Special pre-convention interview with Heather McPherson, candidate for leader of Canada's NDP

Heather McPherson, candidate for leader of Canada's NDP and Member of Parliament for Edmonton-Strathcona, takes a break from her campaign to join Left East to West from Edmonton, Alberta:

- how the NDP can escape polarization and the strategic voting trap
- being a partner for provincial NDP leaders trying to defeat conservatives
- deepening the relationship with labour
- organizing stronger riding associations
- a communications focus the movement can get behind and push on

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:31

Welcome to Left East to West with me, Nikki Hill.

SPEAKER_03 0:35

And me, Tom Parkin, and our guest for this pre-convention special interview, Heather McPherson. Weather, welcome to Left East to West, Heather.

SPEAKER_01 0:43

Thanks so much. Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_00 0:45

It's great here. Just before we dive in with Heather, we want to make sure that you also know that we are recording a special convention edition from Winnipeg on Sunday after everything wraps at the NDP convention, and we're going to bring it to you next Monday morning. You'll get all the details on the votes, the debates, and then insights from our panel about challenges and opportunities for the new leader.

SPEAKER_03 1:07

And that new leader could be Heather McPherson, Member of Parliament for Edmonton Strathcona, who's with us now as we're recording on Tuesday morning. And as we start this interview, we're releasing our episode with Rob Ashton, who we interviewed yesterday. We uh wanted to bring you all the others, but some we just couldn't make work with their schedule. So today we're asking some questions very similar to those we put to Rob, uh, so that those are still mulling their ballot in this final week can compare side to side and uh and make their decision.

SPEAKER_00 1:39

Okay. First, uh an easy question, Heather. Where are you today? And the most Canadian question we want to start with how's the weather there?

SPEAKER_01 1:47

I'm in Edmonton, so I'm at home. Um after six months of being, you know, in hotel rooms all across this country, it does feel nice that my team has let me be in Edmonton for a few days. Um I'm in I'm in Edmonton, Strathcona. The the weather is, you know, that typical March where they promise you spring, but spring doesn't come. Um it's a bit windy, bit wintery, not not certainly no Easter egg hunting weather on our forecast around here.

SPEAKER_03 2:14

Yeah. This is where Nikki usually starts talking about how it is in Vancouver.

SPEAKER_01 2:18

I guess and you know, Peter Julian used to be the absolute worst at talking about how beautiful uh BC was.

SPEAKER_00 2:25

No, I think I curse myself because Rob actually just is in the writing next to me, and I curse myself telling him he was in Saskatchewan yesterday that it was really sunny here. So now it is pouring rain.

SPEAKER_03 2:37

Oh, Nick, yes. I'm sorry, everybody. Well, it's beautiful and sunny here in Toronto. I'll just tell you that, and it's 27 degrees.

SPEAKER_00 2:45

Oh, thanks, Tom. Okay, great. And we're all heading to Winnipeg. So here we are.

SPEAKER_03 2:49

Snowstorm coming to Winnipeg today.

SPEAKER_00 2:51

Excellent news.

SPEAKER_03 2:52

Good. Good work.

SPEAKER_00 2:55

Okay, so we're gonna start with uh some issues, and one being a long-term time problem for the federal NDP, which is strategic voting. So, of course, we have more than one outcome when we're talking about this dynamic. It's not a new problem. We've seen it in campaigns provincially, but we also do really, of course, saw this heavily federally in the last election. And then a lot of this, of course, we also saw with the polarization between Carney, Paliev, the context of Trump driving voters who may have voted for the NDP in the past over to one of those camps, mostly the liberals, but in some places helping conservatives win, Windsor West being a real standout example of that. What's your thinking on why strategic voting has this appeal and what strategy can the NDP use to diffuse it before the next election?

