Child's Play (1988)

This week, hosts Frank and Andrew discuss the iconic supernatural slasher Child's Play! What happens when a bad man enters a Good Guy?! Please join us for a scene by scene break down of this iconic film.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:12

Welcome to You Killed Clyde. I'm your host, Frank. And I'm Andrew. And today we're going to be discussing pint-sized ragamuffins, melted cheese heads, and what it means to become human. Folks, today we're talking about the 1988 film Child's Play about a widowed mother who gives a new doll to her son, unaware that it is possessed by the soul of a serial killer. I've thought a lot about like I feel like we really need like a dun dun dun kind of a sound. Yeah. But maybe that might be annoying. So today, Andrew and I are going to break down this film scene by scene loosely. So if you haven't seen it, pause, take a break, watch it, come back and join us.

SPEAKER_01 1:09

It is only 84 minutes, so it shouldn't take you long.

SPEAKER_00 1:13

You know, honestly, because we're kind of like new to this podcasting thing, I enjoy the shorter films because it allows me more time to focus on the script. I feel like if it's even like 20, 25 minutes longer, it starts to get very involved. So I think just to practice, I was very happy that this film was actually like quite short.

SPEAKER_01 1:38

Yeah, and it's I this film doesn't uh need to be any longer.

SPEAKER_00 1:44

Oh, not at all.

SPEAKER_01 1:45

Its length is great.

SPEAKER_00 1:46

You know what's funny? I don't really like I don't know about you, but like my obviously like my favorite franchise has always been Nightmare Null Street. Like, I'm like a hardcore Nightmare fan, and I think like we will tackle those as or if you know this continues and I I improve. Uh I'd love to tackle some of those like bigger player films, but I I never really think of like child's play when I think of classic franchises like Halloween or Friday the 13th or Scream even. And so when you mentioned Child's Play, I was like, oh, this is like kind of interesting because I haven't thought or seen this movie in like 20 years.

SPEAKER_01 2:23

Yeah, it's it's interesting because this film I think could have easily been a one-off movie, and the fact that it spawned a franchise that is still popular in the minds of people today. Uh, I mean, there's a there was a relatively recent television show. Uh, there was a shitty remake in like 2019. Yeah. Um, so the the franchise has been alive and well for yeah, a long time.

SPEAKER_00 2:50

Do you know that that movie in 2019? Like, not to like harp on it too hard, but I I I can't I've seen it like maybe five or six years ago, but there is no voodoo in that movie at all. And the voodoo is what I fucking love about Chucky. Like the supernatural aspect of this is really neat, I think.

SPEAKER_01 3:04

Yeah, I haven't seen it from the fact that the voice actor, what is it, Brad Duroff, or what's his name? Dorif. Yeah, Doriff. Um, was not involved, like who is the voice, like he is Chucky. Um, and the fact that they went with this, they try to like modernize it with some AI BS or like a robot BS. I haven't seen it, so for those who've seen it, I'm sorry. Um, I just hear it, it just seems it just seems like they made a remake, they made a remake without any soul in it at all. So literally well, you can't say it's shitty if you haven't seen it. I said I heard it's shitty. I heard it's shitty. I said I heard I said I heard it's shitty. I'm not saying it's shitty, I said I heard it was shitty. I had multiple friends, a girlfriend, and reviews tell me it was not good.

SPEAKER_00 3:49

Okay, that's fair. Um I okay, so this one I actually I so you know I write the script for these, obviously. And uh uh I usually write the script while I'm watching the movie, and then the next day or like a Saturday, I'll go to a coffee shop and I'll write, I'll rewrite the script. Like I want it to be like entertaining, keeps us grounded. But this one I did a little differently. Like I wrote the script while I was watching the movie and finished it, but then the next morning I'm like, okay, Frank, the script is done. Let's just watch the movie, like let's just shoot the shit, watch the movie, and fuck did I get like so much more out of it? Like, for instance, at the end, he enters Andy's apartment through the chimney and just fucking boots the chimney gate like across the room. And I was like, this is rad. I just totally missed that on first watch.

SPEAKER_01 4:47

Yeah, I uh I I found that too. I found I've watched this twice this week. Um and I find doing a raw watching and not worrying about the podcast while watching it and just watching the movie for what it is actually gives me more to talk about than just taking every single little note that I have to say about it.

SPEAKER_00 5:07

Yeah, I agree. It's it's almost like I'm the free flow, like I just noticed a lot, a lot more. And the thing is, like, there are a lot of like okay, I'll give you an example. If someone was to break down Nightmare on Elm Street and they were like, you know, joking about it or they were trying to be funny, I would be like pissed because that to me is like that film to me is literally in my top 10 favorite films of all time, like right up there with like Alien. So as I review this with you, I do want to poke holes in some of the plot, but I would like to respect the fact that a lot of people probably like really, really love this film. I really like this film, and I thought it was like it delivered all like the right beats. I thought maybe the hospital stuff lagged slightly for me, but other than that, like I on Rewatch, I really just enjoyed it and it was very fast-paced, and I loved all the characters and the acting was great.

SPEAKER_01 6:09

Yeah, this is this is a movie with uh I wouldn't say breakneck pacing, but the pacing of this movie is is fantastic. You really uh just a case in point, you know, we're we'll talk about this scene by scene, but you know, Andy doesn't get a doll, the good guy doll. I want a good guy doll mom. Next scene, she gets a good guy doll. Like it's yeah, it's very much like it's it's it's very this this train of this movie really um flies along the tracks in a really great pace. And uh and speaking of like people who like like this movie or if it stands up today, I watched this with uh my girlfriend who hadn't who had never seen this movie ever, and uh and I hadn't seen it in a long time, and it's still like such a fun, and she loved it. She had never seen it, she loved it, and then um it's just a fun movie. I think it's a fun, and it's like intentionally hilarious at times. Yeah, I was gonna say the one thing I I don't think you've seen the TV show, correct? I've seen so the I watched the first few episodes on Netflix, I think, and I had it was it was kind of fun.

SPEAKER_00 7:11

I think the TV show is like amazing, and I think they totally take the piss out, and I think it's just really funny. But it's kind of like Nightmare and Elm Street in the sense that like this first movie it is packaged as a scary horror film, and they've somehow parlayed it into like a hilarious so I guess I appreciate the horror aspect of this film, but there is this moment when he's like electrocuting the doctor where he like gives a giggle, yeah. Like he's just like having so much fun, and I think that's the first like glimpse of like the funny Chucky, and I hate to like make parallels between like Nightmare Elm Street and this, but like the same thing happened with Freddie, where like he in the first movie there are next to no funny one-liners, like he does say and do some like really gruesome stuff that you know I I think he thinks is funny, and same with Chucky here, but then they kind of ramp up the humor. Like when you get to part four, it's like you know.

SPEAKER_01 8:14

I also think it's worth I think the comparison's worth it too, because we the you don't often like a lot of killers are not like charming or full of personality, that a lot of times they're this unstoppable force, they want to kill you. Um, that's it. But uh like Michael Myers, yeah, like Myers, Jason, you know, uh a lot of movies, uh uh Terminator, you know, like um, whereas Chucky, like you said with his giggle, like just a lot of personality in his sadism and dis like malcontent for the people around him.

SPEAKER_00 8:49

But he also like gets such joy in torturing people, yeah. He like like he's having so much fun electrocuting the shit out of that doctor. And quite frankly, you know, I don't advocate, you know, death and murder, but like that guy was a dick. Yeah, he was a shithead. He treated Andy like a shithead too. Yeah, poor Andy. Andy reminded me so much of the kid from The Shining, like in the hospital scene for some reason. And I have a story later about like why his acting in that particular uh scene from the film is so good. Um, but I thought he was like outstanding, and I'm really surprised that he's not traumatized uh to this day. And he's actually in the show and he's in like subsequent films, so they kept him around, which is awesome. Yeah. Okay. Uh I have some light background here. So this is the thing. I actually went into uh a little bit longer of a background here, only because it is child's play, and I just want to make sure that we're like doing it justice. And I think the inception of it and how it came to be and how they developed it was actually pretty cool. So I'm gonna go into a little background here, and uh Andrew, feel free to hop in uh whenever you'd like. Alrighty, okay. So, again, there's tons of info online about like rewrites, securing funding, arbitration. Like, you could write a book on like the production history from this film, but I'm just going to pick the top-level info here that I find interesting and kind of like just threads the story together. So, this is by no means like an exhaustive research paper. This is just the stuff that I found really cool. So, according to an interview with Mental Floss, screenwriter Dan Mancini first conceived of the concept while studying literature at UCLA in 1985, three years before the film would be released, which is that's a quick timeline. And he was inspired by consumerism and its effects on children. Based on his personal experience with his father, who was an advertising executive, he was also inspired by the cabbage patch riots of 1983. And I had to look this up because I was like, what is a what is a what was a cabbage patch riot? And a cabbage pat riot, it was a series of violent customer outbursts at several retail locations across the United States in the fall and winter of 1983, where people would just go nuts at the store to get their hands on these dolls. Is that crazy?

