S3 Ep 4- Everyday Equity: Everyday Ways to Make a Change with Swati Parikh Founder of Greater Good Careers

In this Episode Pooja Kothari speaks with Swati Parikh, founder of Greater Good Careers and a career and leadership coach for mission-driven professionals and lawyers. They discuss the challenges of career transitions, especially for public interest lawyers who feel stuck, burned out, or unsure of their next step.

Swati shares insights on navigating the job search process, negotiating offers, and addressing equity issues in hiring. The conversation also explores her background as the child of Indian immigrants, how early experiences shaped her commitment to equity, and why aligning your career with your values can create more meaningful work and impact.

Transcript

 Welcome to Everyday Equity, everyday Ways to make a change. The show that brings real conversations about fairness, compassion, and progress into our everyday lives. I'm Pooja Kothari and each week I sit down with guests from all kinds of industries and backgrounds to talk about what equity looks like, not just in their work, but in their daily choices and personal journeys.

Because building a more equitable world isn't just for academics, activists, or experts. It's for all of us every day in big ways and small. We can choose to be more aware, more kind, and more connected, and this is where we learn how.

 Welcome everybody. Back to Everyday Equity. Today's guest is someone I've been looking forward to speaking to since last year. Swati Parikh, founder of Greater Good Careers. She is a career and leadership coach for mission driven professionals and lawyers. Swati, it's so great to have you here. Before we get started, I actually wanted, I was trying to remember how we met.

And how we got connected, and I know it was through LinkedIn, but is, was there any other connection?

I think we have a lot of mutual friends, so I had you know, admired your work and seen you speak and so I had, I think I had reached out

Oh,

just excited to talk to

that's awesome.

Yeah.

great.

Yeah. 

That's great. Yeah, I love that. You know, the community is, is so big and you know, it's so funny on LinkedIn, you know, which is kind of like you know, the, where the professionals kind of hang out on, on social media, but it actually has driven, so many people. I, I've met so many people, I've made so many friendships and connections through it.

So I, I know it's kind of like nerd alert, you know, here is, here's LinkedIn. But, 📍 

It's,

but I've met so many, like similar minded people, like more so than any, I feel like any other place. So I feel like we go, like, you know, we've been talking for so long that I forgot, like how, how we first met. 

Think that's how we met, but I'm not sure.

yeah.

I, I totally meet people on LinkedIn and find people. I just, I spend a lot of time on LinkedIn and then I find people who are doing interesting things and I was like, I'm gonna talk to this person. Let me reach out. And so I do.

Yeah. Yeah. And you know, I also took that, that I took that note from you and I also started reaching out to people and or whenever I connected with someone, I just thought , let's just, let's do more than just like be a number of like. You know, adding to like the number of connections you have.

So I reach out like every, anyone who connects with me, I'm like, all right, well now you sound signed up to get to know me. So you're gonna get to know me at least for like 15, 30 minutes because you just never know. Like it could, you could end up being a guest on, on our podcast. So.

know.

Yeah. Okay, so I was saying you're the founder of Greater Good Careers.

I wanna know more about that. What is it? How did it come about? What do you do? 

Yes. Thank you. Thank you again for having me. I run a career and leadership coaching business, as you mentioned, greater good careers, and I've, I started that after having worked in law school career services for many years. I've been working at New York Law School for the past 15 years, and before that I was a public interest lawyer and I had enjoyed being a public interest lawyer, but what I enjoyed even more was really advising and developing people's careers. And running our internship program and pro bono programs. And after some time of working in law school career services, I wanted to find a new modality and a way to work with professionals. And so I got a coaching certification and started this business as a way to work with mid-career professionals and help them figure out what it is they wanna do with their careers, how they can develop some confidence around making big transitions and helping them with the. Things like resume review and mock interviews and you know, just working through some difficult work situations and figuring out what's next for them.  

Yeah. Yeah, that's really great because you know, we don't stay. In the same job for 40, 50 years,

Right?

and we haven't been doing that for, you know, the last 20 years. And it is really daunting to, as you know, a person in your forties to switch careers and do something completely different. And then, you know, I felt that way when, you know, I left legal aid.

