Too Many Bad Meetings

Feel like your day is nothing but bad meetings—with nothing to show for it?

In this episode of Aren’t Ya Tired Of?, Patti and Mark call out the real problem: too many meetings that waste time, stall decisions, and leave you doing your actual work after hours - because you're in meetings all day!

They break down the signs of bad meetings —and more importantly, how to fix them. From deciding if a meeting should even happen to leading a meeting that actually creates results, this episode is your guide to taking back control and eliminating bad meetings!

If your calendar is full but your progress isn’t, this one’s for you.

Please subscribe and share this with anyone who needs to hear this conversation! Follow us on Instagram at arentyatiredof_social.  Send your topic suggestions to podcast@pattibjohnson.com or through DM on LinkedIn or Instagram.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:09

Welcome to the Aren't You Tired Of podcast. I'm Patty Johnson. My co-host here is Mark Benton.

SPEAKER_05 0:16

Hello.

SPEAKER_00 0:17

Mark Benton, exactly. And so, you know, the number one frustration I hear and I know I have felt in any organization is meetings. Too many of them. Yeah. And the ones I'm going to are wasting my time. And so we want to dive into this topic of meetings today and see what we can do to make it better. It is spring cleaning time. And so Mark and I are going, let me need to spring clean some of these meetings after our schedule.

SPEAKER_05 0:46

We need to do something about it because I'm I get a little tired of them.

SPEAKER_00 0:49

Yes. We both do.

SPEAKER_05 0:51

Many do.

SPEAKER_00 0:51

It's one of those topics. You can say meetings, it doesn't matter who you're talking to, and you get the eye roll. Everybody's like, oh, you uh tell me about it. Tell me about it. So I'm pretty sure any of our listeners have felt this. And so we're going to dive into it today. And let's start off with we're going to ask y'all some questions of how you know you are in a bad meeting. And so I'm going to ask Mark, how do you know you're in a bad meeting? Let's go back and forth on this.

SPEAKER_05 1:19

Oh my gosh. Well, my my first call out is you leave a meeting with no decision made and zero progress. Like, good to talk to you all. Click, you know, and the meeting's over. And I'm like, what? Why do we even have it? What just what are we doing? Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:35

Okay. The second one I will share, and this is what I've experienced a lot. The most senior person rolls in about 15 minutes late.

SPEAKER_02 1:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:45

Then says, Can y'all catch me up real quick? So you replay what you've already covered. Consequently, then the meeting runs over 15 minutes. Over. Then the whatever you then probably the meeting you had after now starts late, or you're kind of texting people saying, Hey, hey, hey, can we run later? So that's the uh the late starter, late ender. That's that's number two.

SPEAKER_05 2:08

That's that's another that's one. Okay, here's a third one. Um okay, so you're on a Zoom call. Yeah. Okay. Um, or Teams, you know, meeting, and half the people are on video, okay, and the other half are on audio, right? And people on audio, um, they're like really quiet. I mean, like crickets. You know, and so you're talking and you're trying to get everybody engaged, but you don't know who's actually there. What what what what what's going on here? What are we doing? What do you think? You know, are you there? Hello, Martha. Are you still with us?

SPEAKER_00 2:43

Do you hate it? Yeah. Yeah. I don't like it. Yeah, exactly. You've got that mix of video and audio. Yeah. Um, okay. You need another meeting after the meeting because it was a cast of thousands, and people felt like I really couldn't say that in that forum. So now the meeting that was supposed to resolve the issue couldn't. You got to have another one because there were too many people at the first one.

SPEAKER_05 3:07

That's right. That's right. Uh I mean, and so here's one. Um, so you have a packed schedule, like more topics than you actually have time to cover. Okay, that that's that's one. And then there's one person that just doesn't read the situation, and it's like their own personal like karaoke. They're not singing, but they're talking. They're talking, they're talking and like cue up another one. I mean, they're just talking and talking. They're going to. And so what could have been 30 minutes is not 30 minutes. It goes longer. So then you have to get more time later, right? I mean, we talked about this in a previous episode. That person's the hijacker. That's the meeting hijacker.

SPEAKER_00 3:51

Office politics, check it out.

SPEAKER_05 3:52

That's right. Yep.

SPEAKER_00 3:53

Um, okay, here's the last one how to know if you're in a bad meeting. At least the key person, at least one of them, needed to make the decision, cancels at the last minute. The meeting organizer, yeah, instead of saying need to delay, goes ahead and has the meeting and talking talk, talk, talk. Yeah, no decision reached, but thought, well, since it was scheduled, we should probably go ahead and do it, even though the key approver is not in this setting. So those are a few examples of some bad meetings. Um, Mark, what about you spend a ton of time in meetings. I know that from our conversations.

SPEAKER_05 4:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:33

What's your biggest frustration?

