Nonbinary Girlfriend talks about Unironically Trying

James Binkowski from Non Binary Girl Friend comes on the pod to talk about enthusiasm, taking yourself and your art seriously, moving to PDX, and playing music to have fun with the audience. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:20

This is the name of the podcast now, because Ung Slop is dead. RIP to Unk Slop. It'll come back. It'll resurrect. I don't know when this will come out at that point. Maybe it already has been resurrected. Uh I am here with James Binkowski of the band Non-Binary Girlfriend. Uh and James, we I honestly I don't remember the first time I ever met you or heard of your band, but all of a sudden it's like I feel like I've either been at a show that you're playing at, or you've played a show with a band that I've played with multiple, multiple times. Uh how you doing? How's it going?

SPEAKER_03 0:55

I'm good. Um yeah. I'm excited to uh talk about music and talk with you.

SPEAKER_00 1:02

Yeah, I've been on this podcast is a really big deal. It's like probably the biggest deal in the entire music industry.

SPEAKER_03 1:08

It's the biggest deal of my life right now, actually. Uh so I'm glad you that you brought that up.

SPEAKER_00 1:13

Oh, baby, yeah, I know. The 100 list we had about a hundred listens uh an episode. That's like that's not bad. That's respectful.

SPEAKER_03 1:21

If a hundred people were in my bedroom right now, I'd be stoked to hear this conversation.

SPEAKER_00 1:26

Oh my god, if there are a hundred people in my house, I'd be I'd be devastated. I don't want that many. Okay, like maybe not stoked is the right word, but yeah, yeah. No, listening to me talk, I that's more people than I ever thought was ever gonna talk to me. Do you know two million people a month watch me talk about nonsense? Two million. For real. For real. For reels, get it? Because they're on reels. Boom, nailed it. See, that's what they come for. They're here for this. Um that's but James, yeah. Uh what's good? Uh what is give you give a little background to everybody on on who you are, why we're talking, at least according to your uh point of view. I never know why I'm talking to anybody, I just talk. But uh and what you're all about. Go ahead. Give me everything you've ever thought and done in your entire life in the next uh 60 seconds.

SPEAKER_03 2:13

Um yeah, I I'm Polish American by way of Illinois.

SPEAKER_00 2:20

Let's go! My mom's maiden name is Bielski, baby. Bielski? Bielski, yeah. I got a Polish, it's like 25% Polish. I say it's a plurality, which means it's the largest of any group when no group is a majority. So plurality of Polishness. Let's go.

SPEAKER_03 2:38

Oh, they ski they say the skis are all royal.

SPEAKER_00 2:41

Oh, but I'm like, I'm not sure Chet was any royalty. I don't think Chet was royalty, man. Respect to Chet. Respect to Chet Belgian.

SPEAKER_03 2:52

Uh okay.

SPEAKER_00 2:53

That's a lot of royals, then.

SPEAKER_03 2:56

Um, yeah, well, okay, what's my deal? Um non-binary girlfriend. Uh I'm obsessed with uh trying to make music for it. Uh I don't know. I've been this is like my tenth year in Portland. Um I had a band before this called Cry Babe that like really kind of like I I don't know. I just never thought anyone would like really listen to me or listen to my music before, and like I mean, uh and no one did for a while.

SPEAKER_00 3:31

No, that's a huge part of it for most people. It's very rare when someone's like, I thought no one would listen to my music, and then they did. And it's like, no, and then it kept that's me right now. I I like keep making little reels, like, hey, by the way, I make music too. They're like, we don't we don't give a shit that you made music. We like that you talk about the music. Stop uh stop stop making us listen to these feedback tape noises. And I'm like, I can't stop that. I'm sorry, but uh we can't stop.

SPEAKER_03 3:57

You can't stop, you can't stop.

SPEAKER_00 3:59

You can't stop.

SPEAKER_03 4:00

Yeah, I came here with like a weird omni chord and some like put together pedals and not even a dream because I didn't really think that like I was gonna do music. Like I really didn't. I just like uh everyone else was doing it, and after a while, I was like, well, huh, like maybe I don't know, maybe I could do that. Like maybe like maybe that guy's not that impressive. Like maybe maybe I could learn a few chords, and like and then I met um the drummer for like Crybabe, and we were both just like we clicked and we were pissed at like the world and just like wanted to make something and didn't matter what it was, we just like had to make something, and I feel like that's really like why I'm still making something is just like I don't know, like to make it like I like the uh the attitude.

SPEAKER_00 5:05

A lot of people uh you know, a lot of people that I talk to, they're like, Oh, I just I kind of always knew I wanted to be in a band, I was playing guitar since I was like 13 years old, and it's like this. I mean, that's cool, yeah. That's uh all power to them, but like one of the things I love about rock, indie rock, DIY music and all that is like yeah, some people are like, I guess I'll do this because I like the people that do it and I want to hang out, and then they catch the bug or something, they just it's just a desire to do something, and like the technical proficiency, the uh kind of like even the seriousness of it all isn't the pre prerequisite. I feel like uh on the East Coast where I used to live, it was like, oh, if you want to try to like be in a band, you have to like take it like a serious job. And it's like, yeah, here it's like, no, I I just want to make something and I'm just gonna do it and see what happens.

SPEAKER_03 5:53

So I feel like it here it's more of like a lifestyle that like for the first time, I think it was like I was put in a context where it was like approachable to me because the city is so DIY. It just like because I was like so DIY, it's so DIY, like, and I just like didn't even know that was possible. Like coming from the Midwest, like, and I wasn't in Chicago where like cool shit was happening. Like I was in like the corn part of Illinois.

SPEAKER_00 6:22

You came from a field of corn, emerged from the field of corn, catch tyke your way out to uh the West Coast and started a band.

SPEAKER_03 6:29

Yeah, that I I just like feel like I don't know, the musical influences were so commercialized because like the East and West Coast are battling it out to sell to the Midwest. Yeah. That like when you think of like professional musicians, it's like, oh, that's just like not for me. That's not accessible for me, even though like I was kind of set up, like I stu I like studied singing like since I was like 10. I would like in choirs and stuff and stupid, like IMEA Illinois choir, like sing like stupid shit like that.

SPEAKER_00 7:06

But like so your ability to even make a choir, no one was ever like we should get him in the choir. That's never been my life. I would think things like kind of a magic. So like making a choir, that's like a big deal for me. I would that would be an accomplishment.

SPEAKER_03 7:16

I mean, it it was cool, but like also like when you're in choir, like nobody's like, you could write stuff, though. Like, what if we sang what you wrote? Like it just never occurred to me. And then even like being like 18, 20, like I started writing little songs and still it didn't occur to me that I should do anything with it. I was like, oh, that's a funny little thing. That's just a funny little thing, you know. But then you're put in the context of Portland DIY scene, and it just like seems so much approachable. It seems like yeah easy.