And I was, you know, only doing criminal defense work, which is just so siloed and specific, and I just felt like. Don't get me wrong. Tons of people move into civil work and seamlessly, but for me it felt very daunting. Like, I don't know anything except criminal law. I don't know anything except the CPL, the criminal procedure law.

Like, I don't know anything and how can I even transition to anything else? It felt really, really scary. When I started Boundless Awareness and I left and I was like, I mean, and even now, you know, I think like. Gosh, I wish I had, you know, some, some legal experience that was outside of the criminal sector.

And I had gained more experience and I probably would've benefited from talking to somebody like you. But what are the common, you know, fears or insecurities or anxieties that people come to you with, you know, when they're like, all right, I've been in this job for seven years. I've been in this job for 12 years.

I don't know where to go now. Or even how to break in to a, a different sector.

Yeah, e exactly what you said. A lot of it is uncertainty about what's possible. So you do the same job, you go to law school and you think, this is the only job I wanna do. Most people who become public defenders, that's all they've ever thought about. And it's what they do all their internships in

Yeah.

to. Work and you know, it's great for a while, but then after a while it can become draining. Or you can feel like, is this what life is that I'm gonna spend the rest of my life doing the, the same thing over and over again? Or you hit frustrations with the system. I imagine when you were in public defender it was really hard. Just dealing with your clients, getting incarcerated, cycling through the system, not getting the support they needed, and feeling like you wanna do something different in a way that's more effective in serving your clients or the community that you wanna work in.

That's that. That's exactly it. Yes.

you also hit the roadblocks of institutions and nonprofits can be really poorly run. and so a lot of my clients work in places where they don't feel supported or they have a, a supervisor who's really difficult or there's no room for advancement. Or they're just stuck and bored with what they're doing. So a lot of different reasons that people come to me, and the biggest challenge for us is figuring out what's next. And then after you've been in a job for so long, say you've been somewhere for 10 years, you know, you haven't been in the job search process for so long, you know, you have no idea where to get started. So that's a lot of what I talk to my clients about too.

Right. How do you stay up to date with all of that? Because I'm sure so much has changed of like how you're supposed to. Put your heading on your cover letter. You know, like, I, I really, you, we never thought about, I mean, at least I never thought about like, oh, of course I can put my home address on a,

Yeah.

resume or cover.

I mean, it feels ridiculous. Now to think that like I was giving out my home address to Reroll.

that's an, it's funny that you mentioned that because that's an equity issue and a lot of that is always evolving, right? And they don't want people to have bias against people because you put your address on your resume.

Completely. Can you talk a little bit more about that so that everyone knows what you, what you mean?

yeah. So people can get discriminated against based on where they live. So if you were, if you live in a neighborhood that may be low income or, you know, has. A reputation for some reason or another, an employer could look at that and be like, oh, I don't wanna hire someone from this neighborhood.

Mm-hmm.

You know? it could lead to, oh, that person lives in my neighborhood and I have a bias towards people who live in my

Mm-hmm.

And they have the same wealth and privilege and, you know, classes I do. So it's like a, you know, I forget what the exact word is, but you know, it's like picking someone who has the same background

Yeah, like, like attracts like, so like you know, you wanna see yourself reflected

Mm-hmm.

even if, even if, if it's, and it's usually unconscious. I mean, like, of course it can be intentional, but you do. Think like, well, I'm pretty good.

Yeah. And so I wanna work with someone who's exactly like me, exactly. You had asked about how I stay up to date on these things. A lot of it is just working with job seekers for so long. You see the trends that are changing and things that are new. And then also I go to a lot of conferences. I am on a lot of lift serves.

I read a lot. In, you know, the news about what's happening for job seekers. You know, for, for example, like right now, AI is the big topic, so I read a lot about that and how that's impacting the job search and the process. So

Yeah.

staying, you know, on top of what those, the themes are and what's happening.

Yeah. Yeah. You know, I thought about that in, in when I was in law school and I would go to my career services center and. You know, I just think that job, that job is so hard 'cause you have hundreds of students coming to you being like, I don't know what I should do. Or like, I don't know how to get this job.

Or, you know, it's a, you know, on campus interviewing situation and you know, it's dependent on your rank and the class and, and you know, if you don't fit that mold, like then where do you go? How was that experience at, at New York Law School and, and, you know, counseling and a probably consoling students?

