S1 Ep 13- Everyday Equity: Everyday Ways to Make a Change with Dr. Cicely Horsham-Brathwaite

In this episode of Everyday Equity: Everyday Ways to Make a Change, Pooja Kothari speaks with Dr. Cicely Horsham-Brathwaite, psychologist, executive coach, and author, about leadership, anti-oppression, and the role of self-care in creating lasting change. 

Together they explore how leaders can navigate systems thoughtfully, support their teams emotionally, and recognize the internal work required to challenge oppressive structures. Dr. Horsham-Brathwaite also shares practical insights on emotional regulation, strategic leadership, and why caring for ourselves is essential to building more just and sustainable workplaces.

Transcript

 Welcome to Everyday Equity, everyday Ways to make a change. The show that brings real conversations about fairness, compassion, and progress into our everyday lives. I'm Pooja Kothari, and each week I sit down with guests from all kinds of industries and backgrounds to talk about what equity looks like, not just in their work, but in their daily choices and personal journeys.

Because building a more equitable world isn't just for academics, activists, or experts. It's for all of us. Every day in big ways and small, we can choose to be more aware, more kind, and more connected. And this is where we learn how.

 Hi everybody. Welcome back to Everyday Equity, everyday Ways to Make a change. My name is Pooja Kothari, founder of Boundless Awareness, and with me today is a good friend of mine who I have been so excited to have on our program, Dr. Cicely Horsham. Brathwaite Sicily is an author, an integrative executive, and a business coach who supports Bipoc women.

Cecily, I'm so happy to see you and I'd love talking with you. Today's gonna be very special. I wanna hand it over to you to give a deeper introduction. Thanks so much Puja. First I'm delighted to be here with you and to be invited to be in conversation with you today. When I think about who I am, I really think about whose I am.

And I am someone who comes from a family, a community that has deep roots, based in South Carolina and Gullah Geechee culture having migrated to New York and immigrated from the Caribbean, from Trinidad to North America. And, the people who raised me and cultivated me, raised me to care about connection and community and justice and liberation.

And so in my work in the 20 plus years that I have been a mental health professional, a coach, a consultant, an academic. My work has been to do that, to be in community with. Individuals with my clients, my students, to help them get clear about their particular role in contributing to the greater good.

And I love what I do both the hard parts and the joyous parts because it gets me opportunities to meet folks like you. We've had a chance to collaborate together and that's what I do. I have a heart for justice. And it. Justice and love, and it guides the work that I do. So that's who I am.

That's a bit about who I am. I love that. I love that. When we first met it was so nice to get such a long. Intricate, detailed, something you just never hear from anybody of who, who am I? Why am I in this work? And it was lovely then. And this is really lovely now and there's something, when you said, just wrote it, I was writing it down when you were talking, you said, I think about whose I am.

And it really goes back to belonging. Who do I belong to? Who did I belong to? Yeah. What were their lives, how they affected mine before I even got here. You have had so many hats in your careers. You've worn so many hats, and I'm wondering at what point, or how I, at what point does it matter?

I wanna ask, how did anti-oppression work, belonging work, justice work, how did that integrate into your career? Ah I have a, I have an image, a moment of, having a recent understanding of how I grew to be who I am. It was recently my birthday. We were out with family and I was in conversation with my parents about, some of our upbringing around around justice. We didn't use the words at that time in this time about anti-oppression. But my father, who's from Trinidad said, growing up in a place that was a British colony, I always. I always questioned the order of things and that questioning is something that I carried with me throughout my life.

And so I I grew up in a family where we did a few things. We were in service to others in terms of helping, our community many of my family members are in helping professions, and we also questioned and learned about our history. And so for me particularly because I am a psychologist, I have been focused on helping.

Individuals. And then over time systems and organizations look at the ways that oppression has been internalized within individuals and in those organizations and in those systems and asking people to question and rethink. About what a new future can be. What is toxic, what is suffocating about the practices, the approaches as is, and how can we create something better, new and different.

And so sometimes for systems that looks like when I worked in college counseling centers, it looked like sometimes folks have mental health needs that, require evaluation beyond the setting that we are in and we have choices. We don't have to call 9 1 1 and have police come. We can call a private ambulance service and have them pick up our students.

