Episode 6 - The Family is the First Team

In this episode of The Long Burn, counselor Joel Malin and Dr. Jonathan Wade explore the concept of "the family as the first team," emphasizing that personal and professional success depends on domestic alignment. The hosts open with personal "wins and losses," ranging from Joel’s successful fishing trip and frustrations with insurance hiking to Jonathan’s family visit to his son’s college, which included a humorous mishap involving a black eye during a game of wiffle golf. Transitioning to the core topic, Jonathan reflects on the eight-year journey of his medical practice, Orchard Health, detailing how he secured his wife Candace’s "buy-in" by framing the business as a way to prioritize family time over grueling hospital shifts. They discuss the necessity of "counting the cost" and establishing a family operating agreement—setting firm boundaries, such as "no-business" zones after 6:30 PM and monthly retreat nights, to ensure that the drive for professional sustainability doesn't come at the expense of household harmony.

Key Takeaways from "The Family as the First Team"

• The Power of Buy-In: Success in a new endeavor requires more than just permission; it requires a shared vision. Jonathan noted that involving his wife directly in the business allowed their complementary skills—his "big ideas" and her "boots-on-the-ground" integration—to flourish.
• Defining the "Operating Agreement": To prevent burnout and resentment, families should set explicit boundaries. This includes "work-free" hours and identifying which roles each member will play to support the collective goal.
• Managing the "Nasty Nelson" of Risk: Just like the surprise point in pickleball (the "Nasty Nelson"), business risks are inevitable. The hosts suggest viewing these not as deterrents, but as opportunities for growth and learning.
• Intentional Disconnection: Joel and Jonathan highlight that work is never truly "done." Building the skill of living in that tension—choosing to stop working to be present with family—is vital for long-term health.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:07

Hello everybody and welcome to another episode of The Long Burn. As always, I have Dr. Jonathan Wade with me. So hello, Jonathan. Hello, Jonathan. I mean hello. Hey, there he is. And this is Joel Mallon, uh, counselor over in uh Jacksonville, Florida. Uh just join in for another topic today. And uh we are gonna start off with our topic for uh this episode is going to be the family is the first team. Uh but true to form, we're going to kind of talk about kind of what's been going on since the last time we recorded. We had to kind of pivot a little bit last time uh just because of some internet outages and things like that. Uh so we'll say some wins. Um I actually got to go fishing yesterday. New dad and now fishing. Look at you. I know it was awesome. Like Christy was cool with um saying that she would take the baby and let me have some time outdoors. I just I do so much better when I have vitamin D from the good old son. And so uh it was awesome to be able to be outdoors for a few hours yesterday. Caught a really nice size, probably about five-pound bass. That was awesome. Uh, so that felt like a good win. Um, loss is trying to figure out how to consolidate some of the bills. It is so frustrating. Like, because calling and saying, okay, what's the best rate for homeowners insurance? Well, they all have the best rate at the beginning. Right. You know, and if you're trying to get the best rate on uh on consolidating uh auto insurance or something like that, oh well, they all have the best rate. Like we we went with progressive, and yes, I will absolutely throw them under the bus. But we got a quote from them, and then like a couple days after we had started the policy, they're like, Oh, you know, we reviewed it and we we changed your policy amount and everything else. So, I mean, it doubled. Like, I'm not talking about like 20, 30 bucks, they doubled what our monthly payments were, and I'm just like, well, bump this noise, I'll go back with USAA because at least they were up front with what their pricing was. So um man, this just so frustrating because it's like everybody's out to find your pot of money and put their hands in it, you know. Oh, insurance is just legalized gambling at some point, you know. Dude, it's like like just living healthy and stuff. Like I've I've rarely, if ever, needed to use health insurance. And I'm like, I I've actually um I was talking to Christy about um auto insurance. So based on our rate for our auto insurance, I factored in because I've been paying auto insurance since I was 16 and driving, and and just to estimate an average of how much we would pay per month and everything else. $40,000. I've bought a whole different vehicle just paying in auto insurance that I've never used. I've never been at fault in an accident. And so I've only I was hit by a uh it was a hit and run uh driver who rear-ended another vehicle that hit me in Atlanta and they just took off. So I had to do a claim that back in 21. And then uh September of 25, I had somebody who cut me off uh crossing diagonally on a four-way intersection, and they just weren't paying attention and I'm slowing down. I got the boat that I'm pulling with the truck, and I just couldn't stop fast enough. Um, but they were definitely in the wrong, so their uh insurance, which was progressive, uh, paid that claim. So I'll tell I will take your money progressive. You're not getting any of mine. But uh I mean it's just it's crazy that if you're a safe driver and and you're not at fault, um, you're still paying through the butt. And they they up your insurance even if you weren't the one who caused the wreck. I'm like, that's the why are you punishing me for what somebody else did? So or animals. I I feel like that's getting into a rant zone now.