Yeah.

I mean, it's a tough job. Can you, can you, because I feel like people really don't understand how hard that job is. Can you talk a little bit about it?

Sure. So I think it takes a unique person to really like this work. It's not for everyone. I think some people see it as like, oh, it's an easy job because I'm not practicing as a lawyer anymore, you know? But there are challenges. And first is the number of students that I'm responsible for. So on any given year, I'm responsible for about 300 students and helping them find a job. Second is teaching everything that I know about the job search process and how complicated it is to students and them actually hearing it and wanting to do all that work. 'cause it can be a hustle, you know, to find a job. We make working really hard in this country, especially if you want to find a job that is, you know, pays well, respects you, you know, is. Aligned with what you studied and what you wanna do. So it can be a complicated process and it requires you to get out of your comfort zone often. So students are often

Yeah.

with the fact that you had to go and network or talk to people.

Indeed.

yeah, or just put yourself out there in a pretty emotional way so

Yeah.

emotional.

You know, it, it's, it's hard in that way sometimes.

Yeah. And that's so true. And it, and it's so skewed or yeah, biased toward the extrovert.

It is,

So, you know, you gotta shake hands and rub elbows and and then deal with all the other, like, racism, classism, sexism. The sexual harassment that, that students have to go through to just meet employers is just, it's, I think people really underestimate how rampant that is.

And and then go to. The lunches or the the, the public interest fairs hand out your resume like you're really hawking yourself. I mean, it takes a really extrovert personality who I, it's really hard. I can't believe they make us do, make us do that.

and they make you go through so many hoops just to get a job, you know? I mean it's understandable from the employer perspectives. They want a good person who's gonna do a good job, who's gonna be a fit for the office, you know, and get along with colleagues and things. But we, we set that bar really high.

In order to get these jobs, you might have to go through four or five rounds of interviews. Do a presentation, show your expertise? I don't think it's always been this hard. I think we've made it harder.

Mm.

and we want people who like, have like extreme passion for the work and it has to be the thing that they've wanted to do their whole lives.

You know, like we make people perform a lot in order to get a job, which can be hard.

yeah, yeah. And and then there's kind of this automatic bias for those who are like in the top 10% that they must be, they must be excellent lawyers because they got, you know, they know how to write. Which is important, but that's not what makes a great lawyer. So, okay, so let's, let's get this, this podcast is called Everyday Equity.

So let's get a little bit more into the equity part. How does it come into your life? Why is it important to you? And, and what are the like, I guess, applications in your in at Greater Good Careers?

So for me equity has always been a driving force in terms of wanting to, you know, pursue careers, pursue interests, just like think about my political leanings, everything around what is equitable and how to get people what they need. And so where it comes into my work is that my, my business, I called Greater Good Careers because I want. I wanna encourage and support people who are in professions that are helping professions, that are working towards equity, that are you know, providing opportunities. For bettering the communities that people live in. And for me that's been really important in career because it's so much of where we spend our lives.

And it has become a thing in the US where your career is your whole identity. It's like everything you are, and it's how you contribute on a day-to-day basis. And so I really wanna encourage people to pursue careers where they are serving the greater good where they are impacting equity and making our. You know, our world more, just more know, I, I keep saying equitable, but I, I don't know, like how else to say it

Yeah.

I, I wanna support and encourage people who are pursuing careers that their communities in positive ways.

Yeah, it's, it's really the antithesis of what is already out there, just like this hyper capitalist driven,

Right.

where's the next you know, badge that you can like sew onto your sash.

Yeah,

And you're like, you're like, no. How about we get you into a, a place that actually is welcoming for you, accessible for you, meaningful for you and not like taste the next like golden handcuffs, so to speak.

Yeah.

Exactly. And it's not that I'm judging people who pursue that. I understand different careers based on, you know, whatever their interests or their financial situation or their backgrounds, so. But I really align with the people who are choosing career paths that are aligned with their values and their vision for what the world should be.

And so that's what drives me.

Yeah. Yeah. And it, it's so, it's so great because what you do, because it's so hard to find. Someone who understands, you know, how the legal practice works, you know, in real life at law firms or, you know, NGOs, nonprofit organizations, and and then can match that with, with where a person is at. Okay.

