The Long Burn

Episode 9 - The Crossroad of Fortune and Luck

• Jonathan Wade & Joel Malin • Season 1 • Episode 9

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Podcast Summary: The Long Burn (Episode 9)

Hosts: Dr. Jonathan Wade & Joel Malin

In this episode, Jonathan and Joel trade their usual banter for a deep dive into how mindset and daily decisions dictate our long-term trajectory. Triggered by a recent podcast Jonathan heard, the hosts debate the semantics of "luck" versus "fortune" and look at how this philosophy directly impacts mental and physical health.

Weekly Wins & Losses

  • Joel's Win: Celebrating the pure joy of parenting his happy baby, Gideon, whose grins keep everything else in perspective.
  • Joel's Loss: The ongoing, relatable struggle with time management and trying to keep all the daily plates spinning.
  • Jonathan's Win: Inches away from launching a third short-term rental property near Greenville, SC, catering to hikers. He frames this venture as a way to give his wife, Candace, an interior design "canvas" to repay her for years of backing his clinical dreams.
  • Jonathan's Loss: Learning to recognize when his "cup is full" and admitting he needs to look into hiring an executive assistant to help manage his entrepreneurial workload.

Key Discussion: Fortune vs. Luck

The core of the episode revolves around a philosophical disagreement over a concept Jonathan heard on a podcast detailing the crossroads of fortune and luck.

  • Jonathan's Perspective: He views fortune as the static hand you are dealt (birthplace, economics, genetics) and luck as something you actively create through choices, mindset, and putting yourself in the right rooms. He quotes Tony Robbins: "The meeting of preparation with opportunity generates the offspring we call luck."
  • Joel's Counter-Perspective: Joel views the definitions as completely flip-flopped. To him, luck represents unpredictable, chaotic events you cannot influence (like an unexpected call from a job recruiter or winning the lottery). Conversely, fortune is the structured "scaffolding" you build through conscious, deliberate choices over time (like a solid retirement portfolio).
The Consensus: While they couldn't agree on the labels, both hosts agree on the core truth: Compounding daily choices ultimately dictate your reality.

Real-World Crossroads

  • The Pivot Point: Jonathan illustrates this by sharing a story from his senior year of high school. A spontaneous decision to tour the Virginia Military Institute (VMI) post—despite having no military background—led to a chance meeting with a baseball coach who knew his high school coach. That single choice ultimately shaped his entire college career and adult life.
  • The Health Connection: The hosts tie this back to their venture, Fire Health. Just like finances, your health relies on compounding decisions. You can't control every genetic variable, but you can control what you put in your body and how much you move. The goal is to reach financial independence and actually be vibrant enough to enjoy it—not spending your retirement tied to a pill planner or dialysis machine.

Memorable Quotes

"Choosing not to go to work and missing a paycheck, that's not bad luck. That's bad choices." — Joel Malin"Control the variables that you can and then line things up hoping for a good outcome." — Joel Malin

The Verdict

Who should listen? Anyone on a financial independence journey who needs a reminder to stop neglecting their physical health along the way, or those wrestling with how much control they truly have over their own success.

SPEAKER_01

Hey everybody, welcome back to the Long Burn Podcast. It's Dr. Jonathan Wade here with Joel Mallon. Hello. There he is. And we are back for episode number nine. I can't believe we're almost to double digits.

SPEAKER_00

We're getting there. It's it's a lot of information. It's quality, it's throwing gems and pearls, you know?

SPEAKER_01

We've had lots of good feedback. I appreciate the folks that are that are taking a listen and and uh reaching out about questions or different things. I think that's super exciting that maybe we can impact some folks' lives. Um so before we get going today on today's topic, we're gonna do what we always do, and that's the the wins and losses for the week. Joel, you want to go first or go second?

SPEAKER_00

Uh wins, I'll uh I'll I'll go ahead and go first. That's fine. Uh wins, like, man, it is so great having a happy baby. Like, Gideon is a happy baby, and all I have to do is look at him and make a dumb face, and he starts grinning and cooing and trying his best to talk, which he's not good at yet, but he tries, you know, and so it just feels like a win of just like everything else maybe going haywire, but when you've got an innocent little baby that's grinning at you and that's happy, you're like, you know, it's not that bad. I think I can deal with it. So that's that's pretty awesome. Um, losses. Um, man, I don't know if it's a cop-out or not, but I can't think of anything specific that feels like a big failure of this week, other than um just struggling with time management. And I think that's probably everybody who deals with that. So just trying to keep all the responsibilities floating and not drop any balls or plates or whatever you want to call it. So just trying to get that and making a few mistakes this week. And so um that's about it. What about you, Jonathan?

