Episode 11 - Fathers and the Legacy Letter

Podcast Episode Summary: Honoring Father’s Day & The Legacy of Dads

Show: The Long Burn

Hosts: Joel Malin (Licensed Professional Counselor) & Dr. Jonathan Wade

Themes: Fatherhood, masculinity, selflessness, emotional intelligence, and leaving a "heart legacy."

1. Introduction & Personal Updates

• Setting the Scene: Joel checks in from a warm, 90-degree day in Jacksonville, Florida, while Jonathan connects from Nashville, Georgia.
• The Occasion: With June underway, the hosts dedicate the episode to Father’s Day. Jonathan highlights that this marks Joel’s very first Father’s Day as a new dad to his three-month-old son, Gideon.
• The Goal: A free-form conversation reflecting on their personal experiences, the lessons they learned from their own fathers, and the continuous "juggling act" of being a parent.

2. Personal Reflections: Lessons from Their Fathers

The hosts share deeply personal accounts of how their fathers shaped their views on life, character, and sacrifice.

• Joel’s Story (The Power of Selflessness): * Joel reflects on his father, who passed away from bladder cancer in 2022. He notes how difficult it is to watch the decline of a man who once seemed like the strongest person in the world.
  • He shares a humorous yet poignant memory of a church hiking trip where his father insisted on sleeping outside the shelter so others could stay warm. His dad ended up rolling too close to the campfire and accidentally setting his sleeping bag on fire.
  • The Takeaway: While the event was funny, it proved his father's innate desire to prioritize others. Because his father faced financial instability and layoffs, he often denied himself personal desires (like restoring old cars) to protect his family. From this, Joel learned that life is short and adventures shouldn't be delayed. (Interestingly, his older brother took away the opposite lesson: a lingering sense of financial dread, proving that children interpret the same upbringing differently based on birth order and personality).
• Jonathan’s Story (The Silent Cheerleader):
  • As an only child born to older parents, Jonathan remembers his dad being his ultimate supporter. Despite being 46 years old at the time, his dad would sit on a bucket taking baseball pitches off his shins just to help Jonathan practice.
  • Jonathan’s father had a deep passion for theology, divinity school, and civil service—frequently pulling Jonathan along to volunteer at soup kitchens and church meetings.
  • The Takeaway: Jonathan learned the value of community service and giving back. He describes his father as a quiet, impactful presence whose text messages and phone calls carry immense weight.

3. The Modern Challenges of Fatherhood & Relationships

Joel and Jonathan pivot to the psychological and systemic realities of navigating modern family dynamics.

• The Squeezed Bandwidth: Joel discusses the challenge of managing emotional capacity with a newborn. He realizes he must learn to voice his own emotional needs rather than expecting his wife, Christy, to fulfill everything while she focuses on the baby.
• The Insular Society: Joel notes that historically, tight-knit communities shared the burden of being event planners, pastors, caretakers, and friends. Modern society has turned inward, forcing romantic partners to act as each other's entire social network, maid, caretaker, and emotional anchor—a dynamic that can feel trapping if not balanced.
• Mitigating "Bleed-Over": Jonathan shares that he and his wife intentionally take 30 to 60 minutes when he gets home to discuss work and business so they can consciously set it aside and focus on family time. Joel adds that while work stress will inevitably impact the home (per Family Systems Theory), the key is having healthy outlets so you don't take frustrations out on loved ones.

4. Redefining Masculinity & True Success

• Rites of Passage: Unlike biological milestones for women, modern men lack clear, healthy demarcation lines for transitioning into adulthood.
• Fragile Masculinity vs. True Masculinity: Joel notes that society often ties a man's worth to external metrics—the truck he drives (referencing his Ram 1500 vs. Jonathan's stick-shift Corolla), his income, physique, or athletic knowledge.
• The True Secret: Citing author Donald Miller, Joel notes that true masculinity isn't about societal checkmarks; it's about being comfortable in your own skin, competing only against past versions of yourself, and learning to do hard things.
• Redefining Success: Jonathan stresses that true success doesn't carry a dollar sign. He references a concept from a previous episode: the only two opinions that matter are your 8-year-old self and your 8-year-old self. The 80-year-old version of you won't care about the bank account; they will care about the "heart account."

5. Cultivating a Legacy: "The Long Burn Legacy Letter"

• The Concept: Jonathan introduces a tool they call The Long Burn Legacy Letter. It is a fluid template (to be shared in the show notes/comments) meant to be updated yearly.
• Purpose: It is not a legal will or a eulogy, but a living document detailing the life lessons you have learned and want to pass down to your spouse or children. It forces men to self-reflect on their personal growth, faith, and family goals.
• A Moving Discovery: Joel connects this to a real-life experience. After his father passed, the family found a handwritten note tucked away in his wallet. It was a private legacy statement detailing his profound faith in Jesus Christ and his hope that others saw that love reflected in his life.

6. Closing Advice & Community Engagement

• Ask for Feedback: Joel challenges fathers to explicitly ask their children and spouses for an assessment of how they are doing. He notes that receiving feedback isn't an attack—it's information required to move a relationship from "good" to "great."
• Fathers and Daughters: The hosts briefly touch on the crucial role fathers play in their daughters' lives, noting that a father sets the baseline for what a daughter will expect and accept from a future partner. Jonathan jokingly navigates dealing with his 15-year-old daughter's first breakup.
• Where to Connect: The hosts invite listeners to follow The Long Burn on Substack (for show notes), LinkedIn, Facebook, and the Fire Health Instagram page. Listener feedback and "fan mail" can be submitted directly via Buzzsprout.
• Final Send-off: The hosts wish a Happy Father's Day to all the "High-Impact Males" (HIMs) shaping the next generation.

