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The Super Banter Bros.
The Release Date Conundrum | The Super Banter Bros. Episode 11
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What does it actually mean for a game to “release” anymore? We’re breaking down the difference between release dates, launch dates, and the rise of games as a service.
Are full games a thing of the past?
#podcast #gaming #gamingindustry #gamesasaservice #gamingpodcast #comedypodcast #relatable #contentcreators #nostalgia #comedy
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Welcome back to another exciting, fun-filled episode of the Superbanter Brothers, who is actually on time with our release dates once we plan those out. I am Superbanter Brother Grant Patricio, and with me, Chucklin as always, is Superbanter Brother. Senor Donut. Sorry.
SPEAKER_00Donut Claws. Ho ho ho. All right.
SPEAKER_05Ho ho holy crap. He got a new mask, y'all.
SPEAKER_01I did. I did. And you are the first to see it, uh, which is a lie because uh the first people to see it, well, well, one of them was Grant, of course. Uh, but the first people to see it will be my Twitch community, uh, because this episode will come out long after they've seen it.
SPEAKER_05So indeed, indeed.
SPEAKER_01You can see it still.
SPEAKER_05Yes. Um, like I said, once we decide our release dates, we are on time with these things. Um, but to uh to start every episode, the way we start, or to start this episode, the way we start every episode, senor Dona Claus, what have you been playing? What's new in your wild in terms of gaming and other such things to banter about?
SPEAKER_01Well, uh, I tried out Hi-Fi Rush on stream because of an ill-fated Chrono Trigger uh PC stream that did not work out.
SPEAKER_05You might even say Chrono Trigger didn't want to trigger?
SPEAKER_01Yes, yeah, absolutely did not want to trigger. Did not want to. So I was unable to start that all complete or all runs complete playthrough, but I still have it in the works. I'm just trying to figure out how to do it. Um, but I am playing something off-stream that I uh wanted to share with you. Uh, I know that I've talked to you at length, Grant, about playing a game, a certain game with me and a few others before. But you did not want to play it because you felt that you uh would not enjoy playing it because it is a uh salt party, basically.
SPEAKER_05Right. Despite the fact that I love salt on my food, I don't like salt from my video games, especially the salt that fuels my own tears.
SPEAKER_01So the game that I asked you to play with me was Dokupon Kingdom Connect.
SPEAKER_05Right. And we thought Mario Party was salty.
SPEAKER_01Oh my god. Uh that has nothing on Dokupon Kingdom. But I have asked you to play this game with me, and you've did you've denied my request for you know the reasons you've stated. Uh, but off stream, I've tried out a new Dokapon game that was recommended to me uh by a friend of mine. Shout out to Dale. Um Dale recommended that uh actually he he gifted the game to me and said you should play this game. And I was like, okay. And it was a game called Dokupon Sword of Fury, which is uh very similar to Dokapon Kingdom, although same but different kind of feel. Uh it is done with 2D graphics on the game board and 3D graphics when you are fighting uh you know creatures on the field. Interesting.
SPEAKER_04Okay.
SPEAKER_01It is, it is. Um, the other thing that's different about it is in Dokupon Kingdom Connect, uh slash you know, old school Dokupon Kingdom on the PS2 Wii, when you play the game, you get to pick a class and you get to upgrade that class, level up, and when you level up a class, you unlock new classes and so forth and so on. Right. Well, in Dokupon Sword of Fury, you pick one class and you're that class the rest of the game. There is no picking a different class. So, yes, that is what I've been playing off stream. Um, and I'm not sure how I feel about it so far. Not sure how I feel about it.
SPEAKER_05Okay. Uh do you like the old Dokapon style, the OG Dokapan style better?
SPEAKER_01Or do it's just so in this other game, you can give advantage to other players. So if you are a first-time player, you can say, you know what, I want to give Grant an advantage when he rolls, or when you know, RNG Jesus comes down to bless him. Uh, so it would give you an advantage on your roles, on your um random outcomes, uh, and the other players would just have this you know standard RN Jesus, uh, not R and Jesus premium like you would have, uh without a subscription um necessary.
SPEAKER_05Okay, so you'd be gifting I love that I love that this is a thing now. You are gifting me a subscription to RN Jesus. Yes. That that is a thing we can say in 2025 gaming.
SPEAKER_01No ads for you when you are watching that Twitch stream. Um, but otherwise, uh, I've been I gave myself the advantage because I'm playing against the computer, but the computer is still fucking doing what it's gonna do, which is be a computer and win. Uh so I'm still kind of like a little iffy on the game, but well, I need to play it a little bit more. Um and then I've also been playing off-stream this game called Axiom uh Verge, uh, I believe, which is a uh Metroid-like game. I wouldn't even say it's a Metroidvania, it is Metroid, uh for all intents and purposes. It looks like it, it has a very similar gameplay. You're on an alien world and you know, doing crazy things, getting upgrades as you go through the world. Like it's pretty fun, actually. Um, so I'm playing through through some of that. Uh I might actually play through the sequel on stream because it seems like a fun game. So yeah. Nice. That that's pretty much what I've been playing, uh, besides you know um the stuff that I mentioned last time. Mm-hmm. How about yourself, Grant? What have you been playing?
SPEAKER_05Well, uh, aside from the stuff that I mentioned last time, it's really just been kind of on a mobile kick. I I go through these phases where I revisit the mobile games I like, whether it be new events just to uh give myself some variety. I've been playing some Yu-Gi-Oh! Duel Links, uh Final Fantasy VII Ever Crisis, um, opening my packs in Pokemon TCG Pocket. Um, and off stream, I have been playing Kirby Air Riders, um, and Claire X Claire Obscure Exhibition 33.