SPEAKER_00 7:50

I think uh like when I tell people, you know, like I I'm doing this, uh, you know, uh making all this content, whatever you want to call it, making the reels and all that. And like in part I'm doing it because people give me attention for it, and I like having attention, it makes me feel good. What I am not I'm not gonna say that like getting the attention doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_03 8:07

Do we stop denying it?

SPEAKER_00 8:08

Yeah, it's it's great. I love it. I did this to get attention. I but like there's this larger thing that's like racking around in my brain recently, which stems to the sort of larger project of some for me. It's like when I can see the shape of an idea in my head, but I can't actually see the details of it, that shit fascinates me because I'm trying to like carve out the rest of the details. And so I've been obsessed with this idea that like, well, the Americas are this emergent civilization coming into its own, right? It's this thing that is sort of creating itself from the soil up, is this idea of America the civilization, not just America the nation state or whatever. And within that comes the Pacific Northwest, right? As a region within that emergent civilization that has made itself distinct from like when you say Pacific Northwest, you have a vibe attached to it. Now, obviously, like part of it is just advertising, whatever, it's fucking Portland or whatever. But like there's this other part of it, like when you talk about when you came out here, there's a different attitude towards being in a band. No one expects you to be like, Oh, I'm gonna do it professionally. There it's okay to for it to be a hobby. The way I've translated that to my friends back on the east coast is like when I ask somebody out on the west coast, what do you do? If they don't answer with their job, it's fine. You just let them talk about rock climbing. Sometimes they answer with their job, sometimes they answer it with like gardening or something. Whereas on the east coast, that is a question about your job. What do you do is a question about your job, and it's like, all right, so to me, it's like, what is that distinct nature? What is it about the Pacific Northwest that allows that to be essentially with the exact same words, a different question based off of cultural context? There's just something about the Pacific Northwest that is like very, very DIY friendly. Do you feel that as well? Did that draw you out here from the cornfields of Illinois? You know what?

SPEAKER_03 9:54

That's not what drew me out here. I feel like nice, I feel like God just pulled me out here and knew, but like I literally came here to trim weed. Like the last couple of years that it was like worth it, and like, and then I was just here, and I was like, should I just like grab my shit? I'm just gonna grab my shit and come back because I was only gonna work a trim season, and then I was like, this is obviously so much better than like this is you know, anyway.

SPEAKER_00 10:28

It just vibes in a different way. It's just gonna happen. I also do love like how many people I know in Portland, and this might just be self-selection bias from like a DIY music scene, but how many of them had no real intention of either staying here for a very long time or even ending up here in any capacity? They just, you know, they just ended up either out of money or out of other options or just like good enough was like the vibe, the vast majority of people in Portland weren't like, this is where I want to be. It was like this is a good enough place to be right now, and we'll see what happens, and then boom, it's 10 years later.

SPEAKER_03 11:02

That's kind of what that's kind of what happened, but also like for me, and it's also like context-dependent on like where I was in my life and like all this other shit, but like moving to Portland, like for me changed my life. Like, I was like an alcoholic and like just like wait-I don't know, I was just wasting away, and it was just a totally different existence for me. Yeah, and then I just moved out here, and people were different, and things were different, and my life was different, and I wasn't in those same like contexts, and like I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 11:38

I like it was totally like random, but it just I I in a very similar vibe of like I actually remember thinking back in high school and stuff, it's like, well, I'd love to be like in a band, but like if I were to be in a band, like I'd end up being like an alcoholic and a drug user or something like that. And it was almost exactly the opposite, where it's like up to the moment that I started playing in bands, is like I would just get wasted or whatever. Yeah, exactly. Because it's like I didn't really have that, you know, I didn't have any of that social milieu, like drinking and stuff like that. It's a lot more social isolation a lot of times than it is just how much you like drinking. It's just I've got nothing else to do, and this my only friend right now is beer. Whatever. Totally, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:20

It I feel like it's not until you're put in a situation where you want to do something, you want to create something more than the experience of numbing yourself out. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:30

And that I just like not to get too off the wall on this, but like I am one of my other weird obsessions is like I there's something uh happening in the American consciousness right now about uh like this inability to see positive uh incentives as being valuable in a different way than negative incentives. That like whenever I offer. What do you mean? So yeah, no, no, it's like this idea that like um if you want to change somebody's behavior, just increase the level that they're punished, is the way that people kind of think about it. It's like if you want to stop somebody from doing something, punish them and punish them and punish them.

SPEAKER_03 13:06

Sure, I'm familiar with this.

SPEAKER_00 13:08

Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 13:09

Have we not oh my god, there's even so much science that this shit doesn't work. It doesn't kids.

SPEAKER_00 13:16

So that's one of the things is like where it's like I think most people even recognize that individually, but because we can't collectively act on that, I think it's just the way that a lot of the systems are set up, and it's really, I mean, if we want to get incredibly crazy on it, it's the logic of finance capital where it's like the only metric that finance capital has to play is if you miss a payment, we get to increase your interest rates. And that is the only metric to like increase and so like that logic bleeds into the logic of everything else, and so it's like everything that you do now, the only thing that can happen is either you do it exactly as they want you to do it and nothing changes, or you fuck up once or twice, and now you have to pay more interest until you can't get out of the interest, and it's like that shit drives people crazy. It makes them think like there's no nothing can ever get better than what it is right now, but I sure as hell don't want it to get any worse, is like the defining mantra of I think most of our generation, any generation that's younger than us.

SPEAKER_03 14:11

Yeah, I mean, like that's just like life under capitalism. I mean, like that's the thing, that's like living in a carceral system, that's the United States, yeah. Like and I feel like actually, hold on, because when I was a kid, when I was a kid, there was something called a carrot on a string. Yeah, and now they're not even fucking bothering to put a fake ass carrot on the string for us anymore. Like, there's no there's no carrot that we can't even obtain.

SPEAKER_00 14:45

Like this is it's I mean, it's just uh I think the the larger purpose that I like to and I don't want to get too much into politics or anything like that, just if anyone's listening, they're interested in this, read the economist Michael Hudson. But it's essentially that we stripped the definition of uh production away from actually being productive. Like you can the way that we track growth with the GDP measures that we use, uh paying interest on something is considered to be productive growth, but productive growth used to be you build something, you sell it, you make a little bit of a profit on it. Now it's just we've we no longer take rent out of the equation. So it's just they're collecting rents on everything. Spotify is just collecting rents on your ability to use their music library, right? Uh Uber Lyft, this is just somebody collecting a rent on you using your car to do a ride share thing, right? Everything in the economy is now built off of not producing more value, but producing more ways to extract rent off of something else. And in that world, nothing gets produced because it's too expensive to actually produce something, but the amount of available money keeps getting sucked up by more and more rents that are being extracted. And this is where this sort of historical nihilism is arising in the American consciousness, because the only thing we ever had to combat that was this idea that, like, well, your next generation will be better than the last one materially. That is no longer the case for the first time in the history of America as it's been known as that like terminology, you know, uh in the United States of America or whatever. This is the first time the generations have it worse, and so there's that's the carrot. The carrot was well, your kids' lives will be better than your life. Now it's like now that it'll probably be worse, to be honest with you. Uh, and we're not gonna do anything about it. So well, that was the carrot for them. Yeah, where's mine? We get no carrot. Who the fuck is mine? We're the first generation with no carrot, and it's like that that's gonna have consequences, and I just don't hear anybody talk really about it that because the people that are talking are still the boomers, they're still the cultural context of all this in the institutions and whatever, and here we are. Well, they got they got their carrot, they did and theirs wasn't even fake.

