Psycho Killer

This week, hosts Frank and Andrew discuss the 2026 occult horror Psycho Killer! What happens when Bane gets his own procedural drama?! Please join us for a scene by scene break down of this (iconic) film.

Transcript

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Welcome to You Killed Clyde. Today we're going to be discussing what happens when Bane gets his own procedural drama. Folks, today we're talking about the 2026 slasher film Psycho Killer. On our journey with us today is my dear co-host Andrew. Andrew, how are you? I'm good. I'm uh slightly less good after having seen this movie and having had to watch it a couple times. Uh, but uh uh yeah, overall pretty good. I have lots to say about this movie. Um, I think there's there's a lot here to talk about that is more interesting than the film itself. Yeah. I okay, so where I want to start on this is a little bit backward from like where we normally start. So normally, you know how we sometimes play that game where I ask you, you know, how the film did, and then you kind of guess and you're like 90% wrong. Yeah. So we're gonna switch gears and I'm gonna open straight out the gate with the fact that I'm gonna go on a little diatribe just for a second, so just bear with me. So this movie received a 9% on Rotten Tomatoes. And so I so I always go, and I'm actually quite frustrated by this because I always go see horror movies in the theater. So I'm going to see Hokum later today. I'm a little late on the on the train, but I'm really excited. The theater's empty and it's like a matinee and it's raining, so it's like perfect. But I really wanted to see this movie, and it was playing at a theater really close to my house, and I was gonna walk there. I was super excited, and then the 9% completely fucking turned me off. And I'm like, a nine percent, Andrew. Do you realize like how low it has to be? Like Sleepaway Camp 3 has like a 22%. Yeah, this like the the thing with the 9% too is is the audience scores kind of are in a similar ballpark, they're a little higher, but still it very uh I had no desire to see this movie, and I'm I I'm happy that we're doing it because I got to see it and get to discuss it with you. But how I'll let you keep going here, but I'll just say this is one of these movies that it's so surprising it was even given a theatrical release when there's better films that went straight to Netflix or Prime that in the horror genre. So I'm I don't even know how this got a theatrical release. So I am of the case, so I ended up firing this movie up with my friend Nicole maybe like a month ago, because I saw it and we were like, let's just watch this movie. Like, I I've heard it's terrible, both of us are like huge horror fans. I ended up like really enjoying this movie, and I've actually watched it like three times. Like it's I don't know, I don't know why. And there's a couple things I want to praise about this film that I think don't garner a 9%. And I actually wonder where this is coming from. I love, especially in the first part of the film, I'll go into some things that I like and then some things that I don't like, but the things that I like is I love the set design and the color and the cinematography for the first half of the film. Like that opening scene is beautiful. This movie is shot. This movie has so many awesome like shots. The cinematography is fantastic in a stand up. The use of color and so on the cinematography. Um, like when he lays in a curls in a fetal position in the closet, the semi-truck scene. Yes, when he's watching it burn, is there's just there's some really, really great and the and the the actual picture itself is crisp and uh just a great use of color for for the first like you said, the first half of the film. It's very moody at times, which I liked a lot. It is, and I also want to praise like the outstanding acting. Like Georgina Campbell is fantastic in this movie, like regardless of whatever she's working with, the acting always grounds me into this is some real trauma she's experiencing. She is definitely out to get this guy. I believe her passion when she talks about where he's going to be next. Like, I have to give this movie like some kudos. And even just given like what we just said, the 9% is lost on me. Like, maybe you can shed light as we talk about the film, but I do not understand for the life of me. And I would actually probably give this movie maybe closer to like a seven out of ten. Yeah, I think I'm gonna disagree with you here. I think you're being a little too generous with the um with what you just said about the acting and stuff. I think Georgina Campbell's awesome. I I loved her in Barbarian. I think that um she's not given a whole lot to work with here. I think, yes, she's the grieving widow, and I like that she's got the conviction and willpower to go on this quest and bring this killer to justice. But every other, other than like a really fun scene with Malcolm McDowell later, um I find every other character in this movie just speaks in I guess like half-hearted dialogue, I would say, like very by the numbers. I would like I nothing stands out to me of this film where the dialogue or the acting of other characters is great. You know what's funny? The Malcolm McDowell scene is the one scene, and we can talk about this. And actually, when I go into the background and like critical response and all of that stuff, there someone says this exact same thing, but when he when the slasher goes to that mansion, that's when I think that the movie's tonal shift changes, the colors change, yep. And it sort of gets a little bit silly, and that's where I think it maybe lost. Like, I don't like that. I don't like anything to do with Malcolm McDowell in this film. Yeah, I thought he I I I liked that. And I love him, by the way. Me too. I just like that he seemed to be having some fun with the the BS he was spouting. I wonder though, okay, if you were to look at this as a did you see the like the latest Batman film? Yeah. And by Matt uh Matt Reeves? I don't know, but they share a very similar like color palette and mood, at least in the beginning of this film. And I started to wonder like, imagine you watch this movie from the perspective of this is a comic book adaptation or a comic book villain. Once I started watching it from like that perspective, I started to like really enjoy it. Like, imagine Bane had escaped the lab and like this was his cross-country girls summer trip. I think I think we're I know we're gonna get in this movie some more. Um and you're probably gonna have I have actually I'll I'll join you hopefully in providing some background to this film. But the I'm gonna use a line here, it's not my own line, but it's it's quoted from The Guardian, and I will sum up my feelings in this film with this with their line here, but this is how I feel. And I'll just say that it they said it's a strange beast and that it's too straightforward and dumb to work as a crime thriller, yet too dull and scarefree to work as a horror, awkwardly fallen somewhere in between. And I could not agree more with this because especially from the horror angle, obviously, this is a podcast reviewing horror films. This film seems oddly sanitized. The kills seem oddly quick, oddly CGI laden, um, and no practical effects, no even the church, the the the scene later on, we'll talk about more when he he kills a few people in succession. I thought that was gonna be finally a really fun, slow-mo, brutal killing spree. Yeah, yeah. And it's oddly like, oh, that nothing has impact. It's just kind of eh. Yeah. And it's also like fake. It's like yeah, so CGI laden. Like, yeah, that was a little uh underwhelming. I think this film, I honestly think this film would have gotten a lot more mileage out if you kept them, even if you had just kept the plot the same and the writing and all that, that's fine. But you uh in the killer indulged a little more and you saw a little more. I know, but rain blood, that's pretty good. It is, but like I just thought, like, for for what I would call this killer is a very what I would call a if you had to ask a suburban mother or father about what does a Satanist look like, they would say he listens to slipknock corn and probably wears some kind of mask and has tattoos. I feel like this killer is kind of like a surface level killer representation of Satanism and evil. And for him, even that the scene where he uses the brain blood, like it just it's oddly tame. It's just not as I just think this could have been like we could have the audience could have delighted more in some more sadistic kills. And I know it sounds messed up, but let's be honest. Hey, there's a reason why people watch Terrifier, there's a reason why we watch Halloween and Jason. I I'm arguing that there are some like sadistic films. But you know, I disagree. I think I do agree with you though, in the fact that like there aren't enough like that's what I'm saying. Like the first half of this film, and a lot of movies are like this. It's very much like a slasher film. Like when he sees the couple by the side of the road and won't get into it, that entire scene, and in my uh opinion, a clear lack of motivation. I don't understand why he pulled over, but we can talk about that later. That's very much like Jason Michael behavior. And I do understand what you're talking about. Like, I do get the idea that he's like a caricature. That's why I said, like, when you watch it from the perspective of like a comic book, I then sort of ground myself in like, oh, I I I a hundred percent get that. But don't you think it's also ironic that he is a caricature because nothing he's doing is actually summoning Lucifer. Like he believes he is like this true believer, but at the same time, that's all fake. It is, yes. I also with the way the way this movie, the way this movie's third act ends, the big climax, I with the amount of time that we spend from his perspective, I really wish we got more of an insight on why he needs to be killing a cross country in the aims, of course, we know it happens, the aims of fulfilling his ultimate death wish and sacrifice at the end of the film with the amount of heat he would have brought on to himself prior to setting that up. So I wish we my whole point is, I guess, to go back if that was lost, is uh I just wish we had more insight into this killer's motivation for randomly killing people. That's why I give it a seven out of ten. The three, the three percent, or the three is for the exact same things that you just brought up. No, this movie. Sorry, I don't do the final review. I would not, I would give this a three or a four out of ten. But not nine percent, like not a one out of ten. No, I like you know what I'm saying? Like, come the fuck on. I I have seen worse films that have gotten better reviews. I'll give you, I'll give it that. That's what I mean. Like, it's just it's such a weird, like, and I want to go back this quickly and then we'll jump into some background here. But the thing that I don't understand is while I was watching it, like let's say you were to remove some of like the critical, like obviously we're kind of reviewing the film, and you know, it's people's jobs. And I actually did read uh that very same Guardian article. There wasn't a ton of information on this movie. Uh no, I couldn't find much either. But uh, I mean, there's probably a reason for that, right? While we were watching it, I didn't like especially like I said the first half, I couldn't figure out why it garnered such poor reviews, and even the ending, like people give up the ending like a ton of flack over, you know, it's uninventive, it's like silly, it's whatever. But in my opinion, like this guy's entire aim is to summon Lucifer with as many sacrifices as he can garner. Let's get into it. Let's let's actually let's talk about it and get into it. But I think um, yeah. Okay, folks, time to get in some background uh for our research heads out there. Um, I want to talk about how this film came to be. So Cycle Killer was written in the mid-2000s by Sevens Andrew Kevin Walker, but it took until 2023 to finally get made. So according to The Guardian, it's had its share of almost over the years. So in 2009, Fred Durst was set to direct. Who you know, I can't stand that guy, but uh I don't think many people can. Like, I I don't get me wrong, I like my sharefair limp biscuit songs to party to, but uh Fred Durst as a director or a person, are you kidding me, dude? Yeah, like uh uh so I'm happy that didn't happen. So, anyways, so in 2010, Eli Roth was set to produce begin. And in 2015, it was supposed to get German funding, but each iteration found a snag, and it took until 2023 for the film to finally get made. So in 2023, it was reported that the film was greenlit with Walker helming the script and Gavin Pallone, the producer of 8mm, directing. So this was supposed to be Pallone's feature directorial debut. And given what we talked about earlier, I give him some kudos for his directing. So he he is the director then. Yes, yeah. You know what? I I guess I'll I'll give the the camera guy the the kudos. No, that's fair. No, yes, I'll give him the director. Obviously, he dictates the shots. I will give the director