To me that is anti-oppression work because we know what the history is for many around police in their communities and at a time of vulnerability. We want to be able to get them. The support that they need. So those are, some of that's a, it is sort of like how I came to, to focus on anti-oppression.

And the nature of my work. Often it is individual working with leaders. It is helping folks to question the structures that they navigate and question the internalization of those structures. And then within their sphere of control. Helping them to look at what they can shift and change. When you think about your approach to leaders who have the. Often I think I hear so, so often leaders say it's not just me making the decisions. Everyone just thinks it's so easy for me. I have all the power and I just make the decisions. But it's still collaborative and I still have to get the Okay.

Either from a board or from your other colleagues in your senior leadership team or from other stakeholders. So can you talk to me a little bit about your approach when you're talking to leaders and. E, especially one-on-one, when ultimately changing the power dynamics or the understanding of a perpetuating the same oppressive cycles is still gonna be a collaborative thing.

What's your approach when you're on a one-on-one? Yeah. I love that. So first of all, I think leaders have to be strategic. And one of the things that I find. Is that one, there is an emotional response that my clients are having to the situations that they are faced with. The sy the systems that they're operating within.

And because of that, we need to first deal with their emotions because our behavior is driven by emotions. And so that's both validating them, excavating them, and sometimes after giving space. For what is helping us to understand that we generally have a variety of feeling and emotional states at one time, and can we reach for another one that opens up our creativity.

The other thing that I'm focusing on with folks and I get, and I think also because I come from a mental health practitioner background, is that I'm helping them also look at the way, look at their thoughts. And their thoughts and internalization of messages that they don't hold power over themselves, not others or authority to be able to make some changes.

And sometimes because of what we face and we know that. The truth is work environments for many black and brown women, the folks who often come to me but also folks who identify as women across ethnic and racial lines, they have experienced very negative consequences of using their voice.

Yeah. And there are. There are negative professional consequences, but what we often don't talk about are the negative consequences associated with not living in integrity with what you believe. And so often I'm supporting folks in speaking up and being clear about what it is they believe. And also helping them to develop a strategy for how they communicate that thing.

Who do they need to bring along? And sometimes that strategy is over the course of some time, maybe that's a six to 12 month strategy, a multi-year strategy. Sometimes that is, this is not an environment where you can actually thrive and create the changes that you desire to make. And perhaps there is a different environment.

So I think it's really looking at the landscape. When I wrote my dissertation it was, it incorporated a theory called Social cognitive Career Theory. And that theory, one of the aspects of the theory is that people should have an accurate appraisal. The circumstances in which they are operating and the challenges that they face.

And when you have that accurate appraisal, you can make better decisions about how you cope and navigate with the environment.

Yeah, because so often we enter like a working environment with a pre, a story or a narrative before we get there, or that maybe the company wants you to believe in narrative. We're all of one family. Something like that. That's actually contradictory to the actual day to day. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not a big fan of work as family at all.

And something that you said, I wanted to respond to that.

I I think a defining moment for many of the leaders that I have supported is recognizing their own agency to create change. Sometimes we underestimate it. I think one of two, two learnings I've had personally as. Is someone pointing out to me when I was in a leadership role that I had responsibility without authority, meaning it appeared I was the final decision maker and I was not, and but I had the responsibility of the final decision maker.

So sometimes I'm helping folks to align with who, the person that is the decision maker, and sometimes what I'm helping them to do is recognize that there are implications for remaining in an environment that will not ever perceive you as valuable as you are. Which is why I've worn many hats and I find that those many hats are helpful because, I work as a career coach, an executive coach.

I understand the psychological dynamics an organizational dynamics that occur. And then for my clients who say as many women of color. Executives say, at some point I'm gonna go out and do my own thing. And so having skilled myself up to offer that as well helps me help others conceive of what the range of opportunities are and yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, it's terrifying when you're, when you feel stuck financially or creatively in a job and you just can't even envision what else is out there. We have a comment from one of our audience members, from Lynn Marie Rosenberg, who you know is a big fan of yours, Cecily.