SPEAKER_03 16:49

I mean, it was kind of fake. They but okay, it was fake, but no, no, they got a real carrot, they got a real carrot.

SPEAKER_00 16:55

They got a real carrot, they still have all the wealth, it's like still there, you know. It's just uh but you know, I think in lieu of that, right? So uh in lieu of that, right? They have Woodstock and 50 million documentaries on Woodstock because they put together one festival that was okay, it was great, whatever, and they had a couple bands. World. Exactly. Meanwhile, Portland, Oregon, right now, is essentially just a patchwork of people trying to put Woodstock like festivals in their own basements all of the time, and they get fucking nothing for it. And it's like it's just but I love that part about it where it's like, all right, if we're not gonna get anything, if we're gonna just have scraps and hammy-downs, let's make an outfit out of this thrift store clothing, you know, let's make an outfit out of let's make a a music industry without any industry off of you know, just enthusiasm and love or whatever. Uh I don't know. I that's to me, that is part of the cultural DNA of the Pacific Northwest that I think is important. I think it's something to be kept.

SPEAKER_03 17:53

I mean, that's DIY. Like that is DIY. And like, I don't know, like I come from around St. Louis, which is also like a big DIY city, and like you I just like also something I noticed about New Orleans, like, too, just like the craftsmanship is in like every walk of life, just like in a per on a person's porch, you'll see this like art and shit that like it's not, it's like people aren't just like waiting around for other people to be the artist and show them what it is, you know. Yeah, they're just like doing shit, like making shit, and like I don't know, I love that.

SPEAKER_00 18:34

I think New Orleans is a fascinating example because it's like you know, I don't want to compare Pacific Northwest indie rock directly to jazz because I think jazz is a far more culturally important genre of music for a million different reasons. They're not gonna make a Ken Burns documentary on Portland D rock. I will say that much. But at one point, jazz was just jazz, it was played kind of everywhere, that was the popular version of music, and something over time solidified jazz and the city of New Orleans as being intricately tied together, right? That this sound, this genre of music was tied into the cultural fabric of what New Orleans is for a variety of reasons, probably the majority of it being the people that actually live in New Orleans and their like ability to express that, but like there is something in my head of like there is this genre of music that is associated with the Pacific Northwest that never went out of style here that was like very popular in the 90s and 2000s, it's kind of making a bit of a revival now, but like indie rock and the Pacific Northwest seem to have a similar not the same, but a similar connection culturally and with the specific genre of music. Do you feel that you are a part of that thing, that like larger indie rock, that larger Pacific Northwest sound? Do you think that you're coming as an outsider and contributing like a different sound to that?

SPEAKER_03 19:59

I don't consider myself like an outsider. Like I've I've been here for like 10 years now, and like I I don't know, like maybe it's different for me. I was I like my I was a military kid, so like we just moved around a lot. I've never lived anywhere 10 years.

SPEAKER_00 20:15

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 20:16

And I've never lived anywhere where I was like, I think I'm a part of this. I think I'm a part of this. It was always like you're outside of this, yeah, and you're gonna leave in three years, you know? So like I really do feel like I'm I'm a part of it. And like these scenes are built off of like everybody, everybody in this scene is like building this like thing that we're all a part of. And yeah, I I I I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 20:49

I'm just in the I went to my my hometown had a Air Force base attached to it, so we oh yeah. Uh I knew a lot of kids growing up that were, you know, Air Force kids, army brats or whatever they want to call themselves. And it's the same thing. They always came in, they were incredibly sociable, very, very easy to like make friends with anybody because they it was that or nothing, those are your only options, and then you'd be good friends with them for two or three years, then they would move to Germany and you would never see them again. It was over. And I was like, it's wild, that's a wild experience.

SPEAKER_03 21:23

It is weird, like having that be part of your life, like the compartmentalization of like saying goodbye. It's like you cause I don't know. After a while, you just kind of like start to meet people, and it's like you just like know that it's temporary as a kid because it is it literally is, you know? And so you kind of have this like, oh, don't get too close, but like we can, but then it's like, oh, we're gotta go. So like I don't know, also just like like feeling really like I'm staying. Yeah. Like I it's it's just like deepen the level of connection that I like with my community and with my friends and with like this place that I I don't know if I ever like really quite felt this way before. You might not have.

SPEAKER_00 22:15

I mean it that yeah that type of thing where you're just moving constantly, it just uh which is funny because I I get this again talking to a lot of Portland indie DIY music people or whatever. Very similar, not like Army is like kind of the you know uh the farm.

SPEAKER_03 22:31

Sure, but people move for a lot of reasons.

SPEAKER_00 22:32

And they're all these people that like they kind of saw themselves as drifters to some extent. And then what ends up happening, I think, here is that you end up in a zone where this city, because so many people moved to it, at least very recently, uh it's a very transient nature to it. So it's not weird if I run into somebody, they're like, Yeah, I just moved here like six months ago from uh Arizona. Instead of that being like, Oh, okay, that's interesting, you know, whatever. Everybody here in Portland goes, Oh, dude, I remember being six months in. This is weird. Yeah, it's like you're just starting to get your feet set and then you like talk. And what I find crazy is it's even the people that are from here, like the people that are from Oregon, yeah, are much more open to other people moving in than when I was in Boston. They're like, I made all my friends in middle school, I'm done. I can't do it. I can't make any friends. Exactly. But I feel like that's part of the culture here.

SPEAKER_03 23:24

Yeah. I noticed that as soon as I moved here, and like I was wondering if it was something about like how this is such a late developed and like colonized like city, like relatively to in the United States, like the East Coast was established so much earlier, and then like you know, Oregon Trail, like the the fucking journey that like you people did to get out here, like I feel like I don't know. I think I feel like it's something happened where it like got baked into the culture. So just be like, yes, you're here now.

SPEAKER_00 24:02

Like you were just saying, like with the Oregon Trail, right? And this is the part where I start feeling like I think maybe some things are are kind of magic almost. I whatever. I don't I don't know exactly how to explain it, but other than I don't want to call the Oregon Trail magic, but I no, not that I would just say that like the fact that it's the first association most people have when you say Oregon is this Oregon Trail. It is this sort of like subconsciously you connect the dots of like if you are going to go west, you end up in Oregon. That's like where this spot is. It's like this this natural myth of Oregon has already been founded of like this was where you go if you're trying to like start a new life in America. You gotta come out west, and this is the place where you go and you try to set camp.