SPEAKER_01 3:30

So we we had some deer deer issues down here in South Georgia a couple of years ago, and like months to a day, I hit one and Preston hit one, and I tried to explain to the agent that we didn't aim for the deer, but it didn't seem to matter, you know.

SPEAKER_00 3:42

I mean, did you get the deer's you know, insurance card or anything?

SPEAKER_01 3:45

Yeah, that's right. Yeah, that it was a hit and run. They left.

SPEAKER_00 3:47

Yeah, that jerk didn't even have insurance, it's an uninsured pedestrian or whatever. It's crazy. But yeah, just trying to find ways to consolidate expenses, just to be smart about things. That's we're since we have the time at home, we're trying to find some ways to do that. And um, you know, it feels good to do it, but man, I I tell you, I just feel exhausted after two or three of those calls. I'm just like, I'm done. I think I'm done for today.

SPEAKER_01 4:10

Well, you're doing the right thing. I think when you have a baby, you start evaluating a lot of those things and taking the time to look into stuff because life's different now. Yeah, that's super important.

SPEAKER_00 4:20

Well, it's like trying to get the 100,000 mile maintenance on her Subaru. Um, I we took it someplace and they gave us a quote. And I started looking into the quotes they gave, and I'm just like, Gosh, that feels high. So I mean, uh other people's time is worth you more than yours, in case you didn't know. Um so um, but but they were upcharging, they were doubling the price of some of the the uh parts for the vehicle for the maintenance and even tripling it and some of the stuff they quoted me on. And so some of that I looked at and I was like, you know what, I can handle doing that, so I'm not gonna have them do it. And if I've got the time off, I would much rather do it myself than be out another $1,500, which is what it would be. That that $1,500, obviously, my labor doesn't cost me anything, but the parts that they would have quoted for was like $750. And I think I got it from O'Reilly's for like $200. Yeah. So I mean it was it was ridiculous. Just pay yourself the difference. Yeah. Yeah. I'll make a I'll make a whole fun day out of it. You know, just camp out the driveway and just fix the parts. So anyway, so we got that figured out. But uh yeah, just trying to find ways to to streamline things. I told Christy the goal is that we get this done now and we have this you know bank of free time off, and then um hopefully we don't have to worry about some of this stuff for at least a few years. Yeah, that's the goal. That's what I would like. Good deal. And what wins and losses for you, man? Yes.

SPEAKER_01 5:37

What's new? So we went up and and saw the oldest in at uh college at Truett McConnell this weekend, and we we met the serious girlfriend's family. And that was fantastic. They were great. We went to dinner Friday night, good conversation. Um mom and dad are super sweet, dad's got a good sense of humor. Uh, she's got two younger sisters who are who are great too. They added to to some good one-liners during dinner, which was was fun to kind of razz him and go back and forth. And and then went to the friends and family day at the school on uh on Saturday, which was fun to get out and see them again and whatnot. And I think that leads us into the, I guess the loss, bless it. They were out there playing some kind of wiffle golf on the lawn and he pressing reared back and hit the ball right into Molly's youngest sister's eyeball. So this makes her eye on the ball. Yeah, apparently. Well, and so now two of the three sisters have had black eyes from Preston since he inadvertently elbowed Molly several months ago when they were moving something in the dorms. So I told him, let's try not to give the third sister a black eye. So I don't know. That's a home run if he gets all time. I don't know. I'm not sure that's the home run he wants. So, but it's uh it was good. It was good times. No, every everybody was okay. Um, but it was good. We got to watch them sing in their little their little uh praise and worship band, and and uh it was it was a good time overall with just that little bitty hiccup there at the end.

SPEAKER_00 7:02

So as a doctor, can you like use that thing where you look at it, you look at the black eye, you're like, Oh, you're fine, you're fine, you don't you're good, you don't need anything.

SPEAKER_01 7:10

I was I was there for for moral support. Her parents were over there too. Her her dad's a a physical therapist, and so you know, and so they they had her under control. I think it scared her more than that's not a great place to get hit anyway, and I th she'd calm down. Um speaking of getting hit by a ball, like have you ever played pickleball? Yeah, and I think that's what they were. I think they were like the kind of like it's like a wiffle ball, kind of hard plastic, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 7:35

Are they did it have like uh strips that were open in it? No, it had holes. Holes. Well, yeah, it does sound like a racket ball or a uh pickleball. So anyway, I was playing pickleball with a buddy of mine last Friday. Uh and so he hit me with the ball and he was like, that's my point. I'm just like, no, it's not. I was like, I was out of bounds and you hit me. Come to find out in the game of pickleball, there's a thing called a nasty Nelson that you can if you're getting if you get hit by the serving opponent's ball, that is the the that is their point.

