Fuzzy Feedback: What Are You Trying to Tell Me?

Ever walk away from a conversation thinking… “Wait—what do you mean? What exactly am I supposed to do?”

In this episode of Aren’t Ya Tired Of…, Patti and Mark unpack the frustration of fuzzy, unclear feedback—at work, at home, and everywhere in between. You know someone is trying to tell you something … but it’s not landing.

Why don’t we ask?

They dig into what’s really holding us back (it’s not just confidence), the hidden cost of staying quiet, and why those “I should’ve asked…” moments keep happening.

And here’s the shift—stay curious, ask better questions, and actually listen. Not to react… but to understand.

Because once you’re clear on the feedback, then you get to decide what to do with it.

Please subscribe and share this with anyone who needs to hear this conversation! Follow us on Instagram at arentyatiredof_social.  Send your topic suggestions to podcast@pattibjohnson.com or through DM on LinkedIn or Instagram.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:09

So, you know, the thing that I think is so frustrating is you hear these phrases that that people give you when they're trying to give you some feedback. They'll say something like, Oh, you're not strategic enough. Or, you know, like if you're in a group, they're like, you know, I'm doing all the work. What are you doing? You know, um, here's one that I don't like, Patty. It's like, and I've tried to get people not to use it. It's like, you lack executive presence.

SPEAKER_03 0:32

Oh. Classic.

SPEAKER_00 0:33

Have you ever heard 100 times. Right? And then you have this thing where, like, you know, you should talk more. Actually, you should talk less. I mean, what what does any of that mean? I mean, we get feedback that it's just fuzzy. We don't know what to do with it, you know? So, listeners, welcome uh to Aren't You Tired Of. Uh, this is our podcast about what we're tired of and what we want to do about it to fix it. So thanks for joining us. I'm Mark Benton and I'm here with Patty Johnson, co-host. Yeah. And um, so today we're talking about something that I hear all the time from friends and colleagues. And honestly, it's what keeps me busy. Sure. Right. It keeps me busy. And it's people are tired of getting feedback that sounds important, but it says nothing. And this could be feedback, not just in the workplace, you know, but this could be when you're on committee or you're on a project, you know, team where, you know, it's it's a group of equals, right? Um, but there's a grievance. There's something that has to be solved. And, you know, it's just really hard sometimes to, you know, sit there and hear something from someone, but you don't really understand it.

SPEAKER_03 1:43

And I think our goal is today is to say, understand it. Take the time. You know, a lot of times if you get feedback, you kind of walk away and like, what the heck was that? And so one part of what we want to say today is understand the feedback. Doesn't mean you're signing up for it. Doesn't mean you agree with every bit of it, doesn't mean you don't see it differently. That's right. But understand it. Ask the questions to be sure you understand it.

SPEAKER_00 2:11

Yeah. I I think that that's the main thing. There's a lot when when we were talking about, you know, this as a as an episode, the feedback is a broad topic. You know, there's the giving of feedback, there's the receiving of it, there's the making sure understanding it. So, you know, listeners, what we want to accomplish, as Patty said, is for those of you that have ever been in that seat where you received some kind of guidance or instruction or feedback on do different. I want you to do different or I have to bring this up. We want you to be able to be in a space where you could say, okay, wait a minute, let me make sure I understand that. Um, but one of the things I hear, like I said, from friends and colleagues, and like I said, it keeps me busy. Why, Patty, do you think people are not good at like talking straight and just like this is what I mean?

SPEAKER_03 3:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:04

You know, why do they talk around it?

SPEAKER_03 3:06

And well, I think the big backdrop is, and again, if you're on the receiving end of feedback and you're like, I don't know what to do with this, people are horrible at giving feedback.

SPEAKER_00 3:16

Terrible.

