Struggling to make friends as an adult? Must Listen EP. #12

Stop wasting time and just be you up front! This next episode is all about making friends as an adult, maintaining those relationships, and all the challenges along the way.

If you've ever felt like navigating friendships as an adult is challenging then this episode is for you!


#Adultfriendships #Friends #relationships #adulting #Podcast 

Appreciate you all for tuning in! Be sure to share some feedback or differing perspectives. We welcome it all. For most the action, follow us on Instagram: 

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

led to this podcast was uh you started this like this company, your um kind of social media, your uh media company uh while you were working and you were like, hey, let's do a podcast. And I'm like, I don't know. I could go bad. Being front and center. I'm not really sure. That's not really my jam. And then when you medically retired, you presented it in such a way you were like, hey dude, like I don't want to like stop being friends out of proximity. Like you're gonna be busy doing all your things with coaching and work and I'm gonna be trying to build my business. If we do this podcast together, at least we'll have the opportunity to hang out once a week. We'll drink a beer and we'll just chat like we normally do when we were working or when we would just go out and grab a beer or when we were coaching together. And I was like fuck yeah I'm all about that like let's do these like nobody watches it that's fine. That's fine. We'll just but it gives us an opportunity to hang out. And I was like I'm all in.

SPEAKER_00 1:02

Welcome to Broken Perspective Podcast where we challenge beliefs, learn from others and aim to be better people. I'm Colby. And I'm Jeff and today we're talking about why is making friends so much more difficult as an adult? And really like what causes some friendships to continue to flourish over a lifetime and grow while others seem to quietly drift away over time. Well that's what we're here to talk about today but before we do Jeff my friend what are we drinking?

SPEAKER_02 1:34

Ooh today from Chico we are drinking the New Zilla from Ramble West Brewing Company.

SPEAKER_00 1:42

New Zilla, I like that Newzilla, I like the uh little godzilla in there turning things up yeah the name's cool these cans I really like these cans from uh Ramble West they uh they always kind of have like this matte finish um that looks pretty nice.

SPEAKER_02 1:57

Okay and uh and here we go here we go for the poor it's actually not bad right there I'm liking it yeah uh here cheers real quick and cheers cheers my friend cheers my friend it's good stuff that is tasty I like it yeah it's good thank you thank you for bringing it and shout out Ramble West Ramble West yeah way to do it all right so it's been a minute since we've done a uh just you and I episode yeah what's funny is this kind of this came to fruition pretty quickly uh last night at dinner my youngest son Tyler usually he poses these odd questions like hey if you had a superpowered aliens were he throws all these things out there and you're like I don't even know what the question is anymore but he uh we were all sitting at the table and he just asked he was like Dad what would make you end a friendship and it was a great conversation piece for the for the whole family everybody was able to contribute and think about it and um so I just kind of was like hey let's talk about just friendships in general so yeah yeah it's a good topic and when you told me that uh as of this morning I thought uh yeah this would be a good one to talk about because you do hear a lot you know as you go through life and you kind of get older you go through your job your career marriages like friendships really do I think become harder to establish harder to navigate because I think there's just so much going on in an adult's life right where it's hard to dedicate time to friendship especially when you do have a a spouse or a girlfriend or right you know you're in a long-term relationship being able to have time to go out and make friends is it's difficult and you hear about it a lot.

SPEAKER_00 3:50

So maybe let's jump into the first question that comes to mind is like is it more difficult or in your experience is it more difficult to make friends as an adult?

SPEAKER_02 4:01

I think well adulthood is such a long a long thing. So there's times where um I think it is difficult in certain um phases of life I think especially um especially when you're a new father or a new mother I think your kids get pretty much the entirety of your your time and your energy and your focus. And I think um that's a tough time to um create new friendships or even maintain uh previous friendships because it's just a different a different path. And I think that goes on a little bit until um usually when the kids are able to stay home by themselves. And I think for the parents that usually can open up a hey let's go get together with friends like you know um your wife and and my wife and I we all will get together and you know we can go out to dinner or something like that because our kids are old enough to kind of not require a babysitter and they can be left um alone by themselves. But if if people fall out of practice and sometimes they fall out of the um making that a priority and being intention having intentionality behind it. I think that can make things dissipate. But then really I think what your question um kind of goes into is how if you don't have friends or you you've moved to a new area which I'd be interested in you like you move to a new area where you didn't know people how do you create friendships as an adult when people are kind of going through those processes at the same time yeah well I think the challenge as an adult comes from you're not told to be anywhere specific.

SPEAKER_00 5:46

So it's really it's on you from the time you graduate school or college or whatever to put yourself in positions that will lead to the potential for friendships and meeting people. And I think that's the challenge for a lot of people especially in this day and age where there's a lot of things that can be done from home. You know, talk about remote workers and stuff like that. So I really do believe the job that you have the hobbies that you you acquire through adulthood plays a tremendous role in how easy it is to make friends because whether you're you know if you're a remote worker I was just a quick story like today I was filming for a client who does marketing he does marketing for real estate investors he was telling me he was like pre-COVID he actually had it in he had an office and he had like some of his you know local team in the office they got together he was able to like speak with them every day and have that interaction right after COVID happened it really just made more sense for him to go remote with most of his workers because they really didn't need to be in the office all the time right and today when he when I was talking to him before we filmed he was saying he's really really wanting to you know get another office really just for the adult conversation and the camaraderie and being able to be around people to have a friendship. He's like I spend all day on the computer talking to people so it's not that I'm not talking to people it's just that the interactions are very curated they're very we have something to accomplish like there's a meeting on my calendar with this task I don't want to waste people's time we get on Zoom I interact with these people and then we're off and then I'm just back to sitting quietly in a room and so for a lot of people depending on the job that you have and where it puts you can really make it difficult to make friends as an adult.

SPEAKER_02 7:31

Right. No I totally agree um there's I heard about this this rule it was kind of like I think it was like the 1136 rule where it takes from to turn an acquaintance into a friend it takes like 11 interactions that last for more than three hours within a six month period. And I thought about that and I was like is that probably why we end up becoming friends with our coworkers so much depending on what kind of a job you have like in law enforcement yeah you don't get to you're not just like standing by each other the entire time but you know in a 12 and a half hour shift or a 10 hour shift you guys go to the same call, beat partners and whatnot um you do and then having those shared experiences, you tend to have like you get tend to create friendships with it, which is why in the academy they often kind of warn you they're like hey make sure you maintain uh friendships outside of law enforcement because I think the natural tendency is like well these are the people I'm hanging out the most with we chat all the time and then that becomes kind of your circle and then you're hanging out all the time and doing that which is great for friendships but um in some jobs that's not that's not as uh likely to occur but I think when you're working at the same place it can occur.

SPEAKER_00 9:00

Yeah. Yeah but that can lead to stagnation and growth too like is if you're always talking to people that already know the same things as you correct you kind of get in an echo chamber and that's where that importance of maintaining hobbies and friends outside of your own profession for all professions I think really is a good thing because you don't want to be around people who are always the same level as you not that you're trying to be better than people but you want to be around people that are going to cause you to grow and sometimes getting out of your everyday environment is a really good thing. But again that that really is different for people with different professions. Like I always think of like when I think about the topic of you know or most adults that say it's really hard to make friends what comes to my mind and maybe I'm wrong is like people who either stay at home moms, maybe work in IT where they're behind a computer all the time and it's kind of like their interactions are a brief moment of someone pissed off saying I can't log into my computer.

SPEAKER_02 9:59

Right.

SPEAKER_00 9:59

Like that's their interaction with so like already socially awkward off. Co-workers for an IT guy are a lot different that it's a lot different than co-workers for someone who's been in law enforcement you know as a first responder or you know any profession where you work as a team it's very different. So man I really think your profession is such a huge or has such a huge impact on how easy it's going to be to make friends.

SPEAKER_02 10:27

There's obviously other things layered in there like your own character traits and personality and and that but yeah I I I agree and um going to the you know the idea of the stay at home mom like how hard or how how is how do you navigate that like how would somebody navigate that and be like oh how do I maintain friendships because I imagine that could be a very isolated world I only think of like the like the movie Bad Moms where there was that stay at home mom. She had like four kids and she was such a weirdo. Yeah um I think it was Kristen Bell that played that role but she knocked it out of the park but it was very funny.

SPEAKER_00 11:09

Yeah um and just like yeah I don't get out much I you know and she's super weird and you know but she didn't have any friends and so I'd be interested in how you know yeah yeah I think there's I mean there's obviously ways to to address it and you know my wife and I chose for her to be a stay-at-home mom when we had our first son first kid and uh say first son like I said if I have two kids two sons right one boy one girl um you know but we chose for her to be a stay-at-home mom and that's something that she had to navigate because prior to that she you know she had you know just general jobs and stuff where you go out and you meet your coworkers you can go have coffee and you have people to call and you you naturally establish those friendships but as a mom like being at home with the kid that is your priority right and by the end of the day from what I understand from her experience is like you're exhausted and the last thing you want to do is go out get dressed up and go meet with your friends like you just want to rest right you know and so it can become a really lonely time period I think in stay-at-home moms' lives and that's why they have forums about this stuff and that's why I think it's a it's common knowledge that a lot of new moms can fall into like depression or have the postpartum depression and I mean think about the significant changes that go on hormonally but also just your everyday what how different it is right. Right. But some of the ways to combat that though is by you know maintaining maybe hobbies that you had and hopefully having a good partner a good husband that can give you a break when you come home and you can go maybe to the gym or you can go have coffee with a friend and get a break and it's not always easy though. Like I know for for me and my wife you know during that period looking back in hindsight like I could have done better to support her but to be fair at the same time I was brand new in a new profession as a as a deputy sheriff you know working patrol and trying to get my my you know find my find my feet and so a lot of my energy was just in this new career new profession trying to be the best cop that I could be that was my newness while she was going through the newness of being a mom.

SPEAKER_04 13:17

Right.

SPEAKER_00 13:17

And so I for whatever you know just the way it was I didn't have time to maybe be the best partner to support her in making friends and giving her time to go do things. So it's a really challenging thing.

SPEAKER_02 13:29

Well early on in a profession like that like establishing your reputation is everything. You have to establish and you get called in you get forced in for the overtime and no is not an answer. You have to come in and do that. But going back to uh maybe the stay at home mom or mom uh or people in certain professions um like my wife um would often she was a teacher and she would you know work around kids all day and when she work around kids all day or you're staying at home with kids all day kids all day and it's like you start kind of talking like either a teacher or like a parent all the time and you're like don't talk to me like that. Like I'm not one of your students I'm and it's very a it's a fascinating thing and they're not intentionally doing anything shitty on purpose but it's like that's how their mind operates and so if you're you know home with a toddler or a couple of toddlers yeah you're on mommy mode strong and then husband comes home and she's still on mommy mode and you're like I don't that's yeah gross to me.

SPEAKER_00 14:37

I don't I don't yeah can we go back to uh yeah the girl that I married and date and stay away can we just separate but that's not always easy for them and especially that's why I think it is important for them uh in everybody to have uh adult relationships yeah I think it's they can navigate I think it takes a lot more intentionality and being proactive on your part if you are one a stay at home mom or if you work in a profession where you aren't around a lot of people and you don't have a lot of uh meaningful interactions that are not just work related. Right. You know, some professions like law enforcement afford you the opportunity to have a lot of interactions that aren't they're meaningful but they're not necessarily work related like you know in between calls you can go debrief things you can talk about what you're gonna do on your day off and like you have time.

