How YouTubers are upending the arts world

Backrooms and Obsession are two of the hottest films playing at the cinema right now. 
Yet these horror films share more than just a genre: both were made on a shoestring budget, both are smashing box office records, and both were made by Gen Z film makers who used YouTube to hone their craft. And Hollywood is paying attention.  
So what does this say about having a successful career in the creative industries these days?  
In All Caught Up’s very first episode, Ben and Anoushka consider how technology and social media are changing artforms like film, music and dance, whether traditional training still matters, and what it takes to be a successful creator.  

With special guests filmmaker Tyler Kang and dancer Hannah Roberts.  

Reading List:  

The Polycrisis for Arts and Creative Education in Australia: Australian Journal of Education 

From free university to $15,000 a year for an arts degree — tracking the cost of Australia's higher education over three generations

All Caught Up: A Newsworthy Podcast. 

Follow Newsworthy on Instagram 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hi, this is All Caught Up, and I'm Anushka.

SPEAKER_02 0:03

And I'm Ben, and let's catch up. Firstly, welcome to episode one of the newsworthy podcast All Caught Up, where we're gonna discuss new news stories every single week. So tell me what this week's about, Anushka.

SPEAKER_01 0:23

Okay, so have you seen that new film Obsession? It stars Indy Navarrett and Michael Johnston. It's everywhere at the moment.

SPEAKER_02 0:29

Yeah, and I'm not even a horror sort of guy, but I've I have seen this one everywhere. My friends are talking about it. It's on TikTok, as everyone knows. Um, definitely one I'll see maybe in the next week, if I can, you know, get someone to come along with me. And someone who's maybe really good at watching horror movies because I'm a scary cat in the cinema.

SPEAKER_01 0:45

Obsession, as you said, is a horror film, but not just that, it's an independent horror film. And the storyline follows a relationship, but a bit of a plot twist. The man makes a wish and he curses her to be obsessed with him, and then essentially from there, yeah, yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_02 0:59

From there, I think we gotta watch the movie because you're gonna spoil it, I'm gonna watch it, I'm gonna enjoy it, and I'm sure the people listening will too. But what we're really interested about personally is is all about the person behind the scenes of the movie, how much the movie made, how did it come to be? It sort of just blew up out of nowhere, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_01 1:14

The man behind it is Curry Barker. Haven't heard a lot about him before, but I feel like we will now. He is a 26-year-old film director. It's quite young, I feel, to be making big movies like this.

SPEAKER_02 1:24

Curry's done super well. So he's made this film with a budget of one million dollars, and he's made from it a hundred million dollars. And it was filmed in just 20 days. Fair play, Curry.

SPEAKER_01 1:33

That's really good. And he dropped out of New York Film Academy to turn to YouTube to pursue his career. He made comedy skits and short horror films, all on YouTube, all on that one free platform.

SPEAKER_02 1:43

Yeah. Did you did you see any of those or?

SPEAKER_01 1:46

I haven't seen any of his original stuff, no.

SPEAKER_02 1:49

Neither. I w I wonder if like people in Australia have seen it. Obviously he's from America, but yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:54

Anyways, well it must be quite popular though to kind of make him then springboard into doing films like this. Yeah. You'd have to assume.

SPEAKER_02 2:01

No, 100%. I reckon they'd have like millions of views on YouTube. And and saying in horror, there's also another film I've been seeing so much about. I'm wondering if you know about it's called Backrooms.

SPEAKER_01 2:09

Yes, so Backrooms is an A24 film directed by Kane Parsons. So the film is all about the backrooms, the liminal dreamlike spaces that have that very eerie feel to them. You know, when you're in an abandoned car park. And the storyline follows a struggling furniture store owner played by Chewitol Egifor. He's quite popular at the moment, and he discovers a portal in his basement, and from there, there's a lot of creepy things and horrid things that are happening.

SPEAKER_02 2:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:35

So, Ben, how old do you think Kane Parsons would be?

SPEAKER_02 2:38

Well, to be fair, I know he must be young, because I think the backrooms is sort of like a very young person thing. And I have done my research. He is 20 years old.

SPEAKER_01 2:46

There we go, younger than both of us.

SPEAKER_02 2:48

But yeah, no, he he's doing really well for himself at such a young age, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:52

Definitely. And he also dropped out of uni, right?