SPEAKER_05 4:36

You know, it's some of the things we just talked about. I mean, my biggest frustration also in a meeting is when it's it's like it just circles the drain. Like it just won't, it won't flush down, you know. And we just keep, you know, people say, Oh, just beating up the horse, you know, or let me kick the horse again. Is it beating up the horse?

SPEAKER_00 4:56

I don't think it is.

SPEAKER_05 4:57

Beating up the horse, what are you doing?

SPEAKER_00 4:58

I don't know.

SPEAKER_05 4:59

I don't I don't know. Well, you know, there's a phrase.

SPEAKER_00 5:01

There's a phrase, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 5:02

Something about the horses. We'll get it. Anyway, I I hate when we can't like just land the plane. We you know, we you start, you see, you see it starting to close down, the topic is coming, okay, we're wrapping up, and then somebody asks a question. I'm like, don't ask if there are more questions. I just I don't know. Like we we need to spin and spin and spin and we need to stop it. That's that's a frustration for me. How about for you?

SPEAKER_00 5:30

Well, I think uh some of the ones we just covered some of the ones that are mine. Yeah. I think I can think of a couple more, and that is I think a lot of times people think if I have a really great presentation, it's gonna be a great meeting. Yeah. Unrelated. Materials are there to support the conversation, the decision, whatever you're trying to do. Oh, yeah. And they look at this presentation, it looks so pretty. And I've got oh, I've got 40 pages. Yeah. Unrelated.

SPEAKER_04 5:56

Just jam-packed with content.

SPEAKER_00 5:58

And it looks so pretty. Yeah. So I think people thinking materials are a replacement for a well planned, good conversation. So that's one. Yeah. And I think um the other thing I would say is if you're in a meeting to make a decision, yeah. Whether it's in your office, it's in your community service group, it's at the school, you're there to make a decision. One of my frustrations is people talk, keep on talking about all the problems. No recommendation.

SPEAKER_01 6:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:33

No suggestions.

SPEAKER_05 6:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:35

You know, it's like, okay.

SPEAKER_05 6:36

Well, that that's kind of what I was saying. My frustration is like we just all like we're just problem producers. Just problem, problem, problem, problem, problem, you know. And um our producer just put up it's beating a dead horse.

SPEAKER_00 6:50

Thank you. No, thanks, Michael. Thank you. We're just like I knew it's right, it's right there. I knew what you said. That's the kicking the horse when you said kicking the horse. Then it yeah. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 7:05

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 7:05

Thank you so much. Because I knew what what you said. That's not right. It's not right. It's not right. Thank you. And I was in the back of my mind this whole bit of time, since then I've been the horse, the horse. What are we doing to the horse? What's happening? Okay, thank you for that. Now we can feel, ooh, repeats, repeats.

SPEAKER_04 7:22

We we can move on.

SPEAKER_00 7:24

Okay. So what are they? They're doing something to the horse in this meeting, right?

SPEAKER_05 7:27

They're doing something to the horse and it's not kind. It's not kind. Um But you know, what we're finding is that um we spend a lot of time in meetings. And to your point, it's not just, you know, you know, corporate work-related meetings. We, you know, we're having meetings for, you know, the kids' school, or, you know, we're on committee, or, you know, we're a part of this group or that group, or um the kids, you got to go to the meeting for the parents because the parents need to talk about the thing. And so we spend a lot of time in meetings, and you know, studies are saying that it's been increasing eight to ten percent um, you know, year over year on average. Um, and most business people spend about twenty fours a week in meetings.

SPEAKER_00 8:14

I believe it.

SPEAKER_05 8:15

So, you know, if we think about it, and the reason why, you know, this topic is so important and why we need to figure out how we can work and live better around, you know, these these bad meetings is time is our most precious asset. And all we have really that that we for the most part control is time. Um, and so, you know, our theme today, I think, is really about being intentional. That, you know, if you're in a meeting and and you need to do your part, we need to do our part to make sure that that meeting is intentional, that we're being strategic, that we're being productive. I think that's what we want to convey. And so we we're not powerless in some of these. Sometimes we are, sometimes we don't control, but sometimes we're not. And so um, you know, we're gonna talk about some things we can do differently. Like, I I have one that I I want to talk about, and it's like, no.

SPEAKER_02 9:08

Yes, that's no. Yes.

SPEAKER_05 9:10

Are you coming to the meet? No.

SPEAKER_02 9:11

No.

SPEAKER_05 9:12

Or I'm gonna ask a lot of questions. No, we're meeting. What are we meeting about? Who's gonna be there? Yes. That's right. What's there? Do they have a topic too? Yeah. Is it gonna be a pre-read? Is it gonna be in person or are we gonna do it virtual?

SPEAKER_00 9:29

But you know, I think where you're gonna is marked, is that before the meeting ever happens, yeah, w we know we'll talk about what in the meeting once you're there. Yeah. But you're talking about before it be intentional.

SPEAKER_05 9:41

Yeah, well, the pre-meeting.

SPEAKER_00 9:43

It's the pre before you ever get there. And I think, you know, a f a few three things we've talked about is decision test.