You can find "The Long Burn Legacy Letter" by clicking on the link below:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1BN6UqLz2NajABpIsNImFnww21MOB6Trr/view?usp=sharing

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:07

Hey you guys and welcome back to another episode of The Long Burn with Joel Mallon. That's me, uh licensed professional counselor in Georgia and licensed mental health counselor in Florida. Um beautiful Jacksonville, Florida. It's starting to get warm. It's in the 90s today, nice blue skies and everything. And I'm also here with Dr. Jonathan Wade.

SPEAKER_00 0:26

Yeah, I'm here in Nashville, Georgia, where it's not 90 today, which is nice.

SPEAKER_02 0:31

Yeah, and I mean dirty Dr. Wade. Apparently, some people like that name. You know, it might have to stick.

SPEAKER_00 0:37

So I'm not sure that's the best way to go, but dirty whatever draws attention to the podcast, right?

SPEAKER_02 0:42

Well, maybe dialectic Dr. Wade, podcaster entrepreneur, physician, lover. Perfect. Long walks on the beach. Yeah, my favorite.com profile. Just don't tell Candace about that profile. Candice put on that down for the fact. I don't know a big walk on the beach kind of guy.

unknown 0:59

Anyway.

SPEAKER_02 1:01

So yeah, so uh, so what is our topic for today, Jonathan? What do you have in mind?

SPEAKER_00 1:04

Yeah, I'd really like to give some homage to Father's Day. Uh that's that's right here um in the month of June. And, you know, the fact that this will be your first Father's Day, which I thought was super cool. And uh, you know, kind of do a free form conversation, maybe about our experiences, um, and and maybe some some tutelage here and there about what it's like to be a dad and and kind of juggle everything and and what we may have learned or or or should have learned um from our dads.

SPEAKER_02 1:35

Well, and you figure out quickly, it's like, well, I don't know how to juggle. Well, you you better figure it out quick. Or you do start juggling, you're like, maybe I do know how to juggle. Like maybe I'm better than I thought, you know, some of that stuff. But um, yeah, well, um, I guess like you do want to start off with just some like stories, personal accounts, stuff like that. Yeah, I think we can do that. Would you like to go first or me? Uh sure, I'll go first. All right. Um, so I'll tell you, uh, so just for everybody involved or listening or whatever, um, so my dad passed away from uh bladder cancer back in 2022. And um it was it was very difficult. And for those of y'all that have already seen your your father pass, um, very difficult to see that decline of someone that, you know, when you were a child, that was the strongest man in the world, you know, or someone that you looked up to, you modeled your behavior after and everything. And um, so for those of you that still have your fathers, man, good for you. I'm I'm so happy for you because that is a relationship that is is something I want to see what it looks like to be a man at 40 years old. I want to see what it looks like to be a man at 60 years old, at 70, 80, you know, as long as I can, I want to continue to have an example to look up to. Um, the funny thing that I remember about my dad is um there was a hiking trip. Um, dad always loved taking guys from our church. We he was a Sunday school teacher. He would take us out on these excursions. We'd go hiking, we'd go camping, we'd go fishing, we do all this stuff. And what's funny is like whatever was available, dad always made sure that somebody else had access to it first. He never um jumped in to put himself at the head of the table. He never demanded that like that he had preference or anything. And I remember distinctly, we were on this one hiking trip, and there was this shelter that everyone could sleep under. And there was, I think, five of us total. And so dad said, Hey, all y'all sleep underneath the uh the canopy, be sheltered from the wind, that you know, the dew in the night, and all this other stuff. And he said, I'm I'll I'll be fine, I'll sleep out here around the fire. And so it got cold that night. And what's funny is uh so he had wrapped up in his sleeping bag and was close to the fire. And uh the next morning we come out there and there's just these tatters of cloth all over the campsite. We're like, what the heck happened in the middle of the night? So come to find out, dad had gotten cold and he kept creeping closer and closer and closer to the fire, and he set his sleeping bag on fire. And so he had these tattered rags wrapped around him in the next morning. And so it was so funny at the time, but you know, years later you reflect on that and realize that he was being selfless. He wasn't looking for protection and safety and security, he was ensuring that somebody else had that, you know, and and still trying to take care of himself, even if he did set himself on fire. And I'll tell you, my dad was always a giver. And uh he it's it's interesting. Something my brother and I have reflected like what did we learn from our dad? And um, growing up, I always remember dad wanted to restore old cars, he wanted to build a bigger workshop, he wanted to do different things, and he would get to the point where it sounded like maybe he was gonna do it, then he'd say, you know, I don't need to spend money on that. You know, that's too expensive, or that's too much money, or I can't justify it. And he'd always say no. And so that always disappointed me growing up. And I was just like, man, do it. Like you're doing great, like go ahead and do it. But he was so worried about long-term stability because growing up, you know, we were my dad was laid off several times, and um, you know, so financial stability was very important to him. But he was always selfless and denying himself what he wanted to be able to provide for somebody else. And so my brother and I were talking about this perspective. And so for me, what I learned from observing my dad was that life is short. Don't delay the things that you want because you're not guaranteed that you're gonna be around long enough to have it or experience it. And so I'm a big proponent of find adventure, pursue that passion, do the thing while you can, you know, and it may take some planning, negotiation, or something like that, but but do as much as you can while you can and while you can enjoy it. And so what's funny is conversely, talking to my brother about this is he has this feeling of dread that he's like, I'm just terrified that I could lose everything in a moment. And I'm like, and that shocks me because I'm just like, dude, I don't even know what that would look like, you know, of something that would be so bad that everything would just completely fall apart where you couldn't deal with it or rebuild or something like that. And so it's so interesting that with the same example, we've got two separate perspectives on that. And so you you can look at birth order and stuff like that, you know, with him being firstborn, me being secondborn, you know, there's a little bit more maybe free spirit for a secondborn like myself, um, and so a little bit more structure and stability and predictability for a firstborn. But it's so interesting that kids don't necessarily learn what you're showing them, but what you've taught them sticks with them. So, what his takeaway was different than my takeaway, even though it was the same scenario. And so I mean, I always valued the fact that my dad was so selfless and I try to do my best. I I don't think I'm as selfless as he is. I'm working on it. Well, now that you're a dad, you'll find out. Well, I've cleaned doo-doo a good bit. Um, I thought I smelled it when I walked home, like, oh, here we go. And I cleaned it, cleaned the diaper and there was no doo-doo. I was like, oh, oh, I'm safe.

