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Jesse Wims Talks NBA Playoffs
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I have on Dishing and Swishing co-host Jesse Wims to discuss the OKC-Spurs series, how Wemby could break the game of basketball, and how to fix tanking with reality television.
It is brought to you by the band How Strange It Is. Their song is the intro and outro music, and I need to continue to remind remember to say that out loud because they gave us the song to use for free, and I don't mention it in half the episodes. We're also brought to you by Clubhouse Fantasy Sports. Check out Clubhouse.fun with a K. So K-L-U-B-H-O-U-S-E.fun. Thought that was a really fun. Uh fun little website to get. I nailed it. I nailed the Clubhouse.fun. They were trying to get it. I said, no, it's mine. That is my fantasy football app. I'm advertising it. I want people to play. But this is going to be, as if you've noticed on my reels or whatever, I've been talking about sports more. Actually, uh a little background war. I started making TikToks talking about sports. And that's where I initially got any sort of uh momentum. And that's why I started making TikToks or our short form videos, whatever Instagram reels talking about music. But the sports that have come first, uh, I want to talk about sports a little bit more. So I have unfortunately reached out to the only person I know that was willing to talk to me about this. This is famed podcaster from Dishing and Swishing and member of my fantasy football league. I believe the inaugural champion, which he does not let anybody uh uh you know live down, obviously. Uh it's Jesse Wims. Jesse, say hi. How are you doing? Hi, everyone.
SPEAKER_01Um, Kyle, it's great to see you. It's been a while. Um it's been a minute. I'm glad you emphasized the famed podcaster. Check me out, Dishing and Swishing, wherever you get your podcast presented by Orb Analytics. Um, I just want to start off by this. Kyle, I don't know what the fuck you've been up to. Um, usually how our relationship goes is we play fantasy football during the football season. We have a long break. You send me some texts I ignore about the rules of our fantasy football league, and I come back and you're just as famous as where I left you, which is not. Of course. Um zero. Now, turns out you're a famous music TikToker. Um, and I just gotta be honest, man, I'm livid. I'm upset, I'm angry. Uh, Michael Buble is commenting. I'm pissed. I don't, I'm mad.
SPEAKER_02I I need I I need you specifically and everybody else that has been in my fantasy football league. So uh a little backstory. Jesse and I, I used to write a very long email every week to our fantasy football league because we have a bunch of rules. Whatever. So many rules. Eventually I realized no one would read the email. No one ever read the email. Jesse like gleefully didn't read the email. He would respond back to the email saying, I am absolutely not going to read this. Uh so we just started recording a podcast because I figured, you know, uh why reach these illiterate people in something that they don't pay attention to? We'll just give them a podcast. Jesse was my co-host for the football podcast. Uh and uh basically, you I didn't I think you and the rest of the league need to realize that this is the worst thing that ever happened to all of you. Like, I was already demanding far too much of you, but I had no leverage back in the day. I had nothing to do. I had to like actively work with you guys to get you to play my game, to listen to me, to take me seriously. Now I do not need you guys. I am a famous person. I am better than you. Bigger number, better person. I need you and the rest of the league to realize that now I am judging each and every single one of you by how many followers you have online. So that means collectively, the rest of the league, nobody. You're all nobody's. I'm gonna get John Hamm like Bill Simmons did. I'm gonna have a league full of uh of celebrities, and you guys are all gonna get replaced one by one.
SPEAKER_01So uh Jesse, why shouldn't I replace you first? Um, well, as you already alluded to, I am a famed podcaster myself. Um again, check me out at Orb Analytics uh dishing and switching podcast, wherever you get your podcast. And two so far. And I figured that, you know, as as uh angry as I am at your newfound fame, I can at least leverage it for my own gain. Um and who else is gonna be just you know upfront and transparent about the transactionality of this relationship? You know, I'm just being honest and upfront. I think we can mutually benefit each other. I already own a microphone, you don't need to buy me one. Um, that's about all I got for you.
SPEAKER_02Uh you know what, honestly, uh compared to, I don't know, REL, pretty good. That's pretty solid. Uh, you do occasionally r respond to my text messages when I float uh ideas down for league stuff. Uh at the very least, uh it's been fun. Um I think my favorite part about the the fantasy football league is obviously we're working on building out the app. We have a whole team working on that now, uh, so I don't actually have to do any of the coding anymore, which is great. Um but it all of this music stuff blew up. I got big on Instagram doing this. I do not think a single member of anybody in the Fantasy Football League has watched a single video that I have done, even though I was like, hey guys, I'm getting uh I'm getting some traction online. You should check it out. You all went, don't care. No, I'm not I can see who likes the videos. None of you have ever liked a single video that I made, which is fine. I understand that. It does hurt my feelings in a very deep and personal way that I have to only admit and wrestle with at night when I'm lying in bed and it's dark. So uh you know, but I don't you don't even like music.
SPEAKER_01Um I like music, and I will say, you I mean, you tried to explain to me the format of the podcast and the clips that we're potentially going to be trying to farm. Um, and then you went, well, you you've seen the format of what I've done before. And I said, No, of course not. I haven't, Kyle. I've not seen anything of what you've done. Um I've been avoiding it like the plague. It's kind of been like uh you like I'm sure I'm sure the people who went to high school with like Jeffrey Dahmer, I I bet I bet they wouldn't have predicted that he would have gone on to eat people. But once he started eating people, if I had to pick someone that I knew who would have started eating people, it would have been you. And in in this case, eating people is giving out music takes on on the internet.
SPEAKER_02Uh valid, valid music takes. Everyone loves them, they're very smart, no one gets mad at me. I've never actually no one's ever gotten mad at me once for a music take, ever. Uh what do you think about that?
SPEAKER_01You're the Jeffrey Dahmer of internet music nerds. What do you think about that?
SPEAKER_02This is what I think about it. You guys want to know how my brain works. The second you said Jeffrey Dahmer, my first thought was I just read something about how one of the most famous audiobook readers uh alive is it might not be Jeffrey Dahmer, it is one of the like famed serial killers. And essentially, um because they don't have to pay him much money because he's in jail for the rest of his life, uh, and he has a ton of free time, he just sits and reads these books, he enjoys doing it. But because he's like a total sociopath, he reads everything with no inflection whatsoever. So he has no, he doesn't bring anything to the reading, there's no acting whatsoever. And people prefer that because it lets them like you know, paint the picture in their mind. It's just words, and it's like, oh, you need you need the vacant, dead stare of a convicted serial killer to really bring out the joy of writing. Yeah, and that's my first thought. That's my only thought on that, actually. So I I think that's why I make short form videos, is because uh the connections like that, that's what they that's what they want, Jesse. That's what they like.
SPEAKER_01The vacant, dead, monotone voice. That's what that's what we crave.
SPEAKER_02Yes. That's what we're craving here. You know, that's why I brought you on my uh podcast. Boom, rim shot.
SPEAKER_01I I appreciate you bringing me on. Um and your you know, your hundreds of listeners. I hope they, you know, if you're interested in basketball takes again, check out dishing and switching presented by or bang. You allotted me five. We just we negotiated this prior.
SPEAKER_02You allotted me five plugs. We're seven minutes in. We're seven minutes in. I don't think you can hold back. Uh I don't think you I'm bleeping out the sixth one. Okay. When you put a sixth one in, we're just gonna put you. That's fair. Uh anyway, I wanted to bring you on because uh obviously I really like sports. I've always liked sports. I think sports is uh cool and fun and interesting. Love sports. And uh people like immediate takes on basketball. I've been trying to find something, honestly, I'll I'll be up front with everybody here. The last couple weeks, I've been like, I'm trying to figure out how to make the podcast into something, you know, viable. The first couple episodes of this podcast, it was just like, I've got some attention, let's make a podcast, we'll figure it out later. Now I'm in the well, let's try to figure it out situation. And right now I'm just trying to do some sort of immediacy thing, a call to action. If you want to hear uh people talk about basketball, it's you ever listened to a basketball podcast from even like two weeks ago, it's kind of pointless. No, there's nothing to really gain from that. Uh so we're gonna get some reactions to where the NBA is right now. Uh obviously, Jesse and I have talked about the NBA multiple times. Uh, but last night's game, especially Oklahoma City versus uh San Antonio, they evened it up at two apiece. The Knicks are up three to nothing, and I will tell you, there are some members of my league who work closely with New Yorkers, uh, and they are blaming me in a separate group chat that I am being too nonchalant about the New York Knicks. Because I'm saying, like, well, obviously they should go as far as possible because they're New York Knicks, they're never gonna win. So the more they believe, the more fun it will be when they actually die. Jesse, do you think the Knicks have a legitimate chance against the winner of the series? Because it is kind of working out in their favor.
