Episode 5 - The Cancer of Self Doubt

This episode of The Long Burn marks a major milestone as Joel Malin returns from a brief hiatus following the birth of his son, Gideon Joseph Malin. The hosts use this life-altering event to pivot into a deep discussion on the "cancer of self-doubt" and imposter syndrome. Joel shares the raw reality of new fatherhood—from the "win" of a healthy nine-pound baby to the "loss" of navigating emergency C-section complications, preeclampsia, and the unpredictable learning curve of diaper changes. Meanwhile, Jonathan reflects on the "flywheel" effect of his growing medical practice but admits to the struggle of "stretching himself too thin." Together, they explore how self-doubt often surfaces right when someone is stepping into something bigger, emphasizing that confidence is built through action, not through waiting for 100% certainty.

Key Concepts: Overcoming the Mental Hurdles of Growth

• The Fallacy of Preparedness: Joel highlights that waiting for 100% confidence is actually waiting for "success" itself. Growth requires starting before you are ready—much like his story of installing 15 house windows with zero prior experience.
• Plato’s Cave & Reality: Using the , Joel explains how we often react to the "shadows" of our fears rather than the reality of our capabilities. By changing our perspective, we can see that our "historic data" usually proves we are capable of succeeding.
• The "Waffle" vs. "Spaghetti" Brain: The hosts humorously discuss cognitive styles:
  • Waffle Brain: Often attributed to men, where topics are compartmentalized into separate "squares" (focusing on one thing at a time).
  • Spaghetti Brain: Often attributed to women, where every thought and responsibility is interconnected, leading to high-speed multitasking.
• Surrender vs. Giving Up: They redefine "surrender" as acting in alignment with current reality (like a pivot in business or birth plans) rather than fighting against an outcome that the circumstances no longer support.
• The "One Thing" Strategy: To combat the "cookie jar" effect of grabbing too many opportunities at once, Jonathan advocates for focusing on one primary task in each life domain to build true momentum.

How do you personally distinguish between a "practical" fear and one that is just a "shadow" of imposter syndrome?

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:07

Hey, welcome back to the next episode of The Long Burns. This is Dr. Jonathan Wade here with Joel Mallen. Hello. We got some big news, Joel. Why don't you let them know?

SPEAKER_00 0:17

Uh well, we have a healthy nine-pound baby. Gideon Joseph Mallen was born on the 11th of March. So we took a little bit of a break. Um my wife had some, uh definitely had some scary complications, uh, labored for two days, then had to still do an emergency C-section, and I ended up getting pre-clampsia after that. So I mean it was it was kind of tough there for a little while, but she's doing much, much better, and she is just completely happy having this little cuddly baby in the house. And uh I've been working my tail off. So uh but all everybody everything's good. Everything's going good so far. That's excellent.

SPEAKER_01 0:50

Yeah. I always say I could never, I'm not tough enough to be a woman. I couldn't deal with all that stuff. That's just not for me. You know, I'll sit back to the back.

SPEAKER_00 0:57

They said something about the hormones, hormone change that women experience, you know, leading up to and following pregnancy, that they said it would age a man a hundred years or something like that. I don't doubt that. Yeah, I'm like, well, I feel that old already. So it's like, I don't know if I could deal with that. But uh yeah, so definitely just just wild seeing uh this little baby, and you're like, oh my gosh, that was in her belly like just a few minutes ago, you know. Yeah, it was cool. They they actually um I was back there with her when they did the C-section, and I got to see whenever they pulled Gideon out and everything, all covered in the blood and vernix and all that crazy stuff. Um, but it was definitely a wild experience. Um, definitely something I'll remember for a long time. I was glad they let me bring my camera back there and actually took a few pictures. Nothing crazy, but just to kind of document the experience and be able to refer back to it in later years and stuff. So that's good. Good deal.

SPEAKER_01 1:48

So that's that's certainly your win for the week, right? Oh, absolutely. So what do you think is the the learning lesson there?