SPEAKER_00Not exhibition, expedition.
SPEAKER_05I made the mistake anyway.
SPEAKER_00What are you exhibiting, Grant?
SPEAKER_05I have to do that.
SPEAKER_00Are you exhibiting hot stuff?
SPEAKER_05I have no idea what I'm exhibiting, aside from some part turn-based RPG skills. Anyway, um, Claire X Claire Obscure Expedition 33. There you go. I've been playing that one. I almost did the exhibition line again. Almost did.
SPEAKER_01I heard it. I heard it. Um far are you in that game, by the way?
SPEAKER_05Um, I wouldn't say I'm very far. I just got my fourth party member. Um I am learning that um main like, and again, it's been a minute since I have picked the game back up. So, main character, dude, first party member you unlock, and the most recent party member I unlock are my three in my party right now. Um, fencing lady, unfortunately, just yeah, it she ain't cutting it for what I need right now in terms of gameplay and party strategy. Um, everybody in my party right now can heal themselves, which is fantastic for where I'm at where at least it feels that way for me for where I'm at in the game.
unknownOkay.
SPEAKER_05Um but I understand that if you build your characters correctly with gear and elements and certain skills, you can uh and I'm seeing it with the uh rapier lady or rapier lady. Um I am seeing it with her that if you if you load her out correctly, oh my god, she is damage dealer to the extreme. Yes, absolutely, or or has that capability.
SPEAKER_01So I was streaming that game not too long after uh it came out. Maybe I want to say maybe a month or two after it came out, I started streaming it. Um, but then I stopped streaming it because I was too I took I felt I took too much time with loading out my characters with different uh gears, different pictos and everything to the point where I felt it was maybe even boring to watch me, you know, kind of go over what I was trying to put on my character to spec them out the way that I wanted to. Uh so I stopped streaming it, but and I haven't gotten back to it since. I need to go back to it because um I hear the game uh is fantastic, and I've only I've gotten past the first act, but I haven't gotten too far after that.
SPEAKER_05Gotcha. It it again, my experience has been very fun with it. Um, I just completed a side quest where I had to get these uh uh sparkling stone fragments and return them to an enemy outside of the cave I need to go through for progression. Um but yeah, I'm just finding that the person I unlocked most recently for my party, her um her light and darkness mechanic that allows you to stack, it's so good. Oh my god, it deals crazy damage after maybe one or two turns. And the fact that one of her attacks is like a lifesteal, which is how she can heal. So pair that lifesteal with a few buffs, and she can fully heal herself while killing an enemy.
SPEAKER_01Yes. Now I have a question for you.
SPEAKER_05Yes.
SPEAKER_01Are you camp perry or camp dodge?
SPEAKER_05Right now, I am camp dodge just because I am finding the rhythm with the dodges. One of the things I thought when I was playing through that game, and probably one of the strangest comparisons I ever thought I'd have to make as a gamer, but I'm like, this is what Mario and Luigi RPG feels like. You learn attack rhythms and you have to press the appropriate button in time with the rhythm to either get the perfect dodge or a regular dodge. And if you have the if you've mastered the pickdos that give you more uh ability points uh with perfect dodges, you get the rhythm down, you get the perfect dodges, you get the AP faster, you can buff yourself, heal yourself much more consistently. And honestly, for dodging, for whatever reason, it just feels like the attacks are easier to read. That's fair. When it comes to parrying, I have to read the attacks a little differently, and I have to know how long exactly, like frame by frame, how long it takes for me to pull the sword up or activate the parry stance to make that happen. And I'm just like, with dodging, once you press the button, you already enter invincible. If you pull it off right, once you press the button, you already enter invincible. There's not that press X button to like five frames of lag to hopefully parry. You know?
SPEAKER_01I I gotta tell you, man, it's so satisfying when you get the parries, though.
SPEAKER_05Oh, I've gotten a few, and I agree. But for battle consistency, I am definitely team Dodge.
SPEAKER_01That's fair. Maybe that's another reason that I put it down because I was too, too uh parry uh excitable. Like I had to get everything with a parry.
SPEAKER_05You might even say you were parry excited. That was horrible.
SPEAKER_01Hey, they can't all be winners. As my brother says, they can't all be bangers, you know? They can't. So yeah, uh the point being, uh, you should play that game. It's very good. Uh has a little bit of something for everyone. Um so the main reason go ahead.
SPEAKER_05I was just gonna say the main reason I kind of put it down is because the other thing I've been doing off stream is getting my Legend ZA save file ready for the DLC that drops tomorrow as of this episode's record date. It drops tomorrow? It drops tomorrow. Oof. Wednesday, excuse me. Um, but it still a couple days from now, as of this episode's recording date. So I just want to make sure that I have a team of Pokemon or three teams with legendaries to make sure that I can battle the over-level 100s I will be facing.
SPEAKER_01As long as you have Hawlucha on your team, I'm good with it.
SPEAKER_05Oh, yeah. Senior Donuts, uh, it it's um they they are a staple. Um both in Pokemon and IRL. Let's face it.
SPEAKER_00Oh, stop.
SPEAKER_05Did this guy, did this guy. Uh, but on the subject of that release date that I just bungled, that is our topic today. The release date conundrum. What qualifies as a release versus a launch? Uh, delays behind it, anything that we just find funny about release date cycles. Um just yeah, gaming release dates. Like the meme that is we will get X before we get GTA 6.
SPEAKER_01Yes, that has that's so crazy that that has become a meme. You know, like and and you could place anything in X, and it would still be true, and it would work exactly.
SPEAKER_05Like, we I uh the the most recent version I saw is we got SpongeBob canonically in a Sonic game before we got GTA 6.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, which is true.
