Everyday Equity: Storytelling as Activism with Nia Clark

What if telling your story wasn't just personal — it was political?

Host Pooja Kothari sits down with Nia Clark, senior specialist at the Human Rights Campaign Foundation, to explore storytelling as a form of nonviolent activism.

Nia draws a direct line from the lunch counter protests of the civil rights movement to the storytelling work she leads today through HRC's Voices for Equality program and shares how as a homeless 18-year-old Black trans woman, she used her own story to change her future.

This Pride Month, when LGBTQ+ stories are being celebrated and legislated against in the same breath, this conversation hits differently.

New episode. Listen now.

Transcript

 Welcome to Everyday Equity: Everyday Ways to Make a Change, the show that brings real conversations about fairness, compassion, and progress into our everyday lives. I'm Pooja Kothari, and each week I sit down with guests from all kinds of industries and backgrounds to talk about what equity looks like, not just in their work, but in their daily choices and personal journeys. Because building a more equitable world isn't just for academics, activists, or experts, it's for all of us. Every day, in big ways and small, we can choose to be more aware, more kind, and more connected, and this is where we learn how Introduction 

Hi, everybody. Welcome back to Everyday Equity: Everyday Ways to Make a Change. I'm your host, Pooja Kothari, and with me today is Nia Clark, a guest that I have wanted on here for a very long time, and I'm so happy it's happening today. Welcome, Nia. 

 Hello. Thank you for having me on. I'm so excited to...  We finally made this happen. I know. I know. This has been, like, years in the making. Um, so Nia Clark, MSW, has spent 20 years changing systems from within as a consultant, trainer, direct service provider, researcher, and LGBTQ+ youth advocate. She's currently a senior specialist of strategic outreach and training at Human Rights Campaign Foundation, where she creates and facilitates programming such as Voices for Equality, a training series that empowers LGBTQ+ ad- uh, advocates and allies to change the hearts and minds of others by sharing powerful personal stories with intention She was additionally a contributing author to Oxford University's 2022 textbook publication, Social Work Practice with the LGBTQ Community: The Intersection of History, Health, Mental Health, and Policy Factors, second edition. 

A record-breaking three-time Point Foundation scholar, Nia obtained her master's degree in advanced clinical social work from Simmons University in Boston. Nia, I'm so happy to have you here, and I remember actually the moment, um, that I got an email from Ted Farley introducing us, which was almost five years ago. Yes. Um, and we were both involved in Point Foundation.

So actually, let's, let's start there. I wanna get all into HRC, but I wanna start with Point Foundation and, um, how we were both involved with it. So I was there as a mentor, and Ted was the CEO at that time, I think, or maybe COO. Yes, I believe was the COO, yeah. COO Chief operating officer, mm-hmm. Right. And then, um, and then you two knew each other from Point. So can you tell me a little bit about all of your experience with Point Foundation? Yeah.

 Nia's Journey with Point Foundation So at the time, so back in 2017, um, I was running a mentoring program in Los Angeles at the Los Angeles LGBT Center. The program was called LifeWorks, and it was one of the very few LGBTQ+ mentoring programs for queer, questioning, and ally youth ages 24 and under. And so I decided to have a summit, um, for young people, an educational summit, and invited Point Foundation to come and present on, uh, a new scholarship that they were offering to, um, to young people. And actually, there was no age requirement. 

So they came, uh, Ted Farley came, uh, Darren Wilstead actually came and presented to the youth on Point Foundation's brand new community college scholarship program. And, uh, a lot of, you know, the young people really excited. And I mentioned just in passing that I myself was, uh, attending college. Um, I had a really rocky time in school. I had already dropped out- About three times from college, just having been a former foster youth, um, not really having the discipline and the financial or, you know, emotional support to get through, um, a college program. 

So I tried for the... This was the third time I was trying school, and I was attending Los Angeles Community College. And just in passing, I mentioned this to Ted and to Darren, and found out that there was no age requirement to apply for that community college scholarship. Oh. So I actually was part of either the first or second, um, class of Community College Scholars ever for Point Foundation. Um, I was able to get enough credits to, uh, finish my community college program and transfer to Cal State, uh, University, Los Angeles, where I obtained my bachelor's in social work, and I was able to secure yet another Point Foundation scholarship to finish that program And then I decided, uh, to keep going, and I, um, was able to find a one-year, uh, clinical intensive, uh, social work program in Boston, where I'm originally from, at Simmons University And Point Foundation literally, like w- were able to support me for that additional year. So I am the first, um, through the Point Foundation family to actually be financially supported from community college through a master's program. Yeah. Yeah. 