SPEAKER_00 6:54

Just gets burned in your nostrils a little bit soon.

SPEAKER_02 6:56

It does. It's so weird how smells are like that. You're like, you smell something, you're like, oh gosh. And then it's like a couple hours later, you're like, is it still around? Is it clean? Or like, am I just imagining this? It's like you're it's a fear, a smell fear, a fear smell. I don't, it's weird. Smear. A trauma smell. Trauma trauma.

SPEAKER_00 7:13

Yeah, there you go. That's what it is. Well, no, what about you? Yeah, I love that about you, Dad. And and uh mine's kind of the same way. So I I'm an only child. Um, and and my dad, I remember uh, I mean, always selfless and to this day, selfless. Um, you know, I I played baseball growing up and he was always at practices, he was always at tournaments, um, uh help helping me as much as he could. My parents had me a little later in life. They were 31 when I was born. So, you know, when I was 14, 15, uh learning to pitch and do different things, he was sitting on a bucket, you know, with me throwing balls all over the place and and at 46 years old, taking them off the shins and the shoulder and whatnot. And and you know, he he always put put me first. And I I really appreciate that. And I think he got that from his dad. He he would tell me stories that that my grandfather was was always his biggest cheerleader. Um if he was still living, he would have been at all my baseball games and and whatnot. So I I think that that lineage kind of got got passed down, and and I I've I've tried for for R Ford to be there for events, regardless of of what we had work schedule-wise and whatnot. Um and then dad was always uh, you know, uh kind of learn because you want to. He he had a passion for for theology, still does, has bookcases upon bookcases of theological books, and we read in two or three at a time. Um just from an educational standpoint. I used to joke that he was a substitute preacher because he he went to two divinity schools and and would help out doing uh you know sermons at churches and and and sort of being that that civil servant to to people uh in Nashville, Tennessee, where where they lived after they moved away from East Tennessee. Um and and it was just it's kind of a joy to reflect back to the things I didn't appreciate when I was younger and maybe didn't really understand. But he drug me around to a lot of the church meetings and and soup kitchens and different things that that that we could do to give back to people. Um, you know, we we were very much a middle class upbringing, but but we had enough and we were gonna give back and we were gonna do angel trees at Christmas, and like I said, you know, help out where we could for those in need. And that's that's I think uh something that my parents really ingrained in me as well. Um But no, dad uh dad dad was fantastic. Um growing up and to this day, you know, is probably my my biggest fan. Uh is more of a quiet type. My mom is the the outspoken one um and and will play devil's advocate with me, but dad, dad's always the the silent cheerleader, and and um I know when I get a text or a call from him, you know, it's it's it's got some weight to it because because I don't hear from him all the time, but when I do, it it's certainly meaningful and impactful uh to my life.

SPEAKER_02 10:10

Something that that I'm starting to notice already, you know, with Gideon's just three months old, um and I'm already recognizing, you know, how your your bandwidth gets pulled very quickly. And um, you know, with Christy being focused on, you know, it's my job to help meet her emotional needs, and then she's focused on the needs of the baby, and so am I. And then her mom's helping us out with childcare for the time being, and you know, she's concerned about is her mom okay? And then I've realized like I have to learn to be more okay with either meeting my own emotional needs, speaking up when I do have like emotional or needs for connection, or learning how to cope with not getting what you feel like you need in the situation, because I don't like the idea deserve or something like that. I mean, it sounds very entitled. Um, but I will say that there's a level of respect and connection that's required to maintain a healthy relationship. And it's like finding that balance. And I think that's the path that we're working on right now is trying to figure out how do we respect and honor each other while also meeting the needs of others, you know, and and I think that's a conversation we're starting to have. Um, and and me realizing like, hey, I've got to find new methods of doing this because it's not healthy to rely entirely on your partner for your emotional sense of well-being.

