Barbara Cominelli - Moving Beyond AI "Pilot Purgatory" & The "Dare and Care" of Leadership

"Without an AI strategy today, you have simply no strategy."

Barbara Cominelli’s resume reads like a masterclass in global tech leadership. Having driven transformation at giants like Microsoft, Vodafone, and JLL, she is now the Executive Chairman of Spindox, steering corporate clients through the complex, and often messy, reality of AI integration.

In this episode of Good Company, Michael Wilson sits down with Barbara to explore why so many enterprises are stuck doing endless AI experiments without ever achieving real business value. She shares unfiltered insights on the terrifying rise of "Shadow AI," why true transformation requires both technical and business fluency, and her powerful "Dare and Care" framework for leading people through unprecedented change.

The Highlights:

• Curing "Pilotitis": Why companies are suffering from a disease of having endless AI pilots but zero enterprise scalability, and the fatal disconnect between CIOs and business lines.
• Beyond the Efficiency Trap: Why using AI simply to cut costs and automate tasks is missing the bigger picture. Barbara explains how to use AI as a true "growth engine" to unbuild and rebuild your business.
• The "Shadow AI" Epidemic: With up to 50% of employees secretly using unapproved AI tools, Barbara breaks down how leaders must build trust by defining strict "never fail zones" alongside safe innovation playgrounds.
• AI as the New Interface: A fascinating case study of a major corporation abandoning traditional website navigation for a fully intent-driven, conversational AI assistant that builds curated pages on the fly.
• The "Dare and Care" Mandate: Why the ultimate responsibility of a leader right now isn't just tech adoption, but managing the human transition; protecting employability, up-skilling teams, and considering the environmental impact of large language models.
• The "Made in Italy" Edge: Celebrating the Italian tech ecosystem's creativity and rapid problem-solving capabilities, and the critical need to scale AI literacy across the country.
• The Soundtrack: The story behind her choice of The Police's classic, "Every Breath You Take," and its significance throughout her life.

"When I wake up in the morning, I say 'Dare and Care'; I want to see them hand in hand. Dare to reinvent the business, and care for the people to make that reinvention possible."

Listen now for a masterclass in human-centric AI strategy and transformative leadership.

Good Company. Real conversations with interesting people.*

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:05

Hello dear listeners and welcome to the Zingley Podcast. Good company. Real conversations with interesting people. I'm your host, Mike Wilson, and each episode I got a chance to sit down and speak to interesting folk about the markets that we operate in. And I'm absolutely thrilled to be joined today by Barbara Commonelli, who's just the most fascinating lady. She's been um senior leadership roles in Vodafone and Microsoft. And uh today she's uh executive chairman of Spin Docs and AI, just a really true global pioneer in lots of things around technology and innovation and all things um and um change. So Barbara, welcome to Good Company. Thank you, thank you, really glad to be here with you today. It's wonderful. So, Barbara, uh before we start, your your career is like a highlight reel of C words, like CMO, COO, CEO, Chairman. You've done all of these fantastic roles, and but before we get to spin docks and today's world, having done all of these different roles, all these fantastic leadership companies like Vodafone and Microsoft, what really has caught your eye about AI? Why does it excite you so much?

SPEAKER_00 1:16

I would say the transformational potential, no. Of course, it's not um my in my career really uh the the roles and the period uh I enjoyed most were the one where I I could um transform, improve, uh boost the growth through transformation, which could be digital business transformation, cultural transformation. But uh I would say now that this technology has been a lightmotive uh in my career and uh innovation and uh technology is really exciting for me, and I've done it from the technology player viewpoint and from the traditional company view viewpoint that needs to transform. So that's why I'm excited because AI is exponential, is uh everything uh can be done at scale, and uh and really uh I mean we are uh at the beginning of it, no, as we know. So I'm really excited.

SPEAKER_01 2:19

And it's great you say we're really are at the beginning of it, but it's accelerating so quickly. I mean, it's exponential the speed. Could you, for our audience, introduce Spin Docs and the difficult challenges that you guys fix?

SPEAKER_00 2:33

Uh right, we are an IT consulting uh company, uh strong focus on AI, been in the market for the last 20 years. Uh our focus is uh supporting uh corporate clients in uh their transformational efforts. So in the past it was digital transformation, today it's mostly AI transformation, and it's uh it's really a quite exciting moment. We are uh a medium-sized company, so we are 1,300 people with a lot of uh uh focus on technology, but at the same time uh with a strong understanding of industries and uh industry processes. So we think that the mix of these two things is what uh makes us um I mean help uh our clients in solving their problems.

