Financing Commercial Real Estate in Today’s Market w/ Ken Smith

Most commercial real estate deals look fine in a spreadsheet right up until a lender starts underwriting. That’s where the real story comes out: your cash flow, your leases, your tax returns, and whether you can handle a curveball when rates move or a tenant wobbles.

We sit down with Ken from Fidelity Bank to talk through how a commercial banker views risk and what actually drives a “yes” or “no” on a loan. We get specific about the post-COVID market, where interest rates have normalized and refinancing can get tight for projects that were structured in 2020 to 2022. Ken explains why your personal financial statement matters so much, what liquidity signals strength, and how banks look at amortization, term, and DSCR when they size a deal.

We also dig into the topics borrowers tend to avoid: tax returns, CPA strategy, and how showing losses can limit your ability to borrow and even hurt the eventual sale of your business. From there, we get practical about lease risk, matching loan terms to remaining lease terms, and why tenant strength is central to underwriting for investment property. Finally, Ken breaks down SBA lending in plain English, including SBA 504 vs SBA 7A, why 504 can be a game-changer for owner-occupied commercial real estate, and what to expect on documentation and timing.

If you want to buy, build, refinance, or invest with confidence, subscribe, share this with a business owner friend, and leave a review with your biggest financing question.

Transcript

Welcome To Commercial Unlocked

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to Commercial Unlocked, the podcast where we break down commercial real estate and unlock how it actually works. I'm Sam Klein, a commercial real estate broker here in the Carolinas. Each episode, we'll talk through deals, markets, and decisions that shape commercial real estate from leasing and development to investing and community growth. You'll hear from business owners, city leaders, developers, and people on the ground doing the work. Because I think commercial real estate isn't just about the buildings, it's about the people. Whether you're a business owner, investor, or just trying to understand how commercial real estate really works, you are in the right place. Now let's get into it. All right, Ken, first of all, thank you very much for taking the time out of your busy schedule to come hang out and talk with me. Um we like to say the deal doesn't die at closing, it uh it dies at underwriting. Definitely dies in underwriting. That happens quite often, actually. So before we go before we delve into that, let me talk a little bit about you know our relationship, our friendship. We got introduced um by mutual friend Britt Goodrich and got to know each other. You literally, I helped negotiate your lease in Belmont. And for a period of time, you worked around the corner from me. You worked for Fidelity Bank. Fidelity, um, I want to say is in three states, but exists in North Carolina and is still privately owned, which makes it um really honestly an easier bank to navigate. I have um all of my business accounts and uh even a property that I own that I have some leverage on through Fidelity, and it's always been well, Dawn is wonderful. She um always has hidden chocolate in her desk and helps to soothe me when I have to pay my taxes. But uh so Fidelity is is is really like you know, has enough muscle to get a deal done, but feels like your hometown bank. And I loved working around the corner from you because I'm kind of a shoot first, ask questions later, and I'd have someone in my office and I'd be knocking on your door to to run scenarios to try to get a deal done. Um so you've been in the business for quite a while, you've been with Fidelity for a while. Tell me a little bit about you know why Fidelity and and then also why do you love banking? Why have you stuck with it for so long?

SPEAKER_01 2:13

Uh Fidelity Bank is uh it's been a it's been a great bank to work for. Uh uh through about a 115-year-old bank. Like I said, um you were saying family-owned, uh the same management group. My my direct boss, uh David Royal, he's been with the bank 55 years, and that pretty much tells you a lot about a company when they can retain somebody that long and have him there. Um he's been a great resource, but uh, but as a bank, just very strong in the sense that we can work with pretty much any type of loan request. There's not really a box that we're always saying we won't look at this, we won't look at that. If if you're a client or we've we're getting to know you and we're working with you in that business, it just it just has that feel of a bank that lets us do a lot of different things without being just segmented into one type of real estate or one type of company. Um I've been in banking now, uh looking at it 29 years. Uh almost 16 of those years have been has been with Fidelity Bank. Um twenty-eight of those years has all been in commercial banking. So I've been just working with commercial clients for a very, very long time in the Gaston County market. And I handle a lot outside in Charlotte area, um, and in pretty much any area. We're we're in uh North Carolina primarily. Uh we've moved into South Carolina, and we've got a couple in Virginia right now. So it's uh a growing bank. We're looking to expand into other markets, and they're they're doing very well.

