Broken Perspective

Tolerance vs. Forced Acceptance and Is Too Much Destroying America? Ep. 7

• Colby Abbott, Jeff Daigle • Season 1 • Episode 7

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On this episode of the Broken Perspective Podcast, we dive into one of the most uncomfortable — and important — conversations in modern culture… tolerance.

What does tolerance actually mean today? Is it simply allowing people to live differently than you… or has it evolved into something closer to mandatory acceptance and celebration? We explore the growing pressure many people feel to stay silent about beliefs, values, and concerns they may privately wrestle with every day.

From social norms and cultural shifts to free speech, parenting, religion, identity, and community values, we ask the difficult question:

Can a society become so tolerant that it eventually loses the very foundation that holds it together?

This isn’t a conversation about hate or division. It’s about honesty, balance, and figuring out where peaceful coexistence ends… and cultural surrender begins.

Whether you agree with us, disagree with us, or land somewhere in the middle, this episode is designed to challenge perspectives and spark real thought.

🎙️ Welcome to the Broken Perspective Podcast — where difficult conversations are allowed to exist.

#BrokenPerspectivePodcast #Tolerance #Culture #Society #FreedomOfSpeech #ModernCulture #Podcast #Philosophy #Leadership #SocialCommentary


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SPEAKER_04

Welcome to Broken Perspective Podcast, where we challenge beliefs, learn from others, and aim to be better people. My name is Colby. And I'm Jeff.

SPEAKER_02

Today we're going to be talking about tolerance.

SPEAKER_04

Tolerance sounds virtuous, but can too much of it destroy the very society that embraces it? Well, that's what we're here to talk about today. But before we do, Jeff, what are you drinking?

SPEAKER_02

Uh, I am drinking an anniversary beer from Nee Deep Brewing out of Auburn. 15 years they've been slinging beer, so it says. Nice.

SPEAKER_04

Well, as delicious as that sounds, I'm gonna bitch out today, and I'll be drinking a electrolyte beverage from um it's called Element. L M N T. And uh, well, according to Element, it's got all the good stuff that you need and none of the bad stuff that you don't. So get all those electrolytes. May or may not have had too much beer last night, and therefore, do the healthy thing and try something else. But cheers. Cheers, brother. Ooh, that is salty. If you've had an element, uh let me know. What do you think? You guys like it?

SPEAKER_02

Very tasty, at least my uh my knee deep IPA is. I don't know about probably not stay salty, electro-like drink, but I get if it's good for you.

SPEAKER_04

It tastes like if the ocean was flavored, it's pretty salty. It's pretty good. No, it's not it is good. Okay, it's like yeah, it's like a mouthful of ocean water, but with um, what is this one? Oh if it's strawberry or what it is. Uh watermelon salt. I was way off.

SPEAKER_02

Fair enough. All right, so let's get into it. Uh, what does tolerance actually mean? And is it different from like acceptance?

SPEAKER_04

Well, to accept something means you like would actively support it, maybe like encourage it almost, like you believe in it, right? Versus to tolerate something means by very by its very definition, to tolerate something I think insinuates you disagree with it, right? Yeah, like I disagree with it, but I'm not gonna actively try to suppress it. I'm not gonna go against it, I'm not gonna go out of my way to stop it. Right. It's just I tolerate it, you know. What do you think?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I think it's along the same lines. Um yeah, it's something that maybe uh fundamentally it's not your cup of tea. It's not something that you agree with, you're actually against it, but you just sit there and you go, okay, well, it's not that big a deal. How does it affect me? I think that's how I think a lot of people uh view it. And I'm sure there's a Webster's definition that we should probably look up to indicate what the definition actually actually means. But uh that's how I interpret it. It's just something that you don't necessarily agree with, but um, you know, you just you're gonna tolerate it for their yeah, because I guess I can give an example, like from a religious perspective, like as a Christian, I can say I can tolerate people who are atheists, right?

SPEAKER_04

They don't believe in God or whatnot. I um I don't actively go out there and suppress their d uh their ability or right to do that. I don't agree with it, but I don't I don't go boycotted, I don't go out there and take a stand against them. I just they're free to do what they want to do, right? I tolerate it. I tolerate it. Uh but I don't accept it. I don't accept it myself.

SPEAKER_02

Right. It's their journey, right? And it's um, you know, going into the religious aspect, it's you know, you know, you want maybe what's best for them, but are you gonna convince them? Are you gonna spend your time and energy and try to, you know, change their way of thinking? It's kind of like talking about politics and talking about religion. It's uh very unlikely that you're gonna change somebody's opinion uh right in a in a brief conversation. It's gonna take you know a long conversation with both parties willing willing to be able to uh look at it and delve into it, which is kind of what we're doing here and what we're trying to do here. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, it's being open-minded. Um and that's who you look for, like from a Christian perspective. Like I've never felt the need to go. I don't know, like I've never felt the need to go and battle people politically and battle against people about religion. And that's not to say my job as a Christian is not to go try to create more disciples and create more believers in Christ. However, I think you also have to real realistically meet people kind of where they are. And it doesn't mean you don't talk about it, it doesn't mean you don't express your beliefs, which in fact is like I want to get into a little bit later, but like I think we should be able to be healthy enough to talk or talk about our beliefs without crushing other people's. Right. You know what I mean? Like, I don't need to tear down your belief to prove mine is better. You know, I think it should be more of like a just equal sharing of what we believe, discuss it, and you know, we're both we both have the ability to come to our own conclusions and make the choices that we want. And yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Well, I think the uh the fascinating thing about this topic um of tolerance is there's various levels of of tolerance, right? You have an individual level all the way up to a um a societal level of tolerance, and so it can go to a lot of varying things, and I think you have more control over what you're willing to tolerate, right? Because as an individual, you can be like, okay, I don't like that behavior in other people. So if somebody does that to me, I'm not gonna tolerate that. And what does that look like? Does that look like we get into a fist fight? Does that look like we get into a disagreement? Or does it just look like somebody I'm not gonna associate with anymore? And you just kind of like, nope, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna deal with that anymore. And then you go to a com like a societal level where it's like you're you're talking about the masses, and then you have countries like America, which has extreme tolerance, and then you have countries like, let's say Singapore, who's very um, very structured and kind of set in their ways. Um, and there's pros and cons to both. And so it's fascinating to delve into that and let's see where we go with our conversation.

SPEAKER_04

It's interesting to think about the foundation of America and how we were built on this idea that we should have, you know, freedom of speech and the ability to think the way we want and believe in the religions that we want and have be able to express ourselves as individuals. Yet what you know, what it was founded on was that was our that was like our unifying goal, right? We all believed in that. And now over the last probably like 50 years, I feel like there's been this like big swing to forcing other people to think the way you think. And if you don't agree with certain people, like that becomes a big problem. It creates a lot of division, and we're seeing that a lot, which leads me to the next question is like, do you think society has redefined tolerance from no longer just peaceful coexistence, but now it's almost like mandatory approval? What are your thoughts on that?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I think social media and politics has definitely kind of made it feel that way. You have a cancel culture that has emerged in the last, you know, whatever, 10 years, where if they they almost ask you to um participate um versus just tolerate. Um and you see that with different flags being displayed in different locations. Um there was the profile photos on Facebook.

