Is shark culling the answer to the recent rise in shark bites?

Recently there’s been a spike in shark bites across NSW beaches, including the attack on Leah Stewart when she was swimming at Coogee Beach in early June.  

The increased presence of sharks has prompted community calls for more action from governments to protect beachgoers. Some are even calling for shark culls. But environmental experts say culling isn’t the best course of action and could have unintended consequences.  

This week, Ben and Anoushka speak to marine biologist Professor Iain Cruthers and shark expert Melissa Cristina Marquez about why these incidents seem to be increasing, the downsides of shark culling and what could be done instead.  

With special guests, Professor Iain Cruthers  from the Sydney Institute of Marine Science and marine science education expert Melissa Cristina Marquez, 

All Caught Up: A Newsworthy Podcast. 

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Hi, this is All Caught Up. I'm Anushka.

SPEAKER_03 0:02

And I'm Ben, and let's catch up.

SPEAKER_02 0:13

When you think of Australia, what are some things that come to mind? You have the beach, you have the sun, you have the sand, a lot of wildlife, a lot of ocean creatures.

SPEAKER_03 0:21

100%. I think that's what we're known for, apart from like Vegemite. We're known for the what's the what's the spider? The red-backed spider. Yep. You know, snakes, rattlesnakes, and a major one is is sharks. And of course, we hope none of these creatures bother you, but they're wild animals, and that's not always the case.

SPEAKER_02 0:38

Exactly. And recently, on June 13th, a 34-year-old woman, Leah Stewart, was bitten by a great white shark. This left her in critical condition with multiple surgeries to undergo, including an arm amputation. Early last week, she woke briefly from her induced coma to tell her family that she loved them.

SPEAKER_03 0:54

One of the more sad stories that we're going to talk about, and it's not a one-off event, unfortunately. So according to Australian Shark Incident Database, there was 23 shark bites across the country last year. Um, and an ABC analysis said five of these were fatal.

SPEAKER_02 1:08

And five isn't a massive number, but to put it in perspective, just six months into 2026, there have been nine bites and injuries. That's over one a month.

SPEAKER_03 1:17

Right. We were doing some research on this one, and we found that climate change was one of the key problems. So sea temperatures are rising, and that's changing sort of the marine ecosystem. Um so we spoke to UNSW's marine biology professor, Ian Southers, and he had some good answers for us.

SPEAKER_04 1:33

That warm water is it's 22, 23 degree water sometimes. The environment is changing, and the East Australian current drives up nutrients that drives a whole food chain that feeds the small fish, which brings in the shark. So then you've got um that effect of the East Australian current is also being met. I meant to show you on the image, was there's another uh circular eddy driving cold water up from Jervis Bay. And so you've got the warm water from the north and the eddy driving right now, just in the month of June, you can see it's kind and it meets off Sydney. It's coming and it meets off Sydney. So you've got cold water coming up from the south.

SPEAKER_02 2:10

So he's saying that as the water's warm off the coast of Sydney due to climate change, this brings in more plankton, which then brings in more small fish and therefore brings in the sharks.

SPEAKER_03 2:20

Right. I was talking to Ian, he was showing me this map and it showed a recent swell this June, actually. So all the cold water is being brought up to Sydney while the warm water is coming down from the north, right? So it's meeting in the middle in Sydney here, and great white sharks love cold water, so that's why there's more of them due to this environmental change.

SPEAKER_02 2:38

Wow, that really makes sense. Interesting how Sydney's just right in the middle of that.

SPEAKER_03 2:42

Yeah, 100%, and that's why we're seeing more sort of shark bites around the beaches areas.

SPEAKER_02 2:46

And a lot of these recent shark bites are sparking a lot of conversation. And a lot of that conversation is around whether sharks should be culled or not. Plenty of people have opinions about what to do, and a lot of these people include politicians or environmentalists. At the end of the day, you know, beachgoers are getting hurt, and what's being done to prevent this?

SPEAKER_03 3:05

Right, exactly. And that's what we're speaking about today. We're gonna look at both sides on the culling debate. So, for some context, when a shark is sighted, the beach is usually evacuated. But as a person on the beach, it's super difficult to spot any sort of shark, and that's why we've got the state-of-the-art shark drones. So they were introduced about 10 years ago in 2015, and they're supposed to patrol the beaches and let people know when there's a shark on the beach so they can evacuate.