SPEAKER_00 3:46

What what is it about commercial that has um maybe I'm assuming had more of an appeal for you in your career?

SPEAKER_01 3:52

I think the part I enjoy is just it's it when you're working with a client and you see that opportunity for them to grow and build their assets and continue developing, and it's it's just interesting to see how every business makes their dollar. Everybody makes a dollar somehow, and seeing how they do it and what their their niche is and and just the things that they've gone through and the challenges they've had, and then us finding out how we can help, you know, handle some of those challenges. Maybe we can make it a little bit easier, maybe we can find that that growth opportunity they're looking for. So it's that's the part I enjoy about it. It's a little it's a lot different than consumer lending. Um consumer lending has very strict guidelines around everything. And on the commercial side, you can you can look at things from a different angle sometimes. Uh you can you can uh try to structure things to help get it done and find just find those different avenues. That's what I like. It's just a it's a very interesting side of banking to me.

Rates Shift The 2024 Playbook

SPEAKER_00 4:52

All right. So COVID hits, um, we have a housing shortage, the interest rate is two and three quarters, the entire market goes crazy. And the negative part is about any deal on earth will pencil, so prices obviously skyrocket. Where are we at now to kind of 2024 to 2026? The past couple of years, interest rates have come back up to a more normal level. You know, what kind of game are we playing now when it comes to financing?

SPEAKER_01 5:17

It is different. Um you find we're you'll see that there's a lot of things that were structured in 2020, 2022 or so that worked on paper at that time. And now with interest rate changes, as those loans are maturing, uh, there's a little bit more of a challenge for uh for businesses to need to renegotiate leases, they're gonna have an increased cost uh because interest rates are up. And uh one of the things that I've liked about what uh Fidelity Bank has done is that rates are at this level and the client was at a lower level during that part of the time, they're trying to meet somewhere in the middle to make it uh a little bit easier on the client without upping their interest rate significantly. And uh it just there's different ways you're gonna have to look at things um during this time, and and and it is an increased cost. There's a lot more, uh it's a lot harder to make it work on some some credit structures. But Fidelity Bank has done very well with working with our clients to make sure things are flowing and that they can find a way to continue being successful.

How Banks Really Underwrite Deals

SPEAKER_00 6:22

I love that. Talk to me about how a bank thinks. I mean cash flow, collateral, buyer strength, we're entering a deal or we're talking to a new client. What does a bank think like? What do they think about?

SPEAKER_01 6:38

I think one of the things that is is most important and most people miss out on it is the individual, the owner. Uh how you have handled your personal finances and structured things and things that you've generated and retained assets, that's extremely important. And every bank gives a client a personal financial statement to complete. And the thing I encourage is complete that financial statement very detailed. This is your opportunity to show a bank what you've done with your life and the assets you've built and and the liquidity you've built. We've had, you know, after the 2008 financial stuff, a lot of people were very weary about disclosing everything they've got, and they've worried about having all their assets in one bank, and and so there's a lot of fear that's um still with some of that for clients. But that personal financial statement really sets you up to be successful for a bank to approve your loan request. Because they're looking at do they have liquidity? Do they have uh do they have the ability to scramble if necessary? You know, the things that happened in 2008 where people were real estate rich and cash poor. They didn't have a lot of ways to scramble during a during a bad economy. So those those things, that personal financial statement's very important. That's probably one of the biggest things I think people overlook. Secondly, it's the it can be the the property itself. Um what are your what are you doing with it? What is your plans with it? Um how's that repayment gonna come? Is it are you trying to stretch it on a 30-year amortization just to make it break even? It's probably not gonna get done. Most banks try to keep things around a 20 to maybe a 25 year amortization. So that's that's probably the secondary thing, but that really that how you set yourself up personally and and representing all of your financials, disclosing all of your stuff, making sure the bank has a great understanding of everything that you're doing. Because if they have that, it's so much easier when you're in front of the underwriter and you're detailing this stuff to them that they are not asking these extra questions where you're going back to the client over and over again. And that's part of my job. What's important is I need to ask for all of the things and let you know these are the things I need to help me get this put together for you.

SPEAKER_00 8:56

You and I did a deal at probably closed uh let's say spring of last year, and we had to look at my client personally who did a good job of uh representing himself, but then we took a really hard look at the it was a reverse build to suit, and we took a really hard look at the tenant and the lease structure. And I know um you worked really hard to get that debt service ratio to kind of just barely what you needed out of the gate, but we knew that um as the lease jumped over time, um the it be the deal went from a very small return to a much more likable return. And we actually did push that to a 25-year amateurization, if I remember correctly.

