Small Talk - How Can I Make It Easier?

Do you hate small talk? What if the problem isn't the small talk—it's how you've been thinking about it?

Whether it's a social event, family gathering, or work party you have to attend, those conversations don't have to drain your energy. In this episode of Aren't Ya Tired Of...?, Patti and Mark share that a little pre-planning and keeping your curiosity are the secrets to better conversations. They also explore why small talk doesn't have to be so painful and how a few simple techniques can help you feel more comfortable, make it easier, and even enjoy those events you used to dread. 

Please subscribe and share this with anyone who needs to hear this conversation! Check out Aren't Ya Tired Of on YouTube, and follow us on Instagram at arentyatiredof_social.  Send your topic suggestions to podcast@pattibjohnson.com or through DM on LinkedIn or Instagram.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:09

Well, hello, listeners. Welcome to Aren't You Tired Of, the podcast where we talk about things that we are tired of that make us really tired, right? Really tired. We're gonna do and talk about good things to make us work and live well, regardless of being tired about it. So my name is Mark Benton, and I'm here with my co-host, Patty Johnson, everybody.

SPEAKER_02 0:32

Great, glad that you all are here.

SPEAKER_01 0:34

Yeah. So it is summertime.

SPEAKER_02 0:38

It is summertime.

SPEAKER_01 0:39

And we are getting ready for um outdoor parties and spending time outside and gatherings and getting together. And you know, today we're gonna talk about a topic that I think when you're in those settings, it really is something that can be a burden. And it's the topic of small talk.

SPEAKER_02 0:58

Dreaded small talk.

SPEAKER_01 0:59

Dreaded small talk. You know, small talk, it's that brief kind of low stakes, supposedly, conversation, you know, to initiate interaction and, you know, kind of signal, you know, I'm friendly, you know, talk to me. Um, you know, often before like a deep conversation begins, but for some of us, right, it doesn't feel brief. It seems high stakes, and we'd like to avoid it altogether. So, Patty, what is your conversation point here on small talk?

SPEAKER_02 1:30

Well, stressful topic. Okay. Let's go off by saying that. But question as we're talking about small talk, I kind of am thinking there's small talk, you're sitting next to somebody on the plane at small talk. I'm gonna have my ear pods on, I'm not gonna be chatting.

SPEAKER_03 1:43

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:44

But small talk, you you're going to an event you want to go to. Yeah. Maybe you have to go to, you need to go. Which are we kind of talking about here? Because they both can be a little stressful.

SPEAKER_01 1:54

They they both can. Um I'm I'm talking about when you are going to an event and you gotta kind of engage.

SPEAKER_02 2:04

Trevor Burrus, Jr.: Yeah, you gotta do it. You don't have the option to pop your AirPods on at the party.

SPEAKER_01 2:08

Well, yeah. You could, but you could go well. That's gonna send a whole different signal, right? Why why'd you go to the party? Are you there? But I'm talking about, yeah, when you're in a situation where you know there's two or more are gathered, as you say, and we are gonna have to engage in conversation. Yes. You know?

SPEAKER_02 2:23

Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. You know, it's funny because I think of small talk is kind of it reminds me of the the cousin of networking, right? You know, people kind of get a little twitch. The cousin of networking. When you bring it up. People get a little twitch with um with small talk. And I think, you know, we what as we it seems like we do this a lot our top, but you gotta frame reframe how you think about it.

SPEAKER_03 2:48

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:49

Right. I'm not there to like in one of our topics we talked about episodes we talked about, like presentations, don't have your don't be all focused on yourself. Right. Do does my does my outfit look okay? You know, am I interesting? Oh, what do I have to say? Yeah. If you're if you forget it. If your brain's rolling through that, it's gonna, you're not gonna connect with anybody. So I think that's when you gotta get your head on straight, right?

SPEAKER_01 3:13

Yeah, I agree. And you know, and you're right, it does come with a lot of you know social anxiety. And and some people that I know, friends, have told me, I hate chit chat. I I hate small talk because everybody says it. It feels inauthentic. And I I don't feel like I'm really connecting. You know, so I think that's why it's it's an important topic. And, you know, for some people, some listeners out there, in general, it just causes them anxiety. And I love how you said that, you know, it's the the cousin of networking, which is another topic that people are like, uh networking.

