Broken Perspective

Brotherhood, Combat, and Loss | Memorial Day With Paul Miovas Ep. 8

• Colby Abbott, Jeff Daigle • Season 1 • Episode 8

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This Memorial Day, we pause the noise and remember the men and women who gave everything in service to this country.

In this special episode of the Broken Perspective Podcast, we sit down with our friend Paul Miovas as he shares raw and deeply personal stories from his deployment to Afghanistan. From the chaos of combat and the brotherhood forged in war… to the heartbreaking reality of losing friends overseas, this episode is about sacrifice, memory, and the cost of freedom.

Paul opens up about what it was really like serving in some of the most dangerous areas of Afghanistan, the moments that changed him forever, and the emotional weight veterans carry long after coming home. At the end of the episode, Paul also reads a powerful personal letter he wrote to his fallen brothers — a moment we will never forget.

To every service member who never made it home… we remember you.

🇺🇸 Memorial Day Special
 🎙️ Broken Perspective Podcast

#MemorialDay #Veterans #MilitaryStories #AfghanistanWar #BrokenPerspectivePodcast #NeverForget #GoldStarFamilies #CombatVeteran #Patriotism #FreedomIsNotFree

Appreciate you all for tuning in! Be sure to share some feedback or differing perspectives. We welcome it all. For most the action, follow us on Instagram: 

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SPEAKER_00

The move to contact essentially means like, hey, there's this really like I think we we think we found a bad valley. I just want you guys to walk through that to see what happens. And once you get shot at, we know it's a bad valley. So that's like a move to contact. You're like, cool, like let's just go fucking be guinea pigs and we're gonna walk through this valley. And then I guess you guys will know if it's a bad valley when we start getting fucking shot at. So that's a move to contact. Or disrupt the enemy is thank you.

SPEAKER_02

Thank you for selecting me for this.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, sir. Oh, cool. Yeah, I'd love to go do this.

SPEAKER_03

They make it sound cooler than it is.

SPEAKER_00

Like, yeah. Oh, you're just a canary in the fucking mine shaft, right? You're just like, oh, this is great. Oh, oh shit. All right, you know, I'm dead.

SPEAKER_03

Because if they called it that, people probably would be like, fuck no.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah, right. Or you're gonna go do anyways, because that's you know, that's what you signed up for. Yeah. Or like disrupt the enemy means we're gonna be put in a bad spot and you're gonna disrupt them by them shooting at you, right?

SPEAKER_03

Welcome to Broken Perspective Podcast, where we challenge beliefs, learn from others, and aim to be better people. My name is Colby.

SPEAKER_02

And I'm Jeff. Today we're doing a special Memorial Day episode to honor those who sacrificed everything.

SPEAKER_03

And what better person to help us do that today than our good friend Paul Maiovis? Paul served in the United States Army from 2004 to 2007. He later joined law enforcement to continue his service at home, which is where the three of us met. Today, Paul's here to share a little bit about his military experience, but also share some personal stories about the men and women who served beside him. Before we jump into all that though, gentlemen, what are we drinking?

SPEAKER_02

Ooh, today we have the numb and numbber uh classic spin-off of Dumb and Dumber, a great movie. And that's from Fall River Brewing, which is up in Reading. So it's a uh double IPA. Thank you. Let's try this uh try this now. If you're gonna fit into the tradition of this show, you're gonna do an awful pour.

SPEAKER_00

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Oh yeah, we've all taken our turn.

SPEAKER_03

See who gets the best pour here. You're all right.

SPEAKER_02

There we are. I'm actually getting pretty good. Yeah, perfect amount. Not bad, but oh yeah, that's classic. That's a commercial S. I've seen better.

SPEAKER_03

But that's pretty good right there. All right, cheers, my friend. Appreciate it. Absolutely. Cheers. Thanks for coming in. Cheers. Absolutely. All right, everybody can get a sip and then we'll uh then we'll begin.

SPEAKER_02

Fantastic. Well done.

SPEAKER_03

I like it. I always feel a little bit bad for the people at home because they gotta sit and like wait for us to enjoy our nice, tasty beer.

SPEAKER_02

It's so good. It actually probably makes us uh our communication a little better.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I think so. Although they could be drinking at home too while they listen to us. You're welcome to do it. I know if I was at home listening to us, I'd probably have to drink.

SPEAKER_00

100%.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. All right, well, cool. Well, first and foremost, before we get going, I just want to say, Paul, thank you so much for coming in today. It's an absolute honor to have you here on our show and your willingness to come in today and share some personal stories about your time in the uh the military. I know it's not always easy to do, but I I have a lot of admiration for those who are willing to come out here and you know and share their experience. So thank you.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, and thank you for your service.

SPEAKER_00

I appreciate that, and thanks for giving me the opportunity to speak uh about some of my friends that um uh I deeply uh um feel emotional about and uh hopefully I can tell a story and keep their memory alive.

SPEAKER_03

Alright, so before we get going, um obviously we're here to hear about your service experience and hear some some of your stories, but um tell us a little bit about like what life looked like before the military. What was growing up like?

SPEAKER_00

Growing up, uh I spent most of my time in uh Sonoma, California. Um I know Sonoma everybody thinks rich people, uh, wine, grapes. Uh I think we were probably the poorest family in Sonoma. Um I bring that up because it's kind of funny. The first time I was ever on a plane was on my way to basic training. Never even seen inside of a inside of an airport before. So I think everybody kind of has like a a weird uh you know, like what the fuck moment uh when they sign up for the military because they're like, what uh what did I just do? You know? And so I had that nervousness going to the airport and then having never been in the airport just made that ten times worse because here I am. I I think my dad dropped me off at the Oakland airport, never been to the airport before, and then I'm flying across the country to Georgia to basic training, and uh that's that's how uh everything kind of kind of began.

SPEAKER_02

Any uh any fear of flying?

SPEAKER_00

Uh I don't I don't know. But if you didn't have it, you were like, yeah, I don't know. Yeah, yeah, no clue. I was like, I was hoping that there wasn't any, and uh thankfully there wasn't. So um it's just it's just weird. Like uh you're so stressed out, and then you know, like everybody was saying, hey, just at some point you'll see a bunch of other people like in military fatigues, and you just follow those people. And I'm like, cool, all right, thanks for the advice. And I'm just trying to figure out the airport and make it to where I needed to go, essentially.

SPEAKER_03

So ultimately you make this decision to join the military, but like what um did you have any family members that were in the military? Was your dad in the military? Like, how does this all even come about?

SPEAKER_00

I kind of skipped a generation. So my my grandfather, he was in the Navy for like 30 years. He retired as a master chief. And uh it was funny when I told him I'd joined the army, he was pissed. Like right, and I like I always make fun of him too, because uh he was a weatherman in the Navy. I guess that's like an important job there. But I was like, hey, I wanted to go do something like cool, like actually have like a real job. Like actually.

SPEAKER_03

That's what you said to him?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, kinda.

SPEAKER_03

Did you say that before or after your service?

SPEAKER_00

He's a big dude, he's like 6'2, so like uh yeah. So I it was weird. Like uh my dad even told me too. He's like, You join up for the army, your your grandpa's gonna be pissed. And I was like, okay, but I wanted to like do cool stuff. I wanted to like fly around helicopters, jump out of planes, shoot guns, and like I uh the recruiter probably saw me like coming from miles like a million miles away, like, oh, here we go, this guy. I'm gonna I'm gonna sign him up for some cool shit, and I'm just gonna be able to talk him into anything because that's essentially what he did.

SPEAKER_03

So and um so the army, why did you why did you choose the army amongst the other service branches that you could have chosen?

SPEAKER_00

I wish I would have talked to somebody. So I had a good buddy, uh, we're just gonna call him Pepe. Everybody from Sonoma's gonna know who I'm talking about. Um, good friend of mine. We're high school buddies, we did everything together. He joined the Marines. I looked in the Marines, I didn't like the fact that you had to sign up for four years. The army, you can do a three-year minimum. So I was like, I didn't never what if I don't like this? Like I can do three years instead of four, right? And the army, you got to pick your MOS, your military occupation specialty. So you guys essentially got to pick your job. So I like the fact that you got to pick your job and I can only do three years. So if I hated it, I just got out in three years. Um, and then if I liked it, I can uh re-enlist. And there's usually huge huge bonuses with that too. So I was like, okay, just do three years. So if I hated, I'm out. If not, re-enlist and get some more money. So I like options essentially.

SPEAKER_02

Smart.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. Okay, so you choose the army. Did you have a friend or with friend with you at all at this time, or is this just you, Paul, on your own making this decision? Like, hey, not sure what I want to do, like I'm gonna I'm gonna go this route.

SPEAKER_00

I hated high school. Um, I knew I had to do something with my life um to not be a complete loser, I guess. So I had to make like a really abrupt decision or a really important decision at that point in my life. So either I'm gonna be a loser and never do anything in my life, or I gotta make a really important decision to turn my life around. And so I'm like, let's just let's just do something. Right. You know, let's just make a choice and then the military seemed like a good one. I don't know. So uh joined the military, and then here I am. I think I made the right decision. So I'm got a beautiful family, uh, good job. So obviously I did I made the right one.

SPEAKER_02

So when you got to choose your job in the army, what jobs did you choose?

SPEAKER_00

Oh god. Uh the infantry. So uh again, like I said, I wanted to jump out of airplanes, you know, fly around a helicopter, shoot stuff. And when I told the recruiter that, he's like, you know what? Have you ever heard of the infantry? I was like, uh, kinda. Aren't those the guys that get shot at and you shoot back? And he's like, Yeah. I was like, that kind of does sound fun. Yeah. Tell me more about that. And so such a young man thing to say. Right? Yeah. So um picked that, and then it again, it was fun. Um, I maybe would have like older me would have probably picked a different job, so I had some actual skills when I came out of the military. Right. It's hard to like kind of get a job when they're like, hey, what what's your uh what's your qualifications? I was like, I don't know. I can run really fast and I can shoot stuff, and they're like, okay, I'm hot. Okay. Um I wish I would have picked like helicopter pilot or something. I don't know. Right. Something actually had some skills and but it but it was also a lot of fun. Like yeah, I had a great time. And you are where you are. Correct. So I I don't think I would change anything, but um yeah, I had a good time.

SPEAKER_03

That's good. Okay, so walk me through this. So you're 18 years old from Sonoma County. Um haven't really done a lot of traveling in your life at that point. You get on an airplane, and where is where's basic training at for those who don't know in the army? Where's that where's that at? What the what were the emotions you were going through as you're now on this new adventure?

SPEAKER_00

So infantry training for the army uh was at Fort Benning, Georgia. Uh it was in Sand Hill, and it was just a huge uh infantry training center. Uh emotions was I don't even know, I couldn't even explain it. It was like so overwhelming. Like you're right, you're 18 years old, you get ripped away from everything you've ever known, away from everybody. Um, and you're just put in this spot in early, and you just it was just the most wild thing you can ever think of. Like I I it's it's so hard to even explain. Like, you don't know anybody, you don't know anything, and you're just thrown into this big machine called this army, and then you're expected to just figure it out. It's it's wild to even think about, and it's like hard to explain to like people that haven't lived it. I don't even like I I can't even have the I don't even have the words to explain it.

SPEAKER_03

Right. So you get there, and where do you first go? Like, what does it look like? Do you go check in somewhere? What is the environment like?

SPEAKER_00

So it's it's called like a replacement company, and you wait to go downrange, we call it. So you so you're at this replacement company, a bunch of people, and there's just lines everywhere. So it's like in processing. So paperwork, uh, chow hall, um, you're buying stuff, medical lines, like there's lines everywhere. There's just a bunch of people on lines doing stuff. Um it's funny, one of these stories that like stick in my mind is we're in line and we enter this room and it's full of mats, like wrestling mats, if you can think of that. And they're like on the walls and everything. I'm like, what the what the fuck happens in this room? And then you're just in line, and you're just you no one tells you what's going on either. You're just in this room, and you're just a private, like you, you no one cares about you. So you're just walking through, and like these medics start just you're just getting shots. No one tells you what they are, no one cares to tell you anything, and you're just getting a bunch of shots.

SPEAKER_02

Like, I don't belong to the government now. Yeah, we all we are all inject you with what we want. 100%.

SPEAKER_00

And you're like, I probably had those shots already, but fuck it, I guess I'm getting them again. Um, so you get all these shots and you're waiting in line, and then you get a huge uh what I I didn't know at the time, but someone told me afterwards, it was a big penicillin shot in your butt cheek. And that thing fucking hurt. Like it's like a baseball in your ass cheek. And they're like, hey, just go in your shower and like just massage it in the shower, it'll eventually go away. So at that point, after people got like this big penicillin shot, people started passing out and shit everywhere. And I'm like, oh, okay, well, these mats make sense. I I get it now. And so after the penicillin shot, then you go get your blood drawn. So it's like fucking craziness. The whole line is just craziness. So, like, I'm like, okay, someone obviously passed out, probably broke their head, and now they have like mats everywhere. I'm like, okay, at least safety first, right?

SPEAKER_03

So and are you are you talking to guys next to you in line?

SPEAKER_00

No, you can't talk. Oh, you can't talk. No, absolutely not.

