Obsession (Part 1)

This week, hosts Frank and Andrew discuss the supernatural future cult classic Obsession (Part 1). What happens when you get exactly what you wished for?! Please join us for a scene by scene break down of this iconic film. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hey folks, this is Andrew here. I know typically you don't hear from me solo, but this is a uh special announcement here from Frank and I have just had so much to say and there's so much to talk about in this movie, as there are a lot of layers to these characters and the themes here that this will be a part one of two. So this is part one, and we will be releasing a part two as our regularly scheduled episode two weeks from now. So please sit back and enjoy.

SPEAKER_01 0:53

Folks, today we're talking about the independent supernatural horror film Obsession. I am not alone here, Rover. With me today is my co-host, who by the way has been requesting we do this film since its release. Andrew, you finally get your wish. Are you happy about that?

SPEAKER_00 1:14

I'm extremely I'm I'm so excited to talk about this movie. I this is a movie that like when we had uh the May of Horror, I like the May month of horror, we had kind of like four or five uh back-to-back big horror releases, relatively big horror releases. And this movie was what was one I was the most most excited for, and it's because I every so often in history a movie comes out that people talk about and you hear all this crazy amount of hype about it. And this is one of those movies that lives up to the hype. This is one of those movies that will I think go down as another hereditary, another paranormal activity as being uh one of just like quintessential, awesome must-watch horror films. It's just magnificent from start to finish.

SPEAKER_01 2:13

Uh I have to say, I try very hard to like I guess when something's like really, really popular, I think it's just like in my innate gut. And this could be because like I grew up in like the grunge era, I don't know, but I usually rail against it. So like when I first saw this movie, I was like, I get that it's a good movie. I don't understand why everyone likes it so much. Like, are they overhyping it? And then I watched it for this podcast, and much to my own like innate chagrin, I I just feel like it's like near perfect in a lot of ways. And I'll give you an example, like even like the displays of gore in this movie are like so well done, and they're placed almost perfectly throughout the film. Like the sound design, like the soundtrack, the music, like the heavy synthesizer, the sort of like vibe, like her acting is crazy to me. And I I think it's just like the flow is really good. Like, I don't have a lot of criticism about this film, to be honest with you.

SPEAKER_00 3:36

I think people I mean, I how could you have known based on the there's a lot of like uh beginner or like newer talent in this movie in terms of not in just the actors, obviously, but I mean the um the cinematographer, like the he's pretty new in the he had never filmed horror before, as far as I know. Um, like there's this movie is very much lightning in a bottle, and uh everything in it is firing on all cylinders, the soundtrack is punctuates scenes perfectly. Um the uh like I said, we we I mentioned the cinematographer. There's some iconic shots that will be forever immortalized on posters in this film. Um, mainly because the the lighting work, the editing work in the editing room on the lighting in this movie is crazy. It's it's so well done. Um, and you mentioned earlier, you mentioned I mentioned this too. We talked about the hype with this movie. This movie had a good amount of hype to start with. It did. And I actually have a good comparison here. I saw this twice in theaters. So I saw it uh opening day, and I saw it about two weeks in when it was starting to get like at this point, the hype train was like in full effect. Every weekend was earning more money than the last. Um, so I was two weeks in, and I the thing I'll say is it uh it definitely attracted. I think this movie attracted people who maybe not would normally not go to theaters to go see this movie. I'll just finish my one point here is that um kind of a kind of a bad thing in my case, a little bit. So my first viewing experience, obviously, everyone was there, they wanted to see this movie. They were clearly horror goers. Everyone was it was an intense movie, everyone was quiet. My second viewing was a like even more packed theater, and like people were laughing at certain parts, and dude, that's like my number one pet fucking piece, man. Eventually, eventually, though, I think the movie still got to them because about halfway through those last went away, they died. And I think this movie, like, despite some of the uncomfortable scenes, that maybe people who are not used to watching horror or like an actress act in such a way that would make you feel uncomfortable. Um maybe they had just finally resold on it or something. But yeah, that was my I think you're right.

SPEAKER_01 5:56

I feel like as you're watching it, if a movie truly is captivating, like truly, it will captivate the audience. Because on my watch, I did not go see this right away. I think I waited like three weeks or so. And when I saw it, it was in a packed movie theater and every single person was quiet. And the only time they laughed was right at the beats where they were supposed to, when she's in the bedroom, when the money rains from the sky. Like there are certain things, and I think this movie I always complain that like movies try and inject humor where I don't really think it's necessary, but there are a few scenes peppered throughout this film where they add a little levity because I think at the like the bottom line of this movie is this is a study about a woman who is possessed and tortured, and it is utter, it's utterly sad to watch. And I think when I first saw it, I didn't realize like how heavy that felt to me. And then when I watched this thing, because I was like pausing it, I was taking notes, I was writing the script, and I really felt like this girl, like all the times that she is like breaking through the possession to like ask for help. Yeah, I never and being denied, I never really caught that on first watch, like how tortured and sad she is trapped inside this wish. And I I just think that character study alone is what makes it just so good.

SPEAKER_00 7:41

Yeah, and the the this breakout star here. I know she India Navaretti was in the Superman and Lois show. Um, she was in Trap House. Um, I I have to be honest, I had not really seen either the movie or that show. Me either. Um, I will never watch a CW show anymore. No, me either. But I just I wonder, I'm very curious to see her career in that. Um, I'm curious if this is a case of a perfect storm. This is an actress who is who a director knows how to wield like a knife through through, you know, like knife through butter. Like, I'm trying to use the better analogy here, but like, you know what I mean? Sometimes you get an actress who like her best performance, and I'm gonna actually, I think you can probably name one yourself if you know what I'm talking about here, but um, an actress that when they're paired with a certain director, puts out their best work, yeah, yeah, exactly. So it's like Uma Thurman, for example, like no shade, I love Uma Thurman and other stuff, but she's so good in Kill Bill, she's so good in Pulp Fiction, yeah. And it's like that performance, it's like there's certain directors or or some people just know how to pull that out of an actor or an actress, and uh I I'm I'm so curious because that acting that she does in this movie is it is in absolutely incredible.

SPEAKER_01 9:03

You know what? The only actress I can think of, and maybe people can weigh in, but is the I think it I have it listed in this script, but the woman who plays the character in Smile 2, that is the that's the only other I think it's Naomi Scott. Yeah, that is the only other Oscar parallel I can think of in like modern horror history, even classic horror history, like the fact that like these women, I don't know about is it indie or india? It's indie. It's I indie. Yeah, it's indie. Indie. So regardless of like their performance of what happens with her, the what Naomi Scott didn't get any nods, didn't get any like accolade, like women who outperform in horror, they don't get any recognition. But I think this one will, but like just two outstanding performances in like the last year that I've just been like blown away by.

SPEAKER_00 10:01

I mentioned it before Hereditary, which now goes down probably in everyone's top horror list. Yeah, you have to uh sorry, Tony Collette. Yeah, how the how did she not get nominated in that role?

SPEAKER_01 10:16

Yeah, that's a big bone of contention for Horfans, and it's the dinner scene in particular that people highlight, and it's like, I don't know, you know why the Oscars is fucking bullshit, and it's like these movies that they pre-select as like Oscar buzz, and the story has to be like really impactual indeed, and I get it, but like this film is deep and she deserves anyway. I don't want to speak too soon because you never know what'll happen. Like, she may get like multiple nods, but Naomi Scott didn't, and I think that was like a big loss for for her personally.

SPEAKER_00 10:53

Yeah, I yeah, we've that's a movie I want to cover one day too, but um they you're these actresses in horror are just they're absolutely crushing it, and we've had crushing. I think not yeah, I I think not enough people talk about smile to like even amongst the movies.

SPEAKER_01 11:10

No, they don't. You know what's funny? I okay, when you saw smile too, you know how like usually your taste in movies is like mid. What the fuck? You're like, oh that's so good. I'm like, you know, no, this is this is our taste of movies.

SPEAKER_00 11:26

No, shut up. This is our taste of movies because Frank actually uh he sold himself out earlier in this uh in this little rant here. Uh I like stuff, and guess what? Most of the people most of the stuff I like, most people like, and that's could be a plus or a minus. But Frank, if it's too, if it's too popular or mainstream, nah, it's probably not gonna be good for him.

SPEAKER_01 11:46

So I smell basic personally, but you know, whatever you call it, you call it taste, I call it whatever. No, I'm kidding. I I will say when you said that smile to was like really, really good, I couldn't believe it. Like, honestly, like I was like, I don't, I really want to cover that movie because I absolutely adore it. And when I watched it, I watched it in the theater again, quiet theater, captivated audience. I was like, Andrew is correct. This is better than the first one, yeah, times two. Yeah, and absolutely that actress fucking crushed it and pulled me right in. And so I go what? I was with you. I was like, Yeah, it's really good. I do think you're right. I do think I rebel, you know, it's partially because I was a gay teenager in the 90s. Like it is like ingrained in me to rebel against pop anything. I hate pop music, I don't like popular movies, but it is funny because like a decade later, I'll revisit these things and go, like, yeah, okay, I'd love Mariah Carey. You know what I mean? Like, I didn't, you know. All right, do you want to just we have a lot, like I'm talking like a megaload to cover.

SPEAKER_00 12:51

So, do you want to get into it? We should probably, yeah, I agree. Otherwise, we'll be here for the next half hour, I think.

SPEAKER_01 12:56

Okay, all right. So uh a little format change here. Uh, shout out to uh a dear listener for this. But I'm going to do all of the research up front, and then we'll get into the script. And then, Andrew, I know you know a lot about this movie, so yeah, you you do you as we go, but I'm gonna go through mostly just how this came about. Did you know, firstly, that Curry Barker is not related to anyone famous? I knew that, yeah. Lest you think because I thought Curry Barker, I thought this guy's like a Nepo baby.

SPEAKER_00 13:35

So I had actually before this movie came out, I had actually I knew of Curry Barker from um TikTok and Instagram. He has a uh they have a uh channel that's a comedy skit channel only, and it's it's Curry Barker and his friend Cooper Tomlinson. And uh they make these just like one-minute, two-minute skits, and they're some of them are really, really funny. Like they they really some of them kind of have pull on that um like uh uh I think you should leave humor with uh Tim Robinson. Like he's got one skit, for example, like Cooper walks in and Curry's on the on the bed, and Cooper's like, hey man, we're going to the beach. Are you gonna come? And Curry's like, You want me to come? And like that's it, just plays on the fact that Curry's an idiot thinking he's taught about orgasming. And Cooper just asked him to go to the beach. It's it's really funny channels. When I heard this guy was making a full horror movie, I went on YouTube and watched some of his horror shorts. I haven't watched Milk and Cyril yet.

SPEAKER_01 14:38

But you know what's interesting?

SPEAKER_00 14:40

Have you seen The Chair? That's no, I I started I did that's one of the shorts I have watched.

SPEAKER_01 14:47

So that's a short that I watched a long time ago in 2023. And that what it was really, really freaky and like really, really well done and really dark. And if you watch The Chair, you can see obviously this movie is like that on steroids, but you can see like the makings of that like dark, horrific filmmaking. But it it's actually I I found it was like one of those things that stuck with me over the years, and so when I read that, and and I'll get into like specifically the chair, but when I read that he did that, I was like, oh, that makes perfect sense to me. I didn't know about any of the comedy stuff, which actually is kind of crazy when I think about it.