SPEAKER_02 2:54

Uh he he didn't even make it to uni, which is crazy to me. Fair play. He went straight from high school, put these YouTube videos up, got the traction, and then someone's come with a $10 million budget to him. He's flipped it and he's made $118 million with his movie backroom. So, you know, well done, Kane. Like, seriously, well done.

SPEAKER_01 3:10

But you do have to wonder how did he even get that $10 million budget in the first place? Well, he developed his skills on YouTube. He put his content out to show the world his skills. And the web series he put out is actually very interesting. It was based on the backrooms. Have you ever seen it before?

SPEAKER_02 3:25

No, but I've heard about it. It does lead you to think if you know, two of the most successful horror movies right now are created by non-formally educated people, is creativity still developed at uni? You know, like are degrees even needed for success? These guys have done so well without them.

SPEAKER_01 3:40

100%. And I feel like a lot of conversations around that are to do with the decline of creativity, especially in formal education and tertiary education.

SPEAKER_02 3:48

Yeah, no, I think most of the uni courses that I do, there's a bit of a discussion about, you know, is creativity dying? You know, are Gen Z less creatively inclined compared to the old people? Because you can just ask Google for anything, right?

SPEAKER_01 4:00

100% and ChatGPT?

SPEAKER_02 4:02

ChatGPT, yeah. And the research is agreeing. Well, this report in February by the Australian Journal of Education showed that in the five years between 2018 and 2023, undergrad enrollments in creative art degrees declined 65%.

SPEAKER_01 4:16

That is a massive percent.

SPEAKER_02 4:17

Right. That's 14% at ANU, for example, and 11% at UTS. Why do you think that is?

SPEAKER_01 4:22

I feel like you have to consider the pricing of arts degrees nowadays. You know, that's that same study revealed that the cost of creative arts programs rose by 19%. To put that into context, under the Morrison government, the cost of arts degrees soared. So in 2020, for a three-year degree, the student contribution was less than $7,000 per year. And then just three years later, in 2023, it skyrocketed to over $15,000 per year. That's pushing up fees by 113%. These costs, they're pricing out students who can't afford to pay the premium. But those same people still might have the passion and the talent. What do they do? What's their pathway? They turn to free platforms like YouTube, like social media, like TikTok.

SPEAKER_02 5:03

And I think turning to YouTube and social media platforms that are free makes a lot of sense because all these creative art degrees don't have that much, you know, job stability. Once you graduate from this super expensive degree, can you even get a job?

SPEAKER_01 5:15

Yeah, there's no reliability in that.

SPEAKER_02 5:16

Unless you're Kane Parsons or um or this Curry Barker guy, like can you do it? Can you do it through a degree? Do you need to get those hours, get those eyeballs on your movies on YouTube, and then get picked up by a different brand instead?

SPEAKER_01 5:29

Definitely. And I feel like that you can see now why Curry or Kane skip film school and they focus on creating and cultivating their own personal portfolios that really expose their work.

SPEAKER_02 5:38

Right, totally agree. And YouTube is a tough place. So fair play to them because there's 14 to 15 billion YouTube videos on the platform right now. I can't even comprehend that number.

SPEAKER_01 5:48

No, me not.

SPEAKER_02 5:49

And there's over 500 hours of video posted every single minute.

SPEAKER_01 5:53

How is anybody supposed to break through the noise, let alone these film guys? How are they, you know, putting eyes on their work?

SPEAKER_02 6:00

Surely there's other benefits of formal education. You know, we're all here studying as well, so I reckon there's more, you know, you can learn through the industry, you can make connections, networking, all the things like that. And someone we're gonna speak to now, he's an afters graduate, Australian Film, Television, and Radio School graduate, and his name's Tyler Kang. Um, he's won a couple of student film awards, he's really cool, and he's gonna speak all about the changing relationship about breaking into the film industry and the effect of YouTube.

SPEAKER_01 6:25

And if his degree was even needed.

SPEAKER_03 6:27

People working in the industry who have come from all sorts of backgrounds like theatre, from a finance degree, from just no degree, and jumping straight onto sets, and just helping out, learning as a truck driver. All kinds of people from all different paths, and yeah, a film degree is just one of them, but it's definitely um a helpful stepping stone in my eyes if you end up in a good cohort and are surrounded by good people who you can collaborate with and sort of grow with together. I think that's the main benefits of the film school. You can always learn about filmmaking online or through books, but it's a bit harder to do that and you're doing it alone, and it's harder to stay motivated and harder to meet people. So I think film school is a great sort of reading ground to get into it, and it's definitely sort of what you make of it.