SPEAKER_02

Otherwise, you guys would collaborate and be like, this is stupid.

SPEAKER_00

Let's follow up.

SPEAKER_03

Or you get smoked, like you're not. That's intentional, like everybody just follow in line, shut up, don't ask questions.

SPEAKER_00

That was everywhere. When you're when you're a new private, you don't talk, you don't you just shut up and you do what you're supposed to do. And if you're talking, you're getting smoked. And getting smoked means like you're doing push-ups, you're running, you're doing jumper jacks, and you're just a private, you're nobody until you prove yourself in the army. So you just shut up and you try to stay awake and you're just in line. That's literally all you do.

SPEAKER_03

Well, sounds amazing. Who wants to join? So tell me about the first like 48 hours. Like, what are some of the emotions you're feeling? Are you ever feeling anything like what the fuck did I just sign up for? Like, what does that look like?

SPEAKER_00

100%. Um, what the fuck did I do? Was this the right decision? Um, loneliness, like you're like, I almost describe it since I I know what it kind of looks like working in the jails, working in the jails. Um, it's just a bunch of bunk beds in this huge like warehouse, and you're just in there, and you're like, I don't know, top bunk, bottom bunk, and you're just like in this room with a bunch of people, and then like they have certain times, okay. Chow, okay, never mind. You know, everybody is going to this room to do paperwork, and you're just like shouldered around like a bunch of cattle, essentially. And yeah, you the realization, like, fuck. Like it constantly replays in your mind, like, did I do the right thing? I don't know. But again, again, it pays off in the end, man. Like, I would never take anything back, but it's it's an experience for sure.

SPEAKER_03

So, how long is basic training?

SPEAKER_00

Oh man, I'm gonna I'm probably gonna get this wrong. Um I wanna say the Oh man, my arm the army guys are gonna tear me apart on this one. Um I wanna say like three or four months, and then you have AIT right after that, which is like uh accelerated training just for infantry.

unknown

Okay.

SPEAKER_00

So that's another couple months. Man, someone's gonna tear me apart. Don't don't tear me apart. Um and then it it I I joined in uh a long time ago. It's been like 20 years, so don't tear me apart. Um but it's usually people have basic training and then they have a break and then they go to AIT. Like I remember we have basic training and then we graduate and they said, Okay, take a step forward. Welcome to AIT. So we went right into it, like there was no break at all. So um, yeah, it was okay. It was a little crazy.

SPEAKER_03

So you go through basic training. Uh I I picture the only thing I can relate it to is like kind of an academy for the police department experience, like a lot of PT, you know, you're learning some things, learning the culture, kind of getting yelled at, trying to be taught to look out for one another. Is that kind of a similar experience?

SPEAKER_00

Sure, yeah. Um, I mean, you learn a lot of like basic stuff, like you do a lot of shooting. I I guess it kind of depends on your job, right? Your MOS. Like I was infantry, we do a lot of like moving under contact, a lot of shooting, um, like anything to do with like getting shot at or shooting. Like we did a lot of medical stuff, um, grenade throwing. Like there was a lot of just anything that had to do with combat is what we were doing. Like we did uh bayonet drills, we're like stabbing stuff and like doing chants, like what makes the green grass grow? Blood, blood, blood. You know, like it was like very, very, very weird now that I look back at it, but like you're 18 years old, or like this is this is the shit, you know, you're like all about it. So uh road marches, lots of road marches, like your feet are like falling apart, road marches. Like I think it ended with like a 25-mile road march, and if you ever walk 25 miles, fucking sucks.

SPEAKER_03

Doesn't sound uh too exciting.

SPEAKER_02

No. Anybody uh that I mean you obviously probably come close with several people during that that time. Any funny stories from people that you uh during that time?

SPEAKER_00

Well, it's it's funny too, because you're broken up by alphabet, so all the M's were together. So it was like me, a b uh a buddy of mine named Mackinho, I'm still friends with on Facebook, and uh this guy named Middleton. So we had like this bunk, and we're like all the M's were together, right? So I'm guessing like everybody in the alphabet were all kind of close with each other. Right? So I was close to all the M's because we kind of like held it down over there in the corner. Um But there's like there's always like some Joker in the in the bay, right? Uh in the in the barracks. Um there's this one dude who always sneak away. I have no idea how we did it. He would go to like a vending machine and he would get fucking like Snickers, like all kind of shit, and he would sell it to all of us. Like he would be like, hey man, like he was always trading shit, and he would be hiding stuff up in like we had like a false uh ceiling like this where he would like hide shit up in the ceiling. Um man, it was wild. Uh one at one point there was this guy who decided we're towards the end of basic and he decided to get chocolate milk from the chow hall, and the drill instructor's like, Oh, you oh you want chocolate milk? And he made him like drink chocolate milk so he threw up. Like it's just wild. Like it's so hard to explain to like a like a civilian that has never been to the army, like they they don't give up, they don't give a shit about you. And there's a reason why they do that, they want to build you up, they want to break you all the way down and build you back up as a better person. Right. So I get it looking back, but man, when you're living that and you're like, holy shit, and they like make you chug water every day, like your canteen has to be empty, you're running, like, ugh there's there's a lot going on, yeah, all the time, like non-stop. Fire watch, people waking you up, you get mad if they wake you up 10 minutes early. Right. Like there's always this like the rotation, like someone always has to be awake, and then uh oh man, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Who is who is the drill sergeant that stood out?

SPEAKER_00

I remember drill sergeant cotton. I I actually remember his name, it's which is weird. He uh I he had this like crazy reputation, repetition, repetition, rep reputation, reputation, sorry. Um supposedly he'd been to Iraq already, he came back, and now he was a drill instructor, and then like I have no idea if this is true. This is just the the rumor that was going through uh all the recruits was like he was in Iraq and he's going through like these um these uh ditches or this culverts or something, and he had a shotgun, he's just blasting these fucking guys and with a shotgun, and we're like, holy shit, this guy's crazy. And he would act crazy too. Like he would be looking at you, and I'm like, damn, this guy, this guy's fucking insane, dude. Like the way he would look at you, I'm like, man, I wouldn't I would never ever want to mess with this guy ever. So that's so weird. I just recalled his name like that. Yeah, drill sergeant caught, and I remember him. Um man, I think that's the only one that actually comes to mind right now. But he he was like the guy on the bar. Like you see him, and you're like, nope, not not ever, ever gonna even mess with that guy or talk to him or anything. Like, you know, like he pushes you, you're like, okay, cool. Hey, have a good night, dude. You like see?

SPEAKER_03

Nice. Yeah, okay, so obviously there comes a time where boot camp ends, and you do you get to pick like your first duty station? Like, how does that how does that play out?

SPEAKER_00

So uh the army call calls it like the wish list, right? So they call it wish list for a reason. So I already like told myself, like, hey, like if you were gonna do this, like go go all the way. So I already said, like, hey, try try to go to a different country, like try to see the world. So I remember on my wish list, right? You're like writing it down, or like, okay, I was like, I knew there was like a unit in Italy, all right, Italy. I was like, cool, Germany. I knew there was a unit in Germany, I was like, cool, Germany. And I was like, okay, Hawaii. I was like, cool, those are my three. Smit my little wish list, and then like they have like a kind of like a normal uh meeting, or like everybody in the barracks like comes up to this thing where they're like giving out duty stations. All the drill instructors are there, they call it your name, and you're like, cool, I'm like, I'm like ready. I'm like, cool, am I gonna go to Italy? This is gonna be cool, right? And they're like, uh, my Ovis, uh Fort Drum, New York. I'm like, what the fuck? That was not I wasn't even close to my wishlist. Like, I was like not even.

SPEAKER_03

At least running out of the country.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. And like, dude, I remember like the drill instructor was like, Oh, this poor bastard's going to fucking Fort Drum. Good luck. And they knew I was from California, like, good luck, called boy. Like, it fucking snows a lot up there. And I'm like, oh man, well, cool. That's gonna suck, you know? So definitely wish list for a reason. I don't know if anybody even actually got anything on their wish list.

SPEAKER_02

So just hope. They just put hope. It's just like hey, hope what you want.

SPEAKER_03

Cool, that's neat to give you that little moment of excitement.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, just broken you on broken dreams and promises, dude. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Jeez. So Ford Drum.

SPEAKER_00

Just to build you up, you know? Right.

SPEAKER_03

Ford Drum, you said that's called, right?

SPEAKER_00

Ford Drum, yeah. And what city is it in? Uh it's right outside Watertown. Um, super upstate New York. Like uh, it's so when we used to party, we weren't none of us were 21 yet, so we would drive to Canada. That's how close we were upstate New York. We're like, we can drive to Canada essentially.

SPEAKER_03

Okay, so what do you do when you get to your first station?

SPEAKER_00

Ugh Um So I was uh I was sent to 287, the Catamounts, um, the battalion there. And uh it they just got back from a deployment to Afghanistan. So, like literally us new guys were going to a like a battalion that just got back from war. And I was like, oh, this is gonna suck, right? So you're this new guy trying to fit into all these dudes that just came back from war. And um I had to find someone to like bunk with, I guess, or like share a room with because we all shared rooms. And I remember all these like senior specialist dudes that just got back, and they're like, you know, just fighting wars, and they just came back, and there's like these really cool dudes. That have all these like cool badges and shit that I wanted. And uh it was almost like an interview. And this one dude came up to me, ended up being super cool, dude. Super cool. I wish I remembered his name. But it was like almost like an interview. He goes, Hey, do you do you take a shower every day? I go, Yeah, yeah. I'm I'm I like to be clean, dude. Like take actually take like three showers a day. How about that? You know? And he's like, Do you pick up after yourself? I'm like, Yeah. He's like, all right. He's like, I pick this guy. You know, it was like it was like that's all he cares. Selling people off, dude. Yeah, that's like all I care. Like, he just won't want some dirty ass dude living in his room, which I totally understand. There's some like gross people in the military, like from all walks of life, right? So he just wanted a normal dude that wasn't gonna be fucking gross. Fair enough. Yeah, and I get it.

SPEAKER_03

So are you assigned a particular role while you're there? I mean, what's kind of like your objective at that first station?

SPEAKER_00

Uh just fitting in, really.

SPEAKER_03

Um some hazing that goes on or anything like that.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, a lot of people call it hazing. Like, it's just I know hazing has like a bad name in the military. I think it's almost necessary, right? You gotta like weed out the weak people. Um and just like people have to know if you're about it, I guess. Like, right, you're in the infantry. You're gonna go to war with these people. You gotta like make sure that they can actually take, I don't know, like some criticism, criticism. Like, are they gonna be there when bullets start flying? Are they gonna be able to like go in under fire to like hopefully carry you out? Like, are they or are they gonna like cry when you fucking make fun of them? You know what I'm saying? So I I'm okay with some hazing, like, and I get I get the game, right? Like, I remember there's this one sergeant, he he took it a little too far. I get it, dude. I'll I'll like crawl through some puddles. Like, I remember he had us one day, it was like me and like another dude that were brand new uh in this platoon, and he like kind of got off on it, I guess, a little bit, but he had us like low crawling. And when I mean low crawling, you're like supposed to be like your head's on the ground, and you're like low crawling, like you're in in the dirt, and it was like it just got done raining. He had us like low crawling through like mud puddles and shit and push-ups, like you know, burpees, like anything you can do to like fuck with someone, which I'm fine, I can I can play the game. And then he like went a little off the handle and like started like really talking shit to us like personally. I'm like, Whoa, well, this is this isn't part of the game. You're like attacking me personally, like, I'm not about that. And then he like made some comment, like, Oh, do you wanna you wanna take it to the woodline? I'm like, Yeah, you're giving me a chance to like fuck you up. Oh yeah, I'm 100% all about that, dude. And then like I started walking to the wood line, and then he's like, No, no, no, we can't do that. And he kind of like bitched out in front of everybody, and I was like, okay. Like, he obviously isn't about it. So that kind of I kind of earned some respect in front of everybody because like almost like the whole platoon was out there. So um, I don't know, like either be about it or don't be about it. I don't know. Like, so uh he didn't really fuck with me after that. So that was that was kind of nice.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, but you it probably also, like you said, earned you some kudos because he's like, Oh, some people be like, No, no, sir, and just cower down. You're like, that's not the dude I want to go to war with.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, oh 100%. And also, like, I I'll play the game. Like, I went through the mud puddle, like I went and got smoked, like I get that part of it, but like don't disrespect me personally. Like, right, uh uh there's a there's a fine line, and if you cross it, then I'm not gonna play your game anymore.

SPEAKER_02

So let's talk about uh the first time you get deployed. Tell me about that.

