Blake of Today Talks about Being an Authentic Content Creator

I'm joined today by Blake Kasemeier of Blake of Today, where we talk about his history as a touring Hardcore musician, relating to Garden State throughout your life, trying to find authenticity in short form videos, and at the end we workshop a video take. 

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:26

And uh I'm working on intros. Uh but speaking of intros, the music you just heard is from the band How Strange It Is. They have a new album coming out soon, so pay attention to that. I'll probably I'll probably talk to Jordan when that comes out. Uh you guys don't know who Jordan is. He's the guy who wrote the song. Uh, but he's also uh the guy whose house I had my wedding reception at, so uh we talk. That's a lot of information for that part of the podcast. I am joined today uh by Blake Cosmeyer, who is a uh I guess a very famous short form media guy, uh Reels guy, TikTok guy. I've been watching your videos for a while, and then uh you liked one of my songs. I don't I don't know exactly what you did, but I I did my thing where as soon as somebody with a lot of followers likes anything that I do, I immediately reach out and like, hey, do you want to be on my podcast? And Blake said yes. So I have him today. Blake, how's it going?

SPEAKER_02 1:18

Easy win. Yeah, first of all, I I can I'm so stoked to be able to start this with a compliment. You pronounced my last name better than um uh any graduate. I graduated uh in my high school graduation. Uh I went to UC Berkeley, graduated with honors there. You you nailed it better than they did uh at the uh at the Greek theater um in front of thousands of people. So I I really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00 1:45

Cosmeyer.

SPEAKER_02 1:46

I I appreciate that. That's that's uh even that level of effort is uh is more than you know people have done for me in the past. Uh yeah, dude. Um I I I you know I tell people that I say tell sad stories on the internet. Um and uh I've you know truthfully, like yeah, I've been trying to um make the internet love me since the internet has existed. Um take taken many swings, uh blogs, live journals, um d podcasts, and a bunch of different stuff. And um the the thing I like to say is, you know, yeah, I I've been trying to make the internet love me since the internet existed. Uh as such, I've um you know created a lot of stuff on there, some of it good, most of it bad, um and the vast majority of which went unnoticed, thankfully, um until like relatively recently. And uh in the past uh few years, say the past four years, um people finally started uh paying attention to what I was doing. Um think, you know, in part to whatever, you know, uh algorithmic power that existed that pushed, you know, you you've seen the magic of of the algorithm. And um it giveth and it taketh away. And um, and so I had a you know, the the classic story that I tell is I had a dumb joke about the show um Inkmaster um that went viral and overnight, like it it I I just cut like a dumb little like used a trending sound, cut a silly little meme in my kitchen as when I was living in Berkeley, and the video got like three and a half million views in 24 hours. Yeah, and then uh I for the first time since I've been making stuff, I had I had followers, you know, a few thousand people who said, at the very least, I saw something that you make and I'd like to see something else that you make. And uh and so I I just like cool, okay. Well, well now that I've got them, I'm going to try and tell them my stories. And so I would kind of alternate, um, like I would do some like silly meme thing, and then I would tell a story and then silly meme thing and then tell a story, and then very quickly the stories began to outperform the silly meme things. Thank the Lord, otherwise I would be dead. I I I'm so lucky that the that that things fell in my favor. Um and so yeah, and so I I uh I just kind of steadily um been chipping away at that um for for the past four years. I have a substack, uh everything is under Blake of today. So um if you want to find me, that you can find all of my stuff on there. So yeah, I've had a substack for a few years. I've really been going at it in earnest recently um on a YouTube channel. Um and yeah, that's that's kind of where I'm at right now.

SPEAKER_00 4:30

Nice, man. Yeah, I mean, uh, I think this is gonna be one of those episodes that uh is gonna end up being uh at least for now, a good amount of talk about social media success and like making these short-form videos. Because I tell my friends all the time, it's like if anyone starts talking to me about how I do this, is like I have almost not non-stop thought about making these little videos for about six months now. Like, that's how long I've been doing it. I just have all these thoughts and I can't like share them with people because it's kind of it's kind of a niche subject. But like that experience you're talking about, like I haven't had anything to do with a million views. I have one video that like did a million cumulative on TikTok, and that's because Zach Braff reposted it. So shout out Zach Braffend of the Wells.

SPEAKER_02 5:09

What was what was the take?

SPEAKER_00 5:11

Oh, it was just uh the greatest music video that was ever made was the first five seasons of Scrubs that lead up to the point where Dr. Cox kills all those people and they play How to Save a Life. Like the How to Save a Life scene, phenomenal, well acted, beautiful. If you've watched the first five seasons of Scrubs, that shit hits like a brick, and it's uh and that one uh it it did well organically, and everyone kept tagging Zach Braff in it until eventually he commented on it. So I ended up like I've talked to Zach Braff, uh Bill Lawrence, the showrunner, yeah uh, and Daniel Faison, the guy who plays Turk, have all DM'd me at some point uh because of that. So it's a wild thing, especially because I learned from this that my wife's background of her computer, and she listens to this podcast, she's gonna hate this. In middle school was a picture of Zach Braff.

SPEAKER_02 5:58

So uh Well, he has I don't know how old you are. I'm 42. Um I'm sort of elder millennial.

SPEAKER_00 6:04

Um 21. I'm 20, I'm young and oh okay no, no, I'm 36.

SPEAKER_02 6:09

Okay. So 36. Okay, cool, cool. So you're you're you're you're at the cut you're you're a millennial.

SPEAKER_00 6:17

Yeah, I think it's definitive.

SPEAKER_02 6:21

Yeah, the power that Zach Brath wielded over uh the our culture, the the indie culture and and the musical tastes of our generation is is irresponsible. I mean the the Garden State soundtrack um was such a uh I mean it was it was in when I was young, I was you know in my early twenties when that came out. Yeah. And you could not, it was inescapable. I could not go to a coffee shop or sit in someone's car without hearing, you know, New Slaying by the Shins or uh Such Great Heights cover uh by Iron and Wine. Like it was just it was, you know, the the David Foster Wallace Kenyon College commencement speech, like the the music that he dictated was the water that the fish, the millennial fish swim in.

SPEAKER_00 7:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:14

Uh that is the sound of the extent to which Brooklyn, New York, you know. Yeah, exactly. To the ext- I mean, I I do I remember when I went to I used to be in a hardcore band we toured, and I went to the restaurant in Brooklyn where they shot uh the opening scene in Garden State where he's in the restaurant, and the woman goes, they're like, you know, everybody's vodka Red Bull. She's like, Do you have bread? He's like, No, we don't have bread here, and she's like, Well, give me some fucking bamboo, I'm starving. Um, like we went to that restaurant in Brooklyn because it was like it was like the equivalent of some kind of like mecca. Oh, yeah. Like it was like, oh yeah, we went to the place where they shot something from Garden State. Um and I I live in LA, so like that's a big deal because like this is where the movies are made.

SPEAKER_00 7:57

Yeah, that's wild, man. Uh yeah, you uh shout out to that graph. Uh when I I I started talking about that movie a little bit, and I realized like that a lot of people like to come out and it's like, oh, that movie you gotta rewatch it, it doesn't hold up. And it was like, I ended up re-watching it, and I was like, no, this I think this movie hit perfectly in the way that I watched it. I watched it like when I was in high school, and then I've watched it now in my 30s, and I think if I'd watched it when I was like 24, 25, that it really captures that period. Like if you went home after college, there's this weird spot that a lot of people in my millennial generation where they like lived at home for six months or a year, and it felt like this holding pattern between the real world that you were about to start and like uh your childhood or whatever, and you're just kind of stuck in your childhood home trying to figure out how do I make enough money that I can pay rent somewhere else. Uh and I feel like he nails that in that movie, but if I'd watched it at the time, it would have been too on the nose, and I would have felt self-conscious about relating to him. But now I can look back and be like, oh my god, yeah, I remember being that young, or like I remember feeling that way. And it's just I think it's a great movie. I like I genuinely full chest say, like, I think it's a good movie, and I think everyone's being a little too harsh on it, partially because like you said, it was omnipresent. It like defined culture in a way that was almost too cliche. I I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 9:15

I I liked it though. It was, I mean, it's it's one of the last it's actually so funny. I was talking to my wife about this about like the the monoculture. Um, and like it was it was kind of one of those on the edge of the monoculture uh films um that still it was still felt like independent and and unique and um kind of like ours to a small group of people, but um yeah, again, like it was just so everywhere. I but for contacts, like saying it was two on the nose, like I literally was waiting tables in a corporate Chinese food restaurant and uh I uh was in a a touring band that was like I was desperately trying to make it, right? Like how Zach was trying to be an actor in that movie.