That's, that is so... I'm, you know, I'm smiling because you mentioned, um, um, discipline and- Mm-hmm ... you know, getting through college, but it's like- M- you have to have a lot of determination to try three times Yes. And it, you know, I think the difference this time around was I, I had, I had something in me that s- wanted to see the mission through, and this idea of getting not only financial support, but a mentor. I was able to actually, just like yourself, like you were men- a mentor in the program, I received mentorship from Sarah Young, um, who was, uh, co- is a college professor in New York And Sarah, who, um, just was able to really offer really sound advice on being a social work student, um, helped me to kind of craft my essays for scholarships. 

She also, uh, wrote letters of recommendation for my college programs for the Point Foundation scholarship. Um, and we actually met up in New York, um, back in 2023 over the holidays and... 2022, excuse me, and just had an opportunity to connect in person. Um, and she's offered that mentorship.

 She als- also offered me the opportunity to co-author, um, a chapter in the, the Oxford University textbook that I mentioned, um, social pra- Social Work Practice With LGBTQ+ Community. Um, so it was l- it was an eye-opening experience, and I think it was... Overcoming Imposter Syndrome & Academic Journey It was really pushing past imposter syndrome. Growing up the way that I did, um, so full disclosure, you know, I am a woman of transgender experience, um, and grew up in Boston, where the winters are really cold and the violence can sometimes be inescapable. And I had tried going to college right after, um, turning 18, and I did not have the family support. I did not have those support systems in place. Um, and so I had the brains, but not the know-how and not the discipline, like I was saying. Um, and I think the difference this time around was I knew and had a better sense of who I was. I fully affirmed myself, and I, I think I was able to push through the imposter syndrome. 

Sometimes Black and brown folks like us, you know, we are taking up space in places, uh, you know, that were not designed for us. Um, c- in, in academia is one, has been one of those places historically. And so you enter a space where people have more resources, people have more, um, you know, uh, stability. Um, you know, and me as someone who's experienced homelessness multiple times, that played a factor in me being able to finish school. The good thing is by the time I had, um, been involved with Point, by the time Point was able to financially support me, I had solid community connections. I was able to secure stable housing. I knew that I wanted to see the mission through. And I knew that if I was going to get this financial support, I had to do it in a very pragmatic way. So knowing that this bachelor's program, that if you graduate with your bachelor's in social work, you can enter advanced clinical study programs and finish your master's in a year. Mm. 

So I made that my strategy: get your bachelor's so you can secure a master's program, and that way you get it all done. So be- between the community college program and the master's program, I did it in five years, um, getting my bachelor's and my master's degree Yeah, yeah Mm-hmm ... it is the, it is, it's those supports that, um, combined with our own internal determination that can- Mm-hmm that, that can make all the difference. Um- Yes, absolutely ... but without those supports or access to those supports. And it's so funny because you brought Point into your life. Mm-hmm. You know? Like Yes ... you're, you're- And the- I've ridden quite a mile ... yes, and the be- yes. And the best thing is, like, I did not have any intention.

It was all, I, as a child welfare provider and as a youth-serving professional, I always, uh, you know, I've, I've been doing this work and, and training and, and direct service for, you know, since, like, the year after I aged out of foster care in 2005. And so I've been working with youth and young, young adults ever since. So I always saw resources, whether it be bringing people to share opportunities, uh, you know, about, um, you know, vocational opportunities, whether it be educational or funding opportunities, emergency grants, in-kind donations. I always saw that as my function, that I believe that anyone who works with or on, on behalf of underserved communities, your responsibility is to be a conduit of information. And I did not, I never framed that conversation, you know, internally to believe that I could also benefit from some of the resources that I was identifying for my own constituency, my own community. Mm. And once I was able to do that, you know, I was able to help my community more, and that's something I definitely want to encourage people to take up.

I had no plans on using Point Foundation for my own means, but the great thing is not only did I become a, a Point Foundation Scholar, they reached out to me to be a Point Foundation Community College, um, mentor. And so I actually was able to mentor, um, a 19-year-old, uh, Black trans girl, uh, in Oregon. Uh, and it was a full circle moment. I was able to use all of the skills that I had been training other people in mentoring programs, um, and in child welfare programs, and I was able to return that and provide an academic mentorship. So- Yeah ... yeah. That i- that's incredible because at that time when you were meeting Point for the first time, like you said, um, there was no Point Foundation scholarships. It was only for four-year degrees, li- uh, accredited univ- you know, it wasn't a, uh, for associate's or community college. And, um- And it's great that they've expanded there. Uh, one might think maybe you start there, and, uh, but it's great that they expanded. And then you, with your experience, of course you're the perfect mentor for that. And now I'm sure there's dozens more mentors, uh, since that program has been- Yes. 

