Grappling with Wrestling's History and LORE | The Super Banter Bros. Episode 15

On this week's episode, our resident fresh-baked Luchador Señor D'ohnut helps Grant grapple with some of wrestling's history and lore in this special, match defining deep dive!

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Oh yeah, it's it's Senor Donut and uh his tag team partner uh Grant Patrizio, and we are the Super Binter Brothers. We're gonna talk to date to you, we're gonna holler at you, we're gonna make you tap out, we're gonna pin ya, we're gonna submit ya, we're gonna do all the big bad booty moves that we could think of.

SPEAKER_03 0:28

How many good night everybody's could I've thrown into that intro alone, my dude?

SPEAKER_00 0:33

So many.

SPEAKER_03 0:34

So many.

SPEAKER_00 0:37

How is everyone doing?

SPEAKER_02 0:40

I am Signor Donut, and with me as always is Superbanter brother Grant Patrizio.

SPEAKER_03 0:46

And with that introduction, I it it's hard to know if it'll ever be topped. Nice going, brother. Nice going, brother. Thank you, thank you.

SPEAKER_01 0:56

Um we are the Superbanter brothers, and we talk uh any and everything nerd gaming culture related. We are here today as we are uh on every other uh Monday. Um, if you are watching this or listening to this uh via your uh YouTube or your favorite podcasting source, uh we have been deciding, mulling over what exactly we want to bring to you today in terms of a topic of discussion. And I don't know, I don't know if you could maybe guess at what we're gonna be talking to you about based on what the title of this episode is and also the intro that I uh just gave you a second ago. Um, do you have any guesses, Grant?

SPEAKER_03 1:46

I mean, um well, well, I I get to I get to see you for the video podcasts, and I I I I think I get the reference, but uh before we spoil the topic right away, just uh build up some extra drama and suspense, why don't we start the way we start every episode with a brief check-in, brother to brother? What have you been playing? I will gladly guess after we stall a little more.

SPEAKER_01 2:15

So uh last week I actually took a break from streaming. I did not stream last week. Um, I did collab with another streamer, but I did not actually stream. Got it for that collab. We played a round or two. Actually, it was just one round, one 20-round turn of Mario Party. Ooh, that I lost. Oof. Yeah, I know. It was we played with uh well, Kevaloco 5 set it up, and then uh Quirky Quacker also joined in, and Foxling Bubble as well, both of whom who had never played Mario Party Jamboree. So it was an experience for sure. Um so when I play games that uh are competitive or something of that nature, I usually, you know, I I put I put more uh emphasis on uh the the drama, the the high stakes. Yeah. Um, you know, uh you you've you've played you've played games with me, Grant. You've played Smash, you've kicked my ass multiple times in Smash or Mario Kart, enough to the point where I'm saying, you know, things like, oh great, here comes Grant again, gonna kick all our asses. And you you have rightfully uh you know thought about it and been like, dude, are you okay with me playing? Do you not want me to play against you? Right? Because you've said that to me in the past, right?

SPEAKER_03 3:50

Yeah, because because it's true. Like games are supposed to be fun. If my if playing with me robs you of that fun, then what are we even doing? Please continue.

SPEAKER_01 4:00

That's but that's the thing. Like, whenever I play games and I'm losing or it's not going the way that I want it to go, I'm still having fun. I just put on an air of you know, um shock, awe, surprise, disgust. Um you know, just all of that stuff. I just I I throw it in uh to I guess make it more um to bring to bring the yeah, that that that is the word.

SPEAKER_03 4:31

I was just gonna say to bring the competition, like to make the competition more dramatic, but you already said dramatic.

SPEAKER_01 4:37

So yeah, like uh and and that's I don't know, like whenever I play games uh with friends, um I I tend to have like a um I guess almost uh a caricature of myself when I play uh with people, uh whether I know them personally or not. Um and I don't know, I don't know where that comes from. It's it's a strange thing because when I was playing, uh afterwards, uh one of the people I was playing with, you know, asked if I was okay and if they had crossed a line or something. Yeah. No, it's everything is totally fine. Nothing you nothing you could have done in that game would have triggered me or made me feel bad or anything like that. Like the whole thing like is uh is a game to me. Like it's I'm doing it for entertainment, especially when we're on stream. Yes, right? If we're streaming it, I want to, you know, make people, you know, feel react or whatever to what's going on. And by being over dramatic or uh being a little bit silly or sounding like I am defeated or dejected after I've been playing the villain for most of the game or whatever, uh it's just you know, it I I think it's it's entertaining to people, and I I hope that's the case, but I don't know how to, I guess, turn that off, that aspect of gaming off. So like I will shit talk with the best of them, I will throw shade, I will uh, you know, complain and bitch about you know losing or the position that I'm in or whatever. But at the end of the day, after the game is done, it's it's just you know, everything's done. It's gone, you know. Um, so I I don't know. I don't know if that's like a a a weird um thing that I have where I can't like I don't know, uh I can't not do that, I guess.

SPEAKER_03 6:54

I I I don't know if that's a weird thing. I wouldn't call it a weird thing necessarily, because I have now that you're talking about it this way, I have a sort of caricature that I bring to competitive games as well. And I I think I've shown it when we've played Smash a few times back with the back back with ye olden crowd of our former podcast, back with the ye olden pugs. I would be the one who's just like, so is this the part where I say insert smack talk here? Is this is this the part where I do that, or should I just keep my mouth shut? It it's more like like we have those caricatures, I guess, to continue with the word you use, to try to actually react in more of a in more than just hey, I won that's cool, or hey, I lost, that's not cool, because it's it's part of us having fun. But there is a line that, you know, it it's a very subtle line, and Mr. Not Good with Subtlety over here calling out a subtle line. I know the irony is not lost on me, but there is a subtle line to where it's like, oh, we're just having fun with it, and it's like, okay, the the look of the having fun with it hasn't really changed. It's sort of the same beat repeatedly. Is it still having fun, or is there something that needs to change up? Like going back to the Smash example. Um this is gonna sound like total bragging, and I don't mean for it to, but just to prove the point that one time when we all got together and there was like that 10-match streak where I was cloud and y'all just refused to let me sit down. We're like, no, we're gonna see how many it takes for Grant to lose, or until for us to call it, whichever one of those happens first. Um, like during that whole scenario, I'm just like, okay, I'm gonna do it because the game is fun and I'm having fun with my friends, but sweet mother of Jesus, like is it is it just the melodrama, or am I actually pissing y'all off? What's going on here?

SPEAKER_01 9:04

Um that's the thing. I think it's a little bit of both where it's like it's not like anger at you uh directed at you or anything, it's anger at the frustrations that we have because we haven't been able to bring you to your knees in defeat. Like, even me saying that in is like over dramatic.

SPEAKER_03 9:27

Instead of me saying something like, Oh, we're we're theater kids, we're we're anime watchers, we're dramatic. That's how we do. Like at that point, like at that point, it turned into like a Goku versus like six Vegitas, anyway, right?

SPEAKER_01 9:41

It but here's the thing like and I've uh and this is gonna get kind of like into a weird deep kind of talk or whatever, but uh so I uh when I found out that our kid was on the spectrum, right? It kind of made me think just about me and if I am on the spectrum as well. Um and also my wife, like both of us are uh because I do, I have been um I have been diagnosed as having ADHD, right? But is it more than that? I wonder. Like, am I also on the spectrum? And as you get older, it's kind of uh, especially if you're like on the borderline of it, because there's levels, you know, there's different levels of being on the spectrum. Like, have I just coped enough or learned how to mask enough? But do these games, this competition, bring that out more to where I can't uh, you know, like I say, uh, I can't turn it off. But then afterwards, when the gaming is done, I can go back and be like, oh yeah, everything's fine, nothing is, you know, is wrong. You and I are cool. There's nothing that you would have done that would have uh, you know, hurt me or anything like that. Because I I don't know if I am on the spectrum, but I mean it just it's just made me question question it. And there's such a stigma with you know being like, oh, you're autistic. Like it's it's there's such a stigma uh with that. Um and I have you know grown up with that stigma, and now that I know that my child is on the spectrum, I've had to reframe my thinking on not only him and his behaviors, but also mine, and really kind of put a magnifying lens up to it to say uh these behaviors that I exhibited when I was younger were definitely that. And coming to terms with it or denying it or whatever. Like I'm still constantly battling with that idea of you know, what am I on the spectrum? And, you know, if I am, even though I'm undiagnosed, can I say that I am on the spectrum or not? Like there are certain things that that I do or certain ticks um that you know people say that I have or whatever. And I can't tell personally if I am or not, nor does it matter if I am or not. I don't like there to be any kind of label that makes me feel like another instead of who I am, which is me, which is being unique. Like there is only one me, and nobody else can copy what I am. And the thing that I guess is the thing that's uh that kind of made me think more about it is just this discussion right now has just made me think about that. Like is this something that is that is me or is that is it something that is classified as oh, all people on the spectrum do this or whatever? You know, and it's just like I don't I don't know. I don't know what that uh what that behavior means. Is it positive? Is it negative? It's just it's me and it's genuinely me. It's not like I say that it's a caricature, I say that it's an act or whatever, but if I can't turn it off, is it an act or not?