SPEAKER_01 9:58

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:58

And um and my hometown was uh like 60, 70 miles up the coast from LA. And like it was like literally it's like a small town in in like like Jersey, you know what I mean? Like I went back and I was like, wow, this is like this is my life, and uh and so it was so on the nose that it just allowed me to be completely self-indulgent and like uh like no no self-awareness. It didn't, I was not self-conscious at all. I was like, oh, I feel seeing this is perfect.

SPEAKER_00 10:26

That's awesome, man. Uh hardcore, how long were you uh playing music for? What what made you get into the hardcore scene? What made you think like yo fuck it, let's go for it.

SPEAKER_02 10:34

Yeah, yeah. So I um I I was terrible at school um and I I never I never liked it very much. I did like um I liked uh like student government and stuff. I was kind of heavily involved in that. I was involved in some parts, but just like the actual uh like learning and and regurgitating knowledge piece, I was very bad at, uh particularly like in that format. And so like when I was in school, probably like my sophomore junior year, my mom gave me I I had been listening to hardcore music and punk music like for my I was very fortunate to have very hip parents and I listened to cool music um very early on. Um I'd say like Green Day was probably like the you know the the gateway drug patient zero.

SPEAKER_00 11:15

Oh yeah. Green Day is a phenomenal place uh for that stuff to start. I remember being in like middle school, early high school, and getting my hands on Doogie and just being like, I don't know, you just you bump that stuff at that age, it perfectly vi reverberates with teenage uh not anger, uh energy. It's like that teenager energy. You just kind of feel like you're bouncing off the walls, especially if you're not the best student. School can feel like this like, all right, what the fuck am I doing here, man? I gotta move.

SPEAKER_02 11:40

And and argue are I would argue that like Dookie of all of their records holds up the best, which is silly because it's the one that has the the worst name. But um it like it is like if you listen to all their other stuff, I would say you know, yeah, I don't know. It just it really does um it's a good record. Like it is like I can I can listen to it now unironically. I can listen to it with my kids in the car, and they like it, and it's it's like, oh wow, I actually like enjoy this, versus kind of like anything after that, where I feel like I I I don't I hate that like sell out title to be like, I mean it they're definitely writing pop bangers after that. Um music made for like sort of the TRLs and stuff, but it is uh anyways, it it holds up, man.

SPEAKER_00 12:30

Um well on that point, uh I think about this a lot because there's a there's a lot of bands that I I really do like just their first or second album, and I understand that's like I'm a huge hipster on that in a millennial culture. That was like a red badge or whatever. But like there is this trying to define your sound thing that like when you find it, like when you hit it for the first time, right? There is this sort of like uh excitement of like, oh man, this actually sounds good. You know, you've probably discovered this when you started playing music. The first time you wrote something that felt like your own thing that was also good that you thought other people can there's this energy to it, and I think sometimes these bands, like in Dookie, uh they found the Green Day sound, but it's still like raw. There's it's not a lot like fully calcified yet. Eventually they figure out how to replicate what makes a Green Day song, but like even that process of just writing a Green Day song, they there was no Green Day songs to write for Dookie. There was the invention of the Green Day song, and I feel like you can hear that in certain bands and in certain types of music. I know it's weird, there's it's not like you can't pin it down, but I feel like you can hear it.

SPEAKER_02 13:35

Well, you have your whole it's it's kind of the classic saying, right? You have your whole life to write your first record, you have six months to write or a year to write your second record, and so that's why that's why the first record is about the dream, the second record is about the road, and the third record is about the divorce. Um because like that's kind of what's happening in your life. And uh, and if you if you go back, you like, oh wow, this is really true. Like Noah Khan's first record um is like is about the dream, it's about like this like dissonance between like how he feels about his home and and and wanting to be seen and feeling alienated, and his second record is now about the the distance, the great divide between what it is to be famous and how he's perceived back in his home. And it's like, oh, that's about the road. Like, that's about the experience of being a famous person. And the first record is about the experience of wanting to be a famous person, and so like um, and I hope that his his third record is not about his divorce. I hope he's very happy.

SPEAKER_00 14:35

Knock on wood, baby, knock on wood.

SPEAKER_02 14:37

I mean, I hope he's unhappy to the extent that he still writes the sad songs that I love, but like that's always the like that's always the crux, right? You're like, God, I want you to be successful, but I also want you to be miserable enough to make music that I love.

SPEAKER_00 14:47

Um, yeah, yeah. I always think that like is a lot of the music I listen to. If you've watched it, it's like it's kind of sad, it's kind of whatever. And then like every once in a while, these like sad, grungy people will like get happier and then they'll write happier music later, and I won't like it as much. But I always think I'm like, I honestly that's the best case scenario. Eventually, I was gonna stop listening to that band anyway. So, like, if I'm not listening to it because they're too happy to write the kind of sad song I want to listen to while I walk around Portland, Oregon in uh November, it's like that's fine. Awesome thumbs up, that's the best way out, man.

SPEAKER_02 15:17

Yeah, I mean, even uh Maynard James Keenan, uh love him or hate him, uh, he like one of the things I he talked about once was people were like, oh yeah, like you know, these songs like Prison Sex and like like sober and like this stuff. And he's like, Well, if I was still writing songs like that, then that song didn't really work. Like it was supposed to have been some sort of catharsis, and like, well, it is a cool song. Uh, if I had maintained, like, if I, you know, continue to live in the headspace. I mean, and obviously, like Trent Reznor is very similar as well, right? Like Pretty Hate Machine, um, downward spiral, like he was like, you know, literally lucky to still be alive given what he had gone through. And I don't necessarily feel like that that level of um that level of of suffering is necessary for for your art, but there are these situations where it happens and you're kind of like, oh man, like I hope we don't get that much better.

SPEAKER_00 16:09

Yeah, I I always feel uncomfortable talking about like the like uh life circumstances around somebody that writes like a sad song or something like that, as though like the bad thing that happened to you or the the difficulty of your life created the good song. It's like, no, this is a talented person that is describing a difficult situation. Yes. Uh I always think of that song uh Real Death by Mount Erie, which is about his wife dying after and I cannot I've never made it through the whole album. I I physically can't do it. It just it breaks me. But you know, when people talk about the whole song is basically about the idea that it's like this is a song. The song would have existed whether or not my wife was alive. Like the death is a meaningless part of this. I can just make music, and that is like the most powerful part about it. Uh, you know, I don't want to learn anything from this. I love you, absolutely devastates me every single time I listen to that. And I do it like once a year just to remember that like I love my wife and she's still alive. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:08

I don't know if you ever, it's like um Mount Erie is a band that's sort of like dancer in the dark, and that like I watched Dancer in the dark once. I bought it on DVD because I needed to, because I needed to have some representation of it, because it was like a very important piece of artwork. Yep. And then I I've never watched that movie again. I like will not, I cannot. But I'm like, people ask me about I'm like, oh yeah, Dancer in the dark. Brilliant. Yep. And it's like I was I think I was like 19, and I will never do that again.

SPEAKER_00 17:40

Oh yeah. There's a lot of art out there that I'm like, this is uh a wonderful thing that I'm glad that I watched, and I'm never ever getting near it ever. Uh I want to get uh let's get onto the happier stuff. So you got you're listening to Dookie. Uh sorry.

SPEAKER_02 17:58

Yeah, so um somewhere in in mid high school, my mom bought me um the this book called Get in the Van, which is uh Henry Rollins' um tour journal from his like first years of Black Flag, and that was just sort of like the prototype. I was like, oh wow, like or uh the archetype rather. Like I saw that it had been done, and I was like, I just want to do this. So um kind of like I, you know, I was playing music in in high school in little bands and stuff. Um mostly the I was actually mostly playing in like it's funny because we we I think we initially connected over Limp Biscuit.

SPEAKER_00 18:29

I was like playing um, fans have been the best. Every time I make anything that references positively to Limp Biscuit, everyone in the comments is like very, very excited about it. So go Limp Biscuit, man.

SPEAKER_02 18:41

Um it yeah, they're I mean, for better or worse, uh they're so they like that's the kind of stuff I was like probably dabbling in because I lived in this small town and I I very much loved like hardcore and and stuff like that, but like the closest thing I could get to it was like these guys playing like new metal, and I was like, Well, they'll let me sing in their band, so I'll figure this out. Um and I'll try and sway them, you know, I'll I'll put on like a refuse CD and maybe they'll like new noise, and then maybe we can and it never ended up catching. But then I I when I was 18 I moved to LA and I got very lucky to join a band that had already kind of been in motion. Um and I was friends with all the guys, and they just happened to be like kind of going through a transition, and um and like the it was like the perfect, like this is what they wanted to do, and this is what I wanted to do, and so you know, we spent the better part of five years bopping around the country, um booking shows on MySpace and on uh a website called uh Book Your Own Fucking Life. And um because it used to be there used to be a there was a zine um or like a book that was called Book Your Own Fucking Life, and it was um a basically like a white pages of all of the DIY venues in America. Oh, that's awesome. Yeah, and so like kind of right around the the MySpace era, um, this it went digital, and so you were able to just like call or email a venue in, you know, like Kilby Court in Salt Lake City or um Graceland in uh in Seattle, or um you're just able to just kind of like dial it, dial somebody up and then uh and then try and figure out, oh hey, like you know, and then after you go once, you've meet you've met some local bands, and then you create relationships and you trade shows, you make sure that you book them on shows when they come through LA and became this whole like very like I pat your back, you pat my back, this really cool, I mean, DIY culture.

