions. And this medicine has been life-changing for so many, but they have to go to Mexico to get it. So in when he signed this executive order, he had a bunch of veterans up there with him, and really their the messaging was they're doing this for the veterans, but it's gonna help everyone. You know, it's gonna help it's it's if we can if those three clinical trials succeed and we can establish safe medical use in various locations, then that's just the first step to this being a component of our healthcare system. So I thought I should share that because it's timely because this executive order was just signed.

SPEAKER_02 14:54

Absolutely. It's very timely. And I appreciate you bringing that up. Um, not only in this conversation, as George said, it to our audience as well, so they can do their homework.

SPEAKER_01 15:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:05

Um, I'm going to switch gears. You are one of the sponsors of H79 that would ban terraquad, that toxic herbicide that's being used in farming in Vermont. What does this bill mean to you as it relates, of course, to neurodegenerative health in uh the state of Vermont? As well as what do you think it's gonna take to for it to cross the finish line? There's a legislation across the country in various states, about 12 or so. We had similar legislation here in Virginia, did not cross the finish line this year. So, what do you think it would take to um get ultimately passed in Vermont?

SPEAKER_01 15:39

Yep. Um, it's hard for me to answer that in a simple way because there's what there's so many factors that play in to then I am looking just to see, um checking as I say this to see where it's at right now. It was you know, we passed it out of the house, and it's it looks like it's in the Senate Committee on Agriculture, and you know, I could look to see if they've taken testimony on it. Um, I know there was a press conference last week about about it, so people are trying to keep the pressure up. Um in a very generic sense, would I if I had to pick an answer to what is it gonna take to pass the bill, I would say sustained organized pressure from constituents on legislators who may be wavering towards the side of the chemical manufacturers. Um sometimes farmers will also advocate for the continued use of these chemicals because they do allow them to manage very challenging situations, but we have created exemptions in other bills that because I've seen us a study banning things, and then I've seen that turn into actual bans, but there's usually exceptions. There's usually um the State Department of Agriculture had or agency of agriculture, the the state structure of agriculture, state government has the power to um create waivers and emergency use, like if there was an epidemic of some pest that was wiping out all the like they can allow things. So I would expect that if there are concerns about eliminating an important intervention for catastrophic environmental issues, that we could build into the bill, those exemptions. So I think just having sustained pressure from constituents on their legislators that they're demanding that we take action to reduce the harm of the use of these chemicals and that we pass something, even if it's not a complete ban, that we pass some kind of legislation that reduces the harm of the use of these chemicals.

SPEAKER_00 18:16

Thank you. And uh, we've already kind of mentioned how important environment is playing a role, unfortunately, in a way uh causing many reports. I feel my mother definitely her causes we don't have proof, but was environmental is back in you know seven, eight, ten years ago, they would come in and literally call the bombing your house with for bugs, and you would have to leave it and you can't come back for a day or two. And they would put like those, you know, almost like when you're building a house, like plastic everywhere. And I can't imagine that was very uh you know helpful uh and healthy for my mother or for even our family. And it's uh I don't think it's happening as much today, but unfortunately in Florida, at least you know they waited till some lives were lost before they made these huge changes. Now they don't even go inside the house, actually, in South Florida when doing bugs for which is fascinating. But how can we also get the community, uh Vermont, the state, and everybody on your side to help you know bring awareness too to these environmental factors and also help pass legislation to prevent these potential risks?

SPEAKER_01 19:21

Yeah. I I think an important component is public education, because the more people know, the more they care. And they and then they also we empower people to make different choices. Like if your if your mom had other options and and and if if she was taught, if she if it was if the government made sure that she knew that there was harm and it there were alternatives offered, would she have chosen that? But like you said, back then that's that there was people didn't know how harmful it was. That's in fact they market it as safe to us. You know, they will market things, they'll say you're fine, and then later say, Oh, never mind, you aren't fine. And sometimes we find out that companies knew, like with um with fossil fuels, you know, the oil companies knew what the harm was in the 70s, or tobacco companies is another big culprit. They knew full well what they were doing when they used marketing to increase people's addiction to tobacco, and then states sued and got settlement funds. So, I mean, one thing we may need to look at doing with some of these chemicals is class action suits or the state suing to get money to invest in the treatments. And but um, I think the first thing is public education, making sure more people know of the harm and they know and also offering alternatives. I don't think it's enough to say to people, you can't do this, you can't do that. The government does that too much, you know, and I feel like humans do that too much. We we like to be net, you know, we're we maybe we don't like it, but we gravitate towards negativity and not being solution focused. So I think the government's saying, like, here's alternatives, you know, educating people, people will make healthier choices, make the alternatives incentivize them, make give tax breaks for them, make them more affordable. Um, so I think public education around how environmental factors um drive illness. I think also increasing access to interventions and edge and providing um and then I think in general, like in a very general sense, access to health care is such a big issue in the United States. We're one of we're like one of the only industrialized countries that has a commodified healthcare system that has been designed to promote illness, because illness makes people profits. And I think until we get to the heart of that, we're gonna have you know Parkinson's and all these other conditions. Are only gonna be harder for people to manage when they when they develop them because they they can't afford to go to the doctor, they can't afford the medications, they can't afford the interventions. But honestly, access to preventive care all along might help. We might catch something earlier. Like if someone's developing symptoms of Parkinson's and you see that early on, interventions like ibogain work more because it can reset the dopamine pathways way earlier in that illness before it progresses to a certain point. So, like having earlier screening, having you know um easier access to healthcare. And so, I mean, that's why I advocate for a universal publicly financed healthcare system. And I hope someday we have that. And because I think that would also be something we could do to help people.