SPEAKER_00 1:54

Uh so okay, so the win was you know having a new baby and now everybody being healthy. The the loss is uh getting peed on during diaper changes. Man, that thing is a an unpredictable water hose that uh just does what it wants, and I have tried everything that I can imagine to keep that pee from going everywhere, and I'm still trying to figure out a successful method, but we're getting better. We're getting better. Practice, practice. That's what it is. Also, you know, they tell you about meconium, like the first poo that comes out, and they're like, Oh, it's black. Okay, in my mind, I was like, Oh, okay, the first one, yeah. No, it's like the first week of poos that's like straight up tar. And then they don't tell you it turns into creole mustard, you know, that it starts to slowly turn into creole mustard before it becomes regular mustard. And then I'm sitting there changing a diaper, I'm like, that looks like creole mustard. Then I felt a little nauseous because I realized it looked like food. That was a weird realization, too. So yeah. Baby poop's always fun. Yeah, still dealing with it. But overall, uh very happy um and learning a lot and uh so far doing well. Our pediatrician said absolutely, no concerns for his health. He's doing very well. Um came out at nine pounds. Of course, they lose weight afterwards, and so he's already back up to like 915 or 815. So he's almost already back to his birth weight in the first um like two weeks. So my goodness. He's gonna be bigger than you. He might be. I mean, he's a bigger, he's a bigger baby than Christy or I were. And the pediatrician said, Well, you birthed a one one month-old baby, you know, because he was so big and he'd been in there over overdue and everything. So but yeah, I'm just glad that there's no health concerns now. We're dealing with family concerns, something we won't talk about on the podcast, but I mean, those all come about too when there's life changes going on. So that's right. Just take them in stride the best you can.

SPEAKER_01 3:42

Good deal. Good deal. Well, from my standpoint, um, I think our the win is is here in our medical practice. Um, we added a new nurse practitioner back in November, and and there was some you know ramp up period, but I really see that flywheel spinning um as it's taken off, and and she has really uh adopted the direct primary care model, loves it. Patients seem to love her. Um, it's great care. Um, and and we're just we're growing. And I couldn't be more thankful um that a decision I made has really paid off and and and seems to be working well. Uh and then I think from the the loss and the learn, I still think my problem is stretching myself too thin. I think I got my hand in in a bunch of different baskets, and uh sometimes I feel that I'm not uh able to give my all to these individual uh uh components of my life and and endeavors in my life. And so I'm working to do better, to to block out time, to make sure that I can concentrate a hundred percent on one task, one endeavor at a time, and and then when I'm done with that, move on to something separate versus trying to go down the fallacy of of multitasking.

SPEAKER_00 4:58

Well, I think that it's related to like the cookie jar analogy, where if you reach in and try to grab too many cookies of the cookie jar, your hand's stuck. That's right. Like you've got to kind of let go and and take it in smaller bites, you know, to be able to be free to go and do other things. Otherwise, your hand's just stuck in the cookie jar and you stay in one spot overcommitted to whatever it was that you're trying to squeeze every drop out of. Um I think that's really tough, you know, because you want to see something succeed before you let it go instead of saying, hey, I've got this spinning, I've got to let it go and manage this other stuff too. Um, I was grateful, like I got to do a whole lot of house projects before the baby got here. That helped me out tremendously because I can be relaxed caring for the baby instead of thinking, oh, I gotta fix this or I gotta repair that or get this done. And I mean that I don't feel that pressure right now, which is great. Sure. Just focus on dad time. Dad time.

unknown 5:46

That's right.

SPEAKER_00 5:47

Trying to, trying to.

SPEAKER_01 5:50

All right. So today we're going to dive into something that kind of goes along with with what I was talking about in terms of overcoming sort of that that cancer of self-doubt. Um, you know, I think every entrepreneur in in their journey, everyone chasing, you know, financial independence, anybody trying to trying to do something in life runs into that self-doubt. Am I good enough? Can I do this? Will this work out? What if it doesn't work out? And and so I I think talking about some of the the aspects and and and parts of our lives that that we've run into that and and continue to run into that, um, and and and how we've learned to sort of overcome that, make the best of it, and and then try to see see that glass half full, I think. I think it really starts with mentality. Um but you know, I I I'd like to start out kind of open with a little quote here that self-doubt doesn't show up when you're losing. It shows up when you're stepping into something bigger. And so I think right on that precipice of of change, the precipice of growth, you know, that's that's when the the what ifs or the should I um kind of kind of creeps into the mind.