SPEAKER_01 20:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:37

Um, and so I spent spent, yeah, like about five years doing that. Um, band moved to Nashville, lived in Nashville for a while, and then we kind of imploded uh dramatically on the road.

SPEAKER_00 20:49

Um, yes, that's the best way to do it.

SPEAKER_02 20:52

Uh we were all good friends, and we were all still good friends after after the band broke up, but it was just kind of a a very like stark realization that no none of us really wanted to be there anymore.

SPEAKER_01 21:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:04

And like that happened to have happened in Salt Lake City, and you're like, oh, we are like literally so far away from anything else that we to go home. So we had to play like you know, the rest of the tour.

SPEAKER_00 21:14

And oh yeah, yeah. It was uh Salt Lake City is in the middle of nowhere, the West Coast is so far away from everything all the time. It's brutal, dude.

SPEAKER_02 21:20

Everything is a six-hour drive.

SPEAKER_00 21:22

Yeah, yeah. Um, but yeah, man, I I love hearing that of the like uh early internet, even just like having a book of uh DIY venues, because it's it's the same thing now, just in a different format. Uh I don't know if you've uh checked out freekseen.diy. It's I I had the they're like trying to recapture some of the old forum magic, and they you know it's like a DIY website that looks like something from 2003. I had the guys on my podcast earlier, but if anyone's listening, go check out that podcast. It was a really fun podcast and uh freakscene.diy really cool place to find exactly what you're talking about. Because the thing that I love about the DIY world is that It is entirely like relationship build. You reach out, it almost always starts with like asking for help. It's like, hey, we're playing this thing. I need help with this thing. You'll find people that will help you. And then it really only works is if once you're done receiving that help, you start turning around and trying to help as many other people as possible. And it's like it that system uh it weeds out the people that want to do that life where it's like give and take. Uh if if you just take, take, take, eventually you'll get pushed out of the DIY scene because you're not people know you're not gonna help them out in any way. You're not, you know, doing your fair share. But like that kind of stuff, uh, where now it's like I talk to bands all the time uh who are talking about like trying to come up through Portland because they see my little videos, and it's like, oh well, I don't book anything because I'm me, whatever. Uh, but I can put you in touch with this guy and this guy and this guy and these people, you know, mall brawl reds right now in uh Portland is uh this one girl, Coral, just knocking on the doors of places that could host shows and seeing if they'll let her do a hardcore show there. And it's awesome. It's like people like that, it's like, yeah, I wanna I want them to get as many cool bands, as much attention as they possibly can. But like, have you found that the DIY scene, like, do you still participate in something like that anymore? Or is it just sort of like uh that was my time, now I have kids and I just don't have the time for it anymore?

SPEAKER_02 23:20

Uh uh a few things. One, like I try to bring that energy to other things. So like being a content creator uh on the internet is like it's vastly different, but the lessons that you learn in that context are like are yeah, are there certain so like one being generous in the way that I was generous then is just significantly easier now. So it's so much easier just to watch someone's video and comment and reshare something than it is to be like, oh yeah, cool, like I'm gonna put you guys on at this at this show or blah blah blah blah. And you can do it at scale. So it's like super cool to be able to just be like, oh, I see something. I do it all the time. Like, I'll see a video. Like I did it um with this band called Center Mid recently, where I heard a song on um so what all this is say is like I like to be very generous with my platform for things that I like. Um, and it almost like I I I try, it's almost to the other end where I recognize that I because of the size of my platform, which is it's big uh for some folks and it's small, very small compared to other folks. And so like I try to be realistic about that as well. Um, but like for example, yeah, like this this band Center Mid, I heard um there was like an edit on TikTok over a uh over the How about Them Apples clip from Goodwill Hunting? And I was like, what is that song in the background? Like this has to be a popular song. I just don't know about it because I'm old or I this is probably something that somebody else came up with, and I've I this this band definitely has a whole catalog of songs. Yeah, and so like I went and I was like, what's this audio? Who is the oh there's like no and I went to look other other clips. I eventually found the band on TikTok, they had like like a thousand followers and they had like four videos. Oh and this song was an audio on one of their videos, and I was like, what the fuck? So I went to my Instagram stories and I was like, hey guys, help me. I'm an old uh man on the internet. I want to know who this band is. Um tell me everything you know about this band, and nobody knew anything about that. And everybody's like, we and they I played the track, and everybody's like, this song is so fucking good. And then a few days later, I um they didn't have an Instagram. A few days later, they started an Instagram, they have like 200 followers, and they put that clip up on their Instagram, and I post it to my stories, and I say, guys, we are on the ground floor. Let's fucking blow this band up. Oh, that's awesome, man. And today, that was a couple weeks ago. Today they have 21,000 followers.

SPEAKER_01 26:03

Ooh, that's awesome, man.

SPEAKER_02 26:04

Yeah, and they released the song, and it turns out the song was just um somebody literally doing a voice memo recording at in a garage with like three dudes playing guitar and singing. Oh and and now that song has over a hundred thousand downloads or a hundred thousand streams on Spotify. So it's like it's you're like, oh shit, like this is and like I don't I will I can't take um credit for all of that. They wrote an amazing song. Yeah, I I'm you know, I the day that I posted to their store the thing in my stories and try to get people all pumped about them, they went from th like 300 followers to like 1300 followers, right? So that's okay. Maybe I drew a thousand people to them, which is fucking sick. But you know, the the rest of that is like momentum that they generated and created on their own. But to have able been able to play like a small part in something like that and to be able to lend my platform to it, I was like, guys, please tell me this is not AI, or these people are not assholes. Like, I think I I've like I've done my due diligence to the extent that I can, but please tell me I'm not this is not AI. And like that, the guy who whose band it is like responded to me is like, I am a real person, and then like friends of them who know them in real life were like, We were in the garage that night, this actually happened, and I was thinking, thank God. Because that's the thing that I'm terrified of is like what is the moment where I share the thing that's AI.

SPEAKER_00 27:21

Yeah, I mean it it's it's bound to happen at some point. You're gonna get got by these things. Like, it's it's the nature of the beast is that they're trying to get you and you can't stay on top of everything forever. But like, I love this idea of like um, you know, I talked to a lot of people that uh Portland, there's a lot of people that make really, really good music, and they have they just don't want to be part of the internet at all. It's like they want to stay completely offline on it because they see a lot of people just see like the final result. The people that have you know two million followers that uh have essentially kind of turned themselves into an AI product. They are a thing that like you could replace with an AI tomorrow, and no one would really notice the difference for some of these people, you know, not everybody, whatever. There's levels to this.

SPEAKER_02 28:03

But like uh I talked to Hudson Freeman, who did uh Dude, I was just gonna say HUD Dog, like that, like he did you talk to him about how many fucking times he had to play that song?

SPEAKER_00 28:12

Yeah, oh my god, he he basically just told me he's like you know, I wrote it uh and it got big on guitar talk, and then I realized I just I gotta keep making videos on this thing until it takes off. But the thing for him now is like one, he's trying to do it professionally, and if you are, you have to look at the landscape you're in. If everybody is sitting at home watching short form videos, and that's where they get their information from, that's where they get new stuff, uh you gotta if you wanna be in that world, you gotta play in that world. You know, you can't uh you can't just decide like, oh, I want it to be 2002 again, and all I have to do is post on MySpace. It's like, no, that's that's not the case anymore. You gotta figure out some way to at least like give people an opportunity to find your song, and then all of a sudden this phone recording that you have uh gets a little bit of momentum. It's like once it hits one time, it it's I don't know, it's a wild, it really is a wild feeling the first time something like starts to take off.