SPEAKER_01So if you would have listened to me talk like maybe a week ago, I whoever came out of the West, I was saying would have handled the Knicks. I thought at the time it could have been the Cavs. Obviously, that's over. Um, technically not over. What would be hilarious, actually, is if the Knicks do blow this 3-0 lead somehow. That would be awesome. So funny. Um, I doubt that's gonna happen. It's I think it's in the NBA, it's oh and 170 something in NBA history when teams uh trailbike three games to zero. Um here's what's here's what the issue is, Kyle. Um The Thunder and the Spurs are beating the shit out of each other. Yes, and they are going to continue to do so for what is probably gonna be a seven-game series. And whoever comes out of that is going to be they're already injured. So the Thunder's the second best player. Jalen Williams is already out, he's had like a hamstring injury for what feels like 18 months at this point. Um, AJ Mitchell, who's like their sleeper guy, another ball handler, he's out, and then on the Spurs side, Darren Fox is playing with an injured ankle, and Dylan Harper has something something that's they thought it was a hammy, then it wasn't a hammy, it doesn't matter. And then Wen Banyama is playing more minutes than he's ever played in his life, and I don't care how many Shaolin monk temples he visits. He's when you go from averaging 30 minutes a game in the regular season to all of a sudden playing 40 plus, that takes a toll on you in your first ever playoff run, and the Knicks are full of veterans. So, do I think the Knicks are gonna win? I'd say no, but it's way more viable than I previously thought it was just based on how much of a slog this Thunderspurs series is gonna be.
SPEAKER_02This is why I think they're gonna lose, is because everything it's so it's only fun if the Knicks fans actually believe they're gonna win, right? It's only fun, it's only real pain when they think to themselves, they have that moment, they go, honestly, this is the year. And they there was no point in that this entire season. Knicks were always like, well, maybe we can make a little bit of a run. They were doing that thing where they're like, oh, if we make it to the Eastern Conference Finals, I'll be happy, I'll consider it a good season. They never really thought, like, well, we're gonna win the title this year. And I remember saying at the beginning of the series, the only way for Knicks fans to really think they genuinely have a chance against these two teams in the Western Conference Finals is a seven-game series for them and a sweep for the Knicks. So now the Knicks have played eight games in seven weeks, essentially, and these other two teams are coming off the battlefield on the Western front of World War I with the gas masks and their Olympics. Like, I Jesse, uh Jesse, uh, I can't believe you would do something so unprofessional as to leave the room during the middle of my take. Anyway, all I'm saying is uh the Knicks fans, they need to they needed to genuinely believe the only circumstance that would have them think that they could beat Oklahoma City or San Antonio was the war of attrition in the West, followed by the easiest path to the finals ever, uh, with New York four-game sweep. But I think that this has set up a perfect situation where every Knicks fan went from cautiously optimistic at the start of the playoffs to now, I guarantee you, all of them in their heart of hearts thinks 1,000% we're gonna win the title this year. And they should think that this is the only chance the New York Knicks will ever have to win. This is the perfect setup. You absolutely have to win right now if you're a Knicks fan. You're never going to get it, it's never gonna be this easy ever again. It's never gonna be this easy ever again. But like, you know, I am a little, I'm a little nervous, not gonna lie. I'm actually a little nervous because uh I do not want to see the Knicks win. I don't want them to be happy. I never want Knicks fans to be happy.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it is it is an interesting thing though, because if it was any other city, this Knicks story is tremendous. Like it's this is like Oh, it's amazing. This this is the 2004 Red Sox. Like, this is if if it was any other city other than the obnoxious New York fans, like I think we'd all be rooting for the Knicks, to be honest. Um and I think I've come to terms to it, come to terms with it for uh uh a few reasons. A couple being I know some Knicks fans, um, who I begrudgingly like. Um secondly, they've been so they've been such an abomination of a franchise for half a century. Um one one title, surely, can't, you know, it can't ruin everything.
SPEAKER_02Listen, you say that, you say that, and yet every time Paul Pierce talks, every time Tom Paul Pierce talks about the 2008 Boston Celtics, I get a text message from you of like, oh my god, why is he still talking about this? You really want eight million New Yorkers to be Paul Pierce? You are literally creating an entire legion of people. Do you want to hear about how Jalen Brunson should run for president in five years? Do you want to hear that? This is what's at stake here, Jesse. I'm talking about for the good of America, on our 250th birthday, the New York Knickerbockers winning a title might be the end. That honestly might be the sign of the end times.
SPEAKER_01No, it's it's a fair point because I also you watched the games at MSG and like the like you have the celebrities, you got the Chalamage, you got the Ben Stillers, whatever. But then they have like the former players. And you got you know, you got your Patrick Ewings, who was you know, Hall of Famer, made two NBA finals, you got John Starks who was on those final scenes, and then you have like Stefan Marbury there who gets to sit who gets to sit courtside next to those guys who Stephon Marbury was a Nick for like the darkest of the dark ages in recent history for the Knicks.
SPEAKER_00Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Like those teams stunk. And then I can only imagine in fifty in 30 years from now what an actual NBA champion, Jalen Brunson, or for for Christ's sake, Carl Anthony Towns.
SPEAKER_02Carl Anthony Towns, I think, is far scarier. I think Carl Anthony Towns is a far more difficult situation.
SPEAKER_01Carl Anthony Towns is on record saying that when the Timberwolves won the play-in game, that that was a bigger achievement than some NBA franchises' titles. Imagine if he gets a title.
SPEAKER_02Oh my god, being the king of New York. I I mean the one good thing is that I think nothing will destroy the New York Knicks. This current iteration of the New York Knicks, nothing will destroy them in the future further than them winning a title. Once they have nothing like left to prove, imagine Carl Anthony Towns, an entire summer of living in New York City, having been the Carl Anthony Towns that brought a title to New York City. That dude is not gonna see sobriety for at least, I don't know, 18 months. There's no way his blood out like you could probably sell his blood on a black market as a very powerful hallucinogenic drug uh after you know three months of him living like this. There's just no way they're coming back and repeating. So, but like I said, this is this is the year. They have to do it.
SPEAKER_01Well, Kyle, you also have to consider this. This team's already won a title. This core. You're you're watching. Did they win the NBA Cup? The reigning NBA Cup champions are the New York Knickerbockers.
SPEAKER_02Oh.
SPEAKER_01So they would be the first dump. They won it this year.
SPEAKER_02Weren't they one of the ones that are like, we're not gonna hang uh we're not gonna hang it in the the rafters, we're not gonna hang our NBA Cup thing. And it's like, you guys are the New York Knicks! You've never won anything, just put it in the rafters.
SPEAKER_01I think there is a I think I'm pretty sure Adam Silver forced them to. Yeah, pretty sure Adam Silver is like we're you don't do you know how much Emirates money we're getting for the NBA Cup? You are raising that banner. I don't care. And it will say Emirates.
SPEAKER_02It's gonna say that. And that's the thing.
SPEAKER_01Wait, but who they you know who they beat in the NBA Cup? No, it was this I didn't watch it. It was the San Antonio Spurs.