SPEAKER_02 22:57

Absolutely. Thank you so much for sharing that. I think, you know, what you're saying seems, you know, you've simplified it and made it common sense in terms of being proactive, solution-oriented, preventative. It's all the things that are more action-oriented in the positive sense versus, of course, the reactivity to our health system, um, our way of um legislating, et cetera. So thank you for sharing that in terms of simplifying it and shifting our minds to be a little bit more preventative and be a little bit more proactive. So, with that being said, it kind of dovetails into my next question really nicely. For those constituents who do support H79 that would ban Paracot in Vermont, what do you suggest they do who um you know support it? Uh, what actions can they take? How do they make their voices um you know heard with their own lawmakers within Vermont? Talk to us a little bit about that.

SPEAKER_01 23:49

Well, uh first I want to acknowledge all the people who already have, because we we did get lots of emails when it was in the house. So there are people organizing and advocating. And for many years, I you know, they they there have been people Vermonters speaking out against the against contaminant chemical contamination of the environment and fighting to slowly restrict you know, glyphosate and atrazine and these and now paracqua, these harmful compounds. Um so I first I want to acknowledge all the work people have done and thank them. And for those who are trying to get involved, I think you could you could you know research who are some of the advocacy organizations in Vermont doing this work and um and see what see what which organizations resonate with you and get involved and join in their campaigns because they'll do when when you do coordinated action, it sometimes is more effective. However, any action is effective. Sometimes one person emailing a legislator about something is what makes a difference because of the timing and because uh just like I've seen that happen, where one person speaks out about something and it it doesn't, you don't need a hundred emails. That one person is able to connect with a legislator, and the legislator then becomes their ally and their advocate and is able to be a voice and it turns the tide of a decision. Um, so I would encourage people to reach out to your own legislator. Um it can be a simple email, just uh you know, asking them to support it, or you if you want to put a little more work in, you can look to see how we voted on some bills and then ask us about that. Um you could email members of the committees that it's in. So you could or send write letters, you know. Um, so you could, you know, you can look on our web on the on the Vermont legislature website, and for each committee it says who's on the committees, and you can get our emails off of the website. So you can email the committees, you can submit written testimony on any bill. Anyone can do that. You may not be able to get time to come talk before a committee, but anyone can write a letter to a committee and say, I want this in the record, and then it actually gets added to our website. So a lot of people don't know that. But if there's people out there who um who have lived experience with Parkinson's disease or um lived experience as family or friends or neighbors or community members or providers for folks with Parkinson's disease, you could write a letter to the committee saying, here's what my loved one went through, and I don't want other people to have to go through this. We should ban these chemicals, you know? And those letters would be added to the record. And, you know, it um not everyone sees everything, but it but it adds to the body of evidence for why we made a decision. And a lot of us read everything. I may not remember every single person's name, but I see the emails. I've gotten hundreds of emails about this issue over the last or you know, in general, you know, the issue of of banning herbicides and chemicals and stuff, not just parap over the years. So people, you know, it does make a difference. Um, and if you want to go a little invest a little more time, you could plan a trip to the state house and you could reach out to your representative and say, Um, you know, I I come from your district. I'm I'm coming to the state house. Can you make a few minutes to talk to me? Almost everyone would do that, even if it's a few minutes. Like I'm pretty busy and I don't always have big chunks of time like do an interview like this. Um, but I can make five minutes. There's no excuse for me not to make five minutes. I I shouldn't say that because then something's gonna happen today and I'm gonna miss, I'm not gonna go to talk to someone. I'm gonna be like, okay, there was an excuse. But in general, you know, there's we can make time to say hello to someone. And and one thing I would say is we are bombarded and overwhelmed at times. So short, short and sweet is more effective than long than long engagement with a legislator. So practicing like a three to five minute pitch, you know, uh, you know, where and and uh and personal stories go a long way. Um you know what I think doesn't work well is when people um take a hostile approach or shame legislators or make assumptions, like negative assumptions about us, I think that that then people get defensive. But I think if you approach a legislator and you have a heartfelt story and and and ask for something that that touches people's hearts. And I can say that regardless of our parties here and our differences in Vermont, we get along pretty well. And I don't think any of my colleagues are here with with bad intentions, you know. We may have different, very different sometimes perspectives on what's gonna help people, but I think we all generally want to do what's right and to help people. And I think the people who oppose like banning pesticides, they're often afraid of the pests, or they're afraid of the economic impact, or they, you know, or or you know, sometimes they or their friends are invested in that company. And, you know, that's part uh that's part of like some might say it's not just to profit off of that, but if they don't fully understand the harm yet, you know, so so like part of it is helping people see the impact. And so helping a person see the real impact on people of these chemicals might help someone change someone's perspective. And sometimes a five-minute conversation in person is better than an email. So I guess those are some ideas for folks. You know, it's like it's like writing or or trying to meet with us, um, and also just it organizing your neighbors if you want to invest more time. You know, you could you could be the one who's bringing community members together to make plans for advocacy.