SPEAKER_01 11:29

It's funny that you say that because I remember I remember, I think I remember mom talking about how insanely popular the cabbage patch dolls used to be.

SPEAKER_00 11:38

Mancini's troubled relationship with his own father and his experiences of alienation as a gay man, which I didn't know, which is really cool, caused him to center the script around a child with a single mother and no father figure. And in the initial script, the doll was supposed to represent Andy's subconscious rage caused by his parents' divorce and would have targeted his enemies. So the script was written to play with the audience a bit longer, making it ambiguous as to whether Andy or Chucky was the killer. And to some extent, I believe this movie gaslights the other characters into thinking this very same thing. So I actually do want to pause here because I think one of the cool things about this movie, and I'd love to hear your take, is there's a lot of dramatic irony here, like similar to The Invisible Man, where like the central character knows what's up, but the other characters think it's them who's doing this like bad thing. And it's really good. I like that play.

SPEAKER_01 12:33

Yeah, we well, we'll probably go into this with the uh um in those opening scenes, but there's a lot of funny like when Andy says, uh Chucky wants to watch the nine o'clock news. Like I find this line so funny. And then, of course, we had our first murder, and the detective, who's probably the most nonchalant, unimpressed detective in any movie I've ever seen. Um he's so unbothered by everything around him, uh, that he he questions Andy himself. And I think that you do get a little bit of that where the characters like, did Andy push this woman out the window? And so I do like that they played that a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 13:18

I just I just like that that invisible man quality of this movie where and the other movies do that too. Like part two is all about that. Like his is foster parents believe it's him who's doing this like really terrible stuff, and it makes sense because no one would believe that a doll is capable of murder.

SPEAKER_01 13:31

So it's also it's the fun, it's fun seeing the rest of the cast, the rest of the characters come to the realization that the the main character was right all along. Yeah, I love that. That's always a fun moment in these movies. Like it happened, like you said, a great example is that the the Invisible Man uh with Elizabeth Moss there, where like she's so traumatized, people think that she's legit gone crazy. Um, and this is similar to that, where it's like, oh, it's just this little kid with an imagination.

SPEAKER_00 14:01

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 14:03

Who's a murderous little little kid?

SPEAKER_00 14:06

Okay. Although David Kirshner, who would produce all seven films, Andrew, and the television series and the child's play uh franchise, enjoyed Mancini's original script. He wanted extensive rewrites because he feared that having the doll be a manifestation of Andy's subconscious anger would make the protagonist too unsympathetic to audiences. Mancini did write a second draft, and Kirschner sent it in his drawings of the doll to major studios. He was able to attract more interest due to the success of an American tale and his links with Steven Spielberg. So can you believe that the guy who actually ended up producing this film is the same guy who made American Tale? Like Fival goes west. Like what a what a departure.

SPEAKER_01 14:50

That's awesome. I didn't know any of this. This is real I'm I'm hearing this for the first time. That's this is actually pretty cool. Yeah, it's neat.

SPEAKER_00 14:56

It's it's actually kind of cool. So there is a load of history here on like rewrites, but I've condensed it slightly uh because I I did find it, I found it super, super interesting. Um, Kirschner went on to hire Tom Holland to rewrite and direct the film. And he conceived of the idea that the doll would be possessed by a serial killer, and he named the new character Charles Lee Ray based on Charles Manson, Lee Harvey Oswald, and James Earl Ray. However, Holland could not, for the life of him, figure out how Ray's soul would possess the doll in the story and ultimately just quit the project. So that's writer number two. Writer's block and just left? Yeah, he just quit. He uh he uh I think he had another engagement, but what I read was the what the sentence that I just read to you. So so, however, Kirschner hired John Lafayia to complete the new script, and in Lafay's rewritten script, Charles LeRay's soul would have been transferred to the buddy doll while being executed by the electric chair as the doll was being manufactured in another location. So we're slowly inching closer to the final product here. So Lafay wanted to direct the film himself, but was turned down because he had never directed a feature-length motion picture. And finally, Holland was hired back on to hit the home run, arriving at the concept that indeed Charles Lee Ray had transferred his soul to the doll via voodoo magic with the help from Dumbala. And yes, folks, I actually looked up Dumbala, and Dumbala is a real African voodoo thing. So entirely true. This is a basically a biopic. Yeah, it's interesting to see like how things kind of manifest and go. I have a little more here, but um, yeah, there, but again, folks, there is like pages of information that you could uh you could dive into. But anyway, okay, so I wanted to, Andrew, I uh I wanted to put you on the spot and ask you how in the hell do you think Child's Play was received?

SPEAKER_01 17:04

I think this movie was received well by critics and well by fans. I'm gonna say that. I think it's a great movie. So if we were to take it a step further, what would you think its percentage on Rotten Tomatoes is? It's gotta be 80s, like high 80s, I would say. You would be incorrect. Oh, damn.

SPEAKER_00 17:24

So it sits at a 64% based on 95 reviews in Rotten Tomatoes. On Metacritic, the film has an average score of 58 out of 100 based on 18 critics, and audiences pulled by cinema score gave the film a grade of B on an A plus to F scale. So uh not as high as I would have put it. I thought it was like incredibly inventive, and like all of the great things that we talked about earlier were definitely encompassed in this film. So I found that a little surprising. Yeah, me too. But it received generally positive reviews from critics when it first came out, and it grossed more than$44 million against a production budget of 9 million, spawning an insane catalog of sequels and a TV show, which again I thought was absolutely brilliant. So, one thing, critics who had previously been dismissive of the slasher genre lauded the film for its distinctive villain, unsettling puppetry work, concise storytelling, and death scenes. So surprising review scores uh currently, but I I believe it did introduce uh some fundamental changes to the genre and definitely was at least inventive and creative, which is mimicked by the critics, right?

SPEAKER_01 18:52

Yeah, I think this is the one of the most inventive tastes on a slasher killer genre.

SPEAKER_00 19:00

Did you notice uh and we'll definitely talk about this later, but did you notice like the parallels between like at the end, the parallels between this film and Terminator?

SPEAKER_01 19:12

Yes, yeah, I'm great, I have to say, yeah, I have to uh I will talk about that for sure. I mean it's very I think it's on the nose in a good way, but uh yes, I didn't notice that. I laughed, I I laughed actually. Yeah, me too. I was like the mechanized the mechanized burned skeleton starts moving. I'm like, oh god. There's a like it's yeah, they you know they blow them up, and an even worse form comes out of the fire. It's like it's it's fantastic, right?

SPEAKER_00 19:40

And he has like the uh the electronic hands, like metal hands with the little claws. I'm like, fuck, man, they really like built that all. Yeah. So I wanted to talk quickly about some notes on the test screening. So initially, they screened a two-hour rough cut of the film, and audiences gave it negative reviews, citing it was excessively humorous and did not fit the serious tone of the film. Subsequently, Kirschhner Mancini, who was brought back, cut out 25 minutes of the film to reduce the amount of time Chucky was on screen, something Kirschhner had advocated for during production to build suspense in a similar fashion to Jaws or Alien. Holland, who had repeatedly clashed with Kirschhner over Chucky's amount of time on screen and the film's tone during shooting, objected to the cuts and left production again. Wow, that's a second time. Second time it took off. Yeah. Uh it was later recut with Mancini coming back in to help re-edit. So initially, there was too much Chucky and too many jokes, so they actually had to scale back on that in order to give us more of a serious horror film. All right. Are you ready to get into the Chucky doll of it all?

SPEAKER_01 21:04

Yes. You've been waiting to say that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:18

Okay. We open straight out the gate with some dramatic music introducing us to a police chase. A police officer played by Chris Sarandon from Fright Knight Fame is chasing down the infamous Strangler, Charles Lee Ray. They're exchanging some unfriendly fire as the Strangler played by our dear Brad Doriff flees into our department store. We we immediately see a stack of good guy dolls. Strangler here is played by none other than Brad Dorif. So, a quick note here This character was almost played by John Lithgow.

SPEAKER_01 21:55

Which is kind of nuts. I think I saw there's a few considerations. I think it was the Is some this the this was uh one thing I looked up and I saw this when looking up um I don't know if you're gonna go into the comparison of of what the good guy doll looks like, but no I looked up uh and apparently also I don't know how in depth this is, but I saw John Lithgow, Gary Oldman, and maybe Brian, was it Brian Cox um that were considered to play this part? Do you know what's crazy?