SPEAKER_03 3:17

Terrible. I mean, I think of I think so many leaders who are really good, really experienced, really senior, even that group struggle with giving feedback. And I think um, you know, I think there's a lot of mind blocks that go on there. Like it makes me uncomfortable. And I think one of the the mantras you and I have talked about forever is that you know, being giving good feedback is kind. It helps people grow. And so as a receiver, you've got to have that mindset too. How can you help me? I want that feedback, I want to help me, you know, be better. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:52

I I think that's right. One of the things, and and you know, maybe some of our listeners will, you know, resonate, you know, resonate with this, it'll resonate with them rather, but it's like it's I it's uncomfortable to get into the conflict, right? It's uncomfortable to do that. Um, you know, they'll believe they would come across me, and I remember there was a time in my career uh where I was, you know, still growing in my career, and I was in a role that I was supporting a organization, and it was like a commercial organization. So it was marketers and salespeople. And um any of you that are salespeople or marketers out there, um, or you've ever supported those groups, you know, they they got a mind of their own. You know, they're they're out there, they're reaching the goals, they're, you know, doing dynamic things. The energy is really big. And so a lot of times I was having to coach and and um give them alternative thoughts on how to show up and behave. And I was always hesitant because sometimes it was hard feedback. You know, it was hard like behavior character stuff.

SPEAKER_03 5:01

Right.

SPEAKER_00 5:01

And I always felt like, how can I do this and not come across mean? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 5:06

Well, I also think related and what you're touching on here is how many times have I said to people, you think you're making it easier for yourself at the moment? I don't want I don't want to make you feel uncomfortable. I don't want to feel uncomfortable. Yeah. I'm just gonna kick it down the road.

SPEAKER_01 5:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 5:20

Let me tell you, it's gonna you kick down the road about two months later, it's gonna be a lot worse and a lot harder than it is right now. It's gonna be worse. So deal with, be frank, give the feedback. So, you know, I know we're talking about people about receiving it, but we I think what you're calling out is just understand there are some reasons why it might be hard when it's coming at you.

SPEAKER_00 5:40

Yeah. It's not easy, it's not easy, you know, and and I I think that's one of the reasons why when we talk about, you know, you're having to read between the lines and feedback, understand it it's not easy for people. There, I mean, I think it is truly a gift and a skill to give good feedback. Um, but a lot of times I think the other thing we have to think about is in a professional setting, sometimes the feedback and the language that people use, you know, it's it's coded language. Like, you know, I kind of started out when we were talking about you're not strategic enough or you lack executive presence, you know, that's coded language sometimes for really deeper things. Definitely that that you know, the feedback giver or you know, people in authority are noticing um or observing that it's really too hard for them to kind of say.

SPEAKER_03 6:33

Yeah. Yeah. Definitely, boy, that there are a lot of undercurrents. And I think if you're trying to understand the feedback, oh you can't uh I've been in situations where you don't look like the other leaders. Um or you have that coded language, yeah, or um you are different than the other leaders. So you have to understand, you can't toss the feedback because of that. Yeah. You still gotta, okay, let's talk about it. What does that look like? What does it look like that executive president?

SPEAKER_00 7:08

Well, we'll say more about that because you were saying you can't toss the feedback, meaning you can't discount it because what I'm picking up is you're saying there could be something in there.

SPEAKER_03 7:19

Maybe. Maybe maybe you can't disregard. I think um our theme is on feedback, understand it. What are you trying to say to me? Yeah. Whether you are my boss, you are my colleague, you are my friend, you are my brother, yeah. What are you trying to say to me? And you need to understand it. I also think related to that, if you are someone who how long has it been since you've had some feedback? If you haven't had any feedback, that's also concerning. Right. Why? Right. Are you not asking for it? Are you not? That's true. So I think you know, you've got to seek out that interest and understanding how you show up.

SPEAKER_00 8:02

Yeah. The self-awareness. I I've always said, and and maybe this will be one of those other books I'm gonna write one day, and it's um self-awareness, the greatest gift you can give yourself.

