S1 Ep 11- Everyday Equity: Everyday Ways to Make a Change with Jennifer Witter

In this episode of Everyday Equity: Everyday Ways to Make a Change, Pooja Kothari sits down with Jennifer Witter, CEO and founder of The Boreland Group, a public relations agency with more than two decades of experience helping organizations gain visibility and influence.

Jennifer shares how she built her company, why she now focuses on supporting women-led and “new majority” businesses, and how public relations intersects with equity and representation. The conversation explores how implicit bias shows up in hiring, leadership, and business growth—and why awareness is the first step toward change.

They also discuss Jennifer’s TEDx talks on implicit bias, the myth of meritocracy, and how organizations can move beyond performative DEI to create cultures where people truly feel included.

This episode is a candid conversation about leadership, bias, visibility, and the small steps that move us closer to equity every day.

Transcript

 Welcome to Everyday Equity, everyday Ways to make a change. The show that brings real conversations about fairness, compassion, and progress into our everyday lives. I'm Pooja Kothari, and each week I sit down with guests from all kinds of industries and backgrounds to talk about what equity looks like, not just in their work, but in their daily choices and personal journeys.

Because building a more equitable world isn't just for academics, activists, or experts. It's for all of us every day in big ways and small. We can choose to be more aware, more kind, and more connected, and this is where we learn how.

 Hi everybody. Welcome back to Everyday Equity, everyday Ways to Make a Change. We had a brief hiatus over the last two weeks. I am your host, Pooja Kothari, founder of Boundless Awareness, and I am so excited for today's guest, Jennifer Witter. Jennifer is the CEO and founder of the Borland Group, a 21-year-old public relations agency that was also named one of 10 black-owned businesses, making a buzz by the street.com.

Jennifer is an in-demand public speaker with presentations at. Pentagon, the Brookings Institution, Columbia University, Oscar Health, as well as two TEDx talks, which we are definitely gonna talk about. Jennifer and I have been friends since 2016 when we met. Welcome Jennifer. I'm so thrilled to have you here.

You are such a ray of sunshine and like a wealth of information, so I can't wait to get into it. Puja, when so much for being here. Oh, please. Puja, when you initially reached out to me, I was so thrilled and honored, you know that I'm a great admirer of your work. I have great respect for what you do.

So to me, it is my total honor and my thrill to, to be on your program. Oh, thank you so much. We met back in 2016 when I you were at M Booth. And I came to do one talk, and then we met there and it was like my, one of my very first implicit bias talks. And I was like, oh I felt a little, in awe and a little intimidated when I saw you in the room to be perfectly honest.

And and then we went to lunch afterwards and had a really great conversation. Do you remember that time back then? Of course I did. When I was at AM Booth, I still obviously had the Borland group and I was there as a con. Felton, I was their diversity fellow. And I remember when your name first came up and you were just fabulous.

I still remember you were in the front of the conference room. There were like maybe 30, 40 people jammed in because so many people wanted to hear what you had to say. And I thought you were a spectacular, I thought you were wonderful. And I said, I got to know her. I gotta know her better. And I did.

Yeah. I know. This is LinkedIn Live is about you, but I really appreciate those very kind words. And when we went to lunch you told me we, we talked a lot about pr. I had really no understanding of what PR was. And you gave me all of these ideas and I just wanna quickly talk, and we're gonna talk about this later also, but.

You told me about this book you had just written recently at that time and I bought it immediately. 'cause I was like, I need some help get me. And it's a little book, but with really great PR ideas. I highly recommend it, especially to really, people starting out, small business owners is a really great jumpstart with like just perfect ideas that are manageable and accessible to people who may not feel like they have a ton of resources to spend on pr but also ones that can get you noticed.

Tell me about this book. I wrote it for that exact reason. There are many startups, there are many executives that want to take advantage of public relations, but they just don't have the funds to engage a PR agency. So with the little book of big pr, it does says, it does say about getting your small business notice, but again, it's also for executives.

It's bite-sized chapters. We talk about personal branding, we talk about networking, we talk about media, and there are all these tips that you can easily incorporate into your day-to-day, into your PR plan. And at the end of every chapter, there is a case study, and throughout each chapter there were special sections that are like.