SPEAKER_01 9:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:52

Will can you solve a problem, make a decision by gathering these people together?

SPEAKER_01 9:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:58

Can you? You should not use a meeting to update a bunch of other people. That is not the purpose of a gathering.

SPEAKER_05 10:06

That is a meeting culprit right there. Like let me just have a meeting to update you about what we're doing.

SPEAKER_00 10:12

You've got to rely on however you do it in your organization. It might be as we might be old email, old school. It might be you're on Slack, you're on Teams. However, you do it, it might be a text thread.

SPEAKER_04 10:23

Megaphone.

SPEAKER_00 10:24

Yes, exactly. Yeah, group meet. What however you do it, um, do not use people's time together to update each other. And so it is that's a decision test by because you're you're taking people's time, as you said, together. Yeah. That's number one. Number two, who's invited will participate, will and I'm gonna you'll pick on Have you ever said you weren't going to come to a meeting because who was invited?

SPEAKER_05 10:49

Oh, I'm not able at that time.

SPEAKER_00 10:50

No. But I'm not available. If you are inviting people, yeah, yeah. Is the is the outcome gonna change by Skippy being there?

SPEAKER_04 11:02

Skippy.

SPEAKER_00 11:03

No.

SPEAKER_04 11:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:03

It's not. Skippy has no influence or okay Skippy, you go do you go work on your analysis, whatever you need to. We will save you the time. Right. And so I think you only include people who need to be there. Yeah to quote you, Mark, do not include people to keep them in the loop, which I know is your your no, I hate I shouldn't don't, I shouldn't even brought it up.

SPEAKER_05 11:25

I I gotta say it.

SPEAKER_00 11:27

I don't want to be.

SPEAKER_05 11:28

Take me out your loop. Right. Okay. D loop me. I don't want to be in the loop.

SPEAKER_00 11:34

So Skippy doesn't want to be goes goes falls down. Skippy doesn't need to be in the loop. Okay. That's not why. So that's the second thing. Who's invited?

SPEAKER_01 11:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:44

The third is before you get there, is this an ongoing standing meeting? Because that is also a culprit. Because you know how the meeting that got started um about six months ago because there were service issues in the Western region, and we thought we got to get on top of that.

SPEAKER_01 11:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:59

Well, okay, those it's it's that's been addressed. A new person's in the role. We change our pro we got it.

SPEAKER_04 12:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:05

There, that same meeting is just a going and a go and let that meeting die. Let it die. So always reassess. I think those are three key things before the meeting ever happens. So I'm curious for you, Martin. Now, that I that assumes you have some control or influence.

SPEAKER_02 12:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:19

What if you don't? And a lot of times we don't. We're invited to meetings that we're expected to show up for. How do you deal with that?

SPEAKER_05 12:25

It it happens a lot. And I I was being slightly funny when I was talking before you were talking about, you know, kind of how to, you know, kind of think about if you need to have a meeting.

SPEAKER_02 12:36

Right.

SPEAKER_05 12:36

But I I'm really not joking. Like I will say, now what are we meeting for? And how long do we think this meeting now? Remind me the context. Because you know, I if if you know, our listeners, if you're like, you know, both Patty and I, you have so many things that are going through your head all day long. You can't be expected to remember everything. And some like, no, what is this pertaining to? So I'll ask the questions. Um, do you need a decision from me, you know, on the meeting? Um, can I, you know, give you my input in advance?

SPEAKER_02 13:05

There you go.

SPEAKER_05 13:06

You know, can I send you a quick email that you know you can represent or I send it to all the people? Um what here here's one that like people will use it with me and I appreciate it, and I also use it. What is the outcome that we're looking for? You know, so not just does a decision need to be made, because if you're going to the meeting for a decision point, that's yeah, let's let's go. But if it's just to inform or something like that, then you might be in a position to suggest something different. Do you have an agenda? You know, or we're just gonna be, you know, free. Free free and flowing. You know, free and flowing, you know? Um, do you need both of us in the meeting? So I've done that a lot where I've said, um okay, so there's this person from the department and this person from the department. Do you need both of us in the meeting? Why?

SPEAKER_00 13:56

Exactly.

SPEAKER_05 13:56

And they'll say, Oh, yeah, you why? Why do we both need to be there? And so, you know, I I think that um that is those are key things. Another big thing that, you know, I learned not too long ago, and and r practice this religiously, is if you are in a position, I don't know you talked about this earlier, um, culturally, if you need to keep open time on your calendar so that anybody can schedule, then that's appropriate. But you have to save time for yourself in order to get things done. And it's it's kind of surprising to me. Like, I'll talk to leaders, um, especially some that are kind of growing in their career, and they just think, well, just if so-and-so dropped it on my calendar and so I just needed to go. And I'm like, no, you kind of really don't. Like, you gotta set some time aside to think and and to process or just a recharge, right?