Ah. Hey, Lynn Marie Rosenberg. Lynn is saying yes, reaching for additional emotion to open up creativity. Come on, I mean. I felt this way when I was at my dream job at Legal Aid. Like I was like, there's nothing else I wanna do except be a public defender. And yet I just was so burned out, I just couldn't take another step forward.

Yeah. And I felt so stuck. All I know is how. Is, this sliver of law that is so expansive, but it is so specific. I only know felonies and misdemeanors and the criminal law and the CPL and that's all I know. How could I possibly do anything else? I've just been narrowed into this lane and it took so much work on myself to like envision anything other than that.

Yes, and I think, I'm sure you have other questions for me, but I wanna respond to that about the self. I think that one of the lies oppression tells is that there is not space for us to work on ourselves that. What instead we must do is focus outwardly to either produce or to change, or to challenge or question.

And all of those have their place. But exploring ourselves, and I use the word we're using the word work on ourselves. I think also there's many connotations Yeah. That turning within is work and there's obviously lots of opportunities and systems for like personal development, but that there is a space for turning within, for tuning in.

That I believe often gets lost in service of the structures that we navigate, and anytime that I have made important shifts in my life shed perspectives that I internalized or had to fight in situations that were unjust, oppressive, unfair. All of that required some internal work for me to be able to face those circumstances to to heal from them, to grow from them, et cetera.

And I think there needs to be space for that. Yeah. We so often contort ourselves into the. Job description, bullet points that you know I gotta be this instead of looking inwards and like, how, like how you said, exploring ourselves. What shape have we taken? What shape do we wanna be?

Another audience member. We have Rajana Sheti says, so Tru ly that we have to deal with emotions first because our behavior is driven by emotions. And if only all meetings were managed with as much care. Yeah. Yeah. Often we feel like we don't have the time in the meetings to but I find if you just take a few more moments yeah.

Yeah, it actually makes it much better. Yes. What do you recommend in the, in, in meetings that can be so formal and formulated? Yeah. Yeah. What I would recommend is a couple of things. One, if you are leading the meeting you're the leader of the team or leader for that time. Do what you need to do to care for and regulate yourself.

Before you attend that meeting, before you facilitate that meeting, what research tells us is that one the, a leader's emotional state impacts the emotional state of the folks that they lead and manage. We. Also know that has a larger implication in terms of the emotional state of the team how they work together, how they create together.

But we also know that emotional contagion is real. And that in facilitating a meeting, your emotional state at that time is going to influence the emotional state of the others in the room. We also have research that indicates that emotional contagion happens online just like it does in real life.

So do what you can. Both beforehand and building your practices. I would also say challenge the belief that you don't have time. It's likely that your time is allocated in to things that are not necessary or not supportive. Of what your physiology needs. And then of course one of the things I learned early on my, in my career and not because I was stellar at it, is because I was not great at it and I had to learn have really good meeting agendas so that you don't waste people's time.

Be prepared. And, only talk about the highest and greatest things that a group together needs to talk about. Reporting can be done over email. So I think it's both the tactics in terms of how you facilitate, and it's also the tactics for how you regulate yourself that deeply matter. Yes. And I would say like I talk about the three different types of self care that I think every person needs.

And I say that it's regular self-care, it's responsive self-care, and they're restorative. And for this purpose, I'll talk about restore responsive self-care. So that's basically coping either preco or coping during, and oftentimes what I'm teaching my clients to do is to, if, this is going to be a challenging meeting.

Do some walking, stretching, meditating, breathing beforehand. If you know that there are a couple of people who are going to have pointed comments, in addition to addressing those comments have some clear words that you're going to say some responses already prepped so that you can offer that.

What I would also say is one of the things that I do is go into organizations and help them develop their mental health policies and programming. Help them to really think strategically about utilizing their employee assistance provider or engaging one, I would say, resource folks with those types of support because.

Everything is better when people feel better. Yes, indeed. Without the supports, we shouldn't have to ask for them and hurt ourselves trying to reach a goal and then say it's really hard and now I'll ask for it. I mean, we should just all start off with the supports. Yeah. Or know where to go when you need them.

Yes. And you need to know they exist before you need them. When I think about managing people and all the things that come up, like you're saying, like how you present in your own regulation or lack thereof of regulation meaning emotional regulation when you're leading a meeting is contagious.