SPEAKER_00 7:02

Yeah. Um I I think uh the idea of cancer of self-doubt is like the um, and we you and I've talked about this before, the um what's it? The um I am totally blanket on this right now. The one the imposter syndrome. There we go. You know, um totally was blanket on that. But yeah, the the imposter syndrome that you know you step into something that may be different or more challenging than what you're used to, and all of a sudden you're like, I don't know what I'm doing. And you're like, Yes, I do. Like I've been through way tougher stuff than this. You know, I've been through way more difficult stuff than this. And so, I mean, most people, and it's so crazy because most people don't have these glaring, absolute failures in their past. And so instead of being optimistic about new challenges, they completely forget all historic data that tells them that they can succeed, and then they then anticipate their failure, which it doesn't make any logical sense because it's not a logical process, it's an emotional process. Anything about self-doubt or or the imposter syndrome is completely grounded in an emotional response.

unknown 8:04

Right.

SPEAKER_01 8:05

No, I believe. Well, and and you were talking about that you you've built confidence in in prior things in life, whether they deal with what's in front of you or not, to show that you can. And I think all too often we get in that imposter syndrome or the analysis paralysis of wanting to be 100% certain or 100% ready, but but but you can't have confidence in something you've never done. So you kind of have to build up that mentality, that mind frame to to have the courage to just go.

SPEAKER_00 8:35

But it's it's wanting to start with success already. I mean, having 100% confidence and 100% preparedness, that's called success, you know? Right. When you've already figured it all out, like, yeah, like, but nobody starts there. I mean, I'm sure you can remember back when I was uh living there in Georgia working at the practice, I was renovating uh the house that I had, and the the house needed 15 new windows. I had never put a window in a day in my life, you know, and so I was like, I don't know if I can do this, but I was so interested to see if I could. You know, I was like, hey, I'm gonna get all the stuff that I think that I need and I'm gonna start doing this and I'm gonna see how it turns out. And so I'm always kind of like astounded at people who are afraid of home repairs because so let's say you think that maybe you can do it yourself. What's the worst case scenario if you can't? You got to get somebody to fix it. You still pay somebody else to do it. So I'm like, what's the loss there? I'm like, you can either learn something and get the tools associated with doing that function, or you can just give up from the beginning and pay somebody else. Now, if you don't have time to do it and you have to pay somebody else, I get that. But if it's something you want to challenge yourself, but then you won't just because you're afraid, that's a missed opportunity for growth. Yeah. And so, I mean, I had all kinds of crazy challenges. I had never run gas lines and water lines and certain things like that. Um, but you do plenty of research and you check codes and you double check, you know, pressure fittings and testing and everything else. And you're like, holy crap, I do know how to do this, you know. I remember um Taylor and his family, they were having like Thanksgiving dinner. He was like, Hey man, are you gonna come over and eat Thanksgiving dinner with us? And I was like, Well, I got to make sure I get this door up because there's a hole in the wall right now and I can't leave until it's sealed. And he was like, I've never had anybody tell me that excuse before about coming over for a dinner. He said, But with you, I believe it. So you know, it's it's all those things. It's like you're missing out on that that feeling of self-validation when you actually do succeed if you're if you're willing to try. And I I feel like it's addicting even.

SPEAKER_01 10:30

And you know, there's there's no way that you can get something 100% right the first time you do it. That that's never happened, you know, even to the most successful folks out there. They they're their their product number one was was not what the the end all be all was and not what kind of took them off and and helped them be successful. You know, I think we all kind of suffer from that that analysis paralysis, that fear, that internal fear telling us, you know, maybe you're not good enough or you're you're not capable, or we compare ourselves to others that have already been there, but not thinking, hey, they started in in my shoes. You know, I I know from our our little real estate investment.

SPEAKER_00 11:05

People don't use that. They don't they don't use that, they see where you're at and they want that, they don't think of where you came from.

SPEAKER_01 11:09

Yeah, yeah, yeah. The process of it all. You know, in in our real estate journey, I know that I was super, super analytical on our first property and just afraid to pull that trigger, afraid to make that offer. And and here we are right at a year later, and we're we're we're closing in the process of closing on property number three because I have that confidence, because I've seen what has happened in in making these decisions and and and the good, the bad, the ugly, where things can can can fall apart, but but also more importantly, where they succeed. And I think a lot of that trust and belief in in myself that hey, I've done this, I've been down this road. And and I think that's that's been the helpful part moving forward. But but yeah, we back up a year ago, and man, I was I was you know sweating bullets thinking about putting a down payment down or even just making the offer that they might accept it.

SPEAKER_00 11:59

Um, you know, so I know now I'm stuck with them.