SPEAKER_00

Getting deployed. Um so uh I joined a reconnaissance unit at some point, Dorn Fort Drum. And um this reconnaissance unit is supposed to be really cool. Um supposed to be? It was supposed to be a lot cooler than what it was, I guess I would say. It was uh it was supposed to be uh it was it was RISTA, it was a RISTA unit. So it was a reconnaissance, surveillance, and target acquisition team, or I guess unit. Um I joined that. I was kind of bored with the like the line unit infantry guys. Uh I think my my staff sergeant knew that. So there's this like first sergeant that was going around like trying to recruit guys. I just got my expert infantry badge as like E2, which is like super rare. Like I think only like 10% of people have this EIB. Um EIB. Expert infantry badge, sorry. Gotcha. There's like 30 something state like uh different um things you have to do to get this EIB. Then you have to do like a physical fitness test, uh qualified an expert, like a bunch of shit. And then like I think the hard one was like you had to do a 12-mile road march under three hours with like a combined 70 pounds of weight. So essentially you're running the whole fucking three hours to make this 12 miles. Um, so we did all that, I got it as an E2, and I think only one other guy in my my company got it. And so I go to this meeting, I see him, and he's just like stacked, dude. Like this first sergeant, he's fucking a poster child, every single badge ever. Um and he's like, holy shit, like this E2 has EIB. So he picks me up, uh, I get I get on the recon unit, and then um during the deployment, we go to Afghanistan and it's just it's it's just wild. Um being being shot at um and like living through like an engagement is fucking insane and it like is a lot of fun actually. Like you really feel alive. Um like unbelievably alive, like there's nothing that can ever amount to that excitement. Um yeah. But also probably the saddest fucking time I ever had in my life. So why do you say that? Um the funnest shit ever, and also like watching my friends die was so it's like the highest high and the lowest low was the deployment. So there's a lot that happened in there. And I was like, we were deployed for like 16 months, and it was the longest fucking 16 months of my life.

SPEAKER_03

So now did you know you were going to Afghanistan for your first deployment?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, at some point they like told us uh I think it was set up from the beginning. Like they stood up this whole unit just to go to Afghanistan. Uh and this whole recon unit we set up was new, it was like a new concept. So they're like recruiting people, and they were doing like a bunch of different stuff to um set up this whole unit that like stood up a whole battalion just to go to Afghanistan.

SPEAKER_03

So did they give you any sort of intel as to what the conflict was at that time, like what the landscape looked like?

SPEAKER_00

Not really. We all knew it was Afghanistan. We're gonna be in the fucking mountains, and um I remember there was like some video they showed us of like some special forces guys getting absolutely destroyed at some point. Like the I think we intercepted like some Taliban camera footage of them just destroying some like special forces dudes, and they were like, This is where we're going. I was like, ha fuck, dude. Like they destroyed some like what we're just normal fucking dudes, and they just kill these special forces guys. I'm like, oh man, this is this oh man, I don't know. Like, right? So um was I nervous, of course, you know. So and I'm just like, I don't know, maybe I'm 1920 at the time, so like I don't have any life experience, dude. I don't know what the fuck I'm doing. So then they're like, all right, cool, we're gonna go, and we're off. And we're just in this fucking big old plane. We get to some fucking random ass, Tajekistan, or however the fuck you say it, Air Force Base, and then we hang out there for a minute, and then we take like a C-130 into Afghanistan, and then we're there. It's just a wild ride, dude.

SPEAKER_02

Right. Uh can you tell us about some of the people that you were with?

SPEAKER_00

Some really good people. Um some of the people I want to talk about was definitely uh my buddy Patrick Leibert. He was uh a staff sergeant at the time. Uh great dude. Um essentially I got I got promoted to a sergeant two years in and I was 21 at the time. Never been to a bar. I got prom like I turned 21 in Afghanistan. I was like a fucking baby dude. Um so I needed help. Like I didn't even know how to even be really a person and or a leader by any means. And this guy like kind of took me under his wing and like kind of taught me how to be a leader and like lead people, essentially. Um so he's kind of like my rock, dude. Like good dude. Um starting first class, Jeremonty, another great dude. He was uh I was kind of described him as like the quiet dude in the room, right? Like, you know how you always have like the quiet dude, like you're on the SWAT team, like you know he had like that very quiet dude, and everybody's like waiting for his fucking opinion. Like, hey, do you wanna chime in here? And everybody kind of listens to him. Right. He's he says very few words, but they all seem to be brilliant. 100%. That was that was that was Giramonty, dude. Like, no one we're all kind of like looking at him. All right, you're gonna you fucking say something? Are we going? Is this mission sound good or what? And that was that guy. So um there was a c there's like so so many people, dude. Um I really want to focus on those two right now. But uh Sir First Sergeant Billy Serks, uh he was our platoon sergeant when we were over there. Uh he ended up dying a couple deployments after ours. Um he's a great dude, great fucking dude. Um, but those are like the three guys I'd like to focus on today.

SPEAKER_02

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03

Any funny stories when you first got there, though? I'd imagine it's a little bit of play.

unknown

Oh man.

SPEAKER_00

Funny stories, dude. Um thing with alcohol. We'll see. So drinking going on.

SPEAKER_02

We we talked about one time um in one of our previous episodes about like um my wife when I went to the police academy, she was like, I came home probably like a month into it, and she was like, I just don't understand how so many heterosexuals can get together and act so gay all the time together. I imagine the military is that like times five.

SPEAKER_00

There's a lot of gay shit that happens there, but it's not like it's not gay if you don't look at each other.

unknown

Right?

SPEAKER_00

But like, no, like obviously, like uh it was almost like a survival thing, too.

SPEAKER_02

Right. It's just you have to laugh. Like we got we we just laugh at it, and it's just so funny about the things that people will do.

SPEAKER_00

Well, like even in police work, right? We every always says we have a dark sense of humor. It's literally a survival thing. Yeah, like we have to do it. So, like the the military thing is like you have to have a good sense of humor, or everything's gonna eat you away. Right. Um and I always share this like funny story with like my friends and my wife, too, is like I in Afghanistan, people don't know it, like it's really fucking hot, like 110 degrees, or and also snows like feet at a time. I remember we're on a mission one time, it was snowing, and I like I shared a sleeping bag with another dude, and I was like, when you're freezing to death, you're you're gonna fucking try to survive, dude. I remember his hands were in my ass cheek, and then like he was I was a little spoon, he was big spoon, and then we're like, we agreed, we agreed to like flip-flop, you know. I was like, hey, it's been an hour, my turn. Like, you know, because you're fucking freezing to death. Like we're literally shivering, right? And then like you maybe have a woba, like, which is like this really thin blanket, or you have like a green sleeping bag, which is the lighter one, not the black one. So it's like when you're humping mountains, like you try to stay as light as possible. Like water weighs fucking a ton. So you like try to pack as light as possible because you're just humping big ass fucking mountains. Ammo weighs a lot, water weighs a lot, so you just like pack and you're just like cool, I'm gonna shiver, but at least I'm not like carrying a lot of weight. Right. So you just like do what you have to do to fucking survive essentially.

SPEAKER_03

It's crazy.

SPEAKER_00

But but you do it, like it's like you know, what other choice do you have?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, you're none, right?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, you're just like fuck, okay, I'm gonna be cold. This is gonna be awesome, you know?

SPEAKER_03

Like, yeah, yeah, I guess it's why you get close to the people you're uh there with.

SPEAKER_00

100%, yeah. And then you just like, yeah, you know everything like at the end of the deployment, you know everything about everybody. Because again, you there's some boring ass moments where like nothing happens and you're just so you're so bored. Like you guys talk about everything, everything you can ever think of. Like, I guarantee if I go back and talk to some of the dudes, they're like, they'd be like, Hey, did you ever become a cop? I'm like, Yeah, actually I did, dude. Like, how it's crazy. Let me tell you, like, yeah, everybody knows kind of like what everybody expected the other person to do when they got out, because everybody has a story, like, oh, when I get out, I want to do this. Oh, when I get out, I want to do this. Like, everybody had a story. Everybody talked about everybody's family, like everybody knew who what the girlfriend's name were was or what the wife's name was. It's just he had nothing to do, so he just talked and told stories.

SPEAKER_03

I would imagine that's where a lot of the um the strong bonds come from. It's just being alone together in a shared experience. It's so different from what majority of civilians ever experience.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I think that like the boredom part, but also the exact the exact opposite of like you're in an extreme firefight and you're expecting that guy to fucking help you out. Like you're like pinned down, and you're like hoping this dude's gonna shoot some rounds or shoot that guy that has you pinned down so you can escape like the danger of not getting killed, right? Or you hope that guy likes you enough to like carry you out if you are wounded, you know? So it's like very you have to depend on everybody you're with, which is you're just kind of hoping that you made that bond and then they're gonna come get you. So yeah, fair.

SPEAKER_03

Absolutely. Your first um your first major mission, what does that look like?

SPEAKER_00

Oh, uh this is actually like you're gonna fucking get me all emotional here now. So um so the first big mission that I I kind of remember too, and uh it was Kosha Valley or Kocha Valley. So we were stuck in this fucking shitty little base called Naray. It was like North West Afghanistan. We're like pretty close to the Pakistan border the whole time. Mountainous, absolute shithole. Uh so we go to this Kocha Valley. There's supposed to be these three brothers that make uh IEDs, they're responsible for killing a bunch of Americans over the years, uh, and that's like our first target, right? We're like these recon dudes, we're supposed to be all fucking ninja out and like go in there and do some stuff. But the army has like a funny way of saying different shit. So we did a lot of move to contact and enemy disruption. So move to contact essentially means like, hey, there's this really like I think we we think we found a bad valley. I just want you guys to walk through that, see what happens. And once you get shot at, we know it's a bad valley. So that's like a move to contact, you're like, cool, like let's just go fucking be guinea pigs and we're gonna walk through this valley, and then I guess you guys will know if it's a bad valley when we start getting fucking shot at. So that's a move to contact or disrupt the enemy is.

SPEAKER_02

Thank you. Thank you for selecting me for this, sir.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, cool, yeah. I'd love to go do this.

SPEAKER_03

They make it sound cooler than it is, and you're like, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Or you're just a canary in the fucking mineshaft, right? You're just like, oh, this is a great, oh shit. All right, you know, I'm dead.

SPEAKER_03

Because if they called it that, people probably would be like, fuck no.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah, right, or you're gonna go do anyways, because that's you know, that's what you sign up for. Yeah, or like disrupt the enemy means you're gonna be put in a bad spot and you're gonna disrupt them by them shooting at you, right? So um, so we go on this. This I I it was actually like a very smart move. I don't know who came up with this fucking plan, but it was actually pretty smart. So we do a whole battalion marches into this valley to go find, like, or just disrupt or move to contact, I can't remember which one it was. We're gonna march the whole battalion into this valley. And on the way back, because obviously we don't think they're gonna shoot at us, we're a whole battalion size, that's a lot of fucking people in this valley. Uh, on the way back, we're gonna shoot out these recon teams, like me and the sniper teams, uh, shoot them out, and and these like random spots we picked out on a map that are like covered and there's foliage and stuff that can cover our our and conceal us, right? So my team jets off in this one predetermined spot, and we have a sniper team attached to us, and we're just chilling. And this whole team, the whole battalion finally moves out. So anybody in that valley is like, okay, the Americans left. Uh, unbeknownst to us is like we literally sat right in front of one of the brothers' houses, one of these three brothers. So we're just bullshitting, jawjacking, and we're like, oh fuck, who's this guy? He just came out of nowhere, decked out, bro. Like this Afghan dude, chest rig, all these different magazines. He's got a pimped out like AK-47 and like one of those like radios that used to like Obama or Obama, Jesus, Osama bin Laden. So fucking Obama.

SPEAKER_03

Osama bin Laden. Clipped that part.

SPEAKER_00

Osama bin Laden uh with like the silver with like big ass antenna, and he's just chatting on it, right? He's like messing with the wall in front of his house. Like this guy's like up to no good. And like, so we're like, is this like one of the Afghan National Army guys that were supposed to be with us? Like, because that's what all our Afghan National Army guys look like. Yeah. So we like made a bunch of communications, like, hey, is all our Afghan guys like out of the out of the valley? And they're like, Yeah, like, okay, well, we have this dude that's in in front of us, like, he's and we give him description. So we're trying to get approval to shoot this dude. Right.

SPEAKER_02

How like how many, like, what's the distance between you and him if you had to oh man.

SPEAKER_00

Um maybe 300 meters, maybe somewhere between 300 and 500 meters. Okay. So it's like we're on this hillside, there's a a rip, like a small like river, and then his house is on the other side. If I had to guess something, uh maybe a little more, like 500 to 1000 meters, maybe. So he we're trying to get approval to shoot this guy. Like he's obviously up to no good, and he's just messing around. You can hear him, he's obviously talking to all the other people in the valley. So the government takes forever to do anything. So we're doing government shit, and we finally get the green light to shoot this guy. So one of the sniper guys takes a shot, he shoots him, and it's fucking not as glorio like glamorous as I thought it would be, right? So this guy goes down, they shoot. I think they shoot him a couple more times, whatever. So we go across the river, we go to search this guy, but as he's like laying there dying, he's like calling for his like family who's inside the house. I think his wife comes out. I want to say his kids come out too. But I don't know, maybe I blocked that out enough. I don't know if I remember his kids coming out or not. I think they were, and they like get him a bed and he's just fucking dying, right? It's it's like I want to be sad for him, but I know he did a bunch of fucked up shit, so uh he's laying there dying. We search him, and he has like fucking stacks of American cash on him, like this. And then you gotta remember, we're in the middle of fucking nowhere Afghanistan. Like, obviously, he's a bad dude, like no one has cash on him. We don't even have cash on us like that. Like, right, so he's a bad dude. Um he dies, obviously. And then we keep on we get all these reports like hey, you guys, you guys need to start moving. Like, I think the whole valley's coming to get you. And so we literally run like sprint, sprint out of this fucking valley as fast as we can, and they like call up um a bunch of reinforcements at the mouth of the valley to like kind of cover our retreat. And um we had a special forces group attached to us in Norae, and they spent they sent their like humit team, like their human intelligence team in there, and like we realized that we we got one of the brothers. We we got one of them, so that was that was kind of cool. Uh like I said, it wasn't like as it was a little weird for me, like watching someone die. I think it would be easier if like he was shooting at us, right? Like, right? We just like and or maybe his family didn't come out. That so yeah, that changes. It changes, it changes a little bit, right? Or it just humanizes the soldier, very humanizing, yeah. And I don't know if I like that. So that was that was a lot. That was a lot to deal with, especially as the first dude I saw getting killed or dying, I guess. Yeah, so that's kind of a lot to take in. And uh, right?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, and I imagine they don't have like uh you guys don't have time to sit there and debrief and uh even process that right?