SPEAKER_05Um we were technically getting uh the Legend ZA DLC before we get GTA 6. Um let's see. We got Metroid Prime 4 with all with that release cycle before we got GTA 6.
SPEAKER_01You know what's wild to me? The fact that on release date of the Pokemon game, yeah, they were like, hey, guess what? DLC! Like, bro, you're killing me with this. Like I'm I I'm just an old man yelling at clouds right now because I feel that you know we we lived in an age where we got a full game released, right? Bugs and all. And we liked it, damn it. We got exactly what we wanted, and then you know, fucking DLC started with a fucking uh accessory for a horse. Yes, and as soon as that happened, that's when developers said, Hey, you know what? It's okay to release a game and not have it fully released with everything that's in the game.
SPEAKER_05I would like to pose, um uh uh before I pose this uh potential wrinkle in what you were saying. Uh remind me again, which was the thing, what what was the game that had the DLC in the um figure of a horse? Are we talking Legend of Zelda?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, no, no, we are not talking Legend of Zelda. I wanna say, I wanna say it was Oblivion. Um one of the Oblivion games, but I could be a hundred percent wrong on that. Okay. Um, I'm just recalling from back in my my knowledge uh of useless information uh that that's what it was. It was it was a a horse uh armor that you know was released as a uh purely aesthetic thing, didn't give you any bonuses or anything like that.
SPEAKER_05The first aesthetic DLC skin.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and it was for it was it wasn't even for your main character, it was for your fucking horse, you know? Like, yes, everybody wants to have a pretty horse, but god damn, that opened the floodgates to all of the stuff, like all of the DLC, all of the you know mobile games, paying uh having pay-to-play uh, you know, um ways to uh game models, you know. Right. You had you had your clash of clans where you can buy gems to upgrade your stuff faster and all this other stuff.
SPEAKER_05I mentioned Yu-Gi-Oh! duel links a little while ago. You can get in-game currency for free by playing duels to get more packs, or you can spend money to get a lot more jewels to be able to buy an entire box at once, so you can basically get the gratification of opening cards and the strongest deck real quick.
SPEAKER_01Same thing with the Pokemon TCG app, you know?
SPEAKER_05It's uh one thing all there. The thing I wanted to bring up though, is um the Kingdom Hearts series, I want to say, I don't know that I would call it like uh a DLC, like pre getting the jump on DLC, but uh you had asked me this away from recording. The Kingdom Hearts series in Japan, before we got the 1.5 remix, 2.5 remix, uh 2.8 final chapter prologue, before we got all those all those re-releases, the OG PS2. Yes, PS2, PS2 Kingdom Hearts games, we just got Kingdom Hearts and then Kingdom Hearts 2 and Kingdom Hearts Birth by Sleep and the other Kingdom Hearts games, all the rest. But Japan only, before those remix compilations I mentioned a minute ago, they got the final mix versions of the Kingdom Hearts games that we now have in our remix collections. So hold on.
SPEAKER_01Which so you're saying, you're telling me that when when they made this game, yes, Japan got the final mix version immediately.
SPEAKER_05And the very soon after. Very soon after. As a re-release with a new disc and added story content, uh revised difficulty, optimized graphics, uh loadouts to the skill trees and level up points that we see in the uh HD collections. Japan got those things soon after the initial release. Like how soon? I want to say um Chain of Memories was a little different because they gave Chain of Memories the final mix treatment, but also made it fully 3D playable when they released three Chain of Memories instead on the PS2 instead of the Game Boy Advance. But for Kingdom Hearts 1, 2, and Birth by Sleep, I want to say maybe within a year of the original game's release, we got these Final Mix re-releases.
SPEAKER_01Oh god, that's so stupid. That is that is a um go on before I start ranting.
SPEAKER_05Um all I was gonna say with that is it's like we got the full release, and they were, you know, they were fun, full-fledged games, but then they decided, hey, there were some story beats we wanted to add and kind of couldn't because of the deadline. So we're or for whatever other reason they used in development, I'm only speculating. They're like, we're gonna re-release it with some graphical tweaks, some gameplay tweaks, more story beats. Um I don't know for sure if Kingdom Hearts 2 final mix is where we got critical mode for the first time. Uh I don't I I don't have that knowledge off the top of my head. But yeah, uh we got final mixes and everywhere outside of Japan got final mixes with these HD re-releases. Japan got final mixes usually within a year of the original's release, except Chain of Memories, which got the final mix treatment, but also the full 3D playable upgrade uh when Rechain of Memories came out.
SPEAKER_01That to me on the outside looks like just a greed thing. Like if you were releasing a game and you were gonna remake it, remaster it, whatever, there needs to be time between that to happen, right? I think. Feel a year, right? And you said it yourself. You don't know the logistics behind it. You don't know if they were under pressure of a deadline or whatever. So they didn't they didn't get to release their director's cut, basically. Right. Um I feel like what should have happened, right? Because you said that they released it as a brand new game, basically, right?
SPEAKER_05Yep. New disc, new cover art, uh instruction manual, the the whole bit.
SPEAKER_01That's bullshit. What should have happened is it should have been the game, and then they should have released a free DLC to it. Like if you're gonna make me pay a you know pretty hefty fee for a new game, and then you're gonna say, oh, hey, here's some extra story that you know ties up loose ends or whatever that I didn't get in the original game, and you're gonna lock it behind a paywall, that's fucking bullshit. It should be that you give me the story, the complete story of a game with my initial purchase, or you release it as uh, you know, an add-on DLC that's free. If you're doing more with it, like you said, like where it's hey, we're adding uh revamped graphics, we're adding new music, we're adding new bosses or whatever that have nothing to do with the story or the gameplay, really. Yeah. That could be like uh, you know, a later on full, not even full price, like maybe maybe half price release or something like that. I feel that it's just locked behind greed that people are allowing this to happen, that fans of genres are allowing this to happen. That's why instead of getting like a full-on fledged, like full-on new experience with these sports games, right? Iterative releases yeah, you have yearly releases for these games, and they're not improving anything.