SPEAKER_00 15:30

Like, yeah, the uh the the comedy, the comedian to horror director pipeline. We got some good ones like Egger, uh sorry, uh uh not Eggers. Uh who's the guy who directed Weapons Barbarian? Tarantino. No, uh holy my brain is not working right now. Perkins, the guy who directed weapons of barbarian, uh Zach Kregers. Zach and Krager. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 16:00

Hold on, man. Sorry, I need to like my head is so I don't know. I'm not good. I'm not good. I'm a big horror fan, dude.

SPEAKER_00 16:08

Zach Krager. I was like, like Robert Eggers? No, no, Krager. I've never heard of that. He was in so Zach Krager directed Weapons Barbarian. He was in, I'm pretty sure he was in the Whitest Kids You Know. The comedy, that comedy tree from like years ago. Like, just absolutely hilarious.

SPEAKER_01 16:25

I mean, we're all multifaceted, so that makes sense. All right, are you ready to get into some background? Oh, yeah, let's do it. Okay, I wanted to talk about how this came about. So, in a video interview with Australia's Triple J Radio, director Curry Barker confirmed that the initial concept struck while he was sitting on his couch watching the classic Tree House of Horror 2 segment from The Simpsons featuring the cursed monkey's paw. In a feature interview detailing how he crafted the script, Barker noted that writing the project was a massive personal endeavor that he had to carefully balance while working full time at a coffee shop. So this guy was a barista. That's awesome. I know. I like that, you know what I like? I don't not that like I have nothing against Nepo kids. Like, I mean, if my parents were famous, I'd hope they'd throw me a bone. And I do think that those kids survive off being talented. Like, if they're not talented, they're not gonna make it. But it is nice to see someone who is just hustling and like his hard work paid off, and now he's set for the rest of his life. Not that he made any of the $460 million, but whatever.

SPEAKER_00 17:38

Yeah, I did hear quick though, the the financing company. Uh, I I don't know how much they are gonna, but they they publicly came out and said they'd be kicking back prof the profits to the actors and crews. What? Yeah, I'm pretty sure. So they're the company that financed the the company that provided the money for them to make this movie. Um uh one of their, I think I'm almost positive. One of the representatives say that they were gonna kick back some of that money the to the uh uh I don't know if it's just curry, I don't know if it's just like the main cast. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 18:12

Because the thing is, everyone's talking, this is what I think is so ridiculous, and people are like, this money made so this movie made so much money. It's like, yeah, but it's like the people who were involved in creating this movie for under a million dollars didn't see any of that money. So why are we celebrating? But I get it, it's good for horror, it's good for like the community, it's good for their careers. I understand, but like sometimes I I wrestle with that, so that's really good to hear that they would get a kickback because they fucking deserve it.

SPEAKER_00 18:41

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 18:44

But andrew, how did they find Curry Barker? Firstly, like I said, Curry is not related to anyone famous, lest you think this landed in his lap without the hard work that it takes. So, producer James Harris discovered Curry Barker after watching Barker's viral self-funded 2023 psychological horror short film The Chair on YouTube, which had amassed over 5 million views through organic online word of mouth, similar to our podcast. Harris and his parker Mark Lane at UK-based T-Shot Productions actively monitor video platforms like TikTok, internet sketch channels, specifically to find indie filmmakers who can generate immense tension with zero budget. So Harris initially contacted Barker to offer a modest budget to adapt the chair into a full-length film. But Barker used that exact introductory meeting to reject the offer and pitch obsession instead. When Barker sat down face to face with Harris, he expressed deep gratitude for the opportunity to turn the chair into a movie. However, Barker boldly told Harris, I'm really excited about this alternate idea I've been toying around with. Can I pitch you that instead? Harris agreed to listen, and Barker dropped a precise, minimalist elevator pitch. He said, It's about a guy who has a massive crush on a girl, but he's completely friend zoned by her, which I cannot wait to talk about. He makes a supernatural wish that she would love him back. She actually does, but she becomes violently possessive and obsessed. That's the movie. So anticipating the risk of rejecting Harris's original adaptation proposal, Barker laid out a fully completed script draft, a comprehensive plot one pager, and a highly stylized aesthetic lookbook for what would officially become obsession. So he came prepared.

SPEAKER_00 20:44

I think he, I think, yeah, I think you have to. Like, I mean, like it's amazing that he did that, but if you uh he he might have thought that this was my only shot.

SPEAKER_01 20:53

Yeah, probably for sure.

SPEAKER_00 20:55

I would probably come with a loaded deck as well, man.

SPEAKER_01 20:57

But how smart is that to be like, I don't really want to do what you guys want me to do, but I have this even better idea. You know what I mean? Like that that's pretty bold.

SPEAKER_00 21:05

That's that is bold.

SPEAKER_01 21:06

Yeah, super bold. So, according to a feature of the Hollywood Reporter, filmmaker Curry Barker turned down a $2 million budget to alter the script for obsession. Barker refused to make the protagonist a traditional hero, choosing instead to maintain the film's focus on the horror of stripping away a woman's free will. You know, I we will really, really get into this, but one thing I really want to break down with you when we get to it is Bear. Oh, yeah, that yeah. The like obviously, but I I I just I I like honestly am at a loss to even describe the complexity of that character.

SPEAKER_00 21:56

Yeah, they we we I know you're in the background now, so I won't say too much here. I just say like he yeah, he comes across as multiple things. And I think there's a there's there's so much to say here. And I like that. Yeah, that's all I'll say right now.

SPEAKER_01 22:16

Sorry, I don't want to. Yeah, he's not no, no, sorry, I didn't mean to even get you down that path. But yeah, he's definitely not a traditional hero.

SPEAKER_00 22:23

And I'm glad like the the part about Barker not wanting to make him a traditional hero fantastic because we've kind of seen the rise lately of like, and I say lately relatively, of like incel horror, and I'm loving it. And um uh this movie, wow, that it really encapsulates that. So I'm I'm totally yeah, I have uh okay, I have so much to say.

SPEAKER_01 22:47

Okay, I so okay, well that's how that's how the film came about, and I know there is a myriad of information out there that people can have access to, but these are just the bits that I thought were like really interesting. I wanted to talk a little bit about the creative philosophy and the backstory. So one thing I like about Carey Barker is throughout this process, he's been able to maintain the integrity that he he keeps his intention raw, like he doesn't allow anyone to come in and fuck with that. It's like what he wants to do is what he is going to do, and he's very successful in executing his vision. And I think one thing that I thought was really cool was during a feature profile with a New Yorker, he explained that he actively fought against explaining how the movie's supernatural charm actually works. Barker decided that mapping out ancient lore or rules for the item would distract from the real horror of human selfishness.

SPEAKER_00 23:59

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 24:00

I love that because we've talked a lot about this, where it's kind of like show, don't tell. And I don't think like us understanding why that works or or how that works really does anything to enhance the plot. I think it's really good when it's shrouded in in this universe. This is real.

SPEAKER_00 24:23

And Corey's he's said this himself in interviews. Like, he's dropped enough little nuggets in there. Uh, and he's used the word nugget, I think. Um, he's dropped enough little nuggets in this movie relating to the lore that gets us making this podcast. It gets people talking about the what could how could it work, or how is it so much fun to settle on what you how you think it works rather than being told because you don't. This is one of those things that that is knowing how this the one wish thrill of magic works is not essential to this plot at all. No, it's just it's a fun little it's a fun discussing the mechanism of action is just a fun topic, but yeah, we we absolutely do not need to have this over-explained, and and I'm glad that he stuck to that.

SPEAKER_01 25:10

Yeah, it's like knowing where Art the Clown came from. Like, I don't really give a fuck.

SPEAKER_00 25:14

Yeah, same.

SPEAKER_01 25:15

Like I'm I'm here, I'm here, like I'm here to be like entrenched in the world of this universe, and I'm only here for like a slice of it.

SPEAKER_00 25:25

Even uh like Christopher Nolan did this, right? Like with the Joker. Uh the Joker tells multiple origin stories because it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter where he came from. The he he is, but he what matters is now like what matters is what is happening as a result of this character being there. And then in this movie, what what matters is the result of this dark magic that um um is is located on these in these one wish willows.

SPEAKER_01 25:53

100%, 100%. So on the one wish willow, so the actual physical prop of the one wish willow wasn't designed by a Hollywood prop host, Andrew. Barker designed its unsettling look completely from scratch in collaboration with his mother, who works as a professional graphic art designer. And did you know that both his mother and father worked on this film and he lovingly refers to them as Nepo parents?

SPEAKER_00 26:28

Yes, his his his mom like lovingly helped with the like you said, uh the one-wish willow prop itself, the all this the writing on the on the back. Um the tabby cat company, the tabby is initials for them, right? Yeah. Um, and then the father actually helped helped, I'm not saying he was solely responsible, helped decide this film's uh ending. Yeah, because they sh they filmed two different um endings for this movie.

SPEAKER_01 26:59

Oh, you'll have to tell me about the other one when we get there, because I did not know that. You know what I find so funny about this is that like the one wish Willow is only $699 and the clerks retains immense destructive power, yeah, and like and the clerks just seem to like know that this is a thing. That's we'll talk about this. I thought that was so hilarious.

SPEAKER_00 27:23

It's like duh. This is what's so cool about the this, like we just talked about this, like, and it's so well done. Like, the fact that, like, hey, over there for $6.99 is a nuclear missile. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Feel free to pick up a couple, pick one up for your friends. Um, the destructive power or the world altering reality altering power of these wishes. Um, you see it in this movie twice, and um is it's so cavalier how every how the clerks are about it. Like it's super cavalier how they act. And like how and they also know how like we'll talk about the scene because it's it's pretty much wrapped, it sums up the movie in that scene, but um, it's just so funny how cavalier they are about selling this product that gets absolutely for for $6.99.

SPEAKER_01 28:13

So like that to me, I thought it was like just a chef's case.

SPEAKER_00 28:16

If if if the if the modern day um capitalist uh billionaires got a hold of that, that'd be like a ten thousand million million dollar item, right?

SPEAKER_01 28:25

Not like that would be like fr that wouldn't even be that actually kept it. Yeah, it would be like even the most powerful, yeah. All right, I wanted to just talk one more. I I wanted to go into um Indy's performance for a moment. I what I was gonna talk about this later on, but I I wanted to talk about this because this in and of itself, to me, is an entire thing. And I want to break down the differences of how she acts based on like what part of the film she's in. So this is the brilliance of this actor. So according to Forbes magazine, the breakout role as Nikki Freeman has been widely hailed by critics as a masterclass in psychological horror. So industry analysts have even deemed her work Oscar-worthy, placing her alongside all-time great genre antagonists. So the article goes on to say that there are four tiers to Nikki. And as we go through this, Andrew, I want you to take note of these because I'd like to actually highlight them when we get there. So we have pre-wish Nikki. So we have a bubbly, animated, and realistic friend dealing with her own life. And this to me ultimately bubbles up the sadness because who we meet at the beginning is just so sweet and kind, and definitely just seems like a genuine babe. We have a post-wish Nikki, a deeply infatuated partner completely stripped of her own personal agency. We have the unhinged shift, so a woman starting to slowly lose her grip on reality until the final transformation of the full antagonist. I would kind of argue against this, but anyway, a violent, terrifyingly possessive presence. So we see like four tiers of gradual escalation.

SPEAKER_00 30:40

And this movie this is one of those movies that feels um short in some ways because uh this progression of her of these facets of her pre-wish, post-wish, and then the insane Nikki toward at the end, it the transition's so good, and like it's so you're I found like I was so lost in like what just in every scene of this character that like I was like it just I don't know, I'm trying to say this, but like this movie just moved along at such a good pace because of the way this performance worked.