SPEAKER_02 3:48

Yeah. Yeah. I think too, I mean, before you ever we can talk in a minute about like once you get there and you're, you know, the chit chat needs to start, right? We'll talk in a minute about that. But I think before you get there, not only getting your head right, yeah, but what can you do to make it a little easier for yourself? Like, you know, who else is gonna be there that you know?

SPEAKER_01 4:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:10

That yeah. Yeah. Maybe ride together. Maybe maybe pre-planned or go.

SPEAKER_01 4:14

Maybe ride together. You know, I used to have um a friend that when we would go to like to work events, it was a season of, you know, you go to these events and you're networking or it's a training or whatever. And when I was younger in my life and career, I didn't mind it, right? But I wonder as we get older, I mind it. Well, I think I want to enjoy it.

SPEAKER_02 4:36

Some of it is more like I don't want to do what I don't want to do. Right. And I think that's the part. I also think, you know, we're kind of narrowing in on this whole thing of small talk. But there are times when there are things you want to go to, and you know, I'm gonna have to chitch. I want to go to the Fourth of July party. Yeah. Yes, of course I want to go. I want to go see the fireworks, I want to get some popsicles. Yeah. Great. I'm gonna go do that. But there are also obligation events. Like, I don't know about you, but like there's maybe there's a client event. There's a the maybe the boss is having a holiday party. You gotta go. So again, another example, like, all right, what can I do before I get there? What what are your I mean, do you is there anything you think about before you get besides who am I gonna know?

SPEAKER_01 5:18

I do, you know, and it as we were kind of thinking through this, I I think there are some ways that you can navigate small talk more comfortably, right? Um, so um I think there's a couple of ways, and I would just say one, I think you can reduce the pressure of it by shifting your mindset from perform to curiosity.

SPEAKER_02 5:44

A hundred percent.

SPEAKER_01 5:45

Right. If you if you s replace like what should I say next, right? To you know, what am I more curious about? Then it gives you really an authentic way to show up and and then be engaged. I I think you know, you were just talking about one of our other episodes about presentations and how if you're all in your head thinking about it, then you're not really on your game.

SPEAKER_02 6:09

No. It's all about you.

SPEAKER_01 6:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:11

It's all about you. And I think I think that is so important. That curiosity, you know, it's funny. It reminds me of um in one of the change workshops that I had done.

SPEAKER_01 6:20

Organizational change.

SPEAKER_02 6:21

Well, or just change workshops with leaders or anybody. Learning to change. Yeah. One of the exercises we did was around the importance of curiosity and and how underrated listening is. And listening is like a superpower. And how we do this exercise where we'd pair people up and they would start with a softball question. Why did you pick the career that you did? Only the rule was you had to ask like four follow-up open-ended questions. And for those of you, if you don't remember in fourth grade, that's it. You can't be a yes-no question, right? It's got it's open-ended. Got it. And you had to just listen. You couldn't take the conversation over. And you know what was crazy is after less than 10 minutes, people that knew each other really, really well walked away with, I didn't know that about him. So it's crazy how with a little bit of listening, that just that curiosity, you can really have some interesting information come out and a way to have a good conversation.

SPEAKER_01 7:17

I didn't think that's where you were going with that. I thought you were gonna say after 10 minutes, they were worn. They were out.

SPEAKER_02 7:23

It is a little tiring. No, that too. Yeah. It is tiring to be an engaged listener because not very many people are. They're always thinking about what they're gonna say next. Well, you're talking and I'm working on the next slide.

SPEAKER_01 7:35

That's right. That's right. And and I've been uh, you know, uh, you know, a culprit to do that. Oh, me too. Right? You know, like I used to always tell people, I'm so good at names. I used to remember names and faces and all that. I can unfortunately, and if you're out there and I've done this to you, I'm gonna apologize now publicly.

SPEAKER_03 7:54

Hey girl.

SPEAKER_01 7:57

Hey friend. Hey friend. I love that now. Because you can just say, hey friend. It's so nice and pleasant and connected.

SPEAKER_02 8:05

It's gotta be the right, though. It can't be like the wrong nickname. No, it's not.

SPEAKER_01 8:09

Like you said, you had that one person you worked with that called everybody Buck. Hey, Buck.

SPEAKER_02 8:16

Yeah, don't go up to someone you haven't seen in five years. Uh-oh. Hey, Buck.