SPEAKER_05They're not, they're not like they're just except for maybe the graphics, depending on how they can optimize things. Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_01Slightly graphical upgrades, and this is what I had my this is where I had my gripe with the new Pokemon game. Everybody was fucking poll chalking on this game, saying that, oh man, it's so good and all this other stuff. And I'm like, sure, okay, you're a Pokemon fan and you're you're happy that you got a new Pokemon game and all this other stuff. But look at the game and tell me, tell me that it is really all that great when your graphics haven't been super updated. The city that you're wandering around looks fucking dead and looks like it's cut and paste. All right. And then you're also releasing announcing day one that you're releasing a DLC for this game. When you could have waited, uh geez, how long ago did the game come out?
SPEAKER_05Uh maybe a month.
SPEAKER_01A month.
SPEAKER_05Maybe a month or two tops.
SPEAKER_01You could have waited to release this game, including the DLC, and said, Hey, this is our game. We're adding this to the game, and that's it. You're not gonna pay an extra $30 for this stuff because it's already in the game. When you were playing games like Chrono Trigger or Final Fantasy VI, you got the whole damn story, and that was it.
SPEAKER_05Like we can even use Pokemon as previous examples of that, like Pokemon Sun and Moon on the 3DS. You got the full story there. Um, you uh Pokemon Heart, Gold, and Soul Silver, yeah, it was a remake, but you got the full original Gold and Silver story with the elements of Crystal and new stuff on top of it to be like, no, this was the director's cut we always wanted, but didn't have the tech to do. So they waited a few handheld generations to you know fall into the Pokemon remake cycle, and it's like, this is what we can do with Johto. This is what we want to do with Johto.
SPEAKER_01I completely understand the hey, this is the director's cut. This is this was the vision that we had originally for this game. But what I what I don't understand, and you know, I I do understand because it's greed and it's you know corporations and all this other stuff that are trying to bleed you dry of any money that you have by offering you a shiny new toy and then saying, Oh, hey, here's some extra batteries for you so you can enjoy this toy for longer, or a bigger battery pack so you can enjoy this game for much longer.
SPEAKER_05Profits will always be an answer to this sort of thing.
SPEAKER_01And that's that's exactly the thing. That's exactly the thing. Profits will always be the factor in these games. There will never be another game that is fully released, right? Right. That is fully released that doesn't have any DLC except for uh indie games, because they don't they they don't know if they're gonna get a sequel or if they're gonna have more time to work on it. They have their full game.
SPEAKER_05The only game I want to say in modern history that you know matches the indie game model you just presented, according to the direct on the game, Kirby Air Riders. Masahiro Sakurai said in the direct, he's like, there will not be DLC with this game. We wanted to get we got everything we wanted into this game, and you are getting it all on release day.
SPEAKER_01Sakurai is the goat.
SPEAKER_05He really is. Like, that man is literally getting a manga written about his life and his game development. That is how much of the goat he is.
SPEAKER_01Like it there need to be more developers like that. But because of because of money, because of greed, there I don't think we'll ever go back to that age where hey, this is a full-on AAA game that has no DLC plan, that this is the end of the story, there's no more stuff to add to it, right? Like it used to be, hey, other things that we're adding to this game, this is the sequel, and this uh expands on the the you know story of the first game, you know? Um right. So that's trying to think. I'm trying to think if God of War, the the recent uh newer version of God of War, had like significant DLC to it or not.
SPEAKER_05It had that Ragnarok, it had that like Ragnarok is its own game, though.
SPEAKER_01Ragnarok's its own game, but it had it have something to ra to uh Ragnarok. I do remember it had a roguelike added to it, but it it didn't have it. It did, it did, it did have story beats, but it felt like it was its own thing, uh, because it was still hinted at in the in the previous game. In in uh God of War Ragnarok, you know, Kratos is just like, I don't know how to move on from where I was. People want me to be their their their leader, a new god, basically, and he wants to step away from that. But in in the um the DLC of that game, Valhalla, uh they they touch on it and expand upon it to make it more of a this is uh it's not necessary. This isn't necessary to get the whole story because you get the whole story in in part two, right? Yeah, but it adds a new mechanic in the whole uh roguelike god of war kind of sphere, and it adds a slight expanding upon the story. It's not necessary to play this story, and uh geez, I don't even know if it was I don't even know if it was free or not. I think it might have been, but I'm I could be a hundred percent wrong.
SPEAKER_05I feel like it was uh I feel like it was not free, but it didn't cost very much, so the expense was nominal.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, like I'm I'm okay with stuff like that in in terms of of DLC or story content because that game didn't add a ton of the story, it added more clarifying bits, but it added a whole new gameplay mechanic in the roguelike uh section of it. So, you know, I I don't know, man. Like I have been around video games for so long and have seen where they've been and where they are going, and it makes me sad that we will never really go back to that age of having a full game on release date. The only thing that comes to mind recently is Team Cherry's uh Hollow Knight Silks Song. That game uh took its sweet ass time to come out, but it came out as one of the most polished, uh, you know, complete games that I have seen in a long time. I don't know if they're gonna have Silksong, uh uh Silksong DLC. I haven't beaten the game yet. Um, all I know is that the game is very polished, looks fantastic, plays fantastic, and I'm glad that the team took their time to make this game. Not only that, but they priced it at a very uh very good price uh for a game that some would consider uh you know a triple A game. You know? Yeah. And now you're getting games that are like $60, $70. The newer gen games are $70, $80. And you're like, right, what the fuck is this about, man? Come on.