SPEAKER_04

If you didn't put Black Lives Matter on your profile, people thought you were like racist or something.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, and it was fascinating. Uh it I remember an interview with the late Kobe Bryant, which was uh very fascinating because it was um on the uh was it uh Kayvon Martin, if that if I remember that Trayvon. Trayvon Martin, yeah, the Trayvon Martin.

SPEAKER_04

Security officer kid.

SPEAKER_02

Right, and during that time after uh he was killed, um, everybody was putting up the hooded, you know, with the the mask over the face. And um they were interviewing uh Kobe Bryant on BET, and the the interviewer was getting on him pretty harshly for for not doing that. And and he was like, Well, well, why would I? And it was like, well, he was an African-American. He was like, Well, I don't know any of the details of this. And he was kind of called out for not supporting African American culture, and he was like, Look, I'm a global African. He was like, he was raised in Italy, spoke several languages, but he was like, Aren't we supposed to be judged by the color of our skin? And why would I rush to his innocence when I don't know anything about his character, I don't know anything about what happened. And he was just, you know, it was it was a powerful statement because ultimately he wasn't just jumping on that bandwagon. He's like, I have no idea. He was like, I'm a basketball player, I work on being a better basketball player. And if I learned through the investigation or whatever that he was wrongfully killed, then yeah, I would support that. But I don't know. So I'm not gonna jump to his guilt and I'm not gonna jump to his innocence when I know nothing about him except for that he's black. And so it was kind of a powerful um discussion point, but I think you see that in a lot of different things where it's I think we've gotten to a point in our society where um it's definitely feels like um if you're not if you're not celebrating another thing that you're anti that. And I think that's where the tolerance has become kind of weaponized.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, people are pushing for like blind support of everything. Right. And it's like, how refreshing was that though, to hear someone just being like, hey, I don't know enough information about it. Right. Like that I think that's so refreshing to hear versus everybody just blindly supporting things because they saw it on social media and it's the new trending thing to do. And right.

SPEAKER_02

And he definitely, I mean, he quoted Dr. Martin Luther King. He's like, I want to be judged by the content of my character, not the color of my skin. And that goes both ways. That's not I'm gonna presume he's innocent because he's black, and I'm not gonna presume he's guilty because he's black. I don't know. It was an incident that occurred thousands of miles away from where I am. So I'm not gonna just virtual signal and say, I support this. I can support that the um unlawful killing of African American and killing of African Americans wrong. Like it's just like that's wrong, but I don't know the details of the story. And so um I think it was just a refreshing thing being in law enforcement that um sometimes you just we can't disclose all the information on incidents because there's there's uh it can affect the court case and different things. So the media just tries to portray things really quickly, very uh very quickly and oftentimes inaccurately, just so they can get a story out and then get clicks. And so we can't speak out onto the truths of the matter and whatnot. Um, and so that becomes a thing. But I think we're veering off a little top uh off topic a little bit, but I think it's um anyways, it was it was it was impactful for me. It was it was uh Yeah, but no, you're right.

SPEAKER_04

I think the the mere fact that the interviewer that was talking to Kobe Bryant was trying to force him into some sort of position clearly, yeah, supports the idea that we have gotten to this point in society where, like you said, if you don't take a stand and support something in one way or the other, you're a problem. Right. And you should be canceled because you didn't you didn't agree with the masses that you see on social media, which I think could do everybody good to just like when you see things on social media, like why is there such a rush to come to a some sort of conclusion? It's not your investigation, you have no part in it, you don't have all the information to come to a conclusion anyways.

SPEAKER_02

Well it's emotional, it's emotional based and it's it tries to stir the pot, right? No, you want to get information on it, so you click, click, click, click, click. They're interested, the media is now interested in getting clicks versus getting the information right, which um I think has created a mistrust um of that and they feed into it because ultimately the more clicks you get, the more advertisements and it's kind of it's exposed um a little bit of the ugliness of it. And gosh, wouldn't it be refreshing if there was um an entity that would just report factual information and make it so that it was very clear um what is what is fact and then what is opinion and have a distinct separation on it.

SPEAKER_04

So yeah, which I think is what the news was supposed to be many years ago. Correct. It's gotten so far the other way where it's like creative reporting and always bending the narrative to fit a a certain um position. Right. Which is yeah, which really sucks. Um I often ask like why do people feel so compelled to have an opinion on so many topics, anyways, like the shootings and the police related stuff. I mean, I get that it's I don't know, it's interesting in the sense that like to hear about use of force and shootings that happen and like celebrities, for example, though, like why do they feel compelled to even respond and comment on these things? I mean, I just I don't comment on things that I hear about, you know. If a surgeon, you know, if it's a news story about some local surgeon who botched a medical procedure, I just I don't feel compelled to give commentary on that. I don't know how to do that surgery. I don't I don't have the training that it takes to even give a um a medical opinion or a scientific evaluation. Yet people who aren't outside of policing, for example, they just feel compelled to give their opinion. Right. And the problem is I think it's irresponsible for for a celebrity's position to even give commentary on something that they have no business commenting on.

SPEAKER_02

Well, maybe a disagreement. It's like I don't mind if they make comments on it. I just don't understand why people care. Like, why does anybody care what a celebrity thinks? Like their opinion on a matter that's not related to their field doesn't make them an expert. So it's like you can have whoever whoever popular person out there right now have an opinion on something. I was like, what is it what doesn't make their opinion better than my opinion? I always remember this um this commercial back in the day, and it was you know a local um athlete and he was eating at this steakhouse, and the commercial was like, We cook our steaks just the way so and so likes it. And I was like, Why do I care the way he likes his steaks? I only care the way I like my steaks, and it was just right how he he might like it well done, like a psychopath.

SPEAKER_04

But it shows how influential like celebrities are though, because yeah, you say why do people care, which I think is freaking crazy, right? Like, why do you care what this guy thinks? But the reality is people do and they have influence, and I don't know, it's just crazy.

SPEAKER_02

Right. Like a s like I can't identify with celebrities in any way, shape, or form. If they have a political belief or they have a belief on something, it's like it doesn't really impact me because I've been nowhere near being a celebrity and I don't live that life. Yeah, I don't have a cajillion doll cajillion dollars or a cajillion followers.

SPEAKER_04

Yet yeah, it almost makes me think it's it's disingenuous too, though, because I feel like when they do comment on these things, it's really just to get more attention. Like they always say, like, there's no bad attention when you're a celebrity and you get paid for it. Like if it's attention, like that's good for you. You know, I think that's what they use it for, like, because they don't take the time to understand the matter and give an intelligent response. All right. It's an emotional response like anyone else. And yeah, I just I don't get it.