SPEAKER_02 7:18

Yeah, so what Tyler is saying is having a degree is still important. It's all about having a cohort, having a group of people that you can learn with together. Maybe that's not something YouTube could offer. So there's definitely still a place to make connections and socialize through a degree.

SPEAKER_01 7:32

That being said, what's YouTube place in that? Because in some way, you can get a lot of those elements through YouTube university.

SPEAKER_03 7:40

I think at the same time, people sort of oversimplify the idea of a YouTube education. Like, unless you're very intentional about finding great teachers and learning critically, it's just really easy to get pulled into I guess YouTube content creator world rather than filmmaking. I think there's a small difference. If you actively choose to curate a good good teachers, good videos, maybe it's really possible to get a great education out of it, but maybe the better yeah, education than just watching YouTube tutorials and stuff is the side of like Carrie Barker who's actually just making stuff every week, and that's probably where he learned the most. In any world, the best way to learn is by making. I think Carrie Barker is like incredibly talented, worked extremely hard, built strong networks, and benefited from great timing and luck as well. Um yeah, every director needs some degree of luck regardless of how they learned. Um but yeah, so it's really inspiring to see films like that being picked up. But I think there's a media narrative about you know, it's easier to make a film now than ever. Um but you know, directors that are getting actual funding to make a good film is actually basically a one-off scenario like Carrie Baker, or you know, you hear about it every now and then, uh, which is very inspiring to hear, but um it's you know, one in a million.

SPEAKER_02 9:34

Tyler raises such a good point here. It's all about intention. That's the word of the hour. Anyone can post a video on YouTube, there's 500 hours of it being posted every minute, but it needs to be content that you're proud of, and people are gravitating to that authentic sort of video. Um I think what's really important is being consistent with it. If you post all these videos but you don't really care about what you're posting, I don't think you're gonna be able to make the success. So yeah, it's all about making consistent content with strong intention.

SPEAKER_01 10:03

Exactly. I think that's a very interesting point. And did you ask Tyler, like from his perspective as a recent graduate, about Kari Barker and Kane Parsons and how he feels about them?

SPEAKER_02 10:11

No, he had some really insightful opinions on Kyrie Barker. Um, I think it's all about luck, you were saying, and timing, and how sometimes you need a little bit of luck and timing to make things work.

SPEAKER_03 10:21

And I also think it's such a great platform to be able to be seen by anyone at any time is quite a crazy feeling to know that it could just be watched by anyone at any time anywhere in the world, and you know, maybe it's seen by some rich guy who decides to fund it, to fund the feature.

SPEAKER_01 10:41

I really like that point about luck, and I it's so true, not just in the film industry, but in all it all creative industries, you know, there is an element or a little sprinkle of luck that you need to be in the right place at the right time to get the right eyes on you to get to where you want to be.

SPEAKER_02 10:55

Someone who did have some good luck as well in the film sort of world was Wesley Wang. So he's an American film director and screenwriter, and he's best known for this film. It's called Nothing Except Everything. Great film. Check it out. I did see this one naturally just on YouTube. It's 10 minutes, it's super good. If you have 10 minutes of spare time, I genuinely recommend giving it a watch. And now he's been nominated for this Forbes 30 under 30 thing. He's been producing for tri-star pictures. It's a great example of how you might put something on YouTube and pick up a little bit of luck, and now he's made it. So you know.

SPEAKER_01 11:26

And although I haven't seen that film, I have seen a lot about the people in it. So Lily Chi, she kind of got her start on social media from that film, to my understanding.

SPEAKER_02 11:34

Yeah, and that's luck from her side as well. So the whole creative arts world is it's not only luck, of course, but that definitely does play a part, I agree. But what other industry needs luck? I reckon music is a great example.

SPEAKER_01 11:49

Creative freedom has always been a point of tension in the music industry. You have record labels, and they're traditionally after kind of volume and revenue, and on the other side, you have artists, and they typically want freedom in what they make. It's been a running battle for many decades between the labels and the artists about the production of music. So currently you have Ray, she's a British singer-songwriter. She was initially signed to a label called Polydor, but they withheld her music for seven years and they refused to release her music. And now she's broken out of that deal, and now she's producing and releasing her own music on her terms. She's got the creative freedom, and she also keeps a majority of the profits.