SPEAKER_01

Oh, well, uh on your loss, you you're figuring out the new norm also with the baby, and so you got to give yourself a little bit of grace for that. Um, for us, I I think a big win is we are probably about two weeks away from having our third uh short-term rental property up and listed, uh, which is super exciting. Candace has enjoyed the the decoration uh and and design part of this. This one's been much more smooth than the last one, where I never thought I'd get her to do it again. So that's that's been exciting and and I think terrifying at the same time. This one is on Paris Mountain, just north of Greenville. It's out honestly closer to Traveler's Rest. So it's pretty cool. Uh, you know, we're gonna cater to the the hikers. Uh the state park is less than a mile away from from the house, and so you know, hikers and swamp rabbit trail folks, uh really the outdoorsy uh uh groups coming to Greenville is is who we're we're gonna target. So it's it's exciting, it's a different route for us. All of them have been a little bit different. So um, you know, when you you're not empty nesters, but we're empty nesters now, and so we're we're figuring that what's what's our next our next road and and and uh chapter in life.

SPEAKER_00

Um You're just finding a new hobby, that's all you're doing. Just a new hobby.

SPEAKER_01

No, no, no, no, but but for real, like for the past eight years, Canvas has poured into Orchard Health and poured into my dream of direct primary care. And and I feel that this is how I can repay her um by by by helping her with her interior design and and you know, giving her a canvas to paint. So that's a canvas for canvas. That's right. I think it's exciting.

SPEAKER_00

It sounds like a children's movie.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah. Write a book. Um, but for for lessons, I I think it's kind of like you. It's it's learning when my cup is full. Um, I've I've started to look at um some virtual assistants or executive assistants, uh, get getting some help with with all the plates or balls that I'm juggling to um with with things that we've got going on, and and then this podcast and and the fire health uh venture. So, you know, trying to learn that I I can't do everything and be everywhere. Um and sometimes that that kind of you kind of beat yourself up about it, but I'm I'm trying to learn to learn from it versus let it get the best of me.

SPEAKER_00

So for the record, you're you're more entrepreneurial than I am. So just out of curiosity, when was the last day that you just like binged on the couch and watched like Netflix or something like that?

SPEAKER_01

Uh probably a couple of months ago, I think we did that. Candace will keep me honest. She will. She will say, Hey, look, this Saturday, we're not doing anything. We've got a bunch of shows, yeah, Netflix and Hulu and whatnot, or she'll find some movies she wants to watch. But it's it's probably been six, eight weeks. Um, but maybe after this this house is said and done, we'll we'll be able to relax a little bit.

SPEAKER_00

So does she like have true white girl viewing and want to watch like serial killer documentaries and stuff like that? No, no, she only watches scary movies when it's daylight. So it's a documentary, though. It's not it's not it's just a documentary, it's real life, which should be scarier, but I don't know.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, that's true. Yeah, she likes some reality shows and cooking shows. She likes cooking shows.

SPEAKER_00

So you heard the thing that says like white girls they say they have so much anxiety after they just finish a giant like Starbucks coffee with full of caffeine and watch a murder mystery podcast or listen to one or something. Like, yeah, that's that's it. That's just that's that's the cause right there. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01

All right, man. So today's episode, um as you know, I I listen to a bunch of podcasts, like like our listeners, I'm trying to absorb information, grow myself along my financial independence journey, um, as you said, my serial entrepreneurship. And I stumbled across one last week, actually, while we were driving up to Greenville, um, that was about uh the the crossroads of fortune and luck and kind of how those two interact with one another. Um, and I know that that prior to to going live on the podcast, we talked a little bit about it. And and I think we have some differing views, which I think is perfectly fine. Um because I I think it's really all about about perspective. Um, but for the most part, you know I I think the the the premise of that podcast and the way I view it is sort of fortune is what happens to you. It's your your family background, your economic status, where you were born, uh, you know, if you have any underlying health issues that that are that are congenital or you were born with. Um and and luck is something that we create through mindset, decisions, and action, sort of uh if if we choose to go left or right, if we choose to put ourselves in a room, go out and be social, if we choose to invest in the situation or in ourselves uh in a venture. And and that just compounds over time. And that was sort of the principle of the podcast of what got my attention and got me thinking and and kind of digging more into it. Um, I found a great quote from Tony Robbins that said, The meeting of preparation with opportunity generates the offspring we call luck. The meeting of preparation with opportunity generates the offspring we call luck. Which I thought was pretty cool. And and I it really got me thinking about you, and I just I didn't know do you think you've been lucky? You know, do you think life's been been fortunate or lucky for you? How how would you view that in your life?