SPEAKER_01 12:01

Right, right. Oh Lord, what have I done? You know, um, you know, and and all too often I think we we overanalyze. Um, you know, we it's not right, the time's not ready, you know, or I'm not ready, and I'm not really sure that you can't you can't never be ready. You know, you've got you've got to take that first step. Um trust in yourself, bet on yourself. Um, you know, when when we started Orchard Health, uh if I'd have listened to the masses, we'd have never done it. That was coming from from Candace, that was coming from family, that was coming from other people. I knew this is not gonna work in this little town. And and here we are eight years later, uh rocking and rolling, kicking button, taking names, growing the practice, and and you know, I believed in myself and what I could do. Um the the old adage of you know, being an entrepreneur is like jumping out of an airplane and and building the parachute on the way down is so true once you've lived it and and to trust yourself to build that that parachute so you don't go kasplat on the ground.

SPEAKER_00 13:07

And so I remember working with you where you know I was the the psychology therapist, whatever, in the house, and then you were the medical provider. And it's funny because a lot of times, you know, the the clients that are going to therapy are dealing with significant health issues. And, you know, I'm not a doctor, have that kind of experience. I've been exposed to a lot of that uh environment. And you know, I know some general things, but even feeling like, oh, well, I don't know, doesn't help you to actually put ideas out there. Like some of the clients that I've seen that were experiencing, you know, some mental health challenges, it was because of a thyroid disorder. It was because of low testosterone, it was because of, you know, undiagnosed fibromyalgia or some autoimmune disease or something like that. And it was because of the promptings that I gave to them that they then were like, hey, well, let me go talk get myself, let me get some blood work done, talk to a doctor and ask them if this is something they can screen for. And lo and behold, you know, instead of them feeling guilty about, I don't know why I can't be happy, what's wrong with me? I'm a terrible person. Oh, something's wrong with me biologically. Oh, wow. Well, now I don't feel guilty about that. And so, I mean, I I try not to have the self-doubt of voicing an opinion or a concern or an idea. Because here's the thing, I could say my opinion or idea all day long. Nobody has to do anything with it. But if I keep my mouth shut, you know, that that information is potentially never on the table.

SPEAKER_01 14:30

Oh, yeah. And there's likely somebody else that's thinking it or or would would think it's an amazing idea. And you're you're bound to find find somebody that's gonna believe in you or want to believe with you.

SPEAKER_00 14:41

Yeah. Well, people just want to figure out what the source of the problem is, you know, and that's one of the things about diagnostics in um mental health is that you know, there are DSM5 diagnoses and it'll say, if not better described by, you know, this health issue, or if not better described by a substance use problem or something like that. And so, you know, whenever you can identify something that's not a psychological dysfunction or just a problem with the way someone thinks or acts, that deprograms a lot of the, again, the doubt that people feel about their own capacity, that their body's working against some. Just like the self-doubt of like, you know, we we always try to form a plan. You know, we're talking about wanting guaranteed success at the beginning. During Christie's pregnancy, she went to a I think it's a, I forget what the qualifier is, but it's a chiropractor that deals specifically with pregnant women. She went to the chiropractor consistently, she went to her uh female doctor consistently, she did all this stuff, she did her stretches, she did her body position, she did all this other stuff, and still was unable to have a natural birth, you know, and so it was really hard for her in the hospital just to let go of the plan that she wanted, you know, and so she admitted she's like, I went longer than I should have and endured that longer than I should have because it was hard to not pursue the plan that I wanted. And so I had to gently kind of tell her, hey, listen, we've got to act in accordance with the way things are, not with the way we want things to be.

SPEAKER_02 16:07

Sure.

SPEAKER_00 16:07

And that expectation. Absolutely. And so it was really hard of her to let go of that. I can absolutely understand that because this is not the picture she had in her brain. And uh, you know, even going back to the hospital because she was sick with preclampsia, you know, she's got no history of high blood pressure or anything like that. And so it's like, well, how did this happen? There and the doctors and the nurses, hey, we'd love to be able to explain it to you. We don't know. We don't know what caused it, we don't know why it happens. It just sometimes does, you know. And so you can stay committed to your ideal circumstance, and that will absolutely contribute to failure. Yes. Or you can say, hey, this isn't working. You know, if you're trying to build the parachute as the analogy you gave and realize that you're ending up with a sailboat, that sailboat's not gonna help you mid-air, you know, and so you've got to learn how to you've got to start over and try to build that parachute once more and realize that a sailboat's not gonna help you.

