Special pre-convention interview with Rob Ashton, candidate for leader of Canada's NDP

Rob Ashton, candidate for the leader of Canada's NDP and President of the International Longshore and Warehouse Union of Canada takes a break from his campaign to join Left East to West from Prince Albert, Saskatchewan:

- how the NDP can escape polarization and the strategic voting trap
- being a partner for provincial NDP leaders trying to defeat conservatives
- deepening the relationship with labour
- organizing stronger riding associations
- a communications focus the movement can get behind and push on

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:30

Welcome to Left East to West with me, Nikki Hill.

SPEAKER_02 0:33

And me, Tom Parkin, and our guest for this pre-convention special interview, Rob Ashton. Welcome to Left East to West, Rob. Thanks for having me, you two. Appreciate it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 0:43

Yeah, we're glad you're here. Before we get diving in with Rob on some questions, we also just want to let you know that we are recording a special convention edition from Winnipeg at the NDP convention on Sunday. After everything wraps, when we know what has happened in the leadership race, all the excitement in a convention that it brings on a weekend. And we'll get that to you next Monday morning. You'll have all of the details about the votes, the debates, and insights from a panel that we'll have of special guests as well, as well as talking about new opportunities and challenges the new leader will face.

SPEAKER_02 1:14

And that new leader could be Rob Ashton, the national president of the International Long Shore and Warehouse Unions, who is with us now as we record on Monday morning. Tomorrow we'll record an interview with Hether McPherson. We've extended invitations to the other candidates since we started the show. So we're working on those pieces and we're going to ask each similar questions so that those still mulling their ballot in this final week can compare side by side and decide.

SPEAKER_00 1:41

Okay, a little softball question, which would in in most days probably be kind of a boring question because Rob and I live uh in in the writings next to each other. But Rob, where are you joining from today? And let's start with the top question we are going to start our Mondays with on all our meetings and calls. How is the weather where you are?

SPEAKER_01 2:00

I'm in Prince Albert right now, Saskatchewan. And just look it up my window. There's a beautiful dusting of snow. It's below zero. Uh the roads are clear, and it's been probably the middle of my drive to Winnipeg now.

SPEAKER_00 2:15

Nice. So I'll just let you know it's really nice and sunny here in your home territory. Enough.

SPEAKER_01 2:20

Enough. I'm I'm getting used to the sun.

SPEAKER_00 2:24

That's important.

SPEAKER_01 2:26

All right.

SPEAKER_00 2:27

Okay, let's get into some of the serious questions for our leadership candidate. Um, first of all, uh let's talk about something that's been a long-term problem, I think, for the NDP in federal elections for the most part, which is strategic voting. So, you know, there's, of course, we see every federal election this concept, it's it's certainly not new. I know when I was federal director of organization, sorry, when I was director of organization in BC doing federal campaigns, it was always something that we were watching for where those votes are being swung over to another party to, you know, in the last election to counter the pe the poly of conservatives at different points in time, different goals here. So, what is your thinking on why the strategic voting appeal works, especially look at the last election for Kearney? And what strategy do you think the NDP can use to try to diffuse it if it's deployed again, which it probably will be next election?

SPEAKER_01 3:21

So strategic voting has always been like tough on us to put it mildly and lightly. Uh I think that with the a lot with the last election, we the NDP lost a lot of voters because they lost trust in us, they lost faith in us, or they just didn't see themselves in our party anymore. And they bought into the Cause Plan Act of Polyev walking around saying he's a worker, which I think a lot of us have known, and a few more are starting to realize that he isn't a worker. He's a politician through and through. And so when Carney came along, he was the anti-Polyev and he was the new playboy on the block. I can't believe I just said that. But uh but everybody went, oh my god, look, he's flashy, he's Canadian and he's a banker. He's gonna be able to beat up Donald Trump. But he's just a banker, he's another one of them, another member of the ruling class, gonna rule on behalf of the ruling class. So after the election, and one of the reasons why I threw my name in the hat was I never seen anybody that could be the anti-polyev, if you know what I mean. The person that can actually bring voters back from conservatives, uh, somebody that's actually from the ground floor, from the shop floor, has been fighting for the working class his entire life. And so that's one of the many reasons why I jumped into the race, is because I can speak to the fact that Polyev is not a worker, that the conservatives had done nothing but hurt work the working class in this country, both unionized and non-union workers alike, in different legis pieces of legislation they brought in. And those that voted liberal are now seeing they're not voting for uh a how do I say a center-right government anymore. They're voting for a conservative government. And so now they're starting to regret their votes, and so they're gonna come back. So if somebody like me gets elected leader, somebody that knows how to talk to workers in all different stripes in all different uh communities, they get something different, something that conservatives and liberals have never seen before.