SPEAKER_02 29:05

Yeah, but it's that's that's so funny. I was gonna talk about Hudson Friedman because like he's like the prime example. Like I I remember I I dude, I took a screen recording of that uh that video um of him playing that in a cornfield or whatever, and like used that on one of my videos because it was he hadn't released it yet. And I was like, this is this song is so good. That's and like I was like so I would yeah, and then like because it wasn't an audio yet, so you know, like there's there's the argument that like people are like so hungry for it, especially when it's that good, that like you have to you have to promote it like that. Like, yeah uh my my another friend of mine, this this woman, uh Abigail Osborne, um, she's like a country singer kind of, and she's putting out a song right now, and I'm like, I've seen probably 15 reels of her doing this thing, and then just today I saw somebody like giving like giving her coverage, and I was like, that's just what it takes, you know?

SPEAKER_00 30:04

Like, yeah, it's just you gotta you have to do it until you get one, and then when you have one, you have a little bit more freedom to do like you were talking when you were starting to make your short form videos, you you did meme stuff, and then you wanted to talk about this thing that you wanted to do, you know, you wanted to tell your stories and stuff like that. But it's like, yeah, you needed the memes to get enough uh of an audience to do your stories that like they weren't just gonna immediately get ignored by the algorithm because uh I'm in the same boat as you. I've done a bunch of stuff online that has been completely ignored, and you realize like, oh, it is so much easier for everything online to completely ignore you that like once you get a little of attention, you do have to kind of think of like, all right, this attention is a thing, it's sort of this force you're dealing with. What do you want to use it for? And it's like, you know, whatever will be sustainable for you, really. Some people it's it's different, but you know, like you're saying, you wanted to tell stories.

SPEAKER_02 30:57

Yeah, what's cool is that you can go into the well now. Like, one, like, I know so many kids who are young creators, um and they knocked it out of the park the first time they stepped off to the plate, and then they're in a position where like they don't really know the experience of um making it without being seen. So like they don't know the the experience of like creating in the dark and just doing it for fun. Uh it's always had some sort of social expectation attached to it. You know, they maybe like they hit it out of the park their first their like third video or something, you know. And then they're like, oh cool, like this one, this is what doing this is like. Because every time you step up to the back, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 31:37

And every time you make a video, just like a million people watch it. That's what videos are, you know.

SPEAKER_02 31:41

Yeah, like and and like which is like not and and and they're very talented and really, really skilled people, but it's a different, it's totally different perception because I um uh I went to this um I went to this creator retreat uh a couple years ago uh in Switzerland. Um it was sick. Um you know sick, yeah. Uh sponsored by Patreon and uh and the Swiss Tourism Board. And um Jack Conti, the uh founder of Patreon spoke and he is my age, um, and he told this whole story about how many times he tried to make it before making it, yeah, and that he ultimately had to build his own platform to do the thing that he wished had had been there to support him. And it was a story that you know, I was there, my friend uh Kyle McCarthy's there, Kyle McShore film, shout out Kyle. Kyle and I are sitting next to each other, and Kyle's he's your age, and we were like, damn, this story hits. And then you look around and you're like, and and Jack was very self-aware, and he's like, This is advice that nobody in this room really needs to hear because you're all crushing it your first first round through. Um so it's in it, and I think that like the means of to do that, the infrastructure to do that exists now, and that has you know benefits and downsides.

SPEAKER_00 33:00

Oh, yeah. I mean, everything I always try to meet the world at where it's at, you know. It's like this is the world that we live in now. It's like I I tell people as well, because one of my favorite things I I've heard from my friends, and I genuinely like appreciate this, is that they will come up and be like, you were kind of the last person we thought was gonna get famous online. Uh we never thought like we didn't think this was ever gonna happen, but I'm glad it's you is always how they they kind of put it up. Uh I've like found some weird thing where I can kind of just say my thoughts. Uh I found a nice little format for that, and uh uh enough people like Dinosaur Jr. that they'll let me talk about whatever I want at this point.

SPEAKER_02 33:35

I feel like everybody, yeah. I've I've seen Dinosaur Jr. probably like three times and never on purpose. Like they have all I've always been at a situ a thing where they played. Yeah, I and like the the the cliche is true, like the loudest fucking band I've ever heard in my life.

SPEAKER_00 33:50

Incredibly loud. I've also I've seen them, I think, ten times. Uh oh really my favorite band in high school. Yeah, uh one of my favorite like things that I did was uh a uh it was like a Thursday night. I had to drive down to Providence, Rhode Island from where I lived in Massachusetts, and I was like just begging my friends to come go see Dinosaur Jr. with me at this bar. Uh and we had yeah, I had to find a kid that had a fake ID and was willing to like drive to Providence on a school night. Uh my buddy Ed Miller, he was the guy that that answered the call. It was great. He didn't know anything about Dinosaur Jr., didn't give a shit about them whatsoever, and I'm bugging out because this is my favorite band of all time. It's me and you know, 80 people in some bar. Uh I think it was called Club Hell or something like that. But uh wow. In terms of that band that has uh happened to me, I've seen the band Band of Horses, which is uh that's a millennial band. I've seen them four times, never once intending to see the band Band of Horses. And it's like, all right. I guess they're mine.

SPEAKER_02 34:45

I guess I just did a new uh KEXP um uh whatever uh performance uh that just got released and um sound amazing. Oh, sick.

SPEAKER_00 34:56

I mean they're one of my favorite bands, I guess. I've seen them one of the most like I have to like them. I it's not up, not everything's up to you. You don't you don't just get to like things that you like. Sometimes you just gotta like what you know the universe is telling you. It's like this is yours now, you gotta you gotta deal with it. I like that. I I don't want to be in charge of everything for me. I I would never give myself that much responsibility. That seems ridiculous. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:21

Oh man, that's funny.

SPEAKER_00 35:23

But yeah, man, uh, so you're you're trying to make hardcore music. Uh the band implodes in uh dramatic fashion in Salt Lake City, the city of love. Uh and so after that, are you moving back to Tennessee? Did you go back to LA? How do we get from there to uh you know Blake of today?

SPEAKER_02 35:41

Okay, yeah. So then I uh I moved back to LA. Um, and you know, I think it's important to note that like I had a pretty uh pretty intense mental health crisis in the in the middle of the band stuff.

SPEAKER_00 35:52

And still I used to work in a psych hospital for kids and adolescents. So this will be uh just another reminder. Get help if you're going through a mental health crisis, kids. It's fine. It's gonna be okay. You'll be fine.

SPEAKER_02 36:04

Uh I yeah, I mean I I I had a very long protracted uh road to recovery with that. So I spent most most of my 20s sort of struggling through all of that stuff. Um and uh but yeah, I I decided at that point that I just had to be a normal guy. I was like, well, I I I I took a run at it. I'm I I was uh you know uh I was a cooked unk at that point, and I was like 23, um, 24. So I was chopped, you know? Um and so I skippity riz, man. Skibbity riz. Yeah, yeah. So I started going to LA City College and um scaled the wall, you know, working full-time in restaurants and going to school full-time and scaled the walls of academia um until I ended up graduating at Berkeley. Um then, yeah, and then I just had I was a normal ass dude, man. I just had a regular job. Uh I got into being copywriter and content writer and content marketing manager. And so I worked uh had a had about a 15-year career in that space as a copywriter, creative director, like not the cool kind that hang out in coffee shops, um, but like the the boring kind that argue over the fucking hex of a button on like a buy now button and a checkout cart. Um very like dude, like the just brutal, you know? And so I did that for a long time until basically I I shoved off to being a full-time content creator about a year ago. Um yeah, yeah. And it's uh it's it's not the with the kind of stuff that I do and the kind of opportunities that I have, like we are not buying a mansion in Salt Lake City and you know, uh my wife's not driving a new Rivian. And you know, it's not the it's not the secret lives of Mormon wives. Uh it's a very different kind of um it's you know, yeah, I I I did take a pretty big risk in doing this. Yeah. Um, a calculated risk. Like I have a really good team that I work with. Um, but yeah, so I I you know I was doing it, I was doing two things at once. Uh I was, you know, have had a foot squarely in the corporate world um for a few years while I was making these videos at night, um and then during the day, and then during when I was supposed to be doing my job, which is why I don't have a job anymore. Um but I was I you know I had this sort of feeling that um there was a there was a possibility that this thing could be the thing. Yeah um and it has been, I mean, and and and again, even if even if I have to go back to work tomorrow, the experience of that I've had up until this point is I I wouldn't trade it. Like it's it was so it's been so cool.

SPEAKER_00 38:46

Oh man, that's uh first off, I want to touch on talking about like your 20s being a disaster that uh inevitably results in you becoming a normal person in your 30s.