SPEAKER_02

So do you think tolerance is a key component to a free and stable society?

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, I mean, definitely. We have to have tolerance. Like, tolerance isn't a bad thing. Uh really, in fact, I I would argue intolerance is more of a bad thing. I mean, it's okay to tolerate things, it doesn't mean you accept it. Um, but imagine if we had no tolerance for anything. Like, how many things do you think are stupid versus what I think are stupid? Your dislikes versus my likes, the things that I, you know, right in America, that's the beauty of our country is you know, you gotta like the things you like. You can listen to the music you want to, I can listen to the music I want to, I can see the movies I want to. Like, we all have different things that move us and motivate us. And if you didn't have some level of tolerance, like we would be at conflict all the time trying to make people be like us, which is not how humans are. Like, we're all very different, you know. However, there has to be boundaries on this level of tolerance. And again, what does tolerance look like to you or I versus some of these more extreme positions that we're talking about? Because again, tolerance to me is not accepting something or stating that it's correct, it's just letting it be. But when tolerance goes to the extreme, where it's like you shall accept it, that's when it becomes a problem.

SPEAKER_02

Well, there's a a theory, and I can't re I want to say it's the the paradox of call uh tolerance. And the theory is that if you or a society tolerates everything, and it's just like the most tolerant society, they would even tolerate ideas that the maybe the other side would be to eliminate or overthrow the the society. So if you're extremely tolerant, like just to the highest level, then you're probably not gonna be in a position in that position for very much longer.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, that's why I said there's gotta be boundaries to some degree, though, right? So But what does that look like? Where does tolerance end? Well, to me, I would say tolerance ends at the point that you start I mean, if you're if you're endangering somebody, if it becomes a safety risk, you know, if you're it it like if you tolerate extremely reckless behavior in society, for example, I think there's a boundary there because now you're affecting other people's safety, which is a natural right. We should all have the right to move about safely, right? Without harm from other people. Well, DUIs can be a great example. What if we just tolerated, like, hey, that guy has an alcohol problem, it's not his fault. Let's tolerate him driving, right? That's not a thing we do right now, fortunately. Well, but it's a good example, though. You could get you could the way people are nowadays, you could realistically get to that point, like with everything else, it creeps up, right, over time. So if we start tolerating people driving drunk, maybe we don't hold people accountable. We see this with like retail theft, too.

SPEAKER_01

Well, that's what that's where I was going.

SPEAKER_04

So yeah, you have to have this boundary, but once it once that tolerance starts encroaching upon other people's rights, like to their own safety and their own living, then that's that's where the issue is. An example I can give is like maybe you like some disgusting ass fruit that I I hate, right? I can tolerate you eating it in my presence. The problem comes when you then tell me I have to eat that disgusting fruit for dinner. Right. When you're like, you have to eat this because I like this. Right. Well, now there's a problem here. You're trying to force your thing on upon me, right? Correct. So that's yeah, there has to be boundaries.

SPEAKER_02

So does the boundary is that really the idea of laws is to put boundaries on the intolerable acts like that?

SPEAKER_04

No, I think so. A hundred percent, I think. So I think it's the whole reason we came up with laws to begin with, right? Enough people universally accepted, okay, here is the line in the sand, right?

SPEAKER_03

Right.

SPEAKER_04

We'll accept you being a little weirdo, like dancing like a fool in the street. We'll accept all these other things.

SPEAKER_02

Like you do that.

SPEAKER_04

But once you start affecting other people around you in a very negative way, there has to be a law drawing drawn, a line drawn, and that's where laws come into place. Like, um, like I said, if you're if you're reckless and you're endangering other people around you, there's laws for that. You know, you can't do these activities. Um theft. I would argue theft is one of those things that in many areas have become too tolerant from the government. Um it's not that there's no law that. That says that's legal, but the way we enforce it and the follow-up that comes from the legal system has gotten to be a big problem in a lot of areas where there's no accountability. Right. And it's gone on so long that you got businesses closing down in big major cities because the government's not doing their job, and we've gotten too tolerant of it, right? This behavior, people going in and stealing from retail stores, costing them money, they have to shut down, or they have to take other measures to like prevent theft. Right. An example I can give, and it's it's kind of sad to say, but if you go to if you've ever gone to a Walmart in a really nice suburban area and you go down the women's cosmetic aisle, cosmetics are on the shelves open for you to look at and grab. You go to a Walmart in a really big urban city where theft is out of control. What do the Walmarts look like when you go into the cosmetic aisle?

SPEAKER_01

Locked up.

SPEAKER_04

Everything's locked up behind glass. I go, I've gone to a few Walmarts in random cities where I'm like, I can't even grab a box of like razor blades or even the cologne or the even the aftershave. Right. Because that area, to me, that's an indicator of obviously the government there or the court systems have gotten so tolerant of theft occurring in their city that criminals don't care anymore. Right. And so people take different measures. It creates a little bit more of an extreme division amongst people and things get out of control. Right.

SPEAKER_02

The business the business owners have to operate in the best interest of the business. So they're going to do what they have to do to keep their products. Um but some people would and some people do have a big complaint about that, like how that's unfair or whatever, and you're like, well, you know, the business is gonna do what's in the best interest of the business. And you know, that's the freedoms that um this country provides.

SPEAKER_04

Um but yeah, so I mean for sure, like tolerance, so like tolerance can for sure become a problem, and it can harm the community and even culture, you know. I think like how so? So how does how can so this this this idea of having extreme tolerance like we see on social media, like you should people like the phrase like live and let live, is how it goes. Yeah, live and let be or whatever. If as long as you're not being harmed, like let them be. Well, that taken to the extreme is really dangerous. Like, for example, you have people that are messed up in the brain that are adults that enjoy looking at young girls that are underage or young boys, right? Pedophiles. Well, is it so far-fetched to believe that we could get to a point in society where it's like, well, that's just what they're into, that's what they like? As long as what is wrong with them just watching child porn? What is wrong with them just having these ideas and going and just looking at your kids in the mall? What's wrong with that? They're not hurting anybody until they act, but like what's wrong with it, right? We should just accept it.

SPEAKER_02

Right. Yeah, um, until you, you know, see the investigations and what the like some people will put these kids through to get these videos and all the things, and it's just such a horrific um crime that does have countless victims.

SPEAKER_04

And so But what's crazy is there are people out there that are advocating, I've been seeing it now like online. Like there are activists out there that will show up to court cases where pedophiles are like going through these cases of the where they did something really harmful to a child and they're actually trying to get lower sentencing and all these things, and it's and it's a wild.