unknown 16:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:57

I think back to some of the most, you know, uh frustrating times in my life. It's when I had had this expectation and then the reality was totally different. And and you know, in in my less mature days, younger days, it did. It got the best of me. I mean, I would get frustrated and angry and and just so pissed off for for days and weeks on end. And as I've gotten older, I realized all I have to do is pivot. Just just make a pivot, accept yeah, what reality is, and and let's let's walk through that door that was opened rather than stand in front of the one that was closed because my expectations weren't met.

SPEAKER_00 17:31

Right. Um, and I can I kind of relate that to the term surrender. People think that you know, surrender is giving up. But if you think about it in terms of, let's say, you're a prisoner of war or something like that, you're essentially joining the other side. Maybe you're not on their team, but you know, you can't say, no, I'm staying on my side. They're gonna kill you, you know? So you have to act in alignment with what's gonna happen. And so that's what surrender is. It's saying, let me accept what's happening around me and act in alignment with what's already happening versus me trying to push for what I want, because that's where the real battle is. The real battle is you trying to force what you want in a circumstance that won't ever support that outcome.

SPEAKER_01 18:08

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I when we have medical students come through here and and they're just nervous as all get out about, you know, the match and residency and and how's life gonna pan out, I I try to take a step back and let them know, look, when I reflect on on my medical career and and being back in medical school years and years ago, you know, I had those expectations. And here's how life's gonna be. And that's not at all what happened, and I had to kind of surrender to what what the plan was for me. And I ended up in the perfect residency. I ended up in the in the perfect situation where I am now. Was it an easy road? No, we've talked about that. It's bumpy, it's it's fraught with with frustrations and sadness and and pain. Uh, but there's the good times, and and it's it's everybody ended up where they're supposed to be. So that's what I try to reflect with them is is you know, you just you you put in the work and you will end up where you're supposed to end up.

SPEAKER_00 19:05

So it's funny, I actually think that other people can be big catalysts for helping us to overcome self-doubt. There was a quote, and I may not get it exactly right, by Albert Einstein. It says, you cannot solve a problem with the same logic that you got into it with. You know, like you've got to find a way to have a different perspective, a different train of thought, or access somebody else's perspective to help you look at a problem from the different way. Um, you know, it's it's the idea. Are you familiar with Plato's cave analogy? No, tell me about it. Okay, so Plato's cave analogy, and again, this is gonna be very, very quick, but um you got these people living down in this cave, and then you got the people that are outside the cave, and there's a fire in the cave. And so the people outside the cave are just seeing these shadows and thinking that these shadows are what are living in the cave. They can't see anything different. But then the people down in the cave, they see people on the outside, you know, and they see the the silhouette of these people against the light outside the cave, thinking that that's reality, you know. But in reality, the that what's happening, what they're actually viewing is the silhouette or the shadow of something. They're not actually looking at what it actually is. Because as you've seen before, depending on where the light's placed, a shadow can look enormous, right? You know, or it can look very small, you know. And so there's a lot more in that Plato's Cave analogy, which I think is fantastic. It's crazy, it's such an old analogy, but it just helps us to know are we looking at reality or are we looking at the projected fears of what we believe something is or can be or are afraid of it being or becoming? Um, and that that really makes us take a step back to find is there a different position that I can look at this? It's like the same, uh, the same way of um, you know, the practice of gratitude. Um, they have done research and they said that people who do suffer from depression and anxiety have a very realistic, pragmatic approach or perception of what their life is. And you could say, well, that's a good thing, right? Why are they depressed? Because is it always helpful to only look at the facts or do we hold on to a sense of hope? Do we look for a sense of this is eventually going to be better? You know, because anything that we start, there's gonna be a time where this is eventually going to be successful. It's gonna feel easier, it's gonna feel more relaxing if you can't, and we talked about this before, if you can't engage that thought process in that moment, you'll give up. Right. And so, so this idea of sure, maybe you are practical and seeing things as they are. My question is, does it help you? You know, and this goes back to attribution theory and things we talked about before. Like it is more helpful for us to choose to find things that we're grateful for. So, like with all of Christy's health issues during the delivery and stuff like that, I told her, I said, you know, I know this is not at all how you wanted this to come through, that this is not the plan that we had or anybody would want to happen. I said, But as bad as it sounds, your body is far more able to manage this trauma than our child. Would be. Right. And so he came out completely healthy, not a single problem and everything else. And she had a lot of hardship. People are like, well, that's not fair. Well, who said it was going to be? You know? And so, you know, a part of a piece of gratitude that we can have is that, you know, this baby comes out 100% healthy, and then she has to bear the the health har hazards or hardships along the way. So that maybe the baby doesn't have to cope with that, with a compromised immune system. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:28