SPEAKER_01 3:25

So this 20-year and a fantastic firm, you you're you're it's a who-su of the people that you've worked with. So when clients come to connect with you today in Spin Docs and maybe their existing clients who you know very well, you've done lots of projects, is AI now the number one thing on their shopping list? And do they come knowing what they want to do with it, or is it more exploratory, or how do they make that leap into AI?

SPEAKER_00 3:49

Right. So uh yes, it's number one on the list to answer your question. Uh no, not necessarily. Uh they have it uh they have a clear strategy and a clear plan of what to do. And this is uh really what we see today, we call it pilotities, no? The disease where everybody pilots everywhere, but a total lack of scalability. Uh because of course you can today with AI you can vibecode anything, no, and have something uh a little mock-up uh working, a little thing working, but then to scale you need uh enterprise grade data type of uh uh project, security, uh a proper architecture. So um no, there is a lot of excitement about AI and what AI can do, but then when you are in an enterprise uh context, uh honestly, it doesn't happen just throwing technology at the business. And what we see today is really CIOs also very uh facing difficulties because uh what you for AI you really need to put together a strong understanding on the business and the process and a strong understanding of technology. And the two things they need to go together. I come from a world when the first digital transformation that I've done uh a lot of years ago were now we had the business uh here on one side and then a bunch of uh very smart young people in another room, maybe in another building, uh doing uh separate things, and uh and it didn't work. Uh so for digital has become a competence of any mareteer, any person in customer experience. So the the the the joining of the two things has happened there. With AI, still we see that uh the tech component and the business uh and the business lines uh are yet not, uh and I'm generalizing, of course. So what happens is that the CIO says, okay, I've defined uh the AI technology, AI tools that we will work with, and then it leaves it to the business line to understand what to do with AI. And that's where the problem uh comes, no, because uh on one side there is piloting, on the other side there is uh paralysis when you need to scale. And um I don't think the issue clearly is not technology, no, uh, it's more uh the capability to have an AI strategy and if I can an AI leadership. Today, when I see document of industrial plan without AI or AI everywhere, uh just as an outsource uh put uh on every plan, probably that's not AI strategy. And without an AI strategy, today you have simply no strategy. So and I would say that um we also need to uh we we're getting there, but uh uh we should we shouldn't think only as AI as incremental improvement and productivity improvement, no? Because that's the easy part, the low-hanging fruit. But uh when I say AI strategy is really the capability to unbuild and rebuild your business augmented with AI, like little pieces of Lego where some pieces now they have AI and they are more powerful. And this really is exactly what we are expecting from people. So not only the automation side, which is important and it's typically no quick wins, and uh of course needs to be done, but reinventing the business. So uh start from productivity, but also uh you have the possibility to completely revolutionize to the customer experience, uh the operations, uh, but especially you can uh use AI to identify new growth engines, new AI-enable product and services, or enrich your product and services. And these are, let's say, for me, it's very important when I see and I really like when I see that the company has AI on the productivity side but also on the growth engine side, no, because uh this is really when you when you can uh extract the maximum value. And um it's uh we are in this uh moment now where uh where uh some people are still uh in the middle, and uh and one of uh the problem is having this vision, having the clarity on the vision, but the second problem, if I can say if I can say is trust. Because we are seeing uh recently I was reading uh research where I said I read that uh a drastic reduction in trust in generative AI, uh even more reduction in agentic AI. Uh on the other side, you have maybe 50% of the employees used using shadow AI, so in in the company. Uh so clearly sometimes uh the real issues is uh trust, you know, the trust in AI. And he, I would say, is more of a leadership uh responsibility than a technology responsibility. So uh as we say, you know, give the inspiration, give the vision, give the people a compel a compelling why and what on uh what we need to do with AI. And uh a bit of judgment, no, decide what matters, what doesn't matter, what success looks like. Uh but especially I think it uh the trust-building component is lacking today. So leaders they need to provide permission space for the employee in the different functions to act freely. And uh on one side they need to foster a culture where people feel safe to innovate, and on the other side, they need to provide the guardless. So the best clients we are working with they are able to say, okay, guys, this is a never-fail zone. We cannot use gen AI or another type of technology because here the human always need to be in charge. Uh or maybe we we need to use traditional AI, rule-based AI, because uh we can't uh we don't have uh no, we we can't uh make mistakes here. Here is a tolerable risk zone. So you can use AI as a maybe to draft, but then the human reviews, curates, and decides. And then maybe there is also a free zone where you can freely experiment, prototype, and innovate. And if you give the people such a playground, then you will see that they will start uh not only playing but building with the sandbox. So this is um another, I mean, that's why I'm emphasizing not only the strategic but also the trust component in this very phase of AI. But again, it's uh it's a journey, no? We are uh here in the middle of the journey, and uh it's exciting. Of course, we know the risk, but we also have the capability to mitigate the risk, at least inside of uh of a corporate uh environment, and um and so it's uh for me it's a very it's a fantastic moment.