SPEAKER_02

I mean, now we're going into a different different realm because it's a it's a wild idea because it's like they're like, okay, we're gonna incarcerate them and we're gonna put them away, and then you're like, cool, but then they let them out. It's like, do you think that like you could put me in jail for 30 years? I'm not gonna not be attracted to women. Like, that's just how I was born. And so, like, they put these pedophiles, people that are attracted to children, they want to have sex with children, and they put them away and then they release them. It's like, do you think you think that changed in them?

SPEAKER_04

It's obviously there was a brain issue with them that they are a danger to children, correct when you keep them the fuck away from children. Right. But tolerance is the way they like try to like ease this position in, like, well, you should be more accepting of like the fact that he has a problem, so that should count towards something, right?

SPEAKER_02

You know, and yeah, that's I think it's a great example because it's something that I think it encapsulates more people that they're like, no, that's just unacceptable. I remember um taking uh chaperoning a field trip for um my oldest son's uh he had a field trip and it was in the it was at a beach or whatever, and there was a guy that was clearly like leering at these kids or whatever. And so a couple of other dads and I kind of noticed it and we're like, all right, like we we went and confronted him and he was like, No, I'm legally allowed to be here. You can't stop me from doing that. I was like, legally, you're right. Yeah, but you're still about to get the brakes beat off you, dude. Like, get the fuck out of here. For sure. And he understood that and he understood like he's like, Yeah, that legal process is gonna go through in the long term, but short term, I'm in a lot of trouble. So I'm gonna leave. But it was still one of those things where I think a lot of times because people are just fearful of confrontation. Um, I think that leads to the idea of tolerance because we were talking about it individually, right? Like, so as an individual, I was like, I am not gonna tolerate this dude watching these children, watching the children, my son, and the kids that I was, you know, put in charge of and for the school. I'm like, I'm not gonna let this dude creep on these guys. So I'm gonna take an action. But then you have subsets where you have a school and their tolerance, and then you have, you know, like a city versus a state versus a the federal government versus and I think that's where um I think most conservatives think that most of the a lot of the tolerance things should be. I think that's why they believe in a smaller government that believes in the state makes those decisions. And so, like at this state, we're not gonna tolerate this kind of behavior. Right. Other states, if you want to tolerate that, if you want to do that, you do you, but we're not gonna do it. Like you have very religious states um that are like, we are no on abortion, we are not gonna tolerate that. And it's a controversial issue. Um, and again, be I am generally conservative, but it's that's an issue I don't have a strong stance on. I'm just like, eh, whatever. I can understand both sides of the argument. And if I don't have a strong uh and who am I compared to every so you're like, okay, but um that being said, it's like it they make it a state issue. Okay, this state says absolutely not, this state says sure, yeah, then I think there's there's um that's more of a correct way to do it than the country just going absolutely everybody who wants it, you're like, eh, it's hard. You have to you have to you have to understand that people have different thought processes and you have to respect it in a way. Like, you know, some people they're gonna draw their line in the sand, and kind of like we were talking about like Singapore, line in the sand, they are not gonna give in, but they have low crime, very low crime, but they don't have technological advances. So there's a cause and effect of tolerance, right? If you have a lot of, if you're more tolerant like the United States is, they're open to ideas. Like, send your ideas. We want all the ideas and from wherever they come from, if they're great ideas, we can maybe implement them. Versus if you're a total like intolerant culture, you're like, no, we don't want ideas. We we we just want to keep things status quo. This is exactly where be well. How do you make technological advances? How do you how do you grow? And then the idea, you know, is growth always good? Economically, you would like to think advancements technology, sure. But if you're just like, man, there's always a cost to everything.

SPEAKER_04

There's a cost, yeah. Especially with the growth. And that's the crazy thing about America is we started off like it was great at the time where we had this expansive idea of the more ideas, the better. But like this conversation is going, can too much of that destroy the very society that embraces it? And I think it can, and we're seeing that in America today because it's no longer, you know, show me your ideas, let's talk about them, let's compare them, let's let the I let the best idea win. Now it's here's an idea, you better accept it. Right. You know, and some of these examples we're giving are a little bit extreme, like obviously the child predator one. However, but that's how it's how did we get how did we get to even where we are today where you have men using women's restrooms, you have men in women's sports. A hundred years ago, that would be unimaginable, right? Right, but how did we get there? And I think tolerance is the vehicle that got us from there to where we are today. Right. And that's where again it can become extremely harmful. And then it goes down the line of like, where do you stop it though? Where does where does tolerance stop? If women can be in men's sports, and like I mean, what's to who's to say people can't start marrying their dogs now? Right, right?

SPEAKER_02

I'm surprised it hasn't. Well, I'm surprised I'm sure it's happened.

SPEAKER_04

I mean we have people getting on airplanes, claiming their chicken is like a service animal. We have all these weird things that are happening, and there's a there's other fringe, there's other fringe um things that are going on in society now that if you were to look back a hundred years ago, you'd be like, how is that even allowed?

SPEAKER_02

Well, I think not say they fall bad, but like right. You push the boundaries, right? I think it's called the uh Overton window. Um where the idea is you have somebody who does like something that's borderline appropriate, inappropriate. You're like, I'm not really sure about that. And just off the top of the head, I think of like Elvis Presley. Like, I you know, I wasn't around during that time, watched Force Gump or whatever, and he's shaking his hips or whatever, and the mom's like covering her eyes and walks him away, right? So society was like, Do we accept this, do we tolerate this, or do we stop it? And society chose to accept it and so, or tolerate, and so then it goes forward, and then because it's been tolerated, then some the next person can set the next, push the boundaries a little bit more, and then push the boundaries a little bit more. They keep pushing the boundaries, and it's like, well, if you just keep giving an inch, giving an inch, and then all of a sudden, and again, all of a sudden, it's like that was years ago, but then you have like Janet Jackson in the Super Bowl halftime show, you know, having a wardrobe malfunction, but that pushed the limit, and clearly it was like that's too far because you really haven't heard of Janet Jackson in very much sense. Um, but it was like that's where it keeps going. You know, it gets to the you know, the and uh, you know, the MMs and the Marilyn Mansons or whatever, and it's like, yeah, I I I like Eminem's music, but man, that's extreme. And if you but you I believe in also freedom of speech, but he keeps pushing the limit, could pushing the limit, and now you get all these things, and you have you know, whap, and you have all these things that are like now it's being played on the radio, and you're like, Are you kidding me? Yeah, and then you're like, okay, I don't accept it, and then you're just classified as old. You're just like, Yeah, I'm old. Right. You're like, Dad, you don't get it, you don't know what you're talking about, you're so old, and you're like, dude, that's extreme. Like, that should not be played on the radio.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, it makes me wonder because what you're talking about is just being like progressive, right? Like, and in many ways, progress is great, like things evolve. The things that we accept, you know, that you used to be counterculture are now just the norm, right? Which in many ways that's great, but in many ways it's not, you know, like I mean you can look at Instagram, for example, you can scroll Instagram. There was a video I saw recently, it was like some girls shooting guns and they were dressed like half naked, right? And the guns were blurred out while their little pasties on their nipples were completely visible. Right. And to me, that's just it baffles my mind that the gun is the problem, but it's totally acceptable to be half naked all over Instagram. Right. The thing, and it's just like, how far do we go down this line and what does that look like?