SPEAKER_00

So uh we talked about it a little bit beforehand, and like I I have a a problem like conceptualizing the difference between fortune and luck as it was presented. To me, when I think about luck, I think of a four-leaf clover. There ain't nothing lucky about a daggum weed, okay? Like, that's just not the way it works, you know, and so luck it to me seems like something that is unpredictable, that's unmanaged, that just happens out of nowhere and everything else, versus, I guess, in the way my mind thinks about it, fortune is something that's more constructed. That if you, you know, invest in stocks or you know, do a good uh financial portfolio, you'll have good fortune in your later years because of the decisions you made earlier. And I guess that's the way my brain thinks about it. And I think that's backwards compared to the way it was presented in the podcast. No, no, no.

SPEAKER_01

But I think what you just said, so so decisions you make lead to your fortune later in life. Yeah. Right? So the decisions you make are the luck that that change your environment. But a decision that I made isn't luck, it's a decision. That's what the problem is. But it is still lucky, right? There's no guarantee in any decision we make in life.

SPEAKER_00

So I mean But it's at least something that has a desired outcome versus luck is uncontrolled. Luck is chaos, luck is out of nowhere. Like winning the lottery. How many people that got lucky on the lottery live on to have happy lives? But they chose Go on, tell me. No, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_01

They chose to play. They put themselves in that room to win. No, no, no. And and I that's a whole different podcast about what money does to people and it accentuates kind of their their underlying situation. Anyway, but you know, I I mean, again, I I think we could we could agree to disagree on this, but I you know, I I think I think you gotta put you gotta put yourself out there, and and this is something that you taught me years ago, because of as we talked about before, Dr. Wade and Jonathan are two different people. And and Dr. Wade doesn't have a problem talking and being open and and you know, controlling the room with a patient or in a situation, but Jonathan would rather just stay inside and watch Netflix all day. Um and so you've you've challenged me to to be in rooms, talk to people, take risks. And you know, I think I do that from a professional level. I mean, starting businesses, but I don't know how much I do that from a a personal level. Um you know, but uh but again, I mean I I think as long as I'm doing it in some aspect of my life, I I'm putting myself in the position to be lucky, as as we would, you know, kind of kind of follow along with the the concept of of what the podcast was about.

SPEAKER_00

Um I would I would say uh following along that vein of thought is like meeting people because you're looking for the possibility of opportunity is different than saying, I want to meet people because I care about people. And you know, of doing so because that's socially just what's happening, you do it reluctantly, is different than doing so from a business mindset. And some of the people are looking to partner business-wise as well. But whenever someone's like, man, I'll talk to that dude, and he just really seemed interested in what I had to say or what my opinion was, that's a different connection than somebody who's looking to merge business portfolios or whatever it might be. You know, and so to me, I would say that's not as much luck as that is fortune because you're shaping your values to make authentic connection versus simply pursuing opportunity to make business links. I don't know if that makes any sense.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, no, no, no, fair enough. I mean, because I I could see where I could put myself in a room of entrepreneurs or real estate investors, and and would it still be a challenge for me to go talk to them? Yes, I've did this last year and didn't talk to anybody but Candace, and that didn't help anything because I already know her. But you know, to to think about, hey, I'm gonna go out out to a gathering and uh don't know what these people do, they don't really have anything in common outside of they're in the same place. Boy, that sounds real daunting. Because that's that's Jonathan having to go talk. And Jonathan personally has five friends, and that's plenty. So yeah, that's like two more than I had last year. So do you know all their birthdays? I don't know any of their birthdays.

SPEAKER_00

See, that's not authentic connection, Jonathan.