SPEAKER_02 12:28

Right, and even more popular artists like Drake are doing the same thing. Recently, last month, even he released three albums to get out of his record label deal. And although the quality might not have been there, it was all about getting his own independence back. So I think it's really interesting. Something that's been happening for years as well.

SPEAKER_01 12:43

And sort of moving away from the pop music now, something more niche. You were talking about two-set violin.

SPEAKER_02 12:48

Yeah, no, two-set violin. Super interesting. I'm not the most classical music sort of guy. I did play one year of viola, actually, in year seven, which was really, really interesting. Um, it's like, for people who don't know, I don't know if I'm mansplaining viola, but it's like a violin with one less octave, uh one lower octave. Anyways, the world of classical music, it felt quite structured, quite regimened, you know, you gotta study quite early in the morning. But these Australian Taiwanese musicians, two set violin, they've made their craft on YouTube, similar to Kane Parsons and Cory Barker did before, and they've got 4.4 million followers right now. So they've gone through a different path to the classical scene, and they're the only people I know sort of in this classical realm. So I just thought that was really interesting.

SPEAKER_01 13:28

Yeah, it's really cool that these guys are getting respect from the classical music scene by creating humorous videos. And like despite your one year of viola, I wouldn't necessarily pin you as a classical music kind of guy. But because of their content, because of the way they intertwine humour and music and creativity, and all putting it on a free platform like YouTube, they make it so much more accessible to all kinds of people. Like I'd be inclined to listen to it, and I also wouldn't necessarily reach for it.

SPEAKER_02 13:53

Exactly. If you asked us to go to a concert and pay $200 to watch an orchestra, I probably would say no. But I'm happy to switch on a YouTube video. So it just shows how different avenues, such as YouTube and the accessibility they do grant, you know, broaden the field of audience. So yeah, that is is really interesting.

SPEAKER_01 14:09

Definitely.

SPEAKER_02 14:10

They had a live show last night in Sydney at the Metropolitan Orchestra, quite a quite an esteemed place for a bunch of YouTubers, but fair play. Um, it's cool to see that musicians are selling out shows in these sort of venues by starting on YouTube.

SPEAKER_01 14:22

I feel like we have to give some credit here to social media, specifically TikTok and the music scene on TikTok. I know I've discovered a fair amount of new music just having a scroll one night, or saving it to my own profile and then transferring it onto Spotify to listen to it later.

SPEAKER_02 14:37

A good example is Jazz House. So I'm not really a jazz house kind of person, but on TikTok my friends discovered Berlioz that got shared around to me, and then they went to the concert recently. So it it does show how social media is showing people new music.

SPEAKER_01 14:52

And it's also artists. So you've got Zara Larson. A couple months ago, I feel like she wasn't really heard of anymore. She had kind of had her heyday in pop, but now she's back, all based off TikTok fame, you know, and a lot of talent, but TikTok fame played a lot of part of it.

SPEAKER_02 15:06

Right, it's more like these people have the talent, but how do they put themselves in front of all these eyes? Because people aren't buying, you know, records anymore and listening to full-on albums they're watching TikTok, so that's how you get out there these days.

SPEAKER_01 15:17

Definitely, I agree.

SPEAKER_02 15:22

Speaking of TikTok, let's look at another form of art which has taken off on the platform dance.

SPEAKER_01 15:28

Yeah, you know what I would say, it's probably one of the more overlooked forms of art because recently I've not watched a live dance show, but what I have watched a fair amount of TikTok dances. So maybe success is shifting to being measured online. So dance videos account for 28% of the one billion daily views on TikTok. That's quite an insane percentage when you really think about all the types of content that are on TikTok currently.

SPEAKER_02 15:53

Right, and you've got stars like Charlie D'Amelio making a whole career off dancing on TikTok, and she's the second most followed person on the app, but she doesn't have a formal dance degree. She just put herself out there, did some dances, and then blew up. So, you know, fair play, using a different avenue to get success. And I think this is being reflected for companies like Sydney Dance Company, for example, and their revenue numbers. The AFR reported that Sydney Dance Company had four deficits in a row since 2022. They're now at a loss of $5.2 million.