SPEAKER_01 11:40

Fantastic, and just so much to to um to reflect on what you showed us here, Barbara. Thank you to to build on that then. So in in Spin Docs, you've got uh decades of experience building together business proposals and business case with your clients. So when they want to come and they've done the pilot or a strategy, they've seen maybe where uh the never fail zone. It's not in the never fail zone, it's another part of the business they're tackling. Are most of the business cases there involving the reduction of headcount? Is it to reduce cost, increase efficiency? But the business case, when they look at the dollars, they say we spend X dollars on AI and we'll save Y dollars on resourcing or or other effort. How do they justify the business case?

SPEAKER_00 12:26

Okay, that I mean the CFO is always there, no? And uh you can't escape the CFO, AI or not AI. But um what I see here is um a lot of uh of sure, of course, as you say, there are um efficiency, you know, a lot of business cases based on efficiency or productivity improvement, operation optimization, this is a lot of this, but also um several cases on um new way of providing new customer experience, a completely radical customer experience, and differentiating through giving in entertaining a completely different relationship with the with the client. These are uh we see a lot of clients doing those uh sort of projects with good returns. And this is about uh no, um we just um launched uh a few months ago, we launched a new completely new website for a large corporate client, one of the most important corporations in Italy, it's called Fincantieri. And um their website is no more uh no. I click the menu, I click, I have a predefined journey that I have to follow. In this case on the app, but the same is on the web on the on the web, sorry, but the same is on uh whatever app or uh whatever other touch point like a totem. Now uh the experience is uh starts conversational. So you and and you ask something to the in their case it's called Captain, their um Gen AI assistant, and the the assistant creates a page uh with the inform the best information that uh you require. It's not a search engine. It really recreates a page that doesn't exist anywhere in any part of the website. It creates a page with a quick summary but also with visuals, video, with additional information to answer your question and give the best question. Clearly, this is a completely different, I mean, this is just a website, no, but if you imagine it in an app inside a relationship with the customer, it's very powerful because you're not uh asking uh your client to go through a predefined path. You're asking your client uh to is now uh you're adapting to what they're asking. So it's really as we say, no, AI as the new interface, but also as the new UX and UI is very powerful because uh people are um are really providing so much better service. And this, by the way, this personal assistant can follow you, can be this the same uh guy you chat with uh on the web, on the app, on the totem, wherever is your uh touch point, your preferred touch point. And the big advantage is that uh for the company, they don't know only what clicks you've done, uh what navigation, uh, but now they know the intent. They know what you're asking, what you're looking for, what you found, what you didn't found. It's so powerful that these people they intend to uh start creating a completely different uh type of experience where the interaction and the way to interact is one bit, is the most visible. But then it's the knowledge of those uh this client that you can have and the type of conversation we you can have with them. So uh sorry I went a little bit too long, but uh I think this is very fascinating.

SPEAKER_01 16:17

No, it's it's fascinating, and and it it we have never spoken to this, but uh our world too, in in the world that we operate in in account-based marketing and personalization and curation, it strikes a lot of chords that we're seeing that people want a personalized journey, they want a curate your journey, they don't want to have to go searching for things, they want things presented, and the old way of the internet working with SEO ranking and tags and pages just doesn't translate to this new world at all. So I I think it's transformational. One more question about AI and um digital consultancy and digital transformation, um, Barbara. Are all those firms that did the difficult work in getting their data right? You you know, the the the fundamental data and pretty unglamorous work all those years ago, are they the ones reaping the benefit now? And what about folk who haven't done that? How are they going to make the most of AI?