SPEAKER_01 38:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:56

I was like, I I read some tweet, uh, I think it was this guy logo deadless on Twitter who just talked about like, yeah, your your 20s are like this giant LARP that you just try on all these things of like what's gonna make your life uh wild and crazy and uh exciting or whatever. And then eventually you all just end up realizing you just want to be a normal person in your 30s, and it's like I remember thinking when I was like 27, 28, like really panicking, like, oh my god, my life is over. I'm gonna be 30, and I I didn't do any of my accomplishments. And I always tell my friends, like, the second I turn 30, all that went away because it's like I got 10 more years, we're fine, I don't have to worry about this again. But like that's me as well. I feel like my 20s were spent uh a little bit more chaotic, a little bit more hectic, moving around, doing a bunch of stuff, trying out a different thing, thinking I'm this kind of like special, unique uh force of energy or something like that. Yeah, and now I'm a guy, I'm married, I got a house, we have a dog, uh, I'm probably the most boring normal unk that you could possibly run into uh out here at the very least. Uh and I love it, it's the best, it's the greatest. It's uh it's really fun.

SPEAKER_02 40:00

So yeah, I mean it's there are there one, you are a unique uh special ball of energy. Thank you so much. I would I would not say that you're not. Um I would and I also think that there is um there's a certain thing, so you're probably of the age, you're definitely of the age to where you have seen contemporaries, like people that you know, become like wildly successful, like get the thing that you thought that you wanted.

SPEAKER_01 40:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:25

And um have the experience of like um like one of the one of my favorite stories to tell. Uh oh fuck it, we'll go. Yeah, um, so like, you know, we were touring um and we would have tourmates, right? So like bands that we would we were never I always say like we were as successful as you can be without actually being successful. We were mostly um traveling t-shirt salesmen, uh, going from most bands are.

SPEAKER_00 40:48

Yeah, I would say Wilco. I saw Wilco play live and they have like 400 t-shirts. I'm like, oh, this is a t-shirt company with a wildly successful company band.

SPEAKER_02 40:57

Yeah, yeah. Or my as my friend Jeremy says, the even the even darker Jeremy from um touche more, the even darker realities, you're actually traveling alcohol salesmen. That's true, yeah. You're you you go around to places to fill bars so that the the bars can make money off of alcohol. But um, anyways, so we we were tourmates with this band called uh Foxy Shazam, who you may know, uh they're they're kind of a big band now, uh, but they were not then. And um uh pullback, um I'm I'm I'm a normal person uh at this point in my 30s, traveling for work. I'm in an airport and I uh look up on the TV and I watching um Mac Lamore perform at some sporting event, might have been the Super Bowl, I'm not sure. And he's playing that song downtown, and in the chorus, this guy comes out singing, and I'm like, I know that guy. And I'm like, holy shit, like that's Eric Nally, the lead singer of Foxy Shazam. And I was like, here I am on a work trip at the Dallas airport, you know, looking for a TGI Fridays where I can get Wi-Fi to send emails. And he is he is like literally on television um out here doing this thing. And uh, and then I remember back to having to convince Eric Nally not to, like when we were kids, not to heat up a wire coat hanger to burn a scar down his face because he thought it would be cool if he looked like a villain.

SPEAKER_00 42:29

Oh god.

SPEAKER_02 42:30

And I remember like having that conversation with him where he's like, you know, it'll be so cool on stage if I looked like a villain, if I just had a scar right here. And I was like, Eric, you're 23, 24, that's gonna be with you for the rest of your life. Like, what are you doing? Yeah. And I think at the time his like his girlfriend was pregnant, and I was like, You're gonna have a child and you're gonna be doing that. And he was like, I mean, he was the kind of guy, like the first few times we played with them, where we would we would play the set, and then we would go outside to like talk to kids in between, and then as they're going on, and then we would see people have one of two reactions, either like literally running out into the street to get away from whatever they were doing on stage, or like trying to buy all of their merchandise, like there were that intense, kind of polarizing energy where like he would he would stop the show for like five minutes and make everybody be quiet and walk out into the middle of the floor, uh, and then pretend to be playing dice with himself until he rolled a hand that won, and then the band would start again. Actually, brilliant, brilliant thing, but excruciating to watch when it doesn't work, right? And but especially like when you're in like V V, Wisconsin, and there's like th 13 people there, and like you're like, oh my god, Eric, you're doing the bit now. And so, but he was he was that kind of guy who will be yeah, yeah, and so like the the thing I used to say is uh well, you know, the price Eric pays for being Eric is being Eric. And so like he you know, he uh was was doing like just pushing to this degree where I was like, you know what? It's okay. Like, I don't need to be that guy to have had this, to have had that thing happen to me. Yeah. This could be the thing that happens to me.

SPEAKER_00 44:08

Anyways, it was just like a it's a it's a wild experience realizing that it's like, oh, I actually I thought what was weird to me is like I I understood the idea of like being a musician and like going and traveling around and like being famous and doing all that. And um I thought that the only way for me to realize like I didn't want to do that was for me to realize that it wasn't all it was cracked up to be. But it's like no, I I still kind of understand like what being a professional musician is. I just realized that I like this thing more. I like my normal, simple life more. It's like I you know, we have friends that you know do tours and stuff like that all the time. They live at in and out of vans. I have a buddy of mine that right now he just he's traveling like six to eight months a year doing sound for tours and stuff like that. And when he's back, we always like go on a walk and just recap what it is. And he's always just like it really is just sitting and eating lunch in a new place all the time, but you feel you're not there, you're at the lunch table. The lunch table could be anywhere. It's uh yeah, and just kind of realizing it's like, oh, I would never want to give up six to eight months of my life just like sitting on the couch with my wife, sitting at home, being able to like go to a friend's house to play mahjong or something like that. It's like I realize I really it was it was not anything against like being a professional artist and like going and doing that. And if that's your thing and you want to do it, I still think that's really cool. Yeah, I am boring, is kind of what I realized. And I like that, it's fun. I I enjoy it, and I think that's what comes through my reels for people.

SPEAKER_02 45:36

I well, yeah, I I think part of what what's compelling about your reels is it's a is uh they are they're seemingly stream of consciousness moments that we all have. Like that's a conver like yours are conversations that I'm having with myself in my head about certain things, and I would like to share them with somebody. And so just to see you sharing them, and then and then obviously you like I think you do have really good takes, and I think you're a smart and articulate person, and I think that's enough compliments, actually.

SPEAKER_00 46:04

We've reached on compliments.

SPEAKER_02 46:05

But I think all of those things, so like one, it's relatable, and it's and and I think that that's but it's it's um that's what's kind of that's kind of the beauty of the so of the power of the internet where we're at right now, is that this thing, which seems like such a unique thing that we do, where you go on a walk and you're you're thinking all of these thoughts in your head having an imaginary conversation with somebody, um and be like, oh god, I'm such a weirdo for doing that. It's like, no, actually, everybody does that. In fact, people do that about the exact thing that I'm thinking about right now.

SPEAKER_00 46:37

It's been one of my favorite parts about this, is how many people tell me it's like, oh my god, I remember walking around in high school, my neighborhood with my friends, and just having these conversations. And I was like, Yeah, I did the same thing in middle school and all that. I I like to think of like the writing that I really like, whether it's you know, uh short stories or like a mountain goat song or like a hold steady song. Something it's uh the universal in the specific, right? You have something that is very, very specific. I I think of the line in a mountain goat song woke up new on the morning when I woke up with the you for the first time. Uh I made too much coffee, but I drank it all because I know you hate it when I let things go to waste. And it's like uh what's funny is my wife the other day when I was out on tour texted me, like, I accidentally made coffee for both of us this morning and I sent her the song. But it's like this universal experience in this very specific thing. That's what connects to people, yeah. So many people. I've sent no children to so many people who've been divorced. It's the greatest the greatest love song ever written.

SPEAKER_02 47:37

Oh my god. And it's and it's the thing is it's it's so specific, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 47:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 47:42

Um uh, but it is so it is so universal for sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I could I could I I quoted um Mountain Ghosts in my wedding vows. So like I am like a nerdy, a nerdy Mountain Ghost fan.

SPEAKER_00 47:56

I like have to the only band that I have to physically stop myself from talking about on the reels as much as I could talk about them is the Mountain Goats. Because like sometimes I will just get into one of those periods where all I do is listen to them. Yeah. But also because they're so literary, it's so easy to talk about, like, oh, he said this line. My favorite TV show of all time is Mad Men, because the economy of language in that show is amazing. Instead of having two characters be like, Well, didn't you say this or didn't you say that? They'll just use a line of dialogue that perfectly conveys like that both parties understand what's happening. There's like, there's this one scene, Don Draper's about to get fired. He comes upstairs, and before anybody says a word, uh, he just goes, because he realizes, like, oh, they're all here to talk to me, and it's gonna be a very serious conversation. And he just goes, What time did this meeting start? And it's just saying, Oh, I know you've already talked about this, and I know what's already I know it's already been decided, and it's one line. It's just what time did this meeting start? And it's like that to me is that's the alchemy of words, you know? It's magic, man.