SPEAKER_03 8:13

Oh, 100%.

SPEAKER_00 8:14

Right.

SPEAKER_03 8:15

100% on every topic we talk about almost. It's that's like step one. Yeah. Step one. Yeah for sure.

SPEAKER_00 8:22

So, you know, the thing that I I think would keep any of us busy that that work in, you know, in the spaces that we're in where there's coaching and, you know, talent and and human resources um support, you know, and and um strategy, we're always talking about a conversation that needs to be had, the, the leadership moment that needs to be said. And a lot of times um we're only as good as what we know. You know, you can't be what you can't see. And so, you know, in order to show up well, and so I think, you know, what are some ways, or we can talk about, and I want to get your thoughts about some ways um and techniques and tools, maybe we could even call them, that um can be used if you are the receiver of feedback and you're like, I I I don't know what this means. Or you might not agree with it, but yeah, how do you stay curious a little longer?

SPEAKER_03 9:20

I think that's a great way to put it.

SPEAKER_00 9:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:22

And I think if you are when you're the receiver of feedback before that you get defensive, before you get, uh-uh, that's not no, that's not right.

SPEAKER_01 9:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:29

Don't go there yet.

unknown 9:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:31

Try to take it in and listen and then decide. And I ask questions. Well, tell me a little bit more about that. And you know, um, what do you tell what would it look like if I if I were showing more executive presence? What would that look like?

SPEAKER_00 9:46

Yeah, yeah. You're you're absolutely hitting on it. I I think I think we have listeners out there that either they've received some of this vague feedback, they they get it all the time, um, they're not quite sure how to ask because they don't want to come across as seeming difficult.

SPEAKER_03 10:03

For sure.

SPEAKER_00 10:04

Okay. Or they don't want to um, you know, sometimes you get the feedback and you're just kind of reeling from it. You know, you're like, I I I don't even know where that's coming from, right? So that's what we're talking about. I think one of the keys of success in in really navigating uh this receiving of feedback is to stay curious a little bit longer. Like it it may inflame you, let's be real, like when you hear it, but like get yourself to a point where like let me understand more. Right. So here's a couple of things um and tools that I want to run by you. Yeah. I want to see what you think. Okay. So um one of the things that I have tried before is the clarifying question. Okay. So it's, you know, teaching um the feedback giver to respond in the moment. So this is you hear it and you want them to respond in the moment by saying more. You know, so you might say something like, I want to understand what you're seeing. Can you give me um a specific example of when that showed up? What what are your thoughts on that? When I see you laughing and giggling.

SPEAKER_03 11:12

Well, we've talked a little bit about this specific example. Um, the times I've seen this one, I feel like that's you got to be your wording matters because you can put somebody on their back foot because you're going, I need a date. When did that happen? Uh, how did that I need and but really what what your if your goal is, I need I need to better understand it. Yeah. When did this happen? And so I think that wording of giving me a specific example, I need to know something typically when it happened.

SPEAKER_00 11:45

When was it? Where was I? Where were you?

SPEAKER_03 11:48

And what was I doing? You know, I think that's a little bit my opinion is, and I sometimes I can be too, you know, maybe too soft pedaling. Yeah. But I would probably not put you on the defensive and ask it quite that way. Yeah. I would sort of say, let's talk about, you know, what would it look like if I were doing that? Um tell me how you think that meeting that we had um two weeks ago. Can you do you tell me about that? What were your thoughts? Um, I think the you don't want to use language that puts the person as a I'm doing the challenge. I'm not trying to understand. I'm putting you on challenge. Yes. You know, and I prove it. That prove it. And I think that the language you choose needs to be I want to understand you. I am listening to you. That's my goal in in asking these questions.

SPEAKER_01 12:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:39

Not Mark, come on.

SPEAKER_00 12:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:42

I'm putting you on notice because that ain't that's not what happened.

SPEAKER_00 12:45

That's not me. I didn't I didn't do that.