SPEAKER_00 22:29

Like I feel like some people probably like I would love to know the temperature at the time of like what um doing a movie like this would do for your career. But like Brad Dureth, based on this movie, he was actually very I'm gonna go into like you know, him getting the role and things like that later, but he really was a hot commodity at the time and he did this film. But like imagine agreeing to do this and then spawning like this crazy ass like career for the rest of your life. Like he's still he was in the the TV show, which just ended. That's like 40 years of content and you know.

SPEAKER_01 23:07

And not only that, for for our video gamers out there, uh Chucky is voiced by him in the popular video game Dead by Daylight, and he only uh he was still he's still voicing him up to a couple years ago. Jeez, yeah, you're you're always bringing the video game knowledge.

SPEAKER_00 23:23

I just never could get into them, Andrew. Oh gosh.

SPEAKER_01 23:27

But one thing quick here, uh what I like about this opening scene here, the chase. I'm I don't know how much we're gonna say here, but I just want to say that I found it kind of funny the cop just throws his coat away immediately on the street. Yeah. And also Chris Serenan's character, the the cop, he like removes his gloves two separate times. I thought it was kind of funny. Oh, see that. Like he his gloves are off when he's firing outside the store, and then inside the store here he uses his teeth to pull the get the gloves off again. Sorry it is. Maybe he had gloves on, gloves on, gloves. Maybe I think it was it is looks like a really cold Chicago winter.

SPEAKER_00 24:04

Did you notice that Chicago has a population of zero? What? What? Like in this movie, there's so many people. Oh, there's no yeah, there's no one in the streets.

SPEAKER_01 24:14

There's yeah, that's so true.

SPEAKER_00 24:16

I I just yeah, that's so funny. Wait, in all in all, uh, in all fairness, though, like I live in a really large city which is actually has the same population or a little bit larger. And there are times when I'm walking down the street and there is zero human on the street. So I'm trying to defend, but come on, man. Okay. So the police officer manages to hit Ray, seeming to close in on him in the depths of the department store. He staggers through the store, mumbling, I gotta get somebody. I gotta get somebody. But there ain't no humans around.

SPEAKER_01 24:52

And uh, I'll just jump in here really quick as we're we're going along here. I just two shots I want to draw our attention to. I really, really liked the film's overlay of Chucky over the boxes of good guys. Um, I thought it was cool. And also, if you look up Hasbro's My Buddy Doll, um I read I then read that possibly this doll was inspired by the aesthetic of that doll, which also wore coveralls.

SPEAKER_00 25:21

Fun fact, this was called Buddy until they realized they couldn't do that.

SPEAKER_01 25:26

Really? Yeah. Oh, that's awesome. Um, and then I also like a very on-the-nose shot. You we get a good shot of Charles Z. Ray, Brad Durriff next to a unboxed Chucky doll, a good guy doll, uh, obviously on the nose, foreboding or foreshadowing of what's gonna come. I I love that.

SPEAKER_00 25:45

But I love I love that he's stumbling around and because he wants to, you know, this is foreshadowing the Dampala ritual. So he pulls one of the good guy dolls out of the case and he begins to perform the ritual, transferring his evil soul into the doll and blowing up the department store, sending Chris Sarandon across the room, blowing out the windows in this very dramatic uh transference of energy into the doll. And I kind of forgot, I feel like they do a couple of different like action sequences in this film that involve crazy pyrotechnics.

SPEAKER_01 26:26

Yeah, there's this one, and we get to Eddie's house later, and uh the explosion both explosions are huge.

SPEAKER_00 26:34

But this one I I guess I'm I guess that's just some pretty powerful voodoo, eh?

SPEAKER_01 26:42

Yeah, that's one powerful lightning bolt to blow up an entire store. That's insane. How did it not just kill him and Chucky?

unknown 26:51

I I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 26:53

I don't know. We gotta just move on, we gotta move forward with our lives. Yeah. So I kind of forgot like how quickly this happens because full disclosure, like, I don't think I've watched it since I was like like 12. And um, so the police officer approaches the ruins and he finds Ray dead. But is this the end of the story? Do you like my dramatic like script? I think it's I think it's really good. All right. All right. We cut to a young boy, Andy Barkley, making what I can only consider to be the world's most disgusting breakfast.

SPEAKER_01 27:29

That's so funny. I remarked upon the same thing. Like the worst breakfast you've ever seen. And spilling things in a way that bothered me, watching it through it. I'm watching it on the screen, and it's really bothering me how he's spilling everywhere. Like it's it's like a splinter in my brain, I can't pull out. I just, ugh.

SPEAKER_00 27:48

Also, he knows that you don't put like a cup of butter on a piece of toast. Come on. I know he's six, but yeah. Anyway, I think this is supposed to meant for us to like endear to him, which I think he instantly got my uh attention. He's adorable. So he's like preparing the feast. He diverts his attention to the television where we see there's a new good guy doll on the scene, complete with its own catchphrase. I'm Oscar, and I'm your friend till the end. It's Andy's birthday, and as he peers over to a banquet, he notices a giant present for him, which I'm assuming he thinks is a good guy doll.

SPEAKER_01 28:28

And he's about to get duped in the worst way possible. Like big time. Karen, come on.

SPEAKER_00 28:36

Yeah. So we we do learn the breakfast is for his mom, played by Catherine Hicks, and he's eager to wake her up so he can open his gifts, especially the big box. He goes, like I would straight for it. And he discovers that not only is it not a good guy doll, but some secondhand clothing. Like, what the fuck?

SPEAKER_01 28:58

Yeah, like this is like I'm sorry, but this is like this what I'm saying about Karen. Like, she's gotta be dumb or a numpty or something because you make the biggest box and you just put clothes that only fit in like one third of the box. She literally pulls them up the one corner of the box, like, oh, the rest of the box is just empty, Andy. Oops.

SPEAKER_00 29:22

And she holds up like this shitty like jean jacket or something. Aren't you excited at the age of six for these clothes? And then she's like, Well, I don't think they fit, but we'll make them fit. The worst gift. Oh my lord. But she does kind of the error of her ways. I know she wants some toys. I know you want that thing, good guy doll. So, what I'm gonna do is put secondhand clothing in the exact same same size box. Oh, what a no, I'm just kidding. Okay. So we cut to another department store, not the same one, where Karen works as a perfume counter attendant. Her friend Maggie, who's wild by the way, who works in shoes, races up to her to inform her there's a good guy peddler out back, and she can get a good guy doll for cheap. Now, I want to unpack this because I want to go with the flow here, but I do think it's like, is it common to see a toy pedlar in the alleyway? And what is the friend doing in the alleyway? But maybe she was like having a smoke?

SPEAKER_01 30:40

Yeah, I also like I I don't want to, I don't want to the next scene here. I just just to go back really quick, just to kind of add insult to injury on the gifts, is that she's like, You want some toys? And then the next gift is a good guy's tool set, like just to say, I didn't get you the doll, but here's his tool set, which aren't really toys anyway, they're just like little tools. I didn't even notice that. It's just so funny because, like, it's like I wanted a good guy doll to go along with it. Yeah, it's just anyways, just funny. I thought it was really funny.

SPEAKER_00 31:11

This whole alleyway scene is really like a stroke of luck for Karen, right? So she immediately recognizes it is indeed a real good guy doll. She agrees to buy it for 50 bucks. She pays the peddler, and her friend demands to know if it's stolen. But it's like, did you see the state of this gentleman? Like, I don't think he like I don't think he got it off eBay. No. So she ends up getting the good guy doll and kind of saves the day for her her little tyke. So we do learn that Karen has to stay late that night to cover for another employee, but that Maggie will babysit for her. And so Karen returns home. She gives Andy the best birthday present ever, a good guy doll. We cut to Maggie and Andy enjoying a quiet night in as Andy bonds with his new doll. As bedtime approaches, Andy mentions Chucky wants to watch the nine o'clock news. I don't know, I just think it's great. Can I can I go back a couple steps here? Because there are there's a scene in this movie, okay. At the very beginning, when he's making breakfast, he has the news on the television and it alerts the audience to the situation with Charles Z. Ray. And now when he's playing on the floor with his toys before he's asked to go to bed, it's on again. So I just find it odd that there's like this child in the house, and like the only media he's consuming is news.

SPEAKER_01 32:52

Yeah, it's like the local like hot news, like, oh, the serial killer was was caught and his accomplice is on the loose still, and like it's like Andy, like that's that's a that's a that's like borderline abusive, anyway.

SPEAKER_00 33:07

So Chucky like really wants to watch the news because he really wants to he wants to know what's up with Eddie, and we'll get into that in a sec. So Maggie swiftly denies this request and she whisks the two off to bed. Did you notice how much she bangs Chucky around, like on the table, the wall, the floor? And goes like, girl, you're pissed, you're signing your own death warrant, honey.