SPEAKER_01 3:41

Yeah, you know, it's such a great question. It's one I've thought about a whole bunch. Um, I mean, first of all, of course, what we what we really need is to fix our electoral system. I mean, that's that's the that's the key to this. Uh that's not gonna happen while conservatives and liberals have have power. Um but that's that's the the real solution. But in the meantime, I think part of the solution has to be talking to Canadians about the fact that it actually is new Democrats in an awful lot of places in this country where where we beat conservatives. You know, that strategic vote where the liberals like to say, you know, I we know you don't like us as much, but um we need you to vote for us because we can beat conservatives. Well, my response to that is that I have won my seat in Edmonton Strathcona three times against conservatives. You know, the the the fact is during this last election, we saw across the country, I mean, you talk about Windsor West, but uh, you know, I think about lots of seats on the island or in British Columbia. I think about the the next door neighbor to me where Blake Desjardis was the member of parliament, an incredible member of parliament in Edmonton Griezbaugh. And we now have Carrie Diod, a conservative, um, because it was only Blake that was going to be able to beat um beat the conservatives. And and the deal was that the liberals pulled just enough votes away from from just enough ridings that people like Lisa Marie Barons, peace of people like Alistair McGregor, you know, those are the folks that should be elected. And I think we need to talk to Canadians about that electoral math. You know, the the the liberals can say it all you they want, but it's not true. It it in so many places across this country, it is only New Democrats that can be conservatives. And I think we need to, we need, we need to, we need to start talking about that now. We should have been talking about that ever since the last election, to be honest. Um and we need to show, you know, we are the ones. I I beat conservatives. That's what I know how to do.

SPEAKER_03 5:32

Yeah. A New Democrat is premier in two provinces, and in four more is the official opposition leader, Claudia Chender, Mart Stiles, uh Carla Beck, and uh Naheed Ninji. Um we've seen it. Don't forget, Claudia. I had her in the beginning. I had her in the beginning. Oh, sorry, I missed it. Um we we've seen all of them adopt a tighter focus on jobs and affordability as we face this uh Trump threat from the South. Um and those NDP opposition leaders uh they face some pretty terrible conservative leaders, uh conservative premiers uh who need to be defeated. Uh the challenge, uh the challenge I want to point out here is though, as they construct their plans, either as premiers or opposition leaders fighting to defeat conservatives, uh they're searching for an economic plan that they can put forward to their voters. Uh and quite often that uh economic lever that they want to push or pull uh is not under provincial jurisdiction, it's in Ottawa. Uh what is the opportunity uh for the federal NDP to rebuild by being a partner and a fighter for provincial NDP leaders in Ottawa?

SPEAKER_01 6:46

Yeah. Such a great question. Um When I was elected in 2019, the first thing that that my team and I decided is that we were going to rebuild that relationship with the Alberta NDP. You know, we saw how how much better life was for Albertans under Rachel Nottley. You know, the the fact that she cut job poverty in half, the fact that she brought in the first industrial carbon tax of any um import, the fact that she, you know, got us off coal years ahead of schedule. Like there are there are so many things that happened in our province that that Rachel Notley was able to do when she was premier. And and, you know, over the the last six years, I have repaired that relationship. Like she's endorsed me uh for the leadership. Um but but it is an example. Like we have got to work together. I've I spoke to MHAs, I spoke to MPPs, MLAs across this country. And and for the last number of years, the federal party has been an anchor, not a kite, and has not been an asset, has actually been a drag for these for these concern for these new Democrat parties in uh in the provinces. And you're right. Like we are government in two, we are huge oppositions in two, we are official oppositions in three others. Like there is a lot of opportunity for the NDP to take government and to do real things that help people. But we got to work together. I mean, could there be a better example than Danielle Smith? You know, what she is doing to healthcare, what she is doing using the notwithstanding clause, the attacks on workers' rights. Like the best thing we can do for Canada right now, frankly, is to get rid of Danielle Smith. And and the way we do that is electing the new Democrats. And so for me, it's always been a priority. I'm concerned about the attacks on the provincial parties. I think it's a real problem because when we work together, we're stronger. We're not going to agree on every single thing. That's true. You know, provincial parties are representing their regions, regions have different priorities. But on the vast majority of things, new Democrats believe the same things and we should be supporting each other. We should be working together. And it's good for the Alberta Party or sorry, for the provincial parties, but it's also good for the federal party. Like it's good for us too. When new Democrats are doing great things around the country, that's better for the federal party as well.