No, absolutely. I mean, I I think I think her situation was was if it had to happen, that's the way for it best to happen after after Gideon was was here for sure. If you'd have told her that a week ago, whenever she was uncomfortable, she might she might not want to hear that. Right. Absolutely. Well, you you touched on some things where where it really showed, I mean, the the complexity of of life, of decisions, of situations. And I think when when we try to try to put all these puzzle pieces together, that complexity I think I think grows self-doubt. I I think that really feeds into it. Um and and that gets back to kind of my my loss for the week is all this multitasking. Um and and so I've I've really tried to figure out that that one thing, which happens to be the book I'm listening to now. But what is that one thing that I can focus on in Orchard Health? What is this one thing that I can focus on in in our our retirement real estate endeavor? What is this one thing I can focus on as a husband, as a dad, as an entrepreneur in in every aspect, and and give my 100% attention to that, but not all at one time. I can't do the one thing in every aspect, but one thing at a time to really break it down. Um and I think that that builds that momentum, that confidence, all the things that that you need to get things done, to be successful.

SPEAKER_00 23:57

Well, and I don't think it's a one size fits all because you you have people that they feel accomplished when they've they've done multiple things. And then there's some people that they feel accomplished when they've done one thing well. You know, it's a quantity over quality thing. And so I may have given the example before about waffle brains and spaghetti brains. Do we talk about that? How men and women are different? Probably not. You look like you're shaking your head. So they there's a theory they say that men have waffle brains. There's a specific compartment for every different topic or every different skill set that they have. And when they're in that compartment, that's the only compartment that they're in. And so, but women have spaghetti brains that they'll say, Oh, I need to paint the kitchen door. And that reminds me before I leave to get the paint that I've got to feed the baby and the baby's got to be fed, and the pediatrician appointment is next week. And I still got to call Teresa because she was asking how he was doing. And then, oh, by the way, my mom's birthday's next. And it's like all these things in their brains, they're all connected. And to guys, we're like, what the hell are you talking about? It's not in the it's not in the waffle compartment. Like, I can't connect, I can't even think about that right now, you know? And so um, like I even told Christy, you know, with all this stuff going on, you know, she got back from the hospital and she's trying to learn how to use the pump for the breast milk and everything. And she also needs to feed the baby and then needs a diaper change and then ask if I could go get this bag and ask her. And I told her, I said, Christy, I feel very overwhelmed when you ask me four, five, six things all at the same time. You know, please give it, don't give it to me on rapid fire. I feel very overwhelmed because then I feel like my body needs to split into separate pieces and go do each individual thing. I'm just not good at that. I can do one thing well. Yeah. And I I like doing that one thing. I know, I know that it's a luxury. We don't always have that luxury of doing one thing at a time, but as much as possible, I want to try to manage things so I can try to do one thing well at a time. Because I'll even tell her, I say I can do one thing well or I can do 10 things shitty. You tell me which one you want. Yeah, you know.

SPEAKER_01 25:46

No, absolutely. I I think that goes right in line with that. And then if you do those 10 things shitty, well, that doesn't help with confidence.

SPEAKER_00 25:54

And you've got to be you be able to be aware and acknowledge and own what works for you. You know, like uh if if you are an emotionally needy person, if you constantly feel guilty and apologize for that, well, you're invalidating something that is a legitimate need in your own personality. Instead of saying, you know, there's times where I am kind of needy, you know, you can just let me know whenever it feels overwhelming to you. You own it, you call it out, and then you create a pathway of how you navigate it. Instead of just saying, I shouldn't be this way, I shouldn't be this way. That's where that's what leads to self-doubt is you criticizing everything about your own personality instead of saying, How can I make this work for me? How can I make this work in this relationship? How can I make it work during this challenging time or something like that? Instead of literally just wanting to be somebody that you're not, like that's never gonna lead to self-confidence or fulfillment.