SPEAKER_02 3:32

So the way these drones work, they're essentially little remote controlled devices that are then launched into the air with a built-in camera that feeds back real-time aerial footage to the operator. So the operator can then, you know, look at this footage and can spot the sharks in the water.

SPEAKER_03 3:48

Have you ever seen one of the drones at the beach? I have.

SPEAKER_02 3:50

Have you ever seen the side? Yeah, in Manly. It's really it just looks like one of those standard like recreational drones. But then you can kind of always spot somebody in the corner who's got a black, like full covered thing to be able to look at this screen.

SPEAKER_03 4:02

I always thought it was the helicopters passing by that were spotting sharks, but interesting to know that it's it's the drones. And they've been really useful keeping the beaches safe. Last week, this drone shark app helped spot aerial footage of a great white shark in Bondi and helped warn surfers early in the morning not to start swimming.

SPEAKER_02 4:19

Yeah, and this was really lucky. So the drone captured the footage at about 6.30, which was before the lifeguards were even out. And then Nine News reported that the operator used the lights on the drone to flash surfers to signal them to get out of the water to keep them safe. It's really quite cool.

SPEAKER_03 4:34

That is cool. And I wonder if these surfers have just seen light flashing and assumed that means it's a shark attack. Or what do you reckon is the whole thing, what did the lights tell them?

SPEAKER_02 4:42

I think 10 years on of using drones, it's probably like a bit of an unspoken rule that when you see somebody flashing a light at you, you know to get out.

SPEAKER_03 4:48

Exactly. So Leah Stewart, she was swimming close to the shore, in between the flags at Koju Beach. She did everything right, she followed all the protocols. Makes you wonder how did those sharks swim under the radar?

SPEAKER_02 4:59

In fact, Koji Beach is located in Sydney's eastern suburbs, as is Sydney's main airport. Due to this, shark spotting drones are prohibited as they may interfere with the planes. That's why on Leah's occasion there were no drones to spot these sharks. However, in the wake of this attack, the Civil Aviation Safety Authority has approved drone patrol access across the beach to stop things like this occurring again. They've proved useful and they should really be used.

SPEAKER_03 5:23

Now that these drones are installed across the beaches in Sydney, including Koji, hopefully it doesn't happen again in the future. But what we're going to talk about is sort of this whole media chatter, and the public seems worried that, you know, for a country that prides itself so much on beach culture that people are going to be more scared to swim due to these recent shark attacks.

SPEAKER_02 5:42

Right, a Guardian reporter spoke to Professor Rob Harcourt at North Bondi. He's a surfer and he swims daily. And this conversation showed that surfers are becoming quite nervous and even traumatized at the uncertainty behind these shark incidents. He was saying that him and his mates are really wary of it every time they're surfing.

SPEAKER_03 5:58

Yeah, I mean, I live near Maruba Beach as well, and myself and my roommate, if it rains, we're always a bit nervous to go to the beach. And it's not just us, Ian Southers, who we were talking about before, he's a marine biologist, if you remember, and he spoke about his experience following the shark attacks and the fear it sort of caused for him and his family.

SPEAKER_04 6:14

I promise you, it's in the back of my mind, when I was uh we had young kids and they would jump into the Lancove River uh in the middle of summer, you know, which is when bull sharks come down from the Great Bear Reef and they come into our estuaries just during the journey, February, March, and they go back up to Townsville. And the parents were saying to me, because I was the marine biologist, oh, it's okay for them to swim here, isn't it? And I'm going, uh yeah, I guess it is, but my own child is there in the water as well.

SPEAKER_02 6:42

Thinking about that situation, it must have put a lot of pressure on Ian. You know, the safety of his kids, of other people's kids. It's not really his job at the end of the day. And looking broader to the economy, surely this has some knock-on domino effects.

SPEAKER_03 6:56

Griffiths Institute for Tourism in Queensland did some really good research on this. They're Australia's number one tourism research uni. And they put out a statement in early 2025. They talked about how there needs to be more discussion on shark attacks, as you know, Australia's tourism economy might be at stake.