And, uh, so I've continued my relationship with Point Foundation. I knew that I, I didn't, I may not have capacity to, um, you know, engage as fully in their alumni association and in alumni programming, but I have, now that I work at Human Rights Campaign, uh, you know, p- one of my roles in strategic outreach is to find, um, meaningful long-term partnerships that we can leverage and offer to the community. And so we are cont- we have continued to partner. So I have present, I have actually helped to plan their national leadership conferences. I've attended their national leadership conferences. I've delivered workshops at their leadership conferences. Um, right now we, uh, have, uh, we have introduced, uh, HRC has a new financial wellness app called Wor- uh, excuse me, Worth It, and it's the first of its kind. It is a, uh, an app that is web-based, no download is required, and it provides, like, really succinct financial literacy tools and information and goal planning for LGBTQ+ individuals. And so we have a current, uh, you know, agreement with Point Foundation to offer Worth It to all of their scholars who are kind of interacting with large sums of money for the first time through their scholarships, through financial aid. And, you know, that's such a precarious time for young people is w- you know, understanding loans, understanding credit, understanding repayment, um, and understanding how to budget so that you're able to afford your books, you're able to afford tuition and boarding, um, and all of the thing, all of the expenses that come with trying to better yourself academically and get an education. So we have an ongoing partnership with Point Foundation to extend Worth It to all of their scholars. Um, and many of them have used the app to save money, to budget, to improve their credit scores. Yeah. Totally. Mm-hmm. It's so funny 'cause it's a thing that you don't get taught at, at like in, in primary or middle school or especially high school, where you should, is where we should all learn budgeting. Yes. But we don't learn it. Yeah. And then we get out into the world and we're like, "Okay, I'm 18. I'm out in the world, and how do I do any of this?" Um, you know, I wanna, I wanna, um, kind of loop in- Right now, this, you know, your piece in The Advocate, which, um, you know, talks about that open mic night that you, uh, went to. Um, uh, so for our audience, Nia wrote this, um, uh, very powerful article in The Advocate, um, and we'll link it, uh, so you can also read it. But I, I wanna talk about, you know, it, speaking of what we're not prepared for when we, um, you know, become adults, can you talk to- about, um, what you write about, the open mic, um, what you talked about in the open mic, and then, you know, the support you received, um, afterwards, and- Yeah. So I, um, so like I said, The Open Mic Night That Changed Everything I spent, um, 14 years in the foster care system where I was placed in 15 different homes in two different states, both, uh, Massachusetts and Maryland. And upon turning 18, um, I went to my high school graduation, um, and that night, um, after the high school graduation, my, uh, foster mother gave me the boot. Um, I had to move... Uh, so I graduated from high school on a Thursday, and by the following Monday, I had no place to live. And so I was kind of couch surfing and trying to figure things out. And finally, a friend of mine, um, Jeffrey Braveheart, said, "You know, there's this open mic night and, you know, maybe you can go to that and just let folks know, like, you do have a plan." I had just been accepted to Salem State College, um, as a theater major. 

I had already put my financial package in. I had been awarded a scholarship specifically for foster kids. And so this is in June, and I had to figure out a way to secure housing, um, uh, you know, f- long enough to get into school. And so I went to, um, an open mic night, um, at a place called Spontaneous Celebrations in Boston. Shout out to the folks in Jamaica Plain. And I just remember walking through the door, this huge set of big, um, sky blue double doors, and walking into this huge room filled with people, and there was just so much buzz, and everyone is just kind of talking about how excited they are for this, you know, open mic, um, this poetry slam and performance slam. And so, you know, I walked up And I saw a list, and I believe that there are, were already six people in front of me on the lineup, and so I wrote my name down. And I just kinda sat there, and this had, th- this had not been my first, um, you know... 

Well, actually, no, this was, this was one of the f- the few story slams or poetry slams or slams that I'd ever been to. And, you know, I was used to attending and kind of seeing people p- perform. I had performed myself. But, um, this night I knew that I had to secure a place to live or I was gonna have to sleep on the street or find somewhere warm to stay. Um, and so they called my name, and, uh, the room kind of went blurry, and I got up on stage, and there was just, like, this sea of faces just call- kind of just waiting to see what I had to offer. And, um, I said, you know, "My name is Nia Desiree Clarke. I'm 18 years old, and I am homeless." And the room just fell completely silent. And, uh, at that point I wondered if I had, was making a mistake by, by saying this, and I felt so, like, naked and exposed, but I decided to keep going. And I said, "You know, I just got kicked out of my foster home by my foster mom. I just graduated high school last week, and I, I got into college.

 I got into, you know, college, and I just need a, a place to live. I have nowhere to go. And, um, I need to figure out housing for the next three months." And I said, "I will do anything. If... I will cook, I will clean, um, anything that I can, but I, I have a vision for myself. I know that I have a future for myself. I just need to get a place to live for the next three months. And if you can help me in any way, shape, or form, I really appreciate it." And this was... You know, I I, when I, I just remember, like, hanging the microphone up and feeling this wave of, of shame, and all the people that had been staring at me had just I really couldn't look them in the face. This, there's a, a kind of vulnerability it takes to admit to a group of complete strangers that you, you know, me, a, a Black trans teenager has no place to live, and I am relying completely on the queer community, the allies in that space, and the kindness of strangers to help me. And, you know, visually I'm just this Black kid, and, you know, nobody had to speak up. Nobody had to offer any help. Um, but anyways, I tried to get to my seat as quickly as possible because I couldn't look anybody in the eyes. I felt like I actually wanted to leave. 