SPEAKER_03 13:35

You know to take some advice from you know something that we would uh that we uh discussed last time we actually hung out off show in person. Uh is this something you would you just wanted to you know vent about or is this something that I may also chime in with? Because I you can chime in.

SPEAKER_01 13:56

This is this is a podcast.

SPEAKER_03 13:58

We talk back and forth, even even still, like wanted to show that show that show that line of respect, that line of boundary that we talked about last time we were in person. Uh because I because I deal with a lot of that too. Like, even as a kid, it was like as a kid, I showed signs, but was never diagnosed. And then my journey growing up was very similar to what you had said about why does the label matter? My current therapist is in that boat and tells me all the time the label can be there, the label doesn't have to be there. The key thing is learning how your brain works, learning what triggers what, and learning to be in process enough to be able to do what you did and call it out. Basically saying, is this an act or is this really me? Where does it come from? Is it something I feel like I had to put on just to fit in with people back when I was younger that I've carried with me? Is it a newer development? Doing that work regardless of your label or the label of whether or not you're on the spectrum or diagnosed with anything, because I'm not. And you, me, and our IRL friends have all basically confirmed without an official diagnosis that I am also somewhere on the Neurospice rack. So it's we all have those quirks. They're either us or something that neurospicy people do, and regardless, they are still us. If we like it, then we keep doing it. If it serves us and doesn't hurt anybody, that's fine. But if it's something that we are questioning about does this actually hurt people, is it giving an impression that I don't want to give? That's the work that we need to be doing, and you're already doing that. So on the one hand, having the label would be nice to know just to be like, oh, no wonder this is this way. It's a function of this part of my brain, this thing that I just got labeled out. Whether it be on the spectrum, ADHD, the combination of the two. But at the end of the day, whether or not you have the label, you still need to do the work. And as long as you're really doing the work and coming up to the answers to those questions, it's not that the label doesn't matter. It's that the label should be used as a way of just like comparison, not self-criticism. It shouldn't define you. Right. That's what I'm trying to say. Because the work you do on yourself, label or not, your actions and how you present yourself, that's what should define you, not what a label says.

SPEAKER_01 16:50

Mm-hmm. Also on stream, I did something else.

SPEAKER_03 16:56

Oh and this is probably gonna be- Oh, I already oh, I see the corner. I see the corner.

SPEAKER_01 17:01

This is probably also gonna define, or not define, but also be like, oh yeah, yeah, definitely. Uh, I made this on stream because it is a uh pixelated version made of Legos of Super Mario uh and Yoshi from Super Mario World. I see the crank. The little crank right here does this.

SPEAKER_02 17:24

Oh my god, he walks.

SPEAKER_01 17:26

It moves perfectly like it does in the game with the arms, the legs, the cape, and then also.

SPEAKER_03 17:37

Oh my god. Yeah, not gonna not gonna lie to you, not gonna lie to you, brother. If I hadn't seen that announcement that you were building that, that was going to be a gift for you from me at some point.

SPEAKER_01 17:51

Oh word?

SPEAKER_03 17:51

Oh man, yeah, it was going to be because that's amazing. Like there's like near me, there is a straight up Lego store that is stalking all of the video game themed Lego sets now.

SPEAKER_01 18:03

So well, before you go out and buy another video game Lego uh gift or anything for me, I do want to let you know that I also have the Legend of Zelda last battle for Ganon uh from the Ocarina of Time. So you can see that one for me.

SPEAKER_03 18:19

Son of a sailor!

SPEAKER_01 18:22

Uh I just I saw it and I had to buy I I've I've been very, very um fiscally stupid um because I I am still unemployed. Um I'm making very little from streaming, but uh I am still buying these Legos, these games and these other like things for my stream, hoping to write them off as tax expenses because it's it's a business. And all of this, all of this stuff, the my Lego cards, or sorry, my Lego sets, my Lorcana cards, my equipment, my games, all of that is played on stream. Yep. So I'm hoping that I can write it off as a business expense, and you know, this this is gonna be the year that we try that and see how that goes. Um, but uh yeah, not financial advice in any form or fashion because uh I make horrible financial decisions. Um but it was this Lego set, the Legend of Zelda one, and I also managed to get my hands on the uh starter, the conto starter set.

SPEAKER_03 19:39

Oh, I remember when you told me about that one.

SPEAKER_02 19:42

The box itself is huge. It's not surprised.

SPEAKER_01 19:49

Uh, I I saw the measurements of the box, of the model, and I was like, oh yeah, this will be fine. It'll totally it's huge. I don't know, I don't know where I'm gonna put this set, Grant. I have I have a couple of Lego sets that I've already built, and I don't know where to put them. Uh so that is just yeah, I keep on buying these Lego sets to build on stream, and I build them and I have fun. This Mario fucking set. I I was like, look, I'm gonna build this Mario set for Mario Day, March 10th, and then I'm gonna play some Super Mario World because it's my favorite Mario game. I didn't look up how long this set would take to build. So I figured, you know what? This is gonna be like three hours build tops, and then I'm gonna get to playing a game and talking about it and having a good time. I started at 7 p.m., Grant. I started at 7 p.m. to build this model, I didn't finish until 2 a.m. Oh my lord. I was so fucking exhausted the next day.

SPEAKER_03 21:00

I can imagine. I also like props to you for having the concentration to go through the entire build in one sitting. That's what that would have taken me, God, at least three or four streams with regular brain breaks. See, a neurospicy tendency there with regular brain breaks in order to power through.

SPEAKER_01 21:22

Like, what I did, I took no breaks. I was in this chair for five hours, six hours, six hours, seven hours. No, how long? Jeez, I don't even remember.

SPEAKER_03 21:37

If you start at seven, go to two. That's five. Yeah, seven hours.

SPEAKER_01 21:41

Yeah, I was in this chair for seven fucking hours building and building and building. That isn't that's another that's another neurospicy thing. I don't know if you know that. Like refusing, refusing to stop and just fixating on the task. Yeah, that's what I was doing.

SPEAKER_03 21:59

I I I on in other ways I show that too. So but this is this is yet another reason why we are the banter brothers. We could both we are both some degree of on the neurospice rack somewhere, and we're just like, yep, I can relate to that.

SPEAKER_01 22:19

So yeah, uh, I built this set, and then I took a break because that same weekend, uh I went to a wrestling pay-per-view in LA that I went to with my friends. Um but before I get into that, what have you been playing?

SPEAKER_03 22:39

To keep it short, Pokemon! Lots and lots of Pokemon. Um, because for a while on stream, and I can still go back to it, I have been revisiting uh Pokemon Infinite Fusion, uh, an insane randomized fusion-only mode, which is well, insane. Um, I did a quick revisit playthrough of the Switch 2 version of Pokemon Fire Red. Uh, because of the way I had ended up playing the game, I was able to spam my way through the Elite Four with a team of level 40s and a level 55 Dragonite. But my main game, and this will be the biggest surprise to you, has been Pokemon Pokopia. Like that uh that Animal Crossing game? Yes, the the the cozy game. The cozy game that I historically have not found any cozy game that I could get obsessed with. I I'm still analyzing how Pokemon Pocopia got there, aside from just strict brand recognition. But Pokemon Pocopia cracked the code. It cracked the code somehow. Um maybe it's the fact that there are no major time-based deadlines. Maybe it's the fact that it doesn't feel like there is a crippling economy that I have to worry about. Maybe it's the fact that when you play multiplayer, you can't destroy each other's islands and builds. Maybe it's a combination of those things that, you know, I get to comparing like, why didn't I get into Minecraft? What took me away from that? What took me away from Animal Crossing? What took me away from Stardew Valley? What took me away from Cult of the Lamb, or at least playing Stardew and Cult of the Lamb single player? Why don't I enjoy those things single player? And I think it's because, or at least this is what I've come to as of this episode's recording. I think it's just because there is a story to go through. And while it does say, this is the story, and you should do these things to make the world a better place, blah, blah, blah. This is Professor Tangrowth. Um, there there is also literally no pressure to do the things that you want to do. And if you use the online resources correctly, you don't even necessarily have to play through the story to get the things you want to get. Uh, because with your camera on object mode, with a certain dream or cloud island, excuse me, the one you put on the goggles for. I found the apparently an equivalent of an Animal Crossing treasure island in Pocopia, where you could just take a picture of anything you want to 3D print from this island, including full habitat builds, uh rare patterns, berry trees, just random decorations for your town, um, all of the fully built fossils. You can snap pictures of them, take them back to your 3D printer, and if you grind up enough, and if you grind for enough uh rare Pokemetal, you can just 3D print these items. So you don't even necessarily have to play the story to get the builds you want, but you still can. And that's how you'll unlock all the other abilities you get for your ditto and stuff. So there isn't pressure, but there is still a story. And because you can't mess with other people's islands while still sharing them, from my experience so far, you can have people come to your island, play games and stuff like that, but know that your island will not feel the effects of somebody who's just like, oh, I want to take this because I'm here. They can't do that.

SPEAKER_01 26:23

We need to talk off stream about this.

SPEAKER_03 26:25

Yes. Fair enough.

SPEAKER_01 26:30

Recording is done.

SPEAKER_02 26:30

We need to talk about this.