So I wanna talk a little bit about your, you mentioned you were a public interest lawyer. Can you talk a little bit about what, where you were at, what you were doing, and how, if that impacted your take on equity?

It did. So I became a lawyer and went to law school 'cause I wanted to do public interest law. I, I think I had a, a vision for what it would be. I don't know that it ended up being exactly that,

Mm-hmm.

I, you know, I, I really wanted to help low income communities and, provide legal assistance, which I thought was a skill that I had developed that I could then utilize to help people in need. And so I did all my internships in housing law. It was an area I, I kind of fell into it a little bit, but. that really interested me. And so I worked at an organization called Housing Conservation Coordinators after I graduated from law school, which is a very small community organization in Hell's Kitchen. And it's very focused on tenant advocacy and tenant organizing. And it was my first time living in New York City. This was 2005. And it was. A unique time in New York City. I think because we were just at the moment where New York City was gonna become like totally unaffordable

Yeah.

I

Right.

was, but at that point, landlords were really evicting as many people as possible in else's kitchen because it was hot. Property in Manhattan. And so my clients had lived in New York City for many generations. Most of them, and a lot of them were artists in Hell's Kitchen, you know, it's near Broadway. So many of them were in the art space. Others were, you know, just people who had lived for generations in that neighborhood, which had struggled for many years.

But now if you go to Hell's Kitchen, it's, it's not it's been totally gentrified at this point, but at the time, you know, there were still a lot of rent stabilized tenants, a lot of tenants who were in rent control apartments. And so my job was to represent them, when they were facing eviction, either because their landlords were harassing them and trying to get them out of their apartments.

They were struggling to pay their rent or for various reasons you know, different reasons that they were trying to evict them. So

Yeah.

I, I learned so much about New York City and the many layers of bureaucracy that you have to get through in order to get support and resources in this city.

Yeah.

I, I don't think that lawyering was the right path for me necessarily. And so I feel like I've pursued instead like a lawyer adjacent kind of career path after that, you know, running pro bono programs and running the public interest career office at the law school.

Now there's the Hudson Yards is, is near there. Right.

Yes.

And that's

It's so wealthy. Yeah. When I was at HCC, the tenant organizers were fighting the stadium that was gonna come to Hudson Yards. 

Oh wow.

push to build a stadium there for the Olympics to come to New York City,

Oh,

but that didn't happen as a result of community

thank

who

goodness.

back. Yeah,

Wow. Thank you to those organizers. Oh my god. Can you even imagine

Mess? Yeah. Very grateful. You know what's so funny about movement work just on this very specific thing is that these successes sometimes are about avoiding things and you don't because you can't see what was avoided.

You know, you can't, you can't be thank, you know, people kind of forget, and then you're like, it's hard to be thankful towards the, to the movement, to the organizers, to the community who made sure that didn't happen. 'cause like, you can't see a negative, you can't like see that it's not there.

sure. Now there's Hudson Yards there, but yeah, it could have been a massive cluster, with a stadium. Yeah,

Right. Right. Okay. Well so, oh gosh, you had just said something that I was yeah, so, you know, when I when I talk about in my own like workshops, I talk about like why I got into legal aid, why I became a public defender. And you know, I say like, you know, there that it was, Liberty is the most important human right for me.

But you know, when you're talking, there's so many human rights, you know, housing, for example, healthcare, Liberty, all of these are human rights, food, you know, welfare not having your kids taken from you. Housing is such an important human right. So it it, and it's such also because it's so difficult and you're fighting the capitalism and the landlords and it's a, it's a high burnout position.

You have to have a real, a similar to being a public defender, just really, really hard. So I can see how that, like, just seeing all that inequity. All the inequality, all the ways that people, people's homes were valued more than the people who live in it, which is the world we live in can affect your sense of equity, can really influence it to see the world for actually how it, how it actually works instead of I think maybe these rose colored glasses that people tend to tend to put on if they're not in like human rights work.

Yeah, I think I was very idealistic when I went to law school and thinking that. I represented tenants, I could get justice for them, which I did in many instances. But it's a long game. It's a really long game, and I, I, I, you know, feel a little like sad that I didn't stick with it a little bit because I think I, I could have gained a lot from continuing to help clients in learning how to be a better advocate.