SPEAKER_01

Yours is September 16th. Hey, there you go. Yeah, yeah. See, I knew that there you go. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're we're we're close by. That's the only reason I know that. Yeah, but anybody else, I got no clue.

SPEAKER_00

So yeah, I don't know. I put it on Google uh Google Calendar, and if you set it to birthday, it sets every year that it reminds you. And I'm just like, thank you. Thank you. That's one less thing I gotta float. Yes, yes. That's right. It's all about your discipline to put it down on the calendar or in the the program or whatever it is. Yeah, no, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01

So yeah, I mean, I agree. It's two different situations. If you're if you're going looking for something.

SPEAKER_00

Well, you you asked if I think that I'm lucky, and I would say no. Um, I would say I've had a few things that felt lucky, but overall, no, I don't feel like I've had things come based on the way I perceive it. Um, I think I've had good fortune in that I have felt like I've had to work for everything that I've gotten. Um so, and what I say by that, so where I was lucky is so, you know, whenever I moved to Jacksonville after um, you know, leaving Nashville, Georgia, sob, sad face, cry face. Um, I did get a job working for um for a wounded warrior project, did that for a little bit. And out of nowhere, I got a call from a company that was recruiting therapists and clinicians for the Navy. Now, mind you, I didn't wasn't looking for a job yet. I wasn't um, I I felt like I needed something that was a better fit, but I wasn't actively pursuing it and got called by a headhunter for that or a recruiter, whatever you're gonna call it. Um, and so to me that felt like luck because I didn't do anything to influence it. I didn't do anything to create it to happen, and it was a great opportunity that um has has done well, and I'm still with the organization. And so for me, that's nothing I had anything to do with. But where did they find your information?

SPEAKER_01

They had to find your phone number somewhere.

SPEAKER_00

It was on Tinder. Well, they swiped right, Jonathan.

SPEAKER_01

That's right. But yeah, again, they had to find you you had to have made a decision to put your phone number or contact information somewhere where they found it.

SPEAKER_00

But then that's a that's fortune, I would say, because that's me choosing to be available for people and what you're talking about, being in a group of other individuals. That's a decision to actually engage or get them to know who you are. Because once you explain who you are and what's what you're passionate about, like we talked to Tim a couple weeks ago and everything else, you know, Tim is easily to talk about what he's passionate about. You know, it's easy to trust Tim because Tim's just like, hey, here it is, here it all is. I'm not saying it's all right, but this is what matters to me. And I'm just like, okay, I don't even do finance. And I'm like, well, I mean, should I? I don't know. Like, you know, because he's just passionate about what he does and he's open and honest about it. And and that really breeds a lot of connection between people because like if you talk, like, let's say I love raising gerbils, you don't care anything about raising gerbils, but I'm jazzed about raising gerbils, it's you're still gonna be relatively interested in what I have to say because I'm so excited about it. You'd be like, man, I didn't know that they eat their young. I'm like, yep, they sure do. They get a vitamin deficiency, eat them babies. Like, I'll just like tell you weird facts about stuff just because I'm interested in it.

unknown

Sure.

SPEAKER_00

Well, it's a weird example, I know.

SPEAKER_01

And and I there's a saying that it's better to be, you know, interested than interesting. And and I so you know, right. I I could put myself in that room and be interested in your your gerbil lifestyle. And it's a gerbil farm. Yeah, maybe that leads to to something, you know, maybe there's a deeper connection and and and something else that we've got to do. Ferrets are the next step. Yeah. So yeah, these you you like a lot of animals, so that's good.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Um, but no, okay. So so I think that that we kind of have it flip-flopped. Would you would you kind of say that? That's it. Yeah, my brain doesn't want to agree with that perspective. Yeah, yes. They both they both exist, but but we're just the nomenclature is the same concept, flip-flop labels, and I'm okay with that. Sure.

SPEAKER_00

So it's like Oscar Meyer Wieners versus Nathan's hot dogs. I mean, they're both hot dogs at the end of the day.

SPEAKER_01

Sure.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. And put them on the grill.

SPEAKER_01

So you would say that that from your perspective, in order to be fortunate, you have to put yourself out there, tee yourself up, create scaffolding. Yeah, be available. Yes. You know, you know, you you're you're not gonna find a date from your sofa.

SPEAKER_00

Well, in this day and age, you might luck is like I didn't see this happening. That's just what makes sense to me. Okay, like your lucky rabbit's foot. You ain't doing nothing out of the ordinary to make luck happen. It's a dead animal's foot. Like that doesn't make sense. But is it the belief?