SPEAKER_03 26:32

Okay. But um, all of this to say, um, I've just been Poecopia obsessed. Like uh, I discovered a second area of the first map you of the map where you start, and Hitmon Lee, Hitmonchan, and Hitmon Top all now have a Hitmon shop where I can do item trades for things that I wouldn't necessarily find any other way. So it like I've been building custom homes and like assigning new habitats and planning things out, and I'm not even done with the story yet. Because I'm saving story beats for stream um because I'm also playing it on stream. Uh, but I am getting lots of new Pokemon, building new habitats, um Pallet Town is becoming a thing slowly but surely. Um but yeah, my the it's basically been Pokemon this, Pokemon that, Pokemon everywhere, as far as my gaming goes. Uh I'm going to be getting a streaming respite this week because Mega Man is coming to Sonic Racing Crossworlds, and you know what I do on my channel with a new festival.

SPEAKER_01 27:42

So uh gonna be grinding away on that Mega Man uh content.

SPEAKER_03 27:47

Uh not very much of a grind. I usually just get whatever gadget they offer and whatever horn they offer, and then I call it quits. Like off stream for the PlayStation 5, that's where the grinding happens.

SPEAKER_01 27:59

So is the PlayStation 5 version of that game your main account? That is my main account, yes. Gotcha. So what else do you unlock in that game besides a horn and a gadget?

SPEAKER_03 28:13

Uh decals, stickers, uh spending tickets to get other items, uh like stuff from the base game shop. Um, but the main draws are what are the new gadget that they release for every festival and the new horn that they release for every festival. So that's why on stream I'm like, let's get the main stuff, let's get the good stuff, and then anything else I can either come back to or not as I see fit.

SPEAKER_01 28:39

So I have other friends that um that have played this game, uh that you know, brag about their rank. Yeah. What rank do you have, Grant?

SPEAKER_03 28:53

Um, my on-stream profile is like no no no your main profile. Oh, main profile? I am at legend nine, the lowest tier rank of the lowest tier rank of the overall legend tier. Okay. Wow. But is that the final like legend tier is the highest tier you can get. It's just divided from legend nine all the way up to legend one. The top players in the world who just got a grinding cap in a recent update, by the way. Um basically, if you get to now 99,999 points, originally it was just 9,999, you'd be at Legend Rank 1. I'm not sure if the Legend Rank 1 threshold is still four nines instead of five, but I made it to Legend 9, and being in any sub tier of Legend rank allows you to play the Legend tournaments that they sometimes hold in the online modes where they pla where they have you play with certain rules and earn sub-ranks anywhere from silver bronze to I want to say emerald is the highest one. And I think I got to either gold or platinum tier in the last legends tournament. I forget which. Wow.

SPEAKER_01 30:24

So I I take it that you advance in rank by winning, then, right?

SPEAKER_03 30:30

Um, the higher the place you get, the more points you earn. Like any, and like depending on where you're at, sub rank wise, you either gain fewer points or maybe lose at most like four points overall. Like, even when I've gotten dead last, 12th place, couldn't even cross over the finish line before the game ended. Um, I've never lost more than like seven points, I think.

SPEAKER_01 30:55

The fact that you're saying that you, of all people, right? The you are the guy uh that all the little Mario Kart players want to be. They look up to you and see you wearing the crown and be like, I want to be that guy.

SPEAKER_03 31:13

Oh god. That in the advent with the advent of online gaming, that is so not me anymore. That is so not me anymore. They want to be people with usernames that I cannot properly say just because I either don't know them or don't know how to pronounce them. Like the ones with 9,999 points or five nines worth of points now, uh, they are the ones with the crowns that the little ones want to aspire to be. I just want to be a person who's like, hey, I'm good at the game. I know what to do. But I also understand that this game is more RNG riddle than finding a shiny Pokemon. So as long as I don't lose any points, I'll consider it a win.

SPEAKER_01 31:56

Shout out to our homie Oshigod, who is a shiny hunting a Lugia and is now on their 70. What is it? I think they're on their 76th hour.

SPEAKER_03 32:06

I heard something like they were in like the 80-something hours now, way above odds. Yeah, they're way above odds.

SPEAKER_01 32:13

Shout out to that homie right there. Hopefully, you get that Lugia soon.

SPEAKER_03 32:16

May you get your pink shiny sea god before too much longer. May RNGus ever be in your favor, Oshagod. RN Jesus. I was trying to make an RNGesus Arceus joke because Arceus is the god of all Pokemon.

SPEAKER_01 32:35

Uh and because I'm not a Pokemon fan, that one flew right over my head.

SPEAKER_03 32:40

A lot of my jokes are the flying type, they fly over people's heads. Anyway.

SPEAKER_01 32:48

Oh my god. So uh before before we get more sidetracked into Pokemon, because Pokemon is what has taken up your life. Uh let's move on to our topic. Do you have a guess as to what our topic is going to be about?

SPEAKER_03 33:03

Well, uh, considering the intro, um, considering the voice you put on, I'm I've been wrestling with a few ideas about what it could be. And have you now? I have. And I think it's just some sort of I I have a feeling you're gonna, you know, you'll be the lead point on this one like I was with the last episode we recorded. Go check that out if you somehow don't get sick of my voice yet. Um I think it's going to be something wrestling related, but I'm not sure which direction you are going to um pile drive it off the ropes.

SPEAKER_01 33:44

Ooh, I I think I think you're correct. This is a topic that I am the most knowledgeable on between us. Um, we are going to be talking about pro wrestling, the best soap opera that you could watch on TV. Um, I love that framing device.

SPEAKER_03 34:03

Please continue.

SPEAKER_01 34:07

I say this because wrestling, pro wrestling, has evolved since the days of your this huge, and I'm I'm like talking years, like 30, 40 plus years, and rest pro wrestling goes back to further beyond uh what I grew up with. Because full disclaimer, I am not a pro when it comes to talking about pro wrestling, I am merely a fan, uh, much like Grant was during the Kingdom Hearts discussion. Uh I am just a fan that is recalling things from my past and trying to frame them uh in ways to make you, the viewer, listener, maybe interested in looking at this. So let's start at the beginning of what I recall, right? So back in the day, which was a Wednesday, by the way, uh there was the beginning of pro wrestling, uh, which started in um, I want to say in sur uh circuses. They were circus acts where people would, you know, uh set up a fighter and they would be prize fighters. They would say, you know, hurry, hurry, hurry, come down, and anyone in the crowd can fight this guy and make money or whatever. Uh, and what would what would be usually the case is they would have a plant in the audience that would, you know, be big, strong, tough looking, and then that would lose to the person, uh, making it believable in how they lost to basically con and swindle uh uh the the viewers. And that's why a lot of those old timey kind of wrestling uh corporations uh and and such companies uh are called carnies because it started in that kind of uh atmosphere, that kind of environment, right? So that is way beyond uh what I grew up with. I grew up with the WWF, the World Wrestling Federation, and its competitor, uh WCW, World Championship Wrestling.

SPEAKER_03 36:27

I remember those names.

SPEAKER_01 36:29

I got into pro wrestling when I was, I want to say maybe uh eight, starting with, you know, like I said, the World Wrestling Federation, now known as the WWE, or quite simply the E. Um, uh it's known as the E. Amongst amongst some of the IWC, which is the internet wrestling community. Um yeah. So uh this I'm gonna let you know right off the bat. This I'm gonna try very hard not to get into a tribalism spat between wrestling promotions and brands. I will fully admit that I do not watch the WWE based on their business practices and based on my moral standards. Gotcha. Okay. Okay. That being said, uh, I am a fan of NJPW, which is New Japan Pro Wrestling, which is centered in Japan. I am a fan of Stardom, which is a uh Joshi, um, which is an all-female company of pro wrestling. Uh, I am also a fan of CMLL, El Consejo Mundial de Lucha Libre, which is set in Mexico. Uh, and I am also a fan of AEW, which is all elite wrestling, which is That's the one I've seen with you when I've been down to visit sometimes, huh? Yes, yes, it is. So these companies that I've mentioned are the breadth of what I currently watch out in the wrestling sphere. But back in the day when I was a uh the miniest of donuts myself, uh I was a big fan of the WWF, the World Wrestling Federation. Um, they had, you know, the superstars like Hulk Hogan, Ultimate Warrior, Razor Ramon, Shawn Michaels, Brett the Hitman Hart, um, you know, uh Yoko Zuna, uh, all of these different the Undertaker. Like I could I could mention all of the pro wrestling names uh that I know off oh that's you know what I just thought of something. Uh but I will save it for the end because it'll be silly. Uh so oh good.

SPEAKER_03 38:49

Spoiler free. Keep it spoiler-free. Oh good. Keep it spoiler-free.

SPEAKER_01 38:54

So um, that being said, I've been around for a while watching pro wrestling. I have been watching it since I was eight, into my teens, and then dropped off when I went into college, uh, and then got back on to it after uh I want to say WrestleMania, I want to say 30, maybe 29. I'm not, I'm not sure. I don't remember. Uh all I remember is that the match that brought me back uh to the WWE was John Cena versus The Rock.

SPEAKER_03 39:34

Oh my, that would be an iconic match to come back to.