SPEAKER_03 12:46

I didn't do it. I didn't do it. So that's my take.

SPEAKER_00 12:49

All right, no, I like that one. That's it.

SPEAKER_03 12:50

You gotta be a little finesse.

SPEAKER_00 12:52

That's good because I think our listeners, some of them may have tried that one. Yeah. Gotten to that place where it's like, oh, well, I don't know why they I was just asking what they thought and give me an example. But it can code that way. Yeah. Right?

SPEAKER_03 13:04

It can.

SPEAKER_00 13:04

Okay. Speaking of coded language, yes. Um, here's another one. The translation ask. So this is use when language is coded or real vague. You know, um, when you say um executive presence, what behavior would I demonstrate differently in the moment? What do you think about that one?

SPEAKER_03 13:25

It could be. I think, you know, what does executive presence look like to you? Tell me about that.

SPEAKER_00 13:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 13:30

You know, because that is a loaded word, as we've talked a million times, just like, you know, being more strategic. Well, executive presence sometimes means um you don't speak up in meetings. It could be also, I do think, if it is coded, and it is because you are the other you and I use that term a lot. You're not like all the other leaders. You don't look like them, you don't act like them. Whatever it is, you you're trying to tease it out. What does that look like? And sometimes it can be enlightening for the person to realize, well, actually, yeah, maybe I need to rethink that a little bit. But you're trying to understand what is it that how do you see executive presence? Because a lot of people, like if you and I, that topic, if you and I, we talked to eight of our colleagues, everybody would describe it a little bit differently. So what are you looking for? What do you what do you see from me that would really help me take myself to the next gate?

SPEAKER_00 14:25

And that is still good because it per the tool, you are getting them to translate it in how they see it.

SPEAKER_03 14:33

Right.

SPEAKER_00 14:33

One other thought that's coming to my mind is you could ask the person that gave you that feedback, right? You could ask another person and then kind of triangulate it, right? Okay, so executive presence looks like this because I agree. I think people use it a lot. Um, in the environments that I I'm in, I have kindly um said, let's not normalize executive presence.

SPEAKER_03 15:00

I totally agree with you.

SPEAKER_00 15:01

Because it drives people nuts.

SPEAKER_03 15:02

It is a label that is wildly misunderstood and everybody has a different definition. I'm not a fan of executive presence, that term.

SPEAKER_00 15:12

I've actually I've actually reversed it. You know, like you know, you can take a word sometimes and and make it your own, right? And I have said I'm not going to that meeting because I don't think I have the executive presence to sit through it.

SPEAKER_03 15:27

I've put it back on myself, right? I cannot contain, I cannot be right. To be able to suffer through it.

SPEAKER_00 15:34

To suffer through that meeting. That's pretty good. So yeah. Um, okay. So here's another one. Yep. Um, this is the forward focused pattern check. So you're looking for uh a pattern. Is this a pattern? And then you're kind of how what would I do in the future? So this is shifting from the defensive to the offensive, um, and you have to avoid overreacting, right? So what you would say is, is this something you've seen me do consistently? Um what's something I could do different to have the intended impact?

SPEAKER_03 16:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:11

Right. So you're kind of asking for the pattern, and have you seen me do this a lot? And then what could I do differently for the intended impact?

SPEAKER_03 16:20

Right. As a partner in my growth, yeah and helping me develop and be better. What can I do that will help me be able to demonstrate that more? Again, all we're not doing yet. We're not deciding what to do, what the action is yet. Right. We're just trying to we're listening. Understanding. I'm trying to understand. And I think too, let's anchor back. We said at the beginning, people are not good at giving feedback. Yeah. And these examples you're giving, they're people who are not really probably bringing their A game. Yeah. Either because they don't want to or they don't know how. One of the two doesn't matter. Doesn't matter. Yeah. But um, so I think you got to tease that out. I think um, well, I'll just say that. I think that you need to understand that under Yeah. You're gonna have to ask some questions to better understand.