SPEAKER_05 15:27

Right.

SPEAKER_00 15:27

You know generally there's there's these lulls in the day where you have time to connect with your coworkers and stuff and talk about hobbies and interests and things that you know just make it easier to find and connect.

SPEAKER_02 15:38

Or should just laugh. Yeah or just laugh just laugh because you're like otherwise I'd go into some sort of depression. Yeah so I just want to laugh and I'd and I think that's I guess the next question uh for me is is like when I guess what kind of people or what kind of friends do you kind of like what characteristics like uh resonate with you when finding like oh I'm gonna hang out with that dude or I'm gonna try to hang out with that person more.

SPEAKER_00 16:07

Yeah 100% the first thing that usually attracts me to people in general is like someone who can laugh really easy. I don't like I feel uncomfortable when people are too dry and uncomfortable with themselves almost right like so if just a small example if I smile at somebody if there's a coworker that I'm around and I just smile at them when I walk by and they're just really like eyes down don't ever smile don't laugh about things it makes it harder to initiate and connect with them I think for me. So the first thing that usually stands out to me is do people laugh a lot you know I really really appreciate humor. I think it's a it's a like it's a unifier for a lot of people right um although it can be obviously a uh you know something that separates people too like I just I don't I don't enjoy my time with people that have a hard time laughing or take themselves too seriously. I agree with that I know for me like when I'm working and I'm doing things sometimes the perception can be that I do take myself too seriously just I don't know it's just my face is the way my demeanor is but if you're around me for more than 10 minutes like and we're not actually on a task right I really try to make light of things and not talk about serious things. Like I really like to just have a good time and and laugh and be fun. So that's I would say number one humor for me. The other thing is probably going to be um just like doing what you say you're going to do. You know I don't know I just go off my experience there's been people in my life that you know you're your acquaintances maybe or you're kind of navigating that line between acquaintance and friend and you try to schedule things to go meet up and do things and they're just always like flaky those kind of people or you're like hey I'm thinking about doing this like are you available and they're always like well let me let me see and I'm like okay well when can you see and they're like well let me get like those kind of people that are just like they don't want to commit to anything they're kind of like let me see what's best before I commit to you um so I think humor and someone who can just show up when they say they're gonna show up and are are decisive. Right. For me those are like really big character traits that I I kind of gravitate towards.

SPEAKER_02 18:27

Right. Yeah I I'm the same way it's if um probably doesn't paint me in the best picture but if I can make fun of you and you can make fun of me and we can both laugh at like you said uh humor and doesn't take themselves too seriously. There's a lot of people uh when you meet them they're trying to present especially in law enforcement I'm sure in every profession they try to give you like their their resume of awesomeness.

SPEAKER_00 18:54

Right.

SPEAKER_02 18:55

And I'm like that's neat. Tell me about the things you fucked up and give me an embarrassing story like like I kind of said in a previous like the superficial conversations just bore me to death and I'm like let's get like tell me something weird about you. Tell me something interesting. I like people with ambition I like people that um are pushing themselves and are that know things that I have no knowledge of and you're like that's awesome like that actually that reminds me of like going back to the challenges of making friends as an adult as an adult I think a lot more people have like this front when they first meet people they're we're a lot more guarded as adults we all are yeah right because we're we want to judgment sitting on the high judgment we want to present ourselves a certain way and we're always trying to walk that line of like how does this person feel and how am I you know how am I presenting based upon their reactions versus if you think back to being a kid right kids make friends so easy because they are unapologetically themselves.

SPEAKER_04 19:58

Right.

SPEAKER_00 19:59

They're not going to the playground thinking about at least early on they shouldn't be kids are not going to the playground thinking about what everybody else is thinking.

SPEAKER_02 20:07

They are just being their goofy they're 100% themselves right they're dressed up like a ninja turtle right their favorite ninja turtle and some kid will be like I like that ninja turtle and you find each other and you become friends.

SPEAKER_00 20:19

We're friends there's not a lot of like foreplay right it's like oh that was funny like you just kicked a ball at him I thought that was funny. We could be friends.

SPEAKER_02 20:27

And then lo and behold you're friends 30 years later.

SPEAKER_00 20:30

But I think as an adult we have to navigate this like okay you almost have to go into adult friendships or adult meetings. Some people are quicker than others but you have to go into them understanding that there's going to be a barrier initially like almost like this like false present not really false because I don't want to imply everybody's being fake.

SPEAKER_02 20:50

Right.

SPEAKER_00 20:51

But we're all guarded and you have to peel back the layers a little bit right some people are lot less guarded right now I'm way more up front. You know some people are and but then that could be a turnoff for some people right 100% but that's go ahead you don't behave because I think a lot of people do expect a certain sort of like vibe when you meet people like not like being a little bit reserved.

SPEAKER_02 21:14

Right.

SPEAKER_00 21:14

You know and so when you maybe don't do that and you call them out on something and they're like I barely know you and you just called me out on something they might not like that. Whereas for some other people they may really appreciate it or laugh about it. Right. Right. So it's just it's a really hard thing that adults navigate understanding that people are going to be guarded.

SPEAKER_02 21:33

Yeah I um I'm very forthright very quickly like almost like to my wife is like you share too much way too soon. And I'm just like well I I can't remember who said it it's like there's eight billion people on the earth if they don't like me let's just get that out of the way real quick and we'll just move on and I know perfect no hard feelings we're not we're not uh gonna Be friends and I'll just move on and start. But again, the mundane, superficial conversations like this, this puts me to sleep. So I would rather start with you know meeting a person and really quickly start talking about God knows what, but make it fascinating more quickly versus how are things good? Good cool. Hey, how's work? It's like, yeah, no thanks. Yeah, and I think unless and and then when people are reserved, the answer is good. It's pretty good. And I don't need them to blow smoke or do anything super weird, but it's like, give me something or come out and just be forthright. If work's shitty, tell me it's shitty. If it's awesome, tell me it's fucking awesome. Like, but give something versus the regular, just canned answers. And so um, yeah, I get really bored with things like that. So again, something I'm trying to improve on, but I kind of don't know if I'll will because I don't know if I really want that change.

SPEAKER_00 23:01

You just have to be you, and like I think the quicker, the quicker you can just be you when meeting people, you're gonna find your people quicker, right? Like, why waste time? Like you just said, like, why there's a lot of people on this planet, why waste time like to get to who I really am and be who I am to make friends? Correct. Like, I'd rather just be like, next, you're not my people, or maybe you come around later, right? Right. Like, how many people have you met, or how many people have come into your life where maybe initially you were kind of put off by them for something? Whatever reason, and then like six months down the road, you're like fucking really good friends with them, or you're just like, I really like this person, and it was something that changed your perspective on them because maybe you had a more meaningful reaction. I can tell you, like, for me, that's happened a number of times in my life, and not necessarily not necessarily saying I became really great friends with them or anything, but like there's people I met at various jobs where initially I just thought they looked fucking stupid, just being judgmental, or I'm like, that dude's a fucking turd, or like I don't know, just whatever it was about their their presence, their aura. I was just like, I just don't think I like them.

SPEAKER_02 24:10

Right.

SPEAKER_00 24:11

But then you see them in a particular situation, or you see that their response to something that really connects and resonates with you, and then all of a sudden you're like, fuck, I really like this guy. And then maybe you open up more to them and you're more like open-minded, right? You you develop some interest, you talk to them a little bit more one-on-one, because sometimes people are way different in a group than they are one-on-one as well.

SPEAKER_05 24:34

Absolutely, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:35

And then you actually take the time and you're like, fuck, I really like this person. Like, even though my initial response was like, dude's a weirdo.

SPEAKER_02 24:44

Right.

SPEAKER_00 24:44

Like, so I mean, how's that happened to you?

SPEAKER_02 24:47

Oh, 100%. Like when you were telling that story, it reminded me um when I worked.

SPEAKER_00 24:51

That was you, I hated you.

SPEAKER_02 24:52

No, no, not no dislike, but it was it was that like when I worked for my previous agency, um, we would have our workout time, and somebody invited me to go for a run. And so we started going for a run, and a third person that I didn't know joined us. And again, not that I was a good athlete, I was like trying to fight for my life to keep my wind, but we're trying to have a conversation. And this guy, just in appearance, totally judgy Jeff mode, looked like a square bear. And I was like, whatever. And he started laughing or kind of having this little smirk when something inappropriate was said. And I just I went for it. I was just like, dude, you look like you're are you one of those fucking sickos? And I just started calling all these things like you look like the type of dude that has some obese girl on top of him, whipping him with a ball gag, and he just like, yeah, and he starts laughing, and I'm like, oh, we immediately became friends. Yeah, I was like, I I kind of wrote him off. I was like, I don't know if and then he just he smirked and laughed at something that was inappropriate. I was just like, dude, you look like a you look like a weirdo. You you are you a weirdo? And he just like, yep. I was like, I was like, fuck yeah, dude. Now you're interesting to me. Let's talk about and again, totally made up all this stuff, but the fact that he was willing to laugh, he was willing to kind of not take himself too seriously when I when I totally just made this thing up about him and just owned it, or yeah, I loved it. Like I was like, and then we became great friends. Yeah, but that's also a good person to reference because since I left that agency, we you know we're no longer in proximity, but that was my guy. Like we hung out, we worked as beat partners for years, and then I go to another agency and we do the text each other like once a year on New Year's, like, hey man, happy new years, haven't talked to you. And you look, you scroll through your history, and you're like, Oh, yeah, I haven't talked to you since I sent Happy New Year's last year. Yeah, and it sucks because I love the dude, and you're like, but it's just not proximity, it's just seasons of life and things change, and uh, you know, we only have so much time and energy to put into friendships and the people around us, especially when you're going through that phase. I was going through the young children, so I'm being, you know, trying to be the best officer I can be, going to try to be the best dad I can be. Well, that doesn't usually coincide with going out frequently. Right. But this it's just it's still not an excuse. It's like even now, even now to this day, I should probably just reach out to him and be like, hey, my dude, let's go grab a beer. Because when we the last time we did it, we laughed hysterically. We had a great time, it was fantastic. Like, why don't I do that more? Why don't we do that more? And it's like we just always have things. And sometimes I think it's the assumption that we always have things too.

SPEAKER_00 28:01

It's like if I was looking at the Kevin actually gave a specific invite that they said no to. Correct. Or are you just assuming like we're just kind of busy?

SPEAKER_02 28:08

Yeah, we're just busy. So he's not in my top five, six, seven people that I reach out to when I have a free evening. It's like, uh, he's further down the list because we haven't worked side by side in eight, nine years.

SPEAKER_00 28:21

And so which is common. I mean, I've definitely and I think we're gonna get to that in a little bit, like the um, you know, friends from growing up and seasons changing and how people fade in and out of your life. Right. Um, but I just wanted to talk real quick a little bit more on because we talked about the importance of character traits you look for in friends, which is you know, for us it seems like um laughter, humor, you know, doing what you you know, being a person of your word.