SPEAKER_02 5:34

Okay, a new Democrat is premier in two provinces of Canada, and in four more is the official opposition leader. That's Claudia Chender, Merritt Styles, Carla Beck, and Heidenchi. Um and and we've seen everybody, uh all of them, try to adopt a tighter focus on jobs and affordability as we face this uh threat from uh from the South. And and those uh NDP opposition leaders face some pretty terrible conservative premiers who uh I think we can all agree need to get uh defeated. Now, in Canada being a federation, uh sometimes the policy lever, a provincial leader or provincial premier, needs to have pushed or pulled to help on their economic plan for workers is in Ottawa. So what is the opportunity to rebuild the federal NDP by being a spokesperson for provincial NDP leaders in Ottawa?

SPEAKER_01 6:27

So the first thing we do have to do is stop attacking each other publicly. We have we should be having uh multiple conversations in private with new Democrats across the country from coast to coast to coast. And that way we're not undermining them. Because as soon as one wing of the party, whether it's a federal ring, provincial, or territorial, as soon as one of us undermines each other publicly, the conservatives shoot right past us. Right. And that's that's problem number one. Now, problem number two, the success that we're having in the provinces is because the provinces have identified what the what worries the voters the most. And that's the lack of jobs, the affordability crisis that we're having, uh our health care being driven into the ground by right-wing provincial ruling class governments. And so this is the problem that we're seeing across the country. And so the federal New Democrats have to take that on and have to be talking the same thing. We have to identify what's working in each province and then bring that and utilize it federally. And that's why the vast majority of my campaign, I've been talking about jobs, housing, affordability, and our healthcare system, and how to make how and how to make this better for working class Canadians. And when I say working class Canadians, just so everybody understands, I mean everybody that doesn't own the means of production unless it's worker-owned means of production. And so that's small business owners, people that could put shoes on every day to go to work, or even if they don't wear shoes, lifeguards in general uh, for example. Uh or if it's uh people on disability or can't find a job or you name it, they fall within the working class because there's no such thing as the middle class.

SPEAKER_00 8:08

Yeah. And let's talk a little bit about the working class because I think you know, one of the things that's of course unique and distinct, and and I think um, we had Suzanne Skidmore on for our show last week. I think she called it a superpower, was the fact that the NDP wasn't just created to be a party ideologically about the working class, but to actually be a party of the working class. So with the CLC, district labor councils, provincial federations in our constitution, uh, labor affiliation, different models over the years to of how labor participates with the party, but as that key party um partner that is structurally part of the NDP. But one of the things in the post-election report that showed was that writing activists and labor activists seem to have moved apart culturally within our party, you know, those that participated in the post-election debrief. So, how would you go about deepening the connection, getting more labor activists involved in the NDP, and really bringing back that party culture that seems feels like a home for all?

SPEAKER_01 9:07

So, one of the key aspects of this of our plan is to have the labor councils and the EDAs working together. And so have representatives of the labor councils actually on the EDAs and vice versa. Because if we're not talking to each other and we're not creating a path down the road on the same, if we're not walking down the same path on the same road in the same direction, we're we're pulling the party apart. And so not only that, but we're also gonna be working directly with the Canadian Labor Congress to make sure that our ideals are the same ideals as the Canadian Labor Congress. And the legislation or the bills that we start drafting and we start writing, like for example, the auto sector. If we start writing bills that involve the auto sector, we're gonna talk to the unions like Unifor that are involved in the auto sector. If we're gonna start drafting uh bills that talk about steel mills, we're gonna be talking to the United Steelworkers. If we're gonna talk about bills that have to do with the water and the waterways and shipping, we're gonna talk to unions like the International Longshore Warhouse Union Canada and the International Longshore Association on the East Coast, as well as QP375 in Montreal. So this is our game plan, right? Is to bring people in with the knowledge base and the knowledge sector because I could write a I could write a bill about I don't know why the sky's blue, but I'm probably gonna get it wrong. And so I go to the person that knows how to write that bill, the person with the knowledge and the information. I gotta figure that one out first. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 10:39

Now, Rob, both uh Nikki and I have been directors of organizing for provincial sections of the NDP. And I think fair to say we both very much come from the perspective that the NDP will not succeed where riding associations are weak. How will you help get more people involved locally? Help ridings raise money and train the next generation of organizers.