SPEAKER_03 24:46

Okay, actually, though, actually, I think that first was California. And I still think even in popular media and everything, number one, escape my life, dream life. Absolutely, California LA or New York, but I feel like LA is like the new, totally different life, like thing, you know? California and then and just like the gold rush, that's why we're here, because the gold rush was a fucking bust, and then people moved up. Yeah, and like ended up in Oregon. We're like, this is pretty tight, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 25:20

Well, I I look at it as like California is the Garden of Eden, like it's where you go where the weather is nice, and if everything works out perfectly, you want to end up in LA, and it's like the whole new you will be the golden god version of you or whatever. I feel like the people that end up in Oregon are coming out here and being like, I don't think it's gonna be a dream. I don't think it's gonna be easy. I think it's I I want to go somewhere where it's gonna be cold in the winter, it's gonna be wet, and I want to be around the people that embrace that, that go, like, I listen, I know I could just move to California, but like this is this is where I'm gonna build my life, and I know it's gonna be harder, but I think because of that, you end up with a more authentic, I don't know, I view it as a more authentic culture or something.

SPEAKER_03 26:03

I think I think you have something there. Yeah, I feel like California is like kind of like that more idealized like dream world, and honestly, and I like I didn't like I said before I moved here, consider myself like a musician or anything. And so it's like California, that's not for me. Yeah, that's not for me. That's for someone else with dreams. Yeah, I I'm here to work and trim weed, like I need to, you know.

SPEAKER_00 26:30

Exactly. You want to work your in in the weed factory doing like good hard work. You wanted to work on a farm, you know? It's like it's a weed farm, but it's a farm.

SPEAKER_02 26:39

Can I just say, like, I thought when I came here it was gonna be like the joints are rolling, like we're harvesting, we're trimming the weed, like yes, and then I get here, it's fucking raining, it was hard, I'm on a farm.

SPEAKER_03 26:57

I was like, this fucking sucks, like yeah, and there was no weed because we were tape, we were harvesting the weed that we wanted to smoke. It was like the worst, it was so bad.

SPEAKER_00 27:16

Oh man, that's awesome. I mean, that's like that's a great little story. That's a good story in its own right, though, because it's like I feel like you have to have an idealized version of the new you to like take that risk, right? And then I honestly like I feel like there's nothing better than you get what you asked for and it and then it is what it is in reality. Like you were like, I'm gonna go to Oregon, I'm gonna go pick weed, and then you like you were given what you asked for, and you're like, this low-key kind of fucking sucks. Now what? Like that question of now what? Yeah, if you can deal with that and answer that and figure out a new, like, all right, I'm gonna go chase this thing, that's life, man. Like, you have to come up with you can't lose the idealism, you can't lose the idea that maybe something better's out there.

SPEAKER_03 28:01

Yeah, and somehow I still ended up moving here.

SPEAKER_00 28:03

Yeah, you know, it got me to go somewhere, you know? Yeah. And here you are talking on a podcast about your band non-binary girlfriend.

SPEAKER_02 28:11

So when did you start playing eight years later?

SPEAKER_00 28:15

When did you start playing in non-binary girlfriend? When did that project start up?

SPEAKER_03 28:20

So non-binary girlfriend started in 2021, and I started playing solo. Um, I started playing solo, and it was like me and my omnicord. I like Crybabe, had like our drummer moved, and like, yeah, you know, whatever. Bands, how bands end it.

SPEAKER_00 28:47

The transient nature the transient nature of Portland. Transient nature of Portland cuts both ways, where it's like, yep, they come and they go.

SPEAKER_03 28:56

So they come and they go. And so I'm like doing these weird shows, like mostly on Anarchy Beach solo with like an omnichord, this like this like old, like 90s Suzuki like beat maker thing with buttons that don't all the way work, and like a little like weird drum pad, but you have to hit it really fucking hard or else they don't work. And um, and a guitar, and I was just like trying to make it all work, and like I did this like cover of that don't impress me much that like I still kind of wish I could bring back. Like, because like with the beat machine, I don't know. Anyway, it was funny, but that's how it started was just like me being weird, and then uh there was this one gig where I like wanted to impress somebody, and they didn't come, but I really wanted to impress somebody, and I was like, it I think it was like Halloween, like 20, 21, or 22, 21, one of those, maybe 22 even. Oh, yeah. And I was like, I need a band, like I need a band, I can't just like be out here solo anymore. So like I get this band together um with Eric Ambrosius, who is still my drummer to this day, and say Harrison, uh Kyle, um too many Kyles.

SPEAKER_00 30:33

There's way too many Kyles. Too many Kyles, too many Kyles. That is the one thing about Portland that I find I thought I was like a unique special snowflake. The amount of Kyles I know, I'm like maybe my entire life was preordained by my name. Like maybe I was drawn by the siren sort of thing.

SPEAKER_03 30:47

The Kyle drew you out here. Where are you from?

SPEAKER_00 30:50

Wait, I'm from Massachusetts.

SPEAKER_03 30:52

Oh, okay, okay, okay. So yeah, all the way.

SPEAKER_00 30:55

Oh, baby.

SPEAKER_03 30:55

Um, anyway, uh started playing. I don't know. What was I sorry?

SPEAKER_00 31:02

I'm just history of the band, stuff like that. Uh first off, Anarchy Beach drop uh name drop is awesome. Uh for anybody listening that like is not part of the Portland music scene, Anarchy Beach was just a uh I forget exactly who it was that owns the generator, but somebody owns a generator that uh they would I don't know if this is still the case at Anarchy Beach, but they used to run shows at different locations. Like uh the Bandam In with my wife Yellowroom once played under uh the 495 overpass. Like if you go down by where Bernstein's Was it Heaven's Kate? Heavenskate, yeah, Heavenskate. There you go. Yeah. And we like played a show underneath the overpass, and it actually sounded pretty good. Like I thought it'd be the highway.

SPEAKER_03 31:44

Who's fucking? They weren't bad. They knew how to go outside, and we needed it outside.

SPEAKER_00 31:48

Exactly. And Anarchy Beach is like a famous spot. Uh well, I forget the name of the island, whatever.

SPEAKER_03 31:54

It doesn't really matter, but it's just uh It's got such a weird name, like Lumbergertz.

SPEAKER_00 32:00

It's so close to my house, and it's like the Daimler truck company is right there, yeah, and everyone parks in their parking lot, and we just go on the beach, and there's just like band set up there, and people just hanging out on the beach watching the river, and it's fucking sweet. It's like it's such a cool you only get there if you like heard it from word of mouth, like somebody just kind of says, Oh, we're playing this thing, and like pass it along, type of thing. And it's just it's one of those unique Portland things that I think if you told me, like, oh, you're gonna go to shows like this when I was moving here, I would have driven like 15 miles an hour faster the whole time, you know.