Yeah. Um, but I ended up sitting right next to Jeffrey, my friend who brought me there. And as soon as I sat down, like, to my, um, astonishment and, and complete genuine surprise, people started getting up out of their seats, and they had these little pieces of paper. Um, people just were coming up to me, um, with little pieces of scraps of paper with their names and numbers, um, the dates, uh, on them as well and said, "You know, I can't offer you much, but you can stay at my place for a couple of days," or, "I am gonna be leaving the country for this whole month, and, you know, I was gonna sublet my place, but you can stay there," or, you know, um, "I'm, I'm house-sitting. Would you like to house-sit with me? Um, you, you know, I, I don't have much. You can sleep on the floor," or, you know, "If you need food, you know, let me know." And it was just kind of my hands were empty when I sat down, but- Yeah ... by the time I had finished those conversations, I had these two hands full of just, um, just opportunities and housing. And it was a very difficult three months, uh, to put all of that together. But after that three months, I was able to start, um, my freshman year at Salem State. Um, but that experience was, um ... After I went through that, I, and came out on the other side, I realized that, um- That vulnerability and my ability to tell my story is what changed my future. As someone who has, um, you know, engaged in survival sex work, um, as someone who did not grow up with, uh, legal parents for, you know, most of my childhood, it was, um, it was very hard to depend on strangers, but I had to push through that discomfort in order to have those needs met. And I ate a lot of different kinds of food. I went to, um, food pantries. I have had to live on powdered milk and powdered eggs. 

That summer was really tough. Um, but it taught me so much about myself, and it taught me survival in a very different way. It was one of the first times where I, I knew I didn't have as much control over my life, but I did have control over my narrative and my story, and that I was able to use that story to not only change my life but, um, change the lives of others. And so now, the, the big connection to that is, um, when I wrote that piece for The Advocate, it was on the heels of also writing a storytelling training. 

So, um, at Human Rights Campaign, my f- you know, one of my biggest projects there is a, a, a training called Voices for Equality: Storytelling as Activism Voices for Equality: Moving Hearts and Changing Minds Through Storytelling. And originally, the structure of the training was to provide some tools on the impact of storytelling, the importance of storytelling right now to effectuate change and to speak to the injustices, to disrupt false narratives about Black and brown folks, about trans folks, about women and femmes. Um, and so I wanted to figure out a way to provide, uh, this opportunity for folks to not only practice and build upon the stories they already have, but be able to share them in an immediate real-time way. And so a part of our training now is to include a slam. 

So once people finish our training, um, we provide them with a story slam opportunity so they can actually get up on a stage in front of a mic, just like I did when I was 18, and share and have that vulnerability and res- be able to receive community support in real time. So not only getting to practice, um, and, you know, fine-tune their stories, but share them in a community and get some real-time feedback and support. Yeah. I mean, it, it, it... even the way you tell... I mean, you're perfect for this. I mean, you're perfect in so many roles that you already have. But, like, the storytelling, I mean, is a serious business. And the way you tell your own life story is so strong, um, that it isn't, um you know, surprising that you touched so many people that night. Um, and even the way that you tell that story now, it's no surprise that, you know, you're in charge of Voices for Equality and Human Rights Campaign because the art of storytelling can transform our understanding of... I mean, we are all We're all so alike, and yet we think we are so different from each other. And the struggles are might be, um, might be very similar, might be very different. But, um, we are s- they all have the same thread throughout it, and it is through storytelling that we're reminded, oh, yeah, we are so much more alike. Um, and we belong to each other. You know? We... And let's not forget that we- we... We're not like these individuals, like, in, in these silos and vacuums just living our lives. We are responsible for each other as a community, and storytelling really reminds us of that. 

Yes, you're absolutely right. And storytelling also is something that is necessary in a time where there are false narratives. The- one of the, the biggest components of my storytelling training, Voices for Equality, is Envisioning LGBTQ+ Equality we ask participants to envision a world, to be able to describe it in detail, a world, um, when we achieve LGBTQ+ equality. So I ask, uh, participants, "What would school look like in a world where LGBTQ+ equality exists? What would our neighborhoods and communities look like? What would our public accommodations look like? What would our government and representative government look like? What about being LGBTQ+ in the workspace?" And I ask our participants, um, and you would be so surprised, not only by their answers, but by their aha moments, because many of us as LGBTQ+ people don't talk about our future. Yeah. 