some kudos for the first some scenes in the first half of this film. Yes, okay. Well, principal photography wrapped in 2023, but the film sat on the shelf until it was officially released in theaters. So filming lasted, get this. Filming lasted for a total of just over one month from March 23rd to April 26th, 2023. That's why that's that's quick. Very quick. For what we got, I think that's super fast. I mean, I don't think sorry, I don't think the quality in terms of like cinematography, like costumes, scenery, for one month, that seems pretty outstanding. Yeah, I guess I think that's they got a lot done in that month for sure. Um, but it begs the question maybe it needed more filming because I think this film at certain times is clearly was chopped up in editing or or something. There's a couple scenes we'll talk about later that are absolutely have jarring transitions. And I think if they had more footage to work with, maybe it wouldn't have needed to have these transitions that it was so so terrible. Um, but it is impressive nonetheless that you they filmed so quickly at that. Quick question Do you think that this is a worse movie than Friday the 13th, part seven? Oh do not come on. I would say I enjoyed this movie more than that movie, yes. Oh, interesting. Well, this is a little bit more on the subject matter. So, screenwriter Andrew Kevin Walker deliberately structured the script around the mythologies of angels, demons, sin, and punishment, thematic territory he previously explored in seven. So the satanic slasher is written as a strict, humorless, fundamentalist of the occult. He views his gruesome acts, including painting walls with victim blood and ritualistically drinking the blood of a murdered Catholic priest, as literal holy sacraments. There is one point that you made earlier, and I think you are correct in that he does seem to like pluck on all of like the superficial satanic. Like you said, it like he he basically this character was written as a very like stereotypical, like what we would think of as a satanic slasher. So it wasn't very creative, in my opinion. Yeah, there's speaking of like the you hit the nail on the head there, not very creative, and you it it begs the question. I'm always so curious, and I'll never know. I'm always so curious in Hollywood what causes a script to get shopped around and hovering amongst different circles for nearly 20 years. Where, like, did this script really demand itself to get made by somebody? Like, what was so alluring about the script that um it it got made? You know what I mean? Like, and this is not the first time, not the last time, but like this has happened in Hollywood before where you hear about a script that's been passed around for like a 10 years, five years. Think of Freddie versus Jason. Yeah, that was like I think 20 years. Yeah, that was in the work for that exactly, yes. So that even the idea of that was brought up almost, I think, 20 years before that film came out, and it just there's there's obviously there must be some key people who like love the idea so much they keep it alive and they keep passing different people because I I don't know how this script especially what was special about it to to get to stay in circulation for almost 20. I actually found but I think sorry, I think you have to think of it though. This guy wrote seven. So in the in people's mind, they're like, man, this guy, no matter what this is, this guy's gonna kill it. And at the time, at the time, I agree. I can agree with you, but except Walker has also produced a ton of duds. Oh, yeah, for sure. And if you look at the I think didn't he write eight millimeter? Did he write that? I think so. Uh I I don't think he has any full writing credits. I think he just know he's partial writing credits on the Wolf Man, which you like and I don't like. Yeah, yeah. Like he's just he's written stuff other than seven, which I think people regard as some of their favorites uh by David Fincher there. Um, he doesn't really have another script that's like, oh, this guy's pedigree is like his resume is really, really good. And I I'm always so curious, like, what causes a script like this to stay alive and what what forced people to want to make this? And then I'll say more, I'm circling all the way back to what the point you ended on is that the psychokiller being superfluous Satanist tropes. I personally like I the amount of damage that satanic panic caused young kids and teenagers who were just trying to enjoy comic books, music, Dungeons and Dragons, which of course you know I'm a huge advocate. I love Dungeons and Dragons, I think it's a great game for people. Um, the amount of damage that it did back in the day will never truly know, like us two will never really get it, like really grasp. And it, I mean, it played in that Tom Hanks movie. That was a plot point about uh him believing he could fly, I think, because this character in the game could fly. It's like I just feel like this killer being such an uninventive trope of the culmination of ideas around satanic panic, very boring and lazy. But don't you think that that's like if you okay, so I maybe I'm giving this movie too much credit, but don't you think that is the purpose of the killer? Like the killer is so this guy is essentially a serial killer who is disillusioned by the idea of Satanism. Like he's giving his murders a purpose, and he's literally looking at tropes to inform his way of life. Like, that's that's the silliness I find in it. Like, I don't think that this I and I know you're probably gonna argue this is a fault of the film, but I you could argue that this is just the killer's perception, which is Our perception, which is simp simple and kind of stupid. Yeah, and like it's it could very well be this is a guy who takes rudimentary ideas of Satanism and he just loves it, and he he him obviously not being mentally well runs with that, right? Um, and I I can buy that for sure. I just I think for a movie that flip-flops between our two titular characters, not titular characters, our two main characters. Um I do wish we had more insight into his beliefs. Obviously, maybe they are just very surface level, and I get that. I just kind of wish we had an idea of what why he feels the need to kill along the path to his ultimate goal, which would end up resulting in killing millions. But maybe he just enjoys. Yeah, like don't you think he just is a serial killer who wants to have fun? Like he literally, like, well, let's get okay. I because I really want to talk about that the scene where he kills the couple, and a lot of what I want to talk about is motivation. So let's get there and then let's open up the bag of chips. Anyway, okay, Andrew. We are not going to play our reception game this week, as the entire premise of our initial discussion was predicated on the fact that this movie bombed so damn hard. So, as mentioned, Psycho Killer received a mere 9% on Rotten Tomatoes. Metacritic assigned the film a score of 26 out of 100, based on eight critics indicating generally unfavorable reviews. Meg Navarro of Bloody Disgusting gave the film 1.5 out of 5 stars, calling it vapid and generic, but praised the film's production design and its cast, writing, I totally agree. I pulled this because I totally agree with this entire review. Campbell and Rogers bring enough screen presence to engage, despite being saddled with like paper-thin characters prone to making baffling choices. She goes on to say that Logan Miller injects warmth and a sense of humor in his brief supporting role, teasing a much stronger and more entertaining film. Had Pallone not taken the material so stone cold serious. Yeah, and I think that's that's a really good review, actually. And I think for it to only get a star and a half from a horror movie website, that's says a lot to you. Yeah, it does because they gave the collector three out of five stars. So like that, and that's generally and I personally feel like this is a better film than that, but you know, that's a funny one. You think this is better than the collector? I do, yes. You really like this movie. It's I do. I like I'm sometimes with it. Yeah, yes. I I you know what I will never I won't fault you for that because that happens to all of us. Every so often a movie resonates with with you, but not with you, but like you know, with yourself. Um to the and and your friends, whatever can't really see it. And I've had that happen a few like a bunch of times, and I I I get that. So I respect that. You're king of liking and giving movies like a major. Like, I remember like when the early X-Men Marvel movies came out, you were like so there from you can't even don't even bring up those movies, all right. X-Men 2 is amazing. Yeah, you're like, didn't you put up the hand? Raise hand. Hey, don't talk with that. Yeah, you're like, talk to the hand, yeah. All right, okay, well, cut that out. Okay, psycho killer. Listen to this. This is pretty sad. Psycho Killer grossed two and a half million against a $10 million budget. So it bombed super hard. And like I said, the reason I didn't go see it was because it got such bad reviews and I didn't go to the theater. So I wonder, you know, it this the problem with this, the problem with reviews, and like I do obviously consumers trust them, and I think that they're valuable, especially if you're going to a restaurant. But for a film, like me seeing a 9%, I just wonder how many people that prevented from going to see this film. Well, yeah, I I uh prevented me as well because I saw the initial trailer in theaters and thought it looked awesome. Yes, it fucking looked amazing. The trailer was so cool and uh moody, the music was great, and I was like, oh, I and I saw Georgina Campbell in it, and I was like, oh, I'll see that for sure. And then reviews came out, and I was like, nine, what the fuck? Yeah, and what did you do? Not go, right? Yeah, it turned me right off seeing the movie. Absolutely. Yeah, and like that's kind of shitty, man, because like this movie probably could have garnered a whole hell of a lot more. And I'm not saying, like, obviously, like, don't review until after the opening weekend, but you know, like shit, dude. But maybe you're also saying that because you like the movie, right? Like, is it it could have garnered, but like, is it a tragedy it didn't? Like, does it deserve it? It is. I I think to be honest with you, like, I feel like a lot of people probably would have enjoyed this in the theater. Like, I personally feel like I I would have enjoyed this in the theater. And the thing that makes me really sad, whether the movie is like this or not, I just really want to encourage people to go. Like, I know you're a huge theater goer for horror movies, and so am I. And I just really feel like this was a lost opportunity for me personally. Like, maybe for other people they wouldn't have got I just I just wish I had made the effort to go see this. You know, I actually really I really like that sentiment, Frank. Like, that's I think too, I forget myself sometimes in that I should reviews or reviews, but I think especially for horror films, I should just like who cares and just go see the movie in theater. Oops, sorry, and go see that movie in theaters. Uh and because it's at the end of the day, like, am I gonna have a bad time? Probably not. Especially not with this movie. Like, this movie is not a walk out of the theater movie, in my opinion. Even if you don't like it, I would I would say no way, yeah. Right? So it's like part seven, Jason, right? Well, that one I don't think I love that movie, but I had a you know what? I love how much fun I had with that movie. Um, can I just let everyone know on the podcast? Okay, I just want to take a quick uh break here and just say that was our least watched episode. Not by a lot, but by a bit. And I just want to like make a plea to people like if you're listening to this podcast and you enjoy it, DM me. Like, let me know like your feedback, if there's movies you want us to review, feedback. Like, we're a very early stage podcast, and we're trying to build our listenership, we're trying to build our Instagram presence. If you could like share, you know, if you if you're engaging with the content and you like it, like let's work together at like building our community, and we would really appreciate it. We'll even give you a little shout out. How about that one? All right, back to our original programming. Andrew, are you ready to get into the satanic panic of it all? Alrighty. All right. So today, Andrew and I are going to break down this film scene by scene, loosely. Um, if you haven't seen it, obviously pause. Take a break, come back and join us. I will say that I was gonna make a joke here about how your time would be better spent listening to Psycho Killer by the Talking Heads on repeat for an hour and a half. But I will say, even after my brief discussion with my brother here, yes, go see the movie, watch it. I don't think you'll have a miserable time, and then come back and listen. Do you know what's funny? So when I was just researching this movie, and obviously uh you all heard there's not a whole lot, uh there is at least 10 times as many articles written about the talking head