SPEAKER_01

Is it is it believing in something about it?

SPEAKER_00

But that's not scaffolding. That's like that's that's just that's not scaffolding, that's not a plan. That's just faith. Which I believe in that too, but I still can consider that that to be luck. Like faith is like believing in something, and then when it happens, you're grateful and you're saying, hey, that's I feel so lucky to have this opportunity. Fair enough. Just the way my brain works. Not saying I'm right. I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, no, no, no, no. I love this. And so I I I would I would so if if we take the take the labels off of it, we we can agree that that your decisions can compound into good things.

SPEAKER_00

Good fortune.

SPEAKER_01

Taking labels off of it. Oh, okay, okay. Yeah, okay. But but right. So you you you make these these compounding decisions throughout life. Yes. Yes. Uh at different crossroads. And and heck, I mean, uh, a crossroads could be waking up in the morning and deciding to go to work versus not. And and so good things happen when you make make those decisions. So I mean, here's the thing.

SPEAKER_00

Choosing not to go to work and missing a paycheck, that's not bad luck, that's bad choices. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And then you're gonna be unfortunate when you don't have a payment. Unfortunate, yeah. It's unfortunate you don't have a paycheck. Sorry, man, man.

SPEAKER_01

How do you like living on the corner? So here's what I think about. Uh when I when I track stuff back, and again, we're gonna get rid of labels here. Yes. When when I was a senior in high school, um I was we were doing some college tours, and we ended up in Lexington, Virginia, uh to look at Washington and Lee. And I had a meeting with the baseball coach there, and we had just roamed around and found his office, and he happened to be there a day early. And we met with him, talked with him, and and so we had a free day. And and for those of you that are well versed in the the geography of Lexington, Virginia, uh the Virginia Military Institute and Washington Lee pretty much abutt uh one another uh campus to post, as they call it. And so um, you know, we we had that extra day. And I told my parents, oh, why don't we just go to the admissions office of VMI and take take a look around? And my mom was like, you know what the M stands for, right? Like, uh, you know, you you're not you're not military-oriented, you really have no interest. And she said, Mama, I'm a patriot. Let's go. Yeah. And I said, Well, it doesn't hurt to look for here. And then lo and behold, the baseball coach there knew my high school baseball coach, and and and it led to one thing after another, and and ended up at VMI playing division one baseball and and and doing something that I didn't think I was you know gonna be fortunate enough to no labels to to achieve. But the fact that I made a decision to do a campus tour when when I I mean so so would that be luck or fortune?

SPEAKER_00

I would say it's luck because it wasn't orchestrated, it just happened to be. That's just the way my brain thinks about it. But I mean I'm glad that nepotism got you a baseball scholarship. But but but wait, is that an ice cream truck in the background? I swear I keep hearing ice cream truck. Maybe it's my kids' toys. I don't know. It's messing with my head. I don't know. No, it is an ice cream truck. I see it outside. Please purchase from curbside. Stop for children. You better. No, there's an ice cream truck like straight up outside. I kept hearing that sound, it was messing with my head. It takes me back to middle school. Yeah, it's bad luck that it happened during the podcast. Oh what, to have an ice cream truck there? Yeah, because I could hear it. It messed me up.

SPEAKER_01

Or was it was it good luck because it it it created memories? I don't know. Bro, I didn't get ice cream, it's terrible luck.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, but but back in the day, I just saint it.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, back in the day it did. It's those America Pops or the Spongebob ones, those are the best. With the bubblegum center. Yeah that stuff would last about five seconds, you spit it out.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, back in the day. Back in the day.

SPEAKER_00

Back in the day when times was simple.

SPEAKER_01

Back to the VMI story, though. But like sorry, but it was a decision, right? I could have said, no, let's take the day off. There wasn't Netflix back then, but let's just hang out and don't do anything. I met with the WL coach, we're good. So I mean, and that was a decision that I think I could say compounded on more and more decisions that have have led me to where I am in life, but also to who I am in life. Um because of those experiences, and and I look back now and don't think I probably could have made it at any other college um just from kind of being a little a little sheltered growing up. Um but again, I I really credited so you think you were sheltered. I was not homeschooled like you. Um Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I was homeschooled. Deal with it.