SPEAKER_01 33:31

It's funny because I just like she drags the Chucky doll with like by a limb and just smacks him off every possible object, known to man. And like, I even if that doll wasn't possessed with the spirit of a steel killer, I would not do that. Like, oh, it's my it's my this little kid's doll that he probably really likes. Like, I should probably carry it and like treat it with respect. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 33:51

No, it's true, and it's also like it's a very like sophisticated doll that has like mechanisms, right? Like it's talking, it's like it's moving, and she's just like so irreverent. And I almost thought to myself, like, does she deserve to die for this?

SPEAKER_01 34:06

It's a very like the bar of deserving to die in movies is a skewed one, but I would say we're not quite there yet.

SPEAKER_00 34:14

Oh, I would have thought you were gonna be on board. So just as Andy brushes his teeth, the TV turns on suddenly, airing the nine o'clock news. And seated right in front of it is Chucky. So this is where Chucky learns his ex-partner Eddie escapes from prison, which will become important later. Now, Maggie, pissed as ever, immediately blames this on Andy, letting him know when she says something, she means it. Now, obviously, Andy protests this, and this is where the ambiguity comes in. Like, is it Andy? I think we know it's not, but but it does call back to Mancini's original script, where there's a bit more mystery around who's doing these things. I have a question for you. They in this movie, when he's walking around the apartment, we see the view from Chucky's uh vantage point, like through his eyes. What is the purpose of that view when the audience knows it's Chucky and not Andy?

SPEAKER_01 35:30

I I just think this is just good. Like, I'm not saying this is the primary purpose, but this is good budget-saving camera work where we can really start to get in the perspective that this doll is doing things on its own and moving about the house very quickly. Like he's really nimble and he's quick. Um, so I think it I think it really helps establish that he's he's like this sneaky, quick little killer in a doll.

SPEAKER_00 35:59

I I think it's I think it's effective too. Like I do think it's like scary. Yeah, yeah, I really like it.

SPEAKER_01 36:04

Yeah, and I think it helps build, I think it helps build tension that something's about to happen. But there's no question that like this isn't supposed to be like is he or isn't he, right? No, no. Like I I think but I think he's actively I could be wrong here, but I'm pretty sure he's actively brushing his teeth in between the like a couple of those scenes there, the camera cuts to the nine o'clock news being on.

SPEAKER_00 36:27

Yeah. So she kisses Andy goodnight, and as she closes the door, we close in on Chucky. So some time passes, and Maggie curls up to a good book. And we see Andy's door slowly open, and from the perspective of someone short, as we mentioned, we see a mysterious figure scamper through the apartment. Maggie becomes suspicious something strange is happening and rises to investigate the strange noise. What is it? Maggie approaches the foyer and notices a chair has been moved in front of the doorway. Why did he do this?

SPEAKER_01 37:13

I noticed that too. And I think the only thing I can think of is maybe a distraction technique, but he already distracts her later. Like, I don't really know.

SPEAKER_00 37:23

I guess like is he worried that she would like try and run for the doorway in some conflict and then like I don't I didn't I didn't understand this, but I mean not a huge point, but yeah, it makes a point that he's he's put the chair and he's unbolted the door um because she rebolts the door.

SPEAKER_01 37:44

Yeah. So I don't like I don't know if like we're supposed to think that for a second, oh maybe he left or something. I don't know. Like, I don't know. It's a weird, it is a strange like focus shot of the camera that's that doesn't end up paying off in terms of like what happens next.

SPEAKER_00 38:01

But for all our European fans, if you know why, let us know. We have listeners in Europe. Just the European ones, though. Just the European one, yeah. If you're in Germany, okay. Hearing a noise in the kitchen, she approaches cautiously, assuring herself nothing is wrong, and that she's scaring herself half to death. Just as she calms down, she turns around and receives a fucking hammer to the head, which sends her crashing through the kitchen window and to her death down below.

SPEAKER_01 38:38

And of course, this is the hammer from that good guy's tool set that uh Andy got for his birthday. Wait, this is a real hammer? It's like a toy, it's like it must be a real metal hammer, but it's a it's a it's a small one.

SPEAKER_00 38:54

Did you notice that there are several times in this film where Chucky seems a lot stronger than maybe a doll would be?

SPEAKER_01 39:03

Yes, like I actually debated this or discussed this with like a couple of friends. Um, and I did. I was like, I because I was playing, we were playing the video game, and I was like, man, like like Chucky, I wonder what his strength level is like. Like, because we I watched the movie recently, and he's clearly quick in the doll form. He's stronger than a doll can be, but he's definitely not as strong as even a full-grown woman, um, or like a full-grown adult. So um I don't really know what it how strong he is, but this hammer blows enough to not only send her flying backwards, but to crash through wooden framing um outside.

SPEAKER_00 39:47

This is where I again for like the child's play Puris. Uh, I I was like, oh, I'm hesitant to like comment on her death, but then at the same time, I'm like, at first I didn't even realize he was on the counter. I was like, does he have like a good guy jet pack? Like I didn't know, like, I didn't know how he was at like eye level with her at all, like during that whole scene. I was like, how is this happening?

SPEAKER_01 40:10

And also, this is uh just a fun shot of a you can clearly see it's a stunt woman who's who actually turns her body to brace for the impact into the uh obviously there's a mat or something there for her, but it's it's a great fall.

SPEAKER_00 40:23

It's a fucking epic fall. Also, on Rewatch, this is why Rewatch is so vital to me in my new my new plan for the podcast. She crashes into a car below, like the truck, and she just destroys it. And I loved the practical effects in that scene. I thought it was awesome.

SPEAKER_01 40:42

Yeah, I think everything from the fall from her, like I said, everything from her fall to the the impact is all so good.

SPEAKER_00 40:50

So we take a moment of silence for our beloved Maggie. Karen takes a bus home, and when she exits the bus, she notices all of the police and kind of like the panic surrounding her house, and she learns that her apartment is filled with cops. Lo and behold, she locates Andy, who's sitting with the exact same police officer who killed Charles Lee Ray. He divulges to her that Maggie is dead and fell from her kitchen window. Got any idea what these are, he says to her, motioning to some very small footprints. And again, we have the ambiguous nature of Andy's involvement in the crime, which they play a lot on in this film. It makes me uncomfortable because it casts doubt on him in the eyes of the other characters. And we actually take this a step further, and Detective Norris discovers that Andy's shoes match the shoes on the countertop.

SPEAKER_01 41:58

Yeah, the uh he's got a pair of good guy sneakers or slippers on.

SPEAKER_00 42:03

Because at first Karen's like, well, those prints and the flower on the counter don't match any of Andy's shoes. And this is where, like I said, like it would have been interesting for him to like check the sizes because obviously Andy's feet are gonna be bigger than Chucky's, I'm assuming. Yeah, I would assume so. But maybe not. But again, they they kind of like deliver this like ambiguous nature of like, did he or didn't he? And obviously, if you're like in this scene, no one's thinking the doll is responsible for this. Like, who would buy that?

SPEAKER_01 42:39

Yeah, that's the thing, right? I think I think regardless of what we know as the audience, you have to really picture this from this nonchalant detective. Um that there was only two people in the apartment at the time, right? Aunt Maggie and the kid. So But like But he also Detective Mindorist also doesn't, I also don't believe at the time he really was sold on the fact that Andy did it.

SPEAKER_00 43:08

No, I don't think so. And later in the movie, he actually sort of comes around to the idea that like this possession thing, like there's I'll I'll get into it later, but there is a distinct moment where he questions his own beliefs right before he has that vehicle run-in with Chucky. Yeah. And I I find that really interesting because I think if you're hunting Charles Lee Ray, you must have some knowledge of his voodooism, right?

SPEAKER_01 43:38

Yeah, I you know his background for sure. Like the bitch be liking voodoo! Someone's funny here, it's interesting. Like, Karen's like, you gotta go. And like he's with like obviously a major crimes detective, all the police, and they just vacate a crime scene that would definitely have been held for like a longer period of time while they invested someone's murder. He's like, All right, let's go. Guys.

SPEAKER_00 44:04

Um uh so just going back just a sec, so just as Detective Norris is about to leave, Andy has something to tell him. He quite excitedly tells him, I know who is on the kitchen counter. Chucky. His mom immediately dismisses this as nuts. But the detective seems interested. And later that night, Karen discovers Andy talking to his new friend Chucky and asks him what Chucky's been saying. She learns his real name is Charles Lee Ray. Andy assures Karen that Chucky's alive. And Karen can't really cope with this, telling him to stop it. She kisses him goodnight and exits the room.