SPEAKER_01 8:03

I'm like, no, it's aimed for your opponent. That's the strategy.

SPEAKER_00 8:07

Seriously, like you can just just whack them. It's I so I was like, dude, so it's like tennis and ping pong and dodgeball all combined. And he was like, Yeah, pretty much. And I was like, that's crazy. That's like added insult to injury. It's like not only did you get smacked with this ball, but I also get a point. I'm just like, that sucks. Like, oh so I learned that. That was that was fun. I'll have to remember that if I ever play pickleball on nasty Nelson. Yeah, you should try it sometime. Yeah, and you can nasty Nelson someone of your own.

SPEAKER_01 8:35

That's great.

SPEAKER_00 8:36

Yeah. So, all right, so let's just move into the topic. So we're talking about the family is the first team, and I would say you better than anybody, uh, because I've never done an endeavor the size that you have, um, to start a business, start a practice and everything else, and trying to navigate how to get family on board and stuff like that. But what I can remember doing was years ago, back in 2012, I think whenever I was about to start my master's program, I remember talking to uh my ex-wife and just telling her, listen, hey, I'm gonna be very busy. I'm gonna be working full time, going to school full time. I was still renovating the house in Chattanooga, Tennessee. And, you know, I just said, hey, this is what it's gonna look like. You know, at any anytime that you're trying to start an endeavor, it's very important to count the cost and set the tone as much as possible for what it may or may not look like. And so um, I did that to the best of my ability, and I think that helped me so much. I mean, it doesn't mean it was it was easy or doesn't mean it mean that she always liked it or anything like that, but I tried to do the best that I could based on my understanding because anytime you start something, I mean, how much stuff happened that you didn't anticipate starting a business? Right. Oh, absolutely. Yeah, there's always going to be curveballs. Right. Like, how do you get someone on board with something you don't even know yet? You know? And so it's more like everybody's having to pivot in the moment. Um, so so what about you? Just any initial thoughts about like how do you get that family buy-in? Because if your family's the first team and they're not on board, how do you make that a successful? You don't you don't want to lose your family in the midst of trying to start something that actually benefits the family?

SPEAKER_01 10:13

Well, and I I think that falls right into place with when we went down the direct primary care route. Um Orchard Health originated as as uh direct doc back on April 1st. So tomorrow will be eight years of being in the direct primary care world. Yeah. And uh when I approached Candace about uh kind of that that option of starting the practice and and and business venture, uh oh yeah, she she met it with very much uh was uh was opposed to it. This is not gonna work, this this won't work in in a little bitty town, you know, this is kind of crazy. Um and and it it took a lot of convincing um to show her. Now, part of the alternative was at the time uh, you know, I was gone weeks at a time from the house working hospitalist shifts, ER shifts, gone for 36 hours at a time. I I I was not home to the point that that she had a security system installed because I was never there and we had the kids and and whatnot. So I I think that sort of my leverage point there was hey, this is the opportunity for me to be home. You know, yes, we'll take a pay cut. Yes, there'll be some some major life changes that we will have to adjust to, but I'll be around. And so and then involving her in the practice. I mean, there for the first few years, it was her and I up there, you know, managing stuff, talking to new people, talking to current patients, filling meds, do it, doing all the things. Um and and I think we enjoyed that that work life camaraderie. Um, but I I think ultimately, you know, ha having there be a benefit for her, for the family, that this was not just about me wanting to go out and you know, pursue a life passion. There was something that was more grounded in that first family team of being present.

SPEAKER_00 12:04

Well, and and it wasn't just, hey, please support me in this. I mean, she was right there next to you. I mean, y'all were, you know, being at home together all the time, being at work all day long and everything else. And so it wasn't just that you needed her buying, you literally needed her presence and her work ethic and all the things that came with that. I imagine it's gotta be more challenging than just someone like, oh yeah, cool, go good luck, you know, hope it works out. You know, I'll support you. Right.

SPEAKER_01 12:26

Oh, yeah. No, no, no, absolutely. I mean, she she very much compliments me both both in our marriage and in our business, as is kind of being that that integrator. I can I can have lots of good visions all the time, but she is very much a boots on the ground, kind of get things done. Here's how we're gonna set up systems and and everything. And I really appreciate that because you know, my head often stays in the in the clouds at times thinking about what we can do, and she says, here's how we're gonna do it. So um, yeah, I I think that that that partnership in that, both you know, at work and at home was was crucial for that that working out the way it has.