SPEAKER_01

But but yeah, I mean, to an extent that like I I don't know, I I didn't do the parties, I didn't do the that stuff. You know, my my parents made sure that that I I had good grades and stayed out of trouble and would make me, you know, pre-tests the night before test to make sure I knew it. I mean, they were very involved in my education and and life. And so I got to college and was on my own, and it was like, oh, now I have to make decisions. But a VMI, they make decisions for you. And that was probably better for me for the four years that I I went there.

SPEAKER_00

So Well, I mean, you get to a consensus a lot quicker, usually. Yeah. Somebody else who's considering all the variables and everything else and deciding for you. Yeah. I will say once you become an adult though, you're kinda like, Hey, stop stop.

SPEAKER_01

I don't like that. Yeah. Well, then you you realize that some of your decisions can lead to unfortunate events.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, so we're back to fortune then. Look at that. Yeah, I thought I'd just work that in there. Okay. Okay.

SPEAKER_01

So so let's let's relate this a little bit to to to both the podcast as well as as as to what we're working on with fire health. Because I think a lot of this we we talk about it from a financial standpoint, we talk about it from other aspects of life, but from a health perspective. The things that you put in your body, the exercise that you either do or don't do, those those decisions can, I guess, in in in your vernacular, lead to a fortunate road in later in life, a healthier fortunate or unfortunate, where you've got medications and doctor visits and and all that sort of stuff, right? Yeah. Um yeah, that's what I would say. That makes sense to me. Yeah. And and so I I think that's sort of our goal is is to look at look look at our members from that global perspective. Yes, they're they're trying to achieve financial independence. Yes, they're trying to start this business, yes, they're trying to balance work and family and all those great things. But we don't want them to sacrifice their physical health, their mental health on the way to do that. We want them to reach financial independence by whatever age, let's call it 52. And we want them to be a healthy, vibrant 52 to where they can travel and do all the things that they've set out to do, not go beyond dialysis three days a week or you know, have have to sit there with a pill planner at 52.

SPEAKER_00

So my thing is I don't necessarily consider that luck or fortune is like it's you focusing on what you can control, you know, and can you control your health? No, you can't. But you can make decisions that have a more fortunate outcome, you know, but you making decisions to be more stable, if you don't have a conscious plan for that, it's it's highly unlikely. You're like, wow, I'm 65 and I've got a great financial portfolio. If you didn't make those decisions early on, you know, you'd have nothing. And so I think a lot of that comes down to control what you can, you know, control the variables that you can and then line things up hoping for a good outcome, which is fortune, and then luck is things that blindside you're like, man, that's pretty sweet. You know, like that just makes the most sense to me, at least. Um, and so focusing on what aspects can you control? Can you control whether you are physically active or not? Yes. Can you control the things you choose to eat and put in your body? Yes. Can you control whether you are actively engaged in your family and trying to build healthy positive connections? Yes. Now, here's the thing: you controlling those choices does not mean you control the outcomes. Fair enough. You could you could be the healthiest person, right? Yes, you can positively influence them. And that's the thing is abandoning, you know, the the need or the desire to control and focusing on like whatever influence that you have. And it and the biggest thing that I like to tell clients a lot of times is that the moment, you know, the most that we can hope for in a lot of areas is influence. You know, me choosing to have a healthier diet is gonna positively influence my health, almost guaranteed. Does that mean I won't get cancer? Didn't say that. I can't control that, you know, but I can positively influence my overall health. And so so many people, it's like whatever you want to control situations, circumstances, or relationships, you actually lose your influence when you try to control. Like if I told you, Jonathan, um, we've got to end this podcast at this time because I said so, you're gonna be like, Well, what? And that doesn't make sense. Like, why are you being so demanding? And you're gonna start to doubt me. You're gonna be like, why are you trying to tell me what to do? You're not my real dad, and that's what you're gonna tell me. And and so, you know, when we start to try and control other people, we actually forfeit our influence because we're no longer trusted. And so the most we can hope for on all this stuff, I don't care if it's fortune or luck, is influence. And so, I mean, if we abandon both those terminologies completely, my question is what influence do you have that you are actively using and investing in? Or is there influence that you have that you're neglecting? You know, if you want your kids to love you, do you have influence over that?

SPEAKER_01

Yes.