SPEAKER_01 44:53

But not before she questions uh Andy and says, like, what else has he been saying to you? And in the most like kid way of like kids say the darnedest things, he says, Aunt Maggie was a real bitch and got what she deserved. I just died laughing at that part.

SPEAKER_00 45:15

Oh my god. On two watches, I neglected to write that for some reason, even though it's comedy gold.

SPEAKER_01 45:22

And then, like, she andy sees this like that's such a funny, like, chucky thing to say. And but delivered by this by Andy, it's so funny because he says it so innocently, and but then he backs down here. So, like, obviously, Karen's really upset by this, and Andy having some like insight, I guess, yes, notices that she's really upset by this, and then decides to play dumb. It's like, you're right, mom. Like, you know, it's just he's not real. Like, he I think she says something like that. Like, it's basically he's just been making it up.

SPEAKER_00 45:56

You know, I don't want to go too deeply into like the psychological distress of like this child, but the stuff that Chucky is saying to him behind closed doors and how he's treating him is pretty disgusting. And I feel terrible for Andy.

SPEAKER_01 46:15

I actually wasn't gonna say this, but that what you just said is so astute to this next point here because Chucky before before that funny line, Chucky tells Andy that his dad sent him down to heaven from heaven to play with him. Like that's me that's real messed up.

SPEAKER_00 46:37

It is really messed up. But I also think the the thing I find most alarming about this, and you kind of mentioned it, is when he plays dumb, like when you you when you said like he kind of gains insight and he plays dumb, I felt really horrible because I felt like this kid who is actually being manipulated by this stall and this serial killer has to then protest to his mother that it you know it is him, it's not it's not Chucky. He was making it up. It's like to put the kid in this predicament, like I mean, and it and it takes like a level of like education and and insight at that age to be able to like understand what's going on in that situation. I just feel like terrible for him. Like, kids just need to be kids, y'all.

SPEAKER_01 47:23

Yeah, this is a film, but it's really it's it's really sweet he's taking one for the team for his mom, like to stop stressing her out. And for fucking Chucky, yeah, yeah, that's little shit.

SPEAKER_00 47:34

Yeah, okay, damn it. Do you know what's funny? I was gonna mention this later on uh in the podcast, but when I was 15, actually, okay, I'm gonna save this okay because it's just funny. Okay, so we catch up with Andy at school as he plays a little hookie, taking the train into the city, complete with his pal Chucky. He heads into what I can only call the bad part of town, making his way to an abandoned house. We again enter the perspective of the doll as it quickly approaches the house and enters. We see some obligatory rats and some dirty dishes. We finally, for the first time in the film, see Chucky's hand open an oven door, turning off the pilot light and cranking up the gas. There is a man in the house, Eddie, his old partner. And as he descends the staircase, he begins to shoot. And as he does this, he explodes the entire house. So we have a second, less slashery victim of Chucky's.

SPEAKER_01 48:44

Yo, we had a fantastic explosion. I just find this like I understand movies do this with with uh jumpy characters, they'll like round the corner and fire at nothing. Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. I'm like, what is he doing? So, like, I understand that to a point where they they're trying to convey, hey, this guy's really jumpy, but it's like broad daylight out, um, and he just fires two shots. Revolvers got five or six shots. I'd be like, okay, I don't waste bullets on nothing. But I guess the scene that was like kind of weird, like we don't really know why he shot. Like, they have a the camera where it shows him opening the door, he's clearly focused on something and pulls the trigger and just immediately blows up and dies. Like, Eddie, you stupid asshole.

SPEAKER_00 49:30

I think he is like wrought with paranoia. And I think anyone in that position who's like running from the law, like, I mean, he's probably so squirrely and like pent up that I I did think of that when I was watching the movie, but now that we're talking about it, I'm like, I maybe he just is like fuck, dude. Like, leave me alone, you know. Yeah, I just sound like Chucky there. So Andy searching for Chucky outside is unharmed during the explosion. So that's explosion number two and victim number two. So we cut to the police station where a detective begins to question Andy about Maggie's death. Karen, hovering close to her son, tells him to stop making stuff up about Chucky, or they'll take Andy away from her. He freaks out, shaking Chucky violently, demanding he tell him the truth. But as Chucky quips a good guy doll catchphrase, Andy delivers a blow to his stomach. Andy is pissed that Chucky won't say a word.

SPEAKER_01 50:42

He's a little gaslighter, eh? Yeah, he's he's he can just mime being a obviously a regular doll. So you can just play, you just let Andy take the fall for his insanity.

SPEAKER_00 50:55

Yeah, exactly. Until things heat up in a little while and we learn the truth. Not too long after. Okay, I'll stop that. So I think at this point, Karen is freaked. She's freaked out. She is assuming that her son is guilty. She's back at home. She sits Chucky down and demands that he say something, damn it. She grabs the box Chucky came in, and as she lifts it up, the batteries fall out. I fucking loved this scene.

SPEAKER_01 51:36

Yeah, that's like the she's starting a clue in here.

SPEAKER_00 51:40

But is she? I think it's just her questioning her fucking sanity.

SPEAKER_01 51:46

No, I think I think she very much is like, okay, something's up. Like this Chuck, this Chucky doll's not normal.

SPEAKER_00 51:56

So she immediately turns to Chucky and she starts to slowly approach. So I think you're right. She she she kind of she she's suspicious at this point. She picks him up and flips him over, discovering he has no batteries. Oh, I love it.

SPEAKER_01 52:15

Yeah, he's been somehow operating without them.

SPEAKER_00 52:18

Like, what a fucking cool scene. That's so clever to me. Yeah, that's great. So she begins to shake him, demanding he start talking, or she'll throw him in the fire. Instead of one of his charming catchphrases, his face animates, and the real Chucky erupts, striking her, cursing at her, and finally biting her. So the cat's out of the bag, and we're finally introduced to the voodoo manifestation of Charles Lee Ray.

SPEAKER_01 52:56

Yeah, it's just this is a cool scene. This is the first time in the film where we get to see the face get all contorted to make his actual facial expressions.

SPEAKER_00 53:05

And I will get into like how they accomplished that in a second, but how surreal would it be to discover a talking killer doll?

SPEAKER_01 53:16

Uh yeah, that would be mind-blowing, of course. I would be like, what the fuck? Uh and I also too this speaks to the film, like this the movie has been really effective up to this point at making Chucky a threat and scary without ever having to animate him. And I think that's a really good accomplishment of this movie.

SPEAKER_00 53:36

I also love like I I always go back to this like Mancini's initial or original intention was to keep it ambiguous, and the movie has done a fantastic job of keeping it ambiguous. And an example of that is we never see Chucky talk to Andy, right? Like we hear Andy talking to Chucky, we there's a whole bunch of scenes like that, and I really appreciate that about this movie because at this point in the film, they crank the fucking heat up to like 11, and it's just Chucky, Chucky, Chucky, Chucky.

SPEAKER_01 54:05

Yeah, it's full seam ahead at this point. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 54:07

After this point. So I wanted to take a research break, Andrew, if you'll come along with me on the ride. So initially, the voice of Chucky's doll form was intended to be a simple electronic overlay similar to ordinary toys with sound chips. When this was deemed infeasible, John Franklin was hired to record the dialogue when Doriff was initially unavailable because of his involvement in Mississippi burning. After tons of negative test screenings with an electronic, like, my name is Jackie, like that kind of thing. Holland decided to recast the role only to find Doriff was still unavailable due to his involvement in spontaneous combustion. So Brad Dorf was a really busy actor in like 1987. And so later, prior recordings were discarded when Dorf became available for the film and was able to deliver like such an exceptional performance, and audiences really responded to that. So quick research break, and now it is over.

SPEAKER_01 55:17

I love his voice. Oh my god, me too. His his voice he uses for Chucky is just so good. It's so iconic.

SPEAKER_00 55:25

It's so iconic. You know, yesterday I watched um Bride of Chucky because I was like in this like real Chucky movie. Oh, nice. And I actually like what a departure from like child's play, like first of all. But but I actually thought, like, I'm like, is this a near-perfect film?

SPEAKER_01 55:38

Like I I have to I think I might go in a Chucky like Spree after this movie and watch the rest of them. Because I think I think I might have seen Bride in passing on television as a kid. I don't think I've ever sat down and watched a single full-length sequel yet. So what? Yeah, I don't think I don't think I have. When you said seven films, like there's no way that's that's make you're making this up.

unknown 56:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 56:04

Use fib for the podcast.