SPEAKER_01 31:15

I think you're right. When she's on screen, you're definitely engaged, and I think it's just like her facial expressions, the like the escalation, like the level, the volume changing what she says and how she snaps between characters. And the thing that like there's one scene at the party, uh I know we'll talk about this, but she does something crazy and then kind of realizes it and justifies the reason for it. And it's that like justification that I wanted to like tap into a little bit when we get there, but uh I just think like I I'm sure I'll say this again, but just the the layers that she provides as a character are are pretty pretty crazy, pretty cool.

SPEAKER_00 32:09

Yeah, it's just this is a I mean everyone who's seen this. If you you're watching this, you've probably seen it. It's just so wonderful to in a terrifying way to witness this performance, and it's so good that like she not only do we get some amazing jump scares delivered by her, punctuated by some good soundtrack, but like the jump scares that she provides are not jump scares, they're just like her acting out that like makes me shudder in my chair. And I it it also the scenes where she's not on camera, but we're in the house with Bear are so filled with dread because you're like, what is she doing right now? Like, yeah, I I want the camera on her right now. I need to know what she's doing. Um, and sometimes you'll hear like rummaging in the background.

SPEAKER_01 32:55

Yeah, it's you're like, what are you doing? Yeah, what are you doing back there? Yeah, hanker, hey. Yeah. Okay, Andrew, how do you think obsession was received?

SPEAKER_00 33:10

I already know this, Frank. I don't, this is not a guesswork here. This is uh this is top dollar uh audience scores and critic scores. This is a 90% or 95% all the way.

SPEAKER_01 33:22

I will say it has two percent less than oddity. Really? So it does have it. Yeah, it has a 94% based on 308 critics, and on on Metacritic, which uses a weighted average, assigned the film a score of 77 out of 100 based on 37 critics. So it indicated generally favorable reviews, which I think is yet where's the critical? I think it's just I don't know. To be honest with you, I don't know why Metacritic is so like wildly out of whack. Even with Odity, it was like not a very high score.

SPEAKER_00 34:02

That's just so weird because this this film's got four-line universal praise from critics. So where are these other critics being pulled from?

SPEAKER_01 34:09

Yeah, it's not like high school musical. This is like a really, really good.

SPEAKER_00 34:13

And by the way, for anyone listening, I'm I'm generally curious that this is not me, like, you know how some fans get mad when they see their thing they like is not well liked by other people. But that's not what I'm what I'm getting at here. I'm I'm generally puzzled here that they found that many that is only pulled around 77 out of those. Based on 37 critics, that's also a smaller pool size by a large margin than RT.

SPEAKER_01 34:38

Still, but that's weird. 37 is a lot, and for it to garner that, you know, sometimes I wonder, and not to go on a little tangent here, but sometimes I wonder if critics need to. There's gotta be some of that in the world. Or like that sort of vibe where I'm like, you can't like there's no universe in which even if you resist the charm of this movie, like just on face value, this movie would at least get a nine out of ten. Like, this movie's a near perfect film, and I find that very strange. Yeah, these fucking losers anyway.

SPEAKER_00 35:26

Yeah, yeah. I this movie's this is a perfect movie for me. Uh perfect 10 out of 10? This is it, this is about 10 out of 10 for me.

SPEAKER_01 35:35

I have a question for you though, and this way it sheds some light for the audience.

SPEAKER_00 35:39

But like, what else is a 10 out of 10 for you? Uh let's see. Terminator 2. Oh, that's aliens, the thing. Uh, I would say X-Men Part 1. Matrix. Um, horror-wise, though, hereditary. Um I'd put uh what other what do I figure out? What did you think of Basic Instinct? Frank, I gotta be honest, I don't think I don't think I've seen it. What the fuck? I don't think I've seen Sharon Stone and Basic Instinct. Are you okay? Well I don't think I've watched it. I think you're gonna I was gonna make forget it.

SPEAKER_01 36:24

I was gonna say it's a very sexy movie for a straight guy, I think.

SPEAKER_00 36:30

Yeah, no, I I know it is. Um, but obsession, yeah. That's this'll be my first. I think this is my first 10 out of 10 movie that we've uh reviewed on this uh podcast.

SPEAKER_01 36:42

Yeah, for sure. You didn't give child's play 10 out of 10, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_00 36:46

I'm only laughing because like child's play is a good one.

SPEAKER_01 36:48

I don't think you gave the collector 10 out of 10, Andrew.

SPEAKER_00 36:52

Yeah, you're I know you're gonna scoff, I know you're gonna scoff at this, and I uh but this has made it into my top 10 horror films of all time.

SPEAKER_01 37:00

Well, I think I knew that.

SPEAKER_00 37:02

Yeah, easily. I wouldn't.

SPEAKER_01 37:03

I'm happy, I'm glad. I I not for me, for some reason, like I said, very, very, very good movie, but it doesn't touch, like, even for me, I know this is a little weird, this movie to me doesn't have the same impact as Oddity, for instance. Like, I I think some movies, for whatever reason, just hit me in certain ways. I will say the thing about this movie that got me, and I've noticed lately, like, you know, Stranger Things did this, and like a lot of movies in the 21st century, like since 2020, have done this, or TV shows, where they're using really, really solid synthesizer music to create these really good vibes based on the scene. They could be happy, they could be like a little sad, but there was a few times in this movie where the music just made it that much better. Yeah. And what was my point? Anyway. Um, okay, let's talk numbers quickly because this is the thing that I think is the most, this is all I heard about online or ever. So CDC confirmed the production budget sat at an exact $750,000 USD, making it the highest grossing film in cinema history to be produced for under one million dollars. I'm sure you knew this already.

SPEAKER_00 38:33

Yeah, well, I remember when I it was when it was slowly rising up there, like it it beat out ET for like having a successive weekend that was that was made way more money than the previous two or something. And then it beat eventually it crossed the paranormal activity record because that was only made for like the same amount of money, I think, or less, 100,000 or something like that. Yeah, so I I it was fun tracking this movie's like record breakings that it happened with um over time.

SPEAKER_01 39:00

Speaking of record breaking, box office tracking published by the Hollywood Reporter detailed how word of mouth transformed the film's theatrical life cycle. Well, opening to a strong 17 million, it famously defied typical box office gravity by spiking to 27 million during its second weekend on its way to a global lifetime haul crossing 448 million dollars.

SPEAKER_00 39:30

Yeah, just on the that's crazy. So crazy, and like it was so cool because this movie released uh May 15th in theaters, and they had originally set a stream release date of June 2nd. That was the original tentative. Yeah, that was the original tentative date to put this on streaming services was only two weeks after the um the theatric release um for the movie. And I like that must be that must speak to like you know, it's a indie film. Maybe they just thought it'd only make you know a few million, then they'd call it a day. But I remember checking the theater like well like into July, and it was this movie was still being shown. It was still in theaters here when it hit Prime. Like when it hit when it was oh yeah, yeah. I think it came to I think it hit streaming July. I think that moved to July 3rd or something like that first week of July or last week of June, and it was still in theaters. I'm like, that's so incredible. That's still putting butts in seats.

SPEAKER_01 40:29

Like you said, films, especially horror films, significantly dropped during their second weekend. However, obsession famously grew by 30% in its second weekend. Yeah, so it broke a bunch of fucking records, especially for a horror film. And I think that's why it's lauded so much because it's like horror fans this means more horror films, right? This means like people are interested in horror.

SPEAKER_00 41:02

It's like duh. And not only that, but like this is it's not just that, it's like this shows you that people will show up for good original IPs that are good movies. Like people want to see good movies, and I love, I love that this, you know what I love so much about this year? I love that this movie crushed it and then Moana remake live action fucking dumpster fired. And it's like, I'm so sick and tired of Disney putting out live action remakes of their like it's just so low brow, yeah, boring. It's uncreative, uncreative, and then you have a fledgling director come out with an awesome uh supporting cast of actors, and they put out something that people that put butts in seats that people couldn't stop talking about. The social this is one of the few cases where I will applaud social media. I can't stand social media, but the amount of word of mouth that like that you know, Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, YouTube can get around now. This movie just exploded and like it's just wonderful for the movie.

SPEAKER_01 42:07

And might we say that immediately after Backrooms came out, and it also crushed it so that was like a sland slam this summer. And we don't just sorry, I hope the actors get out of 448 million, these people need to be paid. That's what I think.

SPEAKER_00 42:30

Absolutely, like the that's like a brain. That was the other thing, too. About that obviously, whenever like a movie does this well, there's gonna be like I think they was like the graph, I don't know if the graphic artist or someone came out and said, I only got paid this much. It's like, yeah, but like that's what everyone signed up for. Yeah, no, true. No, you're absolutely correct. Yeah, if you had a residuals deal, that would have been amazing. But like everyone signed up making lower amounts of money on a very small budget, and yeah, it was financed for a low amount of money, but it was still financed by a company who gets the kickback. So it just that's not it's true, yes.

SPEAKER_01 43:04

I shouldn't be so harsh. I just think when people are like talking about you know massive financial success in our capitalist system where very few people are making a huge amount of money, I sometimes and you know, like I will say, like the argument is like you know, the studio gets paid and but you know, it spawns other projects and it spawns careers, and there's all these like there's great positive aspects of it, but I I I just think overall I when someone's talking about this horror movie making a lot of money, I don't care, I guess. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 43:42

Yeah, isn't this another Blumhouse? Uh like didn't Blumhouse grab onto this? Um yeah, I I'm sorry, really quick here on my notes. Uh I think Jason Blum made 17 million off of it. Like, okay, awesome for him.

SPEAKER_01 44:00

Yeah, cool beans.

SPEAKER_00 44:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:03

All right. Andrew, are you ready to get into the obsession of it all?

SPEAKER_00 44:08

Absolutely. Uh, a lot to talk about here. I have a lot to say. So um, we're already uh, I mean, we've already talked about so much about this movie, but now we are gonna talk about the movie itself.

SPEAKER_01 44:19

I have to say, so Andrew and I are gonna break down this film scene by scene. So if you haven't seen it, pause, take a break, and come back and join us. That's my disclaimer again, Andrew.

SPEAKER_00 44:33

Yeah, uh, if you haven't seen it and you've made it this far, good for you. Uh, but go watch this. This is one of the best movies you will see this year.

SPEAKER_01 44:41

But also, who hasn't seen it? Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 44:44

Who has not seen this movie?

SPEAKER_01 44:45

Right? Yeah, okay. We open with a young gentleman, Bear, played by Michael Johnston, practicing how well he will confess his love for his longtime friend Nikki. He says he thinks about her all the time in every song he listens to. He decides now is the time that he would choose her over everything. According to his friends, and particularly one friend, Ian, played by Cooper Tomlinson, he would vomit at the sounds of this. It's interesting here because Ian says you have to be more savvy with Nikki. And we sort of learn later why he has such insights.

SPEAKER_00 45:27

Yeah, we're this movie. We're gonna see about we're gonna look at one of the worst friend groups of all time.

SPEAKER_01 45:35

You know, yes, it absolutely is.

SPEAKER_00 45:39

Like, don't get do not get me wrong here. This um, I don't have too much more to say about the actual monologue itself. Um, it's super cringe, but um my uh Bear here like a lot could have been prevented had Ian been an actual friend to Bear.

SPEAKER_01 45:58

A hundred percent.