SPEAKER_02Oh, oh my god, an NBA Cup rematch. That'll be fun. That'll be incredibly fun having all these announcers have to keep bringing up it's like, oh, by the way, this was the NBA Cup rematch. You guys remember the NBA Cup uh and just pretend like everyone watched that as well. I like when the NBA Cup happens, like when it's actually going on. I like the stupid courts and all that stuff. I like the pop and circumstance because I've been on the record for a while. Uh an 82-game regular season to go from 30 teams to 20 teams makes the regular season just a gigantic preseason. It's completely pointless. No one the teams decide whether or not they're gonna make the playoffs. You look at the drop-off from the team that's the last team in the play in to the first team in the lottery, and there's like an eight-game drop in both conferences, and it's like, oh, this statistically improbable thing just so happens to happen every single year. These teams that decide they're gonna make the play-in versus make the play. Yeah, whatever. Anyway, so the NBA Cup, at least putting makeup on that pig, sure, I'll watch it on a Friday night at a bar. Uh but I I I don't know. I just I I look at this team as like if you are a New York Knicks fan, this is the best chance you're ever gonna have. This is the best chance I honestly think any team since uh honestly, since uh the Toronto series against Golden State, when Kevin Durant tore his Achilles, and Steph got that's kind of what it feels like for Knicks fans. Yeah, I mean Steph was hurt, that team was absolutely deaf. But when Kevin Durant actually got hurt, it was like, oh, oh, the Raptors have to win this. Like they there's no way that they can't win this. That is like we are one awkward fall from Victor Wembanyama away from that scenario for the New York Knicks and Knicks fans, and they have to be salivating on this because going up against James Harden and this Cleveland Cavaliers team, the single most I have simulated 10 seasons in NBA 2K roster I've ever seen in my entire life. Just like, oh James Harden and Donovan Mitchell are on the Cavs now. Oh, cool, that's weird. I didn't I don't know what happened. Uh but like I don't know, didn't you say something about this Cavs team that will be memorable for me? Like get it into my brain because I just I don't even I think I I have blindness for this Cavs team. I don't see them at all.
SPEAKER_01Something about this Cavs team that will be that will be memorable. Um that's the most difficult question I think I've ever asked on a podcast. Most likely the last time we see James Harden in a conference finals will be in a Cavs jersey.
SPEAKER_02Well, I have heard my favorite uh little rumor mill uh that I heard about the Cavs is uh next year, LeBron James and then trade uh for Kyrie Irving. Kyrie Irving. Where the fuck else is Kyrie Irving gonna come from running back to 2016? What else are they gonna do? I'd watch the shit out of that. Are you kidding me? It's so I want LeBron James next year. There's two destinations for him I want to see him on. Uh one, I want to see him on the Cavs with Kyrie just because it's stupid and whatever. Go play with the Cavaliers or whatever. Or number two, go play with Steph Curry. It's like the last thing that would be fun for either of them is if they play on the same team together. I don't think the Steph Curry LeBron James led team is gonna go anywhere or do anything of value. But, you know, I don't know. I would I would like to see one more run from LeBron, but I I just I don't think he cares that much about winning one more title. I really don't. I think he's more like I think he thinks he's done what he needs to do. Uh and now it's just about patting stats and having a good time.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and I and I think, yeah, like you said, in LeBron's mind, he he's the best player ever in his mind. Um inarguably has the greatest career ever. Um I do think what he wants, I think it's I think it's hilarious that people who are reading anything into him saying that this might be his last season that we what we just watched. Um if there was ever gonna be a player who's gonna do a retirement tour, guys, it's gonna be LeBron James. Oh, if there's if there was ever a player who's going to do the retirement tour, it's gonna be LeBron James. There's probably gonna be a documentary film crew with him at every game that is his final season. There's not gonna be any of this going off quietly into the night, just uh posts on on X or whatever that he's retiring. So I'm I think he probably plays two more years. That would be my guess. Um, and the Sefton could be interesting. Um all of that to me, it like more so than the NBA Cup, that is what would make the regular season interesting, just see. Seeing the old folks of LeBron and Steph and Kyrie. Maybe they trade for Anthony Davis from the Wizards. They save him from the Wizards, get him out in Golden State.
SPEAKER_02No, I want I want this Wizards team to run it with this roster. I like I am I don't think there's anyone in the league or in the world who's more fascinated about watching a uh Trey Young, Anthony Davis, first overall, whoever they pick first overall. Like, I am fascinated by this team. I want to see them go and like make a run for whatever reason. I I don't think they get very far, but like, fuck it. Let's watch it. I um what has come out of the Wizards in in 20 years that was worth watching?
SPEAKER_01You know, um Bradley Beale's No Trade Class. That's probably the most infamous moment in Wizards history this century. Um or the Gilbert Arena's guns in the locker room. Those are probably the two most infamous moments.
SPEAKER_02That was huge. That was huge.
SPEAKER_01And the Paul Pierce bank uh bank shot game winner when he he called game. I call game, baby.
SPEAKER_02I call game. I do love um I feel like that there's a certain type of player that will happen every once in a while that like is beloved by like one team and then has like one final moment on like another franchise, and that franchise also kind of loves them forever. And like Wizards fans and Celti fans are the only two people that have a favorable opinion of Paul Pierce. Everybody else, even Clippers fans are like, we don't give a shit. That was like a Doc Rivers thing, we don't want to talk about it. But Wizards fans and Celtics fans are like he's clutch as fuck, though. And the Wizards fans are like, yeah, we love Paul Pierce. Everybody else is like, if he doesn't shut the fuck up, I'm never watching basketball ever again.
SPEAKER_01If uh if Paul Pierce just never touched a microphone post-career, he would be regarded as one of the more underrated players in NBA history. The problem is he spent the next two decades after that championship telling everyone how good he actually was. Um, and now everyone's sick and tired of him. So that's his if he would have just shut up, he would have been regarded as like, oh, remember how nasty Paul Pierce was going head to head with LeBron in his first Cleveland stint? And now it's like, who's this fat old guy at Carbone in Vegas getting lap dances? Like it's it's a problem.
SPEAKER_02I always say to people who complain about Paul Pierce and the 2008 Celtics for talking about winning a championship all the time, I'm like, if you didn't want them to talk about it for 20 years, you had to beat him. You had to beat him. Like, there was nothing about Paul Pierce and Kevin Garnett that said, hey, and you know what the fun thing is, is like, you know, I the next year, if Kevin Garnett doesn't injure his knee, that was a significant that was the best Celtics team, maybe I've ever seen. Uh, you could make a case for the one that won the title a couple years ago. That was a pretty well-rounded team. The O9 Celtics. But that Celtics, uh, yeah, the 09 Celtics, because that was the first year that Rondo was uh was a monster. But instead of making this a Celtics podcast, instead of going full Bill Simmons, uh, what are your thoughts on San Antonio and Oklahoma City? Uh I made a I made a little video last night after the game. It's like hand checking's back. You're allowed to play physical defense again. Yeah, it's back. Unk ball is on the table, everybody. This is the kind of basketball all the Unks have been saying, like, hey, I kind of miss watching these people literally wrestle each other off ball and bump each other every single time. 82 points from Oklahoma City. The Unks were right. Defense is back, baby. What are your thoughts?
SPEAKER_01Um, it is a great transition because I actually uh was planning on bringing up uh Wembinama's, you know, summer odyssey to achieve enlightenment. Yeah and part of that was obviously the Shaolin Monks, where he shaved his head. I think he learned how to meditate. The propaganda machine has already started where apparently he was driveling a basketball up a cliff for four hours because that would help you do anything in the NBA, I guess.
SPEAKER_02Um in his defense, in his defense, it was like four or five steps. For him, it's like four or five steps he gets all the way up the top of the mountain. So it doesn't take him very long.