SPEAKER_00 56:06

There's yeah, there's kind of like there's like the original three, which are a little bit more like serious horror film like this one, and then there are like the Bride of Chucky movies that came out, which definitely are like comedic punches. And then there is like the Fiona Jennifer Tilly, right? That's her awesome. Jennifer Tilly, yeah, exactly. Yeah, and she fucking she murders that role. She's yeah, she's so good. Yeah, so there's a little bit more uh a play here where she drops Chucky. Um, there's a little tussle here where like she boots him across the room. I always appreciate when they realize that Chucky is a fucking doll and just kick him. Like he, in my opinion, is not very threatening.

SPEAKER_01 56:50

I like this movie too because like this is the classic reversal of the trope. Like there's a big trope in a lot of movies, like Terminator or like superhero movies, where like a big strong villain who could crush a human skull or crush a rib cage gets a hold of the lesser strong protagonist, right? Maybe it's a a regular human or something. Rather than crush them, they just throw them all the time. And this is what happens a lot in this film, it's like they grab Chucky, clearly have control of him, and they should probably like kill him, and they just throw him across the room, and it's always funny, it's always so good.

SPEAKER_00 57:23

So, but like this is the thing going back to like the purest child's play. Like, I I don't even want to say it's funny, but it's kind of like it's a doll. Like, it is kind of funny.

SPEAKER_01 57:36

When I say funny, like I don't it's this doesn't it's not funny the way it like takes me into the film for me. This is a pr a really good blend of horror funny. Where I just I think I think just I think it's for it, it's at the end of the day, it's a doll, it's funny. Like he goes flying, and a lot sometimes he makes noises just like his later on when he's freaking in the fireplace, the the voice work that that Brad Durf puts in of his yells and screams is so awesome. Like, and when he goes flying sometimes, oh my god, so good.

SPEAKER_00 58:12

I forgot to mention this, so I don't know why I didn't write this down, but if we take a step back here, when Karen discovers Chucky is real, he calls her a slut and a bitch. Oh, his name calling is the like he's some of the best. Rude, like a misogynist.

SPEAKER_01 58:33

Oh, he's a to he's a total misogynist. His language throughout, I think that's one thing about him. He's definitely his language throughout this film. And I said I haven't seen all the full-length sequels, but I've heard his quips in other movies, and he's definitely not one for the girls. Like he calls her a slut, just for no reason.

SPEAKER_00 58:52

There's no reason, like he's just a serial killer.

SPEAKER_01 58:54

How does he know? He's a serial killer dipshit, right?

SPEAKER_00 58:57

So yeah. Okay, so Karen rushes out of the apartment, chasing down the elevator as it descends the stairwell, Chucky in tow, and she rushes out onto the street and realized Chucky has indeed escaped. So there you go. So we do cut to Karen locating Detective Norris, frantically explaining to him Andy's been right all along, and that Chucky's been speaking, and she has the batteries to prove it. What are you talking about? He says. Karen describes what happened back at the apartment, but unfortunately, Detective Norris just doesn't believe her. Even when she exposes her bite marks, he still casts doubt. She rushes off saying she'll find him herself and she'll start with the toy peddler, damn it. I think damn it.

SPEAKER_01 59:55

I think too, I think I always think of these scenes where a victim tries to present the skeptical characters with overwhelming evidence to the contrary of their belief system. But that's the thing is like if you live in a world where you have to come to terms with the fact that there's living dolls that can kill you, I think that would you'd have to like let your entire worldview come crashing down to accept that. So this is why like I always sometimes like, why wouldn't you believe her? Like, she's so like there's so we but we've also seen what they've seen, right? Yeah, so I always put myself in the shoes of these characters. I'm like, I wouldn't believe her either. Like I wouldn't, like I'd be like, okay, Karen, like you obviously believe something happened. I think you know something, but I don't believe that a dog came to life. I'm sorry. What would you make of the bite mark? That's the thing. I don't know. I I'd be like, did she like maybe her son might be taken away by CAS something, you know, children's services. Maybe she's like found something to make a bite mark to like make me believe her. I don't know. I don't I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:00

Yeah, actually, you're making me come around the idea that like, I guess she's she could be just making this up because she wants her son back so bad that she's willing to like do. Yeah, that that's actually an interesting take that I honestly didn't think of. So Karen heads into the belly of the beast, the bad part of town. She locates the peddler. She does go, she I just on second watch, she goes up to this one, I'm assuming like unhoused man, and she gestures like she's trying to like indicate to him like she's looking for the toy guy. And she goes, like, no teeth with her hands. And it's like, how many of those people probably unfortunately don't have like it was just kind of funny that she's going around like trying to know, I just thought that was like funny. So she nearly gets assaulted before being saved by Norris. And they learn the doll was stolen from the exact same department store where Charles Lee Ray died. And it's here that I notice that Detective Norris kind of for a second look up into the sky and go, oh, like, oh, you know, it's just a moment, and I noticed that on second watch. I was like, I was like, oh, he does really like start to go, like, oh, that is odd. Yes. He makes a note of it mentally. Yeah. So Karen becomes convinced Charles Z. Ray has possessed the body of the good guy doll, but Detective Norris remains skeptical.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:40

I just want to jump in here too. I just found her some of her dialogue a little, a little interesting, or I guess odd. Is like he explains, yeah, like she's like, How do you know that about like Charles Lee Ray being at that um the toy store? He's like, because I killed him, like I shot him, I killed him. And then she's she says to him, Why didn't you tell me that? Like, as if they were like close friends. That like it's like information he should have told her when they first met. It's like, why would he tell you any of this? Like, I just I found it kind of odd. Like, she like she takes his shoulders, like, why wouldn't you tell me that? Like, it's like this isn't your husband, like, this is a guy who's dealt with some criminals who you don't need to know about. Like, yeah, like bad stuff, lady. Yeah, I just thought it was kind of funny. I just thought that that dialogue was a little odd. That's all.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:29

I do have to say though, like her like unwavering pursuit of the truth and her acting is really strong. Yeah, she's awesome. She's like, I loved it. Yeah, even I know way back in the film, like, there's this moment where he lets her know about Maggie's death, and she does have a her reaction heading toward the window is just really, really good, good, good acting. I I thought it was awesome. I should have mentioned it back when, but I just didn't. That's okay, we're here now. We cut to Naysayer, Detective Norris, leaving the police station to return home. But just as he settles in for a cigarette, Chucky emerges from the back seat, wrapping a wire around his neck. The two begin a power struggle as Norris tears a piece of Chucky's cheek off, disarming the killer doll momentarily before Chucky continues his onslaught, poking a butcher knife through the driver's seat, narrowly missing his target. They start to play footsies with the gas pedal, causing the vehicle to capsize. Norris, still alive, begins shooting at Chucky as the latter encircles the vehicle, finally sending a bullet through the doll's chest and becoming a believer. And it's just amazing. Yeah, this was a very chaotic. Like, I tried to condense this, but like a lot happened here between these two.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:01

Like, yeah, I like I love the I first I before the car rolls over. Um, I love when Chucky starts stabbing the knife through the seat. Um, even watching this, I was like, oh man, oh god, that would suck so bad. That would suck so bad. Oh god, oh god. I was like, I was like, he it's like the knife's like like by his thigh, his ass. I'm just like, oh my god, fuck please, please don't sit down on that knife. Like, I'm just I'm just like driving the car, like he's doing a good job dodging the knife. I was like, oh god, that's so tense. I love that scene. Yeah, I do agree with you.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:33

Like when the knife got close to his like his penis, I literally was like, fuck. Like it like I think that this scene to me is a little bit of a dance. Like, Chucky really tries to like fuck this guy up and he gets shot in the chest. And I just thought it was awesome.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:48

I also love too. Well, I've always liked this. He does it in Eddie's house. I get a real big kick out of Chucky skittering around and giggling. Yeah, like it's so I think it's So great. It's just so it's almost like too cute. Yeah, in like a weird way, in a sadistic way. But yes, I think I agree. It's it's endearing almost, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:12

Like and he does like a little like he plays with his food in this scene. Like he goes around the vehicle and he scratches the knife. Again, very nightmare in Elm Street. Like very like. I also find two, like insuspenseful.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:28

Well, earlier when he said, like, Mike's the most like nonchalant accepting, like of his reality detective ever, is like in the car and after this, he has no freakout scene where he's like, what the hell? There's a he's just like, this is life now. Like, let's deal with this. Like, there's a fucking real doll animatronically trying to kill me.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:49

Uh, let's just deal with it. I wonder if that's like a police mentality where you're like, I've just seen so much shit, and this is just like another thing.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:58

No, no, there's not a single scene where like he takes a break, like, holy shit, what the hell just happened to me? It's like, yep, I was in a car crash. I just got in a foot and you know, like a cat and mouse dance with a freaking doll, like, and blew him away. And the doll goes flying again. There's another scene where I just love how he goes flying. I don't know why. I will always find this funny. Just Chucky's body, uh just flies away.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:22