SPEAKER_02 7:13

Yeah, exactly. And I think it all hinges on the closures, right? So with the recent Great White Sighting at Bondi Beach on the 24th of June, one of Australia's most iconic beaches, the beach was closed back to back. And that's in the winter. Just think about what it would be like in the summer when thousands of people are flocking to the beach each day.

SPEAKER_03 7:29

100%. That can't be good for tourism. Three days of summer. Imagine you booked yourself a three-day trip, you've come, you want to enjoy Bondi, but look, you can't. And that immediate closure must have an effect on that sort of local economy. Think about all those restaurants there who live and breathe off, you know, people buying their food after their beach days.

SPEAKER_02 7:47

Definitely, right? But maybe that is the price we pay. You know, we are entering the shark's natural habitat and nature is unpredictable.

SPEAKER_03 7:54

And it's turned into a bit of a political debate that sort of divided the nation. I'm wondering, Anushka, if you've seen this clip from Tony Abbott, former Prime Minister. He's also an ocean swimmer and a volunteer surf lifesaver, which I didn't know. Um, he has a very, very firm position that sharks should be cult.

SPEAKER_02 8:13

I've definitely seen a lot of people talk about the clip, but I've not seen it recently.

SPEAKER_00 8:19

Just read the latest news about a woman fighting for her life after a shark attack at Coochie Beach. It's so wrong that we don't cull sharks after attacks. It's so wrong that we don't have a commercial shark fishery, given the explosion in shark numbers. And it's so wrong that we don't put people before sharks.

SPEAKER_02 8:43

Okay, so he's very passionate about his point.

SPEAKER_00 8:46

Very passionate.

SPEAKER_02 8:46

So he's trying to prioritize humans, community safety, and he really wants to argue that the government should take active measures to eliminate the threats to all swimmers and all surfers.

SPEAKER_03 8:55

And he raises a point about commercial fisheries. So Tony Abbott thinks that we should look at, you know, increasing these commercial fisheries, specifically targeted at thinning out sharks, to reduce the number of encounters for swimmers and surfers alike. And his viewpoint is about sort of the commercial fishing industry. So he thinks that we should have more of these to, you know, thin out the number of sharks to reduce encounters for swimmers and surfers alike.

SPEAKER_02 9:17

So he raises two points here. You have the community peace of mind and the hypothetical solution, if we do cull the sharks, will people be more likely to swim and surfers more safe?

SPEAKER_03 9:26

Right, so that's more of like the tourism perspective, I guess. And his second point is all about how culling sharks could actually turn into an economic positive. It can help supply seafood and leather products while keeping the beaches safer.

SPEAKER_02 9:38

He's definitely prioritized the humans in this equation, you know, it's really all from the human perspective. On the other side of the coin, there's been a lot of strong pushback against shark culling. You've got a lot of experts, activists, and wildlife conservationists saying that it's just not the answer.

SPEAKER_03 9:58

And calling back to expert Ian Southers, he notes that shark culling could have a negative impact on the marine ecosystems.

SPEAKER_04 10:04

And if you start to introduce a cull, then the cull will then remove the presence of big sharks. And therefore, big shark like to eat little shark. Um it's kind of weird, but in biology, you know, we've come to realize that cannibalism, which sounds horrific and that only primitive tribes undertake, it's common throughout ecology. So sharks do eat small shark. If you start to put a cull, then all you have lots of these little small teenage sharks that are just growing like crazy, they're hungry like any teenager, and they snap when they're out of without thinking really. And that's when they interact with humans, there's that snap which is lethal.

SPEAKER_02 10:47

Okay, so it's a bit of a cyclical issue that results in teenage sharks completely snapping and being a lot more unpredictable.

SPEAKER_03 10:53

He's got such interesting points. I didn't know that sharks also ate other sharks. I guess because they're like individual swimming creatures, they're not in packs. It is quite interesting to think that if you cull the bigger sharks, there's going to be all these smaller sharks making an impact as well.

SPEAKER_02 11:07

And these smaller sharks are typically more aggressive, and therefore, when they have human interaction, it's a lot more fatal.

SPEAKER_03 11:14

Agreed. And marine scientist Melissa Marquez argued against culling as well.