SPEAKER_01 9:41

And and then on that particular uh instance, that was a brand new build. They were uh they're from what I remember, if that's one you're talking about, it was a brand new construction. And um the lease was uh, you know, in the beginning stages as the company was trying to ramp up their operations there that was leasing the property, uh they needed a little bit more flexibility in that payment, so it made a little bit lower on the lease amount coming in, but the client was going to uh have better returns as the lease progressed. So uh they were uh we were able to look at that, and what I did is just kind of tiered it up as I as I looked at the cash flows and said this will improve. It may be a little thin on year one, but by year two, three, and four it was it was improving significantly for the client. And it was a it was a it was a great opportunity for them. It was a uh it's a really nice asset they've they've put together now. And and utilizing the 25 year am, that's a brand new building. So it's got a much longer life expectancy. Uh banks look at that. They look at what's the chances this this facility's worth that in 10 years. It what's that um uh what kind of maintenance is it going to require? What kind of improvements are gonna have to be done? In that instance, that's it's brand new. So it's easier to go that 25-year AM.

Taxes And Cash Flow Reality

SPEAKER_00 10:57

We have very minimal out of the gate. Yeah. Um now, shifting gears just a little bit, but you and I have I've sat in your office and told people, and I've and you you'll kind of smile and shake your head. You and I are not, we do not represent the Internal Revenue Service. And so tax returns are really important. I think people are worried when they're talking to us that we're gonna, you know, you you do not represent the Internal Revenue Service, but it is important for people to understand that that tax return is what is representative of what they earned. Yes. So if we're gonna borrow, we need to really pay our taxes and push that income in the right direction.

Leasing Risk And Tenant Strength

SPEAKER_01 11:40

Aaron Powell And I think that's something that's that's missed. A lot of people think that I need to, of course, we all want to reduce our tax liability. We'd love to pay less taxes. But how that impacts your your business and its ability to borrow is significant. And having a CPA in place that helps guide you on those things, understanding what your growth needs are gonna be against what you're wanting to do to reduce your tax liabilities. So every everybody wants a tax reduction strategy. Banks want to see you make as much money as possible because that cash flow is is very important. We want to make sure that it's not it's not draining on you where you're having to borrow from this company to pay this company and you're moving money around all the time. But a lot of customers get a little, you know, they'll get some people will get concerned about why are you wanting all this and why are you digging into this. No, we don't, that's not something we work for the IRS. What we're looking for is to have a really, really good understanding of your of your business, how it operates, and how those cash flows are working. And so when if you file your tax returns and you're constantly taking losses, not only are you um reducing your chance of getting that you know that opportunity to grow your business with other borrowing needs, but you're also hurting the long-term sale of your business. Because when people go back, they're gonna look at those financials and they've got to see that they're gonna get the return of what you're wanting for this business. So if you're if that company shows it's been taking a loss every year, um nobody wants to buy a loss. You know, I'm gonna put a million dollars in and I'm gonna lose$75,000 a year, doesn't sound like a great investment. So it's a balance. It's a very, it's a it's a difficult balance, and that's why you know a good CPA that understands what your goals are, but also understands the tax laws is very important to a company and its success and and how it interacts with a bank.

SPEAKER_00 13:35

We've talked a little bit about kind of today's today's game. Give me a couple three, four bullet bullet points of kind of like pre-COVID, post-COVID, that the things that have changed.