Are called big Don't. Like for example, in media relations, I tell people, don't bug reporters don't do it because you'll be put on a list and they'll say, we don't wanna hear from that person. So you can read it all at once. You can read it chapter by chapter. But the goal of it was to work with burgeoning small businesses, and again, executives who want to get to the next level.

And I hope that the book provides them with the ammunition to get them to that level. Yeah, it really does. And it's just, the thing that I feel very strongly about is it's very quick to get overwhelmed as a small business owner, as a solo practitioner. Yeah. You're doing everything and this book doesn't make you feel overwhelmed.

And I feel like that's the biggest, that's step one. Thought you're gonna read a book and feel like, okay, I can accomplish this. So it's very well written. Thank you. And I've always referred back to it. I feel like it's just over time keeps giving. It's not like you can accomplish all of it, so you just keep chipping away. And I really appreciate that that you're just making my heart thing. And a friend of mine, I saw on her Facebook page yesterday that if you save $8 a day, by the end of the year, you'll have $3,000. And the point of it is that these small steps lead to bigger things.

And that's what this book is. You take one or two tips, you can take 10 tips, you can take as many tips as you want, but you'll be marching steadily towards your goal. Yeah. And just like we say with DEI work anti depression work, it's like going to the gym. You don't go once and get strong. No.

And it's the same thing with this is consistent effort. I wish it was that easy, we'll go more into that as we talk. Yeah, exactly. Okay. I wanna talk about how you got into pr, why this industry for 20 21 years, your own company. Tell me how you got started in that and what you've seen overall of this time.

Actually the Borland group is 21 years old now, as you mentioned, but I've been in public relations for about 40 years and I fell into it. I went to Fordham University. I was a print journalism major, and when I graduated into a recession. At the time, in my senior year, I was working at the PR department of the New York Botanical Garden.

Marsh ero, bless her soul. She was a director of pr. She knew I was looking for a full-time job, and she goes, you know what? Stay here. Stay here. And then when you get the job that you want, you can go. No hard feelings. As it turned out, I had a natural inclination for public relations, and I am a very strong writer.

And with pr. You do something different every day. And you have a wealth of clients, as someone said, it is like you visit so many different worlds and all these years later here I am still in public relations, still enjoying it every day. And I have visited so many worlds from high tech to products to companies led by women to nonprofits.

I feel very blessed. To be in this industry. And then quickly starting out with the boiling group, 21 years ago it was after I took some time off because PR I have to. Dispel a couple of myths that it's not like the old sexist city, Samantha, having cosmos and lunches. It is a high stress field and year after year they have these listings of high stress jobs and PR is one of the top five, and I was burned out.

So I took a year off and I decided I wanted to stay in P but my, with my own way of thinking and doing things, and that's how the Borland group was born. And in the beginning we focused in on real estate because my first client was in real estate and we did such an exceptional job there that for the first several years of my company, I did not do any cold calls.

I did not do any networking. Clients were coming. To me. Yeah. And then in 2000, just before 2008, I saw that the market was getting shaky, and that's when I began to diversify. And that's what helped me. And then moving into where I am now, because it was all organic, it wasn't planned. I have moved out of real estate and now I specialize in companies that are new, majority owned.

Women led as well as nonprofits, and I just wanna take a moment to explain what new majority is. According to the US census, by the year 2045, people of color will be the majority demographic in the United States. Weiss will become known as minority whites. That is not my term. That is what is being said, and what I've seen in the years I've had my business, it is that companies that are new, majority owned and women led, we do not get our fair share of attention.

We are always under the radar. And what I do with all my years of experience with the expertise that I bring to the table is to partner with these companies and contribute to their success. I always say, your success is my success. So I work to get them above the radar, and by doing so, it helps them by obviously increased visibility that attracts new clients.

With clients that they do have, it strengthens their bond and they can grow out more business and they have the luxury of people coming to them wanting to work for them as opposed to seeking out individuals. So that is my goal. And for women led corporations, women, and this is part of my speaking, we always get the short end of the stick.