SPEAKER_00

Do you have control? No. But if it's not a guaranteed outcome and you say, screw it, they're probably gonna hate you, you know? Sure, sure. Well, yeah, you could positively or negatively influence it. Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. And so my thing is focusing, we can't depend on you know, good fortune. We can't depend on good luck, but we can depend on our influence of at least even if something did not give me what I wanted at the end of the day, I can be proud of the influence that I provided in any given situation. And even that sense that it doesn't have a necessarily a financial payoff, it and it creates a great sense of integrity, a great sense of personal fulfillment and saying, you know what, I chose to do the right thing, the healthy thing, the responsible thing, and I'm not looking for a payoff because I feel fulfilled by making that decision. And and that's different than both of the terms that we're using today and throwing around loosely. But but I know what is lucky? Charms, lucky charms, charms are lucky. Back to those four leaf flavors and leprechauns. They're after me, lucky charms. Yeah. There's no fortune cereal. There is lucky charms, though. So I mean that's right. I don't know. Yeah. Lucky just tastes good.

SPEAKER_01

So do you think that some leprechauns?

SPEAKER_00

That's weird.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, that is weird. Do you think that some people are more lucky than other people?

SPEAKER_00

Uh, so it depends. You know, some people subscribe to, you know, the zodiac astrology, all this other stuff. And so some of that stuff plays into someone's ability to have luck. Also, I think it goes back to, you know, if you're wanting to if you're wanting to meet somebody, um, like a famous person, well, if you don't want to leave your house, you're never going to even have the potential of meeting the famous person, whether intentionally or by happenstance. And so, yeah, if you put yourself out there, then you could get lucky. Okay. So it's not something you can depend on or make happen.

SPEAKER_01

So you think maybe people that are luckier than others maybe choose to try to influence things in their life more.

SPEAKER_00

I would say they're more open.

unknown

Okay.

SPEAKER_00

You know, like the movie Yes Man. Have you ever seen the movie Yes Man with Jim Carrey?

SPEAKER_01

No. I don't think so.

SPEAKER_00

I thought you watch Netflix a lot. Anyway, so Yes Man is like he just says yes to everything all the time and has all this crazy opportunity open to him because typically he would have said no to it otherwise. And so he meets people he never would have met. He's in situations he never would have been in and everything else. And so a lot of this is being open to new experiences, open to new relationships. And here's the thing is that that conversely, you open yourself up to unfortunate things. You open yourself up to unfortunate relationships and interactions because we don't face anything with a guarantee, but saying, hey, I'm willing to try this because there's the potential that it could go very well. But guess what? The potential for it to go very badly is equally just as possible. And we don't know. But it's people who aren't afraid of pain or aren't afraid of failure or aren't afraid of rejection and stuff like that. They're probably the most luckiest because they don't go into any given situation with a sense of fear. They're open to whatever takes place and they're willing to roll with the punches. So that would be my answer.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and I I think you're exactly right. I would agree with that. I mean, it's it's overcoming different types of risk, really. I mean, right? You you you go out into a fear.

SPEAKER_00

It's ultimately fear. That's the root of all anxiety.

SPEAKER_01

And and what's uh so people that that put themselves in that situation don't necessarily have a lack of fear, they just have no strength.

SPEAKER_00

Courage is not the absence of fear. Courage is not the absence of fear, it's the persistence in the midst of fear.

SPEAKER_01

There we go. So you think courageous people might be luckier?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Or people who who aren't afraid of their own mortality. Because people who are like thrill seekers and stuff like that, if they die doing what they love, they're not gonna be mad about that. And so they do all these things that that bring so much experience and richness to their life because they don't fear dying. It's like I'm afraid of not living. I'm not afraid of dying. And so, like being alive and not living sucks, you know, and being alive and not having the experiences that I want, that sounds like death. And so I'd much rather like at least try the thing and have the experience. If I don't like it, guess what? I never have to do it again. But if I just talk myself down, like dumb analogy. So I went to Cabo back in like 2019, I think it was, and there was this like huge rock island in the midst of this bay that we were in by that picturesque, like it's like an opening of the sunset, blah, blah, blah. So, but there was this rock that was like 30 or 40 feet in the air. And so we had this guide crawled up on the top of this rock, and I really wanted to jump off of it, you know? And I got up there, and I'm like, I don't, I'm not afraid of heights, but I got a very healthy respect for heights. There's a difference. And so I got up there and I wanted to dive off this thing, and it took me a couple minutes where I had to like talk myself into doing it. I was like, do I want to go home and think, man, I wish I had jumped off that rock and cabo. But I did it. I did a full-on dive straight into the water, you know, probably went a good 20 feet underwater with the way that I dove and everything else, but I still did it, you know. And, you know, could I have died doing that? I mean, probably not. But that's just a general fear of am I gonna belly flop? Am I gonna hurt myself? You know, like, is there rocks underneath that I don't see, you know, and having that courage saying, you know what, I'm gonna try. Could I get hurt? It's very possible I could get hurt and I'm willing to accept that risk.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, no, I I agree. I mean, and I think that that ties back to, I mean, regret. And yeah, you know, people don't regret not making enough money. They regret the experiences and the and and the the life choices. And so, yeah, you you were able to to overcome that fear and and now you you don't regret not jumping.