SPEAKER_00 13:00

So, how do you get that vision of the practice of the business? How did you get that into concrete terms?

SPEAKER_01 13:07

Um yeah, I I I learned about the the business um at a at an AAFP American Academy of Family Physicians Conference uh back in 2017. She kind of AAFP. That's right, kind of kind of walked out of the Dr. Brian Forrest over in North Carolina, his his talk and was like, man, I really want to do this. I had I had learned a little bit about DPC in the past, got to hear him talk, and was like, man, this is this is it. And um so really through a lot of conversations, reading, uh talking to people that were doing it, which was a lot smaller movement at the time than it is now, um, and just just trying to figure it out. I mean, you know, we still are figuring it out eight years later. Um, and you were here for a period of time, you saw a lot of the changes um uh you know that we had made both from the medical side, from the the operation side and and the good, bad, the ugly of of Candace and I trying to figure some things out as we grew and added employees, uh patients grew, and and so um, you know, i I think just like just like a family, just like a marriage, I mean it's fluid. Uh that it's a business is the same way. And so I think a lot of people, they often will tell me, yeah, I don't see how y'all work together and live together, but I I couldn't see it any other way. Um, because we complement each other so well. And yeah, do we have our disagreements? Sure, but then we figure it out. She's right most of the time. Um that's why I'll sleep in separate bedrooms, right? No, no, no, no. But no, but I mean, I think she has uh very good women's intuition and and I've had to learn that um over over the past past ten so years, and and so that's that's figuring that part out. So it is, it's a nice balance uh with the the home and the work life, but but certainly getting that that buy and that understanding um you know that I was dedicated to doing this and I was dedicated to doing this really for our family because I wanted to be home, because she wanted me to be home. And so so you know, uh I love taking care of people and I love coming home to my family after work.

SPEAKER_00 15:09

So that this is what I've seen just working with you guys, you know, so you obviously you get you know ideas, you'll be up talking to your friend Chat GPT in the middle of the night, come up with crazy harebrained ideas. And so, I mean, you're you're the idea guy, you're the the one that's the entrepreneurial, the business starter and stuff like that. And then she's the sustainability grounding factor um of okay, how do we make this sustainable? How can we make this happen long term? You know, because you can push to make something happen, but if your push does not include, you know, benefits and and space for sustainability, then it's gonna be short-lived. It's gonna be a flash in the pan. And so I think that's what I've seen in in you guys, the way that y'all compliment each other. Um, and even with uh with Christy, you know, there's I'll get ideas, and I'm very similar to you in, you know, I like big ideas and I want to get started with it. I mean, my joke is if I'm talking about it, I'm already in the process of doing it. You know, like it's not it's not like, oh, this is an idea I just had. No, I'm already figuring out how to make this happen, you know, or I've already ordered the stuff to do the thing or whatever. And so part the the second part of this is how do you address the real risk, the real fear, which is the risk involved with the situation. And this is that's why, you know, um, whenever I do any kind of home improvement projects, if I do even the maintenance stuff that I'm gonna take on for her car, what's the real risk? If if I get in there and I start taking parts off and I mess it up, then what do I do? You just take it to the person who knows how to fix it, you know, which you would have done anyway. And so I mean, you have the opportunity to have that win, you know, or you have the risk of just having to take it back to the person that would have done it to begin with. To me, that doesn't seem like a risk. That seems like an opportunity for learning, an opportunity for growth, or or to develop a new skill set or something like that. So, I mean, you did were y'all able to kind of identify what some of the I would imagine the financial risk was one of the biggest uh deterrence whenever you were wanting to get started.

SPEAKER_01 17:02

Yeah, there was a good bit of startup costs. We fortunately had had some good connections locally uh with with some some banks and whatnot to help us get started with that. Um, but the beautiful thing about the direct primary care model is, I mean, a lot like you know, your gym memberships, the gyms you pay them once a month. I mean, that's how we operate too. So there is something to be said uh about sort of that um recurring um uh business model that that kind of has income coming in every month. So we could predictably take steps when we wanted to add something or improve something or or or to make any sort of value ads for our patients, we knew that we could chart that out pretty predictably, you know, for the months to come. And that was that was very helpful. Um but certainly I I think I think the biggest the biggest uh frustration at startup was uh trying to do something that we'd never done, that nobody was doing down here in South Georgia, and and all of my conversations were not, hey, let me come to your practice and see what you're doing, it was let's talk on the phone or let me peruse around your website. And and I think that's it was tough, but it was also good because we got to make it our own. We got to put our own spin on it. I think there's a saying in the DPC world that if you've seen one DPC practice, you've seen one DPC practice, everybody does stuff differently, whether you know you're big on women's health or procedures or you know, hormone replacement or or whatever the case is, like everybody's practice kind of feeds into their interests and and and their high points and their medical knowledge and and experience. So um we really leaned into that. And and leaning into sort of the small town, our goal was to take care of the businesses around here locally, kind of if we could keep them going, we can keep the town going. And and I think that was a good buy-in. And I think people saw that and appreciated that locally. Um and so it helped and it helped incorporate us into the community, um, which again gave Candace and I something to to do here where we're not from South Georgia, so people got to know who we are and and and what we were about. And I think that was that was a great way to again help sort of meld the the home and the work life situation together.