SPEAKER_02 48:58

It's magic. I love that shit. Love that. Um have you have you listened to the podcast? I only listen to Mountain Goats.

SPEAKER_00 49:04

I have not, I have not yet, because I'm like, I'm saving it for a time. I'm worried that once I start listening to it, it's gonna like absorb six to eight hours of my life. Um and so like I need something where I have to kill six to eight hours, you know. Like if I fly to Japan.

SPEAKER_02 49:20

Yeah, it's dude, it's so good. It's so good. Um, but it's also it just don't, yeah, maybe maybe that. But have you listened to the record? The record is really good. No, so the um the the corresponding there's a um the I only listen to the Mountain Goats the first season, I think they made a second season. Um, it goes off it basically takes track for track off of All Hail West Texas, and they talk with John Dornell and then another artist who that song was uh important to, and then that artist covers that song. Oh, that's it. And so there is an all hail West Texas album of covers, um, and uh and they're great. Um, but notably like my favorite is uh Laura J. and Grace um from Against Me covered um the best ever death metal band on Denton. And hers is the only song that is she changes nothing. It is like 100% true to form, which like I and the cover I generally loathe. Like I'm always like, don't just play the song, like give me a take. However, just her voice and that song, it's just like you're like, actually, that's fucking perfect. Like it's so good. So if you've never listened to it, anybody listening to this, uh Large and Grace's cover of fucking the best ever death metal the band, then amazing.

unknown 50:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:46

Well, I I mean, absolutely, I'm gonna put it on uh in the walk I take after this. Uh nice, but yeah, I I mean I don't know. I talk about that. Uh my wife plays a lot of music, uh and she's gonna hate me talking about it, but whatever. Uh, we did a thing, a buddy of ours, um my friend Tim from the band Vista House, during lockdowns in in the 2020s, started doing a Great Friends from a Distance compilation album where your friends would cover your friends' bands. So it was all Portland artists covering other Portland artists, and all the money that was raised was donated to charity. Um, and my wife did a cover in uh the band that I played in with her uh Yellow Room, did a cover of this band Loose. These are all bands that I would be shocked if anybody listening to this outside of Portland knows. But like, if you're in Portland, loose fucking rules. They are the best. Go check out Luce. Uh uh anyway. And the loose version is this kind of like hyper energetic song about this guy waking up after drinking too much the night before, and it's sort of this kind of very young male regret of like, oh my god, what did I do last night? And then my wife sings it slow and soft, and it's so much more ethereal. And I love the loose version. I just think my wife was able to transform it just on her voice alone into a much more like empathetic song. And it's like, I I don't know, I just music is wild, man. The ability for something to transform, transmography over very subtle changes here and there. It's like uh the fact that it's so delicate is what makes it so fun to try to do, you know?

SPEAKER_02 52:14

Absolutely, yeah. I mean, yeah, I just yeah, I I love it. I also like I it is something I was I realized the other day. So somebody um I had this cool experience recently where I got to go to Iowa to do a speaking engagement. And um yeah, and like I have one connection to Iowa, which is uh an old roommate who I haven't talked to in 20 years. And um but I lived with him in Santa Monica and I went with him back to like uh when we I was like 19, I went with him to uh his cousin's wedding in Iowa and I spent a week there with him and whatever. So I have this kind of like connection there and I was like, this is really cool. Um and having not seen him for like 20 years, he showed up at the event that I was speaking at and I was like, holy shit, like this is uh this is insane. And he he when he moved to California and when we lived together, he was very much he would he had quit a baseball scholarship at a college in Iowa because he was having like an identity crisis as a young man who like you know all these things, and he I moved into this apartment with him because I a friend of a friend, kind of situation, and I sat down and I didn't even know this, but I I guess I played uh Tom Waits' song for him. I was playing acoustic guitar and singing, and um early stuff, early stuff, yeah, not later stuff, uh like like um you know uh I think it was I Hope I Don't Fall In Love With You. And uh it was the first time he'd ever sat with somebody and heard them play a guitar in front of them and sang. And he's and now his he's a touring musician, he tours around Iowa and in the Midwest playing like country music, but he's like that was the thing that changed that was like that moment changed his trajectory.

SPEAKER_00 53:57

You never know what it's gonna be, you know? Yeah, and I was like that's crazy.

SPEAKER_02 54:00

He's like, I bought like because we we lived together for like a handful of months, and then he's like, I bought a guitar, I like quit my job at Abercrombie and Fitch. Like, I made this like who I was gonna be, and it is who he is now. Um, and it was like one of those moments where I was like, Oh, I was just doing some like Southern California fucking like bro shit with an acoustic, like basically like playing Wonder Wall, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 54:20

Oh, yeah, yeah, because I don't know, at that age, once you learn how you could play the guitar, I know it's like a cliche, it's like the guy's gonna pick up a guitar in a party and just start playing songs, which is like yeah, dude, it took so long for me to get to the point where I could play the guitar good enough that I was willing to play it in the corner of a party. And also, of all parties, I didn't have anyone to talk to that I wanted to talk to at the moment. I needed a break, and that was you know, it was either that or smoke a cigarette, and it's probably better to play the guitar.

unknown 54:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 54:45

Oh, but I was gonna say is that like in doing so, I so I he wrote me a message, it was very sweet. He was like, Yeah, this. And I was like, Oh, wonder if I can still play that song. So I got out a guitar, haven't played in years, and um I spent like two hours just like fiddling around after the kids went to bed, and I realized that like the vast majority of songs that I play are other people's songs. Like, I yeah, I don't play any songs that I've written. I've you know what I mean. Like, I it's not something I don't sit down and be like, oh cool, what's this song that I wrote this time ago? I just love it's one of the few things in life where I just love to appreciate what other people have done. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 55:16

Oh man, there's a big thing in uh Portland and the uh for Halloween. It's obviously like go to a house show venue and play in a cover band. Uh you know, we did a Joy Division cover band I did uh last time, and my wife was in a killer's cover band or something like that. And it's like the everybody at the party's having a blast because they're all in costumes and you know it's Halloween or whatever. It is one of my favorite like Portland, it's one of those things where it's like every year when it happens. What if I'm not playing, I'm a little jealous that I didn't get in a band to play. When I am playing and everyone's having a good time and you're watching this, I'm always just like, this is why I I like moved here. I didn't know at the time this is why I moved here, but like it's genuinely one of the most fun things. Uh we're trying to figure out a way to like because so many people want to play cover sets now, and there's only one night of the year where you really do that. It's like we need to find a holiday six months from October and just make it up, and that's like band cover day thing. I don't know. We just I want another one. I want to do it again. So um, but we are getting close to the end here. I like to try to keep it in an hour. Uh, and this is uh, you're gonna be, I think, the third person that I'm gonna try this with. Okay. But uh what I want to try to do to end these podcasts now is get people to do a take like the ones that I do. Because one, I want to show everybody out there, it's really not that hard. Uh it is really just like you were saying, uh, it sounds like I'm just kind of having a spur of the moment thought. And that is exactly it. I go on the walk with nothing planned because when I do have it planned, I feel like people can tell when I'm being inauthentic. I think they can see it on my face. I'm not a good actor, I'm just a guy that's articulate, you know? Uh and that little bit of excitement of like, oh, I'm I'm coming up with a new idea, that's in my voice. It's in the delivery of all that. But there's still a craft to this thing, you know? Like, I can't just talk for five minutes until I come to an idea. So what I I what I try to do, I'll I'll walk you through like the whole thought process, then we'll we'll workshop something, and then I'll let you rip on one and we'll we'll do it. But my general idea is like I try to think until I have something interesting to say, either about a song or something just generally, you know, something I read, some thought that I had. I've been doing a lot of sports recently because I've been watching the NBA playoffs, whatever. And then you try to think of a five-second hook, and you want to start with that, and then you have 15 seconds to like, yeah, I try to go with like a hook and a broader point, and then at the end, it's sort of maybe blending the two together.

SPEAKER_01 57:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 57:40

Um, what will happen a lot of the times is I'll start with the hook, I'll start talking, and then I'll realize that the important thing, the thing that this is all about, I set at like the 45-second mark, and then you just restart and start exactly at like the most important thing. Like get that out there in the front. So for you, uh, I don't know, is there anything on your mind that you've been thinking about lately? Let's brainstorm some ideas here. Yeah, well, that's great.

SPEAKER_02 58:05

Um, so my wife and I actually were just talking about in the car. She we were talking about movies. Perfect. And yeah, so we were talking about how it doesn't feel like that movies are different now. They don't they know they don't impact us in the same way. Um, and a lot of that is to do with the fact like we don't live in a monoculture anymore. Yeah. So like a lot of that, like we were we I I dude, I was in high school during like 99, which is like considered one of the greatest years of cinema, right? Like American beauty.