SPEAKER_00 11:31

Right.

SPEAKER_02 11:32

You know, I think we might might have addressed it before that, you know, back in the day, you know, communities were a lot closer than they are for today for sure. And so, you know, you had um plenty of people in town that were party planners, that were event coordinators, that were pastors, that were congregants, that were deacons, that were friends, that were family members, and all this other stuff. And our insular society has put us in a position where we now expect our partner to be our social coordinator, our event planner, our caretaker, our maid or janitor, and all these other things. And so I think that the societal, you know, turn inward has, you know, placed a lot more uh requirements on partners instead of actually feeling free to interact when you can, you know, there's less interaction. So it's like I need you to interact. Um, and I think that there's times where that's not really healthy and can be very felt very trapping in the relationship. And so I'm still working on trying to figure out how do I develop that bandwidth to have some level of availability for you know all those that are involved without having none left from my own self at the end of the day.

SPEAKER_00 12:42

Sure. Well, you know, the there are books on parenting, but I think the best parenting book is is actually doing it. Um, and you learn. You learn what works, you learn what doesn't work, um, you learn, you know, how you would handle situations differently or maybe even the same in the future, um, so that you have that bandwidth for everything. Because, you know, we we were kind of talking uh before we went live on the podcast that you know that there's all kinds of pulls, there's all kinds of emotional pulls at home, at work, regardless of of the age of your kids, uh, the amount of time you've been married, the amount of time you've been at a job, and and it's learning to juggle those things, to balance those things, to make sure you don't get burned out in one place or the other, and and that you don't let one thing impact the other. You know, we've we've talked about that before in terms of of the schedule that we keep at the house where when I get home tonight, you know, we'll we'll have 30 minutes to an hour where we'll talk about the day and kind of catch up and and any sort of business stuff that went on, and and then we'll put that aside to spend time time together.

SPEAKER_02 13:46

Well, and I think the reality is that it does impact the other. You know, you're just trying to mitigate that as much as you can. Um, because it like with if you look into something like family systems theory, you know, if you've got a bad day at work, you're telling me that doesn't affect Candace and the kids when you come home?

SPEAKER_00 14:03

Yeah, no, no. Yeah, I I certainly agree that it does, but I think our our goal is maybe as dads, as leaders of the household, or how you want to look at it, is is maybe to not take that frustration out on them.

SPEAKER_02 14:16

Right. Well, and that has to do with healthy outlets because you know, a lot of people think that they're being strong by saying, I don't need anything from you. Um, and I think a lot that happens a lot in marriages. I'm guilty of this. Like I'll be sitting on the couch and my wife will like, can I get you anything? And I'm like, no. Because genuinely in that moment, I don't think of anything I want or need. But then five minutes later, I might be like, Well, I'll go get a glass of water. And she's like, I would have gotten that for you.

SPEAKER_01 14:39

Well, in that moment, I wasn't thinking about it, you know.

SPEAKER_02 14:42

But but I I I've seen a lot of couples that they don't develop intimacy because, you know, they don't love big because they don't ask big. You know, making big requests of your partner is what helps you to recognize, like, hey, we can get through hard times. We're operating as a team, you know, we do work well together and all this other stuff. Instead of saying, I'm good, I don't need nothing. Yes, you do. You know, we need we all need socialization, we need connection, we need, we need validation, we need support, we need all this other stuff, and we're not this immovable mountain or this idea of no man is an island, you know, that's just not healthy to see yourself as drifting, thinking that you're doing a good job uh of of supporting everybody else. Sure.

SPEAKER_00 15:23

Well, and if if you're not working on yourself, if you're not working on your your marriage on a on a near daily basis, right? I mean, you don't want to drift, you want to work together to be stronger for for the present, for the future, for the kids, for for whatever the case is, the the storms that that will come. Um, and so yeah, I mean, I I think that that is super important to to work together, to lean on one another, um, you know, and and and make sure that you are, I guess the word is challenge one another to some extent. Yeah, you know, get get the best out of each other.

SPEAKER_02 15:52

Hey, hey, I asked for this and I'm not getting what I need. You know, like that's not a criticism or an accusation, it's honesty. Sure. You know, and and so people are like, well, I don't like that. It makes me sound weak or vulnerable. Guess what? We are we are weak and we are vulnerable sometimes. And if you act as if you're not, you're quickly gonna go into dysregulation, you're gonna become dysfunctional, you're gonna become caustic or toxic or something like that. It's okay to admit, like, hey, my needs are not being met. You know, what can we do about that? Be inquisitive about it.

SPEAKER_00 16:22

Yeah, and I think the flip side too is maybe there's a fear to speak up or say something that we don't want to hurt our partner's feelings. You know, we don't want to make them feel less than, but I think that that's part of that challenge to level up to get better.

SPEAKER_02 16:37

Well, and that's that's the structured part too, of owning how you feel instead of blaming the other person for how you feel and using eye statements and different things like that. But it's also developing a good emotional vocabulary and becoming more emotionally intelligent where you can be honest about what you feel without blaming the other person for causing you to feel that way.