SPEAKER_01 13:47

Definitely the rate piece has changed. Uh that's uh that that impacted a lot of ability to pay for things. When you're looking at a three and a quarter percent fixed rate versus a you know five, seven, five to six, seven five, seven and a quarter, according to what banks are, you know, banks price their stuff based on the the things that they're looking for if they're overloaded on a certain type of asset, they'll generally drive the rates up on those type of loans versus they may reduce rates on another type of loan. And and that's just to try to balance their, you know, keep a good balance sheet for them. The so the rate piece has really affected a lot since since COVID with the rates increasing. Um costs, labor costs, those are significant for people. And then um there I think the there's a lot more opportunities to purchase some properties now that versus where everything was at. A lot of people were just purchasing no matter what and felt like I can make it work. Uh we're seeing some areas where there's there's a little bit of things slowing down. And so people need to be cautious and making sure they they're looking if they're if it's gonna be investment, uh, just straight investment real estate, uh, making sure they they negotiate good leases and and have somebody involved that is making sure they're gonna get a good return on that, and that the the tenant they're looking at is is a strong tenant, that they're not they might not go bankrupt in a month or two. You want to make sure that whoever you're signing that lease with is is somebody that can that can sustain that lease payment for a long period of time because your repayment of that loan on the building is dependent on that lease income. And so a lot of people don't look at the financials of the tenant, they're just thinking, I just need a tenant and I need a lease. When if you've got a good broker in there that's looking at things and helping negotiate that, they're looking at the financials of that company, as well as the bank can look at those as well. If it's a main tenant, they're gonna ask for some financials on that company that's gonna be the tenant, just to make sure that they're strong enough to sustain that lease long term long term.

Underwriter Pushback And Bank Relationships

SPEAKER_00 15:53

Okay, let's talk about some of the things that the underwriter is gonna look at. Um, maybe a short, to your point, a shorter-term lease, special use property, something that's a little bit um of an oddity, deferred maintenance, um, unrealistic projections, incomplete financials. Like talk through some of the pushback that you're getting, and then maybe even for our listeners, some ways to either remedy or be prepared for those things.

SPEAKER_01 16:20

So some of the stuff I've seen most recently has been where lease terms are running out on a refinance of a building. And so most banks try to match their the term of your loan to the term of the leases that are remaining. So if you've got a two years remaining on a lease, they kind of want to match those up so that the bank is getting that opportunity to look at that loan as those leases are coming due. Now, if there's options in there, banks will consider the options that they can renew that lease. The bank wants to match up the term of your loan. So a lot of banks will do a five-year, ten-year term on a loan with a 15, 20, 25-year amortization. If your lease has only got two years left on it, banks generally are looking at that as a potential issue that there's only two years left on the lease. Would you be able to continue that for the total five year of your term on the loan, making sure those match up? So we'll try to match those up or we'll look at the options that are out there on those leases to see if there's a renewal in there where they've got a renewal and in understanding if that company is looking to leave, if they're staying long term with you and they're going to continue the rest of their options on that lease. So that's that's been somewhat difficult because some people did a three-year note and their lease has only got two years left on it. So that's that's some of it. Um the biggest thing, again, goes back to that personal financial statement and your and your ability to to scramble if needed. And and finally, the last thing I would say is having a banking relationship with the bank. Uh banks aren't really interested in transactions. Uh if if somebody's coming in and they're just wanting to look at a loan, but they already indicate we don't want to have deposit relationships with you, we don't want to do all these things, underwriters will kick that back pretty quickly. They because they're the banks aren't looking for a transaction. We're looked at more favorably if we're building relationships and we're and we're growing the relationships we have. Uh most banks are you know, over the last couple of years have been uh scrambling for deposits. You know, one of the things I love about Fidelity Bank was we were not stressing that as badly. It's a very well-positioned bank with a good deposit base. So we were able to just maintain where we were at and continue growing as a bank. And but relationships are important. And having a a good relationship, getting to know your commercial banker, being letting them kind of hear what it is you're doing up front, get with them early. Um that helps prevent some of the things that underwriters are kicking back. But really it's it's the terms of the leases, it's the uh you don't have a banking relationship, you're just looking for a transaction. Uh those those things will usually put a sour taste in the underwriter's mouth when he's when he's making that he or she's making that decision.

SPEAKER_00 19:14

Very complex topic we're going to pivot to, but I want to keep it basic in nature. Talk about SBA lending. I have uh seen some people use it really well. I think there's a lot of confusion about it, but give us kind of like, you know, a little bit of a kind of a two-minute explanation of how that works.