SPEAKER_00

No, and also it's it's like the the culture is like you're like cool, we got that guy, and you're like, yeah, I guess, yeah, cool.

SPEAKER_02

Saying anything else would be weird.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, right. You're like, oh man, actually feel bad for him. Like they're like, what the fuck is wrong with you? You know, like which I don't I don't necessarily feel bad for him. I just think like the circumstances around surrounding it was like weird.

SPEAKER_02

You don't, I mean, bad guy, you know, dies, whatever, but it's like when you know that their kids and wife watch it, it changes a little bit. It it humanizes it, and you're like, ah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Like that was the only person I felt bad about.

SPEAKER_02

Be on the battlefield by yourself or something. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Come at me with some like face paint and like, you know, shooting at me up like all day, right? But this guy, like, uh it almost felt unfair. Yeah, but again, like he like, you know, like I justified it to myself. Like, this guy killed a bunch of Americans. He and he'll it'll later on. I'll talk about something else that happened. Is like he he they kind of got us back a little bit, so um later on. So yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. So what else is Afghanistan like? Like, I've never obviously been there. I have very little you should go.

SPEAKER_00

It's beautiful.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I bet, right? Sounds fun. Like, I'm just trying to like I always hear stories from Afghanistan. I've just done a little bit of like, you know, watching the news and whatnot, but like what is life like there? Is it different, do you think, from what you guys see from your military experience? Or like like what is your like if you had to describe Afghanistan and some of the places you've gone there, what is it kind of like?

SPEAKER_00

Oh man, it's it's it's so remote, I guess, is the best way to describe it. Um The most remote parts we were like we were in like the Hindukush Mountains, like we're so far removed from everywhere. Like we drove through some of the big cities. Um it was like somewhat normal. I guess you would if normal is the right word to use. Uh we were so far in the middle of nowhere, um, Afghanistan that like people are still weren't living in mud huts with rocks, um, still kind of like defecating in holes, right? Um they bathe in like the river. There's no like electricity anywhere. Like someone that had a generator was like big pimpin', you know what I'm saying? Um it was like so remote in some of the places too that uh we we had a we had a black guy in our in our company, uh great dude. Um I remember we went to a super remote area in like I think it was in like Nuristan province, and they uh I was talking to the interpreter after he talked to some of the locals, and I'm like, what are they saying? They were like all like jazzed up, right? And I was like, What was going on with that? What was going on with that conversation? He's like, Oh man, uh Grant was his name. It's like this guy is gonna be the talk of the town for the next fucking decade. They've never seen the black guy before. That's like how far like if you even think about that right now, that's how far we were removed from like society. That they've like they think this guy's a fucking alien right now, right? Just because as a black dude, and it was just so wild to think about that. Like, that's so how far they were removed about uh from anything, right? And it was just that just cracked me up. I don't know why, but yeah, and we we told Grant that and he just he started laughing so hard. It was just like I don't know, I think that was like the funniest, and again, we're like so bored, that was like the funniest thing, and we talked about that for like a month. It was like hilarious.

SPEAKER_03

So Corangol Valley. What can you tell me about that?

SPEAKER_00

Oh man, um that's probably the one of the one of the more crazier places we went. Um the Corangol Valley. Uh, if anybody that went to Afghanistan knew about the Corangol Valley, uh if you want to learn about the Corn Gold Valley, there's this this movie called Restrepo. Uh R-E-S-T-R-E-P-O. Great great documentary. Um I think the Restrepo is the name of the medic that died there. Uh it's a great, great, great documentary, great movie. That that place was probably the most fucked up place I've ever been. Um it's definitely the place I felt like I was hunted instead of doing the hunting. And that's like an eerie feeling when you when you're the one being hunted. Um uh so we were there to help out the uh unit that was assigned to that valley. Um and it was like a overall, like a bunch of people flew in there, like a bunch of people were like a bunch of Americans were dying in that valley. So they flew in a bunch of us, um, our recon team, I think uh a Marine team, which is super small world. Um, like I said, like from Sonoma. So my buddy uh Pepe, who was in the Marines, like I said, he was actually on the the same mission in the Corn Gall at the same time I was, which is super small world. Small world.

SPEAKER_03

Did you know he joined the military or okay?

SPEAKER_00

Both of us out of high school we joined the military. Um but this is like the the weirdest thing in the world, right? So we MySpace was a big thing back then, right? I remember your top favorites, and you put your music and shit on there. Oh, yeah. It was way better than what way better. Way better.

SPEAKER_02

I wish it wasn't so didn't get so corrupt because it was the best.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, who was the dude that uh whatever happened to Tom? I'm my first friend.

SPEAKER_02

Come back, Tom. We we love you. Tom was way better than uh meta. Let's recreate that, but safer and better.

SPEAKER_00

100%, dude. So better. 100%. Did Tom come back, Tom? Um like so me and my buddy, we knew we were like in Afghanistan together. He made mention that he might be on this mission. So me and him, total uh operational security, dude. 100% just talking on MySpace messages, just sending absolute details of our mission that's coming up on MySpace. Literally what they tell you not to do. We're all like, hey bro, I'm gonna be here this date. What are you doing? He's like, and we're just like mission, just critical information over MySpace. Jeez. Like it's like absolutely what they tell you not to do, right?

SPEAKER_02

What are you gonna do? It's like a bunch of we're a bunch of children, dude. Like people are getting rick rolled while forgiving mission details.

SPEAKER_00

Oh man, it was great, it was great. Um, so we we we find out that we're both gonna be on this mission together. Two Sonoma kids halfway around the world fighting the war on the same mission, just wild to me. Um and in this at this point, like a while ago, we like cleaned out a con X box on a ray, and I found a bunch of trip flares. And I'm like, why are why are we not using these? These are probably the like once like I read the instructions and shit. Like, obviously, I know how they work, but I'm like, let me let me read the army instructions, right? Which is like absolutely nothing. Just like pull the string out, like fucking someone trips over it and they this flare goes off. Um I I I became in love with trip flares, and I don't know why more people don't use them. So like anytime like my team went out, we set up trip flares everywhere. I don't know why more people don't use these.

SPEAKER_03

So are these like warning devices or what are these?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, so essentially like you pick a spot like a like ingress route or like people would come in, right? Like like an entrance to like maybe your patrol camp or your hype or whatever you got going on, and then they would essentially trip over this wire and it would shoot off a flare, so it would give you like an early warning system. Um so I found this whole con like whole big old box of them, and I'm like, man, I'm taking all these. Uh and I started using them everywhere. Every time my team went out, like we set up trip flares everywhere, and it's kind of been it was kind of like my thing. So in the Quarangol, because there's this like rumor that these taliban Taliban guys were so good because they've been living in these valleys forever, like generation after generation after generation, like right, they knew every sick stone of these valleys, and we were just like some visitors just walking through. Right. We don't we don't know where the hell we're at. This guy's like, oh yeah, I threw a ball up there in 1970. You know, like I don't know, right? So there's this rumor that they're like all these Taliban guys would like sneak in these patrol bases and start killing all the Americans. So I obviously I believe that, right? I didn't I had no reason not to. So I set up like a billion trap flares in the corn goal because this is supposed to be like the worst area ever. So one night, one of these trip flares go off, and we fucking shot so many rounds to where this trip flare was. Like it's like the scene in the predator. Oh, dude, yeah. If we had a minigun, it'd be yeah, dude. Yeah, 100%. You need it like that. Yeah. Um, so many rounds. Um, and this poor fucking cow got annihilated. Annihilated. This this cow had no fucking chance. So this this dead cow just hanging out, just rest in peace, Mr. Cow. Uh oops. So, I mean, it it worked, it served its purpose. Yeah, that cow was not sneaking up on us. We destroyed that cow. So that was kind of like the start. I think that was like the first like one or two nights this cow like tripped one of our trip players and then just destroyed this cow. What's funny is that like the guy who owned that cow actually came and tried to get a payment for it because we obviously killed it. So it was it was it was kind of funny.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I would imagine.

SPEAKER_00

Um but yeah, so we're like going through Corangol or firefights, and then we had these like Navy Navy dudes attached to us. Um, and they they were able to intercept the Taliban communications, they were using icon i icon uh walkie-talkies, I don't know, some icom shit. I didn't really understand it. I was too young to even really care. Um and they had interpreters attached to the Navy guys, and they were like literally telling us everything that they were the Taliban guys were were talking about. And I'm like, I don't know if I even want to know all this. They literally knew where we were every second of every day, and we're supposed to be these sneaky recon ninja guys, and I'm like, this is psychologically fucking us up, like it was like like report on us every single second. And I'm like, this isn't this isn't good, we're not hiding from anybody. Um, and like there was like even like report, like, okay, yeah, the the Americans are brushing their teeth right now. I'm like, what the fuck, dude? Like, where are these guys at? You have no idea. Yeah, and I'm like, I think that really fucked a lot of the guys up. Like, sometimes you just don't need to know about shit.

SPEAKER_03

Like, I don't like how vulnerable it is to feel to sit there hearing all that.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and I really think it fucked with some people. Like, we lost a couple guys like mentally after that mission. They're like, they couldn't handle it, and they just freaking out. Yeah, I think we had to airlift one dude, and the other dude was like, he never came back. Like, I think it just totally fucked him up. Like, I think even in our personal life, like there's some shit you just don't need to know about. Like, don't tell me, I don't want to know. Just like this. Like, you don't need to tell me every single second of what I'm doing when I'm supposed to be in secret hiding.

SPEAKER_03

Well, and like what are you supposed to do with that information? Yeah, do you change what you're doing?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, tell me when an attack's about to happen. That's all I need to know. Like, am I am I about to get shot? Maybe that will help me. I don't know. But that that I think that fucked us up, dude. I don't know if I'd want to have that all the time.

SPEAKER_02

But if their job is to simply interpret the messages that are being sent, yeah. How do you determine which ones are the most important versus true?

SPEAKER_00

But I feel like someone on the army side or I guess Navy side would be like, okay, is this important enough to pass on? Like I feel like there needs to be a filter.

SPEAKER_03

Does everybody need to know that information? Yeah. Or maybe just like one guy that's like, just keep me apprised, but be the burden.

SPEAKER_00

Right. You get to hold all that inside, and that's your job.

SPEAKER_03

But I'll share it with everybody else when I have an action for them to take.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Yeah. So I mean that man, that that that was a that was a rough, that was a rough alley. Um there's a lot, lot, a lot of like a lot of stuff going on there. Um, we didn't fortunately we didn't lose anybody that deployment. Or sorry, not the deployment, that that mission. Um it's a lot of stuff going on there though. Like it was it was rough. Like, anybody that's been in the corn goal knows what I'm talking about. That whole base sucked. Like, I remember we got attacked like a bunch of times when we finally got back from our mission and we were there. Like, we remember helping like the 120 millimeter mortar guys, which is these huge mortars, and we're like helping them like unpack the mortars. We had to like pour water on the mortars to like cool the tube down because there was like a bunch of other teams getting attacked, and we're trying to shoot mortar rounds to kind of help them out. Like, that ballet was a fucking shit show, dude. Like it was wild. I don't even too many people died there. Too many people died there just to to give up Afghanistan like we did. It's just fucking weird and wild to even think about that.

SPEAKER_03

I was sleep-like.

SPEAKER_00

I don't even know if there was any, dude. Like my wife always makes fun of me too, because I can like kind of fall asleep, but not asleep. Like, I have this like I I think anybody in the military can kind of like agree with me. Like, there's a quasi-sleep, if you want to call it that, where you're like you are asleep, but you can still hear everything that's going on, like on around you, and then like you're sleeping on the floor. Like you're on the Afghanistan ground, and like you have shit crawling all over you every day. Like, I remember like hitting bugs on my face, and there's like I don't even know what the fuck it was because it's pitch black, and probably like a camel spider crawling across your face, or like shit's always crawling on you, like it never stops. So and the ground's not comfortable. So you just kind of like you're just you just sleep from exhaustion essentially, because it's not comfortable at all.

SPEAKER_02

No such thing as REM sleep there.