SPEAKER_01 39:38

It was it was an iconic match, but I missed most of the ruthless uh and I would say most I would say all of the ruthless aggression era because when you look at pro wrestling from the WWF's perspective, you look at it from different eras. You have uh the era that I was most involved in was the um the Monday night wars and the attitude era. Those were the eras that uh I was most stuck glued to television, not wanting to miss any episodes of any uh you know Monday night programming. But uh there have been other promotions since then that have their own eras uh that I am not super familiar with. But what is pro wrestling? Pro wrestling is a thing that has been uh shunned, you know, when I was growing up. People would always come in to a discussion and be like, oh, you watch that pro wrestling shit, don't you know it's fake? Right?

SPEAKER_03 40:47

You've heard that, right? I I've heard that certainly was a common thing back in the ye oldy decade of the 1990s.

SPEAKER_01 40:54

And it still comes up nowadays, like a lot of people, yeah, it still does. Like everyone, like if you say, Oh yeah, I watch pro wrestling, oh, that isn't that fake, you know, like people uh and I say people, pure, uh pure sports enthusiasts, uh, that watch, you know, NBA, uh, NFL, MMA or whatever, boxing, they always look at pro wrestling as a bastardization of sports, right? Because it's pro wrestling. Wrestling, right? Wrestling is an Olympic sport, it is a genuine sport. Uh, but pro wrestling is seen as uh fake, and because it's fake, it's not worth watching, right? A lot of people say, oh, it's fake, and then they move on. There's a lot more to pro wrestling. And for you that are watching or listening, I challenge you to think about it this way, right? This is my uh TED talk on why you should watch pro wrestling or at least give it a shot, right?

SPEAKER_03 42:06

A donut dissection, if you will.

SPEAKER_01 42:09

Yes, yes, a uh a donut glazing of the professional wrestling sport. So professional wrestling has a baby face and a heel, and they fight in a ring, and this fight, and I use quotation words because it is staged to look like a fight, both both pro wrestlers and referee in the ring know who's going to win the match. And they may call audibles depending on if somebody is injured during the match, or depending on crowd reaction, uh, which is not usually the case because the booker, who is the person that is in charge of writing who wins and the storylines and who loses and all that other stuff, they usually have made the call long in advance. And it is up to the performers uh or producers of each match to come up with how to make the match entertaining, right? And you have different schools of thought on you know what makes a match entertaining. If you're a fan of the Japanese style pro wrestling, it's called strong style. And the reason it's called strong style is because in pro wrestling in America, your job is to put on a match that is entertaining, that tells a story, uh but it doesn't ultimately hurt your opponent. Right. Right? You're not hitting your opponent to hurt them. In Japanese pro wrestling, you're telling a story. Uh you're You are uh you know putting on this match, um, you're also not trying to hurt your opponent, but but you are leaning in a bit more into those hits at times. Like have you seen, have you seen when uh in pro wrestling, uh, which I know you've seen some with me, uh either live or on TV when you come visit, uh, when guys just straight up line each other up and then slap the shit out of each other in the chest. Yeah. Right? So these things where uh you're slapping an opponent in the chest is uh in American pro wrestling, it's a couple of slaps to the chest and then you move on, right? To the next spot, which is the next thing on the action card that you have set for the match. But in Japanese uh style pro wrestling, uh they call it pro wrestling or strong style, where it's more pure, right? These guys slap each other so hard and for so long that they are their chest is bleeding and it looks like hamburger meat. Oof. They do it as a show of my fighting spirit is stronger than yours, and I'm gonna take your hits as long as you can dish them out, and you are not gonna, you're gonna fall before I do. Right? Wow. These these matches, right? Uh, these uh strikes, uh is one of those things where you either are a fan of it because you're like, yes, this is the fighting spirit. This guy's not giving up. This is those moments in life when you get knocked down seven times, but you get back up eight times. This is that moment where you you grit your teeth and you take the hit and you keep on moving forward and you beat adversity. That's what this is really uh a picture of. It's a picture of the human struggle against everything that's out in your in your way, right? Your job, uh, life situations, um, you know, money issues, whatever. All of this is perfectly summarized in this beatdown that an opponent is giving another opponent, where you are almost surviving out of spite. Against all odds, you are getting beat down, but you keep on going. That's what that that struggle symbolizes to me. And every time I see it, I just get like pumped up because it's that internal human struggle that you have. To struggle is life. Like, you have a lot of different perspectives uh when it comes to life and what a good life is, and you know what makes life life. You know, uh yeah, there's there's uh song lyrics like I want something new to die for to make it beautiful to live. That's Queens of the Stone Age. It's a song quote that lives with me, uh, lives rent-free in my head. But without struggle, there can be no advancement. Yeah. Right? You're right. If if everything comes to you on a silver platter, that's that doesn't make you an amazing person. Right. There has to be some kind of struggle, and that's that's what that uh that chop symbolizes, where these guys are just going at it until their chests are purple and bloody uh against each other. That is strong style, right, versus the American style, where it's more focused on the telling of a story in the ring, right? Um I'll give you an example. So long ago, which was not even that long ago, maybe 15-20 years, um, there was a match between Shawn Michaels, uh, the heartbreak kid, um, and another wrestler named Rick Flair. I believe it was a retirement match, I think. I'm not sure. The memory of it is hazy to me, but it was a match of an old man who was fighting a younger man, right? This this struggle of you know, an old man not giving in to their fate, not giving in to the fact that they're old and their body is tired and needs to needs to stop. A lot of a lot of pro wrestlers, uh, in the past at least, uh have seen stardom, have bitten off that that piece of stardom, and have uh wanted to hang on to it for dear life and savor its flavor as long as they can, and have gone to gotten to the point where their bodies can't keep up, but they still try, they still try to do it, even though their body has long ago given up uh given up the goat. Like, or ghost. I I think that's a that's the term.

SPEAKER_03 49:30

Either way, I get what you mean. Yeah. Their minds are basically saying I gotta keep going when their bodies are begging had been begging them to stop for uh a long before they realized it.

SPEAKER_01 49:43

Yeah, and you see it all the time. Um, but this wrestler, Rick Flair, uh, who you know, even back then, I think was in his 50s, like maybe early 60s, and is now in you know their 70s or 80s, probably probably 80s, honestly. Um, they they are still living off of the name that they built for themselves back in the day. They have even tried to get back in the ring and do things, but they are a shadow of their former self. And when you see that, like at least for me, you know, I just I I feel pity. Like it's it's one of those things where you see the condition, you see the condition of of time and its its toll on a human body, every experience that their body has racked up, every bump that they take. A bump in pro wrestling is whenever they fall on the ground, right? Whether that's through a slam or just them falling on the ground. Uh, because in pro wrestling, you learn, right? When you're learning how to be a pro wrestler, you go to a school to learn how to do those things, how to fall properly, how to make a move look believable. Because, like I said, you want to make this fake match look real. You want to make it look so that when people watch it, they are concerned about what these wrestlers are doing in this match.

SPEAKER_03 51:24

If I may jump in real quick, because a lot of these things sound like uh for those who are more uh to use your soap opera analogy, for those who are more in tune and uh following of like traditional soap operas, you have to go through an acting school, an acting program in order to in order to get a shot to be cast in those things, where there will be slaps, there will be other forms of fighting, where you have to uh essentially it's stage combat training, where you have to be able to sell the move on a camera or on in terms of a wrestling ring, a multi-directional stage.

SPEAKER_00 52:04

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 52:05

So while yes, it is called fake, I hate to break it to you, but so is pretty much every acting thing you've seen ever. It's called acting, children. So, like it if you're one of those who's like, oh, it's fake, well then so is every TV show you've ever loved. Hate to spoil it for you. Um, just get over that. But having to sell a move just seems like in a way to more generalize it, stage combat training, having to do it for just a multi-directional stage.