SPEAKER_02

I mean, do we have who's the control for like who who draws that line in the sand? I mean, whether you're talking about you know, government or you talk about businesses, or you talk about schools, you talk about social media, like yeah, what's the power that goes like this is we're taking it too far now?

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, I mean, ultimately it's going to be the people, right? But what does that look like? Is that where we have? I always think you if you look at history, there's always these big periods and then some big event, just like it's almost like a reset, whether it's a war or a collapse of a society or whatever. There's always like this reset that happens, though. And I don't know, probably a historian could tell me the better pattern of what it is, but like I think are we approaching some sort of reset like that in our current right.

SPEAKER_02

I would I would love, and this is probably for another episode. I have a lot of ideas on this, but like I would love a factory reset on ideas. Because I think when you come up with a when you come up with an idea, right? Um you have your best intentions. It's a good idea, it's well thought out. It takes a lot of usually you bounce that idea off a lot of different people, and then people are like, oh, let's make adjustments, and then all of a sudden you push it forward. But I think as time goes on, people find the loopholes, and people find the things, and then they take advantage of the system, and then all of a sudden you're like, you've gone too far, and people keep adding on to it and adding on to it and adding on to it, and changing the way it initially was intended, and then all of a sudden, yeah, it gets to a point where it's gross, and you're like, can we can we just like go back to the fundamentals? And not everything can do that because the the I the idea of of of progress, right? I I think schools are a great example, like schools have been going a certain way for for a long time, and I think it's gotten to a point whether it's um politics or unions or whatever, and technology is advanced in such a way that's like it's just not the most efficient way of doing it, but we keep doing it because with the unions and the leak, there's a lot of money invested into it, but it's like there's new avenues coming out, but people are like, I'm gonna stick to the the what I know, and I'm gonna keep sending myself included, like I send my kids to um you know public school. But I think there's better ideas and there's better ways to do it. It I I would not be disappointed if that you know went wake up put and we're like, let's start over with a new idea using um technology to educate because kids have the intention span of like 10 seconds now, and they come home and they don't really know anything about what they've learned. And you're like, there's gotta be a better way to educate these.

SPEAKER_04

I think it is evolving though. Like you're seeing a lot more of the homeschooling or the uh the smaller communities that get together and they educate their own their own kids. Right, but that's not available. You see a lot of them now. Um, I forget the name of the one, it's like the Heritage something or whatever. Right. And I mean the Peterson Academy. Peterson Academy's coming out. All these like uh private um educational institutions that are coming out now that I think a lot of people are wising up to the idea that these might be the better route than public education. I think public education should always be there, of course. There should always be like this foundation, right? That's all it's for. However, I think with technology and everything that we have nowadays, there's no reason kids should be sitting in a classroom, I don't think, for like eight hours a day, right, with how little progress they make. We shouldn't be in school for eight hours a day and still have like the worst worlds. There's people in like far less advanced countries that have higher educations than a lot the average American student.

SPEAKER_02

Well, that's because it like I think we talked about last time, it's not appreciated. It's not value for it. Like most kids that go to school don't want to be there. They don't it's not a cherished thing that they're going to. If they went in with a mindset like, dude, this is gonna change my life, this is incredible, I'm so lucky to be here. Right, I'm gonna take everything the teacher says and I'm gonna learn it and it's gonna be great. Yeah, then it would it would be advantageous.

SPEAKER_04

But to the kids' defense, though, like they know there's a better way too. Correct. These kids are smart enough nowadays, like they have things like Chad G, they all have a computer in their pocket, but yet, like you said a minute ago, schools are so far behind and they're still trying to teach the same old ways, the same old curriculum, same old, same old methodology, where kids they have so much information at their fingertips. I would be frustrated too. Right. Like sitting there in class learning things in a really slow, archaic manner, right when you're like, I can learn all of this in an hour on my phone. If I want to when the time arises.

SPEAKER_02

Right. Right.

SPEAKER_04

I don't need to know about this just because so there's just so much, so many more efficient ways that, like you said, school can be handled. So it sounds like we tolerate school. We toler, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Well, I mean, I don't we're we're we're sending our kids to it because to a large degree we are.

SPEAKER_04

We're tolerating the system, but I don't want to say everybody is because there's a lot of people that are battling it, though, going to these like school council meetings and you see it all over the news now, like parents showing up. The problem is it's just not enough. And how do how do you have enough impact and power to change a system that's controlled by the government who's really slow? There's no incentive to really evolve, which is the biggest critique I think most conservatives have of the government is it's very slow, it's archaic, there's no incentive to evolve. Whereas you can just open up a business and create a much better solution for people, profit from it. Yeah, it's profit, capitalism, but people are benefiting from it versus going the government route.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

You know, I think the it just goes back to the idea that the government should be just the minimum level of anything that it provides for you in society. It's not, it's not to help you excel, it's not to help you be the best. You're not gonna be the smartest on a public education. You're gonna have to do more as an individual as time goes on to take advantage of these technologies and pro and resources that we now have available to us. Right. Like no longer can we just wait and expect public educ education to be enough.