SPEAKER_00

Absolutely not. No, absolutely not. So I don't know if I would actually call it sleep. You kind of just uh arrested your body enough for the to go the next day. I I think is would be fair to say.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. So what was your group like that you were a part of? Was there any girls in your group? Was it just all men? What were some of the characters like?

SPEAKER_00

I think it changed recently, but back then infantry was only only guys, um, no women. Which is uh it's funny you should say that. Is uh in the Korngal, especially, there was this badass Apache pilot that was a female. And anytime we were getting fucked up and got in a firefight, this this we'd call in like air support, and this Apache pilot would come in and she would be like, Hey boys, heard you need some help. And I'm like, Oh my god, I love your voice. Like, I have no idea what she looks like to this day. I guarantee she's the most beautiful woman ever. Like, like every all the guys would be like, Oh, oh my god, I hope you know, like we don't even know her fucking name. Like, I think we knew her call sign. Like, oh man, I hope she comes, dude. This is gonna be great. She's gonna go in here and just fuck everybody up, right? And we're just always just like, oh, there she is! Like we'd be like all excited because we like haven't seen a like a chicken probably like fucking eight months, you know, or like heard one. Right. And then this chick just comes in, guns blazing, just total badass, probably, you know. And I just think of her like probably the most amazing, beautiful woman of my life, just flying around this helicopter, just shooting bad guys.

SPEAKER_02

So nice, give it those to her wherever she is, wherever she is.

SPEAKER_03

Maybe she listens to this podcast at some point, and she like wouldn't that be cool if she's like, hey, uh this year, this is where I was.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, comment on this uh podcast of this year. So but it was like she had a like I don't even know if it was an amazing voice. It was just like we have no clue. I have zero clue, like to even it compare it to, but like it was just like it was just cool that a female, badass position, just coming in and helping the boys, like, I got you guys, and just taking out shit, shooting fucking missiles and you know, like machine gun and everything. I was like, man, this is fucking badass, dude. I remember just like dude, just good for her, dude. Like that was awesome. I don't know. I had a I got a kick out of it.

SPEAKER_03

Any female Apache pilots in Coringall Valley in what was this? Maybe 27? Uh 26? Oh 25? Oh no. Oh no. 2005? Oh, 2000.

SPEAKER_00

2005, 2005. 2005, maybe 04, no, uh 06 or 7. 06 or 7. Haller.

SPEAKER_02

We want we'd like you on the podcast.

SPEAKER_00

We want to hear your stories. My goodness. I'm supposed to waving our stories at B. Should probably fuck badass, dude.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. And so you guys were calling for her support, or yeah, what did that look like?

SPEAKER_00

So, like you like we'd have troops in contact all the time. We call them ticks. Um, and then if we were getting like we felt like I love the acronyms, right? So many people sometimes you know acronyms, you don't even know what the fuck they mean, really. You're like, oh, the tick. You're like, Don't question it, just troops in contact, or you're like, what is I don't even know what that means. We just always said it that we always said it was that, and we don't even know what it actually stands for. Right. But yeah, so a tick, troops in contact. So we'd have ticks all the time, and um when we feel like we were getting overwhelmed or we're like it was a some substantial like enemy, we'd call them like air support. So we like uh Iraq took most of our air support away, and it would be very rare that we actually had like rural air support. So the Apaches were pretty common in the uh in the Korangal. And then um we've had like A-10s, um I think there's a F-16 at some point. We have the the drone guys, everyone. So it was it was rare when we had them, but we loved them when they were there because like the Afghanis or the Taliban guys, when they had when they saw the air support, they were like, fuck it, we're out of here.

SPEAKER_02

Like you can't, how are you gonna combat that?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, you can't combat those, dude. Like you, it's not like Call of Duty where you're like shooting fucking helicopters out of the sky with a like a machine gun, dude. That doesn't work. So like yeah, so every time they came in, we're like, fuck yeah, okay, we can just kind of relax for a little bit, like let these helicopters do what they do, and it was just amazing.

SPEAKER_03

So what was it like when you finally returned from that valley?

SPEAKER_00

Well, the one thing that stuck too is like, so we're going to like the most dangerous valley in the Corngal in all of Afghanistan. Well, it was dubbed one of the dangerous most dangerous valleys in all of Afghanistan. And then my two-week leave to go back home, because everybody kind of got like a two-week leave, uh, was right after the Cornal. And I remember thinking like, I'm gonna get fucking killed before I go on my two-week leave. Never been to a bar before. I just want to go home, have some fun. Like, I just turned 21. I remember drinking like a non-alcoholic quarse for my 21st birthday. I don't know, in some random fucking base somewhere. And so like I remember just like, I hope I don't die. I don't want to die like on the Corn Gol mission so I can go home. So I didn't, thankfully, obviously. So I like I took a helicopter from like some mountaintop in the Korngal and we got flown back. It was like I think it was me and one other dude from my company, got flown back for leave to Bagram. And Bagram Air Force Base is huge. Um and so we me and this other guy look like absolute dog shit. Like, I don't think we like showered for three weeks, haven't shaved like absolute dog shit. Um stinky, which is and you're sweating the whole time. Like it's like I don't know if you guys ever heard of prickly heat, like it's like you sweat so much, like you're the salt in your sweat starts crystallizing in your pores, and then it's just like like itches and like it it's awful. So we're we're anyways, that's a little too much information. But we look like shit, never showered, and we're like land in Bogram. And everybody's just happy town, right? They're in Air Force Base, huge one. These uh support support people, I call them, uh, they got hot showers every day, hot chow, uh, salsa night, every single amenity you can think of in war, these people have. And me and this poor bastard just walking through like the main strip of Bagram, just looking like a bag of ass. And I remember like we were we were walking by in this air, I want to say either Air Force Girl or Navy girl, man. Beautiful. She was wearing some perfume, and man, that fucking hit me like freight train. And I was like, holy shit, that smells good. Like, I don't think I've smelled perfume in probably close to a year, and I was like, man, there's it kind of like brought me back to like there's a life, there's uh something else besides war. And I was like, holy shit, like it's weird how like smells kind of bring you back, kind of ground you. And I was like, damn, okay, here we are. How like I'm going on leave, motherfuckers, you know, like I was like, thank God, dude. Like, life came back after like I went from fucking getting killed almost every day to smelling this girl's perfume, and I think that that's what snapped me out of it, and like, well, I'm going home. This is fucking cool. I'm going home for at least two weeks.

SPEAKER_03

It's gonna bring a whole new sense of like appreciation for the life that you had prior to leaving, right? Like the perspective in your head had to have changed so much. Oh from being this small town kid from uh Sonoma County to the middle of nowhere, fucking Afghanistan, not showering. It did you started out showering what you said three times a day, two showering once in like a matter of months.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah. I mean, we you get to shower in the morning, gotta shower after your workout, and shower before you go to bed, right? It's three always. Sure. But yeah, to like fucking being dirty and gross, dude, all the time. Yeah, and just oh man, perfume. Like you never thought it would be like something that simple, it just snaps you right out of it.

SPEAKER_02

Like But I'm sure people that have gone through it that's relatable when it's something you're like, oh, I've been without that.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Or just seeing a girl. Like, oh hearing a girl. Oh, that's what you look like. Oh, wow. Hearing a girl, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

So this is your first major break. You get to go home, right?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

You get to go home. You arrive back in California, and you're looking around. That's gotta be a weird feeling, like seeing some of the people you just graduated with.

SPEAKER_00

So weird, dude. What they're doing, what your family's doing. So weird. Yeah. Um, my dad picked me up. My dad was pretty like consistent with like picking me up and buying me plane tickets and doing dad stuff. He uh he was there, um picks me up, and I I go home and I'm just it's you go from like a mountaintop almost getting killed to be like being in a fucking car with your dad and you're driving through Oakland, which is I don't know, you maybe get fucking shot there too, right? I don't know. Maybe I should have, you know, right? I don't know. That's still kind of the same.

SPEAKER_03

Um that be crazy you go to Afghanistan for several months, you get home for a quick break and you get a shot in Oakland.

SPEAKER_00

What a story that would be. I haven't worked there, yeah. It is definitely impossible. Um yeah, but uh so I get home and it's just like very un uneasy, I guess. And uh whatever, you hang out with your friends, you you kind of like try to fit back into life for a little bit, and it's like you like you think like life paused, right? You think it's like cool, I'm leaving, life paused. Um, because you you pause essentially, because you like left life for a minute and you're like over here in Wonderland, Afghanistan, and then you come back to it, and you realize that everybody kept moving forward and you kind of just stopped. And it's like a weird feeling.

SPEAKER_02

I was gonna say, is it even relatable? Like when people talk about their things, like your things versus their things? You're like, Are we so different? Like, how does and in The past that we've gone, it's like, oh, I'm going to community college and I've done this, and you're like, neat. That's cool. This is what I've been doing, and you're like, eh.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I mean, all my friends were kind of pretty supportive, but it it is hard to like relate, uh, right? Because I'm just like, I don't I don't even know I don't even know what I'm doing here, right? Because like you're just trying to fit into being a normal person again, and it's I don't think you are, you're not right, especially after like you're just there for two weeks. I don't even know how you even like normalize yourself for two weeks and then go back, right? Like, what do you what are you even doing? I don't know.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Well, I mean, I think it the world looks different when you've taken a life.

SPEAKER_00

It just looks different, like or been shot at and survived. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

It's just it's it's hard to explain what that is. It's kind of like the way I tried to explain it is like when you you stay up all night and then you're like driving as the sun, it's already rising, you're like, this all feels weird and different. I'm the only one that that's like gone on no sleep. And I'm right. And it's just you just feel like this weird, eerie feeling, and it's not even comparable, but that's kind of the one thing that I've related to that I think most people can understand.

SPEAKER_00

I get it, yeah. That makes sense. Yeah. Yeah, it's just oh man. I don't know. I got pretty drunk a couple times. I mean, even 21, like you hit the bars, right? Yeah, you you don't have the training for that. Yeah, which is obviously you go full go. Yeah, I was I was I wasn't good at that. I'll tell you how much. I was not good at getting drunk at the bar because that was the first time I was being 21 and in the in the bars, um, which led to a little bit of trouble. I don't know if I want to talk about that, but um my buddy Nick, it's your fault. And so um, but yeah, I just you just try to normalize it and like you're just there, I guess. I don't know, waiting to go back. Which is weird.

SPEAKER_03

Was it hard to go back? Because I would imagine like how long was your break that you had from the time you left to returning?

SPEAKER_00

Oh, you get two weeks at home. There's like obviously some like buffer time, right? You had to get a flight, you gotta get a flight back. So I don't I I don't really know. Less than a month, though. Maybe a month-ish-ish. I don't know. That was a long, long time ago. But I mean, I was gonna say something. Um it's not a lot of time, and I think right when you start feeling like okay, like you're with your family again, like you're having meals and shit, like having a good time, and then you're just like, cool, I'm on my way back. Oh, uh, to your point, it was like, how hard was it to go back? I was a sergeant at the time, so like I had dudes to go back to. So like I felt obligated, like extremely obligated, because I was like, they're waiting on me to come back. And if anything happened to my guys when I was gone, I would have been I would have felt really fucking responsible that I wasn't there.

SPEAKER_02

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00

So I I I it wasn't awfully hard for me to go back. So I I I felt like I needed to be there for them. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02

So in a leadership capacity, can you talk a little bit about that in that environment? Becoming a leader, going from a soldier to a leader. How did that yeah?

SPEAKER_00

I'm I think I I fucked it up pretty well. Um I wish I wish I could take all my experience now and then be a leader now. Obviously, we can't do that, but um, I was a very young leader. Um, I learned a lot from that. Uh, I don't think anybody should ever be a 20-year-old leader leading people through a war. Uh I don't think I was very good at it. Uh I did the best I could with the experience I had, which was none. Um I brought all my people home alive. Actually, yeah, man, that's that's a sad thing to say, which a great leader sometimes wouldn't bring everybody back. So I don't know if that's a good thing to say. Um I guess I tried the best I could, I guess is the the way I should say it is I didn't know a lot. Um, I tried the best I could. I could have been better 100%, and uh I hope my guys would kind of forgive me for not being so great, I guess is what I would say.

SPEAKER_02

Did anybody uh did you find any mentors during that process?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, um I dude Patrick Leibert was 100% my mentor. Um he was like the the rock, he was the dude I try to um become, essentially. Like everybody respected him, his dudes fucking loved him. I loved him. Uh he ran a like a tight ship. Like he was the leader like everybody should be. Uh when I met him, he's already been through Iraq. Now he was his second employment, so we actually added some experience, and I I like just wanted to learn everything he knew, essentially.

SPEAKER_02

So when you talk about so leadership is a thing that people write a lot of books about, they they have a lot of conversations. I think most people know what it means to be a good leader, to be a good leader, but a lot of people don't have the discipline to do that. Can you describe some of his leadership qualities that made his men and you admire him so much?