SPEAKER_05 28:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:49

Um, but also like I think it's maybe we can talk about some of the things that are instantly a turnoff for you when it comes to being around people. Because I I'll just I'll just say one of the things that I one of the things that turn me off about some people that would make me pause and say, I don't know how close I want to get to this person, are people who do a lot of gossiping, a lot of they're like you know, those people we can always think of someone in our life who when you're when you're in the room with that person, they're usually talking about somebody. And this goes for coworkers too. We've all been around those coworkers, dispatchers, people who just like it's exhausting when it seems like that's all they want to do is talk about people. I think it's why me and you have become such good friends is like we rarely talk about people, we talk about life, we talk about ideas, we talk about hobbies that we're into, like what are we doing, like what actions are we taking in our lives to be better people? And we talk about our faults, we talk about we talk about things that really aren't people specific, right? Whereas for me, like when I hear people talk a lot about others, to me, it just makes me uneasy. And I think this is something I try to instill in my friend in my kids is like don't be that person that's always talking of others because to me, I always have that idea when I'm in the room around people like that. I always think like what are they saying about me when I'm not in the room? Right because I'm I know I'm not perfect, and sometimes they're talking about people where I'm comparing myself and I'm like, that dude's actually a pretty good dude, or she's not that bad. And I'm like, Well, I know I'm not perfect, so they're definitely fucking talking about me. And I think I don't always think it's intentional. I think some people are just they now they gravitate towards like gossip. So I don't want to say, like, I guess my point in that would be like be careful like who you got how much you gossip.

SPEAKER_02 30:46

Everything like those things are contagious, positivity and negativity are both contagious. So if you're constantly just ripping people apart for their flaws and little things, and everything's a slight, it's exhausting. And then um I know for me I can fall into that. Um and I and I have like when I when I came to I want to say uh like early on, but it was definitely I made a uh an intentional act. I was like, I am not participating in any of that, not participating in it. That way, if it ever got around that like, oh Jeff said something about so and so, everybody would be like, absolutely not. That's not what he does. Um that was a that was an actual intentional effort. Did I was I able to stick through that through eight, nine years? No. Um, obviously you get rubbed the wrong way by certain people and certain things that happen, but um, maybe it's something I should go back to and really just try to make an uh uh intentional thing to just be like, hey, let's just focus and be stay positive and just stay positive. And I tend to be really positive in my my current position. It's just like I have a good team and I don't have to be negative.

SPEAKER_00 32:13

Yeah, and it's something we all do. Like, I'm not saying I'm immune. I obviously I say things about people. Um, we have experiences that we share with those around us, and sometimes we're looking for like um we're looking for people to affirm the experiences that we had, or like, hey, this happened with this person, right? What do you think?

SPEAKER_02 32:34

So and so got selected for this spot. What do you think about that?

SPEAKER_00 32:37

Right, so it's natural team or like it's totally natural. So, like obviously, we talk about people, but you really I think the key is just putting yourself in check and you know, if if three quarters or even half of the conversations you have usually are talking about other people, I just think maybe we should like take a step back and change kind of especially when you can adjust it to be like, okay, well, how do we how can we help make people grow?

SPEAKER_02 33:03

How can we or just provide an environment that brings people along with our journey, which again is not spotless, it's like we're just trying to, you know, case in point with the podcast, it's just trying to go outside the box a little bit and try something different. And hopefully that inspires and and and brings people along with us.

SPEAKER_00 33:26

Well, and maybe this is like more of the leadership side of me um trying to be a good leader. But like I think when I think about all those conversations that you hear people talking shit about others, I'm always like, if you put half the energy into complaining about it to maybe just going and talking to that person, how much better maybe that person could be, or maybe the relationship between you guys could be better.

SPEAKER_02 33:47

Right.

SPEAKER_00 33:47

You know what I mean? Like that's always my thought when I hear negative things. I'm like, well, who who's actually addressed it? Who has had the actual courage or care to go approach that person and say, hey, these are some things that are going on? Are you open to some feedback? And then giving them feedback. I just I don't think that's really common anymore. I think so many people are, you know, they'd rather be passive, and you'll notice it. Like, I guarantee if anybody's out there and they know who these people are, next time you're in a room with somebody who's complaining, just ask them, like, hey, did you have a chat with them? Like, stop them in their tracks. Yeah, did you talk to them about that? Like, that sounds like you're obviously really passionate about their behavior. Right. When was the last like full conversation you had with that person about oh, well, you know, they don't care, they're not gonna talk about it, right? They don't want to change. But no, those are all your assumptions.

SPEAKER_02 34:39

Like, well, I have a funny story about that because um I remember working and uh had this one guy who's really like two friends, and I'm working with one, and he's like, Oh, I hate that guy, my other friend. And I was like, Why would you hate him? You guys are just alike, like you guys should probably get along very well. I'm like, What why do you dislike him? And he was like, Well, you know, he did this, and I was I got sent to his a call in his beat of deep uh domestic violence because he did a traffic stop and whatever. And I was like, All right, well, did you talk to him about it? And he's like, No, fuck him. I'm like, how long ago did that happen? Three years. I'm like, what the fuck? You know, people hold on to things for so long. I was like, and then you talk to the other guy, and he's like, Yeah, it was a great bus. I was looking for this car for weeks, and then I found it and got a gun out of the car, and yeah, you know, he got all this like okay, so you had like.

SPEAKER_00 35:41

Well, and the sad thing is one of the guys probably didn't even know the other was mad about it. Like, how many times has that happened where somebody is mad about something, but because they never spoke to the other person about it to get their perspective, like someone that's a problem, though, is like that other person is probably oblivious to what you're mad at them for, and or you just started treating them like shit, right?

SPEAKER_02 36:03

And then they're all bitter, and they're like, real fuck that guy. And you're like, this was built over nothing, over maybe a misunderstanding or a lack of information.

SPEAKER_00 36:11

I mean, yeah, I think most most like battles or disagreements or people who don't like each other, it's usually over something dumb, a misunderstanding. Right. There was probably no ill in pride, no ill intention in it, but people are just uncomfortable having a chat with somebody and saying, like, and believing them too. Like, that's the other thing, too. It's one thing to like go do it to check a box and be like, I checked in with them, and they didn't, you know, they didn't respond, but like like actually sit there and like look them in the eye and say, was that your intention, bro? Like, because probably not, right?

SPEAKER_02 36:45

It yeah, and then to go along with that, one of the things like when we do like our holiday party, it's like there's some people that are not the most popular at an apartment or in a workplace or whatever. And so when I was hosting one um for the holidays, like people are like, Oh, you're gonna invite so and so it's like, yeah, everybody's invited, and really then it became just like I may not like love their work ethic, I may not, but it doesn't mean I can't have a beer with them and doesn't mean I can't chat with them. It's like maybe their work product isn't up to the standard of which I hold myself or what I think it should be. It doesn't mean they're just a disgusting person, so yeah, there's also trying to alleviate that one for the other. Maybe they're in a different part of their career. Whatever the case is, it's just like you don't know don't hang on to those animosities as long as they do it.

SPEAKER_00 37:34

And you don't know what season of life somebody is in as a coworker. Like, I think we're so quick to assume someone's character traits or behavior because like those people that I've worked with in law enforcement that come to work, put their head down. I don't really like them because they don't really want to participate in anything, but at the same time, I don't really have anything I dislike about them. I just they just don't seem very friendly or whatever. But I just to me, maybe my optimist side of me is like, well, they probably just got a lot of shit going on in their life, whatever. Like, you just really never know. Right. So I try to just remain like neutral with people like that, and it's hard sometimes because like you know, there's it's more fun when more people participate, and when somebody's like a the Debbie Downer, and you're like, uh Yeah, I mean it it it can be awkward sometimes when you're trying to invite people on a shift to go grab lunch or do whatever, and they're like they don't want to go eat or and not that it's one time, it's like multiple times, or they're the first to leave briefing and just go disappear for the rest of the day.

SPEAKER_06 38:32

Right.

SPEAKER_00 38:33

And you're like, bro, I haven't seen I only see you uh briefing, and then when we walk to our cars together, right? You know, but at the same time, I try to be or I tried to be good about like being like you just don't know what season of life they're going in. Maybe there's a lot of shit going on in their personal life that they just they don't have the energy to interact. But I think all these things play into like the development of friends and just understanding the dynamics of people and I don't know, like just being open-minded to people that you are around. So you're not you're not eliminating opportunities to make friends and develop and learn more about people who I think we started on this by saying like people who you didn't think you liked initially to you really like. So like give people a chance, like get to know them, take some time to you know figure out what makes sense, seize the opportunities around you, around people, right? And you might develop some really good relationships.

SPEAKER_02 39:29

So I guess going to Tyler's question, um what things could occur or what has led you in the past to eliminate friendships? Because I think we can also oftentimes kind of let things go by the wayside and be like, ah, I'm just gonna call them less, or just but you were like, nope, this is where the friendship is pretty much done. I don't want to hang out with this person anymore for whatever reason.

SPEAKER_00 40:00

I think I've been really fortunate in my life that I haven't had any like friendships that I had to like put a hard stop to.

SPEAKER_02 40:07

Yeah. Um I think we can all pretty much think of people that we just kind of like you're now lower on the totem pole of the city. Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 40:15

Like, you know, people fall out of your life where you just don't interact as much, and maybe you don't have as lively of a friendship. You know, you still consider them friends, but you're just you don't have a friend, an active friendship anymore. Um, for whatever reason, and we can talk about that. But like there are definitely reasons why I think people like I would cut people off. Um I think for me personally, um repeated lying would be an issue, you know. Um, the gossip thing is really big for me. I think it would it would be hurtful to think that I someone is more friendly than they are to learn later that they are actually speaking ill behind your back. Like two-faced people, two-faced, yeah, or maybe even not even sticking up for you. Like I I really believe in loyalty, and I don't that doesn't mean you have to accept everything someone does. Right. Like, I have friends where people have said things before where I'm like, I don't agree with that assessment. And I but I'll I'll speak that though. I'll be like, eh, maybe, maybe you're off there a little bit. Like, I'm not saying you have to like disown those people that are like speaking that way, but I would present another side for my friend because I probably know them better, you know. So I just I really appreciate people that are honest, that will um, like I said, um I don't know, just just just be loyal. And so like people that would talk behind your back or um lie, or if you're constantly, constantly chasing the friendship where you feel like it's never kind of a not that everything's not reciprocal. Not everything has to be back and forth. Like I get going back to the seasons of life, just like any other long-term relationship, I think there's gonna be an ebb and flow of how much people give or how much they can give. Right. Um, so that's not a deal breaker, but if it's constantly one-sided, I would probably you know cease like pursuing that friendship. Maybe the other thing would be like if they led a lifestyle that I 100% not just disagree with, but don't want to be associated with, right?

SPEAKER_02 42:16

It's uh an integrity characteristic. Right. And I think that's that's reasonable. Um, when we were going around the the dinner table, that was kind of one that was brought up. It's like this person was doing things that made me uncomfortable, and then it kind of did this like well don't tell anybody or else. And it was like, whoa, yeah, it's not good. Wait, so I have to accept your shitty behavior? Yeah, uh, no, thank you.