SPEAKER_00 16:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:58

Um, something you know that I think has been interesting in um a lot of the books that I've read over the past, let's say, 10, 15 years, I've noticed a trend towards um kind of encouraging boys to have a certain rite of passage or something like that. Um, for a lot of women, it's been suggested that that when when girls start to uh have their menstrual cycle, that that's their rite of passage. Like, hey, you're now a woman. You know, you've had this biological thing that's taken place, you can now bear children. And that's something that's what one of the primary things that separates women and men is women's ability to bear children. Men don't have such obvious, significant biological changes in the same way that women do. Obviously, you know, there's puberty and different things like that, but it's not a demarc like a demarcation line, you know, where it's like this is where it happened. And so one thing I think my dad did right is he always took us on these events and these excursions, and he always challenged my brother and myself, and um, even even other boys and stuff too that that would go on these trips with us. And um, I don't I don't remember ever questioning, am I a real man? I don't ever remember questioning that. But I also couldn't tell you the moment that it happened or the moment that I realized it, you know, and so it's like whatever he did about how he approached a situation, you know, he always he always encouraged me to try stuff. He always encouraged me, he's like, hey, you know, it's okay if you don't get it right the first time. It's okay if you fail and try to get up and then do it again, you know? But it was never a, well, if you didn't do this right, then you're not a real man, you know. And we use all kinds of different things, you know, that we do entire classes um talking to men about understanding masculinity and defining it in a way that's meaningful to themselves versus accomplishing what society says. Because something as simple as I drive a Ram 1500 with a Hemi in it, boy, you know, and so what do you drive, Jonathan? A Corolla stick shift. A 200 Corolla stick shift. I mean, in in very undeveloped circles of men, it'd be all like, well, you ain't no kind of man, you got a truck, you kidding me? You know, and so and what's funny is we use that. Like masculinity is more fragile than femininity. Sure. Masculinity can be criticized based on your sexual ability, based on your physique, based on your strength, based on your ability in sports or your knowledge of sports, based on what you drive, based on how much money you make, based on how big your your house is or how many children you have or how well you're providing for. I mean, everything. Yeah. Well, if you don't do this, you're no kind of man. I've never heard as many examples of that when it comes to women. Most women feel feminine if you know they have the uh the uh shape of a woman, the ability to bear children as a woman. Um, the women that I've heard who do have a hard time with this is maybe that they're barren or they're incapable of bearing children, and that's this huge hit. I know Christy has struggled because breastfeeding has been very hard for her. She's not been able to have the volume that she wanted to only breastfeed Gideon, and that's felt very difficult for her because that's something that women, quote unquote, should do. You know? And so, but that's very different for men because every aspect of a man's life is criticized. And so Christy and I have already started conversations about, like, you know, whenever Gideon's maybe 12 or whenever he's 13 or something like that, that I want to do this excursion, kind of like my dad did, and say, hey, this is your ability to prove that you can do hard things. This is your this trip, like maybe it's an overnight backpacking trip or something. Obviously, this is years down the road, but we're talking about it already. I want him to never question um his ability to be a man. And what's funny, um, there's an author, Donald Miller. Um, I don't know, you might not have heard of him. He had a book a long time ago that was very uh helpful for me early on in my teen years. It's called Blue Light Jazz, and it was talking about the complexity of spirituality. And he has another one. Um, I think it's called How to Raise a Dragon or something like that, or finding dragons. I can't remember the exact name of the book, and I apologize for misquoting it. But he was talking to a group of boys, and he said, I'm gonna tell all of you boys the secret to being a man. Like, I'm gonna tell you what it is. And of course, these boys, their eyes get big, they lean in, they're paying attention. He's like, I'm I'm about to tell you what it is to be a man. Y'all tell me if you're ready. They're like, Oh, please tell us, please tell us. He said, The secret of being a man is having a penis. And and so it's like something as simple as that. It's like, do you want to be the man that society wants you to be, or do you want to be the type of man that you can be proud of? And that's a true sign of masculinity. And I think that that's something that my dad did do a great job of teaching me and my brother.

SPEAKER_00 21:40

Sure. No, I agree. I mean, I I think that uh as as you were talking and talking about the you know, girls having that biological kind of uh bridge they cross over to become a a woman per se. Yeah, I mean, I I think I think that that maturation from boy to man is when you realize it's not about the car. The clothes, the whatever. It's being comfortable in your own skin, competing with yourself to be the best version of yourself. And then giving that to the world.

SPEAKER_02 22:13

You can't compete with somebody else because that's not you. You compete, you can compete with former versions of yourself, but you can't you can't compete with a future version of you that's never happened.

SPEAKER_00 22:23

Or somebody else who's playing on a whole different you know field or in a whole different game. You know, absolutely. I think two of the the biggest components that that I look back from from what my dad taught me is you know grit and resilience. I think those are two very, very important qualities uh in being successful and being a person, but but certainly in my opinion, for for being a man, you know, is because uh uh stereotypically we have a lot riding on our shoulders, right? You know, the and and so I think having grit, having resilience, having that that that no-quit attitude to where you're gonna figure out a way, you know, come hell or high water, we're we're gonna get something done that is needed by our our kids, our spouse, our family. Um, you know, I I I think that is almost essential in being able to lead from the front and then to be able to lead to show your kids that that way, you know, and I and I I view that as sort of what your dad taught you, and what you're gonna teach Gideon is to be able to do hard things is to have resilience, to have grit, to have that ability to not give up.