We talk about the fight that we're in. Yeah. We talk about the policies that we need to, uh, you know, plan for, Project 2025, and how we're gonna fight against it. Yeah. And there's always a conversation around what needs to end, but we as a community don't always talk about what we want to begin. I love that. And so- Yeah ... yeah. And so being able to paint a picture collectively as a group of what we would want to begin from a growth mindset instead of a deficit mindset, what there'd be less of, um, it really makes the space for getting people to commit to meaningful and wise action. So that is the, uh, the an- the other important part of our storytelling training is it's not just getting people to carve out and dig up stories that have impacted them and impacted LGBTQ+ people in their lives, but it's tethering it to a vision for the future, and then asking people to make wise and meaningful action, either to reduce stigma for people like us- Um, through just k- inviting people in to continue conversations, or if it is trying to gather people who are already allies and already with you but don't know what to actually do, and giving people some tangibles and key actions to take. What I also wanna say about, um, about this is you kind of touched on it that w- there is a need to make sure that people feel connected, and that's one thing that our storytelling training has done. Um, to date we have trained, um, nearly, uh, well, over 1,300 across the country in 20 different cities since last summer. And what we have found in every single training, whether it's online or it's in person, is that people don't realize that they have stories to tell. 

Yeah. And there are some people who don't even think that the stories they have to tell- Yeah ... are interesting enough to be shared. And what I wanna say, and what I wanna say to all of your listeners and viewers is, yes, you do have stories to tell, and yes, we need you to tell your stories. You know, um, Charles Darwin asserts that human beings die in isolation, and storytelling is one of those ways that disrupts the isolation. A lot of folks also don't realize that, uh, storytelling is a, a, as, as a community organizing tool, that it is a form of, uh, non-violent action. Uh, Dr. Martin Luther King, um, he wrote, um, something called Storytelling as Self-Purification & Nonviolent Action A Letter from a Birmingham Jail, and this is after, um, being detained over the incidents in Selma with the Edmund Pettus Bridge. And he wrote this letter where he outlines what many community organizers and, and activists use today, and is he essentially calls them, like, this, these four tenets of non-violent action. And he talks about taking direct action, he talks about negotiation, negotiation, establishing the facts. But one thing he also talks about is self-purification That you as an activist, you who are steeped in any sort of anti-oppression work, you need to have opportunities to purify yourself so that you can, number one, have clarity, and number two, be prepared for tension. And so storytelling and storytelling training, it, it follows that history of self-purification techniques. 