SPEAKER_00 42:49

Yeah, no, that's a that's a really good question that Tyler asks as far as like ending friendships, because it can be hard because I don't know, there's people that you meet early on that I think can present one way and you're like, I really like this person. And it can be hard to let people go out of your life. That I mean, there's people that I've met in this world that you can really appreciate certain characteristics. There's people who are really funny that I that I could laugh with that all of a sudden make decisions or do things that would cause me to say, I cannot be friends with that person. I love that they're funny, right? But let's say someone who gets into like really heavy drug use, for example, maybe we're great friends early on, and this is just a hypothetical because I don't have this in my life, but I've seen it. Um, someone who you really enjoy, they're really funny, they're creative, you know, you enjoy being around, but all of a sudden they start using drugs and go off this path where they get heavy into it, and all of a sudden they're becoming like a thief. They're stealing from people, they don't have a job, they have no ambition anymore, they use a lot of drugs, they're abusive maybe to like people around them. That might be one of those things where that's a friendship that you don't want to really associate with and be a part of. However, I'm not saying you would just cut that person out of your life. I think as a friend, a true friend, you would address it with them, right? You would say like, hey, I love you. I love every like I love a lot of things about you, but this life that you're leading and the things that you are doing are completely unacceptable. I don't agree with, I don't want to accept. If you don't kind of make a positive change, I just we just can't be friends. Right. It's not I know who your heart is, and maybe it's like I I really wish you the best, but I can't be friends with you.

SPEAKER_02 44:33

Yeah, but a lot of people aren't a lot of people aren't confrontational with their friends. It's like the friendship was based on fun and positive and all these things, and let's hang out. And then when they get a little uncomfortable, they're like, uh, I'll just choose to distance myself. And I think that's where most people end their friendships. Very few, um, I bet you probably very few people, percentage-wise, is more like a almost like an intervention. Like, we're gonna do this or else we're not gonna be friends. And because it's like friendship is a gift, it's not an it's not an entitlement, it's like it's a gift that you have to earn it. You can you earn it, and if somebody betrays it and you're like, no, I don't want to hang out with that person because they're dishonest, disloyal, uh, they're doing things that are uncouth, then you're like, okay, let me let me just step away from that because I'd rather as I say they just go further down the totem pole, and you can only keep so many people. I think you can keep a lot of acquaintances, you can keep friends, but your inner circle can only have so many people, like you only get so much free time if you're a busybody and you're like, okay, I what can it go ten deep with people that you'll actually call? Probably less. I think they're I think it's usually about five. I think is their yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:50

I think five is probably the recognized number of like how many solid relationships you can actually have at any one time. Right. And I think I mean we only have so much energy to give and energy and time to because, like you said, uh I mean, relationships are earned, and they I was thinking about this when you brought up this topic today, like friend, friendship. And in my head, I was kind of thinking, I think there's kind of a distinction between friends and friendship. To me, friendship is an active to me, friendship is almost like an it implies that there's an active ongoing relationship.

SPEAKER_02 46:24

It's still going, it's still going to stop.

SPEAKER_00 46:26

And I was trying to think back. I was like, there's a lot of people in my life that I I would call them friends, but I don't know that I have friendship with them. For example, like I have a really good buddy back home that I grew up with named Tori, and like he's my friend. Fucking grew up with the guy. We hung out a lot, we had the same birthday. Like, I'm friends with the same. We were born on the same day, different year, but same day, same birthday. Like, we just we got along. He he basically lived with me for like a couple years while his family was, you know, navigating some challenging times, and uh like your family didn't have challenging times, yeah. But I mean, because we're different, you know, and he's my friend, right? Like, if I went back home to Arizona tomorrow and I was in town and he was available, like we could probably just pick up and just start talking, even though we haven't really had any meaningful conversations in a really long time. Like, I think the last time I really sat down and had dinner with him was maybe like seven or eight years ago. He's my friend, right? But do we have a friendship? Not really, like, we don't have a friendship right now. I don't I think I text him on our birthdays usually because it's the same day. Yeah, you know, so like Tori, back home. I love you. I hope you're doing well. Um, he's my friend, but like we don't have a friendship, right? It's not actively ongoing right now. We just we have our own lives. You again, you only have so much time and energy you can commit to what's going on in your life. And so I just I was thinking about that distinction. I'm like, we can have a lot of friends, but how many active friendships that are meaningful can you have at one time? Right. And it's not really that many. I don't think so, you know, not to be not to be um like fulfilling and you know, give energy to.

SPEAKER_02 48:08

Have you ever cut off a friend because of their spouse or the way they raise their children?

SPEAKER_00 48:22

Um I guess let me say it this way. I haven't had a friend that we were already friends for a while, and then all of a sudden I realized they were raising their kids a certain way, or they're they and their spouse had a relationship that I didn't agree with that we cut off. But I would say as a parent, there has been people that has come have come into our lives where our friends become or our kids become friends. And then so we, you know, as a byproduct of that, you kind of become friends with the parents. And then those relationships, I have had some where it's like we hang out really as a uh because of our kids.

SPEAKER_01 49:02

Like a play date with the kids.

SPEAKER_00 49:03

Yeah, a play date that turns to like, oh, let's meet up and talk more. And then six months down the road, you start learning more about who they are as people, their worldviews, their perspectives, how they treat their kids. And there has been there, yeah, there has been people where we're like, we don't want our kids to be, um we don't want them to be seeing that modeled behavior. We don't want uh our kids to be pervy to the lifestyles that they have in their thoughts and their worldviews. So it's not so much that we're like cutting them off as friends, but we're just we kind of like you said, we choose not to spend as much time with them. And and eventually it organically grab, you know, gradually goes to like we just don't our kids don't hang out anymore. Right. Um so that has happened, and I think it's not that they were bad people, I just going to the idea of like you really you become who you you are around a lot, right? That goes for our kids as well. I want to be selective in who my kids are around and who's influencing them. And so yeah, that has happened. Um, I just haven't had like where we we knew we were already friends, and then all of a sudden it was like, whoa, I don't like that, so we're not friends anymore.

SPEAKER_02 50:17

It was usually the ones where we only became friends because of our kids first, yeah, and then yeah, what you said um where they kind of develop the traits of the people that hang around. Uh John Rones. I think he has Jim Rohn.

SPEAKER_00 50:33

Uh Jim Rohn, I think. No, John. Um John?

SPEAKER_02 50:37

Bookrunner? Yeah, I don't know. Maybe I'm uh maybe I'm uh look it up. But he basically said he has the rule of five and that you become the average of the five people that you spend the most time with. Um I didn't read the book whether like how spouses are parents and what at what um at what level that that goes to, but the concept seemed reasonable to me. And I have acted upon that like with my children, where you're like, I don't like the way this kid's being raised, or I don't like some of his characteristics. So again, it's I don't have control of who they hang out with at school. I can't control like, okay, they're gonna hang out with the friends that they have. But I feel like we take a, my wife and I take an effort to go, who do we invite into our home? And so we want those five to be like, okay, they have ambition, they're pushing, they're educated, they they care about school. They're not just their whole time's not spent with lazy fuckery. Um, and you're like, so I remember, you know, my oldest when he was in elementary school, like, hey, can I have so-and-so over? Like, uh, I think he's busy. What about so-and-so? And bring him over. What about, yeah, bring him over because he represented things that uh were more into our values. Um, I think that's important when with raising kids, but also being mindful and being um intentional with friendships. It's like you can hang out with the the people that you grew up with, but you know, maybe you don't have as much. We all we're all growing, all changing at different rates. But you know, if there's a person that's like, oh, you know, we used to go hang out in bars, you know, until we were like 24, like from 21 to 24, like every night we were at players and sack and we were at different pubs. And it was like, if if they're still doing that in their 40s, like ah, I don't want like that's not the that's not the group, but sure, when we get together, I would love to go, you know, grab a beer somewhere and and and chat. But I think it is important to surround yourself with people that have ambition, that have um things that are gonna help you grow, not just always just reminisce on what happened in elementary school, junior high, high school, which can be fun, yeah, but it gets real tired if there's nothing there's nothing new bringing built on that.

SPEAKER_00 53:12

Yeah. Yeah, I agree with all of that. I think I think it's a hundred percent true. I mean, you how could you not be the sum of like the most people you're around? As humans, we are, I mean, we kind of reflect our environments and we tend to I mean, if you're in a if you're in a tough environment, you're gonna be tough. If you're in a weak environment, you're gonna be weak. Like it's just the way human nature is. So I think who you put yourself around is really important. But that doesn't just go for friends. I because so many people, if you think about it, we spend so much time at work, right? I forget what the stats are, the numbers are, but we sit we spend a very significant amount of our lives in the workplace. And so I don't think people put a lot of thought into the kind of people they're working around and how to how to like offset that, right? Think of law enforcement, for example, the people that you are around. Would you it would it be fair to say you are with probably four or five people in your career more than a lot of your individual friends that you call friends? Oh, absolutely. You spend a lot more time with them, right? Yeah, do you think it's possible that they in they influence you and your mood and your the th your energy and everything about you more than your friends, even though you call them your friends, those people influence you a lot because they take a lot of your time, your energy, you're communicating with them every day. You know, you guys develop relationships for better or for worse, and like they're around you a lot. So I think there just needs to be there needs to be a distinction of is it the five friends that you're around or the five people you're just most around in general?

SPEAKER_02 54:52

Well, I think yeah, I think that is an interesting question because I mean one, you're that doesn't sound like the way I want it to, but it's like you're kind of being forced, like it's your shift, it's your it's your team. Um and you don't get to control that, but you get to control who you've invited into your home. Like you don't get to like to with my kids, you don't get to control who's your classmates. Right. But if you know both my sons are now going into high school, but if like they have friends that are like, let's skip school, let's skip school, let's do do drugs, let's drink, they're more than likely to start participating in those behaviors. So, but if I remember one of the proudest moments I had um was when I was listening to my oldest and his funds, his friends were all making fun of each other, which I love. It's probably not the most productive thing psychologically, but they just rip each other apart. But they were ripping each other up, they were ripping on this one kid for getting a hundred percent on his test because everybody else got like a hundred and ten percent. He didn't get like the bonus questions, and I was like, You guys make fun of each other in a very unique way that I'm not used to. We, my friends and I, our love language is ripping on each other and making fun of each other. And again, probably not the most productive thing as you get become an adult and like, hey, let me tear down everything about you because I know everything about you. Yeah, but they were making fun of each other for not being the most exceptional and getting 110. Like, bro, how dumb are you? You're not getting 110 on your test. Yeah. And I was like, my friends would have made and made fun of me if I got 100% on your test. Yeah, they'd been like, bro, nerd, yeah, bro, nerd study, study what the hell's wrong with you getting good grades and shit. Or like, uh like that I can see being having a negative impact if you took it seriously. Yeah, and yeah, I think when you have a div uh a group of friends, especially in elementary school that has grown, you kind of don't take it seriously because you're just like, you guys make fun of me for things I didn't even do, they just make up things. Yeah, like I I'll tell the story, Pat, if you're listening, kudos to you. We were watching a movie one time, and I think we were late high school, early college, and it was Inner Space, which is an old ass 80s movie that sucked. And um Martin Short was dancing when I was just flipping through the channels, and I was like, dude, I hate that guy. And my buddy Pat turns to my buddy Eric and goes, Hey, hey, who am I? Say Jeff. I love Martin Short. And my buddy Eric's like, Yeah, that's Jeff. All right. For 30 years, anytime we talk, he's like, dude, how's Martin Short? You love Martin Short. That joke has just been beaten to death, yeah. But that's Pat, and he just crushes that joke repeatedly, repeatedly. And I can always expect, I'll probably get a text message tomorrow and be like, hey, who loves Martin Short? Because he'll watch it and whatever. But those things are fun to me, and that's what I think true friendship is. It's like it we could be apart for you know 20 years, and when they show up, we start back up exactly as we left it. Yeah, yeah. And is that a guy thing?

SPEAKER_00 58:17

I don't think I don't think so. I think uh maybe.