SPEAKER_00

He was very disciplined and he expected his men to be disciplined. Um, but he was also had a light side to him too. He can joke, he can laugh. Um, but when it was time for him to be serious and his dudes to be serious, they locked it up and he was they were ready to go. Um I think that's if if a leader takes everything serious all the time, man, you're gonna exhaust your dudes. Um have fun, life's short, especially when you're in like a job like that. Like, you can be dead the fucking next day. Have fun with it while you can. Uh he he was just a great dude. Like, I still talk to his mom. My wife talks to his mom. Like, you can just tell he came from a great family. Like his mom sent my kids stuffed animals. Um just a great dude. Um sorry, I gotta lock my shit up here in a second. Um he's always there when you needed him. He never said no to anything. Uh if you had a problem at like 3 a.m. at a knock on his door, he's gonna answer his fucking door and he's gonna help you with whatever you needed. He ate last. If you needed something, like say, like it's like the small things too, Jeff. You know this because you're you're you're a sergeant. Like someone needed water, and it's your last water, and your guy needed water. You're giving you're giving your fucking water to that guy. You know, it's like the small things too. It's like not just the big things, they're not sacrificing the big things, it's like the small little things that no one really notices, right? Right. Um, he did all those and then some. Like, he was just a great dude. Uh he took care of his like his brother, who had some uh mental issues overall, just great dude. Like, I I I'm sure I have like a thousand other things to say about him right now, but yeah.

SPEAKER_02

So um, I don't know if this is the proper segue, but can you tell us about him and um maybe why you get so emotional about uh talking about him?

SPEAKER_00

So and I hate this because I'm gonna get emotional too. I don't want to. So Nuristan was the big mission.

SPEAKER_01

Oh glimmer.

SPEAKER_00

So Nuristan kind of sucked. Uh there's a lot going on with that mission, too. The day of uh my team, we were tasked, so we did a lot of meetings with Pakistan. So we'd go over the border just a little bit into Pakistan and we'd have meetings with like the village elders over there or like the military people over there, which was kind of dumb because like nothing's gonna happen within our lifetime. Like these we'd go there, like the lieutenants and captains would do lieutenant captain shit in a meeting, right? And then all of us would be out there like nothing's gonna fucking change, right? We're at least not in our lifetime. What are we doing here? Sorry, a quick story before I get into all his sad shit. I remember like meeting, I guess, my person on their side, so maybe Sergeant, maybe he had a little bit more rank on me on the Pakistani side. He's like listening to his iPod or something. I go, What do you listen to? And he's like, Oh, like some Tupac. I was like, what the fuck? Do it in the middle, and I can't even express how in the middle of nowhere we are, just fucking in the middle of nowhere, right? And I was like, You're listening to Tupac, dude? He's like, Yeah. I was like, what the fuck? And then he's like, Yeah, I've been to like he's like, Where are you from? I was like, California. He's like, I've been to California. And I was like, what are we what is happening right now, dude? Right. He's like, this is Tupac. He's been to California, right? And so we're like bullshitting, right? I mean this Pakistani dude. And I was like, we're like talking about like random Afghanist shit. I was like, yeah, I was like weird because we're like talking about Coca-Cola's because like Coca-Cola is like a big deal around there. And I was like, it's weird how they always have the pull top, they don't have like the pop top things like our cans. And he's like, Oh, you want one of those? And I was like, Oh no, that's fine. And he like yelled something to one of his soldiers and he like ran off. I was like, I said, uh, I'm fine, I don't need one. And this dude comes back huffing and puffing, and he's like, Here, and he like gives me one of the pop tops. I'm like, I'm sure it tastes like just like the pull can, but hey, I appreciate it man. Thanks. Right. And then he was like telling me, like, hey, if you ever come back, um make it to my side, we can go to like a club together. And I'm like, fuck no, we're not, dude. Like someone, you can kidnap me and I'm fucking dead. I was like, I'll pass, dude. But hey, offer that. Fuck great, but thanks, dude. I'm gonna I'm gonna pass. So all eyes on me, hell of an album, dude. All of it's great, but I was just like so random, and like there's so many random things happened over there, but like weird. Um sorry, neuros Dan. Um so my team was tasked to go to this uh same kind of meeting, what I was just talking about. On the way there, uh there's three Humvee convoy. Humbees are like the stupid army trucks that everybody sees around, right? I was the lead truck. We had uh a middle truck with uh Sergeant Flores, and then my favorite lieutenant Duke Dillo was in the last truck. So we're going through the stupid fucking dirt road that we drove a thousand fucking times to go to Pakistan. And then we go through the kosher valley, like we pass by it. It's fucking the valley we fucking killed this brother, right? And then the second truck gets hit with ID, just fucking blows the fuck out of it, right? It just blows it up. And I'm like, damn, these motherfuckers got us back. And so when I realized what happened, because I'm a lead truck, I'm like, I hear a big explosion, like, what the fuck happened? And so I like finally figured out that the second truck got blown up. We stopped, the trade do a security halt, and we started hearing shots like we're getting shot at. I remember telling my gunner, the dude up in like the turret. I'm like, I'm his name's Polly. I'm like, Polly, why aren't you shooting, dude? He's like, I don't see anything, Sarge. I was like, I don't fucking care. Find something to shoot at it, you know, like an ambush. Like they won't, like, if people ambush you, they're gonna ambush you more if they don't hear shit going on. So I'm like, find something and start shooting at it. So he like starts unloading on shit. I got out of the truck, I met with uh Lieutenant Duke Dillo and the medic, Devlin, and we go check on Flores, who is the truck commander of the second truck, and so the ID exploded kind of like underneath the passenger side, the front passenger side. And we like the door's kind of blown open a little bit, we kind of force it open a little bit, and his leg is just fucking hamburger meat. Like, oh god, that was like that, that doesn't look good, right? Like it's just all kind of just fucking shit everywhere, right? So Doc does his thing, fixes him up and shit. He's not gonna die, and everybody else has some like trap null in the car too or in the truck. So we call MetaBax and all this shit, and then of course the fucking Navy guys want to come and they want to like excavate and do investigation shit and IEDs. We're like, fuck man, we don't got time for this shit. So we're supposed to do this meeting, and then we're supposed to go back to the base to meet up with the other team that's going to Nerdstand. So we're out there for so long, and like a bunch of our people are like injured, or the fact that like they think we're like combat ineffective or whatever. So this other team leaves to the Nerdstand mission without us. So they continue without us, so we're back at the base finally at some point at night, and we're just we're chilling, kind of doing our thing. And at some point, we start hearing like radio chatter on the radio. We find out that uh the team on the Earth Stan mission is under attack, like heavy, heavy contact, shit's going down. And this should have been you, or could have been you. I I should have been there. Yes, it should have been me. So uh they're in contact, uh, heavy contact, like you can hear the fucking stress in their voice. It's it's awful. And we hear there's a KIA, so there's a killed in action, and like immediately, like my mind never stops. So like I'm like thinking of names, I'm looking at faces in my mind, and I'm like, fuck, who is it? Like, right? So I'm like, so some of my guys, my normal guys, are on that team or on that mission, so it was like kind of like a split, right? I'm like, fuck, I hope it's not one of my guys. So I find out eventually staff sergeant Patrick Libert, which is like my fucking dude. Like, he's my rock, the guy I want to be like as a leader. And I'm like, there's no fucking way this guy doesn't die. This is like the dude that doesn't die.

SPEAKER_01

Right.

SPEAKER_00

This is like the fucking rock, dude. Like, when I found out he died, I'm like, how the fuck did they kill this guy? Like he That's the toughest SOB out there. 100%, dude. Like, I would never like if I had to like put $100 on who wouldn't die during the deployment, it would be that guy. Like, there's no fucking way anybody would kill this guy. So I was hoping they got it wrong. Obviously they didn't, unfortunately. So this battle rages on. So it's probably first class, uh, he gets severely wounded. They call on a Medevac to try to Medavac him out. So this Medevac Blackhawk Black Hawk helicopter comes in. Um this flight medic lowers down. Like it's like it's a jungle penetrator, they call it. So it's like a steel cable that gets lowered down, and it's like a big ass hook. And what happens is like the flight medic like straps himself into that and takes the person that's wounded onto that hook, and they get hoisted back up, and they're supposed to fucking fly away to save this person's life. So they strap up this PFC, private first class guy, a flight medic. They strap up, they start getting hauled up to the helicopter, and about like halfway through, maybe three quarters, the cable snaps, and these two fucking people plummet to the their deaths. They both fall to their deaths and they fucking die. Like, how fucking sad, dude.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

It's like unfair, life's unfair, war's unfair, and these two fucking guys die. So like and the other the other sad part about this uh whole engagement, um you have a starting first class, Jared Monty, right? So he's uh he tried three separate times to try to save this part of first class, a guy who was severely wounded. I remember he was saying, hey, it's my guy, I'm gonna go out and get him, because he's out in the open getting shot at, like, essentially about to get fucking killed. So he tried out three different times to try to go get him. And uh eventually he got trap knoll. And he he never he never made it back, so he died. Right there, too. So you have this whole engagement, you have fucking four people dead. It's almost like for what, dude? You know? So whole thing's just fucked up. Whole whole thing's fucked up. I remember hearing all this on the radio, and I like tell my guys, I'm like, pack as much ammo, fucking grenades. I don't think I need tripler triplers at that point. Leave the triplers uh and just get as much shit as you can and let's and get on the helicopter landing pad. Because we heard there might be uh we might need some like people to go in and kind of help these guys out. So I have my whole team or what's left of my team on these fucking helicopter landing pads, and we're just waiting. Helicopters waiting there, they're in their weird little fucking spin thing where they're like kind of ready to like take us off. And we like we we get told that we're we're not going in. They don't want to send us. I guess they send enough like fucking mortar rounds and artillery rounds um to like fight these guys off, and the attack subsides. So we don't get sent. Um essentially the next day, which is almost more fucked up or just as fucked up, the the our fallen brothers get flown back to us. And the part of this is uh we have to the medics say, hey, we have to they put them in new body bags. I don't know why. I don't even know why this is a fucking thing. So the whole the whole company, the whole battalion's out there at at attention, watching these hell these Black Hawk helicopters come in with our dead brothers. And uh Ums for volunteers. And I of course I have to fucking do it. I told myself I have to. So I walk up to one of Blackhawks and uh grab his fucking body bag. Um There's like certain things that you don't forget ever. The weight of the body bag? I don't think I'll ever forget. Sorry, I lock my shit up. So grab the body bag. Fucking awful, and then we take it to this staging area, and uh we unzip the bag, kind of confirm the the identity, and I realized I was uh carrying uh Jared Monty. We put him in a new body bag, and while I'm doing this, I see Patrick Leibert next to him the whole thing's fucking sad, dude. So I see them and I'm like fuck. I think everything like inside me was like shattered. Like, uh I think that's like kind of when like when life really became real for me. So uh we we bag them back up. Fucking sucks. Put them back on the black hawk, and then uh they fly away. We give them a salute, probably last time I ever seen him. And then uh fucking carry on with life. That's what fucking sucks about the military. You just carry on, dude, right? It's probably the hardest thing I've ever done. It's fucking awful. So about kissing your friends dead? Is that fun?

SPEAKER_02

So I know this is probably a a weird question, but if you could um if you could say anything to him now, what would you say?

SPEAKER_00

Probably thanks. Thanks for the good times. Thanks for teaching me uh what it was like to be like a good leader. Thanks for uh taking me under a wing, I guess. Um Thanks for having fun with us. Thanks for fucking having a few beers with me. Like it was he was a he was a good fucking dude, both of them were great dudes. I knew Jared Monty less, um but he was also a great fucking guy. Um he also ended up getting the Medal of Honor for that for that mission. Um I think I would just say thanks to both of them, dude. Being being selfless and just doing their thing, and then just man It's just survivor's guilt. It's just like if you keep thinking about that shit, man, it fucks you up. It eats you alive. Right. I had that for a while and it was really fucking eat me alive for a long time.

SPEAKER_02

I'm sure you have. Um can you talk about speaking with people that were involved in the engagement? Um because sometimes I feel like as weird as it sounds, I feel like sometimes it's harder when you're not able to part participate in something that you feel like you should be in. Um where you're hearing it over the radio and you're like, I should be there. These are my fucking guys. And not being able to be involved in it. Um have you talked with some of the people that were involved in it? Obviously. Um and how have they deal how they dealt with it?

SPEAKER_00

I think I I agree with you that me not being there probably fucked me up even more. But also like I know myself. I pro probably would be fucking dead right now, to tell you the truth, because I would probably have done try to do some stupid fucking shit to try to save someone, I would probably would have fucking died too. Um I don't even know how I should say this, but so my assistant team leader, uh, the guy I I loved a lot over there, um he recently died. Under I wouldn't say suspicious circumstances, but he survived that whole thing. And it took a toll on a lot of people. It took a toll on a lot of people. A lot of people's mental health really got fucked up. Not surprisingly. Um it's funny, we me and my wife recently went to South Carolina and she got to meet my some of my degenerate fucking military people, and uh one of the dudes she met was on this mission and was very much a part of it. He's a good fucking dude, and she kind of told his story when we were drunk one night at a bar uh in front of my wife. So my poor wife, she hears too much too much shit. She's just exposed to everything, right? My whole fucking military career, cop shit, but she she's she's great, she takes all in stride, but I'm like sorry for my degenerate friends, like you know, like so I just think it's it's hard all the way around, man. Like the other thing too is no one ever talks about anything. Like you're just supposed to be this hardcore stone-faced dude. And like, if anything's wrong, people don't talk about it. Right. I don't want I don't even want to talk about it. Like, obviously, I'm emotional about it. Like, we box up all our shit and we like just fucking cram it deep down inside. Like, I'm sure I'm gonna die of a heart attack at some point because all my shit is just so far deep down inside, and I don't I don't want I don't ever want to let it out. Like, this is hard enough just doing fucking this. I can just imagine if I actually spoke about this all the time.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

I think it's uh Bill Burr does a skit on uh men are allowed to be angry and fine. It's like the two emotions were allowed. I can see that. Yeah, yeah. But I mean, obviously, um you're not the first person, or you will be the last that comes back um from the military with an abundance of trauma. And you know, you're you feel fortunate to even be able to come back. Um but yeah, obviously the things that you had to endure, the people around you had to endure. Um it's not easy. Not easy to live with.