SPEAKER_00 58:35

99's wild, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 58:37

I mean like um Fight Club, um the uh Magnolia, uh like it was fucking stacked. And uh I I am I see the thing is it's hard to say is if there's a take or not here because I there's ambiguity. I live in this weird mix between I can't tell if it was actually a better time or if it's nostalgia, uh because I carry a lot of privilege in the world and the monoculture happened to reflect being a young, white, straight, you know, man a lot of times, cisgendered man, and and and and so like I have this nostalgia about it. Well, I recognize that you know, I don't know. There's this clip of Mark, yeah. Go ahead, go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 59:22

Well, what I was gonna say is like going on that, it's like we're getting at media is the message thing. Uh so this is Baudrillard, uh, which again tied back into the matrix of like, you know, how you consume the media is gonna change how you meet.

SPEAKER_02 59:33

Media is the message was not not to be a dick, medium medium is the message with Marshall McLuhan, which Oh McLuhan, yeah, thank you man. I only know because I have I have a ironically, I have a Marshall McLuhan quote tattooed on me, which was misattributed to Andy Warhol. And I was a media studies major, but I also love Boggiard. Uh simple. I went to dude, I went to Berkeley. Like, love that shit. I only bring it up. I didn't mean I didn't bring it up the addict and correct you, but because I think it's funny, because I have another misattributed McLuhan quote tattooed on me.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:02

So that's one of those things. I usually try not to say any nouns because I can never remember the nouns of any people's names, places, any of that stuff. Oh, really? Um, but uh it's just part of how my brain works. It's I I've I like to think that I'm more interested in what connects things than what they're like defined.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:17

They get hung up on the semantics.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:19

It doesn't matter to me at all. Like, whatever it's not important. I get in a lot of online debates with people, and they always want to talk about like who gets to define what term, and I'm like, just define it however you want. You call it whatever, and if we have to come up with a new term, we'll come up with a new term. I don't care. Let's talk about the important thing. The other part about this though is that idea of uh the youth now, right? You want the basically, it's not that you want culture to repeat 1999, you want the youth of today to look back on 2026 the way you look back on 1999, as this like, oh, this was a good thing. There was this good happen, and it's shared by people. You can talk to other millennials and be like, Do you remember movies in 1999? It's like, is there gonna be a version of that? It's like, do you remember TikTok in 2026? Do you remember Discord servers? And it's like, I think that is the interesting point there, because that's where you can comment on it. It's like, I don't know what it's gonna be like for kids to look nostalgically back on what is happening now, right? That's your hook, and then you talk about like it when I was 17, it was 1999, that was the best year for movies of all time, and then connect the two. So it's like, what is nostalgia gonna look like for kids? Uh, this is what nostalgia looks like for me, and then talk about the two things connecting, and then we'll pick a song and throw it over the top.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:39

Okay, so do I do I just try it?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:44

If you like that idea, if you feel it, right? Uh just pick a timer at the top because you only got a minute, so there's a little timer up there. Uh, you'll be able to see it. And just when you're ready, just go.

unknown 1:01:55

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:55

And you know, picture yourself like holding the phone up, and then also I love my favorite thing. Is like I'm holding the phone very clearly, and I'm always looking forward as though I'm unaware that I'm looking that I'm doing this to myself. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:09

Do you know? Sorry, sub, do you know Bailey, Bailey Poe? Do you know who that is? No. Uh you should I'll I'll send you her. She does she does similar rants, but hers are mostly in the hardcore genre. Um just just for uh shits and giggles, I I'm actually going to do the phone thing.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:25

Absolutely, yeah. No, yeah. If you want to do it and uh and shoot the whole thing, so yeah, we'll we'll shoot it this way. Uh just tag me or whatever because I want to use this as promo when the uh I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:35

I don't know that I'm actually gonna post this. I'm like so nervous now. This is so funny. Um, okay. Uh okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:43

Uh yeah, take your time. Okay. This is the best part, is I I I I do want people because uh I got this idea from my friends have watched me make reels now. I've actually started making them in front of them because I'm just like, dude, I have an idea. Like, I have to go do this thing right now. And they all comment on um how uncomfortable it is for them to see the sausage get made. They're like, that looks so goofy. It looks so fine when you do it when you watch the video, but like the process, and I'm like, all right, it is goofy as hell. Fuck it, let's make a podcast. Okay, okay, I got it.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:14

I think I got it.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:16

Okay.

unknown 1:03:19

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:21

Are people in 2046 going to watch my TikToks again? I think that for me, uh, 1999 was probably the coolest year of cinema. I mean, it's it's been documented. We had The Matrix, we had uh American Beauty, uh, we had Fight Club, and I I can go to any millennial now and talk about something that happened 26 years ago, 27 years ago. Jesus, I'm getting old. And and we can have a deep connection about the movies that were made. Now, there are tons of problems with like what the monoculture was, but I uh know that I can have a conversation with just about anyone about Fight Club uh or about Donnie Darko. Um, and I worry that in the future people who are kids now will not be able to look back on their youth because they didn't share media in the same way because we've been so bifurcated and and shattered. I do think that there are good things about it. I think it's really cool that marginalized communities uh are reflected now in in a better way and that more people can control their own narrative. That said, uh how many narratives can we have and still have them be relatable to a lot of people? Uh I don't know. I I am just worried that we're losing our ability to connect, but I'm also worried that my nostalgia and rose-colored glasses uh are completely tinting the way that I see what I actually think is relating to people. Okay, I think that's a minute. I think I'm gonna go there.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:54

Alright, so uh great first take. Got a lot of ideas out there, but you can hear as you're talking, like it's it's hard to like uh it's hard to get the shape of it down.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:04

Here would be my notes as a professional who does this this real.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:09

This is awesome.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:10

I would start with the phrase, what is what is zoomer nostalgia going to look like in 20 years? As opposed to saying in 2046, or like what is zoomer nostalgia gonna look like in 2020? One, it gets the word zoomer out there. People love the generational terms, and it also it's just succinct. What is zoomer nostalgia going to look like? Then say the phrase like, are people gonna watch my TikToks in 20 years? Are they gonna remember watching them? Yes, like am I making that kind of impact? And then go, because uh when I look back at being young, I remember 1999 as the year of movies, right? So now you have three ideas. What is Zoomer nostalgia? Is the stuff I'm doing important? Yes, this is my memory of like what my nostalgia was, and then at the end you can get into it's like I just genuinely don't know. And don't like pontificate necessarily on what you think it's gonna be, just be like it is. It is gonna be interesting to watch it happen. Uh, you know, and then your own thoughts on like you know what is different about them or whatever. I'll I'll keep uh an eye on the the timer at the top because that was I'll tell you also, one minute is no time. It is very by saying those first three things, you will probably have run through 25 seconds, and now you have 35 seconds to finish the rest of your thoughts. But so the phrase, what is uh what is Zoom and nostalgia going to feel like in 20 years, right? Yeah, are people going to watch my reels? My view of nostalgia was this. Yes, this is my thing that I share with this is so funny. Start with those.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:37

I want everybody to be able to experience this. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:40

This is like I want to start doing this like for friends that want to make music and promote it because it's like I honestly, uh, it feels like a fucking disease. I think about this constantly. This is the only thought I've had for like months.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:52

Kyle, I I say this with my whole heart. I genuinely enjoy this whole conversation. I love this. What we're doing right now is is this is amazing. Like I would put this, I would put this at the beginning. I would make this a whole podcast. This is such a good idea. Okay. Oh, so I got it, I think. What is Zumer nostalgia gonna look like in 20 years from now? Are kids gonna sit back and like watch my TikToks the way that I watch movies from my youth? See, when I was a kid in like 1999, uh, I I think it was one of the best years for movies uh of of all time. And maybe I only think that because I look back on that in in terms of nostalgia, but it's also because like we lived in a monoculture where we all experienced things at the same time, and I there were some problems to that, obviously. Like, and I'm very privileged in this as a cyst straight head white male, but I feel like we connected in a way that kids might not have the opportunity to connect in the future 20 years from now. Like they might not have the same shared sense of culture that I have with the people that I grew up with. And I don't know that it's good or bad or just different, but it definitely feels more lonely.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:08

Oh, love uh I I tell my friends all the time, it's like you actually don't have to land the plane. No one most people don't get to the end of these things, but like you landed the plane very well there. Oh, that was phenomenal. That that was a great cut. And what'll be fun is like when I do post that clip in promotion for this, yeah, you'll see how different just the video looks. Like right now, you have all these feelings and these thoughts of like what was going on, and then you watch it, you're like, Oh, that was really coherent. You know, that looks like a solid thing. I thought you did great, man. That was awesome.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:38