SPEAKER_00 46:00

Yeah, I yeah, we we sometimes in these these pods, we you know we did it with the lodge, we we sometimes lay you know the the foundations of the film at someone's feet. I would argue that none of this would have gone into motion had Ian just been up front with Bear from the beginning about what was happening, but Ian is just a shitty friend.

SPEAKER_01 46:22

But I also wonder because like this is what I think. I think Ian and Nikki were on and off sleeping with each other, but I don't think Nikki was interested in Ian. No, so I don't so even if Ian said to Bear, oh I'm sleeping with Nikki, to me, that had no bearing on Nikki and Bear. Like, do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 46:48

Like, I don't know if Ian could have you let your friend humiliate himself in front of a guy who's sleeping with the girl he wants, you know what I mean? I think yeah, that's true. That's very cruel.

SPEAKER_01 46:57

Yeah, that is very, very cool. He does try and stop him like a million times, but you are correct. He could have just been honest. And I think the thing about this movie that what like and honestly, I have this written in my notes a hundred million times, is like, what does Bear do? Because he does nothing most of the time, and I think like this movie, like you say, people are victims of other people just not telling them the truth, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:22

Right? Oh, yeah. Bear Bear is yeah, Bear is he is an absolute coward with with uh we'll talk about this more later, but he he himself, aside from this Ian thing, even Bear has the opportunity to have potentially had a different outcome had he just also been willing to tell the truth.

SPEAKER_01 47:40

I mean, isn't that life though, Andrew?

SPEAKER_00 47:42

It absolutely is, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:43

So Ian, being an amazing friend, tells Bear to be playfully mean with her and to bring up freaky Nikki. P.S. Every piece of dialogue that I've recorded in this script is because it has bearing on what happens later. And the reason the script is so long is because it's almost like every single word someone says is important.

SPEAKER_00 48:09

Yeah, there's to the plot, I think. This movie's a lot of the fun of this movie is the dialogue, like it's it's the the exchanges with these characters are just are very quintessential, obviously, uh, to this uh movie. And so lots to say here, yeah. Sorry.

SPEAKER_01 48:27

So I I think what's really funny is the woman who Bear is practicing this on is the waitress at the diner, and and then she just gets up and goes back to work.

SPEAKER_00 48:39

Yeah, it's it's kind of really cute. It was funny because uh Ian's like thank you, like basically kicks her ass out of there. Like, thank you. Also, kind of a funny, uh fun little fact here. She's also a on TikTok and Instagram, she's also does comedy skits with like uh she's with like that a bunch of those crews in LA that do the comedy skits on social media. So it's cool that she got like a role little role in this movie. Nice, nice.

SPEAKER_01 49:07

So this next scene in the theater almost made me cry. Bear returns home to find his beloved cat Sandy deceased on the floor. It appears she's eaten some old medication belonging to Bear's grandmother, who has also died. Might I say, yes, this is sad, but this is Chekhov's medication.

SPEAKER_00 49:33

Yeah, right. Yes, it is. Yep. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 49:37

I I so what I wanted to ask you right off the top of this pod is sorry, just sirens going by.

SPEAKER_00 49:50

Of course. You're recording the middle of a war zone.

SPEAKER_01 49:54

Literally, I let if you came to my neighborhood, you'd be like, shit. You're like, Andrew, I'm here, I'm here, like a trying to record the podcast. I'm behind a burning vehicle. Like, I'm just thinking of that scene from Predator 2 in the beginning.

SPEAKER_00 50:15

This chaos is street to try to record this plot of enemies necessary.

SPEAKER_01 50:19

Okay, I have to ask you a question. Bear's grandma has passed away, and his cat Sandy has passed away. So, does this make it more confusing for us as the audience because now we have sympathy for Bear?

SPEAKER_00 50:37

No, not at all. Like, I think sorry, no, like it doesn't make it confusing. I mean, I think I think we should have sympathy for Bear here.

SPEAKER_01 50:49

But doesn't it make it confusing in the sense of like all the things he does like subsequently? Like, I'm like, I want to like hate some of the things he does, but then I'm like, well, is it like should I feel like he's not so his judgment is skewed because of these deaths?

SPEAKER_00 51:04

I would so I I would still stick to my answer of saying no, I would not say it causes confusion. Just I think multiple things can be true at once here. I think Bear can have sympathetic qualities. I think Bear, in a lot of ways, at least at the start of this movie, I don't think Bear is, we as far as we know, is yet to become this piece of crap, dude. I think he is a guy who maybe is in the worst way possible, seeks out his last ditch attempt at happiness by making a cruel wish. And because he's he's gone through some pretty heavy stuff. But I think he's still a villain, he's still awful for what he does, but he's also it also is sad that his cat died and his grandma died, and I'm I sympathize with him for going through that.

SPEAKER_01 51:59

But there's no way on earth that when he cracked that one wish willow, he knew that he was making a wish that would come true. Let's well let's spark this because all I'm trying to all I'm trying to say here is that it for me personally creates a little bit more nuance in whether or not I completely hate this guy. And at this point in the film, I feel very sad for this guy.

SPEAKER_00 52:27

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I at this point in the film for sure, but I I actually I think by the time I talk you through a few key moments here, um we we will both end up realizing how much we hate this guy.

SPEAKER_01 52:41

Oh no, oh yeah, for sure, 100%. So, okay, so Bear receives a call from Nikki, played by the fabulous aforementioned Indy Navarette, who begs Bear to come to Trivia later that night because she has something she wants to tell him. Now, see again, I bring this up because he doesn't mention Sandy to her, and I couldn't figure out why. He says he has some stuff to do and that he can't meet up with the friend group. He asks her what she wants to tell him, and she says she's putting in her two weeks that we're kind of running out of time, bear, and he might want to skip that stuff he's working on and come out. But he doesn't tell her about Sandy, and I find that really odd.

SPEAKER_00 53:30

Yeah, I think we kind of we kind of learn this a bit later, but he when he's talking to post this is like their their the date, the um before the titular freak out scene, like the not titular, but before one of the more our kind iconic freakout scenes at the dinner scene.

SPEAKER_01 53:49

Um I like literally had no idea what you're talking about because there are like 20 of those in this movie.

SPEAKER_00 53:53

But like the no, no, that scene very, very much got played on loop. Um, and but before that, they actually have what seems to be at first kind of a regular conversation. And um they do mention how Bear has been very much uh a closed-off person, even with his friends. But I I think maybe in he has the personality type, but he doesn't want to burden you know the girl he likes with like his shitty, sad stuff, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 54:26

But wait, but what but why I think it's so brilliant is because he tells Sarah right away what happens to Sandy.

SPEAKER_00 54:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 54:32

So it's like he's not a close, it's like he or maybe does want to shoot from Nikki then, yeah. Because when they order a drink at the bar, which we'll talk about, I have something I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna drive a point home here. So prior to trivia night, Bear makes a quick run to an occult gift shop question mark. I don't know what the fuck this store is to find a sir. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 54:58

Yeah, I I actually when I was writing my notes, I didn't know what to call it. I just put like hobby shop or something, like a green sink.

SPEAKER_01 55:05

You know what it reminds me of? Remember that uh remember next to the mall? Freya, yeah, that's exactly what that store is. It's like Freya, except there's a one wish willow. So yeah, he goes there though because he wants to find a crystal necklace to replace the one that Nikki dropped down the sink earlier to surprise her. And so while trying to find a crystal that delivers good vibes, he finds something else. The one wish willow. And I wanted to give these like nods throughout this cast about how wonderful the score is. Well, he sees the one wish willow. Beautiful synth music plays while this happens, and it's definitely used as a wonderful tool to get you to focus on a particular item in in the film. And it just like I cannot, that's the thing. Like, I I know I'll say this a lot, but I cannot like over what's the word, like I can't overstate how uh wonderful the the musical breaks are in this film.

SPEAKER_00 56:15

Yeah, the the the the score really quick, you'll find too and we'll probably both mention this throughout the whole our whole this whole movie that we go break down here, but the score and the cinematography are like a two-pronged attack. Like they're they're just the both those things, the sh the the camera work, and then also the score, really just this movie looks and sounds like a movie 20 times its budget. Like it's just it's so good.

SPEAKER_01 56:43

Also, do you notice the color palette stays consistently cool? It's such a like it's very red, it's very pink, it's beige, but it's like muted. This is a weird dark.

SPEAKER_00 56:56

This is a weird thing to say, and I don't know how else to describe this. This is one of those movies that gives me a cozy feeling. Yeah, me too, 100%. It's really messed up because like even my third time through, I was still like I was still like getting chills in my basement alone watching some of the horrific scenes, but like I still just feel so much comfort watching this movie because of the way it's shot and the and this and the and the soundtrack. I can't overstate the soundtrack, man.

SPEAKER_01 57:22

So he smirks at the idea of the one wish willow and decides to purchase it. So the clerk warns him don't come back complaining. People that open them come back and complain. He even says, giggling, does it ruin their lives? And the clerk responds with, or they die or wish they were dead. Yeah, and the two like the two share a chuckle and he leaves with the one wish willow.

SPEAKER_00 57:53

Yeah, this is I this is one of two dialogue exchanges that is is foreshadowed and giving you kind of the synopsis of what's about to happen to in this movie, and like it knows that obviously the movie knows that, but it's just really cool when Bear's like, Oh, it what it just does it work, and then he's like, or does it work and it ruins their lives? And he kind of smirks, and and like, and you're right, after she says, or they you know they they die or they wish they were dead, they both chuckle like bleakly. I love this exchange, and it's such a great way to tell the audience like what you're in for later.

SPEAKER_01 58:26

But the thing is, like, I don't know why I'm like defending this like decision about the one-wish willow, but there's no way in any universe in the cosmos that you would actually think something like this would work. Like, that's off the table. Like, it would be off the table that anyone would think this would work. So it's absolutely any decision he makes up until cracking that thing, I'm like, I totally understand.

SPEAKER_00 58:52

Oh, yeah, for sure, it's why the clerk scene is hilarious. It's why later when Ian you can be super angry at Ian, but that's why Ian doesn't think it's real later on. Yeah, who would?

SPEAKER_01 59:03

Imagine I told you that.

SPEAKER_00 59:06

Yeah, I don't feel like if you if you were in front of me like bloodied and crying, and you're like, dude, this fucking works. I might I might try to take something from what you're saying seriously.

SPEAKER_01 59:19

But wouldn't you be like, no, you'd probably think I needed to go to the hospital and get like an evaluation.

SPEAKER_00 59:27

I would take I would take something about you seriously in regards to there's something serious here.

SPEAKER_01 59:32

You're like, there's something serious, except for everything you're saying. Yeah, exactly. Okay, later that evening, we meet up with four friends at the bar. We got Bear, Nikki, Ian, and Sarah, played by Megan Lawless, who I absolutely love and think is gorgeous.