SPEAKER_01 16:22

That's insane. And we talked to a recent graduate from Sydney Dance Company, Hannah, and she said it better than we ever could.

SPEAKER_00 16:28

You could probably name more famous TikTok dances than you can professionally working dances that are currently in the industry right now. So most people, yeah, probably know Charlie DiMilio, but couldn't name a single working famous ballerina. And I guess that says a lot about how visible the dance industry is.

SPEAKER_01 16:46

Hannah and these stats show that dancing is changing to be more online. And what are the benefits of this? You know, you can access it from your house, it's completely free at your whim at any moment. There's also so many different styles that you can access. You know, I feel like if you search up contemporary dance, even a tutorial, it'll come up.

SPEAKER_02 17:02

You know, yeah, I liked the word she used visibility. I think that was really cool because the art is there, it's just people aren't seeing it. People might not be ready to pay to watch a dance concert, but they can see it on their phones instead.

SPEAKER_01 17:12

Definitely.

SPEAKER_02 17:13

But just playing devil's advocate here, Hannah let us know that formal training might still be worth it. Similar to what Tyler was saying before about the film side of things. You learn networking skills, things about regimen, something that TikTok can't really teach.

SPEAKER_00 17:26

I definitely believe formal dance education is still incredibly valuable. It's just there aren't enough jobs for full-time train dancers in the first place. I know from my formal dance training, I have created extremely special bonds and networks that I now take with me everywhere, um, as well as discipline. And I just think you don't quite get that through TikTok and um uploading dance videos online.

SPEAKER_01 17:53

With online dance blowing up, yet Hannah showing us the benefits of in-person and formal training, it does make you wonder how are the dancers or the companies adapting? What are they doing to kind of allow for this change? Because it's coming no matter what.

SPEAKER_02 18:06

Well, within Sydney Dance Company itself, they are shifting to offer dancing tutorials on TikTok to address this online sort of motive. It's cool to see the business, you know, thinking about how to use free platforms and how to make dancing more accessible for people who want to enjoy the art. It's the first art form that we've seen where the organization themselves have moved to YouTube rather than the individuals. Obviously, we know Kane Parsons and the two set violin did it themselves, but this is a good example of the establishment doing it first.

SPEAKER_01 18:32

Yeah, the shift's going the other way, you know. In the case of dance, it's a bit of a mix of both, then, right? You've got traditional training that's still important and has its benefits, but it's ultimately up to the authorities behind it to support the dancers by utilising the platforms such as TikTok, such as social media, to keep the schools themselves open and running and funded.

SPEAKER_02 18:51

Yeah, and maybe someone might, you know, pick up a video on TikTok, learn a dance, find themselves really interested, and then do a course with Sydney Dance Company, for example.

SPEAKER_01 18:59

There's definitely pathways like that. So, in a nutshell, make this make sense for me.

SPEAKER_02 19:06

Well, let's look at film to start things off. We've got Kane Parsons, we've got Curry Barker, they developed their craft all on YouTube, all for free, then blew up with these massive horror movies.

SPEAKER_01 19:15

Yeah, exactly. And now music?

SPEAKER_02 19:17

Alright, well, from the classical side of things, you've got two-set violin, they've also developed their audience on YouTube rather than the orchestra, and now they're doing shows in the biggest place in Sydney.

SPEAKER_01 19:27

Yeah, and dance.

SPEAKER_02 19:28

Well, the most popular dances are online through, you know, TikTok, rather than the pro ballet dances. There's more money online. Even Sydney Dance Company are leaning towards these online formats. It shows that maybe creativity and the arts are shape-shifting in the modern world, where formal education isn't a must.

SPEAKER_01 19:45

Yeah, it seems with modern technology and the prevalence of social media, there's multiple paths forward. But the moral of that story is to get your art out there through whatever means works best for you. And maybe with a sprinkle of luck, you can be where you want to be.

SPEAKER_02 19:58

Exactly. If you have the ambition, make a YouTube video, create a song, do a dance on TikTok and see where it takes you.

SPEAKER_01 20:04

Definitely. And that's all from this week's episode of All Caught Up. Thank you for listening.

SPEAKER_02 20:08

Next week, we're looking forward to the FIFA World Cup. Woo! Yes. But guess what? Prices are super expensive, so you're not gonna be able to go.

SPEAKER_01 20:16

Oh gosh.

SPEAKER_02 20:17

And that's all for today, you're all caught up.