SPEAKER_00 19:15

Well, I think it goes into what you were saying last time of building the parachute, you know, that you're because you know you the the idea of if you've seen one DPC model, I mean, there's not a model, there's a bunch of separate templates. And you have to just like you would download a template online, you're still gonna shape that to whatever you want that letter or or that Excel spreadsheet or whatever it is to say, you know, and so it's it's very much like that, you know, that you have the ideal of ideal situation, what it would look like, but there's got to be all those tweaks that happen because no situation is the same geographically, you know, uh different families, different challenges, different finances, all kinds of different things. Sure. And so with that, you know, I think what's important is to kind of create an idea of a family operating agreement. You know, it's like, hey, I want to support what you're doing, but will you promise that you won't work more than this, or we you won't work this far into the night, or can we have some business or work-free days, you know? Because I imagine as a business owner that it's easy every day for all of your time to be consumed by it.

SPEAKER_01 20:16

Yeah. No, absolutely. That's that's something we've kind of reached that cadence where I get up early in the morning, kind of work on the business, then we work at work, and then we've kind of allotted ourselves, and this this was not initially because we did reach that point, like you mentioned, where it was like, holy cow, it's nine o'clock at night, and we've talked about business through dinner with the kids, yada, yada, yada. And so we give ourselves about an hour, typically till about six or six thirty at night, and then after that, business talks over. So whatever has happened during the day that we need to discuss, we handle it that time period, and then we let it go so that there's always tomorrow. We can always, we can always make it happen tomorrow. And and so if we kind of finish up that conversation with a little small to-do list or things that I know, you know, mentally that I need to get done in the morning, then we can go about and enjoy our night, enjoy our family, enjoy our time together, um, so that we we create both sort of that that that that bridge for one another. Um something else we've started doing this calendar year um is to create some retreat nights. So one one night or one week in a month, we try to get away and and and we do talk a little bit of business. We we kind of reflect on what's been going well, what we could do better, uh, maybe what things we see in the in the future coming up. Um so we do talk some business, but then we're out of the house, we spend the night away, whether that's you know, 45 minutes in Thomasville, or we we head over your way to Jacksonville, um, just as a way to kind of escape our normal environment to to talk about love life and and and all the other things. So that's been helpful.

SPEAKER_00 21:52

And I think that it's it's funny because you know the the pressure to well, let me just keep working on this. Like you said, it could be done tomorrow. But it's really whether we realize it or not. It's a selfish endeavor. You know, we think of I have to do this now. Well, if it's not life and death, then it probably can wait till tomorrow. The reason we feel so pressured to do it is if it's done and it's finished and it's over with, well, now I can relax. If that's the only way you can view that, you're gonna have a real hard time because there's always gonna be more to do. Right. Right. Some of that's never gonna be enough. Yeah. Right. You've got to build the skill set of living in the tension of saying, I know this isn't done yet, but I will have tomorrow where I can finish it, you know, or I can tackle this first thing tomorrow or something like that. Because always feeling like led um by that idea of I want this done now, it's never gonna be enough. And you will, you'll rob your family. And so going back to this operating agreement, you know, you you can ask, you know, what role do you play? What role does your wife play? What role do your kids play? What are people gonna have to sacrifice? You know, does that mean that you don't get to go to every basketball game or soccer game? Does that mean that maybe your wife is willing to take on a little bit more of the child care responsibility if you're running the business? But that needs to be a conversation. Right. And so something that I even encourage uh families to do is to have your mission statement. Most businesses have some kind of mission statement. And they also have you know frequent meetings. And so people don't like the corporate meeting idea or something like that. But here's the thing is it works, is it keeps everybody on the same page. And that's what's necessary once you establish that operating agreement. You check in. I mean, literally, Christy are doing that right now. Whenever I asked her, hey, I'd like to go fishing, you know, is that something that you're willing to take care of, Gideon, while I go fish? And she was like, Absolutely. She's like, I want you to enjoy, enjoy this time too. And I'm like, sweet, we're on the same team here, you know? And that's what it feels like when you have that good communication and you don't feel like you're in competition to get your free time, you know, and you you choose to work as a team because you don't have to, right? But if you choose to work as a team, like everybody can can still be happy and still be a person and you can still see success happen. But there's got to be that communication, there's got to be that understanding and setting those tones overall around all those things.