SPEAKER_05The I do want to go back to Kingdom Hearts, but then provide my own example uh from a more recent game, like maybe a couple years old, that I also feel like did things right, while also it also kind of relates to Kingdom Hearts a little bit. Uh, to address one of the points you made about the final mix thing, I don't think the PS2 had DLC capabilities. So the PS2 would not have been able to have the DLC suggestion applied to the final mix versions of Kingdom Hearts 1 and Kingdom Hearts 2. Birth by Sleep was on the PlayStation Portable.
SPEAKER_01Vita or portable? Was it the Vita?
SPEAKER_05It was on the portable, it was on the PSP. Um yeah, the PlayStation Portable. I think that game did have DLC. So with that one, it could have applied. And with Kingdom Hearts 3, in light of the whole not needing a final mix thing anymore, that's what they ended up doing. You paid 15 bucks for three extra story chapters, um, more things to unlock, uh critical mode and two of the keyblades came free in an update the same day the DLC launched, which I can't remember, but I think the king the Kingdom Hearts 3 DL, the remind DLC launched like the same day as another triple A game. And Kingdom Hearts 3 got more attention than that triple A release. I forget which one it was, but I remember seeing the memes and just how Kingdom Hearts was dominating that day because that's when they decided to release the DLC.
SPEAKER_01That's rough, man. That also that also comes into another topic for releases, right? Like, when do you come out with a game so that it's not eaten up by whatever triple A game is coming out at the same day? A lot of developers were kind of pissed when uh when Team Cherry released Silksong because it was kind of a shadow drop.
SPEAKER_05Yep. And they knew like Yeah, they knew another instance of that that I that I could think of in the recent past was the 90s era rivalry revival of Mario vs. Sonic back in 2023 when Mario Wonder and Sonic Superstars released within three days of each other. Mario Wonder's hype was so huge that Sonic Superstars just got swallowed up by it. Sonic Who? Exactly. Unless you have a dedicated fan like me in the midst who's like, I'm gonna get both because duh. Um it's like if I have to pick a platformer, it's Mario, because Mario got the hype. Uh classic Sonic Who, uh super what? Um but but speaking of Sonic, that was the other thing I wanted to bring up. Because with Sonic Frontiers, you paid like 50, 60 bucks for the full game, get the full experience, full story, all that. Yes, they had DLC planned, but it was all for free. Wave one, you get some new cosmetics and new challenges in the overworld. Wave two. No, wait, yeah, wave one was some uh gameplay modes from the main menu that you could access outside of the story to replay some stuff. Wave two was new overworld challenges, adding a new move and a jukebox player. And wave three was a completely rewritten final climax of the game while also adding playable tails, Amy, and Knuckles. All of that was for free, and we got it within a year of the game's launch, like just free content updates. So anybody who buys Frontiers now will still get all that stuff because of all the updates the game will need to go through when they put it in their system or load it on their machine if they're doing it on PC.
SPEAKER_01All of that for free fitty-free?
SPEAKER_05Free fitty-free. When I streamed it back in the day, I didn't have to pay a cent for the extra stuff.
SPEAKER_01That's fantastic. Right. That kind of stuff, that's that's what game developers should do. But of course, it's a business. It's a business. You have to make your money somehow. Right.
SPEAKER_05And it it it sort of begs the question, and we touched on this in a past episode, I think. Are we in an era where games launch now because they're expected to have updates in DLC and community support and things like that? Or do we still get enough releases like the Silksongs and the Kirby Air Riders, where calling it a release still doesn't feel so disingenuous because the release for the most part only counts about the base game. And this, of course, is not talking about your service games like the Dual Links and the Fortnite and the PUBG and the basically any gotcha game. But for the main for like major headliner games, do we still call it a release if DLC is expected and updates are expected to be made post-launch? Or do we call it a launch because we expect those updates in that DLC integration now? Or are they just or is it just a tomato tomata situation?
SPEAKER_01I think it's just pedantics, honestly. Like, you know, when you're going with between a release and a launch of a title, the game is gonna be, you know, launched or released. That the it's it's out, meaning people can play it. Like on Steam, they have what's called early release or early access for you know, players that have said, hey, I believe in this project, I'm gonna pay for it right now, and I'm gonna get access to play it. Perfect example, Hades 2. Hades 2 was an early access for, I want to say about a year um before they uh released their 1.0 version, which means this is the version, this is the base game, right? Got it. I don't know if they're gonna have any DLC for it, but a game like Hades 2, where it has a ton of replayability just because of everything that you have to unlock in the game, uh, it I've I've reached the point in the game where I've unlocked all of the story, but I can go back uh to before the story took place uh by resetting the game within the game. So it basically says, hey, uh if you want to restart this game, but have access to it's like basically a new game plus. Got it.
SPEAKER_05Okay.