SPEAKER_02 23:36

Right. And something else that that my dad did is that my brother and I had no question that my dad loved to spend time with us. Um he was much better again at this than I I am because my dad was content to spend time with us no matter what it looked like. It was not like, oh, well, that wasn't that fun doing that with you. That wasn't my dad and I went to this uh fishing trip to Dale Hollow Lake that was up in Kentucky, and um we had so much fun on that trip and we didn't catch anything. And it was like we fished for like three days and caught nothing. And everybody else is like, yeah, it's real bad in like May, June, July, whatever month it was. They're like, Yeah, it's real bad during this time. And so we caught nothing this whole trip, but we had a blast because my dad always made it known I am content to spend time with you. Sure. And I I that's I that being present that moment that we've talked about so much, like that is so difficult for me sometimes because you know it's that feeling that if I'm just sitting on the couch, well, I'm not doing enough. Yeah. If I'm not, you know, getting closer to my goals and I'm I'm doing something that gets me further from them. Sure. But you know, the the success to me means nothing if I lose my family at the end of the day. And so is success based on on winning or is success based on your family wanting you to be around? And that's a much different definition. And it doesn't have a dollar sign associated with it.

SPEAKER_00 24:59

Well, you know, I I I brought it up in an earlier episode about you know the the the two people in your life that you should really care about their opinion is the eight-year-old you and the eighty-year-old you. And I I would like to think that the eight-year-old you would want you to be a dad that was present and and available for for your kids. And the eighty-year-old you probably doesn't care about what's in the bank account as much as what he cares about is in the heart account, you know, the family.

SPEAKER_02 25:27

I don't want to I don't want to be a burden. So whatever that looks like financially, but at the same time, uh, you know, I think the the idea of it's a getting to be an antiquated idea of leaving a financial inheritance or legacy for your kids or for your family. Um, some people are capable of doing that, and that's fantastic. That's obviously that's not a bad thing by any means. But I'll tell you, like, I wanted to see my mom and my dad happy in their older years. I I wasn't worried about well, what about me? Like, that's that's on me to figure that out. You know, that's the resilience he instilled in me. Like the things, the the value I got from my dad had nothing to do with dollars. Yeah, you know, like again, we've talked about if you have a lost family member, something like that, that nobody says, Oh, I wish they'd have given me more stuff before they died. Like, no, like everybody's like, I wish I had one more day with my mom, with my dad, whoever it was. And so that's what really matters. You know, you can have your personal aspirations, but don't miss the needs of those that are in that situation with you.

SPEAKER_00 26:26

Yeah. Well, yeah, when I was 14, my mom told me the first bad check she would write would be the day she died. So I took that to mean, hey, buddy, you better make a living because they're on your own. Nothing left. So and I love that. At the time I was kind of taken aback, but now I'm like, yeah, way to go, mom. I love that.

SPEAKER_02 26:42

And I'd say while your kids still need a safety net, that's probably not the best time to broach that topic, you know, but but definitely something that you normalize that that's okay to enjoy your life. Yeah. Um, so and I was talking about this idea of leaving a legacy. Now, you had mentioned um a kind of uh a document or something that you had made. Do you want to talk about that?

SPEAKER_00 27:03

Yeah, I thought something that would be really neat is something we kind of coined, the Longburn Legacy Letter. Um, and and essentially uh there's a there's a template. We're either going to try to figure out how to put it in the show notes or I'll I'll share it in the comments or or whatever the case is. But it's it's a letter that you're writing now to someone, your your spouse, your child, you know, whatever the case is. And it's it's not a will, it's not a eulogy, but it's it's kind of the life lessons that you've learned from your dad that you want to pass along to them. Um, and it's it's very fluid. I mean, I I encourage you to do it every year or reflect on it every year and make changes as you see fit to look at your growth and your development, you know, as as a man, as a leader, as as as that that that core of the family. Because I guarantee you, with the questions in there, uh your answers will change. Your your opinions about your financial plan, your opinion about your your personal plan, your your your time with your kids, um you know, and to have to to put that down on paper in terms of what is important, I I think is is essential in ensuring that that you leave that uh that heart legacy. Maybe not the financial legacy, but that that that heart legacy. So, like I said, we're gonna try to find a way to put that in there. I I think it's super cool. Uh again, I like to journal. I do things that allow me to kind of reflect on the good, the bad, the ugly, and certainly the things I'm grateful for. And that's sort of what I I view this legacy letter for is a way to be grateful for the things that you've learned from your parents, grandparents, whatever the case is that you want to instill and pass along, you know, to your family to come.

SPEAKER_02 28:55

And so, you know, it's interesting because we do that in some of the groups, uh, the men's groups at work that we'll ask them, like, hey, what are the things that you want to ensure that your children have learned from you? And and so let's say, what are three things that maybe your son that you want him to learn or know about being a man? And um, and they'll write it down, they'll start conceptualizing that, and then we'll challenge them and be like, okay, my question is, are you doing that? You know, are you teaching them this? How are you teaching? Because we could say, Oh, yeah, I'm teaching them that. Okay, how? You know, because if you can't demonstrate how you're informing somebody about this, how do you know you're actually accomplishing the goal that you have? And uh Jonathan probably sees me scrolling on my phone right now. I'm trying to find this letter. Um, I don't think it's on my phone anymore, but it was basically a note um that we found in my dad's wallet um after he had passed. We were going through um all of his things that you know were still left in the house and helping my mom get things packed up so she could move. And um, I don't remember it word for word, but my dad left a legacy of faith. And um he had written on this note that he kept in his, and I have no idea how long he had this, but it was a legacy of faith. It was a note that says, I'm a believer in Jesus Christ, and I believe that my soul is protected and cared for by him. Um, I hope that others can see him in the way that I live my life and find a way to love him in the same way that he means something to me. And I'm looking forward to the day when I'm reunited with my creator who loves me.