SPEAKER_00 17:03

I I agree. And these tools, you know, so you know, it was the um the clarifying question, um, the translation ask, and then the the forward focused pattern check. All of them are really just tools. You have to make them your own. But what you're trying to do is in the moment, right, when the the feedback is fresh, it's how do I pull down the things that might be important um for me to know and see. Um, so you can use these to help decode the vagueness. You know, getting the the straight talk um can be difficult from people, and and we talked about it. Um, but it's also about you being accountable for your own development.

SPEAKER_03 17:47

Totally. Right. Totally. I also I don't think this is the right time to mention it, but two other thoughts, Mark, related to this. Sometimes feedback is not in you're giving examples of people who aren't giving giving fuzzy. Sometimes fuzzy is a raised eyebrow, a sigh, yeah. A look, uh, a look that I can tell because I know you, I can tell, huh. That's interesting. Yeah. There's a frustration there. Yeah. There's a concern there, and he's not saying it.

SPEAKER_00 18:17

Right.

SPEAKER_03 18:18

You still need to ask the clarifying question. Right, right.

SPEAKER_00 18:20

You sound like my father. It was a raised eyebrow. It was a sigh. Oh, it was body language.

SPEAKER_03 18:28

Oh, big time.

SPEAKER_00 18:29

You know, and I think he would, he would he was saying a lot. Yes. Sometimes with it. Right.

SPEAKER_03 18:33

Right. I think that's true at work. Certainly true outside work. Yeah. And then you got to decide, yeah, do I want to know more about the raised eyebrow?

SPEAKER_00 18:41

Right.

SPEAKER_03 18:41

Or do I not? Yeah. And so I think some of these same questions you're asking, even though they aren't words, you it's fine to say, Mark, I'm sensing that, you know, you you're having some reaction. You're having don't put don't label it. What are your thoughts about how this, this, this thing went, this project went? Because I'm I'm feeling like you have some thoughts.

SPEAKER_00 19:03

Yeah. Tell me about it. Yeah. It's it I like, I really like that point. It it's really impactful because yeah, it doesn't even have to be words. If you are watching and you're reading the room, right, uh, like some of us do, right? It's like, oh, that that's not landing well, or I'm not landing well. Now, you know, I I'll admit I'm I'm probably oversensitive. I'm I'm just looking to be like, you know, how is it landing and what's happening? Is everybody good? Um, but some people just aren't that observant. And so they're missing the cues.

SPEAKER_03 19:36

Back to if you're not getting any feedback.

SPEAKER_00 19:38

If you're not getting any feedback, that's feedback.

SPEAKER_03 19:41

Why? Also, likewise, let's talk about a couple of circumstances that where you're not getting feedback.

SPEAKER_01 19:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:47

Sometimes you want feedback. I'm new in this role. I've been in this role for three or four months. Am I how am I doing?

SPEAKER_01 19:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:53

Ask these same questions. Ask. Or how many times have we laughed about the more senior you get, no feedback.

SPEAKER_00 20:01

Right.

SPEAKER_03 20:01

I mean, oh yeah, you're not getting it. Um Right.

SPEAKER_00 20:04

The more senior you are, leaders just expect you to do the thing.

SPEAKER_03 20:08

Yes. You can do the thing, and that's what it is. And um, and so I think that is so if you are feeling a need for it, even though maybe it's not common, not it's not caused by what someone else said or did to you.

SPEAKER_00 20:23

Right.

SPEAKER_03 20:23

It's that you need it.

SPEAKER_00 20:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 20:26

Ask some of these same questions.

SPEAKER_00 20:27

Yeah, you can still ask. Hey, in this meeting, my goal is to show up this way. This is my intention. I'd love to get some thoughts from you on how I'm doing.