SPEAKER_01So they have a new game plus in this uh in this roguelike game, which is crazy, uh, because you know, yeah, you you advance through the game with whatever things you have, um, in in typical roguelike fashion. But that game was in uh early access for almost a year, and or maybe even longer than that. And when I jumped into the game, it was still an early early release. Whenever I got as far as I could, it came up with a message saying, Hey, thanks for playing an early early release. We're still working on this game. Uh, you can continue you know playing it and doing all this other stuff, yeah. That was fine, and your progress carried over to the full release. So when they inevitably had more story to unlock, you still had your stuff, you still had your progress. You didn't need to start all over. And that I feel was a fantastic uh model for the game because you got to play the game, you got to see the work that the developer had on this title. Anything that like uh that improved upon what you started with was fascinating to see. And I wish that there that more games would have that early access where you got to see uh, hey, this is our game, it's playable, but it's rough. Please, you know, uh accept it. Any bugs that you see, let us know. And that's it's kind of a way to you know uh turn your fans into QA testers, basically. Yeah, kinda. But but people go into it with that expectation already. So they're not only a fan of this game series, they're now a part of the development cycle themselves. And uh I feel that that's uh it's a great way to kind of I guess bridge the gap between uh between being a fan and being like part of one of your fandoms.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01What if what if you had Kingdom Hearts 4 in an early access kind of thing where you got to play the game, you got to experience what they had so far, and you also were able to give feedback on how what worked and what didn't work.
SPEAKER_05I mean, I I I appreciate the hypothetical, but I can share actual experiences with that with the Sonic series. Um, the Sonic Racing Cross Worlds open network test. That literally that's what that was about. Testing for latency, seeing people play the game online, experiment with characters and builds that could help them tweak certain things before the official release. And Sonic Rumble, I straight up just applied to be an early, like to be an early uh to beta test it basically. Sure. Um, I applied, they they accepted me, and I was able to play the game during certain uptimes in its pre-launch phase and provide feedback with a survey. So it in that sense, I really like that's why whenever I can, I do like to stream Sonic Rumble, if it makes sense, because I've got that personal connection to it. I am a part of it, just like you pointed out. And before it got canceled, Missing Link was going to be a Kingdom Hearts mobile game, kind of like Pokemon Go, that invited players to multiple early access tests. One here in the US, I think it was the US and Australia, got one and Japan got another. But ultimately they decided to cancel the game for some reason. Still not stated why, but yeah. But it it just it it feels I'm with you. I want to go back to an era or at least maybe more developers pull what Sega and Sonic team did with Frontiers. Like have a competent base game, something that you are proud of enough to want to share with your fandom and your community from the jump. And then if you want to make additions to it, do so for free for the player's benefit. So any new players that come in after the DLC cycles have ended can still get the full experience like it is a proper release.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_05From back in the day when you get full games up front that don't really. Qualify as remakes or remasters when they do get re-released. I'm talking the Kingdom Hearts Final Mix collections. I'm talking Super Mario All-Stars from back on the Super Nintendo. Like the full game up front. I wish we could go back to that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Now we're kind of just stuck in this cycle of uh, you know, gold versions of games. Right. Where you you wait like a year to play this super hyped up game, right? And then they release a gold version where they give you the full game and all of the season's passes or DLCs that they came out for, uh, for a not not the same price as when you when they came out with it, maybe like twenty dollars cheaper or whatever.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, like factoring in all the DLC's prices with the base game and like striking a balance to be like if you buy this gold version, you get all the DLC for a lower price than if you would have bought all the DLC up front. Yeah. Dangling that in front of you. But not even but not every game gets a gold version. Not every game gets that, you know, that physical re-release treatment, that final mix treatment, for lack of a better phrase. Because that's another the the gold versions are just those games final mix with all the with all the extra added stuff.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. It's just uh I don't know, man. We're never gonna go back to that era, and there will be very few developers that are able to do that uh due to either you know financial constraints or time constraints.
SPEAKER_05Um that leads me to one other thing we can talk about on releases. Um now we are in an era because we're in this weird era of releases, what the heck is up with timed console exclusivity? If the entire game is done and you can release it, and you have a pledge to go multi-platform, why wait to go multi-platform with it?
SPEAKER_01Uh, because you know, the companies Sony, Xbox, Nintendo, uh, PC, they have contracts in place with these game developers that say, hey, look, we will give you a certain amount of money to keep this as a timed exclusive for our software or for our hardware. And then afterwards you can release it on whatever, right? It's another way to get cash uh for your project by saying, hey, look, this is going to be an exclusive for your console for X amount of months or whatever, right? Um, plus, it gives the developer extra time to work out kinks for another software or for another hardware system.
SPEAKER_05Got it.
SPEAKER_01So at least that's that's to my knowledge uh of the industry, which I don't work in the industry, so it's all just basically hearsay or what I would think would be the thing. Um because yeah, like you have games like Ghost of Tsushima or Stellar Blade that were, hey, this is a PlayStation game, but now it's available on PC. Right? And even those ports sometimes are not good ports because there's there's different architecture to a PC game versus a PlayStation game, right?
SPEAKER_05Even if we do call them all fancy computers, you're absolutely right.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, uh, I believe the Spider-Man um the Spider-Man game. Yes, the Insomniac Spider-Man game that was released for the PlayStation 5 was great, fantastic, loved it. And then they ported it to PC, and it had a lot of issues, a lot of bugs, a lot of crashes, um, things like that that wouldn't allow it to run properly, even on the most high-end of PCs. And people, uh, sorry, developers that do not have the resources uh to optimize it for one console versus a PC. Um that that just comes with that also that console exclusivity. Like we built this game for the PlayStation. We're gonna bring it to PC or whatever, but we need more time to optimize it. And even then, there's updates uh and such when players find bugs or whatever, because nowadays a bug can be patched over the air, over Wi-Fi, right? And uh games are no longer uh if they are triple A games, triple A games will always be patched up um as much as they can be to make them uh run optimally on whatever they're running on.
SPEAKER_05Yep.
SPEAKER_01Right? Because they have the means, they have the money, the manpower to do it. Um but like you know, these other games that are like one person, two-person studios or whatever, they they don't have that luxury, and they release their game and you know, just kind of like say a prayer to make sure that it releases and doesn't have as many bugs as it could have. But we'll never we'll never get another game, uh like another physical game that cannot be patched uh for forever. I mean, I don't everything is digital, there's always a digital version of a game, and as long as there is a digital version of a game, there's there will be updates over Wi-Fi.