SPEAKER_01 8:20

Hey, Buck. Um So I love hey friend. But I used to remember names so well. And now this is really sad. I could meet you at like two o'clock and forget your name at 205. It's gonna be Buck, man. It's gonna be Buck. Hey friend, hey Buck. Hey Buck. You know? That is true. But here's the thing. So how would you think? Think about this, and I I'd love to get your reaction. So think about small talk as like a social handshake, maybe. Yeah. Not like a full-on conversation. You know, success is creating comfort. You know, maybe not just saying something interesting. So, you know, maybe just it's just the start.

SPEAKER_02 9:01

It's the start. But and I think too, people, you should think about what is hard for you. And sometimes I think people, it's hard to how do I start? You know, and what is it? I mean, I don't ask people, why don't you do what'd you do this weekend? Or you know, where do you guys live? You know, find a little different different twist. Like, you know, Mark, you wear brooches. Yeah. And um, I I think that's interesting. Not every guy shows up in a brooch. And so I think that's right. That'd be if I met you at a party and you had on a brooch, my first question would be like, that is so cool. Mark, tell me, is that a family heirloom? Do you collect them? How do you how do you get your brooches? Right then, all of a sudden you're telling me something interesting.

SPEAKER_01 9:42

Well, I love that you brought that up and you know me, but um that has happened. Like I'm not wearing one today, but when my grandmother passed away, right? So you get a whole story. When my grandmother passed away, um, we were, you know, going through her things and I opened up this drawer and there was, you know, these brooches in there. And, you know, some of them I was like, eh, you know, that that's not me. But some of them were like really nice.

SPEAKER_02 10:08

But you have some beautiful ones. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:09

And I'm like, I wear it. So now when people see it, they're like, they'll ask me, oh, what's that all about? You know, and great conversations too. It opens up the whole conversation.

SPEAKER_02 10:19

Get a few. I think if you can look for a few, or if you can see, look for any hints, or if you maybe you know, well, how have did you grow up in like we're Dallas, you have the listeners, Mark and I live in Dallas.

SPEAKER_03 10:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:31

Did you grow up in Dallas? Is it is this home for you?

SPEAKER_03 10:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:34

Okay, all of a sudden you're gonna find out, well, no, I, you know, I actually grew up in Georgia. Right. Okay, well, then what do you think of when you think of Georgia? Well, you know, of course for me, I'm a football person. I'm probably like an are you tell me, are you a Georgia fan? They'll probably say no. And then that's that.

SPEAKER_01 10:49

And then then the land. But uh maybe they are.

SPEAKER_02 10:52

Maybe they are. But you know what I mean? Like, what is it that you think of? Or um, you know, find something that is a little different twist than the typical, you know, or maybe if you're at a party, you talked about the gatherings in the summer. Yeah. Maybe you're at somebody's house and so on. Well, mm, how do you know Shelly? Right. Tell me how to do that. We all know each other. Oh, you were involved in some women's group.

SPEAKER_03 11:18

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 11:18

That's oh, tell me, tell me what was that about? You know, and so look for something you can like.

SPEAKER_01 11:24

Everything you're saying is about being curious.

SPEAKER_02 11:27

Curious. I think that is the word of the 100.

SPEAKER_01 11:31

100%. You know? Yes. Um, here's one, you know, going from, and you said this, like instead of saying getting to the chit-chat loop, I'll call it, which can be frustrating because then you are in your head thinking about what's the next thing I got to ask because I'm stuck in this loop. Instead of saying, how was your weekend? There's another one that I've heard is um, what do you enjoy doing on your free time or in your free time? That's a good one.

SPEAKER_02 11:54

Yeah, it can be. You know, or if you can look for a hint of something to narrow it a little bit, but you're looking for something like that that is, you know, or what do you got, what are you guys gonna do this weekend? What are you, you know, oh, we're gonna, you know, I'm I'm played, I play tennis on Saturday. Oh my gosh. Were you well, then you find out, oh, they're on the tennis team in high school. That's so great. Hey, did you keep playing the whole way through?

SPEAKER_03 12:16

Right.

SPEAKER_02 12:16

What was that like? You know, find something if your mind is is around interesting questions and so on, it makes it easier. I also think um I've seen people like talk about the little pre-planning is look and see who else is gonna be there.

SPEAKER_01 12:32

That's right.

SPEAKER_02 12:32

Who else do I know? Who am I wanna go meet?