SPEAKER_00 17:14

Listen, um uh I'm not sure I have an answer for your question, but uh uh in general on consulting, I I see the word a little bit uh again, not the pure strategy consulting, and then now you do the 200 pages and then you pass it to someone who implements and executes. This word is a little bit disappearing, and uh it's very positive because now uh you build while designing, uh you experiment. So um it's uh it's something that we see. We have uh with some clients now we're uh we're supporting them on the go while they build the strategy, we test it. Uh if it works, we keep it, otherwise we're changing. So it's really becoming more iterative and uh faster, um testable. Uh so if you want, uh I see a world where um doing things doing PowerPoint and uh creating uh and doing things go uh more hand in hand. And of course, uh the issue of data that you explained. Sorry, there is also another point that makes things accelerate is that with AI and with smart AI platforms you can really build on top. When I was uh in Vodafone, uh and we needed to change uh something for uh in terms of customer experience or the system that the guys in customer care were using, it was a huge hundred of millions of uh Euros in terms of CapEx, long projects. Uh uh today uh you can actually build on top, no, uh, in some cases, and you don't really need to uh go and change your entire full stack architecture to provide a better experience, to automate a process, uh to find the solution. So here really you you can build on top, you can extract data from your SAPs, your Salesforce, whatever is the large backend that you have, and those become more repository of data, and with this data you can build agents that uh support the users in uh solving problems on executing tasks or executing uh part of processes. So, this is again something that is very different, very different from the past. And so, if you want, also in this case, creating agents is um is much easier than uh changing what we had before because uh customization. I'm sure that uh the the all the all the system integration is changing. And by the way, what we do with our clients in many cases is have frameworks or pre-uh-worked frameworks, they're not really product, they are really frameworks, uh agentic frameworks that accelerate even more uh what you want to do. So I think that advisory and uh tech implementation are emerging, and this is very good. The client they love it.

SPEAKER_01 20:54

And and to where how important on this list in the framework is governance and risk aversion, and these elements of trust you mentioned at the beginning of our chat. Where do they sit under priority?

SPEAKER_00 21:09

Yes, uh it's fundamental, and um uh we see more and more people implementing AI policies. Uh we see a lot of interest in uh we given we uh just in the last couple of months we have organized at least uh three courses on uh AI for more members, AI for uh compliance and AI, management of the risk. Uh because people know they're trying uh maybe this also the C level sometimes you're not prepared. Uh and um so it's uh it's important to understand, as I mentioned before, uh what uh what is safe to do, what uh what your risk appetite, uh what Level of risk you want to incorporate in the different processes, what levels of uh of uh and how you're implementing your compliance. So yes, it's a key point, and I would say is a part of what I was defining before as trust, no? So if you have your AI policy, you have defined the tools, uh, you have a clear uh risk and compliance framework, this is making uh we used to say that this uh is a problem for business. Today I think that the clarity on this speeds up uh AI implementation because it helps people to give really clarity on what they can or cannot do, especially for regulated industries where this problem is very, very fundamental problem.

SPEAKER_01 22:49

I I think that's really wonderfully pushed, and again you mentioned a really great word at the beginning of our conversation, shadow AI. The amount of stuff that's happening with IP leaking, people leaking content, people uploading stuff to Chat GPT outside of their corporate structures. Um I think is is it's a it's a scary, it's it is a scary environment. Fantastic.

SPEAKER_00 23:13

I know this is a key point in these courses that we're doing for CLEBOR members, because not always you have this awareness. So uh sometimes you say you can't just you give people, you can't use AI. You have copilot, that's it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is what you can use, no? And then uh when you go and investigate, you realize that this 50% of use of shadow AI comes from research, no? Uh and then you are not realizing that by not providing the framework, you are or saying no, you are in actually running the highest risk because uh today everybody's using AI and uh uh it's very easy now to and they don't realize maybe the risk and they start dropping stuff on their personal uh accounts and uh processing stuff there. So very, very risky. And so we always have all these people uh uh very surprised uh by how much shadow AI is present.

SPEAKER_01 24:15

Oh yeah, yeah, but their sales reps and business developers are all running around with PDFs and PowerPoints and uploading stuff and uploading commercials and and and forecasting to to uh to uh open AI. Barbara, you're a very unique lady in that you've got just all this experience of technology innovation, but you're also at the vanguard and the forefront of real estate, of smarter cities, of ESG. This is another element of your career that you're worked in. And and just the uh I'd love to, you know, AI is amazing, but we sometimes kind of lose sight on the environmental impact of this and the um you know the impact, the social impact of this. You know, there is a tremendous conversation, but just to touch on the environmental piece, because I know that's something that's close to your heart. How do you where does that come into the equation on the advocacy of AI and responsible AI?