SPEAKER_00 9:01

Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, I had the opportunity of working for the party when we were rebuilding both the BC Party and the federal party under Jack. So I think, you know, those are the times where working in tandem were really strong for us. Uh let's talk a little bit about uh workers and the labor relationship. So, of course, you know, we weren't just created as a party to be an ideological party about the working class, but to actually be a party of working people. We have that in our structure with the Canadian Labor Congress, district labor councils, federations, all part of the constitution and labor affiliation in different forms. But we also saw in the post-election debrief a disconnect between writing activists and labor activists that sort of moved apart culturally. How would you go apart about deepening this connection again and rebuilding a home, I think, that fits for everybody, including working people and labor activists?

SPEAKER_01 9:55

Well, and this has been sort of the whole theme of our campaign is this idea of building a bigger table and speaking to Canadians that we've lost along the way. You know, we stopped talking to people. We stopped talking to people in a way that they could hear us, that they about the things that matter to them. I I grew up in a non-political family. My dad was a truck driver, my mom was a teacher, you know, we didn't, we we weren't political. We didn't come from a political dynasty, you know, we didn't talk politics, uh big P politics at the kitchen table. But I but I did have truck truck drivers sitting around my kitchen table talking about, you know, the cost of living, talking, you know, we lived through the the down the downturn of the oil prices in the 80s, uh, you know, talking about how things were tough, talking about how things people were worried about their jobs. You know, those are the that's the situation we're in right now. You know, working class Canadians across this country are are dealing with an affordability crisis that that is completely solvable. You know, they are worried about housing, they are worried about their bills, they are worried about the cost of groceries, all of these things that we can fix. And we've gotta be the party that's doing that because the other two parties aren't gonna do that. You know, the conservatives like to cosplay, they like to pretend they know what it means to be a worker, but Pierre Palio's never had an actual job outside of parliament. Um they're not going to do the the progressive solutions that working class Canadians need. And so we need to show up. We need to be there, we need to be talking to workers and not just the folks that are at the top of unions. We need to be talking to people and the rank and file. We need to be connecting with people and and we need to be focusing on the things that are affecting Canadians' lives. You know, one of the things I love about New Democrats is that we we love to solve all of the problems. Um, you know, we we we love all of the problem of the problems, but we've got to be focused. You know, we've got to be disciplined in our message. We've got to be talking to people about the things that matter, and that's affordability, that's healthcare, that's housing.

SPEAKER_02 11:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 11:57

Now, um both Nikki and I have been uh director of organizing for a provincial section, and I think we both very much come from uh the perspective that the the NDP cannot succeed if riding associations or where riding associations are weak. Uh how we help get more people involved locally, building stronger organizations on the ground, helped them raise money, helped them train the next generation of organizers.