SPEAKER_00 14:48

Also, to you know, is that even a priority for me? Just because I think it's a priority for you to join, Mark, you might know, actually, it's not a priority for my time. And I think that open calendar thing you mentioned, yeah, that is a really talking about a big stumbling block. Yeah, I think.

SPEAKER_05 15:06

Well, and I think too, we we also have people that are listening that are you know more senior in their careers, and so they do have control over their calendar a lot more. And I actually know a couple of leaders that um there is no white space, there's no open time. They block everything. They block it. So you're forced to have to call them or you know, work through if they have an assistant to get time on their calendar so they're able to control it. So, you know, I I, you know, that might not be a practice in, you know, in all places, you know, or venue, but I think how do you get that control back for just being asked to attend any meetings? But if if they have to ask to get the time, then you have a minute to say not now what are we doing? Exactly. Well, who's coming and what's this about, you know?

SPEAKER_00 15:50

I think that's so important. I think too, Mark, that ability. Anybody that has an open calendar, I would really you need to think twice about that. Because I know I think I think the best practice is doing what people say, they'll block the whole thing, or I know other leaders will maybe they'll block some time, but they'll save other open times, but you can't schedule. Like I can see, I'm I can see you're in town, Mark uh next week. Okay, that's great. And you have some open time, but I can't go in there and be like scheduling. You can't do that. That sounds like such a tactic, but man, if you have if people have the ability to schedule you, then all of a sudden you're you're on your back foot.

SPEAKER_02 16:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:27

You're explaining, well, why I know you I you invited me, but I can't come to that.

SPEAKER_05 16:32

Yeah. Well, and I think what we're really talking about is meetings are tiresome. You know, meetings are important, right? But for the most part, it's it's tiring to be in a meeting. I know um I was working with um some people and and I had the the fortunate ability to have an assistant, and she was telling me, I I don't know how you do it all day. You j you're just back to back to back all day long. And you know, you might have some time for lunch, but then you're right back into it. I don't know how you do it. And I'm like, I don't know how I do it either. You know, I don't know how anybody does it. And so I've gotten a little wiser about that. And as, you know, we maybe get into a section if we're gonna talk about some lessons learned and some tips, um, I want to share some of those things. But um yeah, I mean if we're gonna work, I just have this philosophy, like choose to make the time great.

SPEAKER_00 17:32

Yes. And I think choose to make the time great. Choose to make the time great. And I also think that, you know, you bring up a really good point because if you are in, and a lot of people are in this situation, I know I have been too, you're in meetings all day long, you're doing your work at night, yeah, and you do it on the weekend. Well, all the time you spend in quote meetings, if they're not really valuable in solving problems, you're not spending it with your team. Yeah, you're not spending it with your clients or those on service issues, you're not being strategic. Yeah. You know, so you're robbing yourself by being in meetings all the time.

SPEAKER_04 18:04

All the time.

SPEAKER_00 18:05

Yeah, for sure. All the time. For sure.

SPEAKER_04 18:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:07

Um, okay, let's look at okay, let's say you've been through that filter. Yeah. You both talked about, you know, making sure before you ever are at a meeting, yeah, you either have planned it or you've tried to influence if you don't, if you're not the owner of it.

SPEAKER_02 18:19

Correct.

SPEAKER_00 18:19

Now, let's say you get into the meeting. Let's talk about some good habits of what makes a meeting go well. I'm gonna mention a few and then I'll mark, I'll let you, you know, share a few. And I think the one thing I think is back to, man, we've in our podcast, how many times have we talked about habits?

unknown 18:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:36

Habits, my, I mean, how many meetings are an hour or they're 30 minutes? And that's because that's the way Outlook is set up, and that's how long you set up, you that's how long you schedule meetings for.

SPEAKER_01 18:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:48

And I think um if the topic is complete after 20 minutes, thank you very much. We've done it. This is what we've agreed. Don't keep talkity talkity talking about some other just keep, you know, beating the dead horse. Got that right. You know what I mean? Right. Uh, or bringing up some other rando topics that you didn't even need to be there. So I think that's it.

SPEAKER_04 19:10

You don't have to fill the time.

SPEAKER_00 19:12

Do not fill the time. And even don't be afraid to schedule a 20-minute meeting or schedule a 40-minute meeting. However long you think your agenda's for, don't rely just on whatever outlook tells you that the standard things are.

SPEAKER_01 19:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:25

Um, I like that. Start and end on time, for heaven's sake.

SPEAKER_01 19:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:29

You know, that seems like basic one-on-one. Yeah, but I gotta tell you, for me, that is one of the biggest obstacles I've seen. Yeah. I'm gonna start it and then I'm coming and do doot. Yeah. Um, and then have common goals and share what they are. Be intentional and clear. And I'm I'll give you one example and then I want to hear what you got on your list.

SPEAKER_02 19:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:50

I can remember I would go to PTO meetings when the boys were younger, and I was a parent teacher. Parent teacher organization.