SPEAKER_03 32:35

I yeah, I truly never experienced anything uh like these like outdoor DIY shows, especially all the ones that were like really popping up in like the like uh 2021-22 when like ever we're still like really.

SPEAKER_01 32:52

When that generator was going on, we still need outdoor spaces, sorry, but like um anyway.

SPEAKER_00 32:59

Uh no, I mean uh when did uh when do you start you know getting a little bit of attention, obviously? Uh a little bit of attention as a subjective term or whatever. When do you start start when do you start to feel like alright? This is starting to come together as a band. I'm starting to feel myself a little bit as a songwriter, as a performer. Because I will say, if you haven't seen Non-Binary Girlfriend, the performance aspect of it is phenomenal. You sell yourself up on that stage. I don't know if it's a character or whatever it is, but it is theatric, and I love it.

SPEAKER_03 33:34

Definitely not a character. Um that's just my subconscious like spilling out all over everything. Um it and that performance style definitely took a while to grew because at first I was playing guitar in the band, and then I was playing bass. Um and like anyway, when I first I think like after our first album came out, I started to feel like more confident. I was like, this is a thing that I like I want to keep pouring. Like I already I I knew it was a thing I wanted to keep pouring into, but like the after the album release, and like I just our first album release on Valentine's Day in 2023 was just like it was the first time I'd ever felt like an outpouring of love like that. Yeah, from not maybe not like the first like cry babe, like I don't know, it was like we had good shows, but like for this band, and like I was like, whoa, like um that's crazy. And then I think there was also we released a video not long after that and 40 feet tall played, and uh it was like my birthday or something, and the crowd started autonomous singing happy birthday to me. Aww. And like loud, like loud, it was like crazy, and I'd never experienced anything like that. I was floored. That's wild. I'm actually still like kind of like, did that happen? Like, but it was around that time when I started to be like, oh, like okay, like yeah, this is something. Like this, this is like like I'm doing something here. And it's also when I kind of started to like alchemize that shift between like ideologically, between the first and second album. Like, I really felt like the first album was like really sad, really inner child, really like really just like reaching around for my gender and my expression, and like, what am I? What is it gonna be? And like all of this, like old trauma, like coming out. It was a big processing album for me of like a bunch of like old like stuff, and I really felt like when I started writing the songs for this current album, I'm not pretty that like there was something shifting where it was like I kind of know who I am now, and I'm pissed, like I'm fucking mad, and we are not dealing with kid James anymore, okay? Like, I don't know, and that there was something like so powerful in it, and like I mean, like obviously I'm still going through it.

SPEAKER_00 36:42

Yeah, if you I don't know, if you listen, but like I think uh what I like hearing about that is like I feel like uh a lot of people do what you did on the first album. They're like, I just there's a lot of stuff that I'm working through. I'm gonna use music to like work through that stuff, and I think one of the things that doesn't get talked about enough when people have the album where they're trying to work through things is like the hope is is that you do work through it with the songs, that like you work through it, that it you don't have to deal with like the sadness and the vulnerability. I feel like anger is a good next emotion after something like that when you realize like this was kind of a tragedy, and then it's just like dude, fuck everyone that did that, fuck everyone that made me feel that way, fuck nothing at all. I don't even give a shit. I'm just I I don't I'm dealt with like the sad. I felt the sad. Now I'm just yeah, I'm just filled with fucking energy, and I'm gonna use it as anger because it's I mean, anger is very cathartic. It's why people I think it's like I don't know, part of the reason people go to shows where the bands are playing angry loud music is because it does feel good to be angry. There's an outlet, you need an outlet for that in the same way that you need an outlet for you know, sad introspection.

SPEAKER_03 37:55

Yeah, I think like anger, someone smarter than me said this recently that it kind of orients you like in a way. And I also like I don't know, um for me, like uh, you know, I I I'm a boy, but I like people didn't know that. I didn't know that growing up. I was like, I was raised like as a girl or whatever. Yeah. Sorry, I'm saying that so awkwardly, but we can make it more awkward.

SPEAKER_00 38:26

We can make it so much more.

SPEAKER_03 38:28

Yeah, let's really take it. But like I feel like for me, anger was a dangerous emotion. It was taught to me as a dangerous emotion, and what is safe for you as a girl is to be sad.

SPEAKER_04 38:45

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 38:45

Is to be sad and to cry about it because that means you're not gonna fucking do anything about it to like externally, and that also means that you're gonna try to fix it within yourself on your end so that I don't have to fucking do anything, and so that is what like was acceptable for me and anger, like I feel there's something that I'm trying to express here about the anger and the gender and the evolution. It's all someone more eloquent than me could maybe say it, but like, does this mean anything? Does the swirling hand motion mean anything?

SPEAKER_00 39:22

Well, I kind of like that you use a swirling hand motion because like in my mind, anger is uh it's it's a fucking laser pointer, right? Like when you get angry, you take everything and you boil it down into one, you know, one fine tube of pure hatred, and you shovel everything through it so it has to expand how fast it goes to get to the tube. Uh like that you know, that's that's how air conditioning works. Uh, but like honestly, uh the thing that I'm thinking about, because I I I don't know why my brain makes the connections it does, but like when you're talking about anger, I it reminds me of a video I watched on YouTube about people playing the video game Rocket League, where they're just like, we're gonna practice being as nice to our teammates as possible and as toxic to them as possible and see what happens. And he's like, when we were toxic, everybody focused more, everyone was angry at each other, but they played so concentrated. And the problem is it runs out of steam after a while. Like uh, you can't be angry forever because it just loses its coal. But like, there is an a power to anger of like, no, I am I actually know exactly what I'm doing right now. I'm being angry, I'm going for this thing. There's no question about it. There's no like, and that's what you're looking for. Is like I want to be angry, I feel angry at something on the world, and everyone's suddenly no no dissipate it, dissipate it, don't let it boil into anything. You're like, no, no, I I can feel it, I want to focus it on something, and like I don't know, music is a great way, is a phenomenal way, specifically with anger, because there are a lot of very bad things you can do with anger, drinking being one of them sometimes. You want to drink angry, but like going even playing a karaoke song and just yelling cowboy Dan by Modest Mouse and being angry for a moment when you do that. That's a great outlet for that. I think I don't know. It seems like you figured something out just by doing a bunch of stuff, so uh it makes sense to me.

SPEAKER_03 41:12

Uh I I don't know. Yeah, it's like I don't know where I was going with that.

SPEAKER_00 41:18

Yeah, I think that's I I like the way that this is why we usually have uh Isabel uh on our pod as as my third host. I I well I was described once by a teacher as a non-linear thinker, which I think meant I didn't make sense when he read my essays. Do you mean ADD? Yeah, it's just it's just thoughts. But I like connect a lot of stuff all the time, and then my wife gets really mad at me because I'll like have connected something and I won't explain the connection. I'll just talk like she gets what I'm talking about. She's like, you switch topics mid-sentence. I'm like, I don't I don't know what to do about that. But like now we have two of us here, two ADD balls of fury, just being like, Yeah, here's a thought of but yeah, uh in terms of that stage persona, because I think, especially with Portland, there is a temptation here for a lot of audiences and bands to just be very cool and like relax and they just don't do anything. And you and specifically 40 feet tall, I think is another example of bands that like throw all that away. You're just gonna grab a microphone and get everyone all rowdy, and I think Portland like needs that right now. Do you feel that?