song than there are about this movie. And this is a movie. Yeah, I that's that makes I mean in defense of the movie Psycho Killer, I would say that song's been out since 1977. So, you know, you don't see it. Maybe by 2030, maybe by 2056, there'll be a ton of articles about this movie. I like doubtful, but uh or maybe it'll be forgotten to the annals of time, which is more likely. I think so. Unless this becomes like a cult, I could see this becoming like a cult sort of uh this I mark my words. I feel like this is going to garner a fan following, guys. I think uh I I think if we take it a little private aside here where Frank can't hear us, um, this will probably never become a cult following. Come on. You know what's funny? One of the reviews for this movie was Keska say run run run run away. I like when reviewers just have like the one-sentence reviews. It reminds me of this movie. Uh I mean, everyone, a lot of people, this is Spinal Tap, and they put out this album called Shark Sandwich, and they're reading the reviews out loud, and one reviewer says, Shit sandwich. That's so funny. Okay, are you ready? Yeah. That's so good. Okay, so we open on an old country road in the dead of winter, very atmospheric, where our satanic slasher casually drives a Mustang right into old Colby, Kansas. And so, to be honest, I didn't even know that it snowed in Kansas, but I I looked this up and it was nearly entirely filmed in Winnipeg and Selkirk, Manitoba, which do look very familiar to me. So we can see from the slashers POV, a police officer begins to tail him, or at least that's what he thinks. So he pulls over the Mustang, despite the officer not having his lights on. So naturally, the police officer pulls over himself, and he approaches and he notices some pharmaceutical drugs, which we have to talk about later, piled up in the back seat. He asks the slasher why he pulled over despite not being pulled over. And the slasher says he's tired and just passing through. Uh Frank, no, he says, I'm tired. So I want to comment quickly here that critics have I almost okay. I want to comment quickly here that critics have widely panned the voice, saying it's kind of corny and obviously poor ADR. Yeah. And you just brought, and this is why I feel like this character has parallels to Bane. Yeah, I just feel like the guy that got to play him, he's a former wrestler, and I his name is now escaping me. Uh, do you have I don't know if you have it there, but yeah, yeah, I'll introduce him. I don't know why they couldn't have just had him speak in a monotone voice. I'm saying it. There's there's times where it sounds so artificially pitched down um that I'm like, uh I get they're trying to make him mysterious and stuff and and and intimidating, but yeah, from from from minute one here of hearing his voice, uh, it's you can tell that they're they're they've edited they've edited his voice, and you can tell right away. Oh, for sure. Okay, question, and I'll probably ask you this a few times during this podcast. Do you think if you were to look at this from the framing of a comic book, would you be okay with the voice? Uh like I think I can I can buy a deep, dark voice of a Satanist psycho killer. I just think I think even from the framing of a comic book, which I like, I get what you're saying stylistically, but I think we're giving this film that's allowing the film to get away with something that it shouldn't be getting away with so much. That's true, yeah, that's very true. And it's not like you can reframe a lot of stuff from the from different everyone's got a different context on how they view something. And I know what you're saying, like stylistically, in the way the shot, some of the scenes uh could be panels right out of a comic book, like the the this the the the truck scene later on. But oh yeah, I think that's given this way too much credit to allow this the adr in this film, this movie to it's just why did it need to sound so artificial? I don't know. You don't like how it sounds like goes, our girls props are not yet. I was bored in the dark, yeah. Yeah, okay. As the killer kind of like faux searches for his license, an additional officer pulls up on scene. She happens to be the officer's wife, Jane, played by Georgina Campbell, who asks him if he needs her to stick around. He declines, and after an exchange of I love you's, she begins to pull away but stops. Question for you why do you think she stopped and turned and pulled up behind him? Uh, I think this is just uh a police officer's intuition. He's alone on the side of a highway with a dark Mustang, a weirdo in the front seat. He's got long stringy hair. Uh, why not? I think she's thinking, you know what, it's my husband, I don't want to leave him alone here. I'll just I'll just sit in the back in case something goes wrong. Do you know that none of that crossed my mind? Oh well. I I think yeah, it's her husband. Like, I don't, she's like he's alone. So true, yeah. He's alone. I think it's that natural feeling that we'd all get. Like, if I if remove the police from it, and if you were like talking to someone who looked kind of sketchy, yeah, true. And I'd and I had to do go do something. I might just stick around around the outskirts and just observe and be like, make sure you're okay, right? Yes. All right, so this next this next thing is in the trailer. So she proceeds to call dispatch to check in on an existing murder case. A string of murders taking place along the highway. Just before she finishes her call, the slasher pulls her husband near and with a shotgun, blasts a hole in him. So pretty brutal. So Officer Mike has been hit, and as he perishes, she attempts to take her shot, and despite blowing out the Mustang's back window, doesn't hit the slasher at all. And this kind of becomes a theme later in the film that maybe she misses these key opportunities. Like they make her out to be like an outstanding idiot, like throughout the entire film. I yeah, I don't there's a scene later I'll talk about again about her shooting and missing, but uh um back to this the the killer here murdering this police officer. Um I will just say that again, I will suspend my disbelief. The amount of heat this would bring upon someone, especially broad daylight with a direction of travel. I don't I don't buy that he would have gotten very far. That's what I wanted to ask you. No, I think this is a big point, and I bring this up later. It's like he for the next like few scenes continues to drive that Mustang and park it and have it overnight at places. And I didn't understand that. So here, this is a case, this is a cloud, this is a I'll go on this more later. I think this movie one would have benefited very much from being set in the 80s or 90s and not the modern day. Um, two, the my big problem with this scene, what I mean, the results of the scene rather, oh um, is that we have real life many examples of what US law enforcement will do in search of a cop killer. And this would be like a statewide, countrywide manhunt. And they the state would be locked down, they'd have cars at every single checkpoint, a chopper in the air, probably within the like the hour, and he's driving, I would argue, the most identifiable vehicle in the world. For sure. Yeah. Because everyone from a child to an older person, doesn't matter what decade you're talking about, can identify a Ford Mustang. Yeah. And not only that, it's a black Ford Mustang beat up, and it has a shot out, the uh back window shutout. And I find it absolutely abhorrent and ridiculous that he gets away with parking in a parking lot in a seemingly small town and staying there for hours, and there's not a single person noting the weird vehicle in daylight. I just think like this is a thing, is like when you find out later on, we talk about it, when you find out what this guy's role, like his end game is this seems like one of the most stupid things I that you could do is killing a cop in America. I do well, I just want to, as an aside though, like I do want to say that I don't feel he felt he had a choice. Like, I get what you're saying about the aftermath, but like I do see like why he did it. Does it that make sense to me? I just they should have had they should have filmed more scenes where he ditches and gets a new vehicle within like within like a half hour or so. You know what's funny? Doesn't he end up exchanging the Mustang for like a black charger? Like, doesn't he end up like getting basically the exact same vehicle? He ends he ends up getting a Chrysler 300, um not long into the film, and we don't see how he gets it. I'm not saying we need to, but I think especially with the Mustang, we should have absolutely seen him like park in a little park not quickly, ditch it, and like somehow steal another car without you know what I mean. That way the heat at least will subside for a little bit. Yeah, I just think it's that's he's allowed to get away with a lot in that car, and the fact that there wouldn't be like we all we everyone who's listening to this podcast, you've seen it on TV before. Like the there would be a chopper's there'd be it would be in the response to that would be insane. Yeah, yeah. All right, so I just want to end the scene by saying that like as she consoles her husband, I do just want to give her acting credit again because she does a very strong job of conveying emotion in this movie, and I just love her, especially in Barbarian. Okay, all right. Well, the next couple scenes are really to highlight uh some moments with the slasher. So we cut to an exterior of a motel and we learn from the news that 15 victims have been had at the hands of the satanic slasher, including decapitations and mutilations. And the slasher is staying at this motel to shower, clean up, and get some much needed rest. So I want to bring up this scene primarily because this shows like a more intimate portrayal of the slasher. Like this is how he lives. And it also gives me a moment to talk about two important things. So, producer Roy Lee and the creative team, they spent like a massive amount of time designing the villain's signature mask. And they initially experimented with taking the mask off mid-movie, but felt like the unmasked killer lost all of its like terrifying aura, choosing instead to keep him masked for the maximum amount of time and for the maximum communal scare factor. The second thing I want to bring up is to give the satanic slasher an overwhelming physical presence. The production cast James Preston Rogers, a six foot five former professional wrestler, to physically impose over the lead actress Georgina Campbell. And so literally every time this guy is on screen, I get wet. Well, uh, I don't, but uh I will I will say, I will say this about the about his physical appearance. I think this guy could have I think they really could have done a lot with his build and evoked Jason, evoked Halloween, like Halloween kills, 2018 Halloween Michael Myers, who they really went into his physicality even more there, but especially Jason. Um but we this is a this is what I'm saying in terms of like the the sanitization of some of these kills. I wish we could have seen him use his build to bigger effect in some of these kills. We get a awesome, I would argue, one of the best scenes that actually has some kinetic energy to it. One of the best scenes is the hotel confrontation between Jane and uh Psycho Killer, and he does use his size, and I think she fights very intelligently. I'll talk about that more later, but we don't often get to see him. He he uses a hammer or weapons a lot of the time, but it would have been really cool to see him go toe-to-toe with like other big men or something for one of his kills and like just absolutely destroy them with because he's so physically intimidated that he his size when his when his shirt's off, he looks so mean with the mask on. And like the tattoos are great, and I think I just would have loved to see him be more destructive and a wreck. Ball when he with some of his kills, but because he otherwise doesn't use his size to much effect until like one or two scenes. I actually would argue that it's maybe like none of them because I think you're right. Like, you know how ja Jason's like classic kill is to like just crush your skull. Like, I think you're right. I think it would have been cool and would have added an interesting, almost like supernatural, you know, satanic element if he just used his physical strength. But he really especially with the little subplot that they kind of throw in there, it would have made sense. And I'll we'll talk about that ending and more later, but it would have made more sense for him to be borderline supernatural in his strength. Yeah, it's like one the scene I really like, it's because it's so brutal in Halloween kills, is when he lifts the firefighter up at the crowbar in the Oh my god, yeah, yeah. And like you're like, okay, we know Myers is probably in his 60s. Why is he that strong? And obviously, it's because the evil itself is that strong. Like he's just so in this movie. Um, I wish we could have seen him be a terrifying present. You you made the you know what you made the perfect comparison earlier, almost like Bane from Batman. He has that