SPEAKER_02 30:16

So thank you.

SPEAKER_00 30:19

Thank you for being a voice for the Parkinson's committee, not just Vermont, but countrywide. As we wrap up today, we wanted to send a huge thank you again for your time. You brought some important topics and also another conversation that has to continue after these uh shows end, but how important it's to have the community involved. Is there uh you already kind of said it already, but do you have any words of encouragement for the Parkinson's community as we wrap up this show today?

SPEAKER_01 30:46

Um, yeah, but I I uh you know, I what I would just say is um keep up the hope that we can improve quality of life for our loved ones and ourselves in so many ways. There's so many um interventions and ways to manage symptoms. There's so many ways to improve functioning, there's breakthrough treatments coming out. Um, so you know, just keep up the hope. Um and also we are making progress with prevention, we're making progress with um correcting some of the harm that humans have done to the environment. And so, you know, I think we're gonna see a lot of loss before things get better for humanity. Unfortunately, I think that's our destiny and our karma that humans have made a big mess of the earth and we now have to reckon with that. But I I I'd like I like to believe and I stay focused on the belief that the fundamental goodness of humans will prevail. And so I just um I'll leave you with that.

unknown 32:01

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 32:01

Well, I want to thank you again. I want to send the show to any closing comments from Margaret.

SPEAKER_02 32:06

Yeah, thank you, Representative China. I can't thank you for closing on such a positive note. Um, George and I do believe the same thing. That's why we're here advocating and sharing uh the good work you're doing and others around the country. And I also want to thank you for breaking down what advocacy can look like at various levels and making it bite-sized and doable for constituents. Um, I think you know that's certainly hopefully a great outcome of this episode so people can better understand ways in which they can advocate at various levels and bite sizes as they're comfortable with. So thank you for making it tangible so everyone can do their part.

SPEAKER_00 32:43

You're welcome. Please. After every show, I always feel like I need to get a megaphone and scream to everyone out there how important this is. But knowing that we have representatives like you uh out there, I know I don't have to because we have a voice uh throughout this country and specifically today in Vermont. So thank you again. I also want to thank everyone at Power Parkington behind the scenes. Also, of course, Margaret wouldn't uh be able to accomplish this. I do feel every show is almost really like history. You know, we have the first ever National Council coming in June, I think the 26th. But uh, as we uh see just for two years now, it's really when policy has become a huge impact in society, whether environment, veterans, and our community. So just grateful again for everyone's time today. And of course, our listeners. Please share the show. Please support the representative and also POP. They're doing some incredible things. Uh, I'm jealous as I want to be at the golf uh tournament coming. But this has been another episode of the Parkinson's Policy Podcast where we advocate together to raise awareness and meaningful and advance meaningful policy for the Parkinson's community countrywide. Thank you again, representative. Thanks, Margaret, and we'll see everyone back very soon, I think even sooner than we know because this is such an important topic. And you can be sure that Margaret, myself, and the representatives won't rest and we'll always be advocating by your side. Thanks, everyone. We'll see you soon.