SPEAKER_01 52:36

Yes, because uh, and this is this is uh different from um from being uh a stunt uh a stunt double, right? Right. Because in in the movie industry, you have stunt doubles, uh, you have uh people that have you know worked out, toned their body for these kind of things to learn how to fall properly so that they don't hurt themselves, to learn how to you know take punches, stage combat, like you said, um, all of these stunt coordinators that are out there, uh actors that do their own stunts, you know, all of these things are things that occur in movies and television and all of that. But in pro wrestling, you go to a school so that you could learn all of these different things because, like you said, they're not just acting in front of a crowd facing one direction, it's a multi-directional uh audience of where the audience is on all sides of you. Um, so you have to learn how to make all of that stuff look good. Um, but going back to my example of you know the toll that time takes on these wrestlers' bodies, yeah, yeah, yeah. After a time it catches up to you, you know, and people that are still wrestling, uh doing the pro wrestling thing in their you know 50s slash 60s is kind of sad to see because you remember the memories of when they won their first championship or you know had a very amazing rivalry with another pro wrestler of theirs, and you see the toll that it's taken on their body, you see them moving slower, you see them, you know, not uh performing how they used to, and it's it's it's very saddening to me. But it is also it is also beautiful in the way that you are you come to see the you know the the life that they've lived, yeah, and you see that all of us are living life, and all of us will eventually reach the point where we are old and we are not doing the things that we used to be able to do, and our bodies will need to stop, and we'll need to take care of them in some in in whatever way is needed, exactly. But you see these performers uh build up their their body and train it, even though their body is screaming at them to stop, they are persevering, they are pushing through to uh to get themselves ready to do these things uh in the ring and perform again one final time or whatever, even though Ric Flair has had many one final time matches. Um because, you know, like I said, once you get bit by that uh that show uh that show bug, you you try to hold on and keep on going. And there have been so many, you know, sad stories of uh pro wrestlers that have you know turned to drugs to numb the pain, uh, and all of that other stuff. Uh, there was a beautiful movie that um you should definitely watch called The Wrestler that had Mickey Rourke in it. It was a fantastic movie. Uh Mickey Rourke, Marissa Tomei. Um it had a lot of pro-wrestlers, actual pro wrestlers in it. Uh, and it was kind of like a behind-the-curtain look at one of those aging um pro-wrestling stars. It's a very good movie that uh I totally cried at because it it reminded me of just the fragility of you know the human condition. Um and looking at looking at that match again, the Shawn Michaels versus the Ric Flair match, uh uh Shawn Michaels really looked up to Ric Flair. Like Ric Flair was a hero because he was wrestling when Shawn Michaels was you know still a kid and was looking up, and he had to fight him. And in this match, you saw that struggle of like a a boy meeting his hero and having to put him down. Like there is this famous moment in that where you know Ric Flair, you know, is beaten, bloodied, just like he's you know acting exhausted, he's putting up his fists like, come on, I could still go, you know, and Shawn Michaels looks at him and the camera pans to him, right? Because this is a whole ass production. Pro wrestling is a whole ass production. They have these moments planned out, they have uh a lot of it is on the fly stuff because stuff happens spontaneously sometimes that you have to be ready for, you know? Yeah. And this moment that has been burned into my memory, and I'm sure a lot of other pro wrestling fans' memories uh is the I love you, I'm sorry. Like you see, the camera pans to Ric Flair, who is like beaten and bloody and has his dukes up and is like dizzy, you know, doing his best, like I'm dizzy Street Fighter, you know, meme going. Yeah. And the camera pans over to Shawn Michaels, who looks at him with a sincere look of doubt and sadness on his face as he says the words uh I'm sorry, but I love you. And he just gives him his his finishing move, which is the sweet chin music, which is basically him super kicking the guy and the chin to knock him out, right? And he puts him down, he pins him, and the match is over. And it's it's one of those moments where you know uh it's completely captivated the audience. I mean, looking at your face right now, I'm describing this moment to you, and I can see you reacting to the story. Like, yeah, you you would have to see the match to really, I guess, feel what exactly is going on between them. Usually they hype up these matches by giving you a video package, giving you a refresher of what what the story is between these two people before they go on in their fight, and then their fight happens, and that's where that's where the match kind of builds up to the crescendo and then the climax of the match to see how it finishes, right? These these matches, these performances, because wrestling is not fake, it is predetermined because everyone knows who's gonna win. The battles that these performers go through, the strain that it puts on their body is real. There have been countless cases of concussions that have put wrestlers on the shelf indefinitely, people that have broken bones, uh broken their backs, been paralyzed uh because of a move that went wrong, or something of that nature. Like these things are not fake. And when somebody says, Oh, yeah, you know wrestling's fake, right? It grinds my gears as it does any other fan of professional wrestling, because of course we know that it's not real. We know that these people have practiced these moves uh before the doors open to the show. We know that these people have gone over what they're gonna say on camera. We know that these people have, you know, uh are friends in real life, even though they're bitter enemies on screen. We know this, but it's the suspension of disbelief that we hold to be true when we watch it live in the same stadium or we watch it on television.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:57

It's we know this. It is it is a show. That's exactly it. It it it's a show, and that's why I said that's why I made the crack I did earlier. Like, if this is a show and it can be called fake, literally any other show can be called fake for literally the same reasons. But for those who are fans of wrestling, or for those like me who like I enjoyed the matches that I've seen with you, whether it be on TV or the one we went to in person a very long time ago, like, sure, there are just some things that I may not get, and I'd have to ask for clear, clear, clearing up from, and you did when we went to the show in person or any time I've asked. But it's just a matter of, do you like the show they're putting on? Can you see that it's a show? Can you can you vibe with the story of it, or at least try to vibe with the story? And even if you can't vibe with the story, are you coming in for are you coming into it liking the flashy moves? Can you vibe with the flashy moves? Like flash moves. There are there are there are ways to get into it and to like just like with any sort of performative medium, there are ways to get into it that can make you a fan or a casual enjoyer, even if the consensus is, oh, it's not real. Because again, performing, yes, it comes from a place of real authenticity when it comes to the performer, but there are scripted elements to every performance. Like taking it out of wrestling for just a second, even those like unscripted comedies that we see on TV all the time, there are elements of scripting to them. There are plot lines. You get from point A to point B because character does a certain thing. Like I guess I just don't understand, and this is more from a casual enjoyer standpoint who knows the acting side just in general, like for voice acting as my primary vocation. I don't understand why I don't understand why the stigma is still there that it's fake, especially if you understand that wrestling is a performance, there is a story to be told, there is work behind it. Again, maybe you're just in it for the flashy moves and for the anime style rivalries between two separate wrestlers, depending on the federation or the corporation that's putting the thing on.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:29

So I have I have an idea as to why it is. Please. Um, because uh in in school, uh I learned about uh class uh the class system of of art, right? When you say, hey, do you want to come to an art exhibit with me? Right, that immediately brings to mind, oh, we're gonna go see sculptures, we're gonna go see, you know, uh paintings, uh murals, um or something of that nature, right? When somebody references art, right? Art is subjective, art can take many different forms. And when you talk about like, oh, hey, I'm gonna go to the opera, that is considered by society a high art. Yeah, right, because it's true, people who are uh extremely well educated and know of what art is that art is beauty, uh, they will see that as a high form of art. Whereas professional wrestling, which is also an art because of all of the training that has to go into making these moves look not only believable, but brutal and also beautiful. There is a lot of differences in terms of pro wrestling where you see things, for example. Uh I talked about New Japan pro wrestling and their uh puro uh wresto style, their strong style. Uh, I've talked about the American style, which focuses more on you know heavy story uh and then you have the uh the Mexican uh style of lucha libre, right? Which has the same kind of you know thing which all pro wrestling does usually, which is uh a technical, which is uh translates into a technical, right? This is their phrase for good guys or baby faces, as we use here. In the States, uh, and then a heel or a rudo, uh, which is basically a rude boy, basically, um, which are the the heels, right? They're those are the bad guys. In that style, it is much more acrobatic focused and much more focused on applying submission moves. These submission moves uh contort a body or a limb in such a way that looks extremely painful, but is also masterfully applied so that it looks almost artistic in how a body is contorted to look uh in a shape. And yeah, they're making it look beautiful, they're making it look believable, and they're making it look brutal. The it's known as Yahweh technique, like a key technique, right? Because you would need a key to unlock the move that was placed on the other individual, right?

SPEAKER_03 1:07:02

Yeah, and that's what uh either and that's what tapping out would be, tapping out's the key there, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:07:08

Yes, that is exactly it, because you are forcing an opponent to submit. And even there is a story. So in the strong style, I mentioned the fighting spirit, the tenacity of getting chopped in the chest and taking it and taking it. Yep. Where in lucha libre, the submission, right? You being put into a submission where your body is being contorted and put into a position that it's not used to be putting in uh being put into, right? And you fighting, trying to struggle and get out of it, and either giving in and giving up, or reaching for the rope and finding a way out of it, or even reversing the move and doing something else to your opponent, those are high key moments. Um, and what I mean by high key is I mean they are uh they are what makes that kind of wrestling entertaining. They are the key to providing entertainment, that struggle is real, but if you manage to reverse an opponent's move on them and turn it into something different, fucking amazing. Chef's kiss, it makes it so entertaining uh to see a wrestler struggle or for them to figure out a way to get out of a hold and to reverse it on their opponent.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:35

Man, like yeah, it is it is it it is impressive what it's done.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:41

Those two wrestlers, like Brett the Hitman Hart is still one of my favorite pro wrestlers, but one that is really, really uh made me like feel the same way about technical wrestling is a pro wrestler called Zach Saber Jr., who is a British wrestler who is uh mostly wrestling uh in New Japan pro wrestling. Um, but he has a substantial knowledge on how to contort a body and maneuver it to make his opponent tap out uh to submit. And all of the moves that the guy does look fucking brutal. Like the thing that he does that makes it even even worse, like for his opponent, but makes it even more entertaining, is that he doesn't just keep the same move on an opponent, he switches out of that move into something more gruesome looking every five seconds. What almost like almost like clockwork. He like stays in a hold for like five to ten seconds, and then when he doesn't get the result that he wants, which is the wrestler to tap out, he changes positions exactly, but he usually still keeps the same hold on, but is now contorting a different limb. Oh, and it looks fucking brutal. The point of it is this wrestling has been seen as a low art, seen because it is a cheaper art to go see than it is to get tickets to the opera. Tickets to the opera, you know, are super expensive. Um, and you know, you wear you wear a tuxedo and you know, go to a fancy dinner before or after the show. It it is considered high class by society, by the haves versus the haves not. Right? Pro wrestling started as a very uh cheap alternative for those people, the working class that could go be entertained, right? This would be a form of entertainment for the low class. Nowadays, pro wrestling tickets are really expensive uh for certain companies. Um, not going to mention things because I, like I said, I don't want to devolve into tribalism here. Um but these these ticket prices for shows are ridiculous. Uh because, like I said, I went to a pro wrestling event with my friends recently for AEW. The tickets that we got were, I want to say $45 a seat. Wow. But they were they were in the nosebleed section where we could see the action, but it was not you know completely visible. But they had screens so that you could see the action that was being televised. So it wasn't that bad of a seat. But there at the venue, there was a light that was shining directly in our section, like one of those super bright ass lights.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:01