SPEAKER_01 11:18

Hi everyone, my name is Melissa Cristina Marquez. I am a shark scientist who focuses on the human dimension of their conservations. Melissa had a very interesting point of view.

SPEAKER_03 11:30

Agreed. And if you have a keen ear, you might have noticed that we've really tried to stay away from using the term shark attack. And that actually has been on purpose.

SPEAKER_01 11:38

Yeah, so when you say attack, usually that word has really negative connotations. It kind of denotes something or someone planning this, kind of like lurking in the shadows and waiting for the perfect opportunity to strike and really cause harm to you. As one example of what that interpretation of that word is. And so it really makes it seem as if when you are describing shark bites or shark encounters, that sharks are purposely out to get people.

SPEAKER_02 12:13

That to me makes a lot of sense because at the end of the day, if the word shark attack is plastered all over the media, it's almost like fear mongering. You see the word attack, you immediately get defensive. You think of fear. Words have a lot of power, and Melissa definitely has a point.

SPEAKER_03 12:26

You're 100% right, and words do have power, so we've got to really lean into sort of the education around it all. So, what's the solution? If shark attacks are increasing due to climate change, like Ian discussed before, and people are getting injured, but culling isn't an option, so what do the experts say is the next step?

SPEAKER_02 12:44

As you said, it does all come back to education and learning how best to avoid shark interactions.

SPEAKER_04 12:50

So just for people to understand the marine environment more takes away some of that fear. My colleagues have done a whole bunch of really sweet statistical analysis to understand what is the shark weather. That is temperature, salinity, the time of year, the depth and location, to be able to say, um, to put traffic lights or to put you know red warning at certain locations at certain beaches. Because there are variations along the coast where um this would be prime condition for you know the risk of shark attack.

SPEAKER_02 13:24

So Ian's point is by educating about this shark weather, the hope is that we can prevent attacks in the future because the community will be more informed and then they'd be able to make informed decisions.

SPEAKER_03 13:34

Exactly. So if you wanted to go to Maruba Beach, for example, you might see the traffic light saying red, don't swim today. Maybe you can go to a different beach and you know, stay safe that way. It's all about education.

SPEAKER_02 13:43

Agreed. And then I think you have to wonder where that education is coming from and how we can access more of that information, especially when all the politicians are making most of the noise about it.

SPEAKER_03 13:53

Melissa's gonna speak about the strength of social media in educating people all about sharks.

SPEAKER_02 13:58

Yes, and obviously social media is one of the best ways to get information out there and really reach all the different demographics.

SPEAKER_01 14:05

Um, the first one is social media is definitely a great avenue for education. For example, with Sydney specifically having had a spate of shark bites quite close together, both in January and also now the most recent one. You know, there are certain people in positions of power that have been calling for something like a call as a kind of almost like a quick fix to help assuage people's fear around what is happening in the ocean. And social media really allows you to quickly write up a video and film it, edit it, put it out, or write up a carousel, or do anything and quickly combat that information.

SPEAKER_03 14:47

This is such a good strength of social media, being able to get those shark experts' opinions out there in the world quickly so people understand what the real academic information is.

SPEAKER_02 15:00

Okay, Ben, make it make sense for me.

SPEAKER_03 15:02

Alright, well, we're looking at both sides here. It's become clear that shark interactions aren't a simple issue.

SPEAKER_02 15:08

Yeah, people want to feel safe at the beach, especially after a serious injury's just hit the media.

SPEAKER_03 15:12

But at the same time, many experts argue that culling may not be an effective solution and instead could have unintended environmental consequences.

SPEAKER_02 15:20

And that leaves us with a bigger question. How can we share the oceans with sharks whilst maintaining environmental integrity and safety for beachgoers if culling isn't a feasible option?

SPEAKER_03 15:30

Exactly, and that's the big question here. And as Melissa and Ian both said, it's all about education. We want to use the power of social media to stay informed about when and when not to swim. This will reduce fear and therefore lower shark interactions.

SPEAKER_02 15:46

And now you're all caught up.

SPEAKER_03 15:48

Next week, we're talking all about the integration of AI and dating. And I might have downloaded this AI dating app. I'll let you know how it goes.

SPEAKER_02 15:55

See you next week.