SPEAKER_01It's it it was like, yeah, it was a few steps. Um I also love that his two his two uh two pillars of his summer were the Shaolin Monks and then just two hours of getting screamed at by Kevin Garnett on a field somewhere. For those of you who haven't seen the picture, it's just Kevin Garnett in a Bill Russell hoodie in the middle of the summer, drenched in sweat, screaming at Weminyama, who's just sitting there listening to what he has to say. Um it's it's Victor Wemanyama is I already think he's the best player in basketball. Um I don't really think there's an argument otherwise. If you've watched this series, it's 2-2. The two games that they've won, he's not only been the best player on the floor, he's been like head and shoulders the best player on the floor. Um what he's doing to Chet Holmgren, who at a time was kind of compared to Wemby, and it very clearly pisses Wemby off, like tremendously, that they were ever uttered in the same breath. Um along with SGA getting the MVP. I love how angry he gets. He does five things a game that I've never seen before, all the while, like picking Chet out of his literal ass crack at the end of the game and giving him back to the Oklahoma City and say, hey, here's your scraps. See an X game. Um and the hand checking, I so here's what I would say about that. It's in the playoffs, this is kind of what the sport has been. All the hand wringing about the NBA happens in the regular season because they just officiated differently.
SPEAKER_02Because it's a giant preseason.
SPEAKER_01And I because it's not a real regular season. I couldn't agree with you more. I couldn't agree with you more. It's it's too long, but guess what? It's never changing because Adam Silver the the NBA right now is at an all-time high with this Thunder Spurs series, and the NBA is is is thriving economically, all in spite of Adam Silver's best efforts to ruin this beautiful game that we love.
SPEAKER_02Okay, real quick, real quick, because I have uh yes, you know, I've been a hater for a very long time. You've heard most of my complaints about everything. When Adam Silver was initially put in charge of the NBA and as a commissioner, every single person called him the best commissioner in sports. They talked about him like he was completely changing how sports were gonna be run in the 21st century or something like that. Every single person has shifted completely 180 on him in the last two years, really. Uh now that everyone says he sucks and he's terrible. And that's fine. You were allowed to change your opinion. You're allowed to change your opinion. I would like to hear some of the people that thought he was wonderful now at least come out and say it's like, yeah, I used to think he was very good. At least say, like, I thought he was good, now I think he's bad. What happened is everybody changed their tone to like, uh, I've always kind of hated him. It's like, no, you didn't. You all told me he was a genius when I complained about the exact same shit that I complained about now. Yeah, I would the fun thing about consistently complaining about the same shit over and over again is you watch everybody else change around you. I am I am the center, I am the north pole of being a huge hater. Uh and I watch the world spin, I watch the globe spin, I watch the 24-hour sun uh go around. Anyway, that's all I wanted to say about that. Uh I will let's talk about Victor Webinova for like two seconds. No, no, no, hold on. Oh, go ahead, go ahead, go ahead, go ahead. Respond to my hating.
SPEAKER_01Um, the issue now, Kyle, and I'm and I'm I'm I'm experiencing this firsthand, is um you already had this persecution complex pre-fame of always being right and everyone else being wrong and everyone else being inconsistent and you being the only consistent person on human on the face of the planet. Um that's true, yeah. I'm I'm waiting, I'm trying to figure out where are you going here?
SPEAKER_02Are you just complimenting me? You just say I'm right about stuff. Wow. Great podcast.
SPEAKER_01Thanks for coming on, Jesse. When people were complimenting Adam Silver when he took over for David Surrett, I'm I I also was pro-Adam Silver for a lot of his tenure. The I think the most accurate description of the Adam Silver experience is he's a peacetime commissioner, and once it's wartime, it's a problem. And he may not be as well equipped as our, you know, may he rest in peace, David Stern was. Um, when Adam Silver inherited the NBA, he had one the first decision, the first time we ever really saw Adam Silver do anything was the uh Donald Sterling situation. And it was a very easy yes, you got on you, you are on record being racist. We're gonna kick you out. Everyone can clap their hands. You did it, Adam, you're the best. And no one liked him as an owner anyway, before that. And then we brought in Stephen Ball, Steve Ballmer, the richest owner in sports, and everyone was really happy about that. Um, yeah it was also the peak of the LeBron Heatles, LeBron Cavs versus the Warriors, Dynasties. People were very enraptured with the storylines of the NBA at the time, so much so that people were a little more willing to overlook the kind of issues with the regular season being too long, which has been too long for the entirety of the NBA's existence. However, it's been exacerbated now with the changes in the pace of play in the three-point shot, thanks to Stephen Curry and the Warriors and the Rockets teams, and then even our Celtics teams are the And the nerds.
SPEAKER_02And the nerds, the analytics.
SPEAKER_01Basketball has changed over like rapidly over Adam Silver's tenure, and he he's not adjusted. His Adam Silver's solution to everything is let's create another in-season tournament. To the point where they were even they were floating around an in-season tournament to get the number one pick. I'm like, we can't just all be tournaments, Adam. I know you love the Premier League, but we also need to change something else here.
SPEAKER_02The I the problem with Adam Silver is that he has to operate on the same logic that like financially incentivizes the NBA. He is a mouthpiece for the this is the thing that I've been saying as as long as anyone will hear me. It used to be you had the fans who would buy tickets and watch the games, you'd have the owners and you'd have the players. And there was this kind of triangle of checks and balances. I genuinely think the way that the TV deals work these days and the amount of money that a TV deal pumps in for 10, 20 years, it has essentially eliminated the fans' response like the fans don't have an immediate check on the power of the owners and the players because the TV deals locked in. And it also, most of the TV deal revenue has come from the fact that everything else on TV is unwatchable. Everything else has gone to streaming. And sports like just got every sport got bigger. It didn't really matter what sport you were, every fucking sport got way bigger. Uh, and what's that resulted in is it's just this fight between the players and the owners of who gets a bigger chunk of this contract, this TV contract. And it's where the the regular season schedule thing comes in. Uh, the thing that drives me insane is where now everybody admits that the regular season schedule is definitely too long. The solution that everyone keeps bringing up is still the insane, like, let's cut like 10 to 15 games. And it's insane to me because it's like, how does that address the problem other than to give them more rest? Because the problem isn't that they're being asked to play too many basketball games. That is a problem. The problem is that none of the regular season games have any meaning whatsoever. They don't matter. The teams know they're going to make the playoffs after like two months into the season, the rest of the season, nothing really is happening, you know? Like the Spurs knew they were gonna be in the playoffs. How how late into the season were they pretty much assured they were gonna be in the playoffs?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean, the Spurs won 60 games. Like the Spurs by New Year's knew that, you know, if unless when Banyama got injured, they were gonna make the playoffs. But what I the only thing I would argue against is I don't think that's unique to basketball. Like, I think like the Seahawks knew they were gonna make the playoffs pretty early last season.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I would you say though that there's a categorical difference between uh a football game's like meaning just in terms of the fact that it is only 17 game seasons.
SPEAKER_01That's why football is king. You cannot you cannot recreate the significance of one football game in any other sport.
SPEAKER_02But you can get closer to it. You can address the problem. That's all I'm saying. That's why I've been saying for years. The only real solution is the series idea of you play three games at a time, and the winner of uh two out of the three games gets one point. That is the way you fix the regular season. You can play 81 games, there's 27 results as opposed to 82 results, 27 results makes each result matter more. That's the only way to fix this. You have the same number of games, you have less results. Everybody's happy, but you know, we're not ready for that. We're not ready for that. So I continue to plant my flag here in the truth, and I'll wait for everybody to catch up catch up to me. Uh thank you for that. You're very gracious. Speaking of catching up. Speaking of catching up, can anybody catch up to Oklahoma City Thunder or uh or San Antonio in the next couple years? Because it genuinely feels like these two teams are a standard deviation away from the rest of the NBA. And they're both like San Antonio is the youngest team uh I can remember since like Oklahoma City to be this far in the playoffs. Uh and then Oklahoma City, I believe, I'm not 100% sure, but I believe I owe the Oklahoma City Thunder a couple of draft picks in my upcoming fantasy football draft. They just have the rights to everyone's draft picks for the next 10 years.