SPEAKER_03 20:37

Absolutely. Take control back to take control of your own development. Right. That's one of the ways you do it. You're not dependent upon what other people are doing and saying you're taking ownership for what you need.

SPEAKER_00 20:48

Yeah. So if you're getting the feedback, right, and you're, you know, you're doing some of these things to clarify the feedback. What do we do with it? So like I I've clarified it. Yeah. You know, maybe it was vague, but now I've done the thing to figure out, okay, oh, that's what you're talking about. Then what do I do with it?

SPEAKER_03 21:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:08

You know?

SPEAKER_03 21:08

I think two things. One, I think you are I'm I've heard you. I've listened to you. I'm not judging. I'm not evaluating. I've heard you. I've not I've stayed curious. I'm listening to what you have to say.

SPEAKER_00 21:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 21:20

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 21:21

So I've the receiver of the feedback.

SPEAKER_03 21:23

I'm a receiver and I'm I'm taking that in. Yeah. Then I think two other things. One, I think you can look at other information that needs to go in to be stirred into the pot. It could be sales data. It could be client feedback. It could be on a friend, a friend basis, like, well, I'm asking this friend to do stuff all the time, but I never it never reciprocates. Um, I'm on the committee, like you talked about you're in the you're on the in college, right? You're on the committee.

SPEAKER_01 21:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 21:51

Why are two of you doing all the work and three are never even coming to the meetings?

SPEAKER_01 21:55

Right.

SPEAKER_03 21:55

Is the data what's the data telling you? What's the information telling you? I think that's that's a Another thing. Then I think you gotta decide what are you gonna do about it?

SPEAKER_01 22:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:05

If anything.

SPEAKER_01 22:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:07

Do I want to act on it?

SPEAKER_01 22:08

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 22:09

Do I not? That's the next step. Now that I understand you, what do I do with it?

SPEAKER_00 22:14

It's it's interesting because I think some people myself included the amount of energy I put into incorporating the feedback and doing something with it is related to my respect for you as the feedback giver. And I've encountered many situations where um somebody has received feedback from someone and they're like, I I don't trust it.

SPEAKER_02 22:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:50

I don't trust them. And and there's many, we we don't have time to get into all those dynamics, you know. Um, but that's really key. And so I I'm interested in your thoughts around that. You know, like it's right, okay, who's giving me the feedback? Okay, I've done the thing to clarify it. That's the other thing. It could be true. It could be something you really need to hear. So using don't just discount it because this is someone I don't really trust. Right. Necessarily, um, what's their proven track record? Yeah. Right? Do yeah, you know, so-and-so might be hard or they might be this way, but actually, they're not wrong.

SPEAKER_03 23:30

See, I think you know, yes, and I think what you're assessing the feedback that you have gotten is is so important. And I think in the majority of cases, yeah, you're gonna take the feedback like we talked about, you're gonna listen and you're gonna have a growth mindset of I'm gonna make the adjustments and adapt, especially if I work for you and I know that's a part of being successful here. I'm probably gonna need to do that. So that's one. There are a few outliers though. And you think about, I mean, how many times look at so many entertainers out there. They've been wildly Lady Gaga rejected seven times. LA Reed, who was she was signed by Def Jam Records for four months and they dropped her because LA Reed said, too boring. Too boring.

SPEAKER_00 24:10

Steve's too boring. Too boring.

SPEAKER_03 24:12

Her voice was too boring. Well, he goes on Hill now. He's interviewed as like one of the, he's a big big time producer for Def Jam. He's like probably the biggest career mistake I have ever made. Oh, yeah. Okay. Had she listened to him, she wouldn't have gone on to be Lady Gaga. Olivia Dean, who's fantastic right now if you're I'm a huge Olivia Dean fan. She is counter to she would her music is not based on what everybody else is doing, even though she was told you need to be more like ABC. She followed her own path. So those are big entertainer examples, but I think you also have to be have some discretion to know is this feedback helping me be who I want to be?