SPEAKER_01 30:26

I love that.

SPEAKER_02 30:27

It was something along those lines, and um it's so crazy the things that you find out after the fact. I never knew that he carried that. Sure. You know, and it's like you want to talk about just sobbing in the moment of like seeing this piece of my dad's heart that you know we discovered going through his personal effects. And that was a very private thing. It wasn't framed on a wall, it wasn't, you know, blasted on social media, it was something that he brought with him wherever he went on a daily basis in his wallet. And so, you know, what are those meaningful aspects? What what's the legacy that you're leaving? And uh I hate the analogy of the dash where people are like, it's for the year you were born and the year you died, the dash is the most important part. And I I mean, okay, I get it, I get the the the thinking behind it and everything else, but I think sometimes we turn something into such a common speaker, a colloquialism that it loses the intensity of the meaning. But, you know, if you want to find out what your kids are learning from you, why don't you ask them? Sure. You know, what are the things, what are values that that that you've seen me do or that we have in our family that you want to perpetuate, that you want to continue, that you want to continue to hone or develop or whatever it is, ask your kid, do you want an honest assessment of whether you're doing a good job? Get somebody else's feedback, you know, because we may believe all day long we're doing a good job, but until we get somebody else's input, we can't validate that necessarily.

SPEAKER_00 31:51

Yeah, I I think one of the biggest compliments that that I've ever gotten as a parent is, you know, when when one of the kids has spent the night at a friend's house or or gone over to somebody's house, and and you know, when we go get them, the parent says, you know, a person was so well behaved or he's so polite or he helped out. And I'm sitting there thinking in my head, well, you know, he don't do that crap at the house. You know, we we get we get his B game or his C game, but he knows what to do. And I would rather him show that to the world as a reflection of who he is and how he was raised, and and I'm willing to take the B game or C game, you know, at home because I I know that deep down he's a good kid, he's a good person that cares about others.

SPEAKER_02 32:36

Well, it's like the other day I was going into a gas station to go to use the restroom, and uh we're on a road trip, and so I'm going to walk into this uh gas station, these two little boys, I'm gonna guess they were maybe eight, nine years old. I'm just guessing I'm terrible at estimating kids' age. Um, but I'm walking into this gas station, these two little boys run in front of me, and I'm like, that's fine. You know, but one of them stopped and he held the door open for me, you know, and I was just like, wow, okay, you know, I'm I'm not a woman that I mean, most guys, yeah, you hold doors for women. No, but I mean, just out of respect, seeing me as an older man and him choosing to take a moment to slow himself down to do that, I I just told him, I said, I said, thank you. I really appreciate that, you know? And he just smiled at me and we continued on our day, but those little moments of character are so important. And I think as fathers, I want as soon as Gideon's able to talk and act for himself for the most part, you know, I want to do as much as I can to recognize what he's doing right. You know, I think parents are really good at telling their kids what they screwed up on or what they did wrong or what they need to fix. But are you spending as much, if not more, energy letting them know what they got right? Yeah, because that's what they're really gonna stay motivated to continue doing that.

SPEAKER_00 33:50

Well, the world will tell them what they've done wrong. Sure. We all know that. You know, the the world will smack you down, the world will eat you up and spit you out.

SPEAKER_01 33:57

And it's not even a healthy assessment. It's like it's what the world wants. And how do you know what the world wants is a healthy thing?

SPEAKER_00 34:03

Yeah. So yeah, I think I think the more cheerleaders, the more support, the you know, the more pumping up you can get at home and and recognizing that, hey, maybe the world or maybe the people that that they're around think that the way they act or the way that they portray themselves is weird, but but if it's if it's being mature, chivalrous, you know, you you you name the adjective, like uh I think that's what's important because a lot of those things are are dead in society these days, and and I think they're super important to being a good human and being a good man. I mean, however you want to look at it.

SPEAKER_02 34:34

Just before it's something I realize that we've we've done um unintentionally, I believe, is you know, talked about fathers to sons. Um, I mean, I have a son and I was a son. I don't know about dad's interactions with daughters hardly at all. Maybe one day I will. You've got more input about that. And and in no way am I trying to take away from the value that fathers have towards their daughters because the daughter is looking to the dad as an example of what she should be looking for in a partner down the road. And so if the dad is not given this good character, you're teaching your daughter that she's worthless or that she should be willing to accept less. You know, and and that's even worse. Yeah. Because instead of inspiring them to individual excellence, kind of as we were saying, from the father-to-son dynamic, you're teaching your daughter that if you have negative behavior, that that's what she should be willing to accept from a partner, and and that's that can be very detrimental and cause a lot of family harm.