SPEAKER_01Um so here's what I would say. I don't I think we've done this every year since 2019. Well, sorry, we've done this every year since 2020, probably. Um, and we've had a different champion every season. Every team that's won, we've talked about their window and how maybe we have a new dynasty coming, and then the next year comes and then they lose. Um, I'd say this Thunder team is better than any team that's won since the Warriors, um, and they're also young. However, I think we talked about with the officiating differences in the playoffs. SGA is just not the same player in the playoffs that he is in the regular season. He's still really good. Neither's Chad. Chet Holmgren, brother. Um just the the all NBA teams just came out, by the way. He somehow made third team All NBA right before getting half of the league didn't qualify. Correct. That's a fair point. Um yeah. It's the the Chet Holmgren thing is I I think Chet Holgren is a solid NBA player, but this idea that he's gonna extrapolate to this playmaking, scoring option, offensive engine guy, I just don't see that for him. Um so basically what you're saying is we're gonna need you know to ride this SGA window as long as we can, who's an excellent player, but when you look at the discrepancy and all the you know the Oklahoma City stands who are talking to me about how he's the most efficient guard since Michael Jordan, in the playoffs, he's just not. He's I think he's shooting under 40%.
SPEAKER_02I mean, look at the history of look at the history of James Harden, you know? Obviously, Harden is notoriously like he notoriously plays worse as well. Like SGA at least plays at the same level. He's just not getting as many calls. But Harden, it was always this mix of like he just something happens in his head, he plays a little bit worse, but then he also doesn't get a the calls that he became dependent on in the regular season. It's why he is sort of he's gonna go down as one of the most histor uh notorious playoff chokers. Uh fair or unfair, whatever you want to say. Like that is that is his legacy at this point, is that like he's a guy that phenomenal in the regular season and just not as good. Wokey somewhat justified the trade from Oklahoma City because it's like, yeah, but although he would have been perfect as the third option on the Oklahoma City Thunder team uh ten years ago, whatever it was when he got traded. Uh but I think the big thing with uh Oklahoma City is honestly, it's the Chet factor. I I kind of think about it. Like, I remember last year thinking like, wow, Chet Holger got into the perfect situation. Uh he just has to do like a couple of things, play a little bit of defense, score a little bit. Uh this team is perfectly constructed where he doesn't really need to do anything. I'm kind of starting to feel that maybe the opposite might be true, where it's like because he wasn't asked to really do anything, he was the number two pick in a draft. Most of those guys come into a shitty situation where they are be they are immediately the man. They're the guy. He is the number two pick of the draft who became the third best player on a team, and he kind of plays like a guy that doesn't really know how to be anything but the third best player on the team. I I just I wonder if it's stunting his development to be on a team that's this good.
SPEAKER_01He definitely, it's a fair argument. I also I wonder if we kind of got seduced. Here's what usually happens in the Wemby situation is the outlier. A lot of times what happens is these these viral high school kids go go crazy online because they're seven feet, they're handling the ball, they're copper and durant, they're shooting threes. They're playing against high school kids, and then they go to college and they're doing against college kids, and then they get to the NBA, and what usually happens is they're too slow to play the perimeter, and then they're too weak to play inside. Wemyama has distorted all of this. Usually it bowl bowl is the norm for what happens. That's usually what happens when you have Fawn Maker, for those of you who remember that guy. That's usually what happens here. It's not Victor Wemanyama. And Shet is like the apex version of the former of what I was describing, where he's still a very versatile, effective defensive player. But specifically in the matchup where you're playing him against Victor Wembanyama, who is everything and more the way he was advertised, he's Kevin Durant mixed with Kevin Garnett, mixed with Kareem Abdul Jabbar, mixed with Hakim Olajuan, and he's also an asshole who happens to also hate Chet Holmgren, like personally. Yeah, it's just a perfect series. Personally takes it seriously. This is not this is not the series for Chet Holmgren, but the issue is if you're gonna be in the ilk that we regard you of like an all-NBA player, we can't have this. Oh, it's not your series. Every series has to be your series where you're at least effective and looking aggressive, especially when their second best player is hurt and they need more score. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Fair or unfair, Chet Holmgren's career is going to be defined as a comparison to Victor Wendy Allah. Personally, that sounds like hell to anybody. Like, no one should have to deal with that. But like that is the case. He's like, he is Darren Williams and Chris Paul. Like Darren Williams is a fine point guard. It's just early on, there's the Darren Williams versus Chris Paul thing. So now when you think of Darren Williams, you kind of think of him as a bummer. It's like, oh, what happened to that guy? It's like, dude, he had a fine NBA career. No one thought he was gonna be one of the greatest point guards of all time. It's not his fault that he got compared to one of the greatest point guards of all time. Uh, but like that is sort of the Victor Webanyama distortion is already kind of starting to happen on a league-wide scale. This is one of the reasons that I love basketball, is because every once in a while a player comes out of basketball, the way that the game works, where it's like one guy has so much gravity, can change the game so much. But like every once in a while you see a guy come out and you go, if this guy lives up to his potential, the game of basketball is now broken. It does the rules of the game, the way that this game is played, does not account for a guy who yesterday, watching the game at my sister-in-law's house, uh, just decides uh to take the buzzer beater with you know five seconds left, dribbles to the middle of the court, is triple covered, but it doesn't matter because nobody could reach up that high and just launches a half court three, switch, bang, absolute nothing.
SPEAKER_01As he shot it, I was like, that's going in.
SPEAKER_02100% he knew it was going in. You watch something like that and you're like, okay, yeah, all right. My first thought as like a as like a cap guy is all right, Jalen Brown under max contract is gonna take up as much of the salary cap as that thing that just happened right there. And it's like, not only does he is he the best player in basketball, potentially right now, is he potentially on the short list of greatest basketball players of all time? He is now also on the list of most uh underpaid athletes in the world just because the way that max contracts work. And that is the weird thing with basketball. It's like I honestly see them, they could potentially change the way max contracts work in the NBA just because Victor Webanyama is so valuable. Like he should be getting 80% of somebody's salary cap.
SPEAKER_01He's unbelievable. And he's he's 22, and I discussed this in in NBA history that like the guys who have the gravity that you're describing, and in particular the guys who had all this hype coming into it and exceeded it, it's really a list of four. It's Wilt, it's Kareem, it's Shaq, and LeBron. And now five with Wemanyama. Like it's not even Michael Jordan. Michael Jordan went third in the NBA draft. Like people did not expect that from him. Obviously, he became that, but just describing the guys who were like, okay, this guy's a freak, he's probably gonna take over the league, and then does it's five guys now with Victor Wemanyama, who's 22 years old. Like that half-court shot last night was insane. Go back to game one in the first overtime when he just pulls up from the Steph Curry spot at 35 feet from the rim to the minute left. He's seven foot six.
SPEAKER_02He's playing on a uh Fisher Price Tyke's first basketball hoop. His dunks, we were talking about it yesterday, when he jumps to dunk, he reaches entirely vertically. There is no up motion when he tries to dunk, it is just reaching across like he's about to drop something in the trash. It's unfucking real. If you don't watch basketball, like he's one of the few things where it's like even if you don't watch basketball, you watch him play and you go, something weird is happening here. This is unbelievable. Um, but yeah, I agree. I think you know the term generational talent. I saw this on Twitter the other day, it gets thrown around a lot. Like people called Cooper Flag a generational talent. That is not a generational talent. I think the guys you mentioned, that is the list of generational talents. And like even going back to like Shaq, the whole story with Shaq is that like he didn't want to actually dominate constantly. Like he wanted to have fun, win a couple titles, be the best player in the world. But like if he had the drive that Wemby had, if Shaquille O'Neal was running up the hill dribbling a basketball at 7 a.m. it probably would have broken basketball because even an 80% motivated Shaq won three titles, won a one uh you know had a three P was the most dominant player of his generation. Like if he had that drive, uh I I don't know. I the sky is the limit with Wemby, but like that even feels lame. That doesn't feel like enough of what's happening. Like doesn't describe basketball is his now.