SPEAKER_01 24:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 24:52

And like if it's an organization, you might not be in the organization you want to be in. I think we can think of organization feedback that I know I can. Yes. Like, uh, maybe that's not a maybe I'm not a good fit here.

SPEAKER_00 25:02

Yeah. You know, you know, I'll I'll I'll invite you to think through maybe an example if you're willing to share. But when you talk about, you receive feedback that doesn't feel um congruent. It doesn't feel like where is this coming from? So I was a part of an organization and I got feedback, you know, that I was coming across as not a good team player, that I was, you know, kind of out for myself and some of those things. And what ultimately, I'm truncating the story, but ultimately what I had the aha moment on because I started talking to people that knew me is, you know, and I it was an assessment and all these things, right? You get, and I gave it to them. I said, this is I'm just really confused by this because I've never gotten this feedback before. Right, right. Not you. Right. I've never gotten this feedback before. Well, what happened was the environment that I was in, that was a system, that was a culture. I've seen it myself as well. You don't call uh uh, you know, people's projects, quote unquote, their babies, don't call them ugly. You you're kind, you're nice. And I had come from an environment where you direct, you say what you mean, um, feedback in the moment, and so and you got rewarded for being in that culture. And so when you come to a different culture that's not like that, those individuals will start to code for you what that looks like in their environment. And so what I had to do, and it took me a minute, but I had to step back and I had to personally think what in this feedback that I'm getting do I need to um incorporate? Right. And some of it was vague and it was coded, and and I was like, I don't understand any of this, right? And it took me a minute, but I had to keep seeking. And one of the things I'll say about that that I'm you know actually proud of is that I didn't discount it because by incorporating it, it allowed me to navigate a totally different environment. And when I go into a different environment, I'm I'm seeking like what's going on here, what's happening here? Yeah. Have you ever had or maybe coach someone that's we talked, yeah, we've talked a little bit about I think I have.

SPEAKER_03 27:23

And I think um you and I both, uh, you know, in the Accenture culture, you had a point of view. Yeah. You said what you thought.

SPEAKER_01 27:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 27:31

Uh you were expected to if you were in a meeting. You didn't just sit there. You were there with purpose. Right. That was expected. Um I've had exposure to another organization where someone who had an opinion too outspoken. Someone who or didn't agree with what the bossy boss, instead of being able to say, Well, you might think about that was bad. Excuse me.

SPEAKER_01 27:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 27:56

So I think that is a common, you have to decide what am I going to do with that?

SPEAKER_00 27:59

Mm-hmm. Yeah. So, you know, I think I think that's really real. And I I think if, you know, you're a listener out there listening to this conversation and you're getting feedback, or you know, you've received feedback and it's rolling in your head, and you're like, I've not gotten this before. Or um maybe you've gotten it. And listener, I would challenge you. Is it true?

SPEAKER_03 28:26

Is it true?

SPEAKER_00 28:27

Is it true? Right. And you just need to step back and say, okay, you know, what what then do I want to do about it? And so I think that's what you were saying is I'm who I am, this is who I've been, right? And maybe this isn't the right environment for me to be in, no matter what it is, work, committee, you know, part of this project, you know, that that thing. It may not be the right place for you, you know, because you're having to maybe change too much to fit in. And is that cost something you're willing to bear?

SPEAKER_03 28:58

Right. I think that's a key question in terms of the action.

SPEAKER_00 29:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 29:01

Probably the exception, but there might be situations where you're like, you know what? I this is not the right fit for me.

SPEAKER_01 29:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 29:09

And now I got to decide what I want to do about it. Like you said, do I want to adapt and conform? Do I want to go uh maybe I need to be in another in another spot? Yeah. Hopefully, most of the feedback we're talking about is feedback that you need to understand. Doesn't mean you always are doing a full, you know, adapt to it, but you must that we're we're encouraging you, understand the people giving you feedback. What are they saying to you? Ask for it, seek it out, and then hmm, stay curious.