look to him, and it would have been so cool to see him pick like a police officer up or someone who's found him and just break them over his like fr his frame, his knee, his throw them through a at a pillar. Like, I know it's a funny kill, but when Jason picks up the sleeping bag and slams that woman against the tree post, like stuff like that, I think would have been would have been so fun to watch and really, really cool on. You know, it's funny, like you're bringing up um, like before we got online, you were talking about you're like, I think I'm gonna change your opinion on this film. I think that at the end, when we get there, like obviously he uses a gun to kill a host of people so that he can gain entry into this master control room. But I think that was a completely missed opportunity to replicate the scene with Malcolm McDowell, but from a physical perspective. And I think like they completely like just kind of shit the bed on like that entire like that's my least favorite part of the film. I honestly think, based on what we know, he could have when he was with that guy, I honestly think he could have stood to get shot a few times and still just kept going. Yeah, so let's talk about this next scene. Couple things I want to bring up here. So the following day, he still in the very same Mustang, which we talked about being super odd, parks outside a pharmacy all day long. And yeah, this is this is unacceptable to me. I'm sorry. This is stupid. I I agree. I actually think it's pretty crazy. So as day turns to night, and I really wanted to bring this up for one reason. So the pharmacy closes, and I just want to pause here to say that like this is probably one of the most beautiful shots in the entire movie of the pharmacy at night with the red glaring sign, the soft dark evening. Just found it like gorgeous. And personally, post like the couple getting killed, they really don't revisit too much of this cinematography until the end. And that's where the tonal shift like doesn't work for me. I also love the shot here of the woman, she lights up a cigarette, and we get the shot from the front seat to the back seat, and he's lit up in the back by the soft red glow of the RX sign. And I think it's just an incredible shot. It's like, oh shit. Like, I really, really like that scene. So, as you mentioned, there is a lone female pharmacist who heads back to her car, and as she lights the smoke, we do see the slasher in the back seat. But he does like he brutally murders her in like an off-camera shot. And I think again, this is a bit of a lost opportunity to show us just how brutal she can be. We are watching a keep in mind, this is a horror movie marketed towards horror fans about a killer, and this is a kill that happens at an off-angle where you can't see how he kills her. I this would have been again, not that I love seeing innocent woman after innocent woman get mercilessly butchered on screen, but this would have been this would have been I love it. Um, I'm kidding. Um, I would have loved to see like strangulation. He's behind her, right? Like, why not just he's so strong? Why not just wrap an arm around the seat and crush her neck against the seat? That would have been a cool kill. Like, or just like I don't know, like shove her head through a window, or like there's so many things, yeah. Exactly. This could have been a great scene. No weapons, no nothing needed. He just grab just crushes her from behind or something. And why like there's two kills, there's at least two where he kills them off screen. I'm like, why that's probably we're watching a horror movie about a guy called the slasher. Like exactly. Where's the slashing, dude? Okay, but this is where this is where my kind of counterpoint comes in. So I do this doesn't seem to be a ritual killing, but like a utilitarian one, because he wants drugs. So, like through the CTB footage, we see him enter the pharmacy and he ravages it for some much needed fuel. Now, this is a fucking silly trope to me personally. And I'm gonna give you uh yeah, I'm gonna give you a little history here for just a second. So during the satanic panic of the 1980s and 90s, moral and religious leaders frequently claimed that devil worship and drug abuse were intrinsically linked. So, from this viewpoint, hallucinogenic trips were sometimes equated with opening doors to demonic influence. However, listen to this. According to the Church of Satan, while popular culture and media often links Satanism with hallucinogenic drugs, the reality is that major strains of established Satanism explicitly reject mind-altering substances. So I find this link between the psycho killer Satanism and this the hallucinogenic drugs to be the silliest trope in this movie. I will say a couple things here. Again, we are hot off the heels of the heat drawn from killing a police officer. Um, we all know, again, this is where I think the movie should have been set are the 80s or 90s, and it would have gotten away with a whole lot more. I'll say this pharmacies have alarms. The alarms would have gone off. Also, their narcotics, all the heavy narcotics or those kind of painkiller-like drugs. They are not kept behind counter. They they're universally known to be kept in a safe, in a time delay safe after hours for this specific purpose because the there's rashes of break-ins way back in the day of junkies trying to get this medication. So I think again, this is something that he gets away with and the movie allows him to do way too easily. I I I completely agree with you. I think it is absolutely ridiculous. I'll say this in defense of the movie, one second, one second. I'll just say this. In defense of movies, I understand, like, you know me, Frank. I let movies get away with a lot. I do, I really do. And it not I will always suspend my disbelief to the nth degree to to see a movie through to the end and see what the vision was and see like if I enjoyed it. Um, but this is a movie set in modern day America. Uh, we have him like I just think this goes hand in hand with the fact that the amount of heat he would have drawn from that last kill, he's in a Mustang that is still was involved in that crime, and now he's breaking into a pharmacy that's not that is a hot location to break into. Um, I just think they should have done more here to explain that he's easily doing this. I don't know. I don't know what I would have needed. No, I think you're right. And I also think that there must have been a string of pharmaceutical break-ins. Oh like I yeah, go for it. And the only thing I'll ask you to do I know we have your context. I like I really like that background you provided on the uh the stereotype of Satanism and psychotropic drugs, but is let's eliminate that context in this movie. Do like, do these drugs ever play a role in this movie? No, not at all. Yeah, so like this is the thing I would say is like this is an important scene in terms of the movie makes us a point to show us him breaking in to get drugs. We see them, we have a couple scenes of him on his car seat and later on when he's making a bomb, but we don't know we don't have the context, I guess, or we don't know why he's taking them or for what purpose why they're so important to him in this movie. We can assume, we can obviously assume he's on painkillers because of XYZ. I just wish they would have explained something. We again we spend a lot of time in this movie from his perspective. I wish we would have seen some scenes where maybe he has pain or something he can't he needs to deal with that he's he's just taking these things by the handful. No, I think what this is here for is just to show you that Satanists do psychotropic drugs. That's literally what this is here for. Because aside from like Malcolm McDowell later like partying with his friends, which is also completely unrelated to like their religion, there's this never plays into you know what would have been so cool is if there was a scene where the drugs took effect and he was able to speak to Satan, or even if it was just in his own mind, like even if it was just some ritualistic fuckery. Funny enough, in the original script, um there's actually gonna be scenes from the killer's point of view, dream sequences where he goes to hell. And like how fucking cool would that be? And there, like, there's a there's one scene here, I don't think it would have filmed too well. I think they would have had to interpret it differently. There's one scene where we see uh fields uh in hell of like goat men and demons uh torturing and molesting humans, and he comes down from a black, cloudy sky with his like weapons in hand, almost being heralded into hell or Hades. Oh my god, dude, that would have been like incredible. And yeah, like I just think that is context for maybe what his belief system and stuff, and like I it I'm when you read that the original script and you read some of these parts, I'm like, this I think that would have been this script again. It's I don't think it would have saved the movie, but I think there's scenes like that that could have been written uh reinterpreted to show us from his point of view what maybe he sees sometimes. And I think you brought up a I think a fantastic example. I think it could have been cool to have a scene with him on so many of these drugs that he's he literally thinks he's speaking to Lucifer or Satan, and he he hears a voice telling him to keep going or something now, open the gate. Yeah, and I think that would have, like I said, that that would have given a really good connection back to the drugs. Agreed. We return to Jane, she's obviously grieving, and we learn that she's putting a little plan together to like find this dude, find the slasher. So we learn that she feels like an incredible amount of guilt around failing to kill the slasher on the highway, and she wants another chance at a shot so that Mike can finally rest in peace. So her father attempts to stop her, letting her know like there's nothing she could have done to save him, but she is like in hot pursuit. So we enter our third slasher kill of the movie, and like we talked about, like I quite enjoy the slasher aspect of this movie. We don't get enough of it, but Frank, can I just quickly interrupt you here? Yes, of course. So I know you're about to go into this other next kill, but there's a quick little before so before Jane goes on this quest, I don't know why this I don't really know why they felt a point to say this. We have one of her coworkers, a cop, show up to the house speaking to her father, and she says anything yet, and the cop's like, nah, and he but he also says this he says they can't ID the pharmacist because the psycho killer took her ID. And I'm like, really? You can't identify the woman who most likely works there locked up and in her own car with a license plate. I'm like, I just don't understand why they include the line to make the police or or I guess the investigation trying to chase this guy so incompetent. I don't understand. The only thing I can think of is that they're providing the audience with a logical out. Like for all the things that we talked about earlier, like there'd be a chopper in the sky, there'd be like, you know, all these things, but they're basically saying that like they don't have anything. By the way, this is this is what the point is, but it's still yes, I want to say this too. I I never want to sound like something's like CinemaSins or something like that, where I'm poking holes where there aren't uh none in the completion of this film, and so and I think it's fair to say in our other movies, I think I don't often I'm not nitpicky like this. I just think that that is details that actually are important to the way this killer's conducting himself in this movie. That's all I'll say. But no, but I I think it's really good because I think that point is something I I didn't record because I didn't think it was pivotal. But when you think about it, wouldn't that not be the impetus behind Jane's whole arc? Like knowing, like if the police had come to the door and said, Hey, we we have a lead on this guy, we're in hot pursuit, that would have prevented her entire adventure, right? So it's pivotal, I think. And they even say, like, last last we know he was heading west on you know 95 or something. It's like, what? Well, why why aren't you out there right now? Like so this this I want to get into. Like, so the only reason I really want to get into this couple killing, there's just a lot to unpack here, but uh I just want to bring up one thing before we hop right into that. So while he's driving along the highway, uh, yes, he's still in his Mustang, Andrew. It's days later he's in the Mustang, still in Kansas, I'm assuming. So the reason I bring this drive up is because, and this occurs a lot in the film, he's listening to the radio where a gentleman named Mr. Pendleton spouts on about how we need to give thanks to his infernal majesty and his pharmaceutical medications because it's foretelling humankind is heading in the right direction. And so Mr. Pendleton also says that you can find us in the classified ads in the national tribune if you've got the dedication. So, two things really quickly here. One, he has found another true