SPEAKER_01 19:35

Generally on the SBA side, it is, it can be complicated. A lot of people get a little bit concerned with the amount of information and things you have to provide. But most of us work with a local uh group like a uh Central Island Development Corp or BEV Corps. Those two are big SBA 504 lenders. So there's 504 lending and there's 7A lending. 504 is generally used for owner-occupied commercial real estate transactions, usually helps a borrower put less money down at times. Also will give them a longer-term fixed rate option. So on the 504 side, banks will usually hold a loan for uh 50% of the loan. The SBA will take a 40% or a 35% based on what the transaction is, and the customer puts in that difference. And working with those groups, like uh one particular uh person that I work with is Eric Dixon. Uh he's been in banking a very long time in the Gaston County area, and he is really, really good with working with on the SBA side of it. So uh we have our own SBA group in the bank, but that's generally to work on 7A products, and then they'll um every bank has to work with a with a a group like what Eric Dixon does to handle the uh the 504 piece of it. Um But it's it's a great option for customers coming in. Maybe you're growing your business, you're looking to expand, but you you haven't quite jumped to that next level, and this is what it's gonna help you do. It gives you opportunities, gives you some uh some uh less money into it, and some longer-term amortizations too. They uh most banks weren't going beyond 20 years, but the SBA was giving a 25-year amortization. Now banks have kind of given a little bit more there. Plus, it also puts the the bank in a more comfortable position because they're spreading their risk out. So that's if there's if there's something about the financials where it's a little bit, maybe it's just not quite the cash flow, maybe it's maybe the ass there's not a lot of money to put into it right away, uh, that helps the banks get over that because they can they're they can utilize the SBA to kind of offset some of that risk. Now, the tough part is if it's a brand new construction, because most banks hold the construction loan all the way through and the SBA doesn't. Payout until the project is finished and you've received your certificate of occupancy. And it's usually about 90 days after that that the bank will receive those funds. So the bank is still at risk during the construction phase on an SBA loan, but they're monitoring that in such a way they know they're they're pretty confident that they'll get their payout from the SBA. But we'll we'll usually underwrite construction loans as if we're trying to keep them just to make sure. So um, but just a purchase with some improvements and stuff generally doesn't take that long to get done.

Getting Ready 12 Months Early

SPEAKER_00 22:30

So maybe I'm um working with a client, you know, I want to get them ready. Maybe I'm even the investor. Twelve months prior to buying, what are some things that I need to focus on? What are some things that I need to make sure are right?

SPEAKER_01 22:43

I think uh 12 months in advance is, you know, and some people don't come into it 12 months in advance when they're looking at it. Usually something kind of comes around that they jump into it. But if you've got that much time to plan for it, first thing I'd focus on is on your on your personal financial statements and your personal assets, really kind of getting that in line. Any little debts that are out there that you can eliminate, uh, because most banks look at everything, not just on the property itself, but they're looking at it on a global basis. They're looking at everything. We take all of your income, all of your debt, and make a decision based on not just that particular property. So, so making sure you kind of get a lot of those things in order, make sure that you're um you're talking with your CP about your financials. Maybe you're coming up on year end and some uh CPA may say, hey, well, let's go spend a lot of of this income and drive the income down. Uh, you know you're buying something soon. So you may not want to jump in and do that. You may want to show enough income where you can you know have some uh some additional cash flow. Uh things like that is what I would look at. I would look at um uh really just trying to um start thinking about the relationship you have with your current banker if you're working with somebody, or maybe you're looking at a different bank and you want to work with them. You want to start building other parts of the relationship going into that loan request, opening an account so they're getting to know you. Sit down and talk with them so they they know this is coming. They can most bankers will sit down with their underwriters and ask, hey, tell me a little bit about where, you know, is this one gonna be something we definitely want to look at? What are some things I should address in order to uh to uh make this one work uh where we can get it approved and get it through the system? I think those things are very, very important for a client to look at when they're they're thinking about purchasing a building and and working toward that. Is you your relationship with your banker is very, very important. And uh and their understanding of what you do is extremely important because they're explaining that to somebody else, they're putting that in a credit memo form, and yeah, there's somebody that's helping plug those financials in, but for what I do, I do my own analysis. I look through everything and make sure I have a really good understanding before I present to the underwriter. I want I want to know that it's gonna work going into it, not just guessing and wasting time. A lot of times when we get into the underwriting piece where things get sideways too, is maybe the financials weren't put together completely, uh that something wasn't uh understandable. There's, you know, there's mistakes that happen. Balance sheets don't balance, the income's not coming through, you didn't take enough distributions, there's tax liabilities. Make sure you're cleaning all those things up before you get to this this part of it. Because once it starts going down that that uh going into the underwriting piece of it, it's hard to back up when there's a big error that's on there or something that looks bad, because then it makes people think, well, what else could be wrong? So so really try to try to make sure you you get with your CPA, understanding how your financials look, that everything is looking good, and building that relationship with your bank. Just really trying to build that.