For example, women. Who are seen as okay, forthright. They speak their mind, they get dinged. They do. We do. And that can be slower promotions. It could be less salaries. It is a whole plethora. So I work with these women led corporations so that we can overcome these. Biases so that they can move forward into their rightful spaces, and I'm very dedicated toward that.

So that's what our area is and shall remain. It is like you're in this very high stress PR job and then you've added a very high stress DEI principles infused into your work. It's yeah, it's unavoidable. You really can't do PR or really anything, but this is so like high visibility using words and images and people Yes.

Without understanding the impact of those words on them. Oh, absolutely. And the thing about it is again. It's only been within the past seven, eight years that this has been brought to the forefront. But these issues such as microaggressions, biases, all this, they have always existed and they have impacted the advancement of women and people of color.

Let me give you a quick example of it. This is according to the National Bureau of Economic Research. If you have a name that is black sounding or ethnic sounding. Such as Malcolm, such as puja, you have to send out 15 resumes in order to get a response back. If you have a white sounding name like Jennifer Christian, you send out 10 resumes and you will get a response.

So that's a 30% difference, give or take. And what I say is, how can you even climb the ladder of success when you can't even get through the front door? So it's about bringing awareness to these issues. It's not about pushing people out, it's about pulling people in. And also, especially nowadays, dispelling the myths and misinformation around diversity, equity, and inclusion.

People feel like it is a zero sum game. It, it again, there is so much misinformation about it. Another example I want to focus in on is the letter D in diversity, equity, and inclusion. And a lot of people think, I have their thoughts about. Diversity and I went to a New York Urban League breakfast and one of the panelists said something that I have been talking about, and he said that when people hear the letter D, they attribute it primarily to blacks.

And yes, blacks do fall under the D category, but what a lot of people don't realize is diversity can include people from rural areas, the formerly incarcerated veterans, people with non-normative bodies. So when you talk about diversity, the definition is so much more broad and for people who think they're not diverse surprise, you may be diverse, and so you fall under that category.

And do you want the same rights as the person next to you? Of course. But again, if you don't know, you don't know, and you will continue on your path. And with implicit bias is bias. Of which you are unaware and it triggers certain behaviors. And those behaviors are usually directed toward marginalized communities and underserved populations, and it has a negative impact and effect.

So you'll be going forth not knowing, just like with the resumes, not knowing how your bias is influencing your decisions. And so things can't change. Unless you become better aware of it and see how you too, can be a member of a population that you previously did not identify with. And what do you say for organizations that are led by any member of a marginalized group. So let's say a white women founded organization where the head is a white woman, or the head of the organization is a white woman, but women are marginalized so that you know the founder, but at the same time being part of that marginalized group doesn't exempt you from perpetuating oppression within your own organization.

When you meet or when you're helping people with their PR and you're and you encounter this, how do you approach your clients? How do you talk about you're not, maybe not part of the cis hat white male. Yeah. And they're not a majority at all, but they are the ones in power.

You may not be part of that group, and yet you can be perpetuating behaviors that you consciously reject. How do you, what's your approach? How do you go about it? What resources do you give if any, how do you approach that conversation? The thing about it is that with my clients, I have the, I say the bestest clients around and they want to learn.

They want to grow, and they are receptive to my ideas. They don't come to me out of a vacuum. I'm very vocal. My beliefs and my statements on social media, so it's not like they're going to meet Jennifer and go, oh my gosh, I didn't know. They know. They know. And so with organizations, let's just say they're led by a white woman.

I will try to. Inclusion in the the PR plan that we are working with. For example, I'll say like with speaking engagements, have you thought about speaking here with media relations? I had a client a few years ago, and she is she still is a white Jewish woman and I got her in a black enterprise.

And again, I, inclusion is important. But let's be clear-eyed about this. Businesses want to earn money and they will only go so far. So what I need to do, what other practitioners of this have to underscore why it's important for the business to be considering these tactics, and one tactic, excuse me, that always works, is saying that too, you'll be able to attract more clients because more clients are saying, we want diverse teams.