SPEAKER_03 42:25

Yes, and I'm so tired. I'm so tired of pretending that I'm fucking cool and that I'm not trying, and that I'm not fucking trying. I'm working my ass off over here. I am trying, I'm practicing, I'm not like naturally gifted at any of this. I'm I'm trying really hard. And I don't know, you posted a video about that, like where you were like with the podcast. It's like, yeah, I'm trying to do this shit. And I'm like, when did it become lame to try to do something? I when did it become lame? I don't really know. I think it's I I don't know. My favorite response secrets out, I want to make music really bad. Like that's trying.

SPEAKER_00 43:16

I think the era of sincerity posting, you know, it's like this is no, this is I genuinely want I like when I make these reels, like I want you to think that I'm a smart guy that says smart things about stuff. I put a lot of thought and time and effort into trying to come up with smart things to say. I know I'm not that smart because I'm getting these ideas from smarter people, but like I don't want you to think that like I I don't know, I I've I don't like lying to people. I that to that extent, I don't like lying to people where it's like I don't want to pretend like, oh, I just had this thing. Like, oh, I've just posted stuff. I don't even care if you watch it. I care tremendously. I check my numbers constantly. It's something I do, it's just who I am. It's it's an insecurity more than anything. Like, I know it's an insecurity. But like, you know, when I make music, I'm making music because I want it to be good and I want you to like it. You know?

SPEAKER_03 44:07

I I just I really want it to go be good. And I think that's like at the end of the day, that's all I ever wanted was for like to I wanted to make something that was really good, undeniably.

SPEAKER_02 44:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 44:27

I don't know, I don't I don't know, and I'm I'm the first album practice. This last album practice. I'm doing it again. I'm doing it again. Like I I just like I want I wanted to make that. I don't know, just something you just that was good.

SPEAKER_00 44:45

You don't even know what the word good means, but like it seems like for you, this is my readoff of our conversation here, is that like your way of knowing something is through doing it, you know? Like you wanted to go, you know, move to Oregon and pick weed and do whatever, and then you did it, right? And that now you know more about you know exactly what it is, right? Because you we went out and you wanted to be in a band, so you want to make something good, and it's like, well, you can sit and research and listen to a million other bands and write things down and develop a really strong opinion, or you could just try to fucking make something good, and then the thing is, I'm sure you've had it, every once in a while you've done something where you went, I really liked that. I enjoyed the shit out of that. Is and the first time you do that musically is one of the best feelings, is why we're still doing this. We're all hooked to that shit, you know.

SPEAKER_03 45:36

I think that you brought up a really good point, is that like, yeah, I really wanted to make something that like other people thought was good, and like, but like, yeah, there's something there's something really special about making something like that you think is really good.

SPEAKER_00 45:54

Like it's just it's nice. I don't know, it's nice to reflect upon the part of yourself you put out there and go, I like that, because you're just saying, I like me. I like me. I did a thing that I like, that's me that I like there, you know. In the which it's funny for a lot of people I know in Portland, a lot of people that you know have different feelings or whatever, they're very uh it's very easy for them to talk about their friends and what they love about them. And they sit there and be like, Oh, I love this, they're the best person I've ever met. It's like I do that to yourself. They're like, absolutely no way in hell would I ever do that to me. But it's like that moment where you make a song and you listen back and you go, I actually kind of like that. That's you seeing yourself as somebody else might see you, which just makes a lot of people they're just easier on themselves sometimes, like that. Like sometimes you have to depersonalize yourself in order to like yourself the person. See, that sounded really deep, but that's just word salad, baby. Let's go.

SPEAKER_03 46:47

I know I really loved that, and like I do use songwriting to understand myself. Like a lot of time, like I that's why I started writing songs at all, is because like I'm a very like verbal emotional processor, and I need to I need to see it on the page, I need to hear it in the song to really process like what I'm doing, like what I'm feeling. And yeah, I feel like that even like can be expanded to like my own concept of self and like self-respect and like who I think I am as like a person and an artist. And I don't know, the like songwriting is just such a unique tool. Everyone should do it, everyone should be in it just do make a band, everyone. Make a band. What up?

SPEAKER_00 47:39

That is the point of this podcast. Is it's like I just I want somebody to listen to it who is sitting there thinking, like, I can't really do this, I am not talented enough. Uh, it's too late for me, it's not even gonna be that fun. What if I just played only small shows? Wouldn't that feel lame or something like that? It's like, no, trust me, you'll have a great time. It's gonna be awesome.

SPEAKER_03 47:59

Yeah, you're gonna be gonna have a great time. It's not about that.

SPEAKER_00 48:02

It really isn't.

SPEAKER_03 48:04

It yeah, I don't know. Everyone, if if this is you, start the band and like don't wait to like find the perfect musician or whatever. Like, I just I I couldn't even play guitar. I couldn't even play when I first started. You just do it, you just do it and you figure it out. But maybe that like, like you said, that is me. I do feel like I like I don't know, what did you say? Experience through living or something. I just like it just I don't know. Maybe it's the AD. I can't like over plan it too much. It's like I get the idea and it's like eventually you gotta do it or you don't, you know, like and you don't know how it's gonna go. That's why I feel like I'm like, let's just send it, let's just do it.

SPEAKER_00 48:52

Like oh yeah. I think every single album I've ever released, uh, which looking back on it now is wow, it's been I think I have like eight or nine albums that no one's ever listened to. Like no one has ever listened to them. Not even people I play music with now know all have listened to all of them, and I wouldn't, you know. Where are they? They're all on Spotify now. They were on Bandcamp, but like they're very strange. Most of them are like just side A, side B for cassette tapes. So they're like 18, 20 minute long things, but regardless, it's like uh I don't even remember what exactly what I was gonna say on this point here. Just listen to go listen to my albums.

SPEAKER_03 49:31

Uh just well, I've listened to all of them, by the way. I I'm here.

SPEAKER_00 49:35

There we go. There we go. But no, it's like uh, I don't know, this oh, the the whole uh practice of just kind of like you if you try to wait in your head for the perfect theory of like how it's gonna work, you're gonna get stuck by some sort of paralysis. You're gonna get stuck in uh an inaction loop, and like no matter what you think, it's like driving a car, no matter what they tell you in driver's ed, it's not the same as when you get out there for the first time you have to merge onto the highway. And yeah, there you go.