believer who seems to be in a leadership role, and he has a way to contact this gentleman. So things are also voiced unmistakably by Malcolm McDowell. Oh yeah. I love Malcolm McDowell. Truthfully, uh when we get there, the entire silliness uh just pulled me right out of this movie. And if anything, that's what that's what gave it the seven out of ten. Not all the other things we talked about. Okay. So the slasher sees a couple at the side of the road changing a flat tire. He stops, he grabs a sledgehammer, approaches the man, and just bludgeons him to death. I have a question before we get into his partner. What was the purpose of him pulling over? We don't know. We don't. I mean, that that's all there's to it. Is like this is a kill again. I think I think one, you can look at it two ways. You can be fine with the fact that this killer just kills randomly when he wants to. Uh, or two, maybe he thought he could rob them of some money, some credit cards. So I think the thing I'll say is this that I just put together now is that I'm pretty sure he does steal the guy's wallet after this scene, and then we see him put a classified ad in the paper over the payphone with a credit card. Okay, gotcha. So maybe that was the purpose. So there might be a utilitarian purpose to this one as well. Okay, that makes more sense. I also appreciate this because, like, you brought up Halloween kills. This is a that movie's like king of this, where they just put a good old-fashioned kill scene in because we need it. Like we desperately need some axion. Yes. You know what I mean? This movie is already needing, like, it just needs more of killing and blood. Yes, it does. Like, I'm sorry, it's called Psycho Killer. Yeah, exactly. I totally forgot about that. Yeah. His uh, so his poor partner is up front and she's listening to some music, and she does notice like something's up. So oh man, something something's something's wrong back there. She like heads out of the vehicle and she sees her poor partner just bludgeon to death the side of the road. And when she turns around, and this is an example of where I think they could have used his stature better. She just sees him like looming in front of the car. And this is where I feel like this is this turns into a little bit of a slapstick situation to me. I didn't totally hate this, but what a missed opportunity. So she sees the slasher, she bolts, she runs right into the middle of the road where she attempts to flag down a semi, but only manages to startle the driver enough to flip it the fuck over. Yeah, so I also I want to talk about the scene. Uh I want to talk about two things here. Uh, one, the visibility is good. Like, we know this from him driving around. Yeah, there's a little bit of like that residual fog in the marsh, whatever. But overall, the the visibility is good here. Two, a truck slamming its brakes on would probably cause it to jackknife and and not flip over and blow up. But but listen, I'll say this, I'll say two things here. One, the original script here makes a little more sense. So this plays out identically, except he again talked about physical stature or being a little supernatural. He takes his sledgehammer and whips it down the down the road and it it strikes the front of the truck's windshield right where the driver is. Wow. And the driver's like, holy fuck, slams the brakes on. That's a little more panic-inducing than seeing someone on the road. And then he puts it in the ditch and it flips over and it does kill her because it she's trying to get out of the way. But obviously, the way the truck starts jackknifing and then rolls over. I I and I think that would have made a little more sense about why the truck driver panics and flips the truck over. It would. I just felt like it was like a lot too crazy. I don't know. But I just think that that was a lot of like pomp and circumstance. Like they obviously spend some money on this scene, probably half the movie's budget. And and I just feel like it's completely unnecessary. Like, it would have been so cool to have, like you said, like lift her up and just with sheer force, just fucking explode her head. Or done. How about this? How about this? You if we want a scene with a semi-truck, how about lift her up and throw her into it? Even I don't know, like, let's workshop that. But I just I feel like there's like we're on the fly, okay, guys. On the fly, we're spitballing here, but yes, I I do agree that they could have done something different here. But I do like it, and like you said, like there ends this this ends before he uses the blood. We'll talk about that in a second. This kind of like ends with him, this beautiful backflip shot of the truck just burning in the distance. And like I said, prior to the drastic tonal shift that we are uh going to be heading into, beautifully done. And uh kudos to the uh photography uh person. So this I thought was interesting. We do get a very cool shot of the slasher using the blood from the man's brain to paint a symbol on the side of the car. Question here though. I just thought this was brutal and beautiful, but why didn't he use any blood from the pharmacist to do the same? Yeah, because in that scene he carves triple six into her forehead. Um, but he doesn't he doesn't leave another iconography, as far as I know. So it's it's I think he maybe just he chooses different excerpts from his known iconography to do at certain scenes. So her was a triple six on her head, and then this guy he's gonna paint the eye on the car. But this next scene, because it's where I think the tonal shift happens that I've been mentioning throughout this entire conversation. So we transition back to the slasher who's putting an ad in the classified on Sunday to get national attention. Did you? Notice when the slasher is giving the credit card information, the person on the other side, like obviously doesn't understand what he's saying, so he has to repeat it, and there's a comedic beat. This is so like I actually laughed out loud at this, but then I also thought, like, why are they showing this? Like, what does comedy have to do with anything that has happened in this entire movie? And now this guy's like popping in. I didn't understand it. I think this is a movie that like it like I I it's like he has a sense of humor. Yeah, it's odd. It's really odd, yeah. I and in fact, I feel like this is like one of the most odd scenes in the entire movie. I almost want to pause this and just watch it for the 10-second scene, and and then it's it's it's wild. Yeah. Um, but we return to Jane. Uh she's she's still here. Um, who heads straight to the top, the FBI, tracking down the agent responsible for the slasher case. She asks him if she can look over his shoulder and she tells him she's the agent whose husband was murdered. He asks her, like, what she's even looking for before declining her request to join the investigation. The reason this is important is because behind the man in charge is a woman named Becky Collins. And Becky overhears her plea. So she receives a phone call from agent Becky Collins, the woman from earlier. Now, does Becky have a crush on her? No. Okay, well, the two agree to meet and head to a lesbian bar for a couple drinks. And Becky tells Jane a few key tidbits about the slasher that he will kill for psychotropics, that he is taking psychotropics, he broke into a library and took only two encyclopedias, N and T, and that he's been staying at motels and leaving behind blood-painted symbols of satanic shit. So Becky decides to show Jane the symbols and like takes her to this motel. And we learn inside the motel room that there was a satanic killer named Joshua Reeves, who killed a bunch of parishioners in an attempt to summon Lucifer. And the way that they learn this, and we kind of cut to a scene a little later where we see a broadcast of Reeves being taken to prison, and you'll notice in this scene that he shares the very same left-hand tattoo as the slasher. And I'm wondering are they ambiguous on the point of whether the slasher is Reeves? So we we we see on the TV a news clipping, a news broadcast or a former news broadcast, and you see him, like you said, being walked out. He's got long black stringy hair, he's a little less stocky, but he's got an identical hand tattoo. They're in the exact same place. So I don't know if the director intended blink and you'll miss it, but then they shot this way too long, or if they wanted the audience to see this, and in which case you can there's two conclusions the audience will come to at this point in the film, if you're if you're watching it. Is one, Richard Joshua Reeves and the Psycho Slasher are one and the same. But if you we also learn in that broadcast that while waiting death row or being execution, Richard Joshua Reeves was shot and killed by a security guard while attempting to attack him. So then we think, oh, maybe he didn't actually die. Um, the psychokiller is a devout and copycat worshiper of Richard Joshua Reeves. So those are the only two conclusions you can really draw at this point. Um I wanna I want to put one quick point in here to like help spice up what you just said, which is the news footage they're watching is from when Joshua Reeves was really young. Yeah, so it was it was not recent. Exactly. So he was a teenager, I believe. So if you think about it, this guy could easily be this character. The ending treats this that's the only thing I'll say about if they they included the scene, and yet the ending treats it as a big reveal that the slasher is one and the same. And I don't I don't know why that's supposed to be revolution, uh revelatory, sorry, when they have this scene in the movie and revolutionary, really, for for for filmmaking today. Yes, change the thing. I want to say actually, it's funny when you mentioned like he was almost killed in prison, and then he was almost killed at the end, and we'll talk about that. Now I'm starting to wonder, and maybe I should save this to the end, but is there indeed a supernatural aspect to this character? Oh, uh, we find out why he wasn't actually killed. Oh, well, let's park it. Park it. Yep, we'll park it for now. Okay, awesome. So, like you said, so Becky also informs Jane that there were indeed 20 pounds of old school volatile TNT stolen near Kansas City. So the two managed to piece together where the slasher might roam next by studying his slow migration east, and Jane is in hot pursuit. Keep in mind here, it seems like no other police force but Jane seems to be in hot pursuit. Yeah, they it seems seemingly only her can put this together. And so this next scene you can easily leave this out of the film, and it would still be, you know, a near-perfect movie. But just joking, um, we cut, we cut, we cut back to the slasher who he enters a church to make a confession. So, timeout, right before this church scene, this is this is a I didn't I did not think this was important until later because this movie has a weird little subplot that I think got lost either in the editing floor or maybe this is all we're supposed to get. But Jane is driving a truck at night listening to some conspiracy theorists, mention 8-chan, which is hilarious, by the way, and that the government has been keeping criminals in secret military prisons to do experiments on, and they believe that the slasher is one of them. Wow. Now that you're mentioning that, doesn't that completely enrich the lore around this guy? Well, this is this isn't this cool. So it could be very cool, and as the the the thing I have a problem with with this movie is the ending hinges upon us knowing this information. Because I got to so when I first watched yes, it does. So when I first got, we'll talk about it more later. When I first got to the end of the movie's uh final scene with our slasher, which we'll mention later, I was like, This podcast should be called, we'll mention this later. Yeah. And we just never get to it. I I got to the ending of this and I'm like, what? What what was that? So I actually had to go back and like find out what that was about. And again, um, I will discuss this more, uh, lots more to come. Okay, cool. So we cut back to the slasher who enters a church to make a confession. What is the confession, you might ask? He slams a hollow spear through the priest's neck and begins drinking his fresh blood. So, like, this is certainly disgusting, and I completely just forgot that this is another display of like slasher, which is amazing. But I truly didn't understand this part. So I kept wondering like if there would be a supernatural aspect to this film, this could be that. But I didn't like you say, like, I don't think they do the best job of letting us know why he might be drinking a priest's fresh blood, other than the fact that he worships Satan and this is a satanic enemy question mark. Yeah, I think like there's just we for the amount of time I want to say this again and again. I know I'm saying this a lot and I'm sorry, but for the amount of time that we spend with Psycho Slasher, um we don't get insight at all into the things he does really, other than his final mission. And I think this is like an area that they could have expanded upon easily with this kill. He just the