Two, you'll have a greater group of recruitments. Younger people, millennials, gen Xs, gen Ys, they are looking at companies. They're going in and saying, how diverse is this organization? If they see. One person of color and a handful of others, they're gonna go no, I don't think so. And third, and this is the key thing, is that you will increase your revenue.

Everything I say here is based on facts. Like with all of my presentations, it's not just Jennifer saying it. It is all fact and evidence based and their ears. Potential Clients will always perk up when I say to them, you have an opportunity to generate higher revenue and. Push off competitors and gain market share, if you consider these tactics.

Yeah. People have been such a squandered resource in this country. Really? Oh, like cutting your nose, spite the face type thing. It's implicit bias, inclusion is something that we thread through everything that we do, and people are a gog when they learn about implicit bias.

For CEOs, if you are a tall person over six feet, and let's say it's a man, okay? If you're a man who's six. Feet and over. You have a higher chance of getting a CEO position than a man who's five nine, which is the average height of American male. The reason being is that for taller men against six feet and over.

They denote authority leadership confidence, and for shorter men, it's just not like that. And, again, these, this is all factual, but they don't take into account whether that man who's five nine, does he have emotional intelligence. We just emerged from COVID, how is this person going to lead through unprecedented times?

All those. Soft skills sometimes are not taken into consideration when you're looking at men. So you know, again, it's so insidious, implicit bias, and can impact us in ways that are large and small. And again, if you don't know, you're going to continue along a path that could be overall detrimental to your overall objective.

Nobody wants that. Get out of, we gotta get out of our own way. Yes. Absolutely. We have to work to get out of our own way. Yeah indeed. Any, so you have two TEDx talks. Can you talk to me about those? Do you ever refer your clients that, you should really watch this as like a way to start this conversation.

How prejudiced are you and on implicit bias. So talk to us about your TEDx talks. Sure. I don't include it in my initial outreach because reaching out to a client who doesn't know you saying How prejudice are you? Maybe a little bit off putting to the person. But the first TEDx that I did, it was a TEDx Albany, and it was basically what implicit bias is.

And I already mentioned it and I gave examples of it, and I also. Excuse me, gave ways to overcome it and how to address it. For example, how to address, because I've come across this myself, is when somebody says something that you disagree with, many times we won't say anything or we just freeze and it can be uncomfortable.

But what I say is just say, I don't agree with that. You don't wanna put the person on a defensive. You want them to say what do you mean? And then you open up a line of conversation that allows them to see your way of thinking. The second TEDx that I did, which was this year, it was with the University of Mount St.

Vincent, is how implicit bias is scarier than racism. Now, racism, everybody who is a racist knows they are racist. Let's not pussyfoot around this. You're a member of the Proud Boys White Nationalist Groups clan. You know you are a racist. But with implicit bias, you are again unaware of it. There are laws that help to contain control.

Racism, the Voting Rights Act. The Civil Rights Act, brown, the Board of Education, all of that helped to negate what the Jim Crow laws the ability to vote for all. But I challenge listeners, viewers, today to give me one law that addresses implicit bias. There is no law that challenges implicit bias or tries to negate it, so without that, it is allowed to proliferate, grow.

So that is why, in my opinion, racism is horrible. Don't get me wrong. But implicit bias can be scary because it can grow, it can expand, and nine times outta 10 it can have very bad, or fatal consequences to those that it's being directed toward. Yeah. If you don't know that you're not interviewing you're interviewing or accepting five less resumes because you have.

A non-white sounding or non-Christian. So you name yes. Then you have no idea the impact that you're making. How you're lessening and making more shallow your inclusion. And then if you're unaware of it, but you consciously are like, I think inclusion's definitely a good thing. Then it comes off as performative 'cause you don't know how to actually implement it.

Yes. And you don't wanna be performative and you also don't wanna be guilty of virtue signaling or tokenism and, oh we have a black board member. Whoop be due for you. Was that person selected because of his or their. Qualities or was it to to meet a quota.

And a lot of companies in Silicon Valley, not naming any of them, have been. Slammed because of that. And Wells Fargo, I saw this on LinkedIn the other day, they are once again in very deep trouble because they're being brought up on Sham hiring with DEI hires. So if people are watching and people know they're not as clueless as some organizations may think they are.