SPEAKER_00 25:13

Right, no, it's super important clearly, and uh it's something that we need to manage. Uh uh, you know, there are uh technologies moving fast, no, so it's really something where uh we need to be careful uh because uh the the the the energy consumption is massive. I see that there are improvements in terms of efficiency and technology, so this is coming. On the other side, when we work with with the clients, what we try to do is to develop architectures which are uh efficient also in this sense. So, not necessarily sometimes you don't need uh to use uh a large language model for a simple task. Sometimes it can be a small language model on the on the mobile app of the sale rep because you don't really need to go every time in the cloud and use the best model. Sometimes it's something that you develop for yourself and you keep on-prem. So there is a lot of uh, I mean, also in this case, you can really design architecture that uh, from a company viewpoint, minimize. So this is uh something that can be done now, uh, when you start a new project. Uh but at the same time, uh, the other issue you mentioned uh the impact on employment, it's uh clearly something one of the probably the biggest risk that we face. This is not managed. So the responsibility we talked earlier about the leadership responsibility. I think probably one of the first responsibilities that we have as leaders today is to manage this uh transition, not to be managed by. So to govern, to guide, to have a plan. And this first of all means making sure that our people uh are remain and will remain employ uh their employability will remain very high. So uh no no no one has a crystal ball that can say what will happen in 10 years, but what we can say is that we want our people to be and remain uh in uh the full uh employability and um with an attractive set of skills. And uh so our responsibility is very much on thinking about how to manage uh transition, how to reskill, upskill. Um also thinking that sometimes we always think at what can be eliminated. But my insistence earlier in the in our chat on growth engines is exactly for this reason. So uh when you have an AI plan, yes, you know what can be automated and it's logical that uh should be automated, but at the same time, you have growth engines. What can you do by with AI to enrich your offering, uh grow a new business, invent a new business model? Uh this part is probably our responsibility uh to dare, no, to have the courage to reinvent. And then as I as I say for me, leadership today, sometimes if I have uh when I chat to younger people, I say for me leadership is there and care today. So there that is this courage we were talking about about reinventing, uh seeing the future, thinking about uh what can I do more and different. And uh and the second is care that is care for the people, care for the impact that we're having. And um and this goes with again not giving the trust, uh uh focusing on the employability, focusing on the impact that we have. So I'm not sure I've answered your question, but uh when I wake up in the morning I say dare care, and I try once.

SPEAKER_01 29:33

No, you really hand in hand. No, you answered it wonderfully and and got me thinking here too. So, you know, you've been involved in leadership and transformation through so many firms, you know, Microsoft, Photophone, JL, um, you know, and and now at Spin Docs 2, it's a 20-year-old firm. How much leadership and transformation did you have to do internally for the adoption of AI? How how did you bring everybody inside your company on the journey?

SPEAKER_00 30:03

We do have a program that we call AI Inside. So we're offering AI to our uh clients, but at the same time uh we are transforming uh the way we work uh with AI. We started with um from the operational, what we call the delivery side of the business, and also how we develop code, how we uh design for uh customer experience. So what we the the core of our business, but also for all the supporting functions. So uh we designed an AI policy, uh we are implementing uh step by step uh involving each of the functions. So each of the functions is uh interviewed, they express their needs, uh, we understand what is the best tool, and we make sure that everybody has the best tool. That is not necessarily the same. Sometimes it's not necessarily the people they need to work on the tool as a team and not individually. So this is also something important because so you build and uh collecting knowledge. So it's uh we we have just nominated an AI officer who's taking care of uh all this transformation together with the leaders of the different functions and HR. So it's a big deal for us uh because we want to, of course, we are supporting clients with AI, but we want to be uh um AI first inside.

SPEAKER_01 31:34

Yeah, I love an AI and love it. Now I want to have a last chat with you now, uh a conversation. I'm gonna call it Made in Italy. So Italy is a fantastic country for design when I think of cars or fashion or food, you know, and um um, but maybe share with our audience made in Italy in terms of innovation and technology. What's the local ecosystem there like? What are Italian firms embracing technology? And just sharing that with us would be great, Barbara.