SPEAKER_00

Well then the other thing too, the mental health thing is a whole nother fucking subject, right? Like I f like l having lived both, right? The military shenanigans and then the police shenanigans, I feel like the police shenanigans get enough PTSD attention as it should. Like there's so many different fucking incidences where I that itched into my brain just as much as the military, right? Like baby autopsies, tune CPR on babies that didn't make it. Um a mother that hung herself and her kids found her. Like that's not okay. Like you you shouldn't be doing that, right? Um people don't know that you have to go like when you do the ICAC search warrant, the internet crimes against children, you have to when you go find that fucking porn, you have to watch the child porn. Like that's not healthy for anybody. Right. So you have to do all that shit. And I don't think people understand all the mental health shit that cops have to do every day, too. So I don't feel like the PTSD shit is talked about enough for the police either.

SPEAKER_02

Right. Well, I think it's not a stereotype, but it's mostly a a male profession, and we're not good at that shit.

SPEAKER_00

I mean, the army broke through, but they did it, and that's mostly a military or a male profession too. So I I think there needs there definitely needs to be some work done on the uh police mental health side of things because I mean we see some fucking crazy shit too that gets to that standard, right? Like stupid shit that we have to deal with all the time. Um that needs to be dealt with.

SPEAKER_02

Amen. And um to go along with that, and I like not to get to semantics because you said see a lot of stuff, but you hear stuff. Oh, yeah. And you smell stuff, and you feel like and you talked about the perfume, but then the dead bodies, and then you hear stuff. Uh my um hearing, my audio, that's just those are the things that I can't forget. Oh, you're a you're an audio guy? Oh, I'm an audio guy. When I hearing the horrific screams that I've had to hear or the different sounds, way worse than this than the seeing things.

SPEAKER_00

It's so weird how it's so different for so many different people. Yeah. Like I remember uh I was walking down like a Home Depot aisle, and I like stopped real quick. I was like, Oh man, that smells like a dead body. And my wife's like, What the fuck are you talking about? And I'm like, it smells like a dead body right here. And she's like, I don't even know what you're talking about. It's just so weird, like, smells are my thing. Right. Okay.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, smells are my thing for sure as well. We were out for a walk the other night and going by a particular house, I told my wife, I was like, I just I'm so sensitive to the smell. And I was like, This smells like a dead body. Like it's a very distinct smell. Could have been an animal, maybe back in the in the field or something, who knows? But like it just stands out, and the problem with it is smells are so closely related to like your visual memories. So you smell something, and all of a sudden you instantly start thinking about the calls you've been on. Yeah. And it kind of like flashes almost like a highlight reel through your head when you just get a whiff of something.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, or it's your neighbor that has a bunch of flies and it hurt males fucking backed up.

SPEAKER_03

So yeah, those smells tend to uh literally stick with you.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I'm definitely an audio guy. Interesting. I had a uh person set a dog on fire, and the dog yelping and screaming was I can I'll never forget it. It's yeah, it hits me.

SPEAKER_03

But yeah, it's terrible stuff that uh people in these professions have to endure.

SPEAKER_00

I just don't know why it's not talk about more.

SPEAKER_03

Like I think it's getting it's getting better. I think it's getting better. Like we're seeing a lot more people openly share their experiences. I think it's just it's tough. You know, like you said, it's it's really tough to be vulnerable in front of a group of other people.

SPEAKER_00

That's fucking true, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

You know, especially in a profession like the military or law enforcement where you are expected to have this like level of I can do like I can bear anything. Like you are the problem solver, you are the one people go to. So it feels very uncomfortable to put yourself in a position where you're like, you're gonna break down and be vulnerable and share the things that bother you. It's tough.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, there's a I think it's I do think it's improving. I think it used to be back when I started, it's like you just don't talk about it, you don't deal with like whatever. You don't go to see anybody about it because they're gonna take your your badge away and your gun away and you're gonna be done. Now I think it's it's moved to a point where people are like, yeah, I should probably go see somebody, but I'm not gonna make that appointment. I'll do it, I'll do it at some point. Someone's there. It's probably a good idea, but I'm just not gonna do it. Yeah, we need to do it at some point, but it's uh and I'm hoping it just takes that little step forward. It's like almost not where it becomes mandatory, but almost it becomes mandatory. It's like, listen, just go talk to somebody. And if if you don't need anything, they can you can talk about retirement and what it is, because we're all fucked up.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, dude, all we're all fucked up, yeah. 100% dude.

SPEAKER_03

Well, I think it's letting people know that it doesn't mean you're not okay if you talk to somebody. Right. I think that's the thing though. If you it's like in your head, and maybe for me, it's like if I have to go talk to a doctor, it means I'm not okay. Right. When the reality is it's that's not what it means, it just means sometimes that helps you process it in a more healthier way versus suppressing it.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, dude, yeah. Yeah. I think that's what I need. Like, I don't know.

SPEAKER_02

The no it's the first step is hard. The first step is hard. Um, I'm not ashamed to admit that I've started seeing somebody in the last six months. I've started seeing a therapist, and um, because I was just I was angry for a reason that I couldn't understand. I was like, why am I so angry? My life through the outside lens is great. But I was like, I'm so frustrated and so angry, and I just get mad. Um, and again, probably for a lot of people that probably know me and watching this would be like, never see you angry. My face looks like I'm angry all the time all the time.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, all the time. Yeah, but still working on it. It's working on it. You need to keep working on that one.

SPEAKER_02

It's the only face I got.

SPEAKER_03

Like, have a different face. I've been more happy.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, but you know, I've been talking, uh I've been talking to a therapist and you know, it's been good, it's been healthy, and so um it just it uh rationalizes some of the things and lets me know that I'm not as uh fucked up as I think I am. Maybe I am, but it's like okay, but you're not alone in this. So sure. Yeah, well, I think it seems healthy to get different perspectives too. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

And sometimes it's better to talk to people who know nothing about what you go through because they have a different perspective.

SPEAKER_02

True. I I agree with that, but I also think that somebody with um competency in the the profession, like to a military person, it'd be hard to talk to somebody who had never been in the military because you're explaining things and that becomes um frustrating. Speaking to somebody who doesn't have any knowledge of like what law enforcement goes through. I would hate to tell somebody about my experiences and they start crying. Happens. Um and then you're like, the fuck are you crying about it? You're supposed to help me there, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

God damn it.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I didn't need that. Now I feel bad for you. Now I need to hold back what actually I I I part like I experienced. So I think having um like a subject matter expert, somebody with core competencies in military trauma um and law enforcement is super advantageous. And again, it's just not all the people in that profession are great. Um, but I think they have well intentions, they have good intentions, but I think it's a thing that needs to be, I think, probably more looked at. And how but how do you get people like how do you lead how do you lead that horse to water and make him drink?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, good luck.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, exactly. Because we're all like, yeah, fuck that, I'm fine. Yeah. And you're like, okay. Yeah, like not from my perspective or not from the perspective of people with two fucking eyes that are looking at it, but you're like, please do, and they're like, eh, no, I'm good. And so it's like building that trust and making it not such a leap of faith and just going like, this is not a big deal, this is what we should do. Because I think people should want to get to the end of their careers, but also people forget about how retirement looks when you have less on your plate and what you're looking at and what you have as your memories. You want those, you want to be able to deal with those memories and those thoughts and those things because not all of us do that well. I think we we work and we push ourselves through those moments, and we're like, oh, I'm kind of in this bad, okay. I'm just gonna work more, I'm just gonna push harder and not think about it, not deal with it. But when you retire, you're like, oh, I'm just dealing with all the things.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, it's probably not a healthy way to do it because then it crashes on you, right? Like at the end of your career versus taking care of those thoughts and feelings you have over time is a little is probably a better approach.

SPEAKER_02

And you're isolated, like you're less busy and you're isolated, and like I've said kind of before, when you're alone with your own thoughts and those thoughts are not good, like okay, how do you deal with that? Like, sometimes you can distract yourself with just life.

SPEAKER_00

And also, you work so hard for your fucking pension, like it's you should be able to enjoy it. Take advantage of that shit, just be happy, you know? Enjoy your uh kids, enjoy your grand like when your kids have grandkids, like just be a fucking happy person, right? You know, like I want nothing more than watch my kids play sports right now. That is exactly where I am in life. Like every practice, every baseball game, every soccer game, that is like my happy spot right now. Yeah, and when they have grandkids, fuck, I will be at every fucking baseball game, every soccer game. Whatever you're doing, I'm I'm there. Like that is makes me so happy.

SPEAKER_02

So my dad was in the army, and um I kind of I think I stated in a previous podcast, he would never tell me about his experience like in the military. He was an airborne army ranger. Oh man, never talk about it. He'd never talk about it um in in the Vietnam War.

SPEAKER_00

So it's like gangster as fuck, dude.

SPEAKER_02

So, like, is that something that you, when your kids get a little bit older, you're willing to share some of your experience with the kids, or are you gonna protect them from that? Because I think it's healthy, my personal opinion, again, not that I have your experience, but it helps explain you, the totality of you.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, so I think my kids already they kind of know a little bit. I've been kind of like shielding them from like the the gruesomeness of it, I guess, or the the craziness. Um so they both know that they've been named after Patrick Leibert and Jared Monty. So my my boys' names are Patrick and Patrick and Jared. So they know where they kind of got their names from. And I kind of explained to him like the men that they were named after. So there's that. And like we have like these bracelets that were made for them that I wore in Afghanistan for Patrick and Liberty or Patrick and Jared. Um, so we had those, and like when they were infants, like you were just born, we had the infant photos taken with these bracelets, right? Like I wanted to keep the legacy going. I wanted my kids to have some strong names of some very strong people. And so um they have these shoes to fill, and my my boys will 100% fill those shoes. Like they'll be great fucking guys, and they will be strong, and they will fill these shoes and fill the legacy and fill the names of these two badass dudes that died in Afghanistan. So so they know some. Right. Um, they don't know the actual gruesomeness and craziness of what happened, but I think at some point I'll tell them. I just um, you know, they're eight. So there's a time for it. Yeah, I'll tell them when it's when it's time, but they don't need to know right now.

SPEAKER_02

Right. And hopefully, I mean, hopefully a value of this is maybe you can share this with them at some point when they're older and ready to receive it. For sure. Yeah. Um, I hope this is advantageous and helpful in those in those regards. Yeah, for sure. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. Speaking speaking of all that, and maybe moving into some more happier, happier thoughts is like, what are some of your takeaways, your overall reflections on your military service and those you served be beside? Like what are your I don't know, what did you walk away from all of that with?

SPEAKER_00

I mean, almost like a like a a sense of like accomplishment, I guess. Uh there was a lot of tough times and I overcame all of them. Um it's sad when I guess sadly, like, we had a lot of people commit suicide when we got back. I think we lost more people when we got back than we did in actual Afghanistan. Um but I love hearing a good veteran success story. Like there was a couple of my buddies who actually succeeded and did great shit with their life. I love hearing some good veteran success stories. Man, uh I don't even really know. I just I just want people to do good. Um really take away. Just love life, dude. It it can be so short. I guess is just cherish every minute of your existence, I guess. I know how d fucking cheesy that sounds. But have a life, love your family, love your kids, dude. Um I love the shit out of my kids, I love my family, my wife's amazing. Just fucking enjoy life, I think is my biggest takeaway, because I realized how fast life can end, I think, is my biggest takeaway.

SPEAKER_03

It's a good one.