SPEAKER_00 59:49

Yeah, I think a lot of audiences agree here. Don't you do not get me wrong? Nikki's a dime, but Sarah, like Sarah's their bear, dude, and she like likes you, and she's so hot and she's so funny. Like, dude.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:02

But it's like if he doesn't feel like that or exactly, but I but it's true, it's like he she she is like the better. Although she says a few things later on in the film that I'm like, yeah, like I said, the pro girl.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:17

This friend group, I don't know what held together, probably Nikki. Probably, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:23

Or, you know, friend groups under pressure crack. So maybe they were fine, like they were kind of coasting, you know, existing, they work together, they go for drinks together, but this situation has like exposed these like vulnerabilities, which I think is another reality.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:39

Fuck, I love this movie, man.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:40

It's yeah, that's what I mean. Like, it's like it's it's firing on all cylinders, which is great. So Bear and Ian are mouthing words across the table. Bear wants to tell Nikki about his feelings tonight, but Ian vehemently disagrees with doing this at trivia night. That's his big excuse. Like, don't do it at trivia night.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:57

Funny thing here, I'll jump in here. One thing I'll say is like, I love the relatableness of this. Um, it's been a long time for me, but like I can still remember that feeling when I was younger, and like you like someone, like you know, now it's like it's like like like you meet people through dating apps, so there's intention already. So there's not so much the like, does this person have feelings for me or not? It's more back then when you're in like in college or high school, and then you or work or whatever, like sometimes these feelings develop naturally with people who are like your friends or they're in your friend group, and there's that like really nervous feeling of like I'm gonna tell this person, and it could like go either way. Like, so I I think that's a really relatable feeling that Bear probably wants to get off his chest now.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:44

Totally, totally, but I do think it's funny because like Ian's using the idea of trivia night as the reason for not doing it, but it's like I believe he'll use any excuse he can to prevent Bear from telling her. Yeah, I think so too. But I don't think it's because he thinks that Bear and Nikki will be together. I think he doesn't want Bear to be rejected.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:14

I think this is a person who likes things as they are. He has a trivia night with his friends, he gets beers, and there's definitely like that this I've seen real life, this happens in real life where like uh a man, you know, someone goes their their female friend and says, Hey, I have feelings for you, and they get rejected. And rather than like being able to like, you know, take a couple days and then move on, it's like it does they can't move past it, whatever, and they stop being friends. So I think he's probably that happens all the time. Yeah, he's probably scared of that crash out and or a crash out, or like he's scared that this they won't go to trivia the same way anymore.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:54

Yeah, I do I do actually think that is like a thing for him. I think he wants to retain the good times, yeah. Yeah, so Bear follows Nikki to the bar, and I want to call attention to something here. Like, this is the thing, there are small things that again, like I could be like, Oh, I'm gonna leave these out, but Bear orders a pina colada, and Nikki kind of makes fun of him, but and she is joking, but like I later wondered if she just looks at him as someone who is like neek.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:28

Yeah, and I don't know. There's there's some good discussion here, and we'll talk about the quintessential the scene that that I'll bring this up again. I'll uh that we'll talk about more about this is is the scene where Nikki confronts Bear on whether he likes her or not in the car later. But yes, I I can't wait to dig into that because but Nikki sorry, sorry, Frank, but I I think you might agree with me here when I say Nikki does some things or say some things that I think the audience can lean either way that she does actually might like him. That is my my thesis is that she likes him. Yeah, and I and that's the thing is like um she says here too, there's two things that happen at this at the trivia night scenes. Uh, there's one we'll talk about when they get outside, but she says, I like a man, I like a man who's or like I like my man who's in touch, I like a man who's in touch with this feminine side or something like that. But she like the way she says it is, I would argue kind of flirty.

unknown 1:04:27

Right?

SPEAKER_00 1:04:27

I don't think it's I mean, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:29

Yeah, I think every single thing she says to everyone feels a little flirty, though. Do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 1:04:35

Yeah, and that's fair. And and there's I there's I think like I have friends that are girls that like that are like that, and they just I'm like that. Man, I make people think I'm in love with them all the time.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:46

I'm like ordering a coffee, and I'm like, dude, I just don't their crotch, you know what I'm saying? Okay, yeah, but I think dude, I just realized I am Nikki pre-possession. Okay, obsession with Frank. No, no, no, pre-obsession, pre-obsession. Imagine is pre-obsession, just me living my life, just working, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:16

But yeah, I think the this little exchange here, I think, could highlight that maybe she she does or does not have some interest in Bear.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:28

I agree. I could not agree more, actually. I want to point something else here at Trivia, which I think is uh something we did kind of allude to earlier, but when Nikki and Ian leave the bar for trivia, Bear immediately confides to Sarah that Sandy died. And I think this is really important because he hasn't told anyone else. And I believe it's this like secret keeping that is the bane of this guy's. Issue. But it also highlights like his relationship with Sarah. And that is also kind of ambiguous.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:09

And you see, Sarah hugs him, and she really hugs him. She likes oh, she fucking likes this dude. He's cute, dude. She's she looks good. She's got this like lacy outfit on. Like she she's like so your type, though. Like, well, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:24

On paper. I don't know. I don't know. I mean, I'm just thinking like who you've been with in the recent past, and it's not that at all. I was like, what? I was like, like maybe you're more like, I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:37

Um, but uh the I like like Sarah really presses herself into him. It's a lingering hug when she says, I'm sorry. But I will say, like, you can tell she like genuinely just feels for him here.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:53

Totally, yeah. She genuinely, like their relationship, in my opinion, is a genuine friendship, although it is a little skewed by the fact that she clearly likes him, yeah. And this becomes apparent like later when she gets her head bashed in, which holy shit. Yeah, all right. This is where things get a little weird. So the group depart, and Bear says he can take Nikki home. So this is also so important. So we learn in the car ride that Nikki is a writer and is writing a love story, and that Bear is the only person she can really talk to about this stuff. As they pull up to Nikki's, she asks Bear if he has feelings for Sarah, and he says he likes her as a friend. Nikki says when she has a crush on a guy, no one knows. As she exits the car and heads inside, Bear says, Good night, freaky Nikki. And she says, You know I don't like that. And she kneels down at the passenger side window and asks him bluntly, Do you like me?

SPEAKER_00 1:08:06

Because if you do, now is the time to tell me. Well, when Nikki's discussed the story that she's writing, um, she mentions that she's writing a story about love, and then Bear says, Love, so it's a romance. Because Bear equates the two together as a same thing. That's important. And Nikki says, No, it's not a romance, it's a love story. Bear says, Isn't that the same thing? And so I love that exchange because it really does highlight how Bear looks at things versus like how Nikki looks at things, and also how this movie is a is about love, but contains no romance. Like, I I like that exchange a lot.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:51

And uh I also think it's interesting because uh going back to this, like when she asks him, like like given the context that you just mentioned, when she asks him if he has feelings for her, she says it in a way that seems like she feels the same way. Absolutely, but I but this is where like I'm not sure because, like you said, like she does things that are you know, friend zone. We hear that she's friend zone him and looks at him like a little brother. So, all that to say, like, I don't want to like try and figure this out for myself, but there's nothing figuring here. Yeah, I think my point here is that it's just like so we're nuanced as people, and you I don't know. Maybe in that moment, she has this endearing, she realizes he likes her. Maybe she, I don't know. There's so many different factors that are involved in that.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:52

And I love this because that's what the director intended. Um, uh Curry Barker was says in an interview about this scene that yeah, I think Nikki could have had feelings for Bear here. He says that, and I love this because Bear they have this, like he tries like two or three times, and then he tries the stupid freaky Nikki thing. Um, which like he really he tried, but he's such a coward, yes, and he is a coward, exactly. He's such a coward, and Nikki sees what's happening here because she is an adult and she's smart and puts it to him. Like, she puts the puts him on the spot, shut up with all this other stuff. Do you love feelings for me?

SPEAKER_01 1:10:35

And Bear can't like this idiot, man, like can't bring himself to even be honest here, and it's just like, but I also understand because it's like we're all afraid of being rejected, absolutely. I know, and even if someone asks you that, like all the things you mentioned before, like the implications or the impact on the friend group, like being rejected as like a personal thing and how that might affect their friendship. Like, but you know what's funny? Having said all that, I don't even think that's why. I think it is just because he is a coward.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:07

I think so too. That's my point here is like, yeah, I think you're right. Yes, we all fear rejection, um, that kind of thing. We don't want to be hurt, we don't want to mess things up. And when a friend likes a friend they've been friends with for a long time, it can like you never want to make your friend or a friend feel like I was just friends with you, waiting the wings for this to happen, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:11:31

I think it's like good to like my philosophy is like be as honest as possible because if your friendship hinges upon this and you actually feel like this, and if you tell the person you'll lose the friendship, I think it's better to be honest about what you're actually intending.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:47

I learned this lesson to, you know. I learned this lesson personally, like a long time ago. Um, like I will like before when I was like dating, before like, you know, my long-term relationship, but before that, when I was dating, I would like I learned a lesson earlier on where I was friends with someone and I kind of like waited around a bit because like they were kind of like made it known they liked me, but not really. Um but I kind of learned like I would always be up from then on, and after I met like a girl um who I did have feelings for, I would just tell them up front. And if I heard a no, I would just do something else. Like I would not just I wouldn't keep hanging around unless I was like wanted to genuinely be friends with them. I would just be like, no, you know, we went on a couple dates. I I like you that way. I can't, I don't really want to be friends that way anymore. So I'm gonna take off.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:34

I've done that so many times where like someone has said that they're not interested. But I think it is you're right, it's it's how it should go. And he doesn't for whatever reason, he doesn't want it to go that way. He says, I I I think we're good friends. Oh my god, and the two beat each other adieu. Now, what does Bear do? He opens the one wish willow and says, I wish Nikki Freeman loved me more than anyone in the fucking world before breaking it in two. Now, Andrew, my philosophy here is there is no way in the fucking world he would have any belief that that thing would work.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:22

Yeah, I think this is just kind of a like, why the hell not? Like just but it's not like an evil act, you know what I'm saying? It is, it is not, but that wish itself is cursed. Like he can't know. Is that really Bear's? No, you're right. I agree. I agree. He could not know what was about. Can you imagine? Come on, man. But we get a clear look at Bear and his response to what happens. Oh, well, that's a whole other topic.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:51

Yeah, that's a whole other topic. Because there are countless times in this movie where I'm like, dude, whatever. Oh my god. Okay, we'll get into it. Okay, this shit starts immediately. So we see the iconic silhouette of Nikki in her doorway, yeah. And this is the first of many beautiful obsessive backdrops.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:18

Yeah, this is like I said, I mentioned this before. This is one of those iconic shots that will be on posters and stuff. Like this, there's so many good shots of this movie, and that's that is the one that was in a lot of marketing, is her silhouetted against the light of her porch, the porch side of her house. I iconic.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:38

She approaches the car and says, You said you had something for me. Maybe you want to come inside. She says she just lost her cat before correcting herself, saying, You just lost your cat. And we get we get a quick shot from as soon as she says that, we get a quick shot into the back seat of the one wish willow before he asks her if she's okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:09

I love the acting here. She's like, sorry, yeah, sorry, yeah. Like she gets caught in this loop. She does. And the the actress here, the this wish, this the way it's already manifesting as this like devoted feeling of like doing things to appease this man, and this like this going from a snappy alert woman to this like spaced out, like sorry about my cat, to like correcting yourself to like sorry, yeah. You know what's weird?

SPEAKER_01 1:15:44

Like I'm I'm struggling with like trying to explain like this one aspect of the film. Like there is Nikki. Let's take out normal Nikki from this conversation for a second. Let's just talk about like the possessed wish Nikki. She does this thing a lot where she will say or do something, and then she'll atone for how weird it was right after. And I don't understand what that is, but it is not only is it brilliant, but what is happening inside of that possessed person? Like, I that's the tension I like. I love it. What the hell's happening?