In two years, you can't really learn that much. But I just trusted my gut in that moment, and I knew that this was not what I wanted to do for the long term.

Yeah,

I'm so glad I did it as my first job. And I learned so much, but it just, I, it, it felt like civil public defense in some ways. You know, you're defending people's house.

It is, it is a human, right.

of course. Yes. Yes.

Mm-hmm.

And the, the, I just had it at the top of my head. One second.

All right. It left me

It's okay.

rat.

to me all the time.

Okay, so talk to me a little bit about, you know. Growing up and anything like in, in your childhood or your adolescence, that kind of also gave you a sense of equity because, or what and, and what equity means to you. Because to go to law school to become a public interest lawyer, something must have happened before that to influence you to go in that way.

So I'm interested to know.

Yeah, so I'm the child of Indian immigrants. They came to the US in the seventies because of a friend who was living here already, they ended up in central Pennsylvania which is a very conservative and religious and white area. So we were. Then we ended up moving to an even smaller town when I was growing up.

So originally they were in Harrisburg and then they moved to a really small town, Waynesboro. And when I tell New Yorkers about where I grew up, it just like blows their mind because they just can't understand what it's like there. But was, it was hard being one of like a handful of people of color in a town that's 90% white. And I've been in those spaces where it's, you know. Extreme majority white. But I think what compounded it was that it was super religious. It was very evangelical Christian, and it was also conservative. You know, now it's very much Trump country. My parents are still there. And, it was like, I, I think it really shaped who I am as a person. So I don't think I, if I had to go back, I don't know that I would change any experience about having lived there. But I, I was, I, I, I don't think I faced like discrimination necessarily, but I think I faced otherness. Like I, I was treated as like very odd and you know, my parents were conservative in their own ways and, traditional.

And so, they didn't really understand what I was going through. So that was the challenge, you know, of just like adjusting to being one of a few people of color in a town and also having parents who, were wonderful, you know, and supportive, but didn't really understand what I was going through at the same time. So I had an older sister though, who was very supportive. So like, you know, she's my best friend. But yeah, it really defined who I am as a person and it really made me see inequity and racism at an early age. You know,

Yeah.

pretty, it's a pretty racist area too.

Mm-hmm.

so. That just made me angry.

I think growing up and going to law school was like a way to channel that anger in some ways.

Yeah, yeah. You know, our parents, my parents have a, a similar trajectory, and I also have an older sister who is also my best friend.

And I just feel like we're very lucky to have, you know, sister, one sisters and two like a sisterhood, a sister relationship like that. And it's true, you know, like our parents, there's just no way for them to understand, kind of like the in-between that we had to grow up in.

Neither here nor there not anything enough. You're not American enough, you're not Indian enough. But you know, having an older sister who had to experience that before you,

Yeah.

you know, is such a gift to be the younger sibling. 

Totally.

It was much harder for her, for

yeah, much harder and, and totally different, totally different experience.

You know, we don't talk, I feel like enough of like the benefits that younger siblings inherently get. Just by

Have you

luck.

Hassan Minaj skit on that? He talks about how he's the older sibling and he's like, I went to war for

Oh

yes,

his younger sister, and you don't even understand what I've gone through.

I have seen it. That's hilarious. Yeah, it is. I mean, I I think it puts into words what a lot of older siblings must be feeling.

All right. Exactly.

Yeah. So yeah, I mean, we got to see a lot of, and we, you know, having been born here. Without our parents really understanding what we would be going through, you know, but without, they couldn't see the future of like how we would be treated being in a, in majority.

And as you said, and I also grew up in this similar area, extreme majority white spaces that they can't like prepare you because they don't know what it's like, so they can't tell you like, Hey, if you ever feel like you don't really understand your identity, like, I wanna help you. You know, like understand, you know, this is who you are, you know, and take pride in it and all this stuff.

And I remember my dad said to me once, 'cause I, I was having like this identity crisis, I was like, maybe mid teenage years. And he's like, you're so lucky you're both. And I was like, I don't even understand what that means. I feel like I'm neither.

Uhhuh.