SPEAKER_01It's you know and because that's the thing too there's plenty of guys who we've seen come in uber talented who even the LeBrons like you said with Shaq even Wilt didn't win Wilt kept getting beat by Bill Russell. Wemby has a whatever is going on whatever however he was molded whoever his advisors were when he was in France um he wants every moment and he seems so aware of what every moment means and seems to be aware that like if if I win a title now at 22 I I have the real potential to be regarded as the greatest player ever and he actually is it's clearly kind of seeking that out already. Most of the other guys that come to league they're just like I want to dominate I want to win up what I want to get a contract they don't seem to have the presence of mind to even be able to handle conference finals against the Rainy champs where like you're all your other guys are young too. Like they're like they're everyone in their starting five other than De'Aaron Fox is like 22 years old. So it's the leadership the mental he's mean which I love which is the Kevin Garnett meeting apparently just KG just taught him how to not be French in an hour. It's just you're gonna learn how to be just an American aspect people are mean. Yeah but the different kind they're passively mean yeah now he's he's learning he's learning the aggressive mean he's not just like spitting in your he took the Rudy Gobert out of spit in your drink he took the Rudy Gobert out of his tone and added some Kevin Garnett you know Southern to his tone. And it's and it's clear like the the game there's a clip that went viral of SGA getting the MVP trophy before game one and it's from the crowd and it's a fan recording it and you can see Wemby sitting on the bench and he doesn't move a muscle and Steph Castle's trying to talk to him steam coming out of his ears and then he goes off and and puts a 41 and 24 on the reigning champs in his first ever conference finals game at 22 years old. It's just most guys it's understandable game it's understandable if you're gonna shy away from those moments and he just doesn't he he he he he lunges himself he lunges himself at every moment it's it's unbelievable man.
SPEAKER_02The thing uh so uh we can turn on the TikTok camera for this one. Um the difference between LeBron James and Michael Jordan is that Michael Jordan built his brand off an unquenching thirst of wanting to win and LeBron James won titles because it was good for his brand. I think ultimately at the end of the day LeBron James is a better player than Michael Jordan is right I think LeBron James is like he could do things on a basketball court I made a reel a while back that was like what is the trade package all time for Victor Wembanyama right now? Like what teams even in history could potentially trade for him and like one of the ones that was offered was like uh peak Heatles LeBron James and Dwayne Wade plus draft picks for Victor Wembanyama and it's like yeah I can see that because LeBron is the only guy that I feel confident could legitimately cover all five positions. Like defensively and then offensively he's just the smartest basketball player all that stuff physical peak. But it did feel like he very much first and foremost wanted LeBron James the brand to beat Jordan the brand and was like well I guess I have to win some titles now. And then that's why I think when he won in 2016 when he beat Cleveland the his Lakers tenure has not been about him maniacally trying to win titles with the LA Lakers. That has just not been the LeBron James Lakers tendency versus I think uh you know Michael Jordan all he cared about was winning there's the the last dance thing where he's flipping coins in the locker room with the locker room attendant trying to beat him on that because he's a like all good red blooded Americans a hardcore gambler. But the thing with Webman Yama is like you see sometimes you have a guy with this maniacal uh desire to win and to get better. Jordan was that but he's only 6'6 he's not seven foot four uh Tom Brady's big thing was like all he cared about was winning but he didn't have the physical talents he wasn't Patrick Mahomes you know Patrick Mahomes is a a more physically talented player Brady just wanted to win more uh Victor Webinata is the rare combo of like has all of the physical tools to be an absolute freak. Like he's started putting that little throw it off the backboard to dunk it to yourself like as a self-pass which honestly when he does it's like all right we should probably L on this this doesn't seem this doesn't seem fair. You stop him and he's like ah redo redo I'm gonna redo it and just that's insane. But uh what's it called uh you see it with like guys that he's one of the few people that has the actual physical talent to be the best player in the league even if he didn't care all the uh the most out of anybody that plays basketball but he does seem to care the most out of anybody that plays basketball. It's why it's like oh my god are is anyone else gonna win in the next five years if he doesn't get hurt. You know this team around him is also just good they're obviously good enough to win now like who's gonna win basketball in the next five years outside of the San Antonio Spurs if they win it this year.
SPEAKER_01No it's I think it's fair um to your LeBron to your LeBron point the only part where and I'm not a you know I'm a Celtics fan so I obviously have my issues with LeBron James more so because he just destroyed my team for so long. I think it's it's somewhat of an unfair comparison to use the Lakers stuff as a comp just because like at the Lakers point of LeBron's career Michael Jordan was you know smoking cigars and not oh yeah yeah like if he wanted to win so bad maybe he would have stayed in better shape like LeBron has his entire career. Maybe he wouldn't have been smoking cigars on his way to the arena. I think the science was out on cigars being bad for you if you're an athlete by 1994.
SPEAKER_02But they're cool looking and he looks cool when he smokes a cigar Jesse I'm telling you right like if I told you right now it's like lesson we can go smoke a cigar with uh with Michael Jordan or we can go sip tea with Michael Jordan which one do you want to do? I mean I'm obviously going to smoke it. And also the thing that I'll throw out there is that like when when Michael Jordan retired it was unanimous that he was the best player of all time. Like he he wasn't anticipating somebody in the future in the way that like it kind of seems like LeBron is is like oh I need to get all these uh I want all the stats I want everything to be mine. The big comparison that I point to though is like I kind of look at it like when Brady left uh New England he picked a team that was gonna win yeah that I mean that the the the title he won with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers that team was absolutely loaded it was not uh Tom Brady winning the title he was 43 years old you know he wasn't the best player in football he picked a loaded team the thing with LeBron is he had already established that when the going gets rough he goes to a better team and the fact that he stayed on this Lakers team for as long as he had he didn't just go and cherry pick I it's just to me that says more like he wanted to live in LA which by the way I get if you are that famous there are like three cities in the world where you can have a somewhat normal life one of them is LA LA is one of the only places where LeBron James can go to eat and it will not shut down the restaurant. When he goes and does that in Cleveland that's it he can't do anything you know so like I get that part of it. It's just I don't know I did I I didn't get the sense that these last couple years he was maniacally trying to win and I I really don't think Jordan ever really thought of anything other than winning. I think he he honestly my feeling is he retired at the point where at the time it seemed like he had an unimpeachable resume and it did it took a LeBron James to dethrone him on the conversation of like best of all time. So he wasn't necessarily wrong.
SPEAKER_01The the Jordan stuff is way more organic the arc is way more organic. We also lived in a different time where you know like if Michael Jordan was on Twitter would we think differently of him I think so if there were if there were TikToks of Michael Jordan doing doing the you know the fat boys who get drunk and play golf and he's shitting on the Memphis hotel we might feel differently about him. I think the the LA stents once he won the the I'll put the bubble title in 2020 I think he was like I've done everything I need to do I've won a title with the Lakers but to the past few years Michael we saw Michael Jordan in his 40s and he was playing for the Wizards and I don't think it didn't look like he was trying to maniacally win. It looked like he was on a retirement tour.
SPEAKER_02I I kind of disagree I would you look at his stats before he hurt his knee yeah uh because what were you like four months old in 2005?
SPEAKER_01Fun fact actually my first NBA basketball game my first in-person NBA basketball game was Michael Jordan at the Fleet Center at the time in Boston in whatever I was probably five years old in 2001 or 2002 or whatever it was and I saw a I have a memory of Michael Jordan in person. I will always be grateful of my for for my parents doing that for me.
SPEAKER_02I think he genuinely tried to win I think his body just broke down he he was averaging like 25 points a game in that first year back they were clawing their way back into a playoff season I think the fact that he picked the Wizards it also was a different time like so then but when LeBron's making the conference finals like two years ago is that not trying to win at 41 you know or 40 or 39 or whatever he was listening I'm not saying that he wasn't good.
SPEAKER_01I'm not saying that he hasn't tried to win all I'm saying is this is the longest stint he did in any franchise this is the longest one he ever did was staying with this Lakers team right correct uh come on man come on this the guy that left Cleveland and ripped their heart out of left Miami I agree for LeBron ripped their heart out for LeBron's standards this is 100% different than any other stop but I'm just saying even on Jordan's standards if this is not trying he did better than Jordan ever did of the same age he did I'm not saying that all I'm saying is honest question who do you think wanted to win games more LeBron or Jordan?