SPEAKER_02 58:21

No, is that a guy thing that we don't need to do? We don't need that constant connection, but we can just go and start ripping on each other. I think women have a different component to their friendship.

SPEAKER_00 58:30

I feel like I do feel like there's an expectation with women that there's if you go too long without calling the other one, right? It's almost like, what did I do? And they start overthinking things about like, well, they must, I must have did something bad, or they did something bad, or whatever. Like they go to the what ifs and uh yeah, that there's probably a lot of feelings involved. We can really go like years. Like, I think even one of my friends back home, Ryan, like who we live a couple houses away from. I don't talk to that dude hardly at all throughout the year, but like when we go to Tucson, when I walk into his house and he pours me a rum and coke, and we go sit on his back patio, it's like I'm still living next door.

unknown 59:13

Right.

SPEAKER_00 59:14

There's not even like a it doesn't even take a long time like a mist, like man, it's been a really long time. We don't even say that, right? It's almost just like I just saw him yesterday, right? And I think I do think that is different with guys versus women. I think I don't know, we probably need some women to chime in, but like if you don't have a woman friend that talks to you in over a year plus, how does that make you feel? Like, could you go or do you like spend head energy thinking like, is there something wrong? I don't think there's anything wrong if a friend doesn't talk to me for a while.

SPEAKER_02 59:46

Right.

SPEAKER_00 59:47

I don't sit there and get worried.

SPEAKER_02 59:49

It'd be weird only if I reached out and was like, hey dude, what's up? And they're just like just blanked. Yeah, it was just blank.

SPEAKER_00 59:55

But if we just kind of naturally just quit talking for a year or two, I don't really think anything's wrong. Like you said, unless we like had a plan and it fell through and then we just never followed up, that'd be kind of weird, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:00:06

Um so that was going back, uh you talked about it earlier about kind of that system, and I would say I have probably just put people further down the totem pole as a result of that. When I reach out and I'm like, hey dude, can we get together next week? You know, let's hang out. And if they said I can't, without a follow-up of like, hey, what about the following week? Right, I kind of then just kind of raise an eyebrow and I wait some time and then hey, do you want to hang out next week or something like that? Same thing. I usually give it, I usually give it three, three like reach outs. Right. And if they don't respond back with like uh making it happen, then I just go, I'm not gonna delete their phone number, but I'm just I'm not trying anymore. Right. And it's funny with every person I've done that to, I've haven't talked to them since.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:03

Right. They don't, it's it's a I think it's a good way to assess it. And the optimist in me says, Don't take it personal. It it probably just means you're lower on their totem pole. Correct. Right? You're just not their top three to five.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:17

Yeah, and it's hard sometimes when Do you ever realize that you're you do that to somebody that you cherish? Yeah, fuck yeah, dude. Yeah, there's a guy that one of my one of my favorite human beings in existence. And he's awesome. The rock star of a friend, great human being. Yeah, and it just I feel so bad sometimes when I'm like, I'm when I realize how long it's been since we've hung out. And it's not that he doesn't reach out, he reaches out every once in a while, but I don't know if it's just he always reaches out at the most inopportune time, but I'm shitty to him more so than he deserves. And I'm like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna try to fix that because he's rad. Yeah. And it's like it makes me think it's like maybe on the other end, they're thinking that too, but they don't maybe think about it, but I keep going, like, man, I need to make sure I hang out.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:09

I think for me, the key is like I really try to I never ghost people. It's something I'm really good at. I do every once in a while, I'm delayed on a text, maybe 24 hours. Nah, maybe, but like I don't know anything about that, but I always and that's kind of rare though. Like it is. That's why I'm like, I almost reach out to your wife about it. It also depends on what the message is. Like, if it's if you were like, if it's something you needed from me the day of, right? 100% I will make an effort, even if it's like one in the morning when I get to it, I'll just fucking text your ass and I'll be like, right, because I know it was important. But like if it's something that's like has to do with like a couple days from now, and I'm like, okay, it is kind of late right now, just message them tomorrow. I'll do that. But I always respond. I have had people in my life that are maybe more of acquaintances, though, that just straight up fucking ghost you, where it's like after a week of not responding, it gets a little bit weird, right? And I'm like, we're none of us are that busy, right? And especially when like this day and age, when you see people on social and you're like, bro, you've been on Instagram, like you posted like 10 stories in two days, your phone's literally in your hand. Don't tell me you didn't see my message. Now you're just it's either disrespectful or it's is you're either ignoring me or it's just disrespectful because you're like, I'm not important to respond to.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:26

Right. And you're like, I have enough people in my life that I don't get to spend time with. I'd rather just I'll I'll focus on that.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:34

And and some people are genuinely bad about texting and whatnot, but I also don't think it's always a great excuse. Because I I have seen that I people are like, I'm just bad at texting. It's like, no, that's just fucking rude. All right, like you know, to never respond. Right, you know, um I don't know if I should say this or not, but say it. There is someone who I've done business with in the past, not even a not a current client or anything like that. Someone who I've like hired or worked with, and um it's like you reach out to them to do something that was agreed upon, and then they don't respond for like two days. And it's something of the like time is of the essence because it's for a client. And it's none of the people that work for me currently, it's just like a sporadic person that you work with, um, like a you know, and those kind of people, I'm like, I won't work with those people. Like after like two or three times of that, I really don't like that. And it goes back to the be like when I talk about friendship, like doing what you say you're going to do.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:44

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:44

If there's something that we agreed upon, and then all of a sudden I'm messaging you for that thing, and it goes two, three days, and you just fucking ghost me and don't answer. It's really weird to me.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:54

It's also when it's a reflection of you, and you're like, hey, this is important to me. This is about what I'm doing. I'm trying to, I don't want to say helping you out, but it's like this is mutually beneficial, but you're leaving me stranded. Like we used to have I used to run, uh I used to play in a lot of you know adult flag football leagues, as fucking lame as that sounds. But I enjoy I enjoyed it. But it was one of those things, like it was like, okay, if you no call, no show, you're done. You're done on the team and you're not getting your money back. Like, yeah, just give me a call. Just let me know an hour before game time that you're not gonna make it. So I don't have to adjust all the things on the fly. Like, just if you let me know, it's like, hey, dude, I'm not gonna be able to make it. Life, life happened. Like, cool. I can get somebody else to play your spot, and we can we can just say something so you can fix it, right? Right. But when I sh when it's like two minutes before game time, and I'm like, um, I don't know. And then you you keep texting them, and they're like, there's no answer on the other end, like it's again. Minor stuff, adult sports, but it's a character issue.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:03

And you're like, Yeah, but people that are willing to do it over something minor, though, they're gonna do it over something that's more important to that's what my mom told me about lying.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:12

It's like be careful for people that lie about little things because push comes a shove and it's a big thing, they're they're gonna lie because they're comfortable in that world.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:20

Yeah, yeah, it's really frustrating. So it just goes back to that same character thing of like just do what you say you're gonna do. Like there's been plenty of times, like most of the time I say, like, if I don't respond to someone text or whatever during the day, it's probably because I literally have a camera in my hand filming with a client. I'm or I'm on the phone in a meeting. Right. If I'm driving, it's 50-50. You know, I might respond. Um, but it's usually I ru I really can. And then, but sometimes I've been like on sets where I'm just like, I'll just tell someone I can't respond right now. I got your message, I'll respond later. Like, how hard is that? It took me two seconds, right? But again, like people that'll go literally like days ignoring a text for especially business related or something where it like affects like working with other people or an event where you're like going to like you're expected to be there. It's weird to me, it's wild that people will just but that's somewhat normal for some people.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:15

I don't know if I've ever responded to a text two days later. Usually, if I don't respond to it almost immediately, life gets busy and I don't respond to it. So I tried to respond pretty yeah, pretty fast because I'm not good enough to remember that a couple of days later. But yeah, it's not perfect, not perfect, I don't any mean.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:35

Yeah, your beer's looking a little bit empty there. Why don't you top that off? I I see you got another beer for us there, Dagle. What is that?

SPEAKER_02 1:07:41

Voodoo Ranger. It's not local, it's local, but it's delicious. And I love their art.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:49

Yeah, it looks good.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:50

Love the art of it.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:51

But I'm a few swigs behind you, and I'll I'll catch up.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:54

I'm very thirsty. It's hot out here.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:56

Um yeah, so this is all man, there's I mean, there's so much that can influence how easy we make friends. Um one of the one of the things I wanted to ask you was and I don't know, maybe this is maybe this will be controversial, maybe it is not, but like do you think it's wrong to distance yourself from people who no longer add value to your life?

SPEAKER_02 1:08:25

No. I mean I mean that okay, let me think about that a little bit more because ultimately I don't use I don't view people entirely to add value. Um though I do like philosophical conversations, which is kind of how this started. Um maybe we can get into that, um, which I thought would be fascinating on this episode. But ultimately it's just like some people are just fun to hang out with. Um, but I guess that would be a value. But I think when I look at somebody, I'm I am definitely not somebody who um thinks I could be taken advantage of. Like when so if somebody was like, hey, can I borrow money? Come borrow. I'm so generous to people until I think it's it's um they're taking advantage of me, and then it's like I'm super cut-offish. But I don't have a problem, and maybe that's a bad part. Like, I don't I don't have a problem cutting people off if I think their weight's trying to pull me down. Um, and I've I've talked to my my kids about that, and I think there is a there's probably some scientific study that talks about successful people and um people that that struggle in life and about their willingness to help people that are just constantly drowning. I think we kind of touched on it on their episode about homeless people. It's like some people are just always willing to just reach out and help, try to help, help, help, help, help. So much that they'll let the other person pull them down. And I'm I I just won't like I I I like people that push me to be better. I want to surround myself with people that um are intriguing, fascinating, um, challenge my um my thought process. Um, so being like I don't I can't see myself at this point hanging around with like a dumb person that is unwilling, it's it doesn't bring anything to the table. And I can learn something from somebody who's not successful, I can learn somebody who's struggling, but like woe is me people. I I just have a tough time with them. It's like, oh, this oh, I can't find friends, there's nobody likes me, there's people that you know, yeah, jobs suck, the everything like everything's just negative, negative, negative, dude. I cut those people off because I'm like, you get you're exhausting. Like I said, it's contagious, and um, I know I have the capability of falling into that and participating in that, but I don't want to. Like, my life's glorious, and um, even if it's not, isn't it better to just say it is? Like, and just think it is, and instead of just be having somebody point out all the things that are going wrong, it's like, oh well, think about all this, and you're like, Your life, my life. If I didn't know any better, like when I go camping and I don't have my cell phone service, and I wake up and I'm like, it's beautiful out here. The water's beautiful, the trees are beautiful, I'm with the people I care about and cherish the most. Life's fucking awesome. God's good. Like, why would I bring somebody in that tarnishes that and like, well, you know, like the Debbie Downer skit on Saturday Night Live, it's like womp, womp. Yeah, hilarious skit, by the way, could have done better, but the writing for that skit's got to be amazing. Yeah, um, but yeah, like just I'd rather be around positive people that if there is a problem, we're thinking and just brainstorming solutions, even if it's not our problem that we have any control over. I'd rather think about ways to attack a problem and to address it and a better way to approach things. Like that's that's way more inspiring to me. And it's like I'd rather spend my energy with people that are like that, like you. That's why we've been friends for so long.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:30

Yeah, yeah, I agree. I it's funny because I'm pretty sure some people would be offended if you were like that response. I agree. I think you should 100% be able to not devote time and energy into people who are not adding value to your life. It doesn't mean you're only in it for what people can give you. The reality is you only have so much time and energy and capacity to be around other people. So you really should be selective in who those people are, which is kind of what we just talked about. Like you are uh some of those who you are around. So if you are aware enough to realize some people are bringing you down, like why would you it would be it would be insane not to try to avoid that and go be around other people?