SPEAKER_03 12:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:35

I mean, I have something a month or so ago, and somebody came up to me and said, You're good friends with Betsy, aren't you? And like, yeah, I've heard your name. Or, you know, something that is like, yes, how do you guys know each other? But that was a great way to go, you know, start a conversation. So a little bit of pre-planning, who else is gonna be there? Yeah. What can you do to make, I think that's one of the things is if you know, we always like what's in your head, how you think about it, be curious. How can you make the event fun for you and interesting? How do you um what are the things that are stressful for you about the event and know it ahead of time?

SPEAKER_01 13:16

Oh, I love how you just said that. Because I think another tip for listeners that you know kind of struggle with that is uh respect your energy and also respect the person you're talking to's energy. Right? No, know who you are and know who they are and try to match their energy if you can, you know, if that makes sense. Um pace and curiosity. Um here's the word boundaries. Also, manage boundaries. Remember, you had a story that you were telling me about uh someone that, you know, maybe you knew, worked with or something, and they were just Mr. 9,000 questions.

SPEAKER_02 13:53

Yes. She was uh it was, and you could tell she was working on questions to the point that it got it was almost it it it been turned into an interrogation. Interrogation. So somebody with good intent and super nice person. But it was um I'm gonna need to wrap this up, is what I'm thinking. Right. So, you know, I think you can swing it too far. You gotta, you know, you you can't just be like question, question, question, question.

SPEAKER_00 14:20

No, Patty, where do y'all go on your vacations?

SPEAKER_02 14:23

Oh, you do? Well, why why do you go there? Where is it? Where is it? Well, how many how often do you go?

SPEAKER_00 14:28

Is the weather normally good when y'all go there? You gotta have some conversations. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 14:34

You gotta have some conversation. Right. It's got to be a kind of a a back and forth. You know, I also terms of tips before you get there. Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 14:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:43

Couple of things. Number one, two, two. If it is an event that Matt like you're you're better to opt out. I mean, you don't like to small talk and you're like, Right. You're you're sitting there going, you and Shelly, we don't want to be here. I do think you gotta think, is this an event that's really important to that person?

SPEAKER_01 15:01

Oh, that's true.

SPEAKER_02 15:02

If it is a baby shower, wedding shower, if it's a wedding, you know, you've already RCP. That's probably a bad example. But it is something that is really important to that person, you need to get your Bohan ready to go. You gotta go. Put on your game face. Put on your game face and say, and I also think sometimes I know uh I've gone to things, it was more like this is something I want to do for that person. Oh is it my favorite thing to do on this Saturday night? No. But I know it means a lot to her. I will be there.

SPEAKER_01 15:33

Yeah. I think that that's another key point about this because is it's also making it not about you, right? And it's it's a good thing to say, yes, this this is I'm going with, you know, my significant other, my partner, you know, my spouse to say this is an important event for them. And so I'm gonna go and show up and, you know, do all the things to support them. I think that's really, really important. You know, I I think about the the sitcoms and things where, you know, in some of those rom coms where you go to the event with your special person or whatever and they ruin it for you.

SPEAKER_02 16:11

You gotta know who you're if your special person is.

SPEAKER_01 16:14

You gotta know who you're bringing.

SPEAKER_02 16:15

You gotta know who you're bringing. Whoever that special person is, your partner, yeah, your maybe you're bringing your one of your really good friends. Yeah. You gotta know, are they gonna click with the rest of the gang?

SPEAKER_01 16:27

That's right.

SPEAKER_02 16:28

Otherwise, you may increase your stress.

SPEAKER_01 16:30

Well, you know, I I have a situation at that happened where I, you know, asked a buddy of mine to go to, you know, a thing with me.

SPEAKER_02 16:40

He's got to everybody with the round telling jokes.

SPEAKER_01 16:42

And he was telling jokes and then got lit. I mean, just like over as my mom used to say, not just drunk, but running drunk. Oh. Like, and just like you're like, who can get you out of here?

SPEAKER_00 16:56

We got to go.

SPEAKER_01 16:57

Like, you know. So you just you gotta know who you bring in.

SPEAKER_02 17:00

You gotta know. That is a great point. Yeah. Yeah. And if you're if you're yeah, if that person's your plus one at the wedding, well, it's gonna be stressful. It's that kind of wedding. Right.