SPEAKER_05Exactly.
SPEAKER_01So that's just the era that we live in, and one that we'll have to get used to.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, and the terminology between launch and release is basically semantics at this point. My god, I feel crotchety. Um so crotchety. Um, but on the subject of releases and all of the chicanery we've been discussing, I've got a little bit of a quiz for you covering some categories about releases and seeing if your encyclopedic knowledge of game releases and all that holds up.
SPEAKER_01Bro, this is gonna be a repeat of the last quiz that you gave me. Oh no. I'm just gonna fail it horribly. But you know what? Let's do it.
SPEAKER_05Uh I I am crossing my fingies that it uh that it's not quite that bad. I'd like to think it's not quite that bad. But this game, this game is called Release Date Rumble.
unknownOkay.
SPEAKER_05And we have four categories. Um, this first this first category of three questions centers around holiday releases.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_05Question one. Uh for this first round, I give you the title of a game.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_05And you gotta tell me if it was released around the holidays or not. Oh, okay. That's because we both because we both know what the holiday season does for uh businesses and game developers and all that.
SPEAKER_01New Super Mario Bros.
SPEAKER_05Wii.
SPEAKER_01That was not during the holidays.
SPEAKER_05It was during the holidays. It was a So far, 0 for 1.
SPEAKER_010 for 1.
SPEAKER_05It was released in November. Nintendo's prime holiday sales window. All right. The Resident Evil 4 Remake, holidays or not?
SPEAKER_01No holiday.
SPEAKER_05Absolutely right. It was released in March, and March releases often hit the fiscal year deadline instead of the holidays. Oh, okay. Again, more businessy things. Sure, sure. The last one for this round, Animal Crossing New Horizons.
SPEAKER_03Oh man.
SPEAKER_05Holidays or nah, Senior Donut Claws.
SPEAKER_01I'm trying to think. Uh, because I know that was a huge game during the pandemic. And when did the shutdown occur? I'm gonna say it was holidays.
SPEAKER_05It was not, though it sold like it was a holiday game because of the unexpected popularity it got during the pandemic.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. God damn it. I thought I had that one too.
SPEAKER_05I it was close. I could I could I could see the Yule Tide cogs turning. Um Round two, release date fever dream. These are true or false questions. Okay. True or false? A Legend of Zelda game and a Barbie movie released on the same day.
SPEAKER_01I'm gonna say that's false. It's true.
SPEAKER_05God fucking damn. Are you serious? According to my sources on this one, Link's Awakening and Barbie Supermodel released on the same day in 1992.
SPEAKER_01Oh, okay. I misunderstood. I misunderstood the question. I thought that you meant that the movie, the Barbie movie.
SPEAKER_05Oh, no, no, not the Barbie movie, a Barbie movie. I see where you got lost.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Can we can we scratch that one from the record then? Can we say that this that I automatically get this question uh correct because I misinterpreted the question?
SPEAKER_05I hang on a second. I don't know that that's how that works, but well, we'll we'll omit it from the total score. How's that?
SPEAKER_01Okay, okay, I'm fine with that.
SPEAKER_05We'll omit it from the total score.
SPEAKER_01Okay. That's perfectly fine with me.
SPEAKER_05Question five. True or false? Sega souprise launched the Saturn the same day it was announced.
SPEAKER_03False.
SPEAKER_05True. God retailers retailers hated it. It was a console shadow drop, and reportedly it also contributed to why uh the Saturn flopped so bad.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Yeah, god damn it. So far, I've only got one question right. Is that what you're telling me?
SPEAKER_05That would be correct.
SPEAKER_01God damn it. This is even worse than last time.
SPEAKER_05Oh no. Well, question six, last one from this round. True or false? A Pokemon game launched on Valentine's Day.
SPEAKER_01Oh fucking God, Jesus Christ. Come on, man. I don't know anything about Pokemon. I can't name any Pokemon beyond the 151 original. Well, um except for like, you know, Torchic, because that was like one of the Pokemon that I picked.
SPEAKER_05Gotcha.
SPEAKER_01Uh uh, hold on. Let me. I think I got this one. Read the question one more time.
SPEAKER_05A Pokemon game launched on Valentine's Day.
SPEAKER_01That's gonna be false.
SPEAKER_05True. God! Fuck! Come on, man! Pokemon Fire Red and Leaf Green launched on Valentine's Day 2004 in Japan. That's some fucking bullshit. Round three. The worldwide wait. I give you, I give you the name of a game, and you tell me if you can rem it that you you'll basically need to know whether it's Japan or us. Whether we got it first, Japan got it first, or if it's something else.
SPEAKER_01Okay. How many of these have we got?
SPEAKER_05Three. It's three questions per category.
SPEAKER_01I've only gotten one so far, Grant. I've only gotten one. The last quiz that we fucking did, you got everything right except for one fucking question.
SPEAKER_05That's just because I happen to know yoga, dude. That's because I happen to know yoga, dude. I leaned on that rather than. Whatever.
SPEAKER_01Give me the fucking question. Give me the damn question. All right.
SPEAKER_05Alright, Mr. Notso Holly Joliday Senior Donut Claws. Here's question seven. Super Smash Bros Melee. Which region got it first?
SPEAKER_01Uh we both got it at the same time?
SPEAKER_05Close, but Japan. Melee was released just over two weeks later in the rest of the world, follow um from Japan. And according to my sources, unusually fast for the year 2001. Halo 2, which got it first.
SPEAKER_01The US.
SPEAKER_05Absolutely right.