SPEAKER_05 19:58

Organization. Thank you. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 20:00

So I would go and I was a working mom, plate bursting. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 20:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:06

I was the whatever the spinning, the plates, the juggling. Yeah. That was me. Yeah. So I'd go into these meetings, and in my mind, let's figure out how we're gonna do the homeroom party, pass out who's doing the cookies, who's doing things. I gotta get out of here. Right. So in my mind, I'm sitting here going, we could have decided this in 15 minutes, guys. Yeah, that's what's in my head. I'm frustrated.

SPEAKER_01 20:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:28

But what I still, you know, and then it's a 90-minute meeting. But I also think what I realized is part of that meeting was meeting other other parents. Oh, yeah. Camaroty. Yeah. Uh understanding what some of the issues are at the school. Um, and for me, I had to learn that the purpose of that meeting was beyond just who's bringing the cookies. It was that sense of connection. You know, and I think um when you have virtual teams, we we need that too. Yeah, right?

SPEAKER_01 20:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:58

You know, um important that we have spend that time together. It's not always wasteful to be, even though we're talking efficiency, right? It's not always wasteful to be, it's not wasteful to be like, how's your how's your weekend? Yeah, the trend check-in. You need that. But be intentional. We're going to allow time for that.

SPEAKER_05 21:16

Well, but you know, Patty, it's interesting because I have found where work mark creeps into um committee mark or um uh Cub Scouts mark, Cub Scout Leader Mark. And so I try to bring those habits to individuals that don't have the same kind of uh they don't work in the same environment that I that I work in. And and there's I I'm not there's no judgment or anything on that. I'm just saying I'm working in this regimented, you know, 30 minute meetings, hour meetings, half day meetings, you know, and all the things. And, you know, those people are like, yeah, I get up, I do my thing, I'm done by three, I got my afternoon. It just a different flow. And one of the things I've learned about Healthy habits is I had to learn not to bring corporate mark into non-corporate environments because you know you don't I didn't want to be that person. Right.

SPEAKER_00 22:12

And you miss some things. And you do.

SPEAKER_05 22:14

You do. Now sometimes I had to bring corporate mark.

SPEAKER_00 22:16

A little corporate mark might might be good. Might be good. Just move the needle a little bit. Was needed.

SPEAKER_05 22:23

Right.

SPEAKER_00 22:24

Right.

SPEAKER_05 22:24

So, you know, I just wanted to say that because it when you were talking about coming into those things, I, you know, I would go to school, yeah, an hour or whatever it was. And I was like, all right, peeps. Exactly. We got to go.

SPEAKER_00 22:34

But I think that's an example. Be intentional. Yeah. What are you doing? And I think one other thing related to that is, you know, if you have a virtual team, you know, I know we would often just, it was clear the first 10, 15 minutes, which is against my nature, but first 10 or 15 minutes, yeah. How are you? Yeah. How are things going? Is she gonna do a puppy? How's how's the how was the the vacation? Yeah. You know, allow people to connect a little bit, but be back our message, be intentional. Know how you're gonna spend your time. What else do you think? Other healthy habits.

SPEAKER_05 23:04

Well, I was just thinking, you know, one of the things I think is a good healthy habit is um no agenda potentially equals wasteful meeting. Yeah, I agree. And so I think agendas, even if it's just a few bullets on this is what we want to talk about or accomplish, um, it should be followed. And when it's not followed, then you've got to be really good at, you know, how to manage and really know the team. So I I think a healthy habit is, I mean, put some bullets down, you know, and send them in advance if you can. Or at the top of the meeting, um, you know, say, he, this is what we want to accomplish. I always like to also, especially when I'm having a one-on-one with, you know, like my manager or something, um, I'd want to, or another leader, I I even want to say something like, okay, here's the two or three things I'm bringing. What do you have? Yeah. Right. And then we get them down and then we kind of, you know, go through them. I think that's good. Um also, if it's a situation, and I and I even think if this, you know, you had said one time, or, you know, more than two or three are gathered, you know, um, you should have a facilitator. You should have someone that's responsible for keeping focus and moving things forward. And and they can be that person that says, oh, you know what, you know, Josh and Carrie, it sounds like you have an issue that you're working on. Um, why don't you take that, you know, offline and we'll hold you accountable to you know, bring back, you know, the status or whatever it is. You know, that works at in work environment, on committee, you know, socially, you know, all those things. Just it's okay to bring these things and these behaviors to a good meeting because, you know, you want to be respectful of people's time. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:44

I feel like even you and I, as you're talking, yeah. When we do a prep for a podcast, we have an agenda.

SPEAKER_02 24:50

We do.

SPEAKER_00 24:50

We have one of us will say, We have got 10 more minutes. Yeah. Let's make sure we get to this thing.

SPEAKER_05 24:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:55

Um, we facilitate each other. That's right.

SPEAKER_05 24:57

So sometimes I have to take things offline with myself. Yes, me too. Right.