cannibalistic drinking of his blood. Like, does he think this empowers him? Like, I like I don't I think even if they had an additional scene here where maybe he he does he seems jacked up by it or something, like he's enthralled by it, or maybe it turns him on. I don't know. I think that this could have been a cool scene to expand upon. You know, I feel like I could fix him. I don't think you could, I think he'd probably kill you. So when Becky and Jane talked, like we said, Jane learned that she can pretty much narrow down exactly where the slasher would be along the highway, and she does strike gold. She learns that there was one gentleman who checked in to this particular motel named Mr. Reeves. She learns that he's in room 105 and she begins her pursuit. Now, for the next scene, what I would like to talk to you about is more of the procedural aspect of this. So when she enters the room, Andrew, she does not check behind the door. And do you know what I learned in Silence of the Lambs? Clarice gets in shit for not checking behind the door, and the officer goes, bang, you're dead. And it's like, that's the first fuck up. And that really bothered me for some reason because it kind of makes her out to be like a little bit of an idiot. Yeah, a couple things here, too. If she's in a dark room, I would have immediately opened the curtains up. Like quickly with my left hand, shoot the curtains up, get some light in the situation. Also, some backup, maybe. The fuck? I don't know. So he obviously must have heard her key card because she goes in and there's a shower on. She goes in, no one is in the shower, and it turns out that he was luring her into the washroom and ends up like bursting from this closet. This is another example of her back is completely turned to the closet for like three seconds. I actually so I actually I like this scene a lot because I actually like the way they had her fight in this movie because he is 6'5 and fucking enormous, and she is tiny. But I like this because there's three separate sequences here that I thought were very intelligent fighting, and I believe that if I was a 6'5 hulking monstrosity, I feel I would would hurt me. And that's first he picks her up by the neck, and you see for the first this is really one of the few times in the entire movie where he's got his raw animalistic strength on display. So he she basically, like, throughout this whole scene, royally fucked up her chance to take her other shot. I will say, I think the thing that becomes like increasingly annoying about this movie for me, or at least frustrating, on first watch, I was very frustrated by not the first time she shoots out the back of the Mustang. Like, obviously, that's a very like common theme that's happened in like action films. But the fact that like this time and the time at the mansion, she just can't seem to like she keeps making like really silly mistakes that land her in trouble. And they kind of make her seem stupid. And those I don't appreciate. Like, that's what I didn't like about like this particular, you know. Anyway, I don't know if you notice this, but she noticed on the table a circled ad in the classifieds from MNO. Can we can I backtrack here really quick? Yeah, yeah, of course. So this is a scene. I I've this has also been talked about by I think I've seen it talked about in the in a couple reviews, but there is a this is where I think that something happened in editing where they filmed a bunch of stuff and also film stuff they didn't film a bunch of stuff. There is jarring, and I this I think this is the number one scene in the movie, jarring editing here. We go from a kinetic, fast-paced action scene at the motel. She's thrown out the window, just to kind of bookend this here, finish this off. Um, I know I don't want to beat this scene to death, but she's she shows herself, oh, she kind of strains to get up, a little bit injured. We hear sirens. Our killer here quickly grabs this stuff and breaks out the back window. It cuts, does two weird cuts here. It cuts to there's no chasing. Yeah, there's there's no chasing whatsoever. There would be a chase scene here. I'm sorry, but she's not dead, and she's still conscious. She would get up and chase him, and there's sirens, like they don't even they don't show any aftermath to this scene at all. The next we see of her, it's a non-consequential scene. You're talking about the more important stuff here, but I'll just say for the editing purposes, we cut to her looking doing some more little research in a in a library or something uh of this killer, and it's like what? How do they get from the scene? Like, you can't just pluck a scene like that, like put that this action scene in and not show us some aftermath of him getting away and her relentlessly trying to find him. Yeah, like she would be hot on the scene. And like you said, they do a scene where like he he casually walks up to his new car, what gets in and just casually drives off. And like, dude, I'm sorry, but like even the lighting, the sun is different in the scene, and it it's like they filmed him getting into that car inconsequential to the fight scene. Like, it's like a different scene. Like, it doesn't look like it's anywhere near that motel, it's like suburbia again. You know, I'd be good. Sorry. No, no, go ahead. Sorry. I'll just say, like, I just she says over on her cell phone on the radio, she says, I got the I got the psycho killer, whatever, in this room. I need backup, whatever. She calls for this, and we hear sirens. So, like, it should be a big deal for him, a very, very big deal for this killer to get away at this point. And and I fully believe he could. They could easily write this guy is a force of nature, and I'm fine with that. I just wish we had more showing how he got away. I agree. I also you bring up a point that I thought was interesting where I kind of feel like daylight does this movie a disservice. Absolutely. This mode, yeah. I I fully believe this. That's what a good point. I actually know, right? Like, so like you you actually drew this comparison earlier. Remember, you you brought Batman? Yes. That entire movie, other than like a couple scenes, it feels like a noir film because it takes place almost exclusively at nighttime. And I think this is a movie, again, that could have taken, I think should have taken almost exclusively at nighttime. Yeah. Especially with the color palette. Like it would have been. It would have kept me in the film. You know what? The reason I brought up that Batman film earlier, which I love, is because it maintains this rich dark palette throughout its entire runtime. And so even if there's an action sequence, you're not being flooded with outdoor daylight. And I think there's a scene at the mansion later when he has his second encounter with her, where the daylight does a huge disservice to the cinematography. And that's where, like I said, like that's where I feel like the tonal shifts from the first act to the second act are pretty drastic. And I don't enjoy them. So okay, going back to this. So in the classified ads, the slasher finds an ad for MNO. And you'll remember that before her and the slasher get into the tussle in the motel room, she sees a circled ad in the classifieds for M and O. So lo and behold, Jane discovers the very same ad and quickly learns how to decipher it. And both her and the slasher now have a confirmed telephone number for all the fellow believers. And so later that evening, the slasher makes a phone call and is invited to Mr. Pendleton's house. And later that evening, when he arrives, he's greeted by Pendleton's assistant Marvin, played by Logan Miller. And you might remember Logan Miller from his Tour de Force in the Scout's Guide to the Zombie Apocalypse. So the Slasher's entire goal here is to connect with other true believers. And when he's brought inside to a dinner party, he's introduced to some folks like doing drugs and eating Chinese food, and you kind of already get the impression that this might be some fuckery. So we learn we learn that uh Mr. Pendleton, uh, played by Malcolm McDowell, he says that he's a great magistration. And he also says that Satan has a hold over the world, that oil executives are draining the earth of every last vestige, and that it's the golden age of human depravity. And I think what I learned here is I don't know if you notice this, but like what he actually is is like a farce. He's like an archetype of like rich, white, powerful idiots, like hosting eccentric people under the guise of spirituality. Yeah, I think it's very clear with the the clientele that's at the table, the Chinese food, and his love of hearing his own voice talk that like you're you get the sense, oh, this is just these are a bunch of phonies. Yeah, and it's like we I don't know if you notice this, but we briefly cut to the slasher like clenching his fists. Yeah, and I believe like this is the moment that's meant to show us that he's thinking the exact same thing. Like he definitely went in thinking like he was going to connect with other occult members and quickly realizes that this is just pure fuckery. Yeah, I think, or maybe he or maybe we could say he he also that, or he came here with the aim of gaining some information, but didn't realize just how phony these people would be. That's true, but like why would he need to go there to get information? Like, why the information that he's looking for, you could Google. Like, I don't even understand why he needs to go there for quote information. Yeah, this I I it's just seems like a contrived plot point for McGuffin to like kind of get this information for this random dude who lives on a house who's you know what I mean? Like just yeah, it seems very convoluted for the information he ends up gaining. It seems very complicated that he'd go through this to get it. Like but that's what I'm saying. Like, so this is where like I keep mentioning this like fucking tonal shift, but it's like, why are we like I love the idea that this is why it works? It would work if he's look if he's there to connect with other true believers and as an aside requests information, and during this side quest, he learns that these people are phonies. That to me works. But if it's just to get information and just to like have an aside of this like ridiculous, rich I just think that doesn't work for me. I think I think what's happened here with this is like I think maybe in trying to keep this killer's endgame secret for a bit, we also get no insight. I've said this before, I've said this multiple scenes now. We don't really have any insight to what is truly driving this man. We're assuming he's a Satanist who engages in these killings and the drinking of blood because he's just he thinks this is like his connection to Satan or something, but we don't know because we we don't get insight into this guy. We spend so much time with this killer in scenes. I just wish they had done more with his character. Yeah, I think you're right. I think that's fair. So we we've been alluding to this, but like the slasher does tell Marvin he needs some information, information to quote, help us all. He needs the person's name who does a specific job in a specific city. And when this happened, I was like, huh? Like I didn't understand me at all what was going on. Me neither. I was lost too. I think you're I don't I think you're supposed to be, or like unintentionally, anyone will be lost here. Right? So okay, so that that's kind of sort of his introduction to the great magis. So we do return to Jane briefly, and she receives a call from the slasher who lets her know that on the 28th they'll be opening the gates and to give his regards to her husband. Ooh. So now we've got a little bit of a plot shaping up here, which I you know, great. So this is where, and we've talked about this a little bit. So I've I think the dinner was like I said, a humongous like tonal shift in the film from gritty and atmospheric to like a little bit silly. But this next scene, like, really takes us there. And so the slasher happens upon a ritual that Mr. Pendleton is holding in his living room. And obviously, what's happening here is like they're just like doing drugs and having sex like a bunch of fucking idiots, and then like pretending they're Satanists, I guess. And he channels his Jason here. Yeah, he totally does, but like we folks, we know that they're they're they're banging, we know they gotta die. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, but I think he he looks at it, in my opinion. He looks at it like they're taking the piss out of his religion. Absolutely. Honestly, this is like I know you're probably talking about this some more. I'll just say this is what should have been a very fun bloodbath with lots of gore. Uh, the I this should have been a one of the big scenes in the movie for his kills, and even the impact of this scene and the weapon he's using, it just lacks any kind of weight to it. It doesn't, I hate to say this, but it's lit up. Like it's daytime outside, huge disservice. Like, why they made that decision literally can be none other than we didn't have enough time. And we need to like use these people at this particular like having an orgy, a ritualistic Satanist orgy during the day is pretty fucking unsexy. And then you get these kills that occur that are also, like you said, it's a missed opportunity, but also why did the cinematography change from like slow, gritty, atmospheric to like slow motion axe pedaling with fake blood, with a bunch of naked like that? Doesn't make a lick of sense to me. And it's it's strange here because as you watch this scene and he first delivers the axe blow to the first female victim there. I thought it was something funny or cool is gonna happen. I want to say funny, like in a good way, where she was gonna go flying or he was gonna chop her in half or something. And then we have the woman, the brown-haired woman, she's praying, she holds the cross upright, making me think and I think maybe this is her forsaking Satanism and praying to God to live. Um, but I think this should have been the most brutal kill by him. Like basically, you're you've already insulted me by doing this, and now you're gonna pray to the God at a Satanist, you know what I mean? Um I think and he just like chops her in the side of the neck. I would argue that's probably lethal, but it lacks impact. This should have been like I've seen like the more cheaper films have been made with so much more brutality with axes kills that like I just feel this should have been a very fun, gory. Can I can I bring up two things? Yeah, two things. One is this you brought up the Halloween kills scene earlier. Yeah, to me, that is one of probably one of my favorite brutal murder scenes in modern film. Like, I just love the way it's filmed. I think you brought up like some really great points around that. This would have been an amazing opportunity to give us a brutal slasher psycho killer in a very atmospheric way. And I think the second thing is when you watch Kill Bill and she slices her way through the crazy 88, at the end of that scene, there are people like uh like all over the place. And these people, like you say, they just die, like it's almost like you could touch them and they would fucking die. Like it I don't know, like lots of lost opportunity here, I think. And then the I guess the the kind of cherry on top of this shit sandwich cake is that he kills, so he kills Malcolm McDowell's character, Pendleton, from behind his throne that he's like pat he's like in and out of consciousness on, and we only see the top of his skull. And I thought this would have been a great way to use cheap, I'm sorry, but a cheap special effects artist could have made this work where you just see the top of a skull, they could have used a paper mache or some kind of fake skull and have it blow up with blood, but instead it's another CGI skull crush. It's like, oh come on, like just give me give me something here. I didn't mind the CGI of it all. I think what really fucking kills me on this film, and like what really bugs me now that we're talking about it is the shift in lighting and atmosphere. Like, I just actually fucking hate that. Sorry, I'm gonna go on record. Like, I don't, I that's what really pulled me out. It's like I was enjoying this movie. I can't tell you how much I was enjoying this movie until we got to this mansion period, yeah, and just started to like go like uh fuck. Okay, I want to let you know though, the writer Walker he confirms this by saying the slasher is written as a true believer who treats satanic teachings as literal gospel, viewing casual or fake occultists as posers who deserve punishment. And I think that modus operandi was pretty clear here, right? Yes, yeah, I think so. Like they're taking any he even says to uh there's a brief little thing right before he kills these people. He says to uh the acolyte, Logan, you said his name was played by Marvin Marshall Marvin? Oh yeah, sorry. So Marvin, I don't know why, I don't know why he thinks this, but the slash is like, I think you're a true believer, like get out of here before I kill you, kind of thing. Um so I think that's more evidence of the fact that he respected, like he he he believed that Marvin was a true believer, which is why he let him live, whereas everyone else is a huge phony. Yeah, and having looked back on that, I I sort of agree. It seemed like Marvin was a really genuine, maybe like you said, though, maybe it's just because Marvin treated him with kindness. Yeah. And he wasn't like a drug using, like fucker, like he wasn't part of the orgy. He wasn't like using Satan as like a griff party tool, you know. Ugh. We could go on about fucking religion and griffs, can't we? Um, anyways, so uh okay. The slasher begins pouring gasoline about, he notices something, and it alerts him to someone else outside the house. This confused me because he was sort of getting ready to like burn the place down, but I guess he notices like a flicker in the window. Yeah, so this is a scene that doesn't I I guess with window refraction, maybe, but the point is they're trying to make is this is that her sniper rifle scope, so her rifle scope catches the sun glint, projects it onto the window, but then also reflects it back down the stairs onto his mask and his hand. I so scope glint is a real thing that could happen for sure, but to for it to bend to to reflect two separate ways, it'd be different if he was looking at the window and then sees the glint and ducks it as a bullet whizzes by him. I that would have been awesome. But instead, somehow it like it hits the window, then goes back down into the house on it. It's very contrived, that's all it is, but this is also contrived. For some reason, he goes up the stairs to a particular window and like holds his mask out as like a decoy, yeah. But anyway, like I could beat this to death, but like very contrived, and it's just there to set up that like, yes, Jane is back to attempt another shot, but she does indeed hit the mask, but as we learn, the mask is a decoy, and so the slasher escapes and not only rams her vehicle into a ditch, but shoots out her gasoline tank, rendering her like fucking useless yet again, and that's like three of three of her like not being able to catch this guy. And not to go like too deep into this, but like at this point, are they not painting her out to be slightly inefficient? Yeah, this is where like again, I they just in my opinion, they needed more direct confrontation like that motel scene. I think there should have been much more of the uh the cat and mouse aspect to this. Like, I don't even know why she got into the truck in the first place. Like, why didn't she run across the lawn? Why didn't she perch somewhere? Why didn't she aim at his vehicle? Why didn't she like there's so many things? And again, like like you said, like, you know, with cinema sins, like you don't want to like, you know, highlight or pull apart every single problem. But the problems with her attempt to kill him just add up to like being illogical, yeah. Like even from a script perspective. Like, I don't understand. Well, especially from a script perspective, they're they're really missing. I think giving these scenes more, I guess, legitimacy in terms of what she's trying to do in terms of trying to stop this guy. Because she shoots at the window, hitting his mask, and then she like you said, why you would have full view of the yard, his car, and you have a rifle. You have tons of range on this guy. Like, I don't understand the need to get close with the vehicle and try and like, I don't know. It was she was gonna try and head his vehicle off. I think I think you're right, but I will say this. We said this word earlier. I it's contrived. I think it's just that's the word that sums this scene up, just contrived. It's also like a little bit slapstick. Like, why are you in anyways? Whatever, girl. Fine. You know what? At this point, I'm like, you deserve to be in the ditch, girl. Like, if that's how you're gonna act, then you don't I don't know. So before we head into the big event, I have a couple plot points here that unfold as Jane regales the police with her epic failure. So she is convinced that the slasher is headed to Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, to the church where Joshua Reeves murdered his victims. She's convinced of this because of the cult following that has occurred since the murders, including those found in the death metal community. The slasher is using Reeves' name and wants to finish it there. And she also knows the date because the slasher mentioned the 28th. So those two points propel her into this like final showdown with the slasher. And I actually appreciated that. And she does a really good job of convincing the police that this is going to happen. Yeah, I'm like, they do actually show up. Like, like, I think they're like, we finally have to like, yes, she's fucked up twice, but she did. Andrew, can we just break the fourth wall here and just say, like, why is she the only fucking police officer that can catch this guy? I know. She's found him easily, like, she's found him at two separate locations already, and the cops have not found him once. If she's flubbed it twice, girl. Yeah, if she had backup, maybe. Like, I'm yelling. I'm just like, what the hell? Yeah, I just feel like why when you set up some of the guy's house with a rifle, wouldn't she call for police backup? Like, I do feel like there's a case though where like she keeps telling them. Actually, I think this is the only time she's talked to them outside of Becky Collins. Like, no, I don't think she's had before she takes the shot. You know, we know she sets up outside the mansion with the rifle. I just think that she should have called for backup and they would have gotten there sooner. But the reason I bring up that is because, like, do don't aren't they like in a position where they don't really believe her, right? Like, they think she's kind of cuckoo, a crazy woman. Police would show up regardless to a ma like, hey, there's a killer here with an axe and a gasoline tank. I I don't know about you, but they have to they even if they don't believe you, they're gonna go to that call. Well, that makes sense. Well, so we do we are going to have our big finale, Andrew, in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. This ending got a lot of flack, and as we talk about it, I am curious as to you uh your opinion, of course. So we cut to a random couple entering their home through their garage, and they're startled by the presence of the slasher who asks Leonard if he loves his wife. Do you love your wife, Leonard? Do you want to play a game? So this is the man he was searching for who does a specific job in a specific city. So at this point, you're kind of wondering why this scene exists. We'll find out later. But simultaneous to this, Jane is perched on a roof overlooking Joshua Reeves church, and she's convinced the big March 28th event is going to occur. And I thought this was interesting on second watch. So through her scope, she reads the letters 3MI on the church window, and this kind of causes her to do a 180 getting a closer look at the nuclear power plant in the distance. And suddenly, for whatever reason, like it becomes clear to her that all the symbols all over the motel walls, like the 3MI, the 28th, the nuclear symbol, it kind of all clicks into place that something is actually gonna go down at the power plant on Three Mile Island. Yes, and important to note here, like there was a real um for people who don't know, there's a real partial nuclear meltdown um in 1978. Yep. And in the script's logic, the killer doesn't just want to murder individuals. Like at the church, there were 13 parishioners. He views like a nuclear meltdown as the ultimate satanic ritual capable of delivering mass widespread devastation to the material world. Yes, and he also this is like his big thing, and he also says I can't tell you chronologically where it fits, but he also says that melting a hole through the earth, like melting a hole into the basically into hell, like an actual gate into hell. I mean, you gotta be doing some psychotropics to believe that, right? Okay, so the slasher does gain entry to the plant because as it turns out, Wilkins is the man with access to the master control room, and this is kind of where I feel like the entire plot feels like a bit comic book to me. Yeah, I I fully agree. This this penultimate, this final act that he wants to do, like I think the idea was like to make the stakes a lot higher than you might think this a movie like this would ever infer. You know what's weird though, and maybe you can comment on this. Like, I feel like there are zero plot points to get her to that conclusion. There really is like this, yeah. Like they did a pretty good job of this, in my opinion. Um and it's also a fun fact, fun fact here. This is supposed to occur. It's said in the movie at some point that this is gonna be the 28th anniversary of the three miles, three three miles island incident. And that would make the film set in like 2007, I think, or 2000, yeah, think 2008. Oh, when it was written. Yeah. Maybe that's why they can't locate the Mustang, because it's 2007. Yeah, like this is where I would say, like, like I said this earlier, and maybe like if this movie had been set like 30 years earlier than now, like