SPEAKER_02

Right. Totally agree. But we'll continue to tolerate it and because it's the way it's been. And I think it'd actually be a good idea for another episode at some point. I have a lot of uh a lot of ideas of different systems that have been going on for too long. And you're like, this is just no longer the efficient way to do it. There's better ways to do it, but because we're it's tradition or it's um it's the way we've always done it, like you know, the death of any good company or agency is like, why do you do it like that? Oh, it's this is the way we've always done it. You're like, pfft, that's a terrible reason. Like, let's find a better way to do it, a more efficient way to do it, and let's do a better way. But nah, we're not changing. We get money for this, and you're like, So that's what we're doing? We're doing that because that's the way we've always done it. Terrible.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I agree. So where do you how so I think we kind of covered it, but it's like the line drawing, right? Ha how does that how does that work? And I know it's that's a convoluted, like that's a loaded thing because there's so many different things that we could be talking about that um maybe we maybe That society I don't want to say forces us, like we forces us to tolerate, but it's like that's intolerable. Like that we can't but what do we do about it? Because the law is not doing it's it doesn't, it's not you getting the teeth to stop that behavior or whatever.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. I think the answer is really just to not succumb to the pressure of society to agree with the masses. You know, so many people are afraid to just take a stand and say, no, I disagree with that. It's a lot easier to be passive in society today and you know, you're not ruffle any feathers or anything. Right. And you see that so much in a bunch of different facets of life. But I don't think that's the the approach that ultimately wins. I think the approach that ultimately wins is being able to stand in reality and logic and truth and say that's not right. And be fearless in saying that. Right. So many people are afraid to just take a stand and say what they believe. It's it's far easier to just go with the trend, right? Right. And say it's not my problem and turn the and social media makes it difficult because if you take a stand on something, people like cancel culture. If you if you're a business owner and you sit you take a stand against something, well now people are boycotting your business. And so I I understand the pressure to just be like, well, I'm just gonna be passive and not say anything. I understand that. But again, that's dangerous because if too many people are passive, what what what does it look like then? And that's where you get to these problems of like, you know, men and women's sports and stuff like that. Too many people didn't stand up originally because they didn't want to, you know, look too controversial and say, no, that's not right. Right. Like we should protect women's rights to compete against other women, right? If you really care about women, like let's if you're truly a feminist, you should be supporting the idea that men should not be in women's sports, right? But too many people sit back and they're just like, I don't want to ruffle any feathers and I'm not gonna say anything, and they tolerate it until it becomes a big problem.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, and then it keeps it keeps advancing, kind of like we were talking about. Um and it keeps advancing, keeps advancing until people say no more. But I can't remember the term, but you see it, right? You see it in you know, activists or whatever. It's like they complain about whatever, and they go to further extremes to be like, I'm the most oppressed, I'm the most oppressed. So it's like, you know, it started off as like African Americans were like, oh no, I don't, like, I don't get my fair share. I'm oppressed. Well, then women were like, well, African American women are treated worse. And then it's like, well, then the gay African American community women were like, no, I'm more oppressed. And so like, and then it just keeps going like it, like it keeps going further and further and further. And you're like, all right, like, so the first group wasn't like he they didn't have a gripe, like you took it to the far extreme, and they like at some point you just kind of have to go, like, dude, fuck off. Like, and it sucks, but that's where when you start taking the furthest, furthest, furthest, you know, and it's like I forget, I I was I was on Rogan probably years ago where a guy was talking, like he was talking about his friend who was like a gay black conservative, and he was might as well have just been racist. Like it was just like because, like, heaven forbid, like because he was now the uh he was no longer the oppressed version. It was like the the the most senior or the the biggest victim is this. So let's focus on this and uh everybody else's like what do you do?

SPEAKER_04

What do you do with someone like that who's a gay black conservative? It's so confusing.

SPEAKER_02

I think it was called the purity spiral, I if I remember correctly, of something like that.

SPEAKER_04

We need someone that can look that up for us. We need to hire a Jamie like Rogan has to sit over there and look things up for us.

SPEAKER_02

But it's to me, it's like moral outbidding. Like you're just trying to bid to be the biggest victim, to be the most oppressed. And if that's what you're searching for, I guess for their perspective, it's doing the most good because they're setting the extreme. So everything before that is now tolerated and becoming like not that big of a deal. But they're the ones that hate on them. That's I think the weirdest part. And maybe I've just gone on some tangent that should be edited out later, but I don't know. No, I'm just I'm just talking. Sometimes I'm dumb.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, most of the time. Yeah, we're all dumb. That's why we're here trying to discuss these things, though. Uh no, it's all relevant though. Um so I guess a bigger another question would be can society remain unified if it tolerates values that directly conflict with its core principles?

SPEAKER_02

No. I don't think so. I think it that will just be it will create like the post, and that will create the divisions. Like this is like our area, this is your area, you do what you want over there, we're not gonna accept it over here. I think um, and I don't know if that's natural. I I think it is, but it's like um I think in a tolerant society, I think people welcome people in. But I think if the line's drawn and you're like, well, that behavior is absolutely unacceptable, we're not gonna tolerate that, then you then there's lines in the sand drawn. And I think that's where it's like, okay, well, if I'm gonna do this, I can do it over here, but I'm not gonna be able to get away with it over here. So I I don't think it can be harmonious if if it's so egregious that it's just intolerable.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. Which is crazy because I feel like that's kind of where we are today, is we can't even agree on some fundamental values in America anymore, right? Which is that that is, I think, is the more scarier part about where we are in time. Right. Right? Like the beauty of America when it was built was the idea that again, we can have all these different ideas and stuff, but we still have the same core values, like the same traditions. I mean, whether people like it or dislike it, it was founded on Christian principles. That's what the West was founded upon.

SPEAKER_01

Right.

SPEAKER_04

You know. Um obviously the founders had enough wisdom to realize that not everybody's gonna agree with this exact religion and some of these other things. So we'll we'll put a mechanism in place that says like you're free to practice, you know, your own things, just so as long as you do it safely and you don't encroach upon other people's rights.

SPEAKER_03

Right.

SPEAKER_04

And they also understood that it is really difficult to get, like, the bigger a nation or body of people becomes, it's harder to get everybody to agree on everything. Oh, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02

So that's and I wouldn't want everybody to agree on.

SPEAKER_04

Oh, and so you have to have, and like that, I think that was the biggest fear of the founding fathers was like you're gonna get these factions that are created, and everybody's gonna like almost like tribalism, right? You create you know your own ideas and you just end up with conflict. But that's why they split up the United States into 50 states and gave states rights and gave it the ability to more locally make decisions that make sense for your area. But nowadays you have people that don't even want like states' rights anymore, right? Like you brought up the abortion subject. Well, people freaked out when Donald Trump made the statement that should be up to the states to decide. Let their voter base decide on the issue. It should not be the national government's job to there's two opposing views that are couldn't be more opposite, right?

SPEAKER_02

And to force you're not gonna change the viewpoints of the other. Yeah, like so. It's like, okay, if this state overwhelmingly doesn't want it, don't say like you have to do it now. Yeah, and this state wants to do it, and it's like just state issue is, I think, the most diplomatic way to do it and be like, okay, it's available, you have to go on a drive, but at the same time to say no to the entire country. Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_04

It's much easier to resolve conflict with fewer people. Oh, absolutely. So if you think about it, like that's why it's better for states to make decisions and then local governments, right? That's why you have local governments as well. Like cities are free to create their own regulations. Yeah, municipalities. Right. They can create, you know, counties, municipalities, they can create their own regulations unique to their local area. Right. When you have a federal government that tries to impose the rules for everything you do that maybe are irrelevant to your local county, it doesn't make sense, and that creates greater conflict. And then it's hard to solve because there's so many people you have to battle against. You see this in companies too, like uh culture, for example. It's a lot easier to create a culture on one small company of 15 to 20 people. Right. Because you're only getting you need 15 people to buy into your beliefs, your ideas, your core values. That's a lot easier to get than a company of 50,000 people. Something like Amazon. Like Amazon, if they wanted to create a a really like strict culture, I think it would be a lot harder to implement in a company like that where people work all over the globe. There some of them are virtual workers, like it's really difficult.