Oh no.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:03

And there were also some loud ass children behind us that were age ranges five to like 13 or whatever, who were screaming, kicking chairs, and just being general nuisances. And I'm I have a kid, I know what it's like to have a kid, but look, kids that age that don't know how to act in a public space, they should not be brought to an event like that because personally doesn't seem like the good event for them. It's it's a super loud event because there's explosions and pyro. There's people there that are chanting things that may not agree with what you raised your children to listen to, such as curse words and other things of that nature. Um, there are you know people that are drinking beer and could do, you know, bad things. I've been to pro wrestling events where a fan got inebriated and started a fight with another fan. And when security came to take them out, there was a kid that was coming back to their seat and they saw their father being taken out by security, and the poor kid was screaming, that's my dad. And it's like, okay, so this doesn't help my cause for telling you to go watch a pro wrestling event, right? But I have been to multiple wrestling events where the fans are quite pleasant, where everyone's willing to chat and joke and listen. But just like any other place in the world, there's always gonna be a few assholes out there.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:56

Yep, a few great A dingle hoppers that just want to ruin everything for everyone.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:02

I would highly recommend that you give Pro Wrestling a shot because there's a lot of entertainment there for anyone. They have high-flying spots, they have gruesome looking moves uh to submit opponents, they have uh even death style matches, because over the the time frame of pro wrestling, there have always been gimmick matches when a standard uh you know one fall match, which is a match between two opponents that is uh a pinfall match or submission. So you can win in either a one, two, three count or a submission move, right? Those are the standard matches that you know every promotion has, but then you have other matches uh that are uh different, right? You have tag team matches, you have tornado tag team matches, um you have uh death matches, you have barbed wire, uh you know, explosion death matches, you have hardcore matches, uh, you have Viagra on a pole matches, you have custody battle matches, you have ladder matches, shoots and ladder matches. Uh it so I feel like some of these names you aren't actually making up. I'm sorry to chime in. You would think that, but I can I can tell you for sure that some of these matches actually occurred. Chutes and ladders matches? Viagra on a pole. So the shoots and ladders match didn't happen. That one I did throw in there for fun zero.

unknown 1:15:50

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:54

But the Viagra on a pole actually happened.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:57

It did.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:59

Oh my god. That sounds less like a wrestling match type and more like a move you'd find in a Wiiho bar. Good grief.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:12

So going back to pro wrestling, right? Let's let's put what I said on hold about watching pro wrestling, because I think we need to address the Viagra on a poll in the room. Um so back back in the day when I was watching wrestling, which was mostly the attitude era and you know the golden era as well. Not the golden, the silver age, I would say, um, which was the 80s. Um, you had the attitude era, which is where you had WWF versus WCW in the Monday Night Wars. Got it. Right now, pro wrestling has such a rich history in terms of where it came from and where it's been and where it's going, that I cannot talk about everything in detail in the time frame that we have. But I do want to touch on some of the moments that shaped me as a pro wrestling fan, which is the attitude era, which was when uh I was in middle school and everyone started doing the suck it chants, right? Kids would cross their arms, they would chop their crouches and say suck it, right? That was the era of Stone Cold Steve Austin, D Generation X, Val Venus, uh, who was a porn star that had turned wrestler and who had the choppy choppy pee pee incident. Um yes, yes, I know, I know. This was the era that uh was uh centered mostly around teenagers and 20-somethings to get them to talk about the product uh and you know just make it more mainstream. Uh because the WWF did do something uh to help the the view that wrestling was you know not something mainstream. They introduced WrestleMania, they introduced uh having Hollywood stars, music artists, uh other sports stars join their uh their show and in some capacity, whether it be Mr. T wrestling alongside Hulk Hogan, or whether it be Cyndy Lauper uh bringing in um uh Captain Lu Albano, or whether it be Captain Lu Albano himself playing Mario in the Super Mario Brothers Super Show. Um there's my God. All of this, right, was brought about because the WWF, which was which was what it was then called, brought media attention to wrestling, and it has only just exploded since then. Hell, even at the event that I was at, Wayne Brady was in the audience in the match. Uh uh not they weren't involved in the match, but they got involved in a match. But they were sitting wow uh, yeah, I know Wayne Brady had to choke a bitch. Um I totally thought that was gonna happen, but he didn't end up choking anybody. But it should have happened. That that was a missed opportunity, missed opportunity, but regardless, um these things, right, have brought mainstream attention to pro wrestling, but the attitude era is where you had all of these crazy things start happening, where you had a uh porn star who turned to pro wrestling and who was partnering up with a pimp called the the Godfather. Oh my god. Yeah, bro. It was all about tits and ass back in the day. Back in the day, pro wrestling for women was non-existent, it was all bra and panty matches. These women performers were doing their best to put on matches, but all that it evolved devolved into was bra and panty matches, um fucking, you know, just TNA all over the place, and it the wrestling got lost. But nowadays we have you know a lot more women performers who are very good in the ring and who who can do great things in the ring, and women's pro wrestling is actually a respectable thing, it's not about you know, uh, oh man, this this performer has got uh a rack on them or has got such a great ass. It's it's not like, oh, we're gonna, you know, the promotion isn't about that anymore. It's about them beating the shit out of each other and proving that they're just as hardcore as the guys, right? Women's wrestling has evolved greatly and made such huge leaps and bounds forward from where it was when I started watching. And you have companies uh like, you know, again, because they were the only American company for a while, the WWE that brought focus to women. But you also had the conception of AEW, all elite wrestling, which has now been in production for I want to say six, seven years almost. Uh no, like six years now, actually, where they have been around for that long as the little, you know, t-shirt company that turned into a pro wrestling company, which is ridiculous, first of all. Um, but they are the main competitor to the WWE, and they have been a breath of fresh air for a lot of pro wrestling fans that have wanted something different than the WWE for years now. And now that there is finally another competitor on the market, the pro wrestlers themselves have more of a uh leverage point when it comes to discussing contract and how much they make, right? Um, yeah, it has come to a lot more variety in the market and what can be offered for these pro wrestlers uh who still are not unionized and should you know figure out a way to do that, but they're all independent contractors. And when a pro wrestler by the name of Jesse the Body Ventura, who you may have heard of because they were also a uh I want to say governor for one of the M states, I want to say Minnesota, but I could be wrong. Um, but they tried to unionize the locker room in the WWF back in the day, but Hulk Hogan ratted them out to Vince and caused that union to fall through.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:19

So Hulk Hogan's a union buster.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:22

Hulk Hogan, Hulk Hogan is a very and here's the thing. Hulk Hogan did a lot for pro wrestling as a sport, brought a lot of mainstream eyes to it. The character Hulk Hogan will be remembered as uh someone who did a lot of good and brought a lot of eyes to the product, but the person portraying Hulk Hogan, Terry Boleya or Boleya, or whatever however you fucking pronounce his name, is a piece of shit, and you can quote me on that. Um and there's a lot of other things, you know, and like I said, don't want it to devolve into any tribalism. Uh, because I can definitely talk about, you know, different pro wrestlers, their stances, different pro wrestling companies and their stances and everything. But this the point of this talk isn't about that. The point of this talk is to get you, the viewer, the listener, to give it a shot. Whichever kind of pro wrestling is out there in the world, there now is alternatives to the main brand that you can easily access because it's on cable television. I would recommend that you watch what you want to watch and like what you want to like and support whoever you want to support, whatever company you want to support. But I also want to add this caveat to it. The companies that currently exist on the market, right? The main ones, the American ones, which is uh AEW uh and the WWE, those are the two main brands that are out there. But that doesn't mean that you have to just watch those brands because there are other smaller brands as well. There's TNA, which is Total Nonstop Action, there is uh NWA, which is the National Wrestling Alliance, there is GCW, um, which I have no idea what it stands for. Forgive me, I'm just not a huge fan of it. But there are also a lot of independent wrestling shows that could be put on near you by various smaller promotions. You don't have to watch a big name brand uh of pro wrestling to be entertained. You can go to a smaller uh independent or indie brand of wrestling. A lot of indie shows, at least uh here in the San Diego market, will be done at breweries. And they'll set up a wrestling ring where you can just come in and for $10, $15, $5, whatever, you can pay to watch a pro wrestling show. These guys are not going to be the uh pro wrestling that are signed to the major promotions, but they're gonna be people who have trained to do this stuff, and you never know. They could be up-and-comers that are looking to make the jump into one of those main promotions, one of those main brands. And you could be seeing an early Brett the Hitman Hart or an early Shawn Michaels. You could say, Hey, I remember seeing that guy when he was a nobody. And plus, by supporting these independent brands, you show that wrestling does matter, that wrestling is not only a form of entertainment, but also a form of art because that's what it is. When you take a look at everything that comprises pro wrestling, which is writing of storylines that is very close to um to soap operas, right? Back in the day, they were really close to soap operas. Now they're more focused around grounded in reality um and deeper storylines. Uh, you have uh people that have trained their bodies to look a certain way and to act a certain way when they take bumps. You have people that react, right? That have that are acting basically. In front of a huge audience, giving reactions or uh doing promos in front of an audience, you have all of these things that kind of weave together to make pro wrestling what it is today, which is a form of art that is entertaining, that is engaging, that is uh what's that word I'm looking for? Uh that is almost uh you know welcomes your participation, right? When you're in an audience at a pro wrestling match, you clap, you cheer, you boo, you start chants. Uh that's one of the great things about the pro wrestling sphere when you are at a live show, is whichever size crowd that you're in, whether you're in a, like I said, a brewery or you're at a stadium, when one person starts a chant, it can reverberate throughout the entire stadium. And you have moments like you had on live television when two pro wrestlers were about to go at it, a fuck ice chant started in the audience, and this was shortly after uh the events in um uh was it Minneapolis, Minnesota? I always get those two mixed up. Uh well when Ice, you know, killed uh Nicole Good and um Yeah, Alex Predi, I believe. Yeah, you have social commentary that goes on in these matches, maybe not by the promotion itself, but by the crowd that goes to watch them. These moments these moments are happening in a pro-wrestling show. And if that happens at a pro-wrestling show, what do you think happens with the rest of the country when something that is considered low art has the crowd hijacking the performance that's going on in the ring by chanting something like this? I'm not saying it could start a revolution or anything, I'm just saying that it's very interesting to see social commentary being made by not only the promotion slightly because they don't want to step on any toes, but by the audience of said promotion. And the fact that the promotion isn't silencing the audience, which is something that other promotions would do. So yeah, give pro wrestling a shot. You will not only be entertained, but you might walk away with a new friend, whether you like it or not.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:22