That was incre you should make that the whole fucking podcast, dude. I want you to do that with like I can think of like 20 creators that I'm like, dude, you gotta do this. It's so fun.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:48

Oh, absolutely. I would love I I love I love teaching, I just don't like school. So, like, I yeah, that's my coach. I coach basketball and soccer and stuff like that. And I just I like sharing stuff. I think my skill that comes across in the videos or whatever is a skill for articulation. I am able to like put into words certain thoughts or concepts or whatever.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:07

But you do it so quickly and so well. So, like what I do, like my creation process, and like sorry, I know where it takes. Yeah, no, no, no, no. But like is like it's me writing for like two hours in the notes app.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:18

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:19

Yeah, so like any video you see of mine, almost all of them have required at least uh I I go from I I I I get about a thousand words and I whittle it down to about two hundred.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:32

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:32

And so my videos are all within 180 to 220 words, and they've all been they've all started as this much larger piece, and then me physically, like what you just did as we were talking, is me physically moving chunks above and then trying to develop a narrative. No, there is the time when I just sit down and I write a piece that's basically like stream of consciousness very quick. Yeah, but it's but it's this this process that we just did right now, like extra like just so prolonged because I'm also like I'm precious about stuff. Um and then the edit, the actual physical edit takes like no time. Like the editing the video and recording the voiceover, that takes me about. I mean, like that could, I mean it can take up to an hour or a couple hours, but usually that's about 20-30 minutes. Like I can bang that out so long as I have done the work up front in meticulously sort of crafting the script because above all else, I think I've I fancy myself a writer. And so, like that experience just there though, is like, oh, if I have the shape of the thing, then like the shape of the thing is so much of the work. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:41

So yeah, that's that's the thing too about it, is like, well, one, first of all, I what I like about your stuff is uh how much thought and time that clearly comes across, right? You're not trying to pretend that you just thought this thing, you're saying like, no, this is something I like I'm putting time and effort into. I'm a serious person, I'm taking this thing seriously. I as a big David Foster Wallace fan, I love that. Like, admit that you're doing something. Uh the other part of it is like uh, you know, when you talk about the editing thing, I kind of I'm like way too quick to cut shit all the time. I always sort of assume everything I'm doing isn't really that good. So very easy to cut. And I I uh again, it's just like the economy of language. Like I am obsessed, even when I just talk to people, I'm kind of obsessed with like I usually have really big ideas that just I just thinking about stupid crap all the time. I just you know, whatever. Because my brain works, it doesn't shut off a lot of times. And I don't want to waste somebody's time just because I think something's interesting. So it's like the only way to do that is like I have to give them as much information as little time as humanly possible. Uh and so it's all just about like I I you have to shape this thing of like get your attention, earn the next 15 seconds of talking, and the more times you do that, the longer that time period is going to be. But the most important thing for these takes for these ideas or whatever is uh you don't finish cooking them. You can't. It's not gonna it's not really worth it if you've thought all the way through. You have to leave space. Like sometimes when I'm recording and I have an idea and I have a thought or whatever, if I'm not getting it, if it's not being delivered well, I'll just change the words the next time I say it and I'll make a completely different set of words just so I don't have a script in my head anymore. Now I have to think again on my feet. And I think that's the important part is like you have to leave space for that Eureka moment to like come through while you're talking.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:28

Uh it's I I I just I think that's why people talk to people, you know.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:32

Yeah. Do you like uh do you like Dijon at all? Dijon and McGee. Oh yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:35

I uh I thought I was gonna really like McGee, and I just it's not my style of music. And then I listened to Dijon, I was like, oh, this is exactly what I was looking for. He's great.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:43

Yeah, so I get that one thing that I hear about them from people that work with them or whatever I've heard in interviews is that like they never stop cooking, dude. Like you'll never hear the same version of that song twice. And like there are contexts where that's god awful. Like I like Adam Duritz of The Counting Crows, every time he goes and sings around here, he sings it different, and it's fucking terrible. I just want to hear him sing the record. But like Dijon, like when the way he it's a whole thing that happens, you're watching music get made, and yeah that exp and I think that's really rich.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:11

Yeah, it's just I I I'm a big believer in like everything's a lie, uh, every song's a lie as soon as you play it twice. Uh oh. I even take a kind of a different set of like if you listen to a recorded song, every instance that you listen to it, it's a new song because you're a different person, you know, you can't step in the same river twice. And so spontaneity, uh I think it becomes important uh to wax philosophically about it. Like, but like spontaneity on these video apps, with more and more people thinking of themselves as a product or as a brand or something like that. The reason that you started watching TikToks was because before people knew how to make a TikTok, it was just them shooting shit in their life, and I was like, Oh, look at them, they're doing this thing. It's kind of interesting. Um and it's just like I I think people get really doomer and about short form media and the way that technology is advancing, and I'm always just like, I don't know, man, I believe that the good always wins, and like whatever is good about TikTok will win out, but we don't know what the good is now. Yeah, and my little part in it is like I'm trying to find what's good for me. I can make these videos, it works for me. And then every once in a while somebody will tell me is like they'll just send me a message that just said, hey man, that was one of my favorite songs. It got me through a really hard time in my life. It's great to hear somebody else talk about it. Thank you for that little video. And that's the reason that I do it, because uh TikTok's not paying me any money.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:30

Yes, yeah, you'll get there. And it's and then they'll pay you fucking hardly any money. And it's like just instrumental, and then it's it feels almost insulting. Um, before we go, I'm in a music league. I don't know if you know what that is, uh, but uh music league is like with a bunch of friends. Uh it's an app where uh every week you are prompted with to to submit a song and the prompt every week. Yeah, it's super fun. Um, and I want to ask, so I want to ask you what this week's prompt is um what's like what's a song about an article of clothing that you like? So what would you? I know it's tricky.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:04

Oh man, oh man. Uh first thing that pops into mind is Autumn Sweater uh by Yola Tango.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:11

Oh like you said, you listen to Yola Tango for a couple years straight. Autumn sweater, huh?

SPEAKER_00 1:15:15

Autumn sweater by Yola Tango is the first thought that pops into my mind. It is a phenomenal song, and I honestly uh I mean look at the sweater I'm wearing right now. Like I'm a huge autumn sweater fan. Pacific Northwest, man. Oh, baby. It's I always tell people it's like if you like fall, if you love if fall is your favorite season, Portland is a phenomenal place for that. Like it's it everybody who lives here likes the summer, it's enjoyable, but they love fall. And that's what you get. Like all for six months of the year, it's just dark and cloudy and kind of cold, but not that cold. So, you know, I love it. Uh, it's a great place to wear sweaters and play in an indie rock band in somebody's basement.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:51

Awesome. God you were so quick with that. That was nice. Uh thanks, man.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:56

I just I just I just try to I I try not to overthink, to be honest with you. Which is like here's the thing, you know, because it's it when you start thinking about oh my god, I have to think about this thing. Oh, he needs an answer. There's dead error on the on the the podcast. And the other thing too is like I've just been trying to make as many fucking podcasts as possible until I figure out what my podcast thing is. Yeah, you're talking about your process. This is the last thing I'll say on my process. My process is always when I want to do something, I recognize that I'm not gonna think my way there. I just have to do a million of them, you know? Yeah, the TikToks that I started to make, you guys didn't the Instagram account, you guys didn't see the two months of TikToks that I made that I was too embarrassed to post on Instagram until I found something that worked. Yeah, uh, but it's like that's the thing with this podcast, is like I'm I'm just trying to get to 50. I tell myself, it's like I'm not even gonna think about really if is this working or not until 50 episodes. Cause you know, that's that's that's how things work, man. That's how things work. Your first album is not gonna be amazing, and if it is, you played a lot of music. You didn't just set up, pull out a guitar and and rip it or something like that. I it just I don't know, maybe maybe other people are. I don't believe that I have that kind of talent. I I have to work, and the problem is I'm not a very disciplined person, so I have to figure out how to work around the fact that I don't really want to do it. So um, all right, Blake. Uh thank you so much for your time. That was a really fun conversation. I hope you enjoyed it as well. Uh, is there anything you want to plug right now at the end?

SPEAKER_02 1:17:24

Uh not really. Just follow me everywhere. Uh I'm at Blake ofToday, all over the internet. Uh, if you like sad stories, um you you'd probably like what I do.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:33

I'm assuming these people do. They comment so much on the saddest songs that I play. It's great, man. I love being sad too, because I'm happy now, you know?

SPEAKER_01 1:17:42

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:43

It's all good. It all works out, man. But uh Blake, thank you so much. Um we will stay in touch, man. We'll definitely stay in touch.