I never thought I would be, use my kids so much as an example, but I have learned so much about people management from raising small kids who give a lot of feedback. And if I am regulated, they can be regulated. When I'm dysregulated, why give out any orders? It's gonna be useless. Yeah. If you wanna bring a strong, sturdy leader.

Yeah. And if you're around any young people, it's really good practice because what you give out is what you're gonna get back. Yeah. Yeah. And certainly, I mean, certainly. We have gone through a series of challenges nationally and internationally for an extended period of time. And so it's not always easy for folks to be regulated.

And so I don't wanna diminish, I don't wanna diminish that. And yet we still, often are meeting our personal, familial and cultural needs by working. And so I think it's that both, and it's looking for slices where you can resource yourself given what you, your team, your organization.

Is coping with. One thing, since we're on this topic of self-care, I wanna add here two books that you have written that go directly to the how. Yeah. How are we gonna slow down? How are we gonna regulate? How can we give ourselves the self-care that we deserve and should probably be doing more often than we are not?

Can you talk to us a little bit about what people can find. In, in your books? Yes. Yes. So in my first book, better Daily Self-Care Habits, I, take folks through the process of really using the habit loop and using our brain and physiology to support creating habits around self-care and also how to, mitigate quote unquote bad habits. What I have found is that we have been taught that self care is bubble baths and right vacations and spas and rooming activities. And so what I do in both books is really. Widen folks awareness about what self-care looks like, and it looks like taking care of your emotional health, your physical health and wellbeing, your relational health and wellbeing supporting your brain helping you to engage in activities that, that support healthy aging.

And then my second book is a really accessible. Open it up and here's an idea for how you can take care of yourself. Here's the amount of time, here are the activities so that you can figure out what you can access in the moment and what you can plan. And I have been really pleased that what.

Folks tell me that my books do for them is open them up to their internal life and how to pay attention to their needs. It's helped folks to start therapy. It's helped folks to set firmer boundaries in their lives. And and my second book, I'm really proud, has a professional self-care section that has some nuggets from my career coaching and counseling life.

Excellent. That's, those are the books? Yes. Yes. Holidays are coming up, gift giving. These are really great books to just, emphasize the importance of self care to the people you love in your life. Love that. I love that. If there was one piece of advice you could give our audience before we sign off today that the one piece of advice will tie back to the thing that I said earlier. One of the things, one of the lies that oppression, oppressive structures tells us is that there is no time for the self. And you want to always balance self and community, we are not meant to be alone. And oftentimes the balance between ourselves and our work to create a better world is imbalanced.

And because we need most, what I would say is create a strategy, whether it is 5, 10, 30 minutes a day where you do something for yourself. Because the reality is that our physiology requires equilibrium. There are many circumstances that keep us from that equilibrium. So do something like in the morning when your cortisol is the highest, do something that's pleasurable.

I start my day reading before I have to give or do to others. And sometimes that means waking up a little bit earlier before the folks that you have caregiving responsibilities for. So I would say have a strategy for yourself. Start small and build up. That's what I would offer. Thank you. I was supposed to do some self-care breathing this morning, but after this I'm gonna lay out my yoga mat and do it now.

I'm very inspired to get it done. Perfect. I really appreciate you Dr. Cecily Bra. Dr. Sicily, Horsham, braw, thank you very much. You can find Sicily at Dr. Sicily bra weight on all socials and her website, cicely bra.com where you'll find her books and all sorts of other information and great nuggets there.

Thank you so much for your time and everybody, we will be back in two weeks with another amazing guest. Thank you for joining me. See you later. Thank you. Bye-bye.

 Thanks for joining us on Everyday Equity, everyday Ways to make a change. If today's conversation inspired you, keep the momentum going. Connect with us on LinkedIn at boundlessawareness. Subscribe to our YouTube at boundlessawareness and explore more free resources to support your anti-oppression journey @boundlessawareness.com

Remember, progress isn't about perfection. It's about showing up every day with curiosity, compassion. And the courage to do a little better. I'm Pooja Kothari and I can't wait to keep learning and growing with you right here on everyday equity.