SPEAKER_00 29:41

What do I what does this mean for me? Yeah, what does it mean? What does it mean? I I think so. I mean, we're all tired of reading between the lines, right? And and and trying to, you know, just can you talk straight? Yeah. You know, just talk straight to me and like what is it? But uh, I think one of my takeaways, I'm gonna ask you about yours, is give give some grace to the person that is giving you the feedback. If if if you feel like it's warranted, right? Like, you know, sometimes you're like, uh this I'm getting feedback from so and so, and you know, I really don't want to hear it. But if it is someone who you know you know and and you know they most likely are coming from a good place, like give them some grace and let it get out there and stay curious. So that that's a big takeaway for me. What about for you?

SPEAKER_03 30:28

Um, I think um don't tr don't judge and evaluate. Um take feedback, look for stay curious, learn, look at it as it a growth opportunity for yourself. I think um also don't take just the words. What are the words saying to you? What is other information? You gave the example in your situation of well, wait, I I had to validate with some other people. Take it in and don't just rely just on the words. And I think um ask the question at the time, ask for clarification, being willing to think on your feet a little bit because it's much harder if you give me feedback and I stew and stew and stew, and then I come back two weeks later. Right. Hey, Mark, remember when you made that one sentence? Right, what was that about? Yeah, you know, so I think um that act on it.

SPEAKER_00 31:24

Yeah.

unknown 31:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 31:25

Ask the questions you need to ask. Ask the questions.

SPEAKER_00 31:28

Right. Because I think um we all deserve to have someone, you know, talk straight, you know, in order for us to understand what we need to do differently. Yeah. If if, you know, if anything. And so I think that's the main takeaway. Yeah, you know, from all of this. You know, stay curious, um, you know, listen, um, be self-aware, right?

SPEAKER_03 31:54

Yeah. Listening and asking questions shows that you care.

SPEAKER_00 31:57

Yeah, absolutely. Right. Yeah, and you know, I I think there's an episode right on the giving of feedback, and we'll do that. Give we should. And giving feedback also should come from a place of care.

SPEAKER_03 32:10

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 32:11

Now, we know sometimes it is not always, but it should come from a place of care, really. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 32:18

And we're saying take account take personal responsibility and accountability for the feedback you get. You don't get, you don't understand.

SPEAKER_01 32:26

That's right.

SPEAKER_03 32:26

Take ownership for it.

SPEAKER_00 32:27

That's right.

SPEAKER_03 32:28

For sure.

SPEAKER_00 32:28

That's right.

SPEAKER_03 32:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:30

Well, I, you know, I I I think we're we're probably at our time. And uh I thought I'm pretty proud of this conversation.

SPEAKER_03 32:37

Yeah. Good conversation.

SPEAKER_00 32:38

Yeah, I'm I'm pretty proud of it. Um, but listeners, we hope that, you know, you enjoy this conversation. And, you know, if it's of use to you, uh, we invite you to um not only, you know, listen, but you know, also share it, you know, with others. If you haven't, and this is your first time to hear, you know, an aren't you tired of podcast, we invite you to subscribe. Uh, and you can catch us where, Patty?

SPEAKER_03 33:06

Catch us on Apple and on Spotify.

SPEAKER_00 33:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 33:10

And you can send questions in at uh podcast at Patty B. Johnson. You can message either either of us on LinkedIn as a great way to do it as well. Send your questions, send comments, suggestions. We've been getting also some great suggestions on topics, which is super helpful. So we'd love hearing from you guys.

SPEAKER_00 33:27

Yeah. You can also join our Aren't You Tired Of community on Instagram, and that's at aren't you tired of underscore social.

SPEAKER_03 33:35

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 33:35

So we hope you join us there. So thanks. Uh, we hope that uh you have a great rest of your day, and uh we'll talk to you soon.

SPEAKER_03 33:43

Yeah, have a great week.