SPEAKER_02 1:13:18

I use this uh phrase a lot, and it's like there's so many people on this world on this earth that I cherish that I don't get to spend a lot of time with. Why would I spend my time with people that are energy vampires or positivity and vampires that just take all the fun out of things? And it's like, no, I'd rather just nope, not enough time for that. I'd rather be around people that push me to be a better person, um, challenge me, and bring shit to the table that I don't don't know. And I I I like uh I think it was Joe Rogan who had that conversation. It's like, I'd rather talk to somebody who believes the earl, the earth is flat. Like, give me that guy. I don't I don't want to talk to somebody who's like, hey, let's talk about how the the earth is round. It's like, yeah, okay, I we agree. Neat, but give me something different, something fascinating. Um, or somebody that's less like positive. Like, hey, I'm I mean, what was it four years ago? You and I were working, and I was just like, hey, do you know anything about the stock market? And you're like, no, and I'm like, neither do I. Let's download Weeble. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I was like, let's start investing in stocks and we'll talk about and we'll we'll show up, and we just pretend it was like, we'll show up to briefing with a newspaper, we'll talk about stocks.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:40

I haven't put a lot more money into it, but I don't think yours came back. It was doing good. Like, I only put in like 170 bucks. But there was like a couple stocks that I you know what's funny is Ben always asked me about it. He's always like, Dud, how's the weeble? I don't look at it so often that I forget what it's called, and I'm like, Oh, let me check. I checked it actually. It's funny that you brought that up because I checked it, I think, like a couple weeks ago, and one of the stocks was doing really well. Like, I put 170 bucks into this thing.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:06

Big spender, big investor, but it's at like 300 bucks.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:09

I'm like, bro, that's like doubled. That's good. Even though it's still low. But uh, I think you did a little bit more into like Tesla and stuff.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:20

Dude, I put so much money.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:21

Have you been uh have you been watching it?

SPEAKER_02 1:15:23

I dude, I'm I'm addicted to it. I I don't make drastic changes, but but it goes to the um I've been doing very, I've been doing very well. Thank you, economy. Um, but I view it like I tell people, I'm like, dude, I view it like the exact opposite of a casino. It's like just put money into it, keep putting money into it, and you'll get money versus a casino. Like the longer you stay there, you're gonna go broke. Um, but we did that, you know. Uh I've I've, you know, recently, you know, within the last year, started really exploring my faith and really like trying to grow in different avenues. And both of them I approached with the exact same manner was like, I know nothing. I know so little. I'm totally totally ignorant and I feel stupid and I don't like it. And I want to do something about it. So let's attack it. So I'm like, who knows anything about this? And I like approaching people with the humility that I don't know shit. Like, I for so much of my life, I think I I spent pretending I knew things that I had I was completely ignorant on, and it was really awkward in in law enforcement because like I didn't grow up like shooting guns or anything like that. So people would be talking about guns. I'm like, I yep, okay. I like I don't know anything about guns. Like I don't, and now I'm on the SWAT team and I'm like, I know a little bit more, but it's still kind of like a foreign con. Like, I just don't understand it. People can talk about the specs. Like, we have people on our team that just they can just spout stuff, and I'm like, don't even know what that is.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:56

An interest of yours, which it's funny is I was the same way. Like I grew up shooting BB guns, I shot up 22 a couple times.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:03

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:04

That was the extent, some slingshots and paintball guns. Yeah, that was the extent of my gun background. Right. And to this day, I'm not that interested in.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:12

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:13

I believe we all should have one. I believe we should be able to protect our families. And I believe whatever gun you do have, be really proficient in that gun. Yeah. Otherwise, I don't fucking care.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:24

I know tactics, I know a lot of things with that, I know angles. Right. Really good at that.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:28

I can be really good at my Glocks, I'm really good at an AR and a shotgun.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:32

But I remember uh a chief meeting with me and he was like to asking me about all this, all this equipment. I'm like, sir, with all due respect, Chief, just give me a gun that works, a radio that works, a computer that works, and I'll I'll handle the rest. I I'm a minimalist at heart. Like, I don't need all that stuff. Um, but to the point, is like I've started and from my my good buddy Russ, who really like inspired me. He just he just owns what he doesn't know. And he's like, I don't know about this. Tell me. And just people love talking about what they what they know. Case in point, I was dumbfounded when I started in my career, and my FTO was like, talk to this dude about drugs. And I was like, this dude's not gonna talk to me. I'm the police, like, he's not gonna talk to me about drugs, dude. They'll tell you everything about drugs, like how to make it, how to, how to how to ingest it, how they do it, and the different tricks. What and you're like, I ought to kept that shit to myself. But they people love to talk what they what they know about. You get me talking about football, talk all day. You're like, I don't care, but I'll talk about it forever if if the opportunity presents itself. And so it is fascinating. And so I've just tried, I'm still not great at it because again, I care too much about what other people think, and I don't want to be, I don't want to come across as stupid or ignorant to it, but I've started to just admit it right out of the bat, like, I don't know about this. It's liberal you tell me, and to have people like, I don't know anything about stocks, and then you know, year ago, and again, it's like I know the stories of the Bible, but I don't, I never read it, and so I was like, I'm gonna read it, I'm gonna read the Bible and I'm gonna learn about this. And I did. And do I know I'm still in the infant stages of that, but it's still pushing myself to do things. I want to surround it, I want to surround myself with people who know more about it, that I can. And one of my buddies from high school, we actually got together last week just to talk about the Bible because we got together, like a random group of four of us, and I told him that I was exploring my faith, and he was like, Me too. And then he's like, We should get together and talk about it. I'm like, right, fuck out. Let's do it. It's a beautiful thing, it's good. And then we started talking about it, and we're both like, we don't know shit, but this is what we do think, and then we're just quoting things, and we're like, we didn't have Bibles with us, we had beers with us, but it was fun just talking about it, and it was just like it was it was good.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:13

It's so much more liberating to have the position of you don't know anything, right? And because there are people who know a lot, and there's a lot of people who don't, but the best thing is like self-knowledge. I think that was the whole annoying thing with uh Socrates is he was famous for just always asking people like what they know, but then how do they know that? Right, and just constantly asking them like, but why? Like, how do you like how did you come to that realization? And what I find is so many people, even myself looking back when I really started to study, study um, you know, that like how we learn things and the philosophy behind it, and I was like, So much of what we know is because people just told us. Whereas, how many things do you know from personal experience? Like an easy example is like pain, right? Someone could tell you, oh, if you touch that, that hurts.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:12

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:13

Will that ever be the same as if you touched a hot stove and you burned the fuck out of your hand like I did when I was four years old, and I got a huge blister on my hand, and I remember two days later I was skateboarding and I crashed at the apartment complex and smashed it open. That was self-knowledge, right? Right. Learning that through real-world personal experience was a better teacher and truly helped me understand what it meant to don't touch that because it hurts, than someone just saying, don't touch that. That's hot. But so many people operate in this world off of everything that they do, off someone who told them don't touch that. How many of you challenged that? How many people challenge what they know and actually have learned it from their own experience? This could be a whole different topic, but we talk about like racism and victimhood and all these things. How many people live their lives under the assumption of, well, so-and-so said that's what happens, and I just never thought to challenge it and see something different.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:18

100%. I think it's also great to think about as a parent when you're raising a young child, what are you downloading into their their brains? Right. And I again a comedian talks about like I don't want to fuck my kids up, like I don't impart all my dumb shit, all my trauma into them. Um but yeah, I think it's a great, a great thing to um to contemplate because how many times do we prevent our kids from making the mistake? And I think um instead of just letting them make the mistake and learning firsthand what the mistake has to do.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:58

Yeah, and it's tough to do, especially as a parent, but I really think it's so important.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:04

I I think I'm saying they should burn their hands and you shouldn't be like, hey, don't touch that. But something like that. And don't run them, don't run with knives or stuff.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:10

Don't let them agree hurt. But there's so many things in life that I think there's a way to teach people. And I think people who are good teachers and instructors and professors, they at some point in your career, if you teach long enough, you learn this, you come to this realization that the best way to be a teacher is to let people learn it for themselves. Guide them, of course, tell them some options, but you really have to let them self-learn. Right. Um, and like for our kids, I think that we talk about politics, for example. I don't ever tell my kids which way I lean, what my I I always like to present scenarios, right? I press I present scenarios to them and I say, What do you think? And I always tell them when you hear things, even if you hear me and mom give our opinion on things, don't be afraid to question or ask us. And sometimes it's uncomfortable. It's forced me to become better and more articulate at explaining why I believe what I believe. And I'm okay with that. I'm okay getting uncomfortable and saying, like, even like with the Bible stuff, right? Like, I've had my kids ask me things about faith, and I'm like, shit, I really I get disappointed sometimes that I don't have a better answer. Oh, it makes you feel it's real humbling and you're make it up and be like, this is what I think about it because you're no, I don't want to make it up, and what it does is it exposes that maybe that's an area that I really haven't given deep thought about. And let's capitalize on that. Let me think about that and I'll give you an answer. But like sometimes that happens, and that's okay. But I think some people unfortunately are kind of like what you were you know earlier when you said you'd rather just kind of pretend you know things or just kind of gloss over them, which is fine, but it is harmful to you yourself because then you're not really you're robbing yourself of the opportunity to learn and grow.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:58

It's much more comfortable instead of sitting there in your own ignorance to just admit it, be like, I don't know shit. Please tell me going to go into an auto-body shop. Not that you want to sell me you don't know anything, but it's like I don't know anything about cars. Yeah. Okay, like I'm not gonna pretend I do. I don't. Right. Um, I know a lot about a lot of things, a lot of things, but that's not one of them. You know, thanks, dad. You didn't teach me that. I again, that's fine. Um, but I think it's just it's more comfortable to just operate what you don't know. But then ask people that do know. Like my oldest is his friend group is awesome. Like, it's so funny to listen to them because early on in his life, he was really he played on this team, and the kid, a lot of the kids on the team were friends, and they would rip on each other the way my friends and I, and he would get really uncomfortable. And he was like, Dad, I don't want to make a mistake around, they're gonna make fun of me. I'm like, I don't think they will. Maybe they will, but if they do, that's because they love you because I can tell by the way they operate. But he was uncomfortable, but now his friends are getting into that make fun of everybody for all the things, and it's the appropriate amount of inappropriateness, but they just rip on each other the whole time. Um, but they have this thing where they their arguments end with who has the most engines. And I don't get what that means. The most engines? Yeah, they're like, bro, you only have two engines because like they're into cars, they're into motors, they're into all these different things. Like, bro, shut up. Your opinion doesn't matter. You only have one engine.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:41

You're a single cylinder, I'm an eight-cylinder.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:43