SPEAKER_02

Absolutely. Um you had mentioned like a movie or a documentary for somebody who hasn't experienced what you've gone through. Is there some visual movie or thing that you have watched that goes that captures a little bit of it?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, so Restrepa, like I mentioned in the corn gall, that was a great documentary. Um, there's a couple things. So we we uh another part of Afghanistan, we set up uh Camp Keating, which was in Camdesh, which is like it was like double one of the bloodiest US battles in all of Afghanistan. There's a bunch of people that died there, a bunch of Americans, unfortunately. A couple people got like American or sorry, uh Medal of Honors there. Um The Outpost, I don't think it was like a 2020 movie, The Outpost. Oh, there's some famous people that run that one. I can't remember who. That was a good movie, per se. They kind of mixed our deployment with the their deployment. Um, like Lieutenant Ben Keating, who the base was named after, he died in our deployment, but they made it like an hit in that movie's deployment. I don't know. They mixed a bunch of shit. That's why I hate knowing too much because the movie could have been great if I didn't know so much. Right. Um a lot of other stuff too. So during that movie, like the first couple minutes, they pick up a stuffed animal in the uh in the like one of the barracks inside the outpost. And uh that was like a good uh tribute to like uh Patrick Libert. Like his mom's all about stuffed animals. Like I said, she sent um some of my kids already. Um they were Hilltop 2610, where this huge battle happened where both my buddies died. Um there's a book written. It's called uh oh man, um shit. I don't really remember the name right now. Oh, um I think it was called The Outpost uh by Jake uh Tapper. He wrote a book about this whole experience. And then um have you guys heard uh oh man, what the fuck is that song? Um I Drive Your Truck by Lee Bryce. Yeah, yeah. So that whole song had to do with an interview uh with um Jared Jared's dad. So Jared's dad had some interview with some lady on the on the on the radio. So Jared Monty's dad like had this interview and that which inspired the whole fucking song with I Drive Your Truck. So the whole song was inspired by this interview with Paul Monty, which is Jared's dad, and that inspired the whole song. So if you like look up the origins of that song, it had to l literally do with Jared Monty who died and this guy that had the the Medal of Honor. So it's like a random bunch of random song that's popular too.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

This is a bunch of randomized shit from this one deployment is all kind of like randomly in our lives that we don't even know about.

SPEAKER_02

Um true law enforcement question. Is there anything that we didn't ask that you want to discuss?

SPEAKER_00

That is a that is a total law enforcement question, dude. Is there anything I didn't ask that you think? Every interview. Yeah. I think I ask everybody that fucking question at the end of my interview.

SPEAKER_03

That comes to mind.

SPEAKER_00

I do want to talk about like uh this this one um incident that happened after the Nuristan where we like we we called it the revenge revenge mission. So we went and revisited the the Nuristan area after my friends died. We called it the revenge mission. So we got helicoptered in. We go hiking up this mountain, we kind of like see where what happened, um the exact area where like my friends died, and this whole firefight happened. So we spent a couple days up there, we're doing like our surveillance thing. We find some some dudes that were doing some nefarious things. Fancy words. Yeah, thank you. Um some nefarious things, and um I got a bunch of RPGs, AK 47s, and go in this house, right? So we like call some A-10s in and we fucking bomb the shit out of this house. We blow those all those guys all up. So, I mean, sadly that kind of made me feel a little bit better, right? They just killed our friends. Maybe these guys were responsible. I don't know. So we we blow up this house. Uh so the mission's over, and we start like walking down. We're gonna get picked up by some black hawks to fly out of there. Mission's over, and it's hot as fuck again, right? We're in Afghanistan, it's summertime. So we're walking down this mountain. I'm leaning the whole company or what's left of the company down, and I put us all on a security halt to like take a break. Like, everyone needs water, it's hot as fuck, we're tired, right? And so I'm like sitting there, and like you have a big ass pack on your back, so you kind of like sit there and you're kind of like held up, like it's almost like you're in a lazy boy. And then I just hear these like footsteps, or at least what I thought with footsteps, like and I'm thinking, fuck, here we go, dude. Right? So I like raise up my rifle and like my senior scout's behind me, so I get his attention. I'm like, hey, footsteps, I hear footsteps, like fucking get ready, right? And then this biggest fucking lizard I ever seen in my fucking life, like a monitor lizard, like Komodo dragon, like that kill pigs, lizard, like huge, like I'm not not even exaggerating. This thing probably could have taken me out, dude. And so how big? Like, what are we talking about? Massive, dude, like eight, like six, eight feet, dude. Oh shit, like that's like a crocodile discovery channel of Kimoto Dragon, dude.

SPEAKER_03

Komodo dragon human eater, dude, 100%.

SPEAKER_00

Like, not even lying, but like, of course, like no one briefed us on giant lizards in Afghanistan. Nobody, right? I didn't even know that was a fucking thing, right? So, like, me and this lizard like lock eyes, and I'm like, What are you doing, dude? And I'm like, am I fucking dehydrated? I I don't know. Am I seeing this thing? And I'm like looking back on my seeing your sky, I'm like, are you seeing this thing? Is this fucker? Am I supposed to shoot this thing? Like, I have no clue. Right. I'm like, I don't even know if I'm seeing what the fuck I'm seeing. And so we're like looking at me and this lizard looking at each other for a while, and this motherfucker just like says peace out, just jumps on his stomach and just slides down this mountain. And I'm like, Jeez, what the fuck just happened? This was this real? I don't even know. I don't even know what was happening. So just weird shit, bro. Like weird.

SPEAKER_03

Almost got eaten by a dinosaur.

SPEAKER_00

Never never got a brief about giant lizards in Afghanistan, but there you go. There was one right there.

SPEAKER_03

That would have been nice to know.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Like I didn't know I was gonna might get eaten by uh monitor lizard. I don't know. Or Kamo Dragon, Komo Dragons, I don't know, or those things or monitor lizard? I don't know. Yeah, huge fucking lizard, dude. And I thought I was just gonna get murdered by some Taliban guys. Wild.

SPEAKER_03

So that's crazy.

SPEAKER_00

And I just this just the the one thing I think I took took away from all this is like all of us young guys I think came back older than what we were expected to be. Like all of us aged probably way fucking older than we thought we were gonna be. So like you know, we came back like I don't know 23. I I think I came back what fucking bad at math. I don't know, 22, 23 years old? I felt like I was fucking 40. So like we aged a lot. Um ate a lot in those 16 months. They aged me a ton. So I don't necessarily I don't know I don't know if it's necessarily a good thing, but I age a lot. I don't know if it was like a fine fine wine or what, but yeah, I don't think it was.

SPEAKER_03

We'll let someone else decide. Um well for sure we um super appreciate you and everybody obviously who has served in the military. Um takes a special kind of person, I think, to to take on that sort of assignment and do so with the risk that are involved.

SPEAKER_02

Right.

SPEAKER_03

And um, you know, it affords us the the freedoms that we have in this country that some of us, quite frankly, I think take for granted because there are people over there still right now, every day, doing a lot of the things that you just spoke about.

SPEAKER_00

The ninjas.

SPEAKER_03

The ninjas that are behind the scenes working, for sure, struggling, sacrificing, missing their family, being away from home, and coming back with with issues. And coming back with a whole host of issues and struggles and challenges, and I don't know. I don't know how we can ever really repay the debts that are owed to the people who serve.

SPEAKER_00

You know, but I don't know necessarily think you guys can, but what you're doing now is great because my repayment to them is keeping their their memory alive and you guys on this platform are helping me do that, and I 100% appreciate that.

SPEAKER_02

You're absolutely welcome. No, we're honored to uh hear your hear your story and hear their story. Thanks. Um and I hope it's um not only advantageous for you, but hopefully it's helpful to um their families and their parents who um sure would love to know that their uh their sons were cherished. Thanks, Jeff. Appreciate that.

SPEAKER_03

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, call me, thank you.

SPEAKER_03

Absolutely. And on that note, there was a um so you wrote a you wrote a letter, uh speech, if you will, that uh we're hoping that you'll you'll share with us to bring this episode home. So for those of you at home who have made it thus far, as usual, we appreciate you so much. Um this was another episode of Broken Perspective Podcast, but we hope you stay for just a few more moments uh to listen to a uh touching letter and uh speech that was written by Paul Myovis here about his fallen brothers in the service.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and this this speech kind of like, or I guess letter, I don't really know what to call it. Um it it fell me in like a deep dark space when I got back. Um it's had many different versions. I think the first time I was f fucking hammered, depressed, and I think this is kind of how I like help evolve out of my depression, I guess I would say, is I start jotting down ideas and kind of made this letter, I guess, uh is what I would call it. And it evolved many times, and this is kind of like my final version, I guess. It might evolve more. I don't know. We'll see. But it's every Memorial Day it comes around and I'm like, man, you know, I might have a drunken moment and I pull this thing up and a little sad moment, you know?

SPEAKER_03

Well, we appreciate you sharing it. So I don't know if you need to pull it up on your phone or if you need me to grab it for you or probably grab it real quick. Yeah. Yeah, go ahead, grab it, and then uh yeah, we'll take your time.

SPEAKER_00

I'll try to get through this without getting too emotional and fucking it up here. So Alright, I stand before you, not just as a soldier, not just as a veteran, but as a man who carries the memories of those who no no longer have a voice. I stand here to tell their stories, to honor their sacrifice, to ensure we never forget. Because for some of us, every day is Memorial Day. At 18 years old, I had my whole life ahead of me. I wasn't sure what I wanted to do, but I knew I knew one thing. I love this country. I believed in service, I believed in something greater than myself. So I made the decision that would shape my life forever. I enlisted in the United States Army as an infantry soldier, assigned to the 10th Mountain Division at Fort Drum, New York. In 2006, we were deployed to Afghanistan in support of Operation Enduring Freedom. I was young, I was naive, I thought I understood war. But what I didn't understand, what no amount of training can ever prepare you for, is the weight of loss, the way it changes you forever. War has a way of making you feel invincible until it doesn't. You walk through firefights, you dodge bullets, and somehow you survive. We had been in combat before, we had taken enemy fire before, but we hadn't always walked away. We thought we were untouchable. Then came June 21st, 2006. That day our unit was split into two missions. My team was sent near the Pakistan border to meet with village elders. Along the way, an ID detonated under one of our Humvees, and we came under attack. Somehow we all survived, but several of our men were badly wounded. That delay meant we couldn't join the second mission, an Operation Neristan, a region we never have seen before. That mission went on without us. That night I sat at the Ford operating base listening to the radio. Voices on the other end were tense. Troops in contact, KIA, killed in action. I sat there, heart racing, praying I misunderstood. Then I heard his name, Staff Sergeant Patrick Libert. I refused to believe it. Patrick had been my mentor, my rock, my guide. He had taken me under his wing when I was a young sergeant, shaping me into a leader. He was the strong person the strongest person I knew, physically, mentally, in every way. And just like that, he was gone. But the deaths didn't stop right there. That night, as the battle raged, our wounded needed to be evacuated. A medical helicopter was finally sent in. Staff Sergeant Heath Craig, a flight medic, strapped himself in to Priver's Class Bradbury, a severely wounded soldier, to hoist them both up to safety. As they were both lifted up to safety, the steel cable snapped. They both plummeted to their deaths. War is brutal, war is unforgiving, warner doesn't care how much you love someone. By morning, our fallen brothers were flown back to us. The medics told us their body bags needed to be replaced. We stood at attention as the helicopters landed. They asked for volunteers to help carry our carry the bodies. I stepped forward. I had to. I placed my hands on the first body bag and immediately felt the weight, not just the physical weight, but the weight of loss, of grief, of finality. We carried them to the stationary. One by one, we unzipped the bags to confirm their identity. Then I saw him. First Sergeant Jared Monty. Jared had died a hero. He tried three separate times to rescue PFC Bradbury, running into gunfire again and again. He never made it back. For his courage, Sergeant First Class Monty was awarded the Medal of Honor. I turned my head and saw Sergeant First or South Sergeant Leibert lying there. The man who had taught me how to lead, the man who had been my foundation, the man I had believed was unstoppable. And in that moment, everything inside me shattered. We saluted our fallen brothers and watched them fly away, knowing we would never see them again. Years later, in September of 2011, I received an email. First Sergeant Billy Cirx, my old platoon sergeant, had been killed in Afghanistan during a mortar attack. Billy was a father, a husband, an airborne ranger, and a man who would give anything for his soldiers. In May of 2013, my wife and I worked walked the asphalt roads of Arlington National Cemetery, following the signs to section 60, Grave 9731. I stood at Billy's grave, I told him I missed him, told him I remembered, and I stood in silence, because sometimes words aren't enough. People asked me why. Why would you go? Why would you risk everything? It's because of them. The Brotherhood. The love we had for each other. A bond forged in combat stronger than blood. These men, my brothers, are heroes, and I carry them with me every day. The Battle of Hilltop 2610 was one of the most infamous engagements of the war. Their sacrifice was not forgotten. Their story was memorialized in a book, The Outposts, An Untold Story of American Valor by Jake Chaper. A radio interview with Sergeant First Class Montes's father inspired the country song I Drive Your Truck by Lee Bryce. A song about grief, remembrance, and holding on to things, our fallen brothers left behind. In the 2020 movie, The Outpost. A small but powerful moment takes place in the first few minutes. A soldier picks up his stuffed animal in the barracks. That was in honor of Staff Sergeant Patrick Leibert. Our unit had the tragic duty of setting up combat outpost Keating, named after Lieutenant Ben Keating, who died during its construction. That outpost would become later become the site of the Battle of Camdesh, one of the deadliest battles of the war. Their names are etched in history. Life is precious. Now I have twin boys, and I gave them the name that carry honor, meaning, and sacrifice. To my brothers who have given everything, I will never forget you. To those who made the ultimate sacrifice, we will carry your names forward into this country for which they laid their lives down, and we always be worthy of their sacrifice. God bless America. God bless our fallen heroes.