I feel the lack of it. And he's looking at me like, you have, like, you're so rich, and you're like, what we brought you up with that you have this American side that, you know, you're like, you're full of riches.

And for me, I was like, I'm full of like, what's the opposite of that? You know, like,

Sure. Yeah. I, I

yeah.

see that now as an adult, I feel like living in New York City, I totally feel very lucky to have both of those,

Yeah.

experiences and mindsets. But growing up it's really challenging, you know? And I was also just like nerdy and, you know, I didn't really fit in. And so it was hard. but I, I think it gave me strength at the same time, you know, like, and. A feeling that I can, I can handle anything, you know, I can handle any person and anything as a

Hmm mm-hmm.

I'm grateful for that.

Yeah. Yeah. I feel a similar gratitude. I, I do feel the richness of it now.

Mm-hmm.

as a kid, it's so uncertain.

Yeah.

Oh boy. Okay. So I so okay, let's say somebody wants to find you, who is like a very typical client of yours. How do they find you? What are they asking from you? Tell us a little bit about kind of like that intake process, so to speak.

So they can find me@greatergoodcareers.com or on LinkedIn, Swathi Par. And I, there's a form that you can fill out on my website and I'll just get back to you and we can schedule a time for a consultation. I I work with a broad range of clients, but primarily they're public interest, public service lawyers, and they're trying to figure out what's next in their career. They've tried maybe to apply for some job. But they're kind of struggling or they're in a situation that they just feel really stuck and they can't get out of. And so I will do an initial consultation, we'll see if it's a good fit, and then we work together to start over eight sessions where I do an intake session where we really get clear on what it is you want.

We create a, a vision for what your career is and what you wanna do next. We work through any challenges that you're facing, either in your current role. Or in the confidence that you have for pursuing this next position. And then I do things like editing resumes, cover letters, preparing for interviews and just being a sounding board and a cheerleader throughout the process. It can be a pretty emotional process to search for a job. And so a lot of what I do is really listening being supportive. Being empathetic. And I think by processing out loud what someone is going through, they really see benefits from coaching, I think. So the idea behind coaching is that I'm not meant to give advice.

It's the clients that are coming to me and they are figuring out what they need. But I'm a guide and a support system throughout. But I, I do give some advice because I have a, you know, a background in career advising. So I use, I use that expertise and that knowledge of the legal services and, government world to advise people and help them find the next position. And often I, I use my network to introduce them to people as well.

Amazing, amazing. Your career and leadership coaching program. Can you talk a little bit about that?

So that is essentially what I talked about. So it is these eight sessions and where we work through you know. I'm sorry. Maybe we should cut this part out 'cause I don't,

Okay.

repeating

Sorry about that. Yeah,

that's

it. I got

Was there anything,

the time.

maybe, is there something that you wanted to focus on that I didn't focus on

Let's see.

Let's talk about negotiating offers. Can you talk about that part of, of the coaching program? So let me ask you that question.

Okay.

Okay.

wanna ask him? Yeah.

So okay, so let's say, so someone comes, comes to you, they get into your career and leadership coaching program, or you help them find, you know, what are they're looking for help them network, resume cover letter interviews.

Now it's time they get the job offer. Like, is your part over or do you continue helping help, help Do you continue helping them throughout that process?

I do help them throughout that process. So I I am very hands-on with my clients and I really guide them through all of these processes. So I I suggest taking a measured approach when dealing with an offer. So not to immediately accept and to really think through about whether or not this is what you want, first of all, and then think about how you can negotiate the best offer. So I think a lot of public interest lawyers are used to not getting paid very well. So for example, I was just working with a client who's interviewing for an executive director role at a nonprofit, and the recruiter asked her, how much do you wanna make? And, she was like, oh, I don't know. You know, whatever you offer, I'll be fine with.

And I was like, no, don't say that. You have to negotiate and you gotta play. Like you have to pretend you're the boss in that situation, right? And so you play a part when you are negotiating an offer. So if they say, you know, what kind of salary do you wanna make in New York? Their salary transparency. So they had to post it on the, on the listing anyway. And so you could say, well, you know, I saw what the range

Mm-hmm.