SPEAKER_01 11:03

So this is a great question. I'm gonna model like what so I I lean heavily on my union background because that's where I came from, that's what I know. And so about eight, sixteen, eighteen years ago, something like that, we started uh we created a young workers' conference uh that we put on every two years, and that trains the next generation of leadership in our union. And that's what we have to do within the party, is we have to create training programs that we can deliver to the EDAs, that we can deliver to community members, and we can we can grow it and we can pass that knowledge along because leadership in our in the NDP, like save myself, when I get elected late leader on March 29th, I'm not leader for life, I'm leader for this amount of time. And so I have to be able to share my knowledge and the information that I have to the next generation. The other key aspect of this whole thing is that we have to start, um, for example, the money that comes back after the election, back to the NDP, that money, and I and I put a motion or a resolution through my EDA in Maple Ridge about this, that money has to go back to the EDAs within 90 days so they have funding. Right? And we have to have candidates in place long before an election is called so that that candidate can actually start to know the community, know their EDAs, build fundraising. The EDAs can build ties to the community and not just a bam elections called, we're gonna set EDAs up because that doesn't work. And so we're gonna give people the tools and the capabilities to actually do the job between elections and work hard for each other and share the information that works in different communities and what doesn't work in communities.

SPEAKER_00 12:50

Yeah. I love that all the candidates are talking about organizing. I think um, you know, as Tom said, us us both having been there, it's so critical. And it takes this very long range view to get done. We just can't start, you know, six months before an election. So I mean these are great conversations that are going on right now about this rebuilding phase. Having done rebuilding myself. Um, so let's talk a little bit about um our presence here and how we talk about messaging and communication. So, you know, as a party, and particularly right now, it's all about fighting for every comment and and a small caucus, you know, makes that obviously a lot tougher too, as hard as they're working right now in our caucus. Um but a lot of people just don't hear from the federal NDP. And I think um one of the reasons we have this show is because we know there's a lot more of those right-wing voices who are getting media time and and all of these are issues I think that you know, center left are facing in general. So why, what do you think the um NDP can do to try to get more profile, to try to get out of message that the movement can get behind, help deliver, and bring some of those voters back again?

SPEAKER_01 13:58

Well, we have to go back to our old toolbox, right? So this is when I talk about going back to our roots is we used to remember the old soapboxes, people used to pack around, put on a street corner, step on it, and start talking. That's what we have to get back to. We used to be in the colleges and universities and supporting our groups there. We used to go to high schools. I remember um politicians coming to my house high school back in the 90s to talk about politics. And that's what we have to get back to doing. And the conservatives stole our playbook, right? They've got their people that Jamal What's his name, who's really not even worth mentioning the person's name. He's in colleges, he's in universities, he's traveling the country, and it's gaining media momentum. Maybe not always the mainstream media, maybe social media, but that's picking up because that's what people look at all the time. And so that's what we have to do, is we have to get back into colleges and universities and support our college and university uh groups. I know when I announced um that I was running uh way back in October, um, my partner was talking to her daughter, and her daughter, they live in Ottawa, and her daughter went and talked to her teacher. And next thing I know, I got an invite to talk to their high school classes. Now I couldn't talk about NDP stuff, just government in general. So I said so I said yes, and we made a date, and I showed up. These students are hungry for information.

SPEAKER_00 15:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:26

And they're not getting it anywhere else.

SPEAKER_00 15:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:30

And there was two or three classes there. They are, but at the wrong places, right?

SPEAKER_00 15:35

Not about us. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 15:37

No, and so it was a it was a good time to have a conversation. And that when when you're making the decision to vote or making the decision to uh get involved in politics, what side are you on? Are you on the side of hope and compassion and raising people up, or are you on the side of hate, divisiveness, and pulling people down that aren't like you? And so those are those are the conversations I was able to have without mentioning political parties, of course.

SPEAKER_00 16:03

Yeah, they're important. Okay, fun fact, my my first full-time job in the BCNDP was the youth organizer, which we fought really hard to get as a position, and it was mostly going out to campuses and figuring out ways to talk to young people. So you can steal that idea for your oh, we'll give you all the campaigns that steal that idea.

SPEAKER_01 16:19

It's it's an it's an incredible part because that's the next generation. And if we stop talking to them, we get into situations like we're in today.

SPEAKER_00 16:27

Especially with all the online misinformation. Okay, well, we're just here for for a short time with each of our leadership candidates this week, and we're really grateful that rot down the time in this busy schedule, hezzy drives to the Winnipeg Convention. Uh, and um, this is our pre-convention episode. We've extended invitations to all the campaigns in the weeks prior. So we're trying to catch them before the convention, knowing they're all busy people in this final push. We're also building left east to west, so please follow our show and share our weekly episodes. This week, our Monday release is Suzanne Skidmore, president of the BC Federation of Labor. And then next Monday it's going to be our special convention episode where we'll give you all of the analysis with a panel coming out of the convention weekend. Thanks for joining us.

SPEAKER_01 17:15

Take care. Thanks, guys.