SPEAKER_00 25:54

Yeah, I mean, I got to tell you that I I know I didn't give you 12 months a lot of times, but having you around the corner was great because if I was sitting with someone and we hadn't written a contract, we hadn't identified a property, I'm like, let's just go talk to Ken. And um, a lot of times, too, we could come up with a great ceiling. You know, it's like, you know, something around$600,000 with good cash flow is is something you can afford, or something around a million. Well, that helps me out, right? I start to know where to shop.

SPEAKER_01 26:21

And that's where you're that's where that relationship with the bank is is a good thing, where you can sit down with your banker and you can talk to them about this is what I'm thinking about doing, and we can go through your financials because we understand where you're at and go, all right, this is this is where you're looking to go. This is what I would think about. And um, I think you can you could it will work within this this realm. And and that helps you shop, it helps you look around, be more realistic about what you're looking for. There's been many, many times uh in in my history that I've had somebody come in and they're thinking, I want to buy this, and it's some very high price thing. They're thinking that they can make it work, and then we go through the numbers and start, well, this is what that payment's gonna look like, and you can just see it on their face, they're like, Well, I thought I'd have a little bit more flexibility. This is how much you're gonna have to put into it. That's the other part of it, is how much down payment is gonna be required to go with that. Based on what you're purchasing, it could be anything. It could be 20% in, it could be 25%, it could be 35%. If you're just purchasing land and you don't really have a purpose for it, banks are looking for additional equity into those types of projects. So really kind of understanding that part of it too is really important in the beginning.

Lightning Round And Final Takeaways

SPEAKER_00 27:36

Um So, Ken, I I gotta tell you, I really appreciate you coming over and uh spending time with me. I know you're a busy guy. Give me, Lim, you know, let's do the lightning round here. Give me kind of three quick bullet points for our listeners of things that they can pay attention to when it comes to banking and using financing and leverage to do a deal.

SPEAKER_01 27:56

Again, that uh building your assets, having the having that cash, uh, that additional cash for the investment, having additional cash for scrambling, uh limiting the crazy expenses. Uh some of the things that we were I was uh talking to somebody earlier about was you know, if you've got four Lamborghinis financed and your payments are$3,000,$4,000 a month, maybe eliminate some of those payments to help free up some cash flow.

SPEAKER_00 28:23

So two Lamborghinis not. Maybe two, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:26

Just try to try to avoid the, you know, banks look at the uh we we call it the toys. What what kind of toys do they have? And and are they able to afford those toys? Because those have significant expenses. So and again, I go back to it, just building that relationship with the bank and building a uh that does help. It helps with uh when you're building that relationship and you've got a banking relationship with them, it helps them determine a a better interest rate for you. They're able to factor those things in, they're able to, they're able to look at, hey, I understand this person, I can turn it around a little bit faster for them because I already I'm already familiar with how they how they do things. And and that's and it helps to have you know a good referral source where they're introducing you because now you've got a warm introduction and that bank is able to say, okay, I understand. I know, I know Sam's working with them. So Sam's he's gonna scrutinize this thing, he's gonna go through it and he's gonna make sure he's negotiating and getting you know a better return on this for the client. And and and it's it's more understandable than when they're coming in saying, I'm hoping I'll get a lease on this. I'm just gonna buy this, but maybe I'll get it leased out. That's not gonna help the bank get it done. So having somebody that you know is that is pretty firm on the hey, if we get this, I can get this leased for this. And we're we're already working on an LOI. Most of the time you bought stuff, you were pretty close to an LOI on it, and it was ready to go. And it was a, I mean, it was pretty easy to get done when it's something like that.

SPEAKER_00 29:48

Well, man, again, I really appreciate having you. Um always appreciate uh your professionalism in the business. And um, as I told our listeners, I have all my money with Fidelity, and if I need leverage, I know where to go.

SPEAKER_01 30:00

Yeah, come see me.

SPEAKER_00 30:01

I'll take care of you. You always you've looked out for us, I'll look out for you too. All right, thanks, buddy. Thank you, sir. Thanks for spending your time with us today. I really appreciate you being here. If you found this episode helpful, make sure to like, comment, and subscribe. And don't forget to hit the notification bell so you can unlock all of our content and never miss a beat. We've got a lot more conversations coming your way, and I'm excited to unlock even more of the commercial real estate industry with you in the next episode. We'll see you there.