I'd be curious to see what you can offer outside of that, or within that range or outside of that range. And then they'll be like, well, we need a number from you. And then you could say, you know, I'm flexible and I really want to, hear what you're able to offer. I wanna go through the interview process first, see what's expected of me in this role, and then if we get to that point, I'd really love to hear again what's possible for the organization, and then we can negotiate from there.

I did not expect that. Okay. Yeah, it's like being hard to get like, no. Yeah, I,

Yeah.

Thanks for asking twice, but no, you're not gonna get a number from me.

Yeah.

That's so hard for public interest lawyers. You are right. I mean, because you're like, fuck anything.

Yeah, just give me whatever you can. I mean, most of the time there's a range and they're gonna pay you something in that range, you know? But you wanna try and get to the top of the range because you deserve it. And if you can think about all the things that you are bringing to the table and what you offer and how you're gonna transform this particular. Role or how you have a vision for the work that you're gonna be doing, then absolutely. Ask for the high number.

Gosh. Okay. So I love that example because that happens even before you go through that whole process. I mean, this is a recruiter who's working on behalf of the employer.

Right,

They're not working for you.

right.

And I think and correct me if I'm wrong, but I think, you know, recruiters are very personable and it could be like you'd be a great fit and they try to like, kind of create this, liaison or relationship that, you know, you feel like maybe I can trust this person and say like, all right, I, I, I hope I'm making, you know, like $70,000 a year. They're like, great, that sounds perfect, you know?

Yeah.

And you can't get caught in that trap of being like a, of saying what your number is.

Exactly. And the whole thing with not accepting on the spot is that again, you do wanna play a little bit hard to get I mean, you wanna be gracious and you wanna thank them for the offer and say, thanks so much. I really am grateful for this. I'd like some time to think, you know, and then you come back to them with like questions around like the salary and negotiating at that point.

Yeah, so that's something you practice with your clients because I can imagine the like rush of happiness you would get. After maybe like a drought of not ha not getting interviewed, you know, and then you finally get interviewed. You finally get this job offer and like your emotions can get the best of you.

they can. Yeah, definitely. And, but I think should always ask for more money. There is no harm in asking for more money. They could say no,

Yeah.

but. A reasonable amount, you know, $10,000 more than whatever they're offering, I think is reasonable.

Yeah. And if you don't ask, it's already a no.

Yes, exactly. And they think if you don't ask that, you're fine with whatever they're gonna give you. So

Yeah.

expressing what your value is.

Yeah. Yeah. This, this is so, this is so great. I wanna end today by asking you, you know, if you could give a little tip or tool to our audience members who are listening to this conversation and maybe thinking about equity and such a different way, like, as you have positioned it in, you know, in seeking out a job, in job descriptions, in you know, how interviews can go into the biases throughout all of that, you know, not putting your address on the resumes.

If you could give a tip for someone who's kind of just entering this conversation of like, oh, what is, you know, I wanna think a little bit more about equity, but I'm not sure where to start. What are, what's something you can offer to guide someone just getting into this?

So I think being aware of, well, first of all, what equity is and doing a lot of reading, you know reading the news, being up to date on the current issues both nationally in the world and in your community is a great start. And then think about how you wanna contribute specifically. So. Each of us has a role to play.

If we want to be live in an equitable world, in an equitable community, we have to be responsible ourselves. So I think thinking about what, how your specific gifts and talents can play well to, serving your community, serving the world that you live in, I think is a great first place to start.

Yeah. Love that. Love that. Swati, it's been great to to have you on today. I've learned so much even in, in industry that I'm not really involved in, you know, the job seeking and, and career coaching. But I have learned so much from you already. So thank you so much. Greater good careers.com.

Find Swati on LinkedIn. And we'll put all of your links in our show notes. It's been really great talking to you. Thank you so much for your time.

Thanks so much. This has been great. 

 Thanks for joining us on Everyday Equity, everyday Ways to make a change. If today's conversation inspired you, keep the momentum going. Connect with us on LinkedIn at boundlessawareness. Subscribe to our YouTube at boundlessawareness and explore more free resources to support your anti-oppression journey @boundlessawareness.com.

Remember, progress isn't about perfection. It's about showing up every day with curiosity, compassion, and the courage to do a little better. I'm Pooja Kothari, and I can't wait to keep learning and growing with you right here on everyday equity.