SPEAKER_01 24:06

Well, and especially, you know, uh I mean, our kids during the summer when they're out of school, like when they're with we we they come with us, we they come up to the office and they sit here, and and recently, as Preston got older, we put him to work and paid him for that. But and maybe we'll do that with the rest. But, you know, they don't like that. That's not what they want to do with their summer, but they understand that like sometimes we have to do that, and and then when we have the opportunity that that Candace can hang out with them at the house, they can sleep in or or or whatever the case is, like that's great and wonderful. But you know, it's it's it's part of their sacrifice for the family business. Um and and then I I try to make it up to them when we go places or do things and and whatnot, because I appreciate them kind of coming along with with my adventure, my journey, my vision. Um because I'm not sure any of them are going to take it over for me one day, but anyway, you know, they uh uh they can be good sports the majority of the time, but that's that's been a a learned situation over time um in and realizing that we have to balance that that family time and and and work time.

SPEAKER_00 25:08

And some of that is is you know, inviting ownership to the family, because you know, what if Candace was not interested in being such an integral part in the job and the business and everything else? You know, like if you were if let's say you forced her to do it, you're my wife and you gotta do this, she probably wouldn't be that helpful, you know. Right. Um but the fact that she wants to be involved, she wants to be included, that's that's ownership that you gave room for, but that's ownership that she accepted, it wasn't forced on her. Um, and so the problem is I think that when when and even when I catch a dream, like you know, last May I started building that boat out of a jet ski just because I wanted to.

SPEAKER_01 25:47

Don't give up on that dream. That's a great dream.

SPEAKER_00 25:49

Oh, it's done, bro. It's done. The assembly line's not done. We got work. No, the assembly line's not done. But I mean, I I can't expect Christy to be as jazzed about doing that as I was because I wanted to learn the skill set, I wanted to learn the processes of how to do that. But that's my goal, that's my dream, that's my idea. I can't expect her to have the same level of excitement about it. And that's why what I mean, I've got these different pods of friend groups. You know, I've got fishing or boating friends, I've got musical friends, I've got woodworking friends, you know, um, I've got all these different people because I know that I'm gonna wear her out if I talk about all the things I'm excited about that maybe she's not interested in. And I think that sometimes we're not aware of that. And so hearing about something that somebody doesn't care about, like I don't, I don't watch sports. Everybody can judge me as much as you want. I don't watch sports, I don't follow sports and stuff like that. And so I feel kind of exhausted whenever I'm sitting in a conversation of people talking about different athletes and stats and everything. I'm like, I have no idea. And whether they succeed or not has no bearing on my life or my success. And so that feels weighty to me to like be involved in that conversation a lot because I'm just not interested in it. Right. And so finding a way that you can have whether it's I think you've got different um business connections of groups that you confer with, you've got your fake made-up uh committee or conference groups. It's a board of directors, okay? On Chat GPT, it's a board of robots.

SPEAKER_01 27:14

It's a yes, Jonathan, yes, Jonathan. They don't, they argue with me. They hold me accountable because I told them to.

SPEAKER_00 27:18

But I I think it's it's helpful to have different groups where you can talk about what's important or what matters to you without exhausting the people who are your support because they don't have to have your vision. Supporting a vision is not the same as accepting the vision or taking on the vision. There is a big difference between that.

SPEAKER_01 27:35

Well, you know, and and you know this. Years ago, Candace's true passion is interior design, and she's got a great eye for it. And, you know, that was that was part of the the real estate investment venture was to kind of she's been such a good sport for the past eight years and and helping me with the direct primary care practices and and all the the changes and the growth and the ups and downs that we've had, and and just I mean, bit been the backbone for that. And I I truly appreciate that. And so that was that was a a side vision for the short-term rentals was hey, this this can kind of feed her her design, you know, eye. And and we've talked about it, and I've not tried to force her into doing that, but I'd love to see her get a little side hustle with a design business that she can help other people design a garage or a bathroom. She's got such a cool eye for that, and I think she has such a passion. Um, but you know, that's something that I feel as as her husband that I that I owe her for her giving her time and and dedicating so much of her life to to uh yeah, let's call it our vision, but my idea that that she deserves that. She deserves to have her her thing. Well, you would like to give her a payback in some aspect.