I will. There's a lot to do with Chucky's anatomy that we'll get into later, but this uh this really hurt him. So yeah. Okay, so we we cut to Karen, who's discovered Charles Lee Ray's old digs. It's covered in ritual depictions in voodoo. Before she can settle in, Norris appears behind her, informing her Chucky may be looking for a man named John. We enter John's house where an injured Chucky confronts John about his injured body, and we learn Chucky is becoming more human despite being in the doll. Now, Andrew, I'd like to take yet another little research break if you will come along with me. And I'm here, I'm long for the ride. Okay, good. So this is about Chucky's movement. So Chucky was controlled by a team of nine different puppeteers, led by Brock Winkless, who moved Chucky's mouth via radio control wearing a rig that captured his mouth movement. The others were in charge of operating the doll's head, face, and limbs. So for scenes where Chucky had to move around in wide shots, a little person actor in a life-size costume, Ed Gale, would portray Chucky in scenes where the character is walking, the props on set enlarged to fit the size of the actor.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:46

That's clever. I did not know that. That's really cool.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:50

Throughout the film, Chucky transitions from appearing as a normal toy to appearing more human with his hairline receding throughout the film. The film created multiple Chucky animatronics, such as a flailing tantrum Chucky, a walking, a walking Chucky, and a stationary Chucky. Gail claims that the filmmakers were not sure how well the animatronics would work and shot most scenes with both him and the puppets. We learn that John is a good guy, proclaiming Chucky's everything he taught him for evil, and he has to be stopped. As John picks up the phone, Chucky threatens to annihilate him with a voodoo doll unless he tells him how he can reverse this curse. Chucky learns he must transfer his soul into the first human being he revealed his true self to, i.e., Andy. Chucky, seemingly excited, finishes off John by stabbing through the heart of the voodoo doll.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:00

Yeah, this that was uh really cool death. Like I like how he snaps the leg of the voodoo doll.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:05

Oh, I loved it.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:06

That was really cool. The um uh the immediate like like effects on on John, just him falling over, screaming in pain. That was great. And also, this is a great scene for the payoff at the beginning of the film because I think up until this point, um, like, why does this random steel killer know some weird ancient language chant to possess a doll? Right? Like, we're we have to accept that until we know about more of this voodoo stuff. Um, but it's a very unique kind of out there backstory, but then we get this scene that ties that together, and I like that a lot.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:45

I like that a lot too. I thought it was cool. I personally, I don't think I needed to know about the backstory, but I think we needed to understand how Chucky can get out of this situation, and I think this was just like a smooth, quick way of letting us know that, and we don't waste a lot of time.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:05

No, this is a uh this is what I call like I think this is like needed exposition to let the character know how he gets out of his predicament. I think it's great.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:15

It's basically an expository dump. I don't think you know what's funny in Bride of Chucky, they actually just have a book called Voodoo for Dummies, and that's how she learns Dumbala.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:27

Is that gonna be real right now?

SPEAKER_00 1:11:29

Yeah, seriously.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:30

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:31

So I was like, well, they didn't even need to explain it. They were just like, okay. That's so funny. So Karen and Norris discover John and learn of Chucky's plan to transfer his soul to Andy. Can I ask you a quick question here? So I was thinking about this and like I didn't want to belabor this, but essentially, Detective Norris and Karen both know about Chucky, but they don't go to Andy right away.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:00

Yeah, they're kind of okay though for the fact that he's like at this hospital or wherever he is, and I feel like I'd be frantically making trees by my side.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:12

Yeah, that was the only kind of to me a bit of a plot hole. Like, maybe I I can't imagine she thinks he's being treated well there. I can't imagine like there are just a lot of like I guess things I think they should do, or this could also just be happening like so rapid quick that she's like, I'm going to do this and then go straight to Andy. I don't know. I just I just wanted to question that for a second because I thought I found it.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:40

I think it's a good point to make.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:44

So take that. So we're kind of entering our our final act here. So we catch up with Andy at the kids' jailhouse. It's a hostel, but I called it the kids' jailhouse. He notices Chucky ascending a stairwell and alerts one of the doctors who seems not to care at all. Andy begins to cry. And Andrew, listen to this. For that scene, Holland got Vincent, who plays Andy, to cry by telling him that his parents were getting divorced because of him. Oh my god. And although like Holland claimed Vincent knew he was lying, and Vincent also defended Holland as an adult, Kirshner criticized Holland's treatment of Vincent and claimed that it at times bordered on cruelty to children. Oh, that's not good to hear. That's brutal. Yeah, that sucks. But that's why, like, if you watch that movie, if you rewatch that scene, that is like the best child acting you'll ever see because he is bawling his eyes out, and that is real. That's so sad. Like, like, do we need more?

SPEAKER_01 1:13:55

You know what I mean? Like, can I break as a child of divorce that really hit home? Yeah. I'm just kidding. I mean, both of us, fuck.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:07

Okay. Chucky. I wrote this. Chucky is fucking ready to roll. Entering. Entering the hospital and stealing the keys to Andy's cell. I mean, room. As Chucky approaches, that's a little jail joke.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:25

It's definitely a cell. Like it's it's you need keys, that's and you can lock them up. It's a cell.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:31

I mean, if that's reality, that is bleak, but but I don't know. So as Chucky approaches Andy's bed to make quick work of him, he realizes Andy's faked him out with a pillow. The old trick.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:43

Jump in here. I may I may note this. The anim the animatronic work here of Chucky crawling along the bed is so smooth. This is one of the best shots in the movie for seeing Chucky moving in his full body. I thought this, I thought the animatronic work here was so well done. Like he he's so it's it's not jittery. It it's it's it's so smooth and slick the way they did it here.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:10

It's very good. And you know what's funny? Like, if you like again, I watched Bright of Chucky. Uh, there's very little difference uh in evolution between this and that, and I think that goes to show you like again the exceptional work of practical effects, hello, and also like how well they did in this particular film, which I think is cool. And I think it's really cool that you're like, these people are taking like a killer doll movie very fucking seriously, and I like I really appreciate that.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:36

I think too, like you have to though, like these kind of movies, like any kind of concept that on you know, if uh you pitched this to someone face value without going into the details would be ridiculous, you have to go all in. You can't half-ass it, you can't be like, oh yeah, it is kind of stupid, isn't it? Like, you just have to go all in with these kind of concepts. Yeah, agreed.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:58

So Andy and Chucky have a little skirmish in the operating room, and one of the doctors locates Andy, brandishing a scalpel. I know. And he just as he insists Andy calm down, Chucky strikes again, stabbing the doctor's leg. Now, he puts an electric headband on this doctor and he fries his brains. And I notice here he starts to giggle a little. And as I mentioned, this is the Chucky I know. And I loved how much of his personality they included in this film. Like he's getting pure joy from like cooking this dude's head. It's it's fucked up, it's great.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:44

He's like, like he's just so good.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:48

Yeah, that was a little bit more. I don't know what I was doing. Like the Little Mermaid. So I also wrote finally, fucking Karen and Norris arrive at the hospital, and they learn Chucky was here looking for Andy, and that Andy escaped and headed to the one place he'd go if he was ever in trouble. Back home. Of course, Chucky knows this too, and heads straight over to continue his hunt for a new body. Now, I love there's a cute scene here where Chucky is casually riding up the elevator to Andy's, and a couple see him on the floor, and the woman says, What an ugly doll. And as she exits, Chucky goes, Fuck you.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:37

That's so good.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:39

I thought that's so me.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:40

I yeah, I think a lot of us would be like, Fuck you, just told you were ugly. Like, fuck you. Yeah, fuck you, bitch. Yeah, I I love that. I also love too when he gets off the elevator. Um, because of the angle, they get away here with like uh it's obviously a child in like the Chucky like outfit because it's from below, you can't really see his face, you just see his feet move across the gap. Yeah, I I don't know. I just like I like that detail, like the little scene there.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:07

This is uh this is kind of what I wanted to uh talk about. So Chucky realizes the door is locked, and he he this is what I realized on second watch. This is so good. He he basically comes down the chimney and he boots the chimney gate like clear across the room. It's game time. Like he's just pissed. Yeah. And so we're at the final showdown here. So Andy pulls a Jamie Lee and shuts himself into his closet, arming himself with not coat hangers, but a baseball bat. That was a Halloween reference, y'all.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:44

Oh, yeah. She gets a coat hanger.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:47