the 1996 or something, or or even 98, I could buy some more of this shit that he gets away with, but I think that it being current day with phones and cell and cameras and traffic cameras, I don't really buy it. But, anyways, or the one year the one-year anniversary to the three mile island, like it's the one year anniversary. Yeah, like so go ahead. Yeah, he gains he gains access to the plant and engages in a couple minor skirmishes here, right, with like our security guards in what's seemingly the most useless security I've ever seen ever. Like, I just want to say, and this is where I would have loved some budget here for him to go haywire and just massacre his way through in a more physically um badass fashion, I think. I agree, but also like how adept would security guards at a nuclear power plant be? Yeah, I guess you're right. Like, there probably isn't, like, there's probably not a whole lot of activity happening. Actually, do I guess I'm just totally wrong. I get my brother completely convinced me you're right. Sorry, sorry. I will take your point, though, that this could have been an amazing just slash your way to the door. Especially if you're going to feed into the argument that this is comic book like. This is a note to myself. And I think this would have been a this for me, this it would have helped the ending. I think this this just should have been an area where maybe he takes a few rounds to the shoulder or even the the body and he keeps going, like a few bullets. Yeah, like a relentless Lucifer infueled serial murderer, like a psycho killer. And I also think here, I think he at this point he should have ditched the trench coat and he should be in his full final form of the shirtless masked killer. Dude, every time, like when he takes that jacket off and reveals he's like strapped the tits with TNT, I was like a faucet. Yeah. So Frank, Frank, I have a uh hypothetical question for you. You're on a random blind date, and this this guy sits down across from you and he says, Look, I'm actually pretty cool, this kind of stuff. By the way, I do drink human blood once in a while. Would you continue to see him? It would depend on the sex. Like if he keeps it out of the bedroom, I'm okay. Let's let's be clear the human blood, not a factor. Okay, good enough. Well, what if he like what if he acquires it ethically? Who am I? I don't know. So he asks Wilkins to do one last thing and he'll let him out. Or don't, and he'll kill him. Of course, once Wilkins does the thing he asks, which is to disable the plants, core automatic safety overrides, the slasher just. Blows them away. And I I guess maybe not, you could argue not needed. It's another kind of off-screen kill. That one, you know, they do look at that kill through the CTV footage. That's fine. And so, like, that that I actually found to be quite sad. See, this is what I'm saying. It's like these types of like cinematographic choices are the ones where I feel like those are the choices that I like. Like, I like seeing they kind of return back to like the orange and black color palette. Like they sort of like ah, such a lost opportunity, anyway. I could go on and on about uh the filmography. Okay. Before proceeding with his plan, the slasher blazes like one last symbol into the ground with his blood to open the gates of hell. And outside, Jane convinces the police, the guy inside is the slasher, and he's on a suicide mission that this is not a hostage, hostage negotiation. And they confirm that no one can gain entry into the control room. But you know, Jane, the only police officer with any skills, discovers another entry point, and the officer she's with happens to conveniently have the keys for another entry point into the control room. So she enters, and this is where it all goes down. So she sees the slasher from above and the two lock eyes. Again, beautiful shot. This is her chance to get her one shot. Can you please explain what happens next? Because she shoots him in the leg, and then she shoots him in the hand that is holding the grenade. But what can you just just walk me through the logic here? Like I really this was lost on me. So why she doesn't go for the kill shot right away? I don't know. The only logic here, you have to logic your way through here, is she did not want the grenade to detonate right on top of the TNT, set the TNT off. But wait, did he not pull the plug on the grenade before she shoots him in the arm? Yeah, so again, I'm just gonna use this. I'm gonna use what I think is their paper thin logic. I'm going to guess here that in the movie's logic here is that if their grenade were to have gone off on his person right up close, the explosion would have set off the TNT. But because the grenade rolls about eight feet away, he only gets hit by the shrapnel and does not detonate the TNT. That is my logic for what they thought they were going for there. So, okay, I have another question then. Yeah. This whole thing like just confused me to high heaven. Why did she shoot him in the leg? And wait, this is my thinking. Do you think at the beginning of this scene, when she goes to shoot him, that she's thinking, I don't want to kill this man, I want to injure him? Yeah. I I don't I they should have kept this a lot more simpler and just had her shoot him in the head. Yeah, but they had to set up this stupid ending. Well, let's talk about that. Is there anything else you want to say about his death? Or his whatever happened in the movie? This should have just this this somehow, despite be the climax, just lacked oomph for me. This should have been a lot more satisfying than it was, and it kind of sucked, honestly. Yeah, I agree. I think this is part of the movie that I disliked the most. Again, shot beautifully, but I also like the idea. You know what I would have liked? I would have liked a confrontation, I would have liked a kill shot to the head. I would have liked just a little. It seemed to me that the ending, and why I said there were no plot holes before is because for some reason the ending seemed like they had just like wrapped this nice bow on like not a lot happened really in the last little bit of the film. Like I told you, not not really. I didn't it really does fly into this this finale, and also like it's a bold choice to not have the heroine like for the heroine not to be in close quarters with the killer as your finality into a like a slasher film. Very bold choice. So if you're gonna have her kill him through a window, I just think it should have been way more satisfying than him like you know, pop his head and blow his brains out or something. All right, so let's go to the Dane Umaw. So they return to the video footage of Reeves the day he was originally caught and being brought to prison. They link the most recent murders to him, confirming it was the actual Joshua Reeves the entire time. Yeah, and I think this was supposed to land as some big reveal. I just I thought that this was easily figured out again by that news broadcast and the tattoos, but I don't I think they missed some DNA in this movie to make that scene work, and I don't I don't think the reveal did anything for me at all. Do I smell a sequel? Alright, so as we so as I said before, when the the the police apprehend um uh psychokiller Reeves, um, he's still breathing. We hit we hear him audibly breathe. And we get some weird news reporting that's like it's like ambiguous as to what actually happened to him, which is really weird. There's no like press conference or like we just caught the most prolific serial killer of our time. It's just kind of like, oh, he may have been apprehended, he may be going to this prison. We don't really know. It's like, how do you not know any of this? Anyways, we got to a scene where Reeves still has his mask on, is breathing on the floor of an armored truck, and with a military convoy, he's not in a police or a prison van or prison bus, he's in some all-blacked out military convoy, and it says Death Valley, Nevada, and they're driving to a massive compound in the back, and for a second you might think, oh, maybe this is prison, but FaceTime I miss this. But because the information we have, we we even have a guard say, Welcome back, Reeves, because what what what is this film dropping on us? Oh, actually, that conspiracy theory earlier that Reeves was actually an escaped met experimental killer by the government is actually true. It's so good, yeah. And he's going back to the very place that they experimented him on. Is it Area 51? It's meant to evoke that for sure. It is absolutely meant to evoke Area 51. Um, and it's just like that's fine. That's fine if you want any movie that way, but like you can't have the link to this plot device be a little radio clip. Like, they should have set this up a little more. Like I said, we should have seen throughout the film him be physically almost supernatural to get to this point, in my opinion. Don't you oh my god, can I just tell you something? Yeah, the fact that you just mentioned this last piece, I think my rating is gonna go up. Really? Like, what a crazy comic booky, like fucking rich lore, like Arkham Asylum. Yeah, what a fucking fantastic way to wrap that up. Sorry, folks. I fucking love that. I think I could love that if there was just more setup for this, because we know that we are allegedly told, or we are told, not allegedly, we are told that Reeves was killed in prison, but it's very obviously figured out now that Reeves was shuffled off to a government facility to be experimented on uh where they train people to be these like unstoppable killers, and he just happened to escape, and he's a you know, he pleased he he he believes in his Satanist mission. Do you think that's why the shots that she shot him with never killed him? Again, that's why I'm saying I think I guess I do believe that he's like, I think they're insinuating in some way. Again, we are giving the film a lot of credit here by making these connections where the film does not explicitly set this up. And I am fine with the guy being able to take a grenade to the face, three rifle rounds, and keep going if he's been genetically altered or souped up on drugs to be like very impervious. His six foot super muscly stature would make sense about why he's so unstoppable if we had more of this to go on. I think. Oh my god. I this just gave me like an entirely new uh respect for this movie. Because honestly, we've talked about this before, but like sometimes when I'm writing, I'm missing little tiny plot points. But the fact that like this movie existing even without what you just said, I think is pretty decent personally. The fact that you just enriched it with this is epic. Okay, my final score for this movie is a seven out of ten, so it has not wavered. It it was going down, and then because of the Danube Maw, it's now back up again. What would your final, given all that we've talked about, final score be on this film? I would give this like a four or five out of ten. So five. Okay, perfect. I think I just I just spitballing here. We're I know this has been probably one of our longer podcasts, but to spitball some ideas I'd have. I'm not a writer, but I think they should have gone about some of the subplot in one of two ways. I think they should have gone all in on the fact that there's something more to him than just being a regular killer. Um, that I think that from the hotel, maybe he escapes in a a little quicker than a normal person could. Maybe he's a little stronger, maybe he takes a little more punishment. And this is why, in that last scene where he raids the uh nuclear power plant, I think we should have had him take an exorbitant amount of punishment getting into that room and still be fine. And I think we could have had some more setup for the fact that something fishy happened 13 years ago, more than just to him killing people, but we should have had some more DNA in this film to insinuate that maybe the reports of him dying weren't exactly accurate. Um, so for them to kind of drop the bomb of like actually he is an escaped experiment, basically, I just I wish I would have had more nuggets of lore for that. It's interesting though, because like I feel like a lot of people who review films or talk about this type of stuff, it's like you're damned if you give exposition and then you're damned if you don't. And it's like, I feel like this movie, you're right. If we had like maybe put the volume up on the exposition, just a tad like a tad bit on this, I would have been okay with this. But this to me, like having like an experimental nugget in here is exciting. Yeah, I think I fully agree with you. I just think the most egregious offense of this film, and I've said it about a hundred times, is the tonal shift of the film does it the most disservice. And I'll just end on that for me personally. Frank out. I'll say, I will just say that the cinematography is great. I like the moodiness of some of the that first act of the film, but ultimately this is a bit of a slog for me overall. And it ended up falling flat. So again, I'll stick with my five out of ten rating for this. All right, y'all. Well, thanks for listening. Uh, that is Psycho Killer. So join us again for our next feature of the film.