SPEAKER_02

But you're a business, so you get to kind of set the parameters of it. It's kind of like, yeah, like being the you know, going to your smaller example, I think of like tolerance in terms of like as a coach, and you're like, you you know me very well. I do not tolerate people being late. Yeah. Like that's gonna just get under my skin every single time. I have a consequence, whatever. But what if they're like, coach, it's not a big deal? Yeah, it's okay if they show up late. Well, then what is it, two minutes late, okay? Ten minutes late, okay? Half an hour late, it's okay. Yeah. And then them getting like, wait, now like it affects their playing time.

SPEAKER_04

Well, then it affects the other players on the team who are like, why is it okay that I'm disciplined and I show up early? I don't want to get out of bed early. I don't want to, you know, have to show up from playing video games early to practice or whatever. And I get the same playing time as the guy who shows up late all the time because it's not that big of a deal. It's a great example of why, again, tolerance can erode culture, motivation. It can even like not even talking about big, broad ideas, but just like that, like on a team. Right. It can destroy morale of a team when you tolerate things that should not be tolerated.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Uh the you know, from coaching with you for a while, the the quote I often give um what you tolerate becomes a standard. Yeah. And I think that's maybe a Jocko uh quote, but it it is. It's like what you tolerate, what you choose to tolerate becomes the standard. So if you tolerate people showing up late and there's no consequences, there's no thing, guess what? It's amazing how many people should start showing up late. If you're like, no, I will not tolerate people showing up late, it will cost you your playing time and your starting spot or whatever. It's amazing how many people show up on time. And so, again, the expectations versus consequences, holding people accountable, all those things. And that is something that as a coach, you're generally in control of. That's like one of the few controls that you have. Now, kids and players, they all have their things. Some people have just the most things. And you can see when you interact with them, their parents, whatever, it's like, oh my gosh, you're gonna have all the things all the time, all the excuses. Um, but you just have to set your your rule, your line, and you're like, this is it. And you either adhere to it or you don't adhere to it, and don't come crying and complaining to me. Expectations have been set. Um, but I think that's for a team that can go to business and that can go to a lot of people. It expands outward though, from like right, and it's more powerful when you do it as a coach. That's one thing, right? That's one component of it. But when it becomes powerful is when the team does it, when it's like you don't have to tell the kid who shows up late that bear crawls are the pendants to play to join for the privilege to join our practice. And then maybe you see them just start doing them as they know they're late, and then sometimes you'll see the one that's like, oh, coach doesn't watch, and I'll just kind of slip into line. And the team calls them out and they're like, No, no, no, no, no, dude. Like, no, no, no, you are late. And then it that's when it becomes powerful, is when the group says that's unacceptable. We're not tolerating that. You're not doing what's in the best interest of the team. Get her on time, or that's that's just the results. We're all gonna hold each other accountable for it.

SPEAKER_04

So I like the analogy of comparing like a sports team to America and having a unified goal and basic core beliefs that are your expectations and fundamentals. So let me ask you this if you were to think of America as a team and you're the coach, what kind of grade would you give America right now and why?

SPEAKER_02

Um There's so many components to that.

SPEAKER_04

I the things pretend all the little different bickering and arguments you see on the media, those are those are players on your team. So liberals are, you know, as is a as a group of players, you have the conservative conservatives as a group of players, they're all bickering. Like, how how do you address it?

SPEAKER_02

Well, I think I mean I would definitely give it in putting it in those regards, I would definitely give it a like a not passing grade, like because ultimately the lack of collaboration um has become too extreme. Um, I think the divide between uh the Democrats and the Republicans is been too extreme. Now, who's responsible for that? I think most would probably claim Donald Trump is. Um and maybe he's right, he's an extreme personality. Um, do I agree with him calling people stupid the way he does? No, I think it that's a divisive tactic. Yeah. Um but at the same time, I wish a lot of people wouldn't be so stupid when they they they talk to him. Um but that being said, um I was I was really hoping, and I don't want this to be all political and whatever, even though I know we we're getting into some touchy subjects. But my my hope was really after he won the last election that the Democrat Party would, you know, kind of reset and just go, okay, we've gone too far with these ideas. Let's take a deep breath, let's get it back more to neutral, and let's present things that are more um debatable versus extreme. Uh unfortunately, they have not done that. There's they still do wild ass shit. And I think the conservative group did it several years ago with like Mitt Romney and stuff like that. It's like they got worked over and they went, let's go back to the drawing board, let's reassess, let's put together a better product. Let's and um I think for the most part they have, and I would love to have seen, I would love to have seen that with more of the Democrat Party, where it's like, okay, let's not go to the so extreme that we're we're dying on the hill for men competing in women's sports. That's not a controversial issue to America. Like Americans are like, no, that's dumb. You know, voter ID to vote in elections. That's not a controversial uh issue. It's not to everybody except for their platform. Like, and it's like, so people are like, okay, like yeah, uh citizens should vote in the elections. Like, I shouldn't be able to go to France tomorrow and vote in their election. Like, that's insane. That's not even weird. Right, I wouldn't think that that would even be an option, nor should it. So to argue on that, there's no logic or sense to it. So I what I'm hoping in the near future is that they get it back together and come with discussion points that fit the majority that and they can win points to where it's like questionable, but like uh who choked for they have they have different beliefs, and I don't know the best one to do it, but none of them are just like outside the box, like batshit crazy.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, the challenge with this, and I want to keep using the sports analogy because I think it's a good visual, though, is like you're waiting on one of the groups that are bickering to just stop fighting for their position and have some sort of agreement. Right. How unlikely is that, though? If you had a group of kids fighting right now on the it would take the coach to just say, Everybody, shut the fuck up, eyes on me. Here's what we're gonna do. Let's get back to the basic fundamentals of what we agree. I don't care who started it, I don't care who thinks are right or wrong, let's get back to focusing on a few core things, right? Like, let's collaborate. Right. And this is what I guess this would be my critique of Donald Trump would be he's missing an opportunity as a coach of the country to say, everybody just stop. Like, let's kind of reset. Let's at the very least, can we all agree upon a few things and then can we just work on some ideas to accomplish those things? Right.

SPEAKER_02

And I I I think I don't think he's the guy for that. He's not, he's not the guy for that. The funny part is, and again, why why are we going to politics? But it's like he is not, he didn't run super conservative. Yeah, he's not like it's so no people hate him and his personality, they hate his personality, which makes him people not willing to work with him. And so maybe, you know, like if if it becomes a thing where let's say JD Vance comes in and wins the next election, the Democrats go, okay, let's go back to the drive because he's not as controversial. Yeah, he's he's you know, he's well spoken, he presents himself well, he makes sense in a lot of can things, and it's like he wants to go back to common sense, and it's crazy that the conservative blueprint was to to regain power, was just can we just operate with common sense? Yeah, like that was the thing, and then let the Democrats just kind of go off and do their own thing and represent crazy, yeah. And I would love for them, like I would love to go back to debates where you could kind of see both both sides of the coin, and you're like, ah, that could be good, that could be good, but it's gotten so extreme that it's weird.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, no, that's the problem, is uh Donald Trump is his own worst enemy, which is disappointing because, like you, I mean, I mean, I agree with there's not many decisions that he's made from like a you know, leading the country standpoint. I really disagree with. It's it's his personality, he's very, you know.