SPEAKER_01 12:25

So during the campaign we've been calling it the Edmonton Strathcona model, it's it's not. I mean, it's Jack Layton did something that was very, very similar. But you know, after 2019, so I was the only member of parliament between Winnipeg and the Rocky Mountains that was not conservative. You know, the whole the the whole Saskatchewan-Alberta swath of conservatism and only one little dot in downtown Edmonton. Um, and so we decided like that that that needed to change. So right after that election, our our riding association took money from you know the fundraising that that's to be honest, it's it's pretty easy to raise funds when you're the only game in town. Um, you know, we took some of our resources and we brought on a year-round organizer. We worked with the federal party in Ottawa, but we brought on a year-around organizer. We'd never had one of those in Alberta before. So we used to get an organizer that would come in um, you know, when the election was called and spend all their time trying to get candidates in the 34 ridings, trying to get those 150 signatures, all the rest. Um, instead, what we did with this year-round organizer, who's amazing, by the way, is still with us, um, you know, we were training EDAs. We were making sure they all uh writing associations, we were making sure they all knew how to send out a fundraising letter, uh, that they knew how to do a candidate search, that they knew how to do a nomination race, that they, you know, that they they could do their financials. And so we got the writing associations um connected. They were all talking together. You know, we all have WhatsApp grap, WhatsApp groups now. Uh we all communicate. And then we also did this thing where we took the resources from our writing association and we diverted them to other writing associations. So in 2021, our focus was Greece Ba. We sent all our volunteers to Greece Ba. We sent all, we sent money to Greece Ba. You know, we had a candidate that was that was nominated a year out. Uh, we had a team that was in place. And and, you know, the candidate, of course, was Blake Deserlay, spectacular member of parliament, worked his butt off, knocked every door three times, you know, did the did the really important work. Um, and and we doubled the seat count in Alberta, which I understand. Um, and then and then we did the same thing in 2025. And I think in another election that wasn't a wave election, like we saw, you know, we would have been able to get Trisha Estebrooks elected, and you know, maybe even Saskatoon, you know, like we were able to start building. And why I think that's important is because what it does is it every single riding in this country is winnable if we work it hard enough. I honestly believe that. Um, and and it's putting in the time to build up these riding associations. So yeah, maybe Manning wasn't, Edmonton Manning wasn't in the in the play in this last election, but it might be in the next one. Um, you know, I think there is these things that we can do where we really build. People often talk about Edmonton Strathcona as being this safe seat, um, you know, that I inherited the safe seat. But remember, in 2020, that was the first time a new Democrat won with Linda Duncan. Uh, it had been conservative forever. And in 2019, when I won, the cons the media all went to the conservative party because they assumed that the conservative was going to win that seat back. You know, um, they all had to rush back to our campaign headquarters afterwards. But but I think it's something to keep in mind. Like that's how we do it. The other thing I do um, and that I did, you know, well before I wanted to be uh leader of the party is I think we need to take the MPs that we have and use them. You know, I I've door knocked in in St. John's, I have door knocked in um, you know, Smithers and everywhere in between. I went down into Windsor. We were everywhere trying to make sure that we were showing up that support. So I think that's another tool that we have that we've not utilized enough. It's a really long answer to a question. Sorry.

SPEAKER_03 16:01

There's a lot of stuff to there's a lot of stuff to think about in that in that problem. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:05

Yeah, I yeah. I mean, I think having had Tom and I both having had those roles, we know it's not a a short uh question to ask anyone as well.

SPEAKER_01 16:14

So and I also like like Sorrial, just one last thing on the thought. But there is there is bringing up like there is the volunteers that work in these riding associations, and there is building that community. And and I think that was a big part of it for us as well. Like we used to get everybody to come to my backyard for a barbecue. Like, you know, we used to have events so that people could get together and tell us how things were. And I think that's part of it too. People want to be part of something, you know? Yeah.

unknown 16:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:40

I mean, there's good reasons people join a party. Uh, I'm sure it's not just me joining it for social time and university. There's lots of people like that, right? That's the why you join things and make it valuable. John Horgan always used to say something along the lines that there's a lot of new Democrats in in BC, they just don't know it yet. So I think it's that that speaks to the the organizing there and helping people. But also communication. So, I mean, we don't need to tell you that the NDP always has to fight for every column it. And obviously, that dynamic's been tough for you folks still in caucus. Um, and one of the reasons we actually started this show was you know, coming through the election and recognizing that some of those communications channels had had shifted in the post-federal election world and people need to hear more from the federal NDP and progressives. So, um, how can the NDP on the communication side make the most of what we currently have? And how do you think that you'd carve out a message for not just the whole of the movement to get behind, but to bring voters back to the NDP?

SPEAKER_01 17:42

Yeah. Well, and and I think first of all, I want to say thank you. I think it's so important that we have uh podcasts from the progressive side of the of the political spectrum. And and thank God I can talk to you today instead of uh instead of Rogan. I'm glad that that was just like Rogan.

SPEAKER_03 18:00

He's got a little show.