SPEAKER_01 17:13

Right. Oh my gosh. Yes. Well, I have a couple of fun facts that I I checked into because I was really um interested in this whole topic of small talk. And so before we wrap up, I wanted to just share one quick thing.

SPEAKER_02 17:27

Well, I've got a couple other things I want to say too. Well, before I share my fun facts, don't share the fun facts yet. Okay. Yeah. This is in terms of wrapping up. Yeah. Is have you ever noticed that, and sorry to rewind Mark, but this was just going through my hand.

SPEAKER_00 17:41

No.

SPEAKER_02 17:41

Is one of the most stressful things is the wrap-up. You know, like I've come over, you and I have chatted a minute, and we've had a good conversation. How do you wrap up? And we start, it starts to be a little lull. Okay. It's a party, it's a gathering of people. And I, I mean, and I have felt this myself. I need this needs to end, and I don't know how to do it. And I think, you know, I would encourage listeners to go ahead. If no, if you know that is gonna be hard for you. And most people it is. Yeah. Okay, you got to have a few in your hip pocket, right? You gotta be like, you know, I Jim's running around here somewhere. I need to go, I'm gonna go catch up with him. So great talking to you guys. Yeah. Or I I did not have a chance to eat dinner. I have got to go get a snack. Right. So nice talking to you guys. I've got to go get a drink. Yeah. Whatever it is, if you're really desperate. Where's the bathroom? Well, you know. Can you point me where the bathroom is? Do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 18:41

That is that one. Like, oh, you know, I mean to find the men's rooms. Like just yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:45

Do you know where that is? It it all of a sudden you can have a good short conversation that went really, really well. And you if you just keep standing there because you don't want to move, you don't want to do it again. Yeah. It then all of a sudden your stress level is going beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep.

SPEAKER_01 19:01

Yeah. And you you stop listening.

SPEAKER_02 19:03

You stop listening.

SPEAKER_01 19:04

You stop listening. Like there was something, I'll say this super quick too. There was something on um Instagram where it was like in 2026, when I'm done with a conversation, I'm just gonna give it a thumbs down. So I just I like the fact that, you know, someone's just talking and you just like, you know, listeners, if you're listening, you can't see me. But like if you can on audio, you just I'm done.

SPEAKER_02 19:24

No, I'm I'm only moving on.

SPEAKER_01 19:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:27

Oh, well, how do you think about this? And da-da-da.

SPEAKER_01 19:29

Mm-hmm. Thumbs down. Yeah, thumbs down.

SPEAKER_02 19:31

I'm done.

SPEAKER_01 19:31

I'm done.

SPEAKER_02 19:32

Well, okay.

SPEAKER_01 19:33

I mean, that could be one way out.

SPEAKER_02 19:34

That could be that could be you'd be way right out the door, right? You know what I'm saying? The other thing, what about the event that we talked about this at the beginning? You you're obligated to go.

SPEAKER_03 19:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:46

Okay. So back to the departure, I have a couple of thoughts on that. Yeah. You can also ahead of time, you know, I I need to go. Okay?

SPEAKER_03 19:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:57

The big boss is having the holiday party at her home.

SPEAKER_01 20:02

You gotta be going. I gotta be there. I gotta go. I gotta go. Yeah, I'm expecting.

SPEAKER_02 20:06

Well, I think you can also let people know in advance, we have one more thing I have to go to that night. You don't have to say Yeah, where and you don't have to say, oh, I can about an hour and a half is all I can. You're not gonna say that. But you can say, I have one more thing I have to do, to have to go to tonight. Yeah. Or don't. Just as you're leaving, say, Yeah, we've got to go to one more thing, whatever it is. If you can, the other thing we've done, I know, with like when there's been an obligation event, like how can we make it fun? Okay, well, we'll ride with some. There's another couple other friends we know who are going, ride with them. Yeah. Let's go to that for a little while. Yeah. Then let's go have a great dinner.

SPEAKER_01 20:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:48

Okay, all of a sudden now an obligation night, this sounds fun. Yeah. You know, and so I like that.

SPEAKER_01 20:53

I think I like that.

SPEAKER_02 20:54

You gotta kind of ahead of time, those obligation events. Sometimes I think you talk about the groan of small talk. That's when I'm when I feel like the most, oh, I've got to go to this thing. I don't wanna go. I've got to go to this thing. You know?