SPEAKER_01Ha! There you go. Fucking two! Two! The gentleman's two. I scored it fucking finally. Let's go.
SPEAKER_05And uh it's Halo 2, Gentleman's 2. I see what you're doing.
SPEAKER_01That's right. That's right.
SPEAKER_05All right. The last one for this category is The Witcher 3.
SPEAKER_01We got that one first.
SPEAKER_05Worldwide simultaneous launch. Fun fact CD Project Red insisted on this global unified release.
SPEAKER_01Out of nine questions, I got two correct.
SPEAKER_05All right. This last category is the one-day showdown, basically talking about close proximity release dates, kind of like the whole Mario Wonder Sonic Superstars thing we touched on in the main episode. Okay. Question 10. Halo 3 and the orange box released on the same day.
SPEAKER_01Is this a true or false?
SPEAKER_05It's a true or false, my bad.
SPEAKER_01Okay. I'm gonna say it's false.
SPEAKER_05You are correct.
SPEAKER_00Oh, thank God. Okay.
SPEAKER_05They released two weeks apart, but the hype cycles were in sync, so that's what everyone remembers. Man. True or false? Question eleven. Skyrim and Minecraft 1.0 released within 48 hours of each other.
SPEAKER_01Oh god, two games that I'm not very familiar with. Fuck um.
SPEAKER_05I might have just uh That is indeed that come on man you're leaving me in the I I'm sorry. Like I I I I read the question and the answer from the sources here, and I'm like, wait a minute. Something's wrong there, so I had to check my sources again. I will give it to you because the quiz itself I made said it was true, but after checking the sources, it's actually false. Default, default, default. Because Skyrim released on November 11th, 2011, and the 1.0 version of Minecraft launched one week later. So it didn't launch within 48 hours of each other. Gotcha. So the question itself was sort of wait, why is this true when the fun fact says it's false?
SPEAKER_00I have to check on this. Gotcha, gotcha, gotcha, gotcha.
SPEAKER_05Last question. Question 12.
SPEAKER_00Here we go.
SPEAKER_05True or false? Super Mario Galaxy 2 and Mario Strikers Charged released on the same day.
SPEAKER_00Nah, that's false. That's false.
SPEAKER_05That is indeed false.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's what I'm talking about.
SPEAKER_05They launched years apart despite both having memorable summer marketing cycles.
SPEAKER_01I was like, there's no way they're gonna cannibalize their boy like that.
SPEAKER_05Nah. They'll cannibalize other platformers, but not their own. That's great. Um what is that? Five out of twelve? Five out of eleven, because we're just removing the um there was one question we removed. It was the Barbie one. Yes. Um, five out of eleven.
SPEAKER_01Hey, that's even better than before. Let's go. Let's go. I count that as a win, baby.
SPEAKER_05Oh, it is a win. It is a win. Um like honestly, if I were posed with some of those questions, I would probably fumble the bag, too.
SPEAKER_01Why are you giving me these fucking hard ass things, Grant? Like, I'm giving you fucking softballs, and you're just like, oh, I'm gonna give donut this one.
SPEAKER_05I didn't realize you were trying to give me softballs, hello. Now that I know we're going softballs here, I'll tone down the difficulty. My bad. No, seriously. I didn't realize we were going softballs on each other.
SPEAKER_01Hey man, I just I gotta I gotta make my boy look good. You know what I'm saying? Gotta make him look smart and hip and with it.
SPEAKER_05I I thought that I don't know what the yoga one was. And as far as I'm aware, when we had that wrestling game, it was all just a bunch of flukes. It was all just a bunch of flukes. Our very first game. Our very first game. It was like, is it Mountain Dew or is it wrestling? Someone who doesn't really watch wrestling, unless I'm with you, and someone who doesn't drink soda at all. All of that was just a bunch of flukes. I swear. Oh man. But now that now that I know we are not going for um senior swall nuts when it comes to my uh quiz difficulties, uh, I will uh I will adjust them for future quizzes when I come up with more quizzes. Uh but yeah, with that, um this has been the timely released episode of Superbanter Bros. Can we talk about that real quick? Can we talk about that real quick?
SPEAKER_00Yes.
SPEAKER_01Just to give just to give you all a peek behind the curtain, all right. We have been toying with releasing this podcast the first day of December. We said, hey, we're gonna release this then. A bunch of personal things came up, and we're not releasing until January 1st, which is our first episode release date. We've been talking it up, hamming it up for a couple of months now, trying to get these episodes out to you in a timely manner, but you know, life comes up sometimes. So we apologize for not getting this to you sooner.
SPEAKER_05That said, that said, though, by the time you're watching this particular episode in the rotation, our weekly, our uh decided upon, probably weekly, but decided upon release cycle will be fully engaged by that point. So weekly?
SPEAKER_01You want to release weekly?
SPEAKER_05I well, by this point, we will have already decided because everybody's going to be seeing it.
SPEAKER_02That's very true. That's very true.
SPEAKER_05Weekly or not. So, like, as far as that goes, um, y'all will already know our release schedule because this is what, episode 11? And we'll be deep into it by that point.
SPEAKER_01Deep, deep into it.
SPEAKER_05Mm-hmm. We will. So um, that's why I say timely released. Because once we decide, we'll have a plan.
unknownYes.
SPEAKER_05And we'll be able to stick to it. Plan it's some of these developers we slammed in this episode. Anyway, uh, that will be our show. Uh, I have been Superbanterbro, Grand Patricio.
SPEAKER_01I have been Superbanter Brother Senior Donut.
SPEAKER_05And we will see you next time on our predetermined, accurate, held to plan release schedule for the next episode. Good night, everybody. Take it easy.