SPEAKER_00 35:29

Yeah. No, I agree. I mean, I I think it's uh between sons and daughters, it's the same, but in a different way. Yeah, you you want to show them what what they should look for in other people, in in men that they they associate with, um, so that they can recognize someone that they shouldn't, you know. Um we we encountered our first breakup with Addy, the 15-year-old, when school let out. Um, and so I'm trying to figure that part out as a dad because I want to be like, haha, he wasn't good enough for you anyway. But but you know, yeah, that that doesn't go over very well with her. So it's it's it's trying to find that that yeah, that that softer tone of, you know, he just he's gotta figure things out, and if it was right, he'll come back around. But you know, she's got bigger things on her plate, and I think she realizes that. And I've I've told them since they were young, books not boys till you're 30, you know. You you go figure yourself out, be president, be whatever you want to be, and then you know, find you a guy that's willing to support you in that versus one that's gonna just drag you down.

SPEAKER_02 36:35

Well, um, I know that you're working on trying to get some of the content of the podcast listed in other places. Have we talked about that or have we put that out there? I know I've I've put some stuff on Substack. Um, you can look for the long burn on Substack, and I'm putting some of the show notes on there. I need to get uh better at being up to date with that. But don't you have some of the other things like blogs and stuff in other places, Jonathan?

SPEAKER_00 36:55

Yes, yeah. We are on through through both my my personal LinkedIn, uh, which is just Jonathan Wade, um, and Fire Health. Uh we share the the show notes, the transcripts, kind of a blog uh about what the episodes are for, um, as well as on the the Fire Health Instagram page and uh Facebook page. So by all means, check us out, follow us. Uh we are we are getting close to having the launch date ready um so that we can we can get the folks that are interested in being a part of our community and a part of the movement that we're we're working towards um going. But but we really want this podcast to resonate with people. So yeah, you can you can you can listen to it, kind of listen to the notes. Please, by all means leave comments, I guess good or bad. Um but but fan mail insight.

SPEAKER_02 37:43

Fan mail is is uh open on uh Buzz Sprout. So I mean if anyone needs to contact us, they can all uh go through the podcast link to get to Buzz Sprout where we host at um also through the LinkedIn page. Um, you know, we're trying to grow some of that stuff. And so if any of this seems relevant to you, um we'd appreciate you guys engaging. And if y'all, if anyone has any suggestions for topics, for guests, for feedback, hey, we want to continue to make this as flexible as possible and make sure that what we're saying is not just us talking to each other in echo chamber, but is actually confronting topics that are relevant and meaningful to uh anybody, anybody who's listening. So we're definitely open to that.

SPEAKER_00 38:24

Yeah, and we appreciate the folks that that are listening that we have gotten feedback from. Um, you know, I I think we've helped some people out here and there at least maybe open their eyes to the fact that Joel and I are a little bit maybe deeper than than we give on the surface. And I I think that's a big compliment too that I've heard back some from folks that I've known for years that that didn't recognize or or realize that that you know we kind of have opinions and thoughts and and and my mind doesn't stop even when I'm asleep.

SPEAKER_02 38:51

I will wake up from a dead sleep with a solution to a problem, and I'm just like, oh yeah. It's the strangest thing. Yeah, I mean, I don't like small talk, I like deep talk, deep thoughts that actually affect your life in a positive way. Absolutely. You gotta challenge yourself and challenge others, like we talked about. Oh yeah. So so we'll try to get that um that was that the Longburn uh legacy letter. Is that what you called it?

SPEAKER_00 39:15

Yes, longburn legacy letter. It's a bunch of little questions and blurbs for you to fill in the answers. And like I said, it's it's a fluid document. Change it every year, change it every six months, whatever you want, but but really kind of uh bringing what you would like your older as your kids get older to know um kind of that that that journey that you've been on.

SPEAKER_02 39:34

And and then test it. Ask them, hey, this is what I want you to learn from me. You know, do you feel like I've I've done a good job? But be open to feedback. You know, them giving you that feedback is not an attack, it's information.

SPEAKER_01 39:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:46

And so um don't be afraid of information that challenges you, but embrace that because it's an it's an opportunity to grow. It's an like um, I don't like it whenever I ask my wife, hey, is there anything I could be doing better? And she's like, no, we're good. Like I think as a couple, like that's a bad response because you're essentially telling me, ah, this is as good as it's gonna get. And I'm like, no, I don't want a good relationship, I want a great relationship. And I need feedback to know what that looks like from your perspective. And so don't be afraid of those big asks, whether it's from your your spouse, your partner, your kids, or something like that, and be willing to to modify your own thought process or your approach based on that information. That's right. So well, hey, happy Father's Day to all you fathers out there, to all you men that are uh high impact males. I know that's a buzz term nowadays, hymns. Uh so y'all, you guys that are out there being fathers, setting good examples for your kids. Um, we're responsible for the next generation and uh the people who are you know voting on policies that will determine whether or not you know we have social security and things like that. So take care of your kids. Uh they're gonna be the ones that hopefully can support you whenever you need it, whenever you're older. But other than that, I think that's all we got for today. Jonathan, any final comments, any final thoughts?

SPEAKER_00 41:03

Yeah, no, happy Father's Day. It's uh it's your first, and I love that for you. And uh, oh yeah, you know, again, we want to hear from folks and get their opinions and thoughts on things. It's it's it's a labor of love what we do here, and we'd like to know that we're helping folks out.

SPEAKER_02 41:18

All right. Well, again, happy Father's Day. Y'all have a fantastic week. This is Jonathan and Joel signing out. Bye. Peace.