SPEAKER_01 18:01

Let's let's talk less about kettlebells, let's talk less about uh taekwondo or mixed martial arts or whatever it was. Um yeah, I mean, in the last election, I think that was one of our biggest, our biggest failures. I think our communications was not strong. You know, after the election, I remember speaking to a class at the University of Ottawa and saying to these young people, like, what did we run on? And these were new Democrats, like this was the Ontario, the University of Ottawa, New Democrats. And I said, What did we run on? And they didn't know. You know, we all knew what Pierre Polyev ran on. We all knew what his what his position was. Uh so we need to be clear. And I think part of it for us is just it, it's it's discipline. It goes back to that idea that we want to be all the things to all the people at all the times. And and you can't do that with communications. That's not the way communications works. Um, I do think being able to use every single tool that we have is really important. You mean social media plays a role that is never in politics that is disproportionate to anything we've seen before. Um, and you're right, mainstream media, there is a lot of argument that we are we don't have party status within the House. And so therefore we don't get that same coverage. I don't agree with that. I mean, I do believe, regardless of whether we have status in the House of Commons, we are, we are a party. Like that doesn't change. You know, the the the the idea that we are an a political entity that has an important role to play and has played an important role in our country and in our democracy can't be uh can't be understated. Um but I but I do think it's it's it's been everywhere all the time. You know, one of the things that I learned from Charlie Angus is you just jump in front of mics. You know, like you take your space, you put your elbows up, you get in there. Um he told me stories all the time. I I spent my first parliament sitting behind Charlie Angus, which I can tell you is a it's a thing. It's like having your own um megaphone. You can whisper things to him and he'll show.

SPEAKER_00 19:57

Um communication channel. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:00

You can do the heckling if you don't want to do the heckling yourself.

SPEAKER_02 20:03

Um, so you were stories about the the the the evil or the devil depends on you.

SPEAKER_03 20:12

Okay, all right. Not gonna tell Charlie the same.

SPEAKER_01 20:14

I think we all know that I do not tell Charlie Angus what to say. Um but but he would tell me stories about how Jack Layton did the same thing. You know, it it is harder for us. You know, it it it it is harder for us to get attention, and so we've gotta be bold, we've got to be brave, we've got to take it. And I think, you know, there are only six of us. Um, and I think we have done a pretty good job of like inserting ourselves into the media, making sure that the we're the story and that we're there. I mean, I I I just couldn't be more proud of Don Davies and the work that he has done um as the interim leader. Uh, and not just because he was so hilarious in the in the press gallery dinner, but all of the other work that he has done. Yeah. Really remarkable. And so I I do think we're we're good at it. We're used to having to fight for our space. Um and every new Democrat we get elected, every new Democrat that wins um a seat helps us uh take up more space. I think that's part of it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 21:12

Yeah. Well, uh Heather McPherson, thank you so much for joining us on Left, East to West and Safe Travels in your last week. Um we're good, we're both gonna be there in Winnipeg, so we'll we'll see you there.

SPEAKER_01 21:26

Well, my my dad is coming for his very first NDP convention. I'm very excited about it. Oh nice excited for 84, and he's become like a full staunch NDP member.

SPEAKER_03 21:37

Fantastic.

SPEAKER_00 21:38

Love it.

SPEAKER_01 21:39

Yeah, it'll be great. Okay. Well, we'll see you guys there. Thank you for having me on the show.

SPEAKER_00 21:42

We'll see you there. Yeah, we're looking forward to convention and our panel. So uh, friends, I I hope you found this pre-convention episode with Heather interesting and valuable as people make some of their final decisions heading into Winnipeg. And remember to pack your warm clothes, it sounds like when we head into Winnipeg. Winnipeg. We're building left east to west as a place you can get this kind of content that you're not getting anywhere else right now. So please give us a follow, listen to our episodes. They come out every Monday morning. And then check out our show this week, which is with Suzanne Skidmore, president of the BC Federation of Labor. And then next Monday, our special post-convention episode with panelists and insights coming out of the weekend. We'll talk to you soon.

SPEAKER_03 22:24

Take care of the food.