SPEAKER_00 1:16:26

I love to me. Like, I don't believe this is like an entity thing. I think this is a very much like this wish causes the feeling of love, whatever love Nikki could have, to manifest itself as its own personality, like its own devotion and love to this person are its own personality, and it doesn't understand, like this new personality doesn't fully understand how things work yet. So, like it's playing catch-up, but it does realize because of Bear's reaction, facial expressions, it trips up and gets things wrong, and and the wish Nikki sees it quickly, and it's like, oh, sorry. Like, and I love that. That's a really good explanation.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:09

Yeah, that's a really that's actually profound. Yeah, I never thought about that because it's a new personality. It's like a new, it's like a newborn creature opening its eyes for the first time. The only thing I'll disagree with you on is I don't believe this is just like the love she could feel like manifesting. I think this is like the reason I said this is an entity is because she says later, like she's sleeping. Yeah, and like and it makes me think that like she is held captive. Like I almost picture like a little room inside her mind where she is like in a birdcage or something. No while this monster like how cool is that?

SPEAKER_00 1:17:50

Like, I think you're neat. I think you're not wrong because also the director said something similar. He says that he he likes the idea that she's in some kind of like this like a purgatory realm or um some kind of you know dark void. And what I was saying earlier, I'm not saying I'm saying that like this wish manifests itself with what it grabs, whatever foundation it can grab from this person into its own personality. So yeah, I guess we could call it an entity, but what I mean is I don't this is not like a possession. This is like No, I don't think it's a possession in that sense, but there's some some other thing happening here behind the yeah, it's like there's someone driving the car, but she's the passenger looking through the eyes the whole time. In some ways.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:39

Is that a possession?

SPEAKER_00 1:18:40

Yeah, but I don't like I just don't want to equate this with like a like the def. Did you just give me the definition of possession and then tell me it's not? I just this movie, it just feels different than like it's not it just it just there's something I just like the way it conveys it differently in this movie, and I can't quite explain it that well. And I'm sorry I'm tripping over my words here.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:59

You're like, oh, it's blue, and there's these like white, fluffy things in it.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:04

I'm like, sky, like no, it's not the sky, it's like there's a sun that comes up. Um during the no, I've got it. But I all this to say, I won't harp on this anymore. I just love the way the actress conveys this other form of herself. It's so good.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:25

I know, and this like this is second-tier Nikki. This is like post post-wish Nikki. She says to him, Come inside and have some drinks. We could talk about your cat. And for one split second, she seems to snap out of it and says, Wait, wait, wait, what the fuck? I'm acting so weird. And that and yeah, sorry. I was just gonna say, like, what I love about that is that illustrates exactly what we were just talking about.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:52

Yeah, and I um will probably I I think I've I think I've written written down every time she does this, but I love that she does real Nikki snap to just there for a split second.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:05

Yes, and you'll notice that those become less and less and less throughout the film.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:12

Yeah, but do you do you see what I mean here? Like, even there, what does she say? What the fuck? I'm acting so weird. Yeah, so I that's Nikki. That's not I know. So the point of the point of me saying that is like she does say at that time, I'm acting so weird. Yes, exactly. So, like, this is what I mean. Like, yes, this wish, it obviously culminates in this entirely different freaky Nikki. But at this moment, I think it's like not really so much a possession as this witch twisting Nikki uh into a separate version of herself that takes the wheel.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:47

I agree, but and I think we're saying the same thing, but this right now is like a very early stage of that transition where she can come back in quickly.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:55

Yes, you're right.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:56

But those she ends up being like pushed out completely. Yes, yes, as it you know what I mean? Yeah, exactly. Because it because this is different. Her saying, oh fuck, I'm acting so weird, that's her, like Nikki. Yes. Whereas later at the party, when she says, Oh, that's like a story, when she lies about something that she's done, that's not Nikki. No, not at all. That's like that's like just in what we just said, like, how crazy is that? It's like it's so interesting.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:28

This, yeah, it's just movies just dripping with things to talk about. So much it's just funny. Like, you watch a movie like this, and then you watch something like Chase in part seven.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:43

I was gonna say something like way better than that, but that works too. I was gonna say the new final destination movie. I just thought the acting was really shitty. Anyway, okay. Then this is another thing this thing does. It lies. She says she doesn't want to be alone right now and begins to frantically sob, telling Bear her dad is dying. So Bear agrees to take Nikki back to his place, and this scene comes to a close. But I wanted to highlight two quick things here. One, it manipulates, and two, the amount of emotion that it expresses through like sobbing and screaming, that must be just physically exhausting for the host, which is what I'm gonna call Nikki. Like it it's so tragic what is what is happening to her physiology and the damage she does to herself.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:42

And what I love about this, what I love about this like wish, Nikki, is like it does things real abusers do. And this is one of those, this is a small little thing that happens. Um, so I'm gonna read it's a big thing, but later on, we're we we get some more manipulation all the way to like the classic, I'll kill myself if you leave me. So I love like this movie, it just it's so much has so much fun with taking the tropes of relationships and just putting them on blast for the everyone to see, and I love it for that.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:17

What else is weird is like I never looked at her from the perspective of an abuser, but you're right, yet so is he. Like, it's yeah, yeah, that's that's I don't want to get ahead of myself because there's one scene in particular later that I just he says something to her like much later in the film, and I just want to crack his head off a wall because I just oh I know it it displays it displays how like vindictive he really is. Anyway, okay, so let's talk about their first time encounter. I'm starting to give the script like little chapters. So Bear lets Nikki sleep in his bed and he decides to sleep in another room, but he can't because Nikki asks him if he can sleep with her. She repeats please three times before Bear agrees. And I ask at this point, like, there's no way in which he would know that the one wish willow worked yet.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:25

Correct? No, and we're gonna get there's this we get the scene later where he it tells the audience, he puts it together that it's working. And here, no, I think here he thinks he knows she's acting bizarre, but we obviously he thinks maybe some other stuff's at play.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:43

Okay, fair. And I'm gonna continue asking that question because there are things I want to like monitor and engage through this movie, and I think one or this, yeah, this film is one, I want to talk about the tears that she goes through because I think those are super interesting. I want to talk about the nuance of his character, and I also want to talk about at what point you think he kind of like is like, oh, I need to accept that this is really fucked up and and is real. Yeah, all right. He crawls into bed with her and she snuggles up to him. God, I needed this, she says. She says she's sorry about his cat. She begins to kiss him. The two start making out, and there's a moment where she snaps the fuck out of it and says, What the fuck? Before almost immediately rebounding to say, I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:33

She flies on the bed, too.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:34

She flies off the bed. This got me the theaters. Me too. I this was a jump back.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:40

Actually, I jumped back in my seat, like it just me too. The music is so abrupt here. Like, you have this romantic music for a second, it builds to a like it's off key first second, and then she does this. It's like, oh my god. Yeah, and she this is how like if I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:01

I again I'm trying to like call upon his judgment, but uh I don't know. But like there's a clear difference between this and her kissing you, and this, like like you said, in the theater, this like this scene and this abrupt shift just got me. It just like was like a jump scare. It was it was crazy.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:22

And I want to highlight too, it's important though that she strips down to her underwear before um she asked Bear to get in because Freaky Nikki several times, more than even the film Let's On clearly uses sex to lure him back in to make him think everything's okay. Wait, are you calling this character freaky Nikki? Yeah, I am, yes. Okay, okay. Is that like a thing? So yeah, I thought I absolutely I'm gonna I've heard other people call it. I will call possessed Nikki freaky Nikki. We'll just call her that. Okay, okay, cool.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:54

Because you said that twice, and I'm like, who is freaky Nikki? But I yeah, okay. Well, she says she's freaky Nikki later, but yeah, you know, we'll we'll see why. I want to talk quickly uh about lucidity with Bear. So, according to our view by Variety, the most tragic layer that Navarette brings to the role is Nikki's temporary moments of lucidity. In brief, agonizing seconds, the real Nikki breaks through the spell's hypnosis, screaming and crying out in horror as she watches her own hijacked body commit violent acts without her consent. I'm I mean, that quote moves ahead a little bit, but I wanted to bring it up here because it's such a glaring example of her snapping out of this trance and snapping back into herself for a moment. Yeah. I also I think this is really interesting because Bear freaks out and says, like, you made me feel like I did something you didn't like. And I don't know if you noticed, but like this is a theme that. comes up where and later on when they're talking at the door where he he doesn't want to feel like he's taking advantage of her.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:08

Absolutely. That's he wants he wants absolution from like feeling guilt at all about this.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:17

But wait, then I ask you again if he doesn't think the wish worked because he doesn't obviously like no one would think that in this universe. And he's like doesn't like you know he he didn't crawl into bed with her she went into bed she asks him to come to bed he says he doesn't want to take like you know want to take advantage of her like he's checking in is there any like problematic behavior on his behalf so far?

SPEAKER_00 1:28:51

So I would argue this I think Bear is able to hide in the fact that Nikki is saying the things she says and doing the things she does. And so Bear is safe to say oh this is all okay that's fine that's fine. And that would be fine if he had just met Nikki that week the day before but from what we know he's known Nikki a long time. I think I think Bear probably knows part of him that this is so abnormal to go from like we were joking around at trivia to her in her underwear kissing me. Yeah trivia and then we have her little weird freakouts this is where Bear should fully have withdrawn from obviously this would have escalated freaky Nikki into behavior faster probably but at this point as far as she knows this is where it's probably his responsibility to be like holy shit something's really wrong with my friend and stop looking at her as a girlfriend or someone that he can kiss or have sex with and rather this is my good friend I need she's obviously under the effects of something I need to get her help. Yeah that makes perfect perfect sense so I think when he says that stuff out loud to go back to what you said before you know you maybe like what I thought you wanted you know in the at the door it's like you know I he is absolving himself he's because he's able to tell himself well I didn't do anything wrong because I checked in with her right also like I don't want to stretch here but there is a culture whether it's gay or straight where people under the influence get taken advantage of by people less under the influence all the time and when you when you understand that someone is so fucked up that they're not making decisions that they would make when they're sober I think that is when you back off 110% because they're not really able to give consent.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:55

And I think I wonder if that plays into this at all where the mere fact like you said like she's acting so different would be an indicator for him to like stay out of the bed. Yeah like and I think that's where it gets like icky. And when I asked the question earlier it wasn't like I didn't have an opinion on it.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:18

I actually wanted to know like what I absolutely know that I know that yeah I think too I think you could argue maybe someone is looking for the obvious drunk signs oh my god I can't stand but she's clearly under the influence of something else maybe not booze but you don't know if she's taken a drug she's on LSD whatever um it's still under the influence right it's like she's doing stuff at such an accelerated pace to go from like being okay with you saying hey we're just friends to she's in her bra and and panties in your bed and like I needed this and leaning on you like I would just be like what the fuck like that is kind of weird when you just like I'm joking of course it's weird. But she she repeatedly says sorry that she was having a panic attack yep so that is the thing I love this like excusing itself from doing something it like insane it finds an excuse as fast as it can I you can almost see it you can see it in her face where like sometimes she's frantically looking for a reason yeah she's looking the freaky Nicky is looking for a reason to give to bear that will make him feel okay with what's happening right now.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:41

Like she's like uh uh uh it's a panic attack like like that's like what you got like a a two second panic attack like what and he just accepts it yes he does oh god okay she starts to sob again and she says she's so lost and my heart just kind of like breaks for her because I didn't when she says she's so lost I started to wonder if that's the actual Nikki like is this still the confusion period and I kind of just felt terrible for like the emotions that she was exuding it just felt sad.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:25