So if you remember the demonstrations of, uh, uh, of Gandhi, if you remember the lunch counter protests- Mm ... in the 1950s and '60s, even in as, as, you know, relevant to the '80s and ACT UP and their die-ins and their community actions. Yeah. All of this necessitated them having a, a workshop or opportunities to practice beforehand. So for instance, with the lunch counter protests, you would attend a workshop through SNCC or through, you know, other Black activist groups, and you would have to prepare for the tension. They would throw food at you in these workshops. Mm. They would call you racial epithets in these workshops. They would help you to be able to self-regulate because they knew the tension that you were gonna experience in the community. The same thing with ACT UP and these other community organizers and activist groups. And so our storytelling and storytelling training is a form of self-purification. It's number one, getting clarity on what kind of stories you have and what kind of stories a- and, and messages are important to you, but also being prepared for the tension because right now storytelling is happening in our state legislatures, in school council meetings and board meetings, but stories are also happening in our employee resource groups. Stories are also happening at the kitchen table, at our dining tables. Stories are happening at, you know, these protests, the No Kings protests and rallies, demonstrations. Storytelling can happen in, in any of those places, and w- and my goal is making sure that if you tell your story, that you do some self-purification, that you get clear, that you practice with your story, and also prepare yourself for the tension internally and the tension that may come up when you tell your story. Yes. Yes. It's the, it's the self-discipline of, of being your own container for your own experience and also being able to tolerate, uh, any, any pushback or tension that comes from, from showing your container and showing your story to others. Yeah. Absolutely right. It was so beautiful how you said that, and, um, storytelling as a form of activism should, is, is the title of today's podcast. Um, I mean, it's, it's really- Um, true, and I'm so glad that, you know, HRC, um, has, has put you in this position of, of, of training folks. You know, e- especially in thinking about the future because, you know, when I came out, I was like, "What's the point?" in my head, you know, before I came out. Like, I knew I was out to myself and my friends, but it's like, you know, when you take that next step to actually come out to, uh, those who you know will resist. You know, m- in my mind, I thought, "Well, what's the point of coming out to them? I don't have a future anyway. It's not like I can get married. It's not like I'll ever have a, in my dreams, you know, a big Indian wedding. You know? It's n- it's, it's not like that's possible. Uh, so what's even the point of taking this massive risk of losing support, losing friends and family, and dealing with the heartbreak of all of that if I don't even really have a future? Why don't I just keep living, like, in the shadows, do my own thing, nobody has to know, and then I don't take any risks because there's no future anyway?" And I think in, in helping folks realize that you don't know what the future holds, and things are really hard right now, but you still don't know what's in the future, and can we imagine that and then convince others to, like, push for that? It's, um... You know, one of the things when I'm thinking, uh, about my kids and talking to them about all l- Black, brown, queer, you know, disabled, all of the identities that we hold in our little family structure. And when we're talking about them, you know, I'm thinking, "I'm not educating you on me. I'm educating you on what the world should look like." You know what I'm saying? Like, I- Mm-hmm ... I don't want my kids to be like, "Oh, and then Mama went through XYZ." It's like, forget me. This is your future and the way your friends and your family are going to be treated in the future. So what are you going to do? What is that going to look like for you? What ought to happen? Um, and I think it's just so beautiful to, to train- younger, young adults who have been now have, you know, it's, it's becomes a habit to kind of think, um, you know, what kind of future is out there for me? But to kind of retrain that idea and to know it could be something beautiful. You know, what you're actually doing, um, is something, um, you know, in many anti-oppression spaces, and it's something you do already, is, um, raising critical consciousness in your children. Because it is an opportunity for you to tell them, um, how the world is going to look for them, and helping to them to understand the ways of the world in a more critically conscious way, and that is so important for young people. Um, I think of like my experience in like the foster care system, or even working with so many, you know, young people having, you know, ma- you know, I ma- in the time I, I ran a mentoring program, I, I matched about, um, 200 youth with adult mentors, and one of the primary goals is always helping those young people to understand why, um, they are here, why they exist, to really make meaning of their lives, which is what you're talking about. To understand why things have happened to them. You know, so many, especially, uh, queer youth, um, they have a, a very negative self-image, and that is derived not only from the messages they get on a macro level from the government and from media, but also on those interpersonal levels. Um, and that creates minority stress. Um, you know, ba- specifically sexual and gender minority stress in them, and that's where we see those negative outcomes, the internalized transphobia or biphobia or homophobia. We see the suicidality and mental health i- issues. We see them trying to escape through substance use, um, and other unsafe practices. And so o- one of the key things that you're already doing with your children is establishing some meaning making, explaining to them what's happening in the world, and getting them to consider how they show up and what they have to offer. Because once you're able to, like if you're able to make meaning of the things that have happened to you, you can find ways to channel that and honor that existence in another way So you, um, doing this anti-oppression work as a consultant really steeped in anti-oppression work, that is honoring much of what you went through as, uh, you know, as a, a person of color, as a queer woman, as a, a parent, as a parent with COVID kids, you know, kids who, you know, had to survive through COVID. That you're, you make meaning, uh, of all of those things, and then you effectuate change and honor that through things like this podcast, through your consulting work. And I did the same. I made meaning of my experience in foster care. I, I figured out why those things happened to me, and I- Yeah ... figured out a way to not internalize and blame myself for the rejection and how long I was in that system. And I honor that experience now by getting my master's in social work, by returning to this work, by offering trainings and working back