SPEAKER_02

He gets involved in things that are beneath his office.

SPEAKER_04

It's his approach, it's the way he speaks about things, it's the way he talks about the issues, it's very abrasive, which sucks because it's hard to get buy-in from people when you speak that way.

SPEAKER_02

Like but I think that monster was created because when I was growing up, like why are we going politics? Uh, when I was growing up, it was very much a like I it felt like, and again, from my viewpoint, it would felt like Democrats would just sling mud, and conservatives were like Christian, whole trying to be holier than thou, but they they were unrelatable, so they would just get mud, like he's a piece of shit, blah blah blah.

SPEAKER_00

And then the the the conservatives would be like, no, let's we gotta talk about the economy. They're like, fuck you, we don't care about.

SPEAKER_02

And then all of a sudden, you have a guy like Donald Trump, who's a celebrity, who comes in is just like, hey, fuck you, stupid. I'm not taking your bullshit, and then it's like, whoa, and conservatives were like, finally, somebody's speaking up that we're not idiots, we're not monster. And so then, like, it gets a rallying cry behind him. And again, he wants to run it like a business, sure. Um, but he's an extreme example, a polarizing figure, even. Even though a lot of his policies go more conservative, but those policies would be more liberal like 15, 20 years ago. So the fact that those policies that would be liberal are now so conservative shows that they've gone kind of a different way.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. Yeah, it's tough. But I guess my point in all that though was to say like it's almost like we need a we need a coach. Yeah. Right? We need a good coach who can see both sides of arguments and have the have the ability to just rally everybody to like at least agree on some core fundamentals and get back to basics. Right. Which is going back to this whole idea of like, you know, having a unified country, we've gotten so far, I don't know how you want to say it, just mixed up that we don't even agree on the basic fundamentals of our country anymore. And so how do we overcome that?

SPEAKER_02

And that's that's can you and can you long-term survive? I mean, if you go to the downfall of Rome, you go to the downfall of different societies, it's like you get pulled apart, and there's so many different ideas of what what how the erode as a as a society, and it's like, is America on that path of um eroding because you have so many different ideas that you can't agree on common sense ideas, like and we should be should be spending a lot of time figuring out okay, is this economic plan better than this economic plan? How does it affect and how do we help? But when you have the sides that are just like the bringing up their issues that are so out of left field, you're like you're not even spending time focused on the real problems, like you're focused on almost fictitious problems or so minute problems. It's like we're talking about the football player, it's like you know, you're talking about a football team or a sports team, and they're worried about, you know, is there should I have a stripe on the side of the pants? Right. Versus worrying about the plays and worrying about the practice schedule. Like you're gonna say that doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_04

We're not even focused on coming up with the best solutions anymore. We're more focused on proving that we're right and that you're wrong.

SPEAKER_02

Right. Or just hate, right? It's like you're stupid, and there's lack of dialogue, right? Yeah, council culture, like, hey, you do this or else. Yeah, and I mean, and it goes both ways. Like, I mean, remember, what was it? Um was it uh Bud Light or Budweiser that had like the cans with the gay pride flag or something on it, and then all the conservatives like hell no, I'll never buy that Bud Light again.

SPEAKER_04

It was the uh the trainee spokesperson or whatever they hired, right?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, and then you're like, Well, Budweiser does a lot of stuff for a lot of causes, and and they okay, they just did their thing, but that's I guess that's some people's way of drawing their line in the sand, right? You sit there and you go, like, hey, if you're gonna say something that I completely disagree with, or you're gonna represent something that I'm I'm against that I find intolerable, then I'm I'm just not gonna support your business. I'm just gonna buy another product instead. And that's I think a more effective protest than going on social media and and whining about it. You're like, all right, I'm just not gonna buy your product anymore. And I'm not gonna watch your movies if it's if you're really caught up on what celebrities care about or you know how their political views are. You're just like, I don't care. But if you're like, I'm not watching this movie because he thinks Trump is the bee's knees, or he or they hate Trump like what I'm not watching, like, okay. Sure, it doesn't harm anybody. It's just it's fine, uh kind of a financial attack. And there that's the beauty of I think the freedom of speech is you have the ability to say what you want in this country, which is a beautiful thing, but you're also you can be held accountable for it.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Do I think there should be you know big plans to like destroy the person who says their opinion or voices their opinion? Like I was thankful that when Chris Pratt, you know, speaking of Christians, he came out very you know, very open about his faith. And I remember going like, oh man, Hollywood's not gonna like that. They're gonna, you know, and still seems to be crushing it. And but I I don't think I think there's tons of examples of um that not being the case, where somebody s speaks out on an issue and it right the rug gets ripped out from them. Um, but there's a cajillion of reasons why that happens aggressive.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, and who knows how many roles he didn't get looked at because of his position now, though. Right, which is a sad reality. But I mean, people like you said, people are free to choose what they stand for and there's consequences for what you say. Um so yeah, it's interesting topic. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

And I I think it ultimately I think it when I think of tolerance, I think of the levels. And that's I think the biggest takeaway that I got from today is I have an ability to tolerate or not tolerate what I find acceptable. People being late, people lying to me, you know, whatever I find to be intolerable. Think about how that affects you and your family, right? I mean, maybe your your your children do something that you're like, ooh, I'm not gonna tolerate that. So you have the ability to address that. And then you go to a bigger scope in your your neighborhood, and you're like, I don't like that. And so you and then you can go to your city, and it just it's um, but I think where it's really tough is when it becomes such a big scope, and you're talking about a you know, the big entity of like America, yeah, and you're like, so much of our strength and so much of our greatness comes from our ability and willingness to tolerate ideas, and that's where great ideas come from. You look at go down, drive down the road, and all the different foods and all the different ideas, and you know, how that's helped people become successful entrepreneurs. Wonderful, right? But then you get with the good comes some of the bad, and you're like, well, that's not good for society. Let me just kind of shield my kids' eyes from that. I'm not gonna, you know, I don't want to be a part of that and kind of just steer clear. But again, when people start pushing that envelope and they keep pushing the envelope, it can be for good or for bad, and so yeah, I agree.

SPEAKER_04

Takeaway with tolerance is you do have the right to choose what you tolerate, right? And stand firm in it. So cool. Well, I think that was uh another great episode of the Broken Perspective Podcast. Let us know if we missed something on tolerance. What are your guys' thoughts? Um, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Thanks for uh the listen. If you're still there, uh smash that uh subscribe button. Till next time, peace. See, you can see that.