SPEAKER_03 50:04

That's the other thing about like trying to pre-plan too much, and like I I feel like I learned this over and over again, like when I moved here and when I the but the first bit and the second, whatever. Like, you don't yeah, you don't know what it's gonna be like when you actually do the thing by the time you're making those like second-tier decisions, like that are like built off that first plan. Like, there's no way that you can pre-plan for like that stage two. You just have to get there and then see how it goes. Like, I don't know, maybe I'm just like so type B, like then that's just like how I live my life. But like, I I don't see how I could like plan it out that far in advance without knowing.

SPEAKER_00 50:48

I I use this expression that I've heard a lot, which is just uh cross the river by grasping for the stone or grasping for stones, like which I get from Deng Xiaoping of the Chinese Communist Party. Uh he tries to you try you know you're trying to cross the river, and it's just grasping for something solid to hold on to and pull you a little bit further, and that's that's progress. It's just yeah, cross the river by grasping for stones. I love that. That to me is like that's really freeing because I think I grew up in an environment that was like, oh, unless you know exactly each step of the way, don't start. Wait until you know the whole pathway, and then once you've set up a nice little treadmill, then you can just step on the treadmill, and it's like I I would get bored of that too. Like, I I I would not want to do something where I knew all the steps for the next five years. I I don't even play the songs that I've practiced a lot the same way twice.

SPEAKER_03 51:35

Honestly, yeah, and things like like going back to school or like why don't you finish your degree or like whatever, like when I know, like I would like look at the next four years just knowing that that was school, school, school, school, school. It's just like nope, nope, yeah, no fucking way, no fucking way. I think there's a boy some of that, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 51:59

I don't know. Yeah, I just I don't want to know.

SPEAKER_00 52:03

Exactly. It's fun to like live in that moment. I mean, maybe it'll catch up to you, maybe it fucking won't. I don't know. Like, you don't know if it's gonna catch up to you and what even catch up to you is gonna look like. I know for a fact a lot of people would look at my life and be like, oh, I wouldn't want that. You play in these small little bands to nobody, and it's like, yeah, it's the best thing that I've ever done. It's great. I love it. So uh before we hit up on the the hour mark, uh I want to give you a chance to talk about any music you want to. I know when before we started recording, you started just showing me your record collection. There we go. Yeah, bury me at Makeout Creek.

SPEAKER_03 52:39

All right. Okay, so like when we were talking about first doing this, I'm like, um, you were like for I something about like your first big song inspiration. Yes, I think you're maybe writing a song or something. I don't smoke, number five. Let's go off Bury Me at Make Out Creek. That and then also Girl Pool, this first album, just the whole thing, just the whole thing, but and the whole obviously the whole bury me at Makeout Creek, but this was the song. I Don't Smoke was that fucking song that like floored me, that made me hungry to make something, even like just a glimmer of that bright, like just a glimmer of that nuance, that beautiful, but that straightforward. And then like with Girlpool, I heard this shit rocked me because it's so good. It's so good, but it's so simple. Yes, it's so simple. And listening to them, this was the first time that I was like, oh, like maybe this is approachable to me. Maybe it doesn't have to be this like sophisticated, out-of-reach thing. Maybe there is some genuine, just like simple songwriting. And so to me, I was thinking about this because I was like, these are such different vibes, right? Yeah. What is the through line here that I was feeling? And I think it was even though Mitsuki's lyrics are so much more like flower, like not flowery is the right word, but just like in-depth, a little more complex, like a little more world-building, whereas like the the girl pool stuff is obviously more stripped down and simplified, there is an emotional directness and through line through that emotional intent that I think like I was like, I want this, I want some combination of this.

SPEAKER_00 54:54

Like, I think uh for both of them, when we were talking earlier about like sincerity, both of them as artists are like, you can tell there's no irony in the it's what I mean. The that I've been trying to think of something to say about that girl pool record that he just showed on one of these walks for a while, but like it's one of those albums that I'm like, I don't want to mess up this reel on it, like a 60-second reel. Oh you fucked this up. Right? Because I'm like, I just uh I would never want anyone to listen to that record and let my opinion of it get in the way because it's it says everything you need to say right there. They say it, they nail it. They said it. And I think the big thing that you're talking about as well is like there's something to be admired about really, really proficient technical music, something that like some fucking smashing pumpkin song that's like 10 minutes long, and Billy Corgan and Jimmy Chamberlain are like professional world-class athletes, right? That doesn't really make that actually makes me feel worse about playing the guitar. Whereas when I heard uh Jay Maskis sing on Dinosaur Jr. for the first time, and he has his awful Dinosaur Jr. voice, and I was like, I can do that, I can sing like that, and then he plays loud, and like it's the approachability of it sometimes of like, oh, this isn't magic, this is just effort and time, and I have time and I have effort. I just wanted to know that like it wasn't gonna be completely in vain, and you hear something like that, and you're like, this is beautiful and approachable, that's huge, that is absolutely gigantic.

SPEAKER_03 56:27

And I think for yeah, I think you're so right, and there's I think one more thing that it is, which is like it's genuine, it's so genuine, and like even like because Mitskey, why am I I'm like as senior? No, no, I love this, I love this.

SPEAKER_00 56:46

Um it's the first time anyone's actually shown an album on this. Uh I'm gonna have like a reel that actually shows an album somewhere, so this is gonna be good.

SPEAKER_03 56:54

Yes, um, but I feel like even like she was so stripped down on this album, and and and obviously, so stripped down, girl pool was so stripped down, and I I think it was like the first time that I was like, maybe I don't have to play guitar perfectly, and maybe I don't have to like even sing technically perfectly, even though I thought that was all I had was like the voice or like that being able to sing. I I thought that was it for me, but it was like it. I don't know. You can it isn't about the technical ability, it's about this like through line of genuine emotion. That's like that's what I'm looking for in music, and I think that's what like our fan base is looking for. Like that that's what I'm reaching for with pile up, like it's this like very tangible emotional through line that's like so genuine.

SPEAKER_00 57:54

Um that's really like and that's one of the things that I genuinely love about the Portland music scene, and part of it is unfortunately because nobody makes any fucking money off of it. Is that like if you're gonna do this, if you're gonna show up at eight o'clock at night on a beach behind a trucking company, right? And you're gonna make no money and you're gonna have to lug that drum set away from the beach after the show. Like, you've got to wait hours to do that. Like a quarter mile. Exactly. It's a long walk and it's sandy, and it's still alive. There's still sand in your drum set forever. It's just such a pain in the ass. But like the people that survive that for years two, three, four, five, the people that have been doing it for a while, uh, that you know that they're reaching for something earnest. You know that they're reaching for something in the sublime. I like to think of it as in the sublime. They're trying to make, you know, something very, very human and something very personal, just something that connects to other people in some like very, very real way. Uh and I don't know. I think part of that is like if if there was a music industry in Portland where you could really make it and you could be like the guy or something like that, you would have some people in it that are still holding up for the paycheck. But here, right now, at least the last couple years, like if somebody practices that much and they get that good and they get that good at songwriting, they don't expect fucking anything from this. They just really wanted to do that. If they get stuff, that's awesome, but like they're just trying to like be real.