up with my community So beautifully said One other thing I wanna just say is w- Raising Critical Consciousness & Queer Identity when you were talking about coming out, it reminds me of something that I, I talk about with adults and young people in training, is that you could consider there, you know, coming out is just one aspect of the LGBTQ+ experience, and it doesn't happen just once. It happens in phases. It happens many times throughout your lifetime, and there are different ways to consider it. Like, I was just on a plane and someone asked me what I did for a living, and I had to make a decision there, like, to whether I wanted to mention Human Rights Campaign and LGBTQ+ inclusion. Mm. And so a way that I, uh, you know, language that I offer to you, to your listeners is, um, you can come out, yes, but you can also invite people in to, uh, know who you are. Know that your queerness and your outness is something that belongs to you, and you can, like many trans folks, like many queer folks, decide who you want to invite in. So coming out is just one aspect, but you're really inviting people in to know who you are, who you love, how you show up in the world, and also how you wanna be honored, like, as a queer person Uh, the other, I was celebrating Christmas with a family member, with like a cl- a cousin, and she bought me, um, a housewarming present. It's a, a book, a coffee table book about all Black designers and Black creatives, um, because she knows that I'm- I love to consume art. I love to consume fashion, things like this. And as I was skimming through the book with her there, um, I noticed that there was a section that talked about boi culture. And for folks who don't know, like in the Black and, uh, and many, and many Brown folks also absorb this, um, masculine-presenting women and masculine-presenting folks sometimes will identify themselves and their social groups as bois, uh, B-O-I-S. And so it is keeping in tune with stud culture, um, but also giving people a way to describe their relationships to others and how they describe their gender expression being a part of the social groups they're in. And I was telling my cousin, you know, about this, um, to kind of share how Blackness and intersectionality show up for the queer and, and trans people like me, and her question was, "Why does everybody need labels? It seems so unnecessary." And, um, I tried to explain to her it's not so much about keeping up. It's about, um, keeping open. Like, you don't have to keep up. You just have to keep open. This is the way that these Black people show up in the world and have the intersecting identity of queerness. They describe their groups, their social groups as bois, just like we hang out with our girls, just like there are different names for a grandparent. You know? There's Nana, there's Gma, there's, um, Nan, there's Medea. There's all sorts of ways that, that we describe our relationships to others that respect how those folks wanna be honored when you talk about them, and the same is true for our community. So it's twofold. It's not only lear- figuring out that you can invite people in, but also remembering like when you invite people in, it's really letting them know how you wanna be honored, um, and how you show up in the world in an intersecting way Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Um, I have met-- I've been-- also been met with this comment, Language, Labels & Empathy "Why do we need labels at all?" And, uh, it's funny 'cause it only comes up in one context. Um, but we use labels for everything or, you know, similarly. Uh, why do we, uh, why do we need pronouns? Why do we need, you know, queer education? Why do we need-- You know, it's, well, it's all white supremacy, and white supremacy has its labels, and we use them without thinking twice about it. So do you really wanna get rid of all labels, or do you just have, um, a misunderstanding of the importance of just naming things? It's like- Also, um, there are labels that non-LGBTQ+ people create- Of course ... to describe our community. And so I would rather- Yeah ... you use the labels that I come up with- Mm-hmm as opposed to the labels that you come up with. Um, you know, like I- Of course ... you know, I work with a lot of Gen Zs and Gen Alphas, and they are introducing to me some of the coded language that cisgender heterosexual people are using to describe queer folks, especially, um, you know, folks who are assigned male at birth. So this idea about being sassy, um, sassiness. Or, um, someone said the other day that I, uh, that, uh, a fruit fly, so someone who actually hangs out or is in the company of LGBT people, or specifically gay and queer men, calling them fruit flies. Zesty is a big one. Oh. Um, describing people, especially men, as zesty. These are all very coded ways, and we used to hear things like, you know, in back of the day like fag hag or, uh, you know, other... You know, fruity or- Right ... a little sugar in the tank, and this is just a continuance of that but in Gen Z and Gen Alpha language. Yeah. And so if, you know, many people are able to adopt that language, and I would rather give them a language that comes from me that is more respectful and honors me. It's like you don't have to, to understand, but please respect. And then the other thing about that is, um, people have been swagger jacking Black and brown queer women's language forever. Mm-hmm. Like many of... Much of the lexicon that is in our everyday culture now about spilling the tea- Uh-huh ... and shade, all of that comes from Black queer women- Yep from brown queer women, and specifically trans women in ball culture. Yep. So when you talk about here's the tea or very mindful, you know, very demure, these are... This is lexicon created by the queer community, and even more specifically queer women. And so if you're able to put that in because it's cool, because it's contemporary, if you're able to get with that, then you're able to get with this. Yeah. You're able to get these pronouns. You're able to do this. The real question is- Um, sometimes cisgender folks, heterosexual folks, in their minds, it seems like a burden to them to have to shift, to have to change their language to be more accommodating, that they like, um, having things in a very simple way. But the, you know, like I said before, it's not about keeping up. The language is always going to evolve. Um, it's so funny when I hear, like, uh, like language police saying, "Well, you know, this, you know, these pronouns, this language didn't exist," and I have to remind people all words are made up. Yeah. Yeah. I say that again, all words are made up. So all we... This is where we're at, you know, thousands of years as a human civilization. Words are made up. Um, all words are made up. And so this idea that we haven't used this before is like, get with it. Words... There are words that are incorporated into the Oxford Dictionary every single year. Um, and so words evolve just like humanity evolves. And so think less about why d- are you making this harder for me, and, and really think about it as, wow, this person has invited, um, me to know them deeper and better, and I may not know how to fully describe their