As as someone who I've only ever been in person to the one we went to Lucha Underground, right? We did, Lucha Underground, yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:33

It was a promotion that was not a promotion, it was more of a TV show. It was it was something completely different than what was being put on at the time, but it had a lot of independent wrestlers who actually now work for either the WWE or uh AEW or another overseas uh company, right? That was a weird amalgamation of television, like drama. Like earlier I said that it was a soap opera. This wrestling promotion was leaning very heavily into the drama side of things to the point where they created like I want to say vignettes, storyline vignettes, that were more like a TV show than it was an actual prom a promo. Because in pro wrestling, you have something that's called a promo, where a performer, right, the wrestler, usually gets in front of a camera and talks about how they're gonna beat up their opponent or what they did in the ring last week, that it was just the beginning, or some other, you know, kind of shit like that to build up their character, to build up the hype for their match. But Lucha Underground did it so that they could tell an overarching story of the promotion. It was um not promo, not uh not a promo in the sense where a performer would come out and talk shit to their opponent, it would be two performers who uh were forming an uneasy alliance or something of that nature, but it was done in a dramatic, uh like scripted, heavily scripted kind of way. But the match would be the match and would tie into those things later. It was a very interesting uh show that I really enjoyed because it was so heavily mixed with live television, uh not live television, but um like that kind of obvious storytelling elements in there, which did the job of the promo but kept the storytelling aspect of it alive, thus likening it more to the soap opera that you liken that you said wrestling was an analog of, if I'm saying that right.

SPEAKER_03 1:33:55

Um the reason I brought up Lucha Underground in particular as someone who had never been to a wrestling match before, my older brother, the blood brother, ironically being one of those like five to thirteen-year-olds who had been brought to a wrestling match once, he went with my dad back in the back, I think it would be the attitude era. Yeah, he went with my dad in the attitude era, and I was given the opportunity to go, but as a little guy, and even still to this day, I'm just like, I don't like the idea of the physical violence. I didn't know it was scripted or like it was a show. Like I thought it was, you know, m another contact sport where people seriously just hurt themselves for our amusement, which is part of the reason why I didn't like traditional sports either. Um or more traditional sports, I guess. Um but as someone who had never been to a live wrestling event, I went with you, a few others we knew, and I will add to your uh announcement, um uh donut glazing that if you are a newbie going to a wrestling match, go with someone who knows it that you trust.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:35:16

Because that that is the best way to just generally take a no thank you experience for anything. But someone who knows it, someone you trust, someone can actually tell you, hey, this is a chat they're gonna start, this is a heads up, this is what you say, et cetera, et cetera, you'll feel like you're a part of the crowd while also being able to experience it for the first time in an unjudging way. And that's because I had that experience with you, I can now look at it as a very fond memory. And if something like a Lucha Underground were to happen again, I and you know, I were to get an invite among your wrestling fan friends, if I had the slot in my schedule, I would go because it was fun, and I have I had the fortune of being brought in with someone who was willing to actually bring me in, like, and not just leave me like floundering. Yeah. So if you do, if you are a newbie and you want to go for a no thank you experience with a wrestling thing, I add to donuts glazing, sprinkle that on by going with someone you trust who will not leave you floundering. That's excellent point. That way you'll get the fullest experience with the least possible amount of feeling like you're out of your element. And maybe you'll find that you aren't out of your element after all.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:46

Excellent point. Um, I'm so glad that you said yes to coming because honestly, if you did it that way, if everyone did something that way, you would for sure become better friends with the other person because they took an interest enough in your stuff, your interests, to actually give it a shot and jump in and see what it was all about, you know. Um my friend Z uh recently got married, Mazel. Um, and he took his wife to go see a pro wrestling event live for the first time. Oh wow. And she had a great time. She was there, he explained things to her about like what was going on, the chance that happened, the stuff that was going on. Um, she she saw one of the performers and was like, Who's that guy? He's so hot. And to which she replied, Girl, yeah, he is. So, yeah, like these events uh are very fun. And I would urge you to if you have a free day or whatever, or you know, something's near you, go go see it. Go see it. It'll be fun, it'll be a fun time, regardless. But definitely, if you can, go with somebody that you know that's a fan, because they will they will uh lead you the right way. Um when it comes to experiencing the event and seeing it and all that other stuff. Um I just there's there's a lot that I haven't touched on in this uh, like I said, brief overview of everything. Um and a lot of you know cut-off discussions because like I keep on going on tangents about things. Um, because like we were talking about the attitude era, and that just completely went somewhere else as well. Yeah. Uh, but that's the kind of discussion that this is. It's more of a more of a visitation to things and things that maybe you should look up to be more, you know, if you're in more interested in them, because there have been plenty of you know, uh plenty of different programs. There's a great program out there uh that's done by Vice called The Dark Side of the Ring, which covers a lot of different pro wrestlers, their rise, their fall, uh battles with substance abuse, battles with uh you know hits that were taken out on pro wrestlers because of things that they said, or um the Monday Night Wars as well, which was the fight between WWF and WCW for raiding supremacy. Uh, there's a lot of different programs out there that have talked about different aspects of pro wrestling for geez, since as long as the sport has been around, honestly, um, that could do a much better job with much you know more learned individuals uh and people that were actually involved that you can go check out. I would highly recommend you watch uh Dark Side of the Ring to get a little bit more information about certain um wrestling promotions or individuals or whatever. Uh, and a couple of great movies that I would recommend is like I said earlier, The Wrestler with Mickey Rourke and Marissa Tomei. Fantastic movie. Uh, and then another one that was made more recently, uh, which was done by A24, um, that was called The Iron Claw, uh, which had to do with the Von Ericks uh family. Um fantastic movie as well. Uh, so I would recommend those different things to view, to watch, if this has at all piqued your curiosity um into pro wrestling. But the best thing, the best thing, either give it a shot on TV, uh, you can watch the E on, I believe, uh Netflix, you can watch AEW on TNT and TBS, uh, Wednesday nights um and Saturday nights. Uh, and then also uh you can um you know watch Japanese pro wrestling, you can watch highlights, all of it's on YouTube. Um, but for sure, if you have a friend that's into the sport, um if you have a friend that's into the sport that you can trust that won't lead you astray or whatever, and there's a show in your area, go with them, go with them and enjoy what the show is. So yeah, that's that's honestly all from me because uh I don't know, like there's just so much to touch upon in pro wrestling, it's history, where we were, where we've been, where we're going. Um, but I think that there is a bright future uh for those that are involved in the pro wrestling sphere, the athletes themselves, um, and just fans in general, because now that there is a mainline competitor uh with what was you know out there for the longest time, there is really choice. And choice uh offers up opportunities and it offers up uh competition between brands. So you know, iron sharpens iron or steel sharpens steel, as they say.

SPEAKER_03 1:42:32

Um and if you ever want to get into those dives, brother, this is our show. Yes, we want to entertain, we want to entertain people, make sure that y'all are liking what we're doing. But as we said at the very beginning of episode one, I remember you saying this, this is about anything that we adore. So if if you want to make a part two to the to to our wrestling overview and actually deep dive into one of these one of these companies, let's, if y'all enjoyed the episode from what you heard so far that who are listening and want us slash mostly donut with my commentary, but us to cover more wrestling stuff, let us know. Like we're doing this for you, we're doing this for us. Uh let us know with ye oldie back and forth. So don't don't like there may be a lot to touch on, but we can touch on it if you want to. Just saying.