SPEAKER_00 25:01

I'm gonna be talking with myself about it.

SPEAKER_05 25:03

Patty, why don't you and you, you yourself, go and take that offline and then come back.

SPEAKER_00 25:08

But that's right. Even in something that is in very informal with two people, we I don't think you and I have ever had a podcast conversation that we did not have an agenda ahead of time. No. Because usually we have quite a bit we need to cover. We don't have enough time, and we're we're kind of okay, save that, that can wake. So those habits help us, I think, even on what you might think of as is not two or more, it's just together, trying to make some decisions and be, you know, be organized and have it together. So those are great.

SPEAKER_05 25:37

I think so. I think so. Um what thoughts, what other thoughts do you have?

SPEAKER_00 25:41

Yeah, I think some of the other good habits I think are, and this is something I've used that I think is really helpful, is if you have a within an agenda, you might have four topics.

SPEAKER_01 25:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:51

Is identify for that topic what's your goal. Back to intentional. Is it are we making a decision?

SPEAKER_01 25:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:57

Are we, is it just um, is it are we brainstorming? We get some ideas.

SPEAKER_01 26:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:01

Is it a review? I'm not looking for approval, uh, but it could be review or approval. Um, and then last, it could be to confirm actions. I know a lot of times if you've been in meetings with leaders where you want them, maybe it's a big change initiative, it's a big priority. Yes. You know an email, a PowerPoint is not gonna do it. You need some, let's talk this through. Yeah, okay. Leaders, you guys are gonna play this role. Everybody clear on what you're what you're doing. That might be whatever that is, label what it is. We're gonna make a decision. We're talking about this 30 minutes, we're gonna make a decision. And I know I'm on a board. We use this habit because it's very efficient. Um, one other is use the pre-read because and it's so funny. I don't know if you've experienced this, but you know, a lot of times people are afraid to do it because they don't read it.

SPEAKER_05 26:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:46

You know, that's a reasonable.

SPEAKER_05 26:47

I I will read a preread. If you send me a preread, I'll read it.

SPEAKER_00 26:50

I'll read it. That and I think if you are the host of the meeting, you can reinforce it. And I know, like example, on the board, you do your pre-reads. You don't roll into a board meeting and you that you have it.

SPEAKER_05 27:00

That is the board of directors' way.

SPEAKER_00 27:02

It is the way. That's the way all boards are that's how it is. You get your and we get our pre-reads like a week before. Now I know in a lot of organizations you can't roll that way. Um, I also know that some that is an Amazon habit. Amazon, you do not rely on PowerPoints in meetings. You send your pre-read. And usually it's a word doc. Okay. And you know, here's here's the data you need, here's your information you need. You come prepared to decide and make a decision when we get people together. So um I think there are some you can really use that pre-read to your advantage. And if you're the leader or the chairman of the committee or the the nonprofit, yeah, you start off not, well, we need to walk this through again because I'm sure a lot of you haven't read it. Okay, you're forget it.

SPEAKER_05 27:44

Yes, behavior. You have to read.

SPEAKER_00 27:46

I've assumed you all read the preread. We're gonna jump right into some decision making. So here are two or three questions I want to ask you.

SPEAKER_05 27:52

Right.

SPEAKER_00 27:52

That's you know, right.

SPEAKER_05 27:53

And you know, and I'll even do the thing where like if I've sent a pre-read, I don't some of our listeners can't see, but I'll have my glasses on and I'll pull them down to be like, I know you all read your prereads.

SPEAKER_00 28:06

So let's jump right in.

SPEAKER_05 28:08

So let's uh let's get on in. Let's cook. Let's cook. You know, that is right. So um I I think that uh that's important. You know here's one other thing. Maybe we have just a second to talk about because I I used to have to deal with this. And when I um at you know, my current company, this was something a lot of leaders dealt with. And it's like they come to the meeting, they're all buttoned up and prepared, and what happens is they have sent a pre-read, or they've, you know, given the slides in advance, and the people in the meeting advance to slide three because that's what they want to talk about. So I've come prepared, you know, buttoned up, and I'm ready, and I start at the beginning page, but leader goes to listen on slide three, I actually want to go to this third bullet. Um, and like and the person, the other persons in the meeting, they have the authority to do that. So to wrangle them back in, that's a skill.

SPEAKER_00 29:07

I think, and this is probably worth it. Have you experienced that? Yes, and I think what you're raising, that ability, that facilitation is there is an art, that is an art form, and not many people can do it well. Yeah, I think that that could be a topic for us. Oh, I think that's a good idea. How to facilitate how to facilitate a great discussion because that is not that is reading the room, instinct. Like you're like, oh, that was not what I was planned. Okay, well, how am I gonna handle that? Especially when it's a more senior person.

SPEAKER_05 29:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:32

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_05 29:33

So, listeners, we should probably come back. We should and and we we will owe that to you to come back and talk about that because I think that can make you going into what you think is gonna be a good meeting a bad meeting.