SPEAKER_00

Well, regret is more painful than risk. Because it doesn't stop. At some point, your risk ends. Yeah, but regret follows you for the rest of your life.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01

Well, all right, man, as we we reach that 30-minute mark and and and we start to cycle things uh uh up here, circle things up here. What do you got any last bits of wisdom for the listeners?

SPEAKER_00

Well, I would say, I mean, on the ideas of luck and fortune is like, yes, there are things that you do have control of, largely whatever pertains to yourself. There are a lot of things you do have influence over, but also, you know, for me, it's do you also have spirituality? Do you have a higher power that you believe is active and engaged in your life? Because that transcends all those things. And, you know, as a as a therapist, I do encourage people to like, hey, have a spiritual compass, have a moral compass, have an idea of a higher power of something that's bigger than you, because believing that you have to know, predict, or control everything happening all the time is exhausting. Um, being able to say that I trust God, I trust my higher power, or whatever your faith background is, that is still a stabilizing factor. Does that mean that things are going to go the way that you want? No. But it's a belief that something that has more power than you is influencing the situation, and their influence transcends whatever influence you believe that you have. And so to some extent, I think that fortune and luck could also coincide with spirituality, faith, and belief. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

No, I could see that that connection for sure. Well, so I'd like to leave leave our folks who have listened to this or chooses to listen to this with six. There's six of them. All six people. Uh maybe a little bit of a challenge, you know. Uh maybe this week we we step out of that comfort zone and and and try to make a deposit in fortune or luck or whichever you're gonna call it, and and maybe put ourselves in an uncomfortable conversation. Um, you know, you know, find find something that you consider a risk, and and maybe we work on the courage to overcome that um and maybe see what it gets. See, see where it gets you, see if it, if it, if it pays off, it if it opens the door, creates uh a relationship, uh, you know, starts something that maybe you otherwise would not have have uh discovered or run into in life. I I think that would be awesome if if people would do that more. And and I'm gonna try to do that too.

SPEAKER_00

I'll figure out a way to and I'll add something in is like realize that no is not a threat. It leaves you exactly where you were before you asked the question.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

I don't like that.

SPEAKER_01

Not making a decision is a decision.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. It's called being being a scaredy cat. Scared a scaredy cat.

SPEAKER_01

I don't know.

SPEAKER_00

Lil Weenie.

SPEAKER_01

Well, we appreciate everybody listening to this episode of the Longburn Podcast. We will be back next week with another episode. Uh, hey, if if anybody heard uh our interview with Tim and and and has a story, uh, would be interested in um uh being on the podcast. Uh I think they could benefit our listeners or or or uh what what we're talking about.

SPEAKER_00

Preferably somebody more interesting than we are, but that's fine. I mean, whoever's out there.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, that is perfect. Uh reach out to us. Um uh Dr. John D R Jonathan, J-O-N-A-T-H-A-N at uh firehealth.co. Um shoot me an email, let me know, give me your contact information. Um we we'd love to reach out and and kind of kind of grow this uh grow this this platform, this podcast uh to reach as many people as we can. Well, thanks again, Joel. It's always fun, always exciting. You never know.

SPEAKER_00

I'm sorry I didn't have better notes today.

SPEAKER_01

No, I thought you did really well. You said you weren't gonna talk a lot, but I think you did. Yeah, no, that was really good. I can't help it. I appreciate your insight. So all right. Well, until next time, thank you, Joel. Bye, guys. Have a great week.