SPEAKER_00 28:50

Absolutely, you know. Because I mean, uh you if she did it without strings attached, you don't owe her, but you do want to give her a payback of some sort to help support and pursue her dream. Yeah for herself.

SPEAKER_01 29:01

She's never demanded this. I just feel that that that I love her, I care about her, and and I love to see things that she gets fulfilled by. And I think that design is that, you know.

SPEAKER_00 29:09

Well, and that's that's kind of the idea of sometimes, you know, when this is so integrated into the family and time and communication, you know, there are times I'm sure that you've had to protect your relationship from the business. Since the business can uh feel probably at times like a cancer where it just invades everything, you know. How do you protect the relationship from the business? And you mentioned some of y'all's date nights and getaways and stuff like that, or even times, I and I know it's few and far between where y'all's phones are off.

SPEAKER_01 29:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:40

And you mean how much effort goes into that?

SPEAKER_01 29:42

Yeah. Yeah. We probably in eight years we might have had uh four total nights, days, nights that we've been able to completely turn our phone off. And and that's been awesome. And and maybe, you know, I think the goal is for those to be more as as we grow and and are able to implement things to to buy back our time and and have our time. But um, you know, it it it kind of comes with the the territory. And I think that's that's part of that startup cost too that we talked about. You know, it's it's it's understanding, hey, look, uh, we're gonna do 24-7 access. So we need to be ready for 24-7 access.

SPEAKER_00 30:16

Right.

SPEAKER_01 30:16

And it's not near as bad as maybe I thought it was gonna be, but there are times where it's going, I want to throw the phone across the room.

SPEAKER_00 30:22

But that that goes into the communication of you know, creating expectations, right? Of knowing that one of the parts of this is knowing that you're gonna have very little unavailable time, which is probably a hard pill to swallow and probably took a long time to adapt to.

SPEAKER_01 30:38

Yeah. And I think that the education from that side of it, talking to other practice owners and DPC providers, for them to say, look, it's really not that bad. Look, set the expectations with your practice, let your patients know that, hey, you do sleep at night, you know, and you do have a family, and you do like to go to basketball games or movies or get in the pool or whatever. And and so we didn't do a great job of that right out the gate because I think I was too too concerned. It was such a new idea that I didn't want anybody to not like me.

SPEAKER_00 31:10

Right.

SPEAKER_01 31:10

But then eventually we did. We had to create those those guardrails, we had to create that that safety net um for our time um so that we could have time together and with the family and and not be completely bombarded 24-7 with 45 phone calls. And it's not, it's really not that bad. And we've talked about that before.

SPEAKER_00 31:29

I think uh just to kind of wrap some of this up, you know, I've seen where people go wrong with or families go wrong with some of these ideas or these big endeavors, is they operate on the assumption that you should support me. And and, you know, that because we're you're my wife, you should I I get your support, or or you're my family, I get your support because of this. But I so I'll I'll be honest and take responsibility and ownership of of kind of my own flaws in that area. Um, whenever Christy and I early on we were married, um, her job was very stressful. And so by the time that she she was in management position, I think she had maybe 10 employees or something like that. And she's admitted she's like, I'm not a management person. Like, I don't like that level of responsibility and just hearing all the interpersonal problems and doing sick leave and stuff constantly. She's like, it just wears me down. And she was taking a lot of it home. Well, because of that, she had very little bandwidth whenever we had free downtime together. And, you know, on Sundays, I like to go to church as a family. And so it'd be a Sunday morning. I'd be like, hey, I'd like to go to church this morning. Would you come with me? Um, no, I think I'm gonna stay home today. And man, I'll be honest, like I was I was flabbergasted. I was I was angry at first because I'm like, you're my wife, you should support me. But here's the thing is I'm putting her role as as my wife as more important than her feeling like she can make her own decisions as a person. Yeah. And so in my mind, I was doing the right thing because it you should go to church, you should be spiritually healthy and well and all this other stuff. But she gets to decide what that looks like for herself. And I I didn't realize for so long that I was robbing her of the ability to make that decision and feel good about it. I was creating more guilt and more criticism. And it took me a very long time to figure that out. And it caused a tension between us for a good while until I finally told her, I said, hey, I will always want this. And so there's the expectation. I will always want you to do these things with me. But I want to be able to respond more positively when you make a decision for yourself. Um, and so just keep that in mind is like, don't act as if support is a given from family or from friends or something like that. Because that goes back to one of the other points is the idea of like you should be willing to carry the load initially. This is some, this is your endeavor and your burden. Now, maybe initially you don't have that support. And in time, maybe it does come along. Maybe it doesn't. Maybe you realize it's not sustainable. But you operating on the assumption or the obligation that someone owes you this will absolutely cause things to crash and burn from a family perspective. And you will lose buy-in, you will lose trust, you will lose respect when you take away someone's ability as a human being to choose for themselves and only respond with that guilt and criticism. It's it was that I'm I'm responsible for stopping our growth in our relationship for a very, very long time.