SPEAKER_02 29:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 29:44

Because then you're you're on your heels.

SPEAKER_02 29:46

For sure.

SPEAKER_05 29:47

You know, and you're like, I I wasn't prepared to go there yet because there was context I needed to give you. But that leader or the leaders, they know exactly where they want to go. And so in order to set that up, I think there's some things we could talk about about it. I think so too. But I think some listeners deal with that.

SPEAKER_00 30:01

Let's let's let's add that to our list for sure. Claim it for it. Name it, claim it.

SPEAKER_05 30:05

Yeah. But you know, I was just gonna say that that was kind of a sidebar, but I think every meeting, you need to end with a decision. Like, what are we trying to solve here? What's the goal? I think that's important. For sure. Um, you said it earlier. I think another good healthy habit is you don't have to use all the time. And I'm always appreciative when someone's like, hey, I scheduled, you know, 45 minutes, but you know, if we get it done quickly, then you know, I'm happy to get back to time. And uh here's the last one. Don't be the person that's like, oh, okay, we met from 10 to um, we're supposed to go from 10 to 1030, and we go from 10 to 1028. I'm I'm so pleased to give you back two minutes.

SPEAKER_00 30:46

I mean, what? Don't you're gonna make me say things I shouldn't take work. I mean No, don't be that don't do that to me. Don't be that guy.

SPEAKER_04 30:53

Don't be that one. Don't be that guy. I don't want it.

SPEAKER_00 30:55

No.

SPEAKER_04 30:56

I don't want it.

SPEAKER_00 30:56

So those are all really good ones. I think let's before we actually wrap up, let's talk about uh do you see any like if there are two or three watch outs that you haven't experienced, I'm gonna I'll give a couple of mine when you're thinking about yours.

SPEAKER_01 31:09

Sure.

SPEAKER_00 31:10

Um I think be cautious about asking more senior people to the meeting. I'm not saying you shouldn't, yeah, but be intentional about it because Say Say more about that.

SPEAKER_05 31:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:19

You can change the dynamic in a room. If I invite someone's bossy boss and all of a sudden a decision that needs to be maybe a little controversial, maybe there's a little mixed opinions, all of a sudden you might create somebody. I'm gonna be a little bit more careful.

SPEAKER_04 31:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:35

I in this forum, oh, I see they disagree with somebody or meeting hijack or a topic or our office politics policy. Sometimes that's just legitimate, it just changes the dynamic in the room. So I'm not saying you shouldn't, but be intentional and think about do, you know, do you want more senior people there? The other one I would say is the biggest watch out I see that I when I coach people and they're going into the executive committee, the board meeting, do not jam your agenda. So, as an example, if you are going into an executive committee meeting and you have 45 minutes for your topic, do not bring slides that fill 45 minutes.

SPEAKER_01 32:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:14

Because you're trying to either get people on board with you. That's right. You're trying to get their advice, their opinion. You know, that's why you're there. If they don't have time to ask you any questions or um have some discussion, all you've done is you've rammed something down their throat. You are not getting that support, that buy-in, I'm with you that you're hoping for. Okay. So that is the biggest, I think that is one of the biggest watch outs I see of people going into a meeting when they're presenting. I don't know if you've experienced that also.

SPEAKER_05 32:48

Patty, I have. And the spirit is moving in me to say this. When you master some of these habits of a good meeting, that adds to your halo, your credibility. Yes. You know, Patty, when she has a meeting, you know, the we have an agenda, we're moving through it, you know, we have good debate and good discussion, that comes back to you as the meeting planner. It does. It it it speaks to credibility. It speaks to your emotional intelligence, your leadership. So listeners, if if you know, you're taking away, you know, kind of good good um good points from this, good meeting habits and being intentional and strategic and purposeful, that builds your brand as a professional.

SPEAKER_00 33:36

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_05 33:37

Yeah, I think it also tracks you have bad meetings. If you lead bad meetings.

SPEAKER_00 33:42

If you lead bad meetings. And I think meetings, well, we've talked a lot about being a time waster, there it's also an opportunity. Yeah. It's an opportunity to show your leadership, to show your that you can you can achieve your goals, et cetera. Totally agree.

SPEAKER_03 33:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:56

Um any other final watch outs, Mark, before we land?

SPEAKER_05 34:00

Um You know, I I think you said it earlier, but like I I don't like status updates that become meetings. Like if it's something you can send to me or there's a dashboard I need to look at, just send it. Hey, here's the status update for so and so, and then it's on me. Right. And I I don't think that that's a good meeting. You know, um, it's not a good use of time, especially in this age of where now we're starting to use more AI tools. You know, you could have a meeting, you know, if it's appropriate to transcribe or whatever, or you know, ask co-pilot or whatever you're using to do some prompts and pull together, you know, summary notes and send that. That is equally as effective now that we have the option. You know, so I don't like the status updates. And then I think it's also important I I think to allow for time in meetings. You know, if it's just jam, jam, jam, jam, jam. So I I think that that's you know, a watch out that you talked about. And I think again, an effective meeting, you know, can be a positive thing for you, you know, and and your brand. Because when I go to so-and-so's meetings, though those are really great meetings. We really get things accomplished. Yeah. It was value.