Hey, and for whatever reason, they find that to be the the the the the Trump all of all arguments, like bro, you only your opinion doesn't even matter. You only have one engine. Like, and it's like, what does that even mean? But he doesn't know anything about cars because I couldn't teach him anything about cars, but he's with them learning about cars, and he goes over to their houses and they work on cars, and he's like, I'm like, perfect. You're better now because of you admitting your ignorance and then trying to adjust it with your friends, bringing it back to the topic of the day. It's like your friends can help guide you, and I don't have a um a friend that is like so knowledgeable of like the gospel that I could go to by hey dude, what's your but I would rather do that than go to like a mega church and listen to one person. I'd rather get in a group of four and talk about all of our stupid shit and be like, what do you know? What do you know? What do you know? Because it's more personal, more intimate.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:49

Well, you learn more from it because you're getting people's raw stories and and opinions and thoughts, and you're really kind of learning together. And the nice thing is there's so much information out there, like you can find Find clarifying information for what you don't know. What you can't find is like how to connect it to your own personal situation as easily. But that happens when you discuss real stories with those around you. And I think that's like the power of like small um Bible study groups and stuff like that, is it is more intimate, and you're getting to hear how other people have navigated challenges and using the lessons from the Bible. And I think that's the power in that, which is really good. And I commend you for doing that. I think it's awesome. I think um I think there's like this belief amongst some people in society that if you're Christian, you think you know everything or you think you're better.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:41

You're judgy.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:42

But I I always want to push back on that and say, like, really, the to be a Christian means you are admitting that you are not perfect. You're not using it as an excuse either. You're saying I'm not perfect, I don't know everything, I do fuck up, I do sin. There's a lot of things I can do better, but the difference is like I'm owning that. I'm trying, and I'm on a journey striving towards a goal of being something better. I know that I will never be perfect, but I'm striving for it. Versus being passive and just being like, I'm fine, I'm just gonna be a good person, whatever that means. Right. You know, it's it's not being judgy, it's it's the opposite. Now, does that mean there are Christians out there that don't make people feel bad or like they're better? Yeah, of course. But don't blame Christianity, blame those people for not being great people, right? Which that's part of being Christian, is not being a great person. You know, we're not all perfect, and there's obviously bad examples of that. I just think like I teach my kids, I'm like there. I mean, there was a situation with uh my daughter not too long ago where a girl who she's friends with said something um disparaging towards like the belief of faith and stuff like that in God, and she got really mad at it and almost wanted to like say something bad. Yeah, she wanted to say something like more negative back. Instead, I was like, that's an opportunity to show what it means to be a Christian, like show some kindness and grace and be like, huh, or ask questions like why do you think that way? Which is hard to do as a kid, right? I get, but like take that as an opportunity, like when someone says something bad about your faith or Christianity, don't get angry. Like take that as an opportunity to learn about them and see why they believe what they believe. And maybe if you do that, you'll they'll be open to be like, well, can you tell me something more or different?

SPEAKER_04 1:30:39

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:40

And there's an opportunity to share the gospel and share your faith and how you believe. And but I think some Christians, not because they're Christian, because they're people, right? They're quick to just defend and get angry, right? Which is easy to do because that it's an emotional response, it's the easiest thing we can do.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:56

But you know, right, and you talked about that when you know starting this this podcast, and you know, like thus far, we probably can admit that we maybe haven't accomplished our goal by getting people in here who have a complete opposite belief system that we do, but it was we want people with different belief systems and not to argue with them, but to simply investigate like how did what what makes you think that? Right. What what experiences do you have in your life that's led you to those conclusions? And with all humility and just being like, I I I haven't walked in your shoes, but you believe this passionately and you want to come to the the the set and discuss it. Um and I think that's kind of the same the same concept. It's like, but do we keep going back to the original topic? Is do we keep friends who have super opposing views in some categories? Like, I think some people, you know, if they're polite completely divided politically, there's like a you're a monster or you're an idiot kind of a thing, and it's like, I don't want to hang around with an idiot, and then I don't want to hang with an evil person. And you're like, well, we can get along in all other components because if we were camping and we have a beautiful wilderness and we're just out there, no cell phone service, we pretty much agree on most of the same things. Yeah, but politically, there's a lot of passion in it. Same thing with religion, same thing with a lot of different things. So um, you know, we are, you know, the viewers out there, we're we're looking for people that have significantly opposing views to us, yeah. That we just want to hear their mindset, and again, it's just about growing. And I think um, as friends, I think we like to hang around the people that share more ideas than oppose because I have a it's funny. My I shouted him out, I think, on the first episode, one of my good buddies that I grew up with. We argue about everything, and my wife was like, How can you guys be friends? All I hear you do is argue, and we're like, It's because we're both idiots, it doesn't matter, right? But we just have different philosophies on damn near everything, and he's very polarizing. And I'm like, Nope, I'm gonna combat you, and we have different thought processes, but it's still probably one of those relationships that over the years since high school has lowered on the totem pole. But we get together because we our commonalities are we love the NFL draft, we love football, and we love talking like combat sports, whether it's boxing or MMA, and we just like talking about life, and usually I'm like, You're an idiot, and he's like, I'm an idiot, and I don't know what we're talking about, but we can chat about it and it's all love.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:55

So, yeah, well, it's that element of humility that makes it work, and I think that goes to the same point of even this podcast. If we were to get people on the show, which we want to do, is that have polar opposite opinions, as long as there's humility, like we're all good. You know, we can have open discussions, but you just you have to be willing to listen for long enough and not listen just so you can get your response in.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:22

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:23

Like I digest and ingest the like I always think I want to be I want to be swayed in what I believe. Right. That's my approach. I want to believe differently. But it's your job or other people's jobs to articulate it in a reasonable way that will make me believe it. And I think as long as you approach most things in life, like please sway my opinion. I'm coming at it with an open mind. Like I don't know any different. Obviously, this is what I believe. If you can make sense of it that you know, leads me to believe something different, then awesome.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:03

And it's hard to do that when their opinion usually comes from their two eyes, and you're like, my opinion comes from my two eyes, and I've seen X, Y, and Z, and I have countless examples of this, and they're like, I have countless examples of this. You're like, Okay, we're not gonna change it.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:21

That's where that personal knowledge becomes so important, and not just not just what was told to me, right? That's that's the disconnect for me when I get into little discussions, debates, arguments with people with opposing views is once their position comes from somebody else. If they're too much emotion, or this is what other people have seen, experienced. Like once you start doing this whole third party thing, I just I can't, what do I do? Because I can't tell you they didn't, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:35:54

But I'm just like, that's not I don't buy it, especially especially because like we come from a law enforcement right background where it's like people will tell us all the things that law enforcement isn't it's not like I got I work in the profession, I kind of know what what transpires in the profession, and you from outside the perspective kind of tells me how it works, and you're like, and my buddy that I was talking about, we got into it one time because he's like, you know, it's like this, and I'm like, I've been doing this for 15 years, you've been doing it none, but tell me how it is. I know how it is, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:36:30

You need to listen to me and ask with humility instead of telling me how law enforcement is, you know, and it's not to mean that somebody doesn't have a singular valid experience, like people are like, you know, cops are racist or dickheads or whatever. I I can totally fathom that there are some guys out there that are racist or are dickheads, or just not good at their job, right? Right, like most people, but I think it gets embellished a lot, you know. And so that's where you know, when I have a debate with somebody, if they start leading down the line of like, other people have told me this, or why why does so and so experience this? I'm like, where are you getting this information from? And it's just like stories, like that. How do you debate that then? And I try not to be in that position myself. I try to always go from personal knowledge. Like, hey, I touched that hot stove before it fucking hurt. This is what it did. So I know it. It's not because somebody told me, you know, why do I think most cops are good? Well, because I've been a cop for 15 years, I've worked with a lot of different departments, I've traveled the country, I've met a lot of people, and the overwhelming majority of people were good, solid people who do the right thing. That is my actual experience. I'm not saying that there's ever bad people, but it's so or a mistake made or whatever. Right. Sometimes people just make mistakes or whatever, but it's like it's so small. Like, I don't think to blanket broad stroke cops are racist or cops are this or whatever, like you instantly lose credibility when you start making these broad stroke statements. Doesn't matter what side you're on. I see people do it on the left and the right, and um, it makes it difficult. And that challenges friendships, obviously.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:15

If you don't have a friend who is open-minded and um willing to articulate how they feel and be challenged a little bit, and it's hard to be friends with people like that, or maybe you just avoid it altogether, which is flips off and you're like, you believe this, this, this, I know this about you. Okay, we're not gonna touch that conversation. But then is it a genuine friendship? If you're like, okay, I can talk to them about X, Y, and Z, but I can't talk to them about A, B, and C because they're gonna become unhinged and bring the ugly version of them that I'm not I don't like, and then it's like Yeah, it just may not be as fulfilling of a friendship than like I think even with relationships.

SPEAKER_00 1:38:56

But if there's topics that you just have to avoid, I mean it's a choice, right? Like maybe you like someone enough, you know, majority of things you like about them, it's really not that big of a deal to avoid like one or two things. So it really just comes down to like how much is it though? Right, you know. Um like I think there's friends, I don't know. Like, I don't see myself being friends with a lot of people who are like extreme opposite. Right. Like you said earlier, it's it's easier to be friends with. It's not that you don't you can't find any commonalities, but it is easier to be friends with people who you mostly agree with because you're not always battling. Like you you said with your friend that you you know you were good friends, but when you are together, you're always battling each other, like right, which you may be in good spirit when you do it, but it's energy that you kind of have to like battle, and you'd rather be talking about other things.

SPEAKER_02 1:39:48

Right now, our battles are stupid, right? Like we talk about who the Niners should draft, and he's like, We should get a linebacker. I'm like, bro, you're fucking crazy. We need a wider all the it's stupid, it's superficial, but it's constant.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:01

But if it's constantly that's draining, though, then you leave that day of spending time together, like right, that's kind of exhausting. You could just sit back and enjoy someone I agree with, which is a thing.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:11

Right now, this is gonna sound uh set up, and it is um because I'm not a philosopher, but I read this one time in a book or on the internet. Uh it talked about uh Marcus Aurelius, who discusses and said that people come into our lives for a season, and it doesn't have to last forever to be considered a success. What are your thoughts on that?

SPEAKER_00 1:40:36

I like it, I agree with it. Um when I think back to my own life and all the people that have been a part of it, there's a lot of people that have come and gone. There's a lot of people that have only been a part of my life for a short time, good and bad. And maybe this is a good perspective. And I was thinking about this one time. When I really, really think about it, most people in your life they're really only prominent in your life for a few years. Maybe four or five years. Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:41:10

If you think about it, besides kids and spouses, best friends.

SPEAKER_00 1:41:12

No, I'm not talking about your immediate family, immediate family, um, maybe like best of best friends, but I think there's only maybe like four to five people in your life every five years that are really prominent. And then seasons change. Think about even coworkers, right? You start a job. Think about all the coworkers you've ever worked with. How many of them? I'm not just saying in your life, how many of them were prominent, took energy of your life for more than five years? Not very many, because they retire, they leave, they go to a different apartment, they go to a different job, whatever.

SPEAKER_02 1:41:51

Medically retire.

SPEAKER_00 1:41:52

Medically retire. But I'm still in your life. Still prominently in your life right now.

SPEAKER_02 1:41:57

Based on your choice of like based on this podcast. Like, I I love, and again, I want to get into that because that story means a lot to me.