SPEAKER_01 1:43:33

All right. Are you ready for the game, Grant?

SPEAKER_03 1:43:37

As ready as I'll ever be.

SPEAKER_01 1:43:39

I kind of touched on it a little bit during uh our discussion.

SPEAKER_03 1:43:44

Oh, yeah, the thing that you said that I said to keep spoiler free.

SPEAKER_01 1:43:48

Spoil me rotten now. All right. I'm going to give you a name of a match.

SPEAKER_02 1:43:58

Name of a match. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:44:00

And then you're gonna tell me if it's if it actually happened. Uh, or sorry, you're not gonna tell me if it actually happened. You're gonna tell me if it's actually a match or if I'm just making it up.

SPEAKER_03 1:44:13

Oh, kind of like the shoots and ladders thing. Gotcha. Exactly. Exactly. Okay.

unknown 1:44:20

All right.

SPEAKER_03 1:44:21

Pure gut instinct on this one. Let's go. All right.

SPEAKER_01 1:44:28

A triple threat match. Is it a real match type? Or is it a fake match type?

SPEAKER_03 1:44:35

That sounds like something that could be a real match type. I'll go with the real match type. You are correct. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:44:46

All right. A one fall match.

SPEAKER_03 1:44:52

That'll be I I that sounds like it could also be a real match type in a sport like this. Um, I feel like there is actually something similar to it in boxing. Um, Hajime no Ipo might have given me that impression. I'm gonna go with uh real match type.

SPEAKER_01 1:45:11

Wait a minute. Let's let's stop this real quick. Uh did you say Hajime no Ipo?

SPEAKER_03 1:45:15

I did say Hajime no Ipo. Have you have you seen Hajime no Ipo? I've been watching Hajime no Ipo. When? Just casually throughout over the last year. 52 episodes deep.

SPEAKER_01 1:45:35

No way, are you serious? Mm-hmm. Oh my god, bro, I love that anime. That is like one of my favorite anime shows.

SPEAKER_03 1:45:45

It was actually Boyfriend's idea to get into, and we're like, you know what? Yeah, let's put this on. And then ended up being one of our go-to's.

SPEAKER_00 1:45:52

Oh my god, that show is so good. I can't believe you actually watched it.

SPEAKER_03 1:45:59

We're still, I think that we I think we still have some episodes left, but uh you do, you do, but holy shit, man. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:46:06

Wow. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_03 1:46:10

I j I I I just broke the donut in a different way this time. Uh and there's the regular way. Anyway.

SPEAKER_01 1:46:18

Man, like uh this is I am we gotta talk about this off stream because holy shit, man. That makes two topics now. Holy God! That's amazing. I am super stoked and excited for you to watch that series because it's one of my favorite anime series of all time. Um, if you haven't watched that show, go watch it. Hajima no Ipo. Um, show about a a kid who is bullied uh all of his life and then uh just is saved by a boxer and decides to become a boxer after asking himself the question what does it mean to be strong? So go watch that. It's fantastic, fantastic. Anyways, uh a tables, ladders, and chairs match.

SPEAKER_03 1:47:04

Hold on, you never answered the question that that that old Ojibwe No Epo thing sprung from. The one fall match. Is that an actual match or were you making stuff up? Oh, that's an actual match. It's an actual match. Oh, okay, okay, cool. Just wanted to make sure. So what was the next one you said? Like a tables and ladders match? A tables, ladders, and chairs match. I mean, they do use tables, ladders, and chairs in wrestling, so I'll give it a real match.

SPEAKER_01 1:47:32

All all in one, all in one program? Is that what you're telling me?

SPEAKER_03 1:47:39

I feel like depending on depending on the the the the company or the promo, it could be all-in-one match, just like an item-based free-for-all. I'm gonna give it the real one and see where it goes.

SPEAKER_01 1:47:50

You are absolutely correct. There is a TLC match that was uh brought about uh by very many conflicting reports, Chris Jericho, um, or Edge, whoever you ask. Uh okay. A uh let's go with this match next. Uh a yappie strap match.

SPEAKER_03 1:48:22

Yappa pie strap match. Because you giggled. I want to go with this being a real one, but just very obscure that you didn't expect me to get was real. So I'm gonna go with real again.

SPEAKER_01 1:48:40

You are correct. It was a match. It was a match that was uh that was used by uh Hulk Hogan, and I forget who else he was fighting, but it's a very famous promo that uh Hulk Hogan did. Uh all right, next one. A flaming chairs match.

SPEAKER_04 1:49:03

I think you're making that up.

SPEAKER_01 1:49:07

I am making that up. It doesn't exist. It doesn't exist. Okay. A flaming tables match.

SPEAKER_03 1:49:17

Okay, there's a delivery pattern on this one. Um I just feel like I don't know. I feel like knowing now what I do about wrestling because of the rest of this episode, I feel like anything that could actually be set on fire would not be good for the wrestlers or the ring. So unless it's not a literal fire, I would have to say this one is also something you're making up.

SPEAKER_01 1:49:50

You are correct. There has not been a flaming tables match, to my knowledge, uh in the uh pro wrestling like mainline uh uh you know sphere but there have been uh there have been flaming tables used in pro wrestling well okay then so much for what I know uh let's go with a brass ring uh ladder match I think you're making that up nope actually happened brass ring ladder match yes there is something that was uh coined in pro wrestling uh called you know reaching for the brass ring okay so they used they used it as a silly uh gimmick match thing where somebody had to climb a ladder and reach for a literal brass ring that was hanging above the match or above above the ring um and it looked like a sonic ring just because you know uh like a a big sonic ring I thought you would get a giggle out of that one of course a lawnmower match because of everything else we've done with like literal flaming tables and chairs ladders rings I want to say you're making this up because I'm just having a hard time like imagining how a literal lawnmower would get involved you are correct it is fake okay a weed whacker match oh lord did somebody smack someone in the head with a weed whacker I really hope so for the comedy but I'm I'm gonna say another made up match it's another made up match there has not been a weed whacker match but weed whackers have been used in pro wrestling before oh my god right and right into somebody's chest yeah did not look very good uh I'm gonna go with this one uh a Tennessee uh street fight I feel like that's real it happened you're correct a miracle on 34th street street fight look I was in the theatrical adaptation of the play Miracle on 34th Street so if there was a miracle on 34th street fight that would be hilarious so I'm gonna go with that's real just for the sake of I want this to be hilarious.

SPEAKER_03 1:52:46

It is real it did happen.

SPEAKER_01 1:52:48

Oh my god please tell me someone came out there dressed up as Santa please was there a lawyer and was there a Santa Claus for the love of God there was a Santa Claus because there's been many different iterations of this uh there was also a uh couple of performers that dressed up like the Grinch when they were fighting oh my god yes miracle on 34th Street fight I love it uh a uh custody battle ladder match custody battle that's a new one um though I think wrestling though I think some uh companies producers would name it that custody over like a trophy or something so I'm gonna I'm gonna say that's real it is real and it wasn't over a trophy it was over a child what like it was an actual custody battle so in the storyline it was uh rey Mysterio Jr versus Eddie Guerrero Eddie Guerrero was fighting for uh legal custody over Rey Mysterio's son uh Dominic who he said was legitimately his child and they were fighting over custody for him oh my god since then uh Eddie Guerrero sadly has passed away uh but Dominic is following in his father's footsteps and becoming a pro wrestler and he has even alluded to that match saying that his real father was Eddie Guerrero and not his biological father Rey Mysterio Jr.

SPEAKER_03 1:54:32

Oh my god because you know history matters so it was an actual custody battle that now has a legacy and a part two to the fight that's that that's crazy yeah yeah I know right um let's go with a um a cross dressing uh um bra and panties match that sounds like something you just made up I I know I I know the you mentioned the bra and panties match in the bulk of the episode but with the long gap between cross dressing and uh just just I I I I don't know. Like it could very well be real but based on the way you presented it I'm gonna go with something that you just made up nope it's actually real it totally happened between uh I want to say um two performers uh uh but it's happened multiple times and this was during the attitude era um yeah the attitude era had some pretty pretty crazy stuff some attitude you might even say you might even say that uh and finally let's go with a fatal four-way ladder match that sounds too good to not be real so I'm a I'm gonna give that to real you are correct it is real it has happened multiple times in the past oh my god you did pretty good you did pretty good but I honestly uh I couldn't think of any really crazy ones besides the ones that were really real that happened like uh I was gonna use the shoots and ladders match or the Viagra on a poll match but we'd already kind of discussed those so yes man I was honestly expecting more along the lines of the shoots and ladders or the Viagra on a poll because I'm like wait a minute hold on a huh uh I should have I should have gone with the whole match though uh the a spit swapping shoots and ladders match a spit swapping shoots and ladders match I I I would have said that that was real but in a very different context and with that with that I have been Superbanter Bro Grit Patrizio and the very freshly baked well-versed leader of this episode has been Superbanter Brother so your donut and we will see you next time with whatever our brains compel us to talk about could be another deep dive could be something a little more casual could just be the two of us rantoring and bantering about things who knows either way we'll see you there hope you like this bit lengthier episode than our typical and we'll see you next time. Good night everybody.