Yeah it is sad like she can I and you have to ask yourself like when she says that is this I think is this freaky Nikki's manipulation or is this like genuiness that's I mean like at this part because she just snapped in and out of like real Nikki I'm like is the actual possessed freaky Nikki actually lost at this point too like doesn't understand truly what is happening and is sobbing.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:57

Like it's just that's I mean like I could go on and on and on about interpretations around like what is actually happening inside of her yeah there's so much that's the fun that's the fun part of this movie like talking about that yeah so the next morning bear awakes to find a complete breakfast on the table but not only does he discover a complete breakfast in the center of the kitchen floor is his dead cat Sandy surrounded by candles and it appears Nikki has created a shrine he says that's fucked up she asks him if that is good like and I wrote this is the fatal flaw he knows her he knows she wouldn't do this yeah and this is what I like this is what I said earlier about about this the freaky Nikki wish Nikki being um I I almost treat it like it's a new thing waking up to society and life and trying to like play catch up here because freaky Nikki knows that he's sad about the cat it does not know how to go about dealing with that.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:25

So it's best it's best kick at the cat so to speak kick at the can it's best kick at the can here is to it thinks it's a nice thing to present to fish the cat out of the garbage and put it in a memorial in the center of the kitchen. And I love that it's just like and we get more of this later obviously get some more fucked up shit later. Yeah but oh I mean yes it doesn't like it's clearly like freaking Nikki is clearly doesn't do this maliciously or or out of any other reason really I in my opinion other than she's it genuinks this is a good option so at work the next day Ian asks what happened with Nikki and Bear says Nikki was acting really weird that her dad has cancer and Ian says really her dad in Washington she doesn't care about Bear says she would freak out and snap back to Happy he says it was terrifying like psychotic that it was freaking him out Ian says it sounds like she was on fucking Molly and while they're talking in the background Nikki is staring at them and smiling it appears she's obsessed with bear yeah and like I like I like this discussion here too is because uh bear seems relieved when Ian figures it out for him oh it was probably Molly again dude and they both like you can see it in bear's face he's like he comes to peace with that for a second he's like yeah no that okay that's that that makes sense like and he's but it's not gonna last until the next morning not at all but he you could tell it hit his face he doesn't he's completely he's almost like relieved he has a reason why she was acting that way yes it is true but I would file this under yet another glaring example of him just choosing not to believe the obvious yeah well yes he he's so like but this is the thing like his fatal flaw and why I think he's like a shitty person is because he knows this is wrong and doesn't do anything about it. Like he he's like oh good enough for me file it under okay you're no you're you're a hundred percent right I mean that is his character is that he knows it's wrong and does it anyway because we find we'll see throughout the movie he doesn't care about Nikki he cares about how Nikki and the relationship affects him. Yeah and if she likes him for him yes she actually like him I have so much more to say we both do later about this but here absolutely he is relieved to be able to live in his own lie world you know this make believe longer and that that's you hit the nail on the head he's just like I he'll he'll just take it because he's fine knowing something's wrong but he can hide his his consciousness behind a lie that it's okay with him.

SPEAKER_01 1:38:46

Yeah. And I think this like at the beginning I was asking if you would feel more sympathy for him because of the deaths that he's experienced. And now I would unequivocally say no I don't I don't think so I think this is like a flaw regardless of those events. So I I agree that evening I think the scene is so awesome so that evening while Bear and Ian are on the phone discussing Nikki's strange behavior we get a background scene this is like a blink and you miss it scene of like Nikki's movement. And I don't know if you know but this actress has been hailed for her movement in this movie.

SPEAKER_00 1:39:31

Yeah the uh there's so much she does with these little things here like like yeah he's on the phone with um uh Baird Ina talking to the phone and her silhouette in the background is already there and it's just like there's just so many terrifying cruel moments in this movie that I they all work so well and I think it could have not worked if it was like a lesser actress or a worse director and I think it just like it's just it crushes the feeling of Uncanny Valley that like this is something like not knowing how to be human properly. Does this give you evil dead vibes at all?

SPEAKER_01 1:40:18

Uh not really I get where you're I think I can see where you might be coming from but not really I would say no I think this I think you know what it is I think it's the practical use of gore and the color scheme that kind of give me that evil dead rise kind of vibe like that and the fact that she the fact that she like clearly to me like is demonic I mean we know that she we know that's not the case but I mean you could argue for all intents and purposes she could be like yeah and and I I see the parallels just as we're talking through this but I also wanted to know how long she was dude just watch obsession but the thing is like I wonder how long she was out there and what made her decide to move like it's all these little things that I I my it gets my brain going. And you can tell like honestly we're at like quite far into this and I don't even think we've like scratched the surface of like how like intricate all these things are and I don't even know if the director intended it to be like this layered but yeah it's that I it's so funny because on first watch I actually missed a couple things in the theater my first watch like I thought she just came off screen and walked through to the door I because obviously it's my first viewing so I was like I I yeah I watched the background a little bit but I was mainly paying attention to to Bear's face and then all of a sudden I see this shadow move and then the second watch she's already there it's like oh my god it's so good you know what's interesting horror has trained me to always look in the background I almost like whenever you get a scene where there is clearly landscape in the background yes it's like now I am trained so I wonder if in the theater I was just like honed in on that and this movie but it just seemed to happen and I was like oh this is really cool and some might call that so like this movie uses your expectation of that to great effect later on and it's a great example of Hitchcockian horror where like yeah the movie sets up a situation you know there's gonna be a scare or something bad's about to happen.

SPEAKER_00 1:42:37

Like it's obvious but it still gets you anyway. Oh yeah totally so good. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:42:45

So she appears shrouded in darkness in his doorway.

SPEAKER_00 1:42:49

I also love the lighting in this scene while she is talking so fun fact here some little background here contrary to what you might think for this whole scene she is when it was filmed she is actually well lit. What yep they did all the this scene all the lighting on her silhouette the glare the glint in her eyes was all editing so good yeah really cool like he said in an interview he's like believe it or not we actually had her fully lit up at the front and we had like they just did such a good job in the editing room of getting the exact look we wanted with the silhouette in her in the door frame and then you see her those those the the reflection in her eyes almost symbolizing that it's not really her right it's like the it's no it is a demon andrew the more you know what's funny the more we talk about this the more I am like it is a demon look at her eyes all you see is a little like cat glital dead sorry duh oh no for our listeners I forgot that we're doing a podcast for like the last 10 minutes that's good that's good I mean that's like no we're just chatting so she says she's really sorry about last night she convinces him she was indeed on MDMA and that's why she acted the way that she did she wants to be honest about some things she says she likes him and that it happened over time and for a second I was thinking two things this is like one I almost for a quiet moment thought this was like a genuine tender scene like in any other movie it felt like two characters having an honest interaction she even says like sometime around Christmas I think like she adds yes but then I also realized she is a fantastic manipulating liar absolutely like I don't think anything happened at Christmas no or maybe it draws upon some memories of that Nikki does have yes exactly like this actually is a thing you know and maybe Nikki like we said it's still according to Curry Barker very ambiguous as to whether Nikki liked you know likes bear or not you know what's funny though if you take one wish willow completely out of this movie Nikki is too good for that asshole obviously yeah like like a hundred percent like I like to state the obvious yeah absolutely well this I find fucking odd but we cut to a montage of the happy couple kissing laughing and pretty much enjoying their newfound love and from the outside it seems very normal.

SPEAKER_01 1:45:58

However there is a moment where they're watching TV and she can only stare at Bear to the point where he has to correct her.

SPEAKER_00 1:46:09

And this was in the trailer and this was the very first sign that maybe it was too much for him like there's something abnormal about this interaction post the MDMA scare one really quick thing I'll say is when they both say they have feelings for each other the soundtrack that plays I think this uh Love is in the air part one plays which is kind of cool because it's in a it goes with part two later on which is a much worse situation. But yeah the montage is seemingly out of like a romantic film romantic comedy yes exactly gives you that that standard montage of like and she seems normal overall in it relatively they have fun that confused me like she seems normal but obviously this is a progressive thing. Yeah she like she's they have fun they have the funny like haha they're laughing when they cook they're throwing salt on the on the the stove he's she's playing guitar while he's on the computer like and then yes you when they watch this movie at the end of the montage he corrects her and this it's very clear this thing doesn't give a fuck about what's on TV and its only worry is what is happening with bear and it kind of it I love that it sours that entire montage I love that I also think it was such a pivotal thing to put in the trailer because it highlights within seconds the obsession also too I want to give I want to give credit to this the trailer that this is how you do a trailer right is like you get the you the that the trailer for this film gets across that this girl undergoes this transformation without really revealing all the fun shit that's in the movie about it.

SPEAKER_01 1:47:50

You know I told you before that I'm I don't watch trailers anymore and the only trailer I saw was before another horror movie and it was the one where he calls the guy about the one wish willow yeah and that was the only and then I was sold I was like okay I'm good to go but like even that was just such an effective trailer. And I think you're right like we all talked about this like ad nauseum about trailers that just like really give away like every single scene and I'm like I'm good. Give me a taste. Yeah exactly all right Andrew we're gonna talk about the diner scene the completely normal diner scene so we meet up with Nikki and Bear at a diner and they're kind of having casual banter about Bear's future as a food critic and Bear receives a call from Ian Ian says he looked into Nikki's dad having cancer and it appears he's healthy as a baby. Bear ducks into a corner to continue talking and Bear learns the day he used the one wish willow earlier that day Nikki was saying that she thought of Bear as a little brother he says it's like Nikki snapped into a different person and all while they're talking Nikki gets up because she needs to know where Bear is yeah and when he returns to the table visibly shaken he asks Nikki like does your dad really have cancer and she appears shaken by this and admits like no he doesn't and rises from the table and begins screaming like no no no no no why does it matter they were having a nice date do that yeah so this is uh post mdma freaky Nikki being unhinged so I like I love this for a couple scenes and this is this is the scene where Bear puts it together.

SPEAKER_00 1:49:55

So there's no after the scene after the scene and this is important for what we are To get into next, we'll talk about that in a second, I'll give a trigger warning for it. But he asked her, he asked Nikki, Nikki, do you love me? And she says, Yes, of course. More than anyone in the entire world. And she like looks all coy and she says, Yes, more than she says yes. And then in his head, he has a quick little montage. He goes back to the one wish willow. He goes back to there's a couple scenes there of the past, and he puts it together in his head that the wish the willow's working.

SPEAKER_01 1:50:32

But how logically it doesn't work. Would you literally come to that conclusion?

SPEAKER_00 1:50:39

Well, we have and this is wait, one second.

SPEAKER_01 1:50:42

This is Bear's defense. Is that this is so uncanny and impossible that he continues to go with the flow.

SPEAKER_00 1:50:56

Which is so I will argue, I'm gonna argue a little differently here. Okay, I will I will say up until this point, yes, uncanny and illogical, but goes with the flow. So after the phone call, he's like you said, visibly shaken. And bear, I think Ian even says specific words. It's like Nikki snapped into a different person or something.

SPEAKER_01 1:51:15

Yes, that's what he says. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:51:16

Yes, that's iconic wording. One, two, before, uh, in conjunction with asking about her dad, where she's like, No, no, no, no. Don't do that. Um he asks her, like, do you love me more than anyone in the world? And she says yes. And then he, his brain lights up, and he realizes that wording is specific because he's testing the wording of that wish he made. And he flashes back to the box, it's a the scene is literally a one wish we'll low. And from here on out, I'm my opinion, and no he doesn't say it out loud, he doesn't say it to anyone until the end of the movie, but at this part, he knows he knows she's under the effects of the wish. Whether he knows here's a debate. Here's a debate you can have. Whether he knows Nikki is someone else or not, we could you can you can argue that maybe with Bear is Nikki really Nikki? Maybe he thinks that Nikki's just Nikki but different now. But he knows the, I think I would argue he definitely knows the wish has taken hold.