SPEAKER_01 21:07

No, I I think that's really good. And I'm I'm sensing that you you might be a little bit of a pro at this. Like, you know, like if I go to the obligation thing, we're gonna have a little fun dinner or do something else later.

SPEAKER_02 21:18

Oh, I think that's a good idea. It's a mind trick. I think that's a good idea. How can you make it fun? I do know someone who I haven't done it. It's not really my style.

SPEAKER_03 21:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:26

But I do know someone who would go to events like that and say, I'm gonna go have small talk with five people. Oh, yeah. When I have met five people, I'm out of here.

SPEAKER_01 21:37

Yeah, Patty out. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:38

And they still kind of like, we're gonna have make this a little game. Okay. Now, I don't know. That's not really I don't know, would you ever do this on my own?

SPEAKER_01 21:45

No, because it would be energy for me and the energy that I I want to put into something else, like maybe checking out the charcuterie or you know, or just something else.

SPEAKER_02 21:57

Yeah. We can go meet one person and go hang out. out the charcuterie.

SPEAKER_01 22:01

No, well, maybe.

SPEAKER_02 22:02

Well, and you might be like competitive where I'd say, I've met my five people. You said, I'm gonna make it six.

SPEAKER_01 22:08

I'm gonna go. I'm gonna see your five.

SPEAKER_02 22:11

I'm gonna see your five.

SPEAKER_01 22:12

And I'm gonna do three more.

SPEAKER_02 22:13

Yes. Seriously. So you just make yourself out the door. I got more work to do.

SPEAKER_01 22:18

I have met thrice the people. You know? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:22

But I think the thing we're getting in before, I know you're talking about fun facts. Yeah. But I do think I love that I think that our encouragement as you hear us just brainstorming talking about things we've done or seen. Yeah. It's like, what are those little tricks that because we all have to small talk, unless you are a hermit or you are a solo person working by yourself all the time, you're gonna have to do a little of this. You know? So you've got to figure out how can I make it fit me? How can I feel more comfortable and not so freaking miserable.

SPEAKER_01 22:51

Well that's the thing. We've we've talked about a bunch of different things, but what we really want to address here is that if you know small talk is, you know, work for you, then you know, here's some things that can help you. And I mean I didn't think about it until we really started talking about this, but it kind of becomes fun to me. Like if I catch the person that is not good at it or I can tell they're like you know 9,000 questions, I'll just start throwing them back, you know? And why'd you pick that shirt? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:22

Well you know and yeah and I think Mark, you know, obviously I've known you a long time. I think one of the things you're a natural at, I'm not sure what what your the magic is, is the when you meet people, it's a little bit like, well hi friend. I've like I've known you forever. Oh and and I don't know if that's it's not really words. I would say it's more of an openness. Yeah. Now you privately will say small talk wears me out.

SPEAKER_03 23:45

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:46

But at the same time, there's that openness of at the time, once you get there, that I don't know how you how do you do that?

SPEAKER_01 23:55

Well you know what I I realized that um I think at my core I'm interested in people. I'm interested in people. And it's something about I feel like we're in a world sometimes where we aren't opening the door. You know and and so what I was thinking while you were talking is if you're one of those people that really enjoys the small talk and you know and you thrive and you get your energy there, help help those that don't.

SPEAKER_02 24:24

Because you can probably tell yeah I think that's a great point.

SPEAKER_01 24:27

Yeah. You know that maybe that's your I just never want someone to feel uncomfortable.

SPEAKER_02 24:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:33

You know with me. You know now bring a little humor too well I mean but you know what I was really curious about the biological behavior around this topic. Like humans versus other species and you know I think we've seen this you know if you watch like documentaries on primates and apes and stuff they don't talk they groom each other. So like have you ever seen like apes sitting around and they're like you know doing the little thing don't do that the party. No you don't pick people don't don't pick people. But that's what they do. And and it's and it's there's no talking but what it's doing is it's signaling goodwill. Yeah and and it's trust and it's care.

SPEAKER_02 25:16

Yeah somebody has a bug on them.