I knew you wouldn't get that, but no, I uh I appreciate it. People don't realize this, but Andrew's only 18. I mean chaperone on this podcast. He's just a zygot, really. So uh we quickly learn Chucky has entered the apartment and he easily overtakes Andy because he's six, knocking the boy out with his own bat. Chucky wastes zero time as he begins the Dumbala ritual on young Andy, clouds forming in the sky and lightning striking the apartment complex. Just as soon as he starts, Karen and Norris bar jam chock like tossing Chucky to the side like a sack of potatoes. And again, how dangerous is this doll, really? I wrote.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:39

Yeah, Mike, Mike gets a full, like holds him like a little kid who's wriggling in his hands, and like just throws him.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:48

I want okay, this is the story that I want to tell you, and like we could cut this out, but I just thought this was really funny. So when I was 15 years old, I basically I had a couple friends in high school who like went off to this party, but I didn't want to go. So we all smoked weed together with a couple of their friends, like these random guys. And me and these random guys, or like maybe two or three of them, we just like kind of made fast friends. So we spent the entire night being high just talking about ways that we'd kick Chucky. Like, oh, if he attacked us, we would just kick him.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:22

Yeah, I've thought about like I thought of myself fighting Chucky, and I think I would destroy him.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:29

But like, yeah, you know, I think Chucky's power lies in you know when he like sneak attacks, like those sorts of things is where he shines.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:41

On the subterfuge, like it's his uh it's his ability to like blend in as a doll and get places that no one else can get to easily. But in a full-on confrontation, like yeah, I think if I didn't know Chucky, yeah, if I thought Chucky was a doll, obviously I could go to bed and he would just run up to me and stab me in the neck and I'd die. Um, but like if it's game time, I'm fighting the living room. Like, come on, dude. Like, let's go. Unless he had a knife, but even like it's easy. He gets he'll get like one good stab before I grab his tiny little arms. Like he's he like this isn't like fighting the human with a knife. Well, a knife, humans relatively to a Chucky doll, have gangly long tentacle arms that I can just thrash and go around, whereas like his little arms like it's true.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:26

He does have a long range of motion, really. Yeah. What an adorable murderer. So Norris begins searching the apartment for Chucky as once again he's escaped. As Norris explores under Karen's bed, Chucky dispatches him with the baseball bat. And just before he can finish the job, Karen shoots him across the room. Chucky is not dead, however, but pissed off. And he starts to attack Karen, and just as she should have done at the beginning, she encloses him in the fireplace. Andy, who's had it up to here at this point, with being blackmailed and locked up, lights a match saying, This is the end, friend, before setting Chucky ablaze.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:11

This is so good. Uh, one, two things I want to make a point here for is I thought it was freaking hilarious. The the Chucky is it's like he's been electrocuted because he's like in behind the metal uh fireplace crazy he's like trying to break free of this thing, but like he's being you can briefly see the puppeteer at the feet, and they're obviously that's not a puppet.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:40

No, so in this scene, Chucky's stunt double Ed Gale was the one in the fireplace wearing a fireproof suit.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:49

Okay, yes, but before so but but just before that, they have an enematic, they must have an animatronic right before that because when he's freaking out, you can see oh beforehand, yes. When he's freaking out the first before he's set ablaze, before he's set on fire, um he uh Karen is pushing back into the grate for a couple of seconds. It's a little bit drawn out, and he's like shaking uncontrollably, screaming to try and get out of the grate. It's it's really funny in a good way. I'm not making fun of the movie, it's I think it's awesome. And you can see him being puppeteered briefly. There's uh you see some skin uh at his legs being shifted up and down and moved around, and I thought it was really good. And also, I like that Chucky says, Andy, we're friends to the end, right? And Andy's probably one of the only kids who gets to say a one-liner before killing someone. Um that's true, by saying, This is the end, friend, and then light throws the match on.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:48

Well, Newt does the same thing in aliens when she torches that one alien. No, I'm kidding. I don't she doesn't say that. She's in her one line was I've had it. Sorry, that was really stupid. Okay. So, yes, the stunt double is in the fire. Chucky is burning. I loved after I found out it was Ed Gale, I just loved that scene like twice as much. I thought it was an awesome scene. I love this entire finale. I love this entire finale.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:16

I think it's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:17

Yeah, this is amazing, and this is like I said, like where like all of this amazing like practical effects work comes into play. But I thought at the fire, I'm like, he's dead. So they embrace thinking he's dead, just as I did. As Chucky becomes char before their eyes, lying lifeless on the apartment floor, but he's not dead. As Andy searches for the first aid kit, he realizes Chucky is gone. He attempts to run back to his mother, but before he can, he's confronted by cheese sauce face Chucky, who approaches Chucky, who approaches him slowly with a knife. And I thought this looked fucking awesome.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:01

It's unreal. This the way that they got his burnt cheese face moving, and the the charred corpse of this doll is fantastic.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:14

Did you see he has a knife and he slowly is approaching, like they don't show the bottom half of Chucky, they just show the top. He's kind of tilting back and forth, approaching him. That to me was like ultimate fucking terminator. That was scary and awesome.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:34

Yeah, this is really evocative of when they blow up um the terminator with uh the pipe bomb and the truck, and there's the wreckage, and Sarah Connor is hugging Kyle Reese, and then you see in the background the wreckage start moving, and then of course, we have the T 100 chassis now fully unveiled, marching towards them down that hallway towards the locked door. That march that they have where you see the top half very much reminded me. Uh, or this Chucky scene reminded me of that to a T.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:06

Also, because there's nothing around Chucky, I believe, at that moment to show his size. He looks ominous. Like the camera angle is from below, and he looks like he is a relentless force. And I think it's like very Terminator, like he has he has a razor-sharp focus, even in cheese sauce form. In my opinion, too, you can see where Megan was inspired, because this scene, in my opinion, is an exact replica of the final scene where a charred Megan attacks the mother and daughter. Oh, yeah, that's a good point. Like almost identical, I thought. Like, not in the same exact way, but very similar. And you can see where like these early films have inspired a whole host of other horror films. That's what so Karen begins to shoot at Chucky and she blows pieces of his body off, including his head. And for a second, it doesn't seem like this will slow him down as his melted, headless body maintains life. And again, I thought this was very evocative of Terminator, when he the Terminator has no legs and it is crawling across the floor because its entire mission is to kill Sarah Connor, and it is relentless. And I loved this. I just I can't say enough about like how much I love the end of this film. I like just I thought it was amazing.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:45

Yeah, I think uh I I I fully agree here. And I th I love that I love the I just love that unstoppable force concept of like Chucky's like all bets are off now. I'm going to kill you guys. If it's the last thing I do.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:02

And indeed, it is the last thing he does because as Karen, Norris, and Andy recoup, a police officer picks up Chucky's charred head and places it on the TV in Karen's bedroom. Telling Norris there's no way this thing's alive. Just as he says this, Chucky's headless torso attacks from an upper vent before Karen shoots Chucky in the heart. He utters one last I'm Chucky. Wanna play? And finally, Chucky dies. Except for the seven other movies in the TV show.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:43

And it's the first time he's shot, and we get a blood spray behind him.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:47

Which also, do you know why that happens? Because they hit him in the heart. Because he's slowly becoming more human. Yeah. And you know what's funny? On Second Watch, I you can hear Chucky saying, like, strangle him, kill him, kill him, like to his torso. That's like strangling this guy. That's like really funny. That's great. So the film ends with Andy peering back through the doorway at Chucky's melted face, foreshadowing what's to come.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:21

Do you know what's funny too? I thought I had seen this. Um I I have seen this movie, but then I'm now thinking maybe I saw the is it the second one that ends in like a toy factory? Yes. So, you know what, man? I don't think I've ever sat through child's play. Really? I'm just really this, I'm really this sounds so stupid because I've seen this. I watched it twice this. I watched it twice. Yeah. I I think this is a classic case of like me misremembering. Um right now I'm having this epiphany. Sorry, like live on air here. I'm having this epiphany that I don't think I saw this movie before. I think I the only finale I ever remember is the second one at the toy factory. I love child's play too. Yeah, me too. So yeah, this was I guess like you did kind of go in this blind.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:09

Yeah. That's awesome. No, those are the best kind of movies to go into. So, Andrew, is there anything else you'd like to let us know about uh Child's Play before we end the podcast?

SPEAKER_01 1:30:22

Uh no, I think this is just a fun. If uh if you haven't watched it, you just wanted to, you know, you didn't care about the spoilers. I think this is just a movie that's fun to put on for a popcorn movie night. Um, it's fun from start to finish. Great acting by uh Miss Hicks there, playing Karen. Um and Chucky is just a yeah. Chucky is uh before the the term was coined as uh inseparable people. Um and Chucky is just he's one of those killers. He's just he's so much he's having so much fun on screen. Yeah, it's an enjoyable film.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:00

Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:01

So that is Child's Play, y'all. Join us again soon for our next feature film.