SPEAKER_00 35:15

For sure. For sure. I think the other thing too is the uh brainstorm is over, guys.

SPEAKER_02 35:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:21

We're implementing the system, we're launching the new community service ever next week.

SPEAKER_02 35:26

That's right.

SPEAKER_00 35:27

Okay, and I'm the worst brainstormer. I will admit, I am always bing, bing, bing. Okay, yeah, not a time for that.

SPEAKER_05 35:32

Yeah, we're done. I I I know some people that like I I I call them my my big thinkers.

SPEAKER_00 35:39

Yes, the big thinkers who are still big thinking. Yeah, and I the perfect example, this is a friend of mine. Her daughter, they were doing the wedding. Yeah, her daughter had a Pinterest board and it was beautiful. And it had all the things and the flowers and the want to do this, and we want to do this, and the dresses, and the colors, and the and and she was telling me, she said, This is like six weeks before the wedding. She said, I had to tell her, shut it down. We're not, we don't want, I don't want to see one more thing from the Pinterest board.

SPEAKER_05 36:07

No more storming from the brainstorm.

SPEAKER_00 36:09

No, we are not brainstorming anymore. We are in execution mode and we are weeks away. Yeah. So I think that mentality, you know, we kind of you have to have that at work. We love the great ideas, yeah. But let's save that one for after the next one.

SPEAKER_02 36:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:23

Um, so let's talk about what do you think is the number one um takeaway that you would say to a listener about meetings?

SPEAKER_05 36:33

Well, what I say, um, I, you know, we've we've talked about, you know, the whole being intentional and strategic, but I think um I I just have this mindset and it doesn't always happen this way, but I'm like, I want to make this the most productive time. And so I I don't, I'll admit, I don't do all the things that we've talked about, but I do the things we've talked about. But I think I'm always having this goal of how can I make this 30 minutes the most productive 30 minutes of this individual's day or these individuals' day. And um to add value because I understand that that's also part of my brand.

SPEAKER_01 37:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 37:11

Right.

SPEAKER_01 37:11

Sure.

SPEAKER_05 37:12

So that that's just something. Be intentional. If you're gonna spend this 20 minutes, 30 minutes, two hours with me, I want it to be the most productive. And so I put intention into that.

unknown 37:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 37:21

Yeah. How about you?

SPEAKER_00 37:22

I think I'm, you know, probably just putting a bow on some of the things we've talked about is be intentional, treat your time, as you said at the very beginning, treat your time like gold, right? Um, and know that if you're using your time or others' time, you you're making the decision, it's more important than clients, than team, yeah, than strategy, whatever. And so you really use that filter. And then I also think use it as an opportunity. Make sure that meeting, as you say, best represents your brand. It shows your leadership. Um, and so I think that we're just kind of saying lift up a little bit. Don't be like the little girl who, when asked, what does your mom do? Yeah, says, she just she goes to meetings.

SPEAKER_04 38:05

She's she's in meetings.

SPEAKER_00 38:06

She's in meetings.

SPEAKER_04 38:07

She talks to people on the phone.

SPEAKER_00 38:08

She does on the phone. So lift it up. You know, make sure, be intentional, take control of things. And so I guess in summary, y'all, we just encourage you to treat your time with the greatest of respect. Um, it is it is really that's how you are successful. It's fine joy in your work. That's how you have great relationships.

SPEAKER_03 38:29

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 38:30

And so really treat that with just such care. And meetings are such an as you said, how much time do we spend in meetings? A lot. Wow. So we encourage you to really, really use some spring cleaning and take a fresh look at all those meetings. And so with that, Mark, what do people do in terms of staying connected?

SPEAKER_05 38:50

Well, um, you can find us on Instagram. You can join the Instagram community of Aren't You Tired Of? You can find us at Aren't You Tired Of underscore social. Um, you can pick up this and other podcasts, other episodes on Apple. Subscribe, please. You can well, let me back up. I want you to subscribe.

SPEAKER_00 39:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 39:11

Listen and share on um Apple or um Spotify. And if you ever want to email us, um, you can do that at podcast at pattybjohnson.com. PattyB Johnson.com.

SPEAKER_00 39:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 39:26

And uh, you know, we always love to hear from you.

SPEAKER_00 39:30

We'd love to. And we've gotten some great suggestions and questions. One of the things on our list in one of these um sessions, in addition to doing a how to facilitate a great discussion, is we'll answer questions that we're getting coming in. So thank you all. Have a great week. Enjoy yourself and make sure you don't, you're not in too many bad meetings. Yeah. Take care.

SPEAKER_05 39:49

Take care. Bye. Bye.