experience, but I can have empathy. And, um, Dr. Brené Brown, um, who's one of my favorite, favorite, um, you know, speech and language and relationship experts, she says that empathy is believing people as they describe their lived, lived experiences, not what you imagine them to be. One more time. Mm. Empathy is believing people as they describe their lived experiences, not what you imagine them to be. So I get it. You're never gonna understand what it's like to be a gender minority, uh, like myself, or a Black person like myself, um, or a former foster youth. But believe me when I say that those experiences are difficult, that those experiences impact how I talk to every individual. Those experiences follow me into every training room, into every podcast interview I do, into every article that I write, into every, uh, young person's, uh, you know, uh, my ability to provide services to young people and the adults who support them. So it's, you don't have to imagine what it's like to be a trans person. Um, what you do, I ask you to do is to believe. Believe that I show up in the world this way, and believe that I experience, uh, you know, difficulties as a result. Um, that is true empathy. And so focus less on how it's gonna be harder for you to change your language. If you can spill the tea- You can use they/them pronouns. If you can, you know, you know, what are they s- all the things that young people do Oh, my God I, I heard about, uh, no Ohio, that means boring. Um- Oh, my God. Yeah ... you know, there's so much language that young people are incorporating, and we as adults, what do we do? We embrace that language so we can be closer to those young people. Yeah. Right? Yep. We embed their lexicon into our own so we can actually build closer connections to them. It's not unlike that with the queer community. It's not unlike that with- Yeah ... LGBT folks. Yeah. Learning the language so you can have better relationships. You know, and we should be so lucky to be invited in by you, uh, and be so lucky to be in your presence. Because every time we talk, and you know, we've been talking for at least five years, and every time we talk it's- You know, it's just magical. It just really is, Nia. Um, and- And I just give a shout-out to you because I want to say, like, this is exactly, um, I have to show up in this space because I remember five years ago, I was doing consulting as kind of like this independent contractor just going kind of contract to contract. And I want to thank you and, you know, Boundless Awareness because you really taught me, um, and extended to your- yourself, not only as an ally to a Black trans woman, but also, like, as a woman, period, to say, "I am in this position where I have access, um, and I have access to resources to help you improve your consulting business to have a clearer message." And you showed me some of the ways that you did your consulting contracts. You showed me language around how to retain my intellectual property. You showed me, you know, even connected me to clients. And so I want to make sure that there's space for that, too, to talk about, um, that. And there was never any sort of, um... You know, sometimes, especially when I- I'm communicating with queer cis women, there can sometimes be tension, um, or this feeling of otherness in queer women spaces, and I've never felt that in, in our work, um, working collaboratively. It's always been in service of, "I have this resource. How can I extend it to you? How can I make our work collectively better?" And so I want to make space for that, too, like that as queer women, there needs to be more of this as well. And allyship, um, my allyship toward Brown queer women and your allyship to not only Black queer women, but Black trans women. That's conversation we need to keep having, too. Mm-hmm. So thank you, Pooja. Oh, Nia, that was the easiest thing. That, that was so easy. I would love that. I love, I love, um, I love that. That's very kind of you to say, but it was really the, the... so easy, and I always want to work with you. You're so, so amazing. And, uh, I learned so much from you as well. So, um, thank you so much. You're, like, I feel like this podcast could be like three hours with you. Um, but, uh, we do have to wind down, and I'm so gr- grateful that you already talked about this, um, Brene Brown's definition of empathy because I usually ask my guests to, to offer something to our audience of like, okay, how can you just start incorporating one thing into your life? And just this basic definition, which is like kind of transformative, um, but thinking of empathy is just believe the person. Stop imagining what you think it is. That's irrelevant. Uh, you extending empathy is meaning, it means that you believe what you have heard in r- right in front of you. Um, thanks for offering that, and, um, thank you so much for being here and being so phenomenal. Yes, and just to, um, Closing & Resources if anybody wants to continue this journey, um, definitely check out my website. It is niaclark.com. Clark has no E. Um, N-I-A clark.com if you want to, uh, actually take a look at some other, uh, content, uh, get in touch with me. Um, and if you are interested in storytelling and possibly getting some information around storytelling, visit niaclark.com. And I also wanna really promote our financial literacy app. Like I mentioned before, HRC's new, uh, financial wellness tool, it is Worth It. So you can go to worthit.hrc.org, um, and get access to free financial literacy tools and resources to improve your overall financial wellness. Brilliant. Also brilliant that you got niaclark.com. How did you finagle that? That's awesome. I don't even know. You know- I, you know, I d- I don't know. There has, you know, uh, there's more than, than one Nia Clark. There's actually a few of us out there, but nobody had taken up that domain, so it's mine. Phenomenal. Um- Um, let's end with the, the quote that's on your website. So if you go to niaclark.com, um, also check out the, um, human rights campaign and, um, and the storytelling, and just get involved. It's just, it's so great. Let me, let's end with this quote. Your quote by you on your website, "I am a soldier in the ongoing fight for justice, equity, and inclusion. My weapons are intersectionality and lived experience. My armor is love." Love that quote from you. Brilliant. Nia, thank you so much for your time, and, uh, let's connect offline so I can learn some more vocabulary. Okay. Thank you so much for having me. Um, have a great day, and- Thank you ... uh, happy Pride Month also. Indeed. Happy Pride. Take care everybody, and we'll see you next time. 

Thanks for joining us on Everyday Equity: Everyday Ways to Make a Change. If today's conversation inspired you, keep the momentum going. Connect with us on LinkedIn at Boundless Awareness, subscribe to our YouTube at Boundless Awareness, and explore more free resources to support your anti-oppression journey @boundlessawareness.com. Remember, progress isn't about perfection. It's about showing up every day with curiosity, compassion, and the courage to do a little better. I'm Pooja Kothari, and I can't wait to keep learning and growing with you right here on Everyday Equity.