SPEAKER_01 25:17

Well I'm gonna need to party yeah yeah you know I used to pride myself um before I talk about the next one is I might be go up and say hey friend don't someone has a fly on their nose you slap them across the face don't don't do it's a fly fly on flying them across the face you're welcome yeah didn't want that to bite you no heaven forbid so okay sorry so primates primates primates they they they they kind of groom they groom each other right you know and that's good dolphins they rely on vocal screech so you know when they're doing an ugh don't do that at the point don't no no don't do that could you imagine you're trying to call the person you came with like all right don't do that don't do it so you know you might think it's just noise but that's the way that they communicate so just because it might you know seem one way it's really um a form of communication I think what you're trying to say it is natural behavior it's natural behavior it's natural behavior it's natural behavior it's natural behavior that other species really does very important absolutely teach us the lesson oh you guys you know what listeners um we're having a giggle we're having a good giggle over here um on on the expense of primates and dogs yes we are yes what I will say is that um it helps people to say I see you yeah and that's what you want that's what you want that's what you're looking for absolutely what you're looking for absolutely so do we want to end with some tips? I well I do I I'd love to um and why don't you start well I think mine I got a few one you got to change how you think about it.

SPEAKER_02 27:18

If you have got this label small talk is networking and I hate it and I it wears me out. Yeah I mean it's like anything if you have those kind of like tapes running in your head it's not gonna be fun for you. It's not gonna be fun it's not gonna be fun. So you got to reframe that. Secondly we've talked before it's not about you quit if you're all up in your head of how many times you go to events, does this outfit look all right? Yeah you know oh my I don't know I think I I think I've I think I've overdressed. I will I pull up oh my gosh everybody's in shorts and I've got a dress oh my gosh. I mean stop okay it's not all about you. You're there to to meet and be curious. I think that is you brought that up I think that's the key word. I also think to do a little bit of mental pre-planning to make sure you know who's going to be there that you know and maybe you want to connect with and I'll just say one more thing and then I'll you can give your tips. Yeah no like we always I I do I'll say me. Yeah people that I haven't seen in a minute even on the way over to their house or whatever, I'll be thinking now, okay the last time I saw them, okay, let's see. All right they just got back from a trip to Maine. I know they were doing that and I think they're really into hacks which by the way oh my gosh the best finale ever you know uh oh the show hacks oh the show hacks so good yeah uh they're really into hacks and it just ended the season just ended I'll want to talk to them about that yep um I think their son maybe just moved to Austin. I need to find out how that moved so almost like you do a few mental prompts it's not like you're scripting yourself no but you're refreshing yeah it's almost like you're hitting refresh on that person. Yeah some people I know who are very active socially they'll in their contacts take a few take some notes I used to do that some in business I don't really do that now yeah but just kind of a pause and think what's going on with this person? Oh they just got promoted. I need to be sure and recognize them for that. You know things like that. Yeah you talk about that just honor the other person and you know and so on. I just think a little bit of mental refresh can help you do it.

SPEAKER_01 29:32

Oh I really like that. I really like that and I was reflecting as you were talking about you know you you said you know when you see me interacting with people how I you know show up and I'm reminded that my um I you know I take my cues you know from you know those that I've seen around me and my grandmother was a very gracious person. You know, never met a stranger, you know always could have a kind word for someone. And I don't know I just saw how that energy came back to her. And so I I just think especially you know in in the world that we live in um it's something there's a magnet that's on our refrigerator and it says you know in a world where you can be anything be kind. Yeah. And so I I just think you know when it comes to small talk think about it as an opportunity.

SPEAKER_00 30:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:24

And for me, you know, this this is a five minute opportunity or this is a 10 minute opportunity. It's not a big deal. It doesn't have to go on and drone on.

SPEAKER_02 30:33

So that you know I think those are some kinds of things kind be curious. Those are kind of two things you've mentioned I love that. I love that with that we're gonna could have put a bow on small talk. We know it's the reality of life. We all have it I think our encouragement to you guys is don't let it be such a big deal. Do a little get your mind right do a little pre-planning and you can make it a less of a thing less of a thing.

SPEAKER_01 30:59

Don't don't let it cause you to miss something that you want to go to I like that the call to action Patty that I'm reminded of is listeners if you try some of these tips and they work for you let us know.

SPEAKER_02 31:08

Yeah we'd love to hear we'd love to hear thank you guys for spending time with us um on this important topic and also please like the podcast subscribe share with someone if you're like you've had conversations with someone who's having a problem with small talk please send it over and we're on Apple, Spotify, and um you can join our community on Instagram aren't you tired of social. All right have a great week everybody take care thank you