SPEAKER_03 59:28

I do think that the there is another side to the sword of the DIY magic here in Portland.

SPEAKER_04 59:36

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 59:37

Which is that because we don't expect to make a living off of this music, and it does offer for me more freedom in my songwriting. Like, I don't feel like I have to hustle and make these tours and make everything super profitable, and I can be more genuine with my music. But I do think that like because we don't expect to get paid, venues, no one in particular, take advantage of us, dude. Oh, yeah, yeah. And they act like I'm a fucking bitch for asking, like, what's the room rent? What's the deal? Is there a guarantee? I'm like, why are you coming to me in my DMs with no information on money? You literally own the venue.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:26

What like well, the other thing that I think is funny too is like for you specifically, it's like, listen, I I don't know who you are. You're just a venue that like reached out to me. If I wanted a show, I would call if I was gonna do a show for as like a solid for someone, I would wait till I would ask any of my friends if they need a solid. You're a venue, there's a business, like let's just make a deal. Just treat me like a business if you're yeah, if unless we're cool, in which case, if you're like a friend of mine or something like that, like what am I getting out of this? You know, I think that's a perfectly reasonable thing.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:56

Yeah, I don't need to talk money with like Rainforest Cafe, but like Exactly, give me a real offer.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:03

Like Well, also, you know, like, all right, I'm gonna go play a show for at Jordan Krinsky's house, right? You know that that kid is gonna send spend so many hours every single week doing something for other bands. So, like, indirectly, you are helping out all of the other people by just like, you know, if you do him a solid, you know it's gonna come back. And he's earned that reputation because he's, you know, Jordan Krinsky, man. He does everything, he's earned it. It's absolutely a great one. Exactly. And like, I think that's the thing that's nice about the people in the scene that you like. It's like, yeah, I like them because they've earned that. I respect them as you know, artists, as friends, as people that make stuff. There should be, though, a little bit more accountability on like, alright, well, when I am gonna get paid, uh, these opportunities where somebody's gonna make some money off of it. Like, I'm not even asking, like, oh, pay me up front, whatever. Just let me in on how much money this show is going to make and then what my cut of that is. So at least let me know if you're gonna screw me a little bit, you know?

SPEAKER_03 1:02:01

Yeah, like obviously I'm not talking DIY and obviously I'm not fucking talking about benefit shows. But like, if you are a venue reaching out to me, like I I'm just I I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:13

I just this it's a problem that is part of my fascination with this like Portland Pacific Northwest cultural identity, right? Is like the double-edged sword of DIY, the good of it is like it it creates this very authentic cultural space where people feel the freedom to like put the art first, right? The downside, one of the benefits is like or like one of the downsides though is that because nobody really makes any money, as soon as you don't have the desire to do it, you just kind of drop out and you gotta go. Oh, and then uh and then uh what's it called? Uh but the the other part of that though is that like when people just drop out because they just don't have the enthusiasm for it anymore, that does open more space for younger bands to come in and fill in these gaps sometimes. So there's like I think what I want to really do as like a project is try to distill down what is essential about Portland's Pacific Northwest like DIY culture so that we can have real serious discussions about like, okay, this is what we want to keep, this is why we want to keep these things. We've kind of scientifically distilled this is the essence of what we like about DIY. And so from that point on, it's like, alright, now let's go figure out how we can make some sort of money, make some sort of like impact, make something. What are the problems that we actually want to solve? And we can solve them in a way that isn't gonna tear down the essential parts of DIY that we actually like and enjoy. Uh oh man. Sorry. How are you doing? That was a good one. Yeah, the allergies are killing, man. It's only gonna go.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:49

I keep trying to silence myself. Is it working?

SPEAKER_00 1:03:51

No, you're doing it. Also, uh, I got a friend who's gonna be editing these things as well, so we're we're good. We're good. We're good.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:57

Thank God. So sorry.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:01

But yeah, this is also uh an hour in. Um, I usually like to keep this to an hour because I my big thing is like I just want to respect the time of the listeners. It's hard to ask for more than an hour of people's time, right? I don't think I've earned that right yet. I've barely earned more than 60 seconds of most people's time, to be honest. Um, but time for plugs. What do you got coming out? What are you working on? What shows are coming up? What are you excited about?

SPEAKER_03 1:04:27

So April 19th, the I'm not pretty music video is coming out, and I'm really excited. It's a very it's more like a DIY short film that is set to our music, but um I'm super stoked. It's about James to Arc. Um like goes through this like lights on fire, goes into a waterfall, becomes a warrior, there's a fight scene where I like fucking sword fight with Kamiko with a mace, and um it's fucking great. Uh the spirit of my father brought turns James Stark to a warrior. Anyway, of course, of course, so stoked. I listened to the animation, the filming, the directing. Um and anyway, big thanks to them. And we're playing with y'all and listless, and Willow knows my name, April 19th at the offbeat. Yeah. Oh, sweet, we're doing all ages. All ages, and a new big projector.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:38

I'm in the band. Yeah, well, uh pile up. Do you have plans?

SPEAKER_03 1:05:41

April nineteenth?

SPEAKER_00 1:05:42

I really my my new year's resolution was to keep a calendar this year, so I've done a pretty good job of it. But like, mostly because uh for the last couple years, I've just I just kept asking my wife, like, Hey, do we have anything going on on Saturday? And she'd be like, Yes, I told you. I tell you every day, and I'm like, All right. Thank you. And so I'm not trying to be like a more uh connection.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:04

The calendar app has changed my life.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:06

Oh this is good though.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:08

The alerts are really hitting lately.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:10

Oh yeah. When I get one, I feel good, I'm like, yeah, I put that in the calendar. I did this. Yeah. This is me. I'm responsible. I'm like, I'm a genius.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:21

A day ahead and then the two hours ahead.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:24

Oh.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:25

The top the bottom meme where like the the math is spilling out of the brain.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:30

Like this is such an ADD victory lab. It's like I set reminders for myself. Oh, alright. Well that that sounds sick. Um your music's uh wherever people have music out there, right? I'm not pretty available.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:48

Like just over a month ago on Friday, the 13th of February. Bless it be by name.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:56

Oh well, that was awesome. Uh thank you so much for it. This is good because I just um there's a bunch of different talking styles that I've gotten used to, and I try to adapt to it. And I like the kind of talking style where it's like we're not gonna focus on points, we're just gonna talk vibes. It's gonna be one long run-on sentence from start to finish with no downtime. It's like this makes me feel like I'm back home with my family, you know? Aw. I love that.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:21

It was I yeah, I I love a good ADD chat yap. Like, I could go all day.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:29

It's a vibe, it makes me feel good, you know. Sometimes the Portland people are a little too quiet, but you know, love them, love them. So that's all I got. Uh I don't know how to think I just say podcast.