SPEAKER_02Like you really think LeBron has the same level of psychotic attachment to the idea of winning a basketball game as Michael Jordan a guy who is famously insane about that. That's all so here's how I would describe it and you kind of alluded to this I'd say Michael Jordan was unmatched in his maniacal desire to win that game I think LeBron in a weird way is unmatched in his maniacal desire to be considered the greatest basketball player ever 100% 100% that to me when I say when I say he's kind of more concerned about his brand like he wanted the brand of LeBron to beat the brand of Jordan uh part of that is like you know part of that is just being like I need to be considered the greatest of all the and I honestly like I think if they play one on one right he destroys them I think he destroys Jordan. I don't think it's really particularly close. Maybe not one on maybe even not one on one actually because that's like a different type of basketball it's just Jordan could score in an era where a legal deal the illegal defense rule is the goofiest thing that any sports league has ever done. LeBron is the kind of guy where it's like you literally could put him on any team in any roster construction. This year I thought was really fun when he took the back seat to Reeves and uh Luca and he became basically the best version of Draymond Green at like 41 years old. It's like dude that's amazing he can do he can do that. He's just he's a he is the uh the queen on the chessboard type of thing. Uh the difference is with Victor Wembanyama Victor Webanyama is not a chess piece. Victor Wembanyama is an actual gun that you brought to a chess game that you can use to shoot other places like what I'm saying LeBron was the uh epitome of the ideal basketball player Victor Webanyama might ruin the game of basketball in the same way that Neo ruined the Matrix for the machines.
SPEAKER_01Yeah yeah yeah yeah no that that is I um that I said this in this before game one I said I was like I I don't I've been watching basketball up until that game and that game was a different sport that I had never seen before.
SPEAKER_02It's wild. Yeah and this uh Oklahoma City team is a perfect foil to it because it is like the epitome of modern basketball. If you were to do a roster construction of like how to win in 2026 it would be the Oklahoma City Thunder. You know this is a a very well constructed team they have the MVP and it's like all right so on this hand we have a 10-year plan of masterfully working the salary cap and all the mechanics of building a roster in basketball and player development and all that stuff and on the other side we have a 7 foot five guy and fight and it's completely even I love it. It's the best I love sports it's the dumbest most unfair thing in the entire world but like you can't help but watch that and just watch how this it's like watching Kitchen Nightmares. It's just something you can't turn away from right now.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely and you see Popovich is at the games watching apparently Darren Fox said post game last night that after they lost game three he said Popovich has been around obviously he had a stroke not too long ago he doesn't seem like he's in the best shape at the moment he's in his I think late 70s or if not 80s at this point. They said Pop came into the locker room after game three excuse me and basically said that they were playing like bullshit they said it was it was the first game it was the first game that Pop had come into the locker room immediately post game usually it's like just Mitch Johnson their head coach debrief and whatever and Pop stormed in and was like that's not how we play basketball and we saw them absolutely blow the doors off the thunder last night. So just having also behind Weminyama the organizational stability of the San Antonio Spurs like a model franchise in that league and arguably the greatest coach of all time in that league having his DNA throughout that franchise it's a fair question. I this is the closest but again I'll just say that we've done this every year with the team and the and the Spurs haven't even beat the Thunder yet um they they were my pick I picked the Spurs um before the title um but I think the Thunder are still alive unless if if Jalen Williams and AJ Mitchell are out for the rest of the series I think that's a really tall ask for them just because I think that's so much to ask of Shay given all the defensive guards that they can throw at him and Wemby on the back line. Yeah um but we'll see I mean it's 2-2 and I think that most of these games have been pretty compelling.
SPEAKER_02That hamstring stuff uh you know as a guy who plays fantasy football as much as we do uh a hamstring injury uh for a wide receiver I was always like if somebody got like a hammy pulled in a preseason game I was like alright he's done for the season they just don't heal unless you take like three months off for whatever reason uh I will say because we are we've I think we've gone over an hour here and I like to keep it an hour I will do um I uh I will try to do a thing at the end here where we workshop a take and then I make a little take into a video okay uh and I'll just walk you through my process because I I got the take that I want to do it's a basketball related one I'm trying to do some more basketball ones. But it's gonna be in revolving around uh uh what's it called? Uh when you mentioned that uh what's this Popovich is still involved with the Spurs uh it's very obvious that Victor Wemanyama told the league hey I want to go play for the Spurs I want to play for Pop and they're like yeah sure whatever whatever the fuck you want dude we're we'll move the team if you want we'll move it to France whatever you want to do. And so uh with all the talk about lottery reform right so I'll tell you right now we'll we'll I'll show uh people how the sausage made the take is that the solution to the lottery reform is not any of this convoluted bullshit that they're doing with lottery odds and changing the odds just let the commissioner pick the top three picks make the corruption legal just make it cool make it legal make it so that Adam Silver comes out there and can go alright so next year this team's picking first this team's picking second this team's picking third you're picking fourth I don't know but pick a team that that sucks I wanted to pick Washington but you know they actually won the lottery this year. But some team that's like blatantly tanking like Utah it's like Utah you guys were tanking you didn't put a good product out you get to pick fourth this year get fucked. But they just picked the top three picks the commissioner has to stand by it too. Like he can I want to see the commissioner come out and say Zion Williams is going to the Pelicans because look at the fucking valuation of the franchise. All right guys the value the franchise went up by a thousand we're fucking business he's gonna play on the Pelicans get fucked. Whatever just like own the shit put the corruption out there so we don't have to do this weird thing where it's like here's this convoyed rules that work 90% of the time and then every once in a while Victor Webanyama wants to go play for Popovich so then we just throw all that shit out the window and he gets to go play wherever he wants to you know I just I want to so that's the take is is uh I feel like I put it in there. So to make a good take Jesse have you ever done any short form videos? Um no well why not don't you have a podcast?
SPEAKER_01Are you supposed to be podcasting yeah they just post we have an intern who posts clips oh my god how do you get an intern? Never mind orb analytics money baby gotta get that orb analytics money again check out dishing and swishing wherever you get your podcast presented by orb analytics that is dishing and swishing with me Jesse Wims your vibe navigator and my co-host Mickey Swish oh baby nice nice pitch you're getting good at that uh anyway good take good short form video right this is what I always say that is a good take trying to keep it to a minute you gotta keep uh you gotta keep their uh attention you know you gotta respect your audience if you're trying to talk for over a minute you have to have something really important to say I like most people aren't gonna watch anything that's over a minute long.
SPEAKER_02You have five seconds to earn 15 seconds and if you get to that 15 seconds they most likely will finish the rest of the video. But you have five seconds to get their attention to get the next 15 seconds. So in this situation uh I don't know I what what do you think is the most uh attention getting part of the sentence that I just said about the the the uh commissioner picking the top three picks I mean the the hook is it should just be Adam Silver should be able to pick where the draft picks go or something along the lines Adam Silver should pick where who gets what pick something along those lines or or maybe something with corruption Adam Silver should be allowed to be corrupt I think the line you gotta say is make the corruption legal make the corruption legal in the NBA because now all of a sudden what are you talking about what what corruption and why like it's just it got that'll get me the next 15 seconds and then the next 15 seconds we talk about the history of the NBA because you gotta string them along just a little bit and then the other part of it is cadence. You know it's like I I you've seen my you've seen me talk normally it's pretty similar to this but there is a rhythm to the way you're supposed to talk where the words themselves operate almost percussively right percussively you see that it's like this is hard skill man this is something I work on a lot hard consonants moving your hand a lot shaking things back and forth being a little dramatic you know like be 15% more of who you are at all fucking times uh and that's how you get these people's attention so all right I'll try to get that you want to try giving uh a a 60 second uh clip on this you gotta really believe this though though like you have to believe that I'm right or or the other way to do it if we want to do uh a a two person one uh call me an idiot for this take make fun of me tell me I'm stupid and dumb if you don't if you don't agree with this thing and then I'll defend it and that that gets us to a minute.