SPEAKER_00 1:42:04

It's an intentionality, but like it's good and bad. Like it it can be good if people in your life are really fucking driving you crazy and you hate your coworkers, you hate people around you, you could be like, you know what? Chances are within five years they will I will never be a part of anything in their life. And it can be sad too, because some people who are really prominent in your life and who've been really impactful and you've shared some really good moments and had some really good opportunities with, they may not be in your life after maybe five years. Right. And to me, when I think about it, that's really held true. Now, again, there's a couple people like going back to my friend Tori, right? He's been a friend for 38 years of my life. Well, not 38, I guess we met when we were like six or seven, so 32 years or whatever. Um he hasn't been prominent in my life though, all that time. Right. There are seasons, right? And for good or bad. And so a lot of people in your life are only gonna be there for a short time. Appreciate it, value it, cherish it, learn every learn everything that you can from the the relationships that you get. Always leave on good terms if you can. Um but be okay that some people just fade out of your life. Because what I can also tell you is every person who has ever left, not left my life like I'm leaving you, but like who's any person who has ever kind of drifted away, they've always been replaced by someone new every time. Right. And I think of people who are in my life right now in this moment. I was talking to my wife the other day, and I'm like, there's a lot of people, my energy and my thoughts, and just the things that I did on a day-to-day was consumed by a lot of my law enforcement career. I could say the people who are on my team, the you know, the sergeants I worked with, or whoever they were prominent in my life, and since retiring, it has made room for new people to take those positions for a much better way. Not necessarily better as in the other people were bad, it's just a shedding of a season, shedding of you know, whatever. And it's always gotten better though. So, like that statement from Marcus Aurelius, I think is 100% true. Like, some people are only gonna be in your life for a short time. But we need to cherish it and just I know it could be sad looking back, like, man, I really like that person. I don't know why we drifted apart. And I think some people probably faced that. I have like there's been people where I'm like, I felt like the friendship was going really good in a certain direction, and I had a lot of optimism, and like they took a lot of my mind, and I thought about them a lot, and all of a sudden it went a different direction, and for whatever reason, and you feel sad for a little bit, like you're kind of like fuck, I want to spend more time with that person. Not necessarily they don't, but they're just going a different direction. But what always happens is someone new comes into your life, and they get into the top five, they get into the top five and they're prominent, and you just you just have to appreciate the present and who is showing up for you in that season of life, and just trust like there's a reason some people are gone.

SPEAKER_02 1:45:25

Right. About what when you were when you mentioned that, I thought about like I wonder any of the listeners if you look back to who was in your your wedding party, like who are your groomsmen, who are your bridesmaids, and however long ago that was, and it's like how many of those people do you still have that tight of a connection with? Because I'm like, I'm like, uh mine okay, not great, but if I like if Janelle and I were like, hey, we're gonna renew our vows and we wanted to redo a wedding, not yeah, I'd be like, who would be my groomsman?

SPEAKER_00 1:46:06

They might be different, it'd probably be different, but yeah, it's it's it is different, and again, seasons change for better or for worse, and like I think it's always for better. Very rare has someone left my life, and I'm like five years down the road, I'm like, fuck, I still really want that person back in my life, right? It's never happened. I don't think it's ever happened.

SPEAKER_02 1:46:25

If you did, you'd have made the furtive effort to make sure that they maintained it, and it was maybe it's uh accurate or on on point, where it was like the buddy I'm talking about that we argued maybe like 10 years ago, we were just having this phone conversation. It was like yeah, it was almost like a breakup over the phone, it was weird, it was just like we were both like, You're awesome, love you, dude, but like um we're just we're apart now, yeah. And it was kind of like awesome and beautiful, but like it was like this kind of soft and flaccid, yeah. But you're making room for like we're just like something new, we're just you're moving on with your life, I'm moving on with my life, and I hope all the best. Like, just I wish you nothing but success. And really, the only time we text each other is during 49er games when we're like, this is dog shit, you this sucks, what the fuck? And it was just like, but I'm like, I know Sundays I'm chatting with Guillermo, we're you're just gonna be sending multiple text messages to each other about the Niners, and that's cool though.

SPEAKER_00 1:47:30

It's cool that you can still let people party.

SPEAKER_02 1:47:32

We watch the draft, like like we watch the draft together, or we we communicate, and as soon as the draft pick comes in, it's like thoughts, like and we usually are in lockstep with that, but usually it's like yeah, but that those are our things, and it's like cool. What season do you have? Football season, he and I are are lockstep during football season, but he still hasn't paid me my fantasy football winnings. There's a little bit of uh come on, man. I won the league, I won the league, give him my money. Yeah, yeah, maybe that's why he's ghosting me now.

SPEAKER_00 1:48:08

Maybe, maybe. Come on, come on, Guillermo.

SPEAKER_02 1:48:10

Guillermo, pay up, pay the man. I won. Pay the man, keeper league, rekindle the friendship. Been like six years in that league, took over a trash roster, finally won.

SPEAKER_00 1:48:20

It's tough. Yeah, but yeah, no, I mean people come and go, and that's that's cool, it's fine. And that's and segue segue into it.

SPEAKER_02 1:48:30

It's like sometimes you maintain friendships through stupid shit. Flag football, fantasy football, work, whatever it is, podcast. And it's just like, yeah, I'm gonna keep I'm gonna keep going into that because that's what keeps us connected. And right, uh, I keep referencing the story, and so tell me if it's as inaccurate, but this is how my brain um led to this podcast was uh you started this, like this company, your um kind of social media, your uh media company uh while you were working, and you were like, hey, let's do a podcast. And I'm like, I don't know. I could go bad, being front and center. I'm not really sure. That's not really my jam. And then when you medically retired, you presented it in such a way you were like, hey, dude, like I don't want to like stop being friends out of proximity. Like you're gonna be busy doing all your things with coaching and work, and I'm gonna be trying to build my business. If we do this podcast together, at least we'll have the opportunity to hang out once a week. We'll drink a beer and we'll just chat like we normally do when we were working or when we would just go out and grab a beer or when we were coaching together. And I was like, fuck yeah, I'm all about that. Like, let's do these. Like, nobody watches it. That's fine. That's fine. We'll just, but it gives us an opportunity to hang out. And I was like, I'm all in. So thank you for doing that because I've charged it.

SPEAKER_00 1:50:04

Yeah, and I meant it. And like I there was even a moment I was like, well, fuck. I think I said it to you like one of our second or maybe our second episode when we were watching the beer mugs. I thought about it and I was like, fuck, I really hope because I value our friendship. And I'm like, I really hope he didn't think I need him to do this podcast with me to maintain our relationship. Right. Because I I am confident we still would have maintained it otherwise with all the things that we have that we um participate in, you know, with coaching and our kids and just doing what we do. But I think it is a good testament to and a good show of like sometimes you do have to be intentional, right? Because it would have been really easy for us to drift apart, right? Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:50:47

It could have been a every six months, but like, hey man, I haven't talked to you in a while. How's the family doing? Good, man. How's your family doing? Awesome.

SPEAKER_00 1:50:53

Like generic conversations. And because we finished up the last football season, we're not really coaching anymore for our kids because they're going to high school. It's like, what else would what else would have brought us together activity-wise? Right. Again, I'm 100% confident we still would have like went hiking or had beers and did stuff, but well, our wives are great friends. Our wives are great friends now, and so I think we would be good, but like I still see it as an effort. Like, we still need to like take the time to think of ways to be around the people that we cherish and that we value and we want to be around because it is easy. I think some people just get lazy and their friends.

SPEAKER_02 1:51:36

It's easy to just stay at home and just be like, okay, well, I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do this. And little do you know, 20, 30 years have gone by and you haven't accomplished the things. And so I I appreciate you, and I I really do greatly thank you for doing this. It's been rad. I enjoyed doing it. It feels like it's a like it's not a farewell. This why does it feel like a farewell?

SPEAKER_00 1:51:59

I mean, hey, it's a topic of friendship, and we're just being real here and raw, and like this is an element of this is a great scenario of like how easily we met through work, right? And we developed a friendship. We went from being acquaintances to friends to really like this dude. I want to hang out with him more, and I'm wanting my I want our wives to hang out together, I want our kids to hang out together, want to do things. And this is a prime example of how that could have gone because it started from work. Once you remove that element with me retiring, it could have easily been like, well, we just don't have that in common anymore. Fortunately, we developed enough things in common that we're like, hey, we already like talking, we like having discussions. Why not turn it into a podcast? I have a media company, we don't have to pay other people to film and edit it. We can do it. And it's a good reason to hang out.

SPEAKER_02 1:52:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:52:50

You know, and then if people watch it, cool. If not, fuck you guys.

SPEAKER_02 1:52:54

Yeah, we'll just hang out. We'll just hang out. We're still winning.

SPEAKER_00 1:52:57

We're winning whether you guys watch us or not. Um, but we do appreciate you guys who do watch us, who listen to us. Uh, hopefully you get some value from it because uh that's why we record it, that's why we hit record. And I spend a bunch of time editing all this for you guys.

SPEAKER_02 1:53:11

So I do nothing, I show up with beer and talk.

SPEAKER_00 1:53:14

But I couldn't still couldn't do it without you. Still need the beer, and I need someone, and I'd be talking to myself. And I don't think the show would be as good as if I was just rambling to myself. So appreciate that. Yeah, appreciate you. Well, I think we've exhausted uh talking for a little over two hours about friendship.

SPEAKER_02 1:53:32

You're my best friend.

SPEAKER_00 1:53:34

Do you think go best friend? Go best friend. Oh man. All right, well, soft. Yeah, love to hear your uh thoughts. I know you guys never fucking talk to us. I don't know why. You guys need to comment more on our YouTube, on our Instagram, comment more.

SPEAKER_02 1:53:50

Let's just start saying some off the wall shit to see how they'll respond and maybe get mad.

SPEAKER_00 1:53:55

Do you think anybody makes it this far? Do you think anybody's listening to us right now?

SPEAKER_02 1:54:00

Yeah, my wife only.

SPEAKER_00 1:54:01

Okay, your wife, my wife, this is going to be a test right now. We we are at what 11 episodes deep? 11 episodes deep. If any of you are hearing what I'm saying right now and you comment, you can't be our family or direct friends. If you don't know us personally, direct a friend.

SPEAKER_02 1:54:23

What's the direct friend?

SPEAKER_00 1:54:23

Direct direct friend, like fucking we work with you, we see you on a regular basis.

SPEAKER_02 1:54:28

Bro, they're in our circle. I know that's one of the hardest people to get to watch. Those are the hardest people to get to watch because they know our dumb shit.

SPEAKER_00 1:54:35

Maybe. Okay. I'll just say this. If you see what I'm saying right now, you listen to this, I will send you a hundred dollar gift card. If you comment, you have to comment that you heard this, and you have to comment one great takeaway from this episode. I will give you a hundred dollar gift card.

SPEAKER_02 1:54:52

Dude, you're crazy.

SPEAKER_00 1:54:53

I don't care.

SPEAKER_02 1:54:53

Don't do that.

SPEAKER_00 1:54:54

No one's gonna fucking no one's gonna see it. And if they do, they deserve, they deserve you're gonna you're they deserve they deserve dinner.

SPEAKER_02 1:55:02

No, they're gonna they're gonna share it on social media.

SPEAKER_00 1:55:04

The first person to comment.

SPEAKER_02 1:55:06

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:55:06

First person to comment that they made it this far in the episode. You can't be my direct family member though, because I know a few people who will be like, oh, I I saw it. You gotta be someone who uh is just listening to our podcast. I will buy you dinner, hundred bucks gift card on me. Comment that you saw this and give me a great takeaway from the episode. We really appreciate you guys. This was another episode of Broken Perspective. Thank you for watching. See you on the next one. See ya.