SPEAKER_00 32:03

Yeah, yeah. I would say um, unfortunately, Italy wasn't at the leading edge of uh let's say inventing no the technology innovation. So we don't have cloud players, uh, we we lost some of the previous waves. Um and I would say that uh uh we are recovering, um but I would say that in this new world where uh speed is so important, um we have a lot of uh chances because of uh our capability, and sorry it I'm generalizing to really solve problem. So you mentioned the creativity, the adaptability, the speed, the speed, the capacity the entrepreneurship, you know, we have entrepreneurship is everywhere in Italy. We have so many small, medium companies. So the problem, if you want, is the scale, but on the other side, the opportunity is uh the entrepreneurial mindset and the uh the fact that today we can uh go faster. And um so I really think we are talking also with these uh smaller companies in Italy, and in many cases for them, uh the fact now they have a EI, but they have a strong, very strong understanding of a process of a uh niche, vertical, putting the two things together gives them a lot of edge. And um in general, there is also a lot of um a very nice and growing uh startup ecosystem. Uh this is um has increased a lot in the last five years together with a strong increase in the investment in venture capital, not yet at the level of the best in class uh in Europe or um other countries in the world, but we are uh we are uh catching up. We also are very committed to supporting the innovation ecosystem. So we have a couple of startups in our uh ecosystem and we are supporting them in um working with clients. And uh so I would say it's a good moment. Um the problems and the thing we need to work on are uh creating an ecosystem that even if you don't have scale yourself, it gives scale through uh uh connection ecosystem. The second problem is that the talent, because we have a lot of talent concentrated, especially in Milan, is a city that really attracts a lot of talent for many reasons. There are top universities, the quality of life, it's really a nice in it's become a very nice innovation district, but in general, no, we are still lagging behind on uh digitalization and um basic competences. So, on one side, creating an ecosystem, on the second side, in making sure that we uh we are able to give the right value to the niches and vertical where we are super strong, and uh third thing is accelerate on AI literacy at all levels. So, starting from uh the school, uh university, inside the corporations, AI literacy and AI education, I mean saying AI in general, tech and digital, is another priority where companies, university, uh, government, institution, we really need to work all together. When I was in Microsoft, uh we launched this program called um uh ambitio uh Italy Ambi AI Italy Ambition. We're talking about seven, eight years ago. But we put together an alliance where uh together with university, with uh large corp, with uh with ecosystem partners, and we trained 1.5 million on basic AI people sorry on basic AI skills. This should become like a continuous exercise, no? Uh where as Pin Docs we do our part, everybody does his part, and together as an ecosystem, maybe we we we make sure that we have the right level of competencies and talent.

SPEAKER_01 37:07

Oh wow, Barbara, I can't believe we're out of time. The time has just flown completely. You're so very generous with your insights and experience, and it's been a fascinating chat from the different aspects of AI. So before we leave, I'm gonna ask you one final question and then we're gonna talk about some music. But the final question if there's if there's someone listening to the show today, if there's one thing you'd like them to take away from your experience, your experience with Spin Docs, adopting uh AI, what's the one thing you would ask, say, a business leader to take away from the show to implement?

SPEAKER_00 37:43

I would say uh my motto, dare and care.

SPEAKER_01 37:48

I love it, daring care, I love it.

SPEAKER_00 37:51

Which is the courage to reinvent the business and care, building the trust with the people that makes reinvention possible, otherwise people won't follow you.

SPEAKER_01 38:00

What an absolutely fabulous and people again at the center of all we do. What an absolutely fabulous host. Now, each episode of Good Company, we ask our guests to um say their favorite song and introduce that artisan song. So you've picked an absolute classic that I love, but could you introduce um this song to our audience on why you've picked it?

SPEAKER_00 38:21

I've chosen every Barret You Take Police uh because it's one of those songs that uh was there in very significant moments of my life. So it's just a companion for me. Oh beautiful. I really like the song, but it's really more for what meant in the in certain moment of my life.

SPEAKER_01 38:50

You're not calling a better lovely. So we'll cue up the song in a moment. So, Barbara, thank you very much again, and thank you, dear listeners, for joining us here on Good Company, real conversations with interesting people. Give us a like, give us a subscribe, and here we go. Here's the police, and every breath you take.

SPEAKER_02 39:30

Every step you take, I'll be watching. Every single day, every word you say, every game you break, every night you stay, I'll be watching. Who can't you see? You belong to me. They remove you, they revive you, smile you speak, don't we speak? I'll be watching the kitchen, every move, every while you think, every smile, you freaking, every claim you speak, I'll be watching you, every move you make, every step you take, I'll be watching every move, every watch.