SPEAKER_01So well let me why don't I try I'll try and do it. Yeah. This is just off the this maybe try and do it. And then if you like it you keep it if you don't like it you tell me why and then you do it. Yeah let's let's see it let's see it okay so uh pick a time on the the top where it's recorded because you only got a minute so just be aware that you only have a minute after that and uh whenever you're ready just fucking rip it the NBA should make the corruption legal all this chatter all this talk about how to fix the NBA tanking problem who cares you know what I want I want Victor Wembinyama an organization like the San Antonio Spurs because he's Victor Wembinyama and I want to give him what he wants the next guy AJ DeBanza wherever you want to go let's talk I'm open for business as Adam Silver whoever you want to be in your as you're building your brand in the NBA talk to me and as a matter of fact the other teams let's make this like the apprentice game show style you pitch your case to me you tell me why you deserve the number one pick I don't care if you just made the finals and you're the Oklahoma City Thunder. I'll hear you out let's make this live a live televised event instead of the pink to happen behind some mystery curtain that nobody gets to see let's just have it all out in the open no more conspiracy theories let's just see definitively who the NBA wants to get these picks.
SPEAKER_02First off phenomenal great uh so this is uh this is my content brain thing working Because I want to show people like how this thing works. What I would do is I would do exactly what you did. Come out, you came up with your hook, make the corruption legal at the beginning. I would even drop the part about like the NBA. Just start with make the corruption legal in the NBA. Right? So it's like the most you literally have very little time to get their attention. The other part, and this is actually thank you for doing this, because this is uh this shows exactly how this thing works. The most interesting thing you said, you got to halfway through, which was let's make this a game show, right? Yeah, yeah. So now we have our hook. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Now we have a hook, now we have the meat. Yeah. So I think I I'm gonna let you do rip this thing again. Okay. What I would do is start with the line, make the corruption legal, and then you have to get to the pitch for the the the game show as quickly as possible. You can call it Shark Tank. That's good. That's good. All right. Right? So you say the hook, you get into that. Once you're at like the 30-minute mark, now you can actually just talk about the thing. But the first like 30 seconds, the first five seconds, the first 15 seconds, the first 30 seconds, that is you're selling them on watch the rest of this thing. So I like this. I think you should do this. I think this should be your take. And then we'll decide us what song to put over it as well, because that's that's part of the brand or whatever. Okay, cool. Uh but yeah, just uh pick a time, take a deep breath, and fucking rip it, baby.
SPEAKER_01This is so I should still start with make the corruption legal is what you're saying.
SPEAKER_02Make the corruption because here's the thing too is you start with make the corruption legal, then you start talking about uh the tanking reality TV show, and then you combine you you you connect the dots. And then I then I explain. So you give them a point, yeah. So you give them a one point and a second point on a map, and then you walk them between the two points, and that's how you get people to like really pay attention. If you just tell it like directly, people will space up and okay, that's all.
SPEAKER_01All right, this is good.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Alright, deep breaths, deep breaths, deep breaths, yeah. Get ready.
SPEAKER_02Shake it up, baby, shake it up.
SPEAKER_01All right, all right. Make the corruption legal. Turn the NBA draft lottery into a game show, turn it into Shark Tank for all I care. Are you tired of the ping pong balls that happen behind some curtain somewhere? We have no idea what's going on. Make the commissioner stand on business and just decide who gets number one picked based on pitches. Televise it to the world, sponsor it by Peacock for all I care. Have the tanking teams meet with the commissioner, with the camera crew, and explain why they deserve it. Utah, I'm sorry, you don't deserve it. I didn't like all that shit you pulled throughout the season. Washington, we can have a discussion. Nation's capital, a lot going on right now. Maybe you deserve it. You've been through it after a while. The Gilbert Arena's gun controversy in the 2000s. You know what? Let's write that wrong. Let's move forward. Turn the NBA draft lottery into a game show Shark Tank style. We'll call it Shark Tank for all I care.
SPEAKER_00Beautiful, beautiful.
SPEAKER_02See how fucking easy this shit is? Do you see how easy this shit is? Been doing this for six months. I gotta die. I told you. That was great. I think that's gonna do good. We'll see. What what song do you want to put on then? So for the song thing. Do we need rights? One thing to remember. What's up? Do we need rights for the song?
SPEAKER_01Or does it matter?
SPEAKER_02No, no, they're on TikTok. They're on uh Instagram and all that. And so you can use a minute of a song. Oh, okay. Any song you want. So uh there's two ways to go with the song. Like one are three ways to go. One is literally just it's a song you like and you wanted to play it and you just had an idea, it doesn't matter. Those ones are fun because people try to figure out why I put it on there, and I'm like, it literally was the song I was listening to, there's no connection. Number two is like a kind of tongue-in-cheek thing. Yeah. Like if there's a song that has the word tank in it or you know, something NBA related, uh, and number three is kind of like an obvious pick. I I don't know in this situation, just something in this case it would be like something that you like that's like vaguely basketball related. Most of my fans tend to be um indie rock guys, but if you want to go like the rap hip hop route, if you want to use a different genre, that's fine as well. It might bring more people in. This is gonna be more of a sports take than a music take anyway.
SPEAKER_01How about the song that LeAngelo Ball put out?
SPEAKER_02Oh! Rob not.
SPEAKER_01I might swerve on that corner woe. I might swerve on that corner woe. I think it's just called swerve. That's beautiful. I think it's called swerve. Let's see what it's called. I think it's called I think he just goes by jello. Swerve. Of course. We can figure this out, but it's something, it's it's I know the I know the lyrics. Swerve, I'm just googling the lyrics. Swerve on that corner, woe. If you know that song, you know what I'm talking about, alright? Obviously not. Jesse, look at me. It's called Who I Am and look at everything that I've talked about. It's called Tweaker by Jell O.
SPEAKER_02Oh, beautiful.
SPEAKER_01I might swerve on that corner.
SPEAKER_02So we'll stick that in. Uh we'll we'll I'll clip that. I'll I'll post that. Do you have any social media accounts that I can uh tag you in? Um nothing. This is a time for plugs, by the way. This is this is where you're I know you've plugged your show five times, but this is when you're supposed to plug. So go nuts.
SPEAKER_01I'm on Substack. That's where if you check me out at Vibe Navigator, if you want to check me out on Substack, that's where I post the podcast, also along with Spotify, Apple Pods, anywhere you get your podcasts. Um, other than that, no, that's pretty much it. Orb Analytics is on Twitter. Check out Orb Analytics on Twitter, on Instagram. Um they have a TikTok? They have a TikTok.
SPEAKER_02They gotta link this on the TikTok, or I'm not putting it out.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, they have a TikTok. Yeah, that's where you yeah, put it on the Orb Analytics or link the Orb Analytics TikTok because there's other clips of me on there already.
SPEAKER_02So yeah, I think that's the way to go. And then uh yeah, check out Orb Analytics NBA discussion. Yeah, dude, it's not that hard, right?
SPEAKER_01My favorite part is what you described to me when we're on the phone a couple weeks ago, where you don't really have to land the plane, it's kind of just that first 30 seconds is important, and then you kind of just fizzle out at the end, it doesn't really matter.
SPEAKER_02It's so hard to think all the way through a minute. Uh and it's like honestly, if I get you for 30 seconds, the algorithm like does not give a shit what you if you finish it or not, really. Like the the big viral ones have a good finish, but like you're really more concerned with getting the point out early. Um I've been wanting to do this with people for a while. Just like walk them through because it's like this is there's I've learned a lot of shit about this, and I I have nowhere else to share it, so I might as well share it with you. But you should fucking make an Instagram page for uh your your podcast, and you can post this on there. I'll I'll I'll fucking retweet it or not. No, that's good. Or maybe I can make a TikTok. That's enough. Make a TikTok. Do whatever. I don't care. You do whatever you want with this. This is information I give to you for free. Thanks. Uh Jesse, we'll probably have you back on if there's more NBA news. This was fun. I like talking about basketball, and I want to I want to have more sports stuff out there. I'm gonna try to get some people for more sports things this summer. Um, anyway, uh, thank you to House Strange It is again for letting us use the song. Uh thank you to Orb Analytics for letting us have uh Jesse and District and Switching podcast. Check them out where we get podcasts. Uh and that's it, podcast! Podcast, uh, and then we're gonna do that.