SPEAKER_01 34:23

Yeah. Well, you know, and I I think sort of sort of my wrap-up thought would be, you know, at the end of the day, your your business can scale, your portfolio can grow, you can you can add this, that, and the other to your team, but like your family is the team that you you can't go back and rebuild later. You can, but I don't recommend it. Ain't no fun. Yeah, no, no, hey, and that's we've we've been there, done that. We can that's a whole nother conversation. And I think that's where I've learned a lot of the lessons from the Orchard Health Direct Primary Care World is is from prior failures, prior prior lessons I've learned in in not letting a business come between a family.

SPEAKER_00 35:00

So well, that that's going back to the fear of the risk involved with the situation is like, okay, so maybe a failed business would be a huge financial loss, but if you think about a failed family, that's a huge emotional loss that will continue through the rest of time. Yeah. And that you'll have to deal with two Christmases or you know, shared custody and stuff like that with the kids, or whether it's alimony or or splitting your assets 50-50, you know, like there are way more things just in money that are on the line if you are willing to let your family fail. And so I think that that kind of counting, you take an inventory, moral inventory of what is my endeavor, where do I most want to succeed? If that is not your family, I would say that your priorities are misaligned in that situation.

SPEAKER_01 35:45

Yeah. Yeah. As you build that business plan, you have to build that family business plan too to make sure it's there to support.

SPEAKER_00 35:51

Right.

unknown 35:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:51

And be willing to pivot and change change standards and you know, redefine some of your definitions and everything else in order to allow it to be more cohesive. Just like we've explained, you know, the the the myth of linear success, you know, the the myth of linear family growth, you know, like it's the same thing. There's ups and downs. You know, with Preston being in college, you're not doing as much to grow that relationship because he's not freaking here. Right. You know, I'm not saying he doesn't appreciate your support and and all this other stuff, but you're not getting to know him more or as much as you did when he was living in your home. Yeah, I'm more of a spectator at this point, kind of watching the fruits of my labor.

SPEAKER_01 36:28

I mean, that's hopefully a cheerleader. Hey boy, yeah, good luck, boy, go do it. But you know, I mean, that's that's it. I I I kind of get to uh set him free and see what lessons I've taught him, and hopefully he listens to me or things that I've said before, and and you know, it's it's more or less I hope he doesn't screw it up.

SPEAKER_00 36:47

Well, it's sink or swim. That's right. All of us have been at some point in our lives, we've been in that position. That's right. So good deal. Awesome. So just to kind of wrap things up for today, um, just keep that in mind, the idea that your family is your first team. Yeah. Because if your family is falling apart, it is very difficult, if not impossible, to continue to succeed in business because of the distraction that it creates and the hardship and the emotional turmoil it creates. So focus on that family health, focus on the communication. If it, if it's something that your family is open to, do the um the family mission statement. What are y'all trying to accomplish? I mean, y'all have a big impact in the Barion County area because I mean, how many how many lives has Orchard Health touched in that area? Sure.

SPEAKER_01 37:33

Oh, yeah, yeah. I mean, we got we got thousands of folks we take care of, and and then that trickles down to other family members and and relatives and whatnot.

SPEAKER_00 37:40

And I would say that number of who's been impacted by the by the practice would be significantly lower if this was only a Jonathan thing.

SPEAKER_01 37:49

Oh, 100%. Yeah. There's only so much I could do by myself.

SPEAKER_00 37:53

We are more effective together. And so that is that is the idea behind keeping your family as your first team. So um love them. Kiss them babies, love them wives, give them a hug and a kiss and everything else. Tuck them in real nice every night. That's right. You know, and uh hopefully they can catch some of the vision that you have too, or at least be be willing to support you in the process. So um, any final thoughts from you, Jonathan?

SPEAKER_01 38:14

No, I think this was a good one. I think this is something that everybody needs to take into consideration, like I said, before they jump out of that airplane and and build the parachute.

SPEAKER_00 38:22

Mm-hmm. Awesome. Well, Jonathan, have a great week, my man. You too, my friend. And we will see you next week on the next episode of the Long Burn. The Long Burn. All right, take care.