Yeah, there's so many negative impacts to that. On the person that got hired on the inclusion and the belonging of what other people think about that person. This myth of meritocracy that everyone else got hired because they deserved it and then this person didn't get hired only because that they feel, all of that's a myth.

It's a wild, rampant myth. And sometimes in my workshops I ask people like, what does the myth, why is meritocracy a myth? And it is so hard for most people. When you don't think about it so much as you and I do to really articulate what that means. And when people start having that realization, it's so shocking to them.

It is. That the world couples that's the huge difference between racist and those who have implicit bias. Racists will title along happy as a clown in their own little racist world. For those who have implicit bias, and I have worked with people, they are ashamed of it when it comes to their knowledge and they want to change, that's the most important thing.

Yeah. And one of the things that I suggest is that if you wanna know where your biases laying, take the Harvard Implicit Association test, it's online. It's free, it's anonymous. I've taken it multiple times so you don't have to worry about being tracked. And there are different sorts of tests, BT qia, a gender race, and it's a starting point as to see where those biases lay.

Yes. Yeah. It's a severe outcome for anybody who takes it. 'Cause we're all indoctrinated and we've all internalized it. Yeah. It's not nice when you see those results and it's holy moly I can't believe that. But again, that if you're willing to learn, I will always be there to support you.

Indeed. That's the best. I gotta I gotta write that down. Holy moly. You've given us a lot, but in the last few minutes a piece of advice that you would give our audience when they are embarking on this journey halfway through and frustrated demoralized or ashamed, any of those feelings.

What piece of advice do you have to move forward? A couple of things. I would say keep moving forward. At the beginning of this conversation, we were saying about exercise, that if we went in and had, these wonderful physiques, after 30 minutes of working out, hey, everybody would be at the gym. It is a process.

It is a long journey, and you have to keep moving forward. The other thing I would say is that you need to incorporate DEI into your corporate culture, that it has to be just as important as the other departments such as finance human resources, because it's the sake of that, the health, wealth and wellbeing of your organization.

I know a lot of companies are cutting. DEI out for a variety of reasons, but what I'm saying is to move forward with it, you may have to use different language. As long as the outcomes are that everyone feels included, that your office represent the population, it will be a win for you and for those you work with and for the clients that you have.

Absolutely excellent. Jen, hi Jennifer for speaking engagement. There's some times of the year that she especially gives talks. November Small Business Saturday that's coming up. February is Black History Month, April's Diversity Month, may Small Business Month. It's, there's just so many opportunities, but Jennifer's a wealth of knowledge.

Get in contact with Jennifer on LinkedIn or Instagram. You can see it scrolling at Jennifer Twitter. And one last thing I wanna talk about elevating Covey Club. Tell me. Yes, very quickly. Elevate Network and Covey Club are two organizations that I belong to. They both promote women without any agenda, but seeing the other woman advance with Elevate.

I'm the co-president of the New York City chapter and with Covey Club. I've been an active member since the start. They have a wealth of wonderful classes. All of them on are online. With Elevate. They have workshops, they have book clubs, they have in-person events, and I would just ask that you take a look at both of them.

And if you're looking for organizations that will support you in an unqualified manner, these are the two that I would highly recommend. Amazing. Jennifer, thank you so much. You're such a wealth of knowledge. Contact Jennifer. Your website's going through a little bit of a yes. Of a redesign, but until then you find Jennifer and Connect.

Connect with us. Yeah, connect with us on LinkedIn and ig. Yeah. It's been wonderful having you here. Thank you so much for your time. Thank you. And we will see you all in September for our next everyday equity everyday ways to make a change. Bye-Bye. Bye. 

 Thanks for joining us on Everyday Equity, everyday Ways to make a change. If today's conversation inspired you, keep the momentum going. Connect with us on LinkedIn at almos awareness. Subscribe to our YouTube at Boundless Awareness and explore more free resources to support your anti-oppression journey @boundlesswareness.com.

Remember, progress isn't about perfection. It's about showing up every day with curiosity, compassion, and the courage to do a little better. I'm Pooja Kothari, and I can't wait to keep learning and growing with you right here on everyday equity.