SPEAKER_01 26:43

Yeah. Yeah. And it's that that that internal voice, that in internal confidence that you know, it's it's like the devil and the angel on your shoulders, and it's it's not buying into the you can't. You know, I I I like to think, and I I think Candace calls me an optimist, and I think I truly am. I try to see the best in everybody and the best in every situation. I try to envision myself succeeding in in all the all the things that I I try to do because I don't want to doubt myself. And I've I've learned through my life that that if I uh believing in myself is is heck, that's 50% of the battle right there. Um, because then good ideas will happen, action will take place, and that flywheel just takes off. And then a lot of times, you know, you can sit back and and watch the fruits of your of your labor, but most of that labor starts internally.

SPEAKER_00 27:33

Yeah. Yeah. So I mean, self-doubt can, I mean, being on the you know, beginning stages of parenthood and everything else, some of the self-doubt can be future fears projected into the present. You know, it's things you're worried about coming down the road, which makes you feel insecure in the moment, even though that challenge isn't even here yet. You know? Um, like so. If I'm thinking about a college fund for Gideon already, it's like we're not even there yet. You know, like we're so far from that at this moment. I'm not saying it's not something we're thinking about, but I shouldn't allow myself to be overwhelmed at that because that attention to that future topic is going to pull me away from present need.

unknown 28:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:09

And that's that's a big problem for a lot of people. Sure.

SPEAKER_01 28:12

Well, you know, and it's it's the I think the goal is to not let that that that self-doubt, that lack of self-trust make decisions for you. You know, because then we lean into that negativity, we lean into the what ifs, uh, you know, as opposed to the what if it does work? You know, what if it does succeed? And and so yeah, I think it's overwhelming to think about a uh a 529 plan for a for for a little bitty baby, but the fact that you know one day you will start doing that and and think about it a lot sooner than than I did. So that's that's wonderful for you.

SPEAKER_00 28:53

Oh, I I'll tell you another win. I'll tell you another win. Okay. This just came up today. So um for Christmas last year, I brought I bought Christy a digital calendar that we have in the house. And it comes with an app that has has things like grocery lists that has daily tasks, weekly tasks, and has all this other stuff. And at first she's like, we don't need that. Like, uh, I don't use that, you know. And she would make a mental note of something or maybe write it on a piece of paper. And so she would make a grocery list on a piece of paper, then go to the grocery store, forget the paper. So what does she get? Whatever she can think about, you know. That's right. But she started referring to the calendar and the app and everything else that we both can see what we're both putting in. And today she was like, Wow, this really is helpful. Like, I'm starting to get better at putting things on the app and it's right there whenever I need it. I'm like, yes, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:40

You you built a system, you've built a system that you both can work with as a from a family unit and it works.

SPEAKER_00 29:46

And that's just the way my brain works. Like, if there's a system and I realize flaws in the system, well, then I want to build a new system. Yeah. You know, and I've I've been doing, you know, trying to maintain task lists and daily tasks and stuff like that for so long on my phone or some other digital format, it works for me, you know, and she can see that I'm not typically ever stressed or pressured when something needs to be done because I've been looking at it, I've been seeing it, I've been reminded of it, I know it's coming, you know? And so if we can both be a little bit better about that and working together as a team, all you're doing is reducing that stress because stress in any given situation, especially stress that pervades every situation, is another huge source of self-doubt because you stop trusting yourself to actually deliver on things you commit yourself or someone else to.

SPEAKER_01 30:32

Yeah. No, I agree. And I I think if if we we put the self-doubt uh into a framework of of trust and focus, yeah, you're right. We we we shrink that doubt, we shrink that decision, we we look for that one thing or those few things that we can tackle that will build that momentum and then act, jump out the airplane, then figure out the parachute. You you build the evidence, the confidence as you put it together, as you see small wins from the little tasks that you are completing, confidence grows, self-trust, it compounds on itself. And then you look back and you go, man, look how far I've come.

SPEAKER_00 31:11

Every time you achieve, you've created a new threshold.

unknown 31:14

Right.