SPEAKER_01 1:52:23

But my argument is that no logical human on earth, like yes, you are correct absolutely. Then I guess my argument is that in the back of his mind, there would be doubt that that actually is real. Absolutely. There has to be. Like he can't know that. And so I don't think I I that's what I mean. It's it's like this impossible situation. But I think like what I find so bizarre, just moving forward, is she says to him, like, why does it matter? Like about like if she's telling the truth or not about her dad. And he says, Doesn't matter to me. And we cut right from that sentence to the two of them having sex, and Nikki is making all the sounds of ecstasy, but her face does not like this at all. Like, she's disassociated from the act of sex, and so the reason like going based off what you just said, if he realizes this, which you're correct in in assuming so, how could he move ahead with the act of having sex with her?

SPEAKER_00 1:53:37

Because he doesn't care about her. Um, and this is this is the tinted this is the thing with Bear is no matter what when he cries or is in pain or he looks sympathetic from this point on, especially, he knows what he's doing. And don't get me wrong, I imagine a physical body in front of you telling them they want you is all the justification in the world. Uh a weak mind could say, I'm okay with this, then. And I think this was in the script even more, but Nikki, we'll talk about this more later, because Nikki does this a couple times. I think freaky Nikki clearly uses sex to draw Bear to make to center him back to like you love me, and it keeps Bear going like as fucked up as that is. So this but it's fucked up on his part. Yes, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 1:54:33

That's the thing. That's and also, can I can I point out one? When you see someone having sex with someone else, and yes, she's making the sounds of ecstasy, but he is so disconnected from her that he can't even see her face registering or not emotions. That's the sign of a really selfish lover. Like, you're not even in tune with the person that you're having sex with. And the reason I bring that up is because it adds to like my disdain for this character. Like you said, he doesn't care about her.

SPEAKER_00 1:55:09

So couple things with this scene here, okay? Like this scene is hard to watch, and I remember in the I remember the the feeling in this in the audience when this scene came on. Um one, if this is obviously like if we acknowledge that freaky Nikki's in control, we see her disassociating, trigger one in here, then it's safe to assume that this is not a sex scene, but really a sexual assault, a rape, right? As awful as it is, and maybe Bear doesn't fully know that. I think he somewhat does. That's what we're watching. Two, you're absolutely right. This scene also highlights how selfish Bear is. He's not because this is this means that he did not look eye contact with her once, did not check in with her like visually while they're in the act. Um, which if you love someone, you love your partner. I think most people do that. Um I like to turn them around. Okay, well, uh, yeah, there's always a time and place for that too. Um, but the point is we we know we respect one another, right? Like every people respect there, should be that respect in the bedroom. And this is clearly a guy who's like he's just getting his rocks off and doesn't give a fuck. And it's just makes this scene. This is like the first real like not the first, but I would argue the real e one of the most evil scenes on display here in the movie is this one.

SPEAKER_01 1:56:43

I think this is also the first scene that we get where we see the real Nikki.

SPEAKER_00 1:56:52

Yes, and I think I think this is I think this is like a metaphorical slap across the face of the audience to say, like, if you aren't paying attention to what's happening, pay attention. Like, wait, like, look what's happening. So it's like, yeah, I think it you can't argue this scene. Like before, right? We said there's there's some nuance, maybe, to how Bear could be feeling about certain situations and and and whatnot, but here that is not the case. And this leads into arguably probably my favorite scene in the entire movie, which I imagine you'll talk about right now.

SPEAKER_01 1:57:26

Yes, Andrew. Things go from warm to hot. So during the night at 3 45 a.m., Bear awakes to find Nikki isn't there. Where is she? You might ask. In the corner of the bedroom. She asks what she's doing, and she says, watching you sleep. You're so cute when you sleep. And she says this very quickly, manically.

SPEAKER_00 1:57:50

Yeah, before we even get to the scene where she's crying before this, yes, we have the the quick answers. She's like, watching you sleep, and she's like, You're so cute when you sleep. She's like, Is that my sweater? It smells like you. Like, she's just so quick to say these retorts, and then she does this like, she's in her underwear wearing a sweater, and she does that like dinosaur slow lurking like predator movement towards bear with like her sleeves out, and like this could be funny, and I think in some ways it's fun, but it's so eerie. Oh, it is, yeah. The audience laughed in the theater where I was. I had two audiences. I had an audience that did laugh, and I had an audience that like was really glued to the screen in this one. Um, so I just loved loved that part already before we even get to the uh what you're about to talk about right now.

SPEAKER_01 1:58:44

I wanted to highlight the makeup because I think it adds like a dramatic. It's weird when you're watching the film, you can't really see the makeup. And then when you look at clips online, you see like how dramatic it was. And so key makeup artists, Kate Oja and Department Head Ali Shehorn created the effect entirely with standard cosmetics rather than heavy face pieces. They use strategic brown and gray shadows to deeply hollow out the eye sockets and line the under eyes. The reason I bring this up is because I find this to be like a subtle practical effect that maybe wasn't required, but completely enhances the depth of her in that dark bedroom. So just highlighting the visual there for a moment.

SPEAKER_00 1:59:31

Yeah, and like there was this style of makeup caught on wait before this movie came out. Like I would say it trended probably a couple of years before that. On TikTok and Instagram, this was a trend of doing un what they called uncanny value makeup, and there's uh a lot of cool channels making little horror shorts off showing, especially the girls, the other the female creators, um, would would show themselves in this makeup in the dark, and it was it was really freaky. And this is it absolutely the lighting here combined with that makeup just crushes her facial, like her her face is terrifying.

SPEAKER_01 2:00:09

Is it weird that like I feel like they didn't even need to do this, but it was like an extra like icing on the cake?

SPEAKER_00 2:00:20

Yeah, I think I think this just fully you're highlighting the cheeks and that frown and the eyes for her crying, and I think the actress could have sold this alone crying in the dark, but it makes it makes her look not normal.

SPEAKER_01 2:00:38

Demonic. Yes, it makes her look at you're staying away from the possession demon thing, but girl, all the signs are there. Yeah, like this bitch is demonic against her will.

SPEAKER_00 2:00:54

I would just say I would argue this this wish, Nikki, freaky Nikki, is not a demon in nature, though. I think if you want to argue it is another entity, sure. I would not say it's a demon, though.

SPEAKER_01 2:01:05

Well, you know, tomato tomato. So Bear. Fair, fair, okay, okay. Bear asks if she'll come back to bed. Can I ask you something? Why the fuck is he asking if she'll come back to bed? Like, because he I want to save this rant for later, but like, what the giant fuck?

SPEAKER_00 2:01:31

Yeah, so this is like he hasn't even, she's not even done the voice distortion yet, or like the uncanny movement with the fire plot. At this point, he's asked her to come back to bed already, but he's terrified. Like, yes, he's already shitting his pants, and like it's because you have to like you'll see this. We we will both talk about this. You see this more and more throughout the movie. He continues to try and ground himself to to bring it back to the normal relationship he pictures in his mind. He does it here, he does it after the party where he has the big talk with Nikki where he really Yeah, but I'm gonna like let's because I go ahead. Yeah, we'll we'll both go off in that scene, but it's very clear, like, this is just the subtle signs, even though he's scared here, he only cares about making sure that Nikki is just normal and he's having a normal relationship with his hot girlfriend, and he doesn't care about anything else.

SPEAKER_01 2:02:33

This is very sad because I do think this is a perspective of the wish Nikki, but she sobs and she says, I don't like my dreams. I feel like you don't love me as much as I do, like it's not mutual. But what's so interesting about that is on the one hand, she says, I don't like my dreams, which we know what that's referring to. But then on the other hand, she flips to say, I feel like you don't love me as much. Like to me, those are two like I don't think the dreams she's referring to are about him not loving her enough. No, it it's that it's that dichotomy in one sentence, yeah, that is so fucked up and interesting.

SPEAKER_00 2:03:22

Because when Wish Nicki is asleep, it's Nikki is in there, and I like that Wish Nikki is referring to that.

SPEAKER_01 2:03:31

Yes, so cool. So she tells him to go back to sleep, and Andrew, what does he do? He does go back to sleep, it's so good.

SPEAKER_00 2:03:41

Okay, cool. So he This is actually it. This and for the audience, too. Like you want this is generally uh a humorous in a good like a good way humorous scene.

SPEAKER_01 2:03:51

It is but it's also completely unnerving.

SPEAKER_00 2:03:54

Yeah, he meekly, he meekly while shaky tries to fake sleep aid.

SPEAKER_01 2:03:58

But like, what the giant anyway, okay. So he begins to sleep, and Nikki screams, Why don't you love me? before appearing before him with a bouquet of flowers. What are you doing? He asks. The music is quite dramatic. We pan closer into the bouquet, and she says for Sandy, okay? Before climbing back casually into bed, he tries to get up and leave, and she screams, stay now a quick temperature check here. She has run the gamut of emotions, correct?

SPEAKER_00 2:04:38

Absolutely, yes.

SPEAKER_01 2:04:41

So like regardless of anything yet to happen, would you at least not take this person to a hospital?

SPEAKER_00 2:04:54

I'm gonna bring this back to what I said before, and I keep saying this. I think as long as he has a semblance of his life, he gets to keep having sex with Nikki, he keeps to like it's his girlfriend. I think he's weathering the storm right now. Then we have then we have solidified that he is pure evil, then at this time. Yes. He doesn't care about her herself. So I guess I guess a simpler answer is yes, you and I would take our dear friend, our lover, to the hospital if they act like this in the middle of the night and without explanation. We would we would care for them. It's that is not him. He he he cares about how it affects him. Not he doesn't at any point from when Nikki self-maims to this stuff, he doesn't actually care about her well-being. He doesn't like, I have to get stitches, I have to do this. He he he all he cares about is how it looks, how it affects his idea of his relationship with Nikki.

SPEAKER_01 2:05:57

It's not how to then he does, but later in the film, he does ask her genuinely if she likes him. Yes, because the real Nikki.

SPEAKER_00 2:06:08

And I'm like wants to hear it, dude. Oh god, okay, upset and like screams, and it's this otherworldly voice that's like a combination of like a male voice and like a female voice, and this like absolutely horrible like sound, and then that that movement with the flower pot, the way the camera lingers on it. I I was this whole scene, too. Like from the moment he woke up and she's not there. This is the first time I realized in the movie. I realized I was scared when she was not on camera. I was like, as soon as we woke up and she's not exactly like we won't when the scene opens up and she's not there. I remember if the feeling it had in the theater was like, oh my gosh, he's it's a middle night. Why is she not in bed? This is not good.

SPEAKER_01 2:06:56

But you know what's weird? It's like I never had any, I never felt like his life would be threatened.

SPEAKER_00 2:07:04

No, I do you know what I mean? Like I know it's weird, like he was in danger. But yet I still felt so scared. And this scene chilled me. I know it has a couple funny punctuated by a couple funny moments, but this scene really was like I am watching something special here with this movie.

SPEAKER_01 2:07:22

Hey folks, that wraps up part one of Obsession. As Andrew mentioned at the top of the cast, we have split this episode into two because it was so damn long. So join us again for part two.