SPEAKER_00 31:14

Every time you endure a challenge or get or see something through to success or completion, you now have a new bandwidth or a new threshold of what you're capable of. And when you continually see that increasing threshold, you you know, your ability to trust yourself goes through the roof because then you're just like, man, I really can accomplish big stuff. I really can do hard things, I really can see things finally succeed. You know, and a lot of people, but but they don't take that mental inventory of it, which we referred to before of just sitting back and say, hey, that you know, I'll ask the clients what are 10 things you did well today. Yeah. And they can't, they can't list it. They're like, Well, it's not that late in the day. I'm like, you'd be shocked how easy this is.

SPEAKER_02 31:52

Sure.

SPEAKER_00 31:52

You know? Oh, yeah. Just little things that compound over time makes such a huge difference.

SPEAKER_01 31:58

Yeah. Well, I I think I think that ought to help some folks that maybe are struggling or maybe are afraid to start that entrepreneurial journey, start, you know, uh to make a decision or work towards that life that they they aim to achieve or the things that they want to do. Um and I think knowing that others have been there is important. And and not seeing that that that final product, you know, uh of the comparisons, but realizing it's it's the journey, it's the process, and it all has to take start with that first first step. And a lot of times that's internally and then it's physically.

SPEAKER_00 32:35

Well, and uh, I personally like the idea of saying, well, what if I fail? Okay, well, what if I do fail? What would that look like? Could I tolerate that? Could I bounce back from that? Could I manage that? You know, and let's say it's a financial endeavor where well, I don't want to claim bankruptcy. Well, okay, would you if you had to? You know, if things did go that bad, and would you come back from that? Like people won't entertain their what ifs, they shy away from them, they run from them instead of actually solving them or resolving them into something that's a manageable outcome, even if it's not the preferred outcome.

SPEAKER_01 33:05

Sure. But then I I would counter that with what if you succeed? And if if the success is greater than the risk, you know, then it may be worthwhile. Absolutely. And I I think that's that mind frame shift, you know, to to do that that comparison of of of the risks and benefits and and realizing that, man, you know, yeah, this could go bad, but damn it, what if it goes well?

SPEAKER_00 33:29

Right. Well, it's the same thing with having kids. Like, you know, do you know that your kids are gonna love you and want to be around you in another 10 years? Sure. Yeah. I'm sure everybody's like, of course they will. You don't know that. Right. Yeah. There's no good and you there's too many, you know, factors at play that would influence that outcome. You know, but everything we're doing on a daily basis influences what that outcome is gonna be. You know, sure, people can make up minds for themselves, but we have influence in every relationship, and that influence should not be um abandoned. That influence should be something that's constantly we're aware of of how we're influencing relationships and situations and people and our own success on a daily basis. That's right. All right.

SPEAKER_01 34:10

Well, you got any final thoughts for our folks as we start to wrap up.

SPEAKER_00 34:13

So yeah, for y'all experiencing self-doubt, stop it. That's it. You know, just cut it out. That'd have been a real short podcast. That was it. I don't know. Just stop it, you know, do better, you know, and then see things through. But no, I mean, in uh in raw reality, people are you're you're capable of uh much bigger things than you even believe that you are, and you won't find that out until you try. And so don't be afraid of taking risks. Yeah, you know, there is a risk associated with every success.

SPEAKER_01 34:42

That's right. And I I think we'll make a shameless plug here. Uh, if you find this stuff helpful, these are the sort of things that that we really want to dive into with fire health. Yes, it's about controlling your health, and and and maybe you've got blood pressure, diabetes, whatever, but all of that, like Joel was saying, can can have some some manifestations emotionally, can potentially hold you back from making decisions. And that's why we want to be here to support not only your physical health, but your mental health and self-confidence. That's what this is about. We've we've faced those struggles, we've we've overcome some, we still face them, but but we want others to know that like you have a resource, you have someone that will give you some insight, maybe brutal at times, um, but wants to ultimately see you achieve what you've put your mind to.

SPEAKER_00 35:36

And I hear the baby crying in the background now. There we go. That's the sign, right? That's right. All right, you guys, thank you all for joining us on another episode of The Long Burn. Um, hopefully, I will have a lot more blunders and parenthood to share on this podcast as I am learning as well. And I'm casting aside self-doubt, believing that I'm gonna be a fantastic dad as I am wearing the hat right now, and Jonathan can attest to that fact.

SPEAKER_01 35:59

That is perfect, and you are gonna be an amazing dad.

SPEAKER_00 36:02

All right, you guys. Y'all have a great week, and we will catch you on the next episode of The Long Burn. See you, Jonathan. See you later. Bye.