ClearPath Scripture
Discussions about scripture as we read the Bible together, following the ClearPath Church reading plan.
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ClearPath Scripture
SNOWFOX (Mark 8)
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Gabe & Zane discuss the words of Jesus... who is Jesus really??
Ooh, it has decided that this recording. I pressed record. Yeah. And it is calling it Snow Fox. What do you mean? Does it just pre- It normally it normally names it based on where you are? But everyone listening, my iPhone has named this recording Snow Fox. Snow Fox. So this is gonna be an excellent podcast.
SPEAKER_01We had a family of six foxes that lived under our den when we first moved in here. Were they white? I mean lived under our no, they were gray foxes.
SPEAKER_00Huh. I know. Well, here we are back on the Clear Path Scripture Podcast.
SPEAKER_01Oh man.
SPEAKER_00With the Snow Fox episode. Uh today we're gonna be reading some Mark chapter eight. I think we did Mark chapter seven last week, so I just decided to go back to back here. Hanging out as fairly often with the Gabriel Jones.
SPEAKER_01Oh, I love getting to be with you, Zane.
SPEAKER_00Yes, as do I. Love to be with myself.
SPEAKER_01Yes, good. You should.
SPEAKER_00Yes, and you, of course.
SPEAKER_01Um and the foxes.
SPEAKER_00And the and the snow foxes. So, Mark chapter 8. We're gonna start at verse 27. We're gonna read till verse 35, and we'll see what the Holy Spirit brings out in our conversation today. You want to read for us, man?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I'd love to. Jesus and his disciples went on to the village, the villages around Caesarea Philippi. On the way, he asked them, Who do people say I am? They replied, Some say John the Baptist, others say Elijah, and still others one of the prophets. But what about you? He asked, Who do you say I am? Peter answered, You are the Christ. Jesus warned them not to tell anyone about him. He then began to teach them that the Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders, chief priests, and teachers of the law, and that he must be killed, and after three days rise again. He spoke plainly about this. And Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him. But when Jesus turned and looked at his disciples, he rebuked Peter. Get behind me, Satan, he said, you do not have in mind the things of God, but the things of men. Then he called the crowd to him along with his disciples and said, If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me and for the gospel will save it.
SPEAKER_00I love this passage. I end up coming back to it time and again. The first reason this passage actually jumped out to me and made me say, hey, let's let's read this one is because you know, we do weekly ministry out at the motel and the apartments and stuff like that. Yeah. And it is so common. Whenever I'll I'll ask people, I'll be like, hey, what uh, you know, do you believe in God? And maybe what do you think about Jesus? You know? And a really high percentage of people will say, Oh, yeah, I believe in God. And they might even say, like, I only I believe there's one God, whatever, you know. And then you say, Well, what do you think about Jesus? And they're like, I'm not so sure about that one. And so, of course, I've heard hours of apologetics on you know, proving the existence of God and all these things, a little bit less on Jesus, maybe more likely in like a like our catechism class or some kind of theology resource. You hear discussion about Jesus. But I just realized that Jesus, uh, you know, the scripture describes him as a stumbling block to the Jews, and and Jesus is still a stumbling block to people today.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Sometimes I don't know what to tell those people. You know, I I feel compelled to give them different answers at different times. Sometimes I invite them to pray, sometimes I invite them to read scripture, maybe start in the book of John or something like that. Sometimes I'll engage in some kind of theological conversation. But I'm just really interested, I think, with our Christianity, with our faith. It it all comes back to Jesus. Like it he is the center point of all of it. He is the Christ, he is the Messiah. And the fact that that Peter actually is the one to recognize that, that's a big deal in the scripture.
SPEAKER_01Hmm. No, I love that. I mean, you're replicating the thing that Jesus does here, and it's asking this person, like, what do you what do you think about him? You know, I I was in um, I was at the grocery store, it was in months back, and I'm pretty sure it was an old Time magazine because I know I'd seen that cover before, but it was a Time magazine with like, you know, Jesus on the front. I think it said, you know, who is he or who is Jesus or something like that. And I mean, it's the it's the question that non-religious people even and people in completely other religions have been asking. He's such a an intriguing historical figure, even outside of what he means for us as Christians. He's such an intriguing historical figure. And I love though that that you're asking the question, that Jesus asked the question. I was listening to a um uh an education podcast the other day. It's actually called, oh man, I don't remember what it's called, Heart, Harvard Ed or something like that. It's like an education podcast through Harvard. And the the title was something about um how asking good questions helps learning. And like one of the opening statements they made was the way that we really engage learners at the very beginning, more than lecture, it's questions right away. And so I'd love to hear Jesus, of all people who could just lecture all day about anything, and definitely about himself and his own divine calling, he leads with the question like, what do people say about me? You know, which of course is kind of a leading question.
SPEAKER_00Of course, he's sending them somewhere. And you know, one thing that's so gracious about God, and Jesus display putting this on display, is I imagine that Jesus already knew this was in Peter's heart. Maybe it wasn't as clear in some of the other disciples' hearts, but he I have to assume that he knew it was in Peter's and that he wanted to call it out. It's like when he sees good things in us, I feel like that he wants to draw on it, he wants to pull it out so that we'll see it. Because a lot of times in in life, I'll realize that there are good things in me that I actually didn't know were there until God uses them and they come out and I go, Oh, someone asked me a question and I gave an answer that was more wise than I expected to give. Or someone um, you know, just pulls on my ministry gifts, and then something comes out in a way that and I find out there's more there than I realized. And I just wonder if Jesus is kind of doing that here. Like, oh, I'm gonna show you guys what's actually in your heart that you might not have solidified or phrased out loud until this moment.
SPEAKER_01Man, that's so beautiful because it's interesting because I know it's not even really the like the main focus of this passage, but just hearing you say that, like when we when we think about what Jesus reveals and what the Holy Spirit reveals in our hearts and pulls out, we tend to view that in like the negative sense. Yep. Like, you know, show me any hidden way, any offensive way in me, test my anxious thoughts, Lord. Like the way that he draws the word sharper than a double-edged sword, divides between soul and spirit, joints and marrow, right? Like he judges these things, but we forget that he like he often draws the good stuff out of us, like the stuff that we've yet to believe, the true things about ourselves, the gifts he's put in us. Like, in fact, just the other day, I was talking to, I won't go into it, but I was talking to Jordan and about an opportunity that's you know, I'm praying through right now. And and he just like paused and told me all the reasons why this opportunity is fits exactly who I am. And like he called out some really good stuff in me that honestly I don't even know that I was thinking about or aware of in this context. And he was like, dude, this is who you are, and this is how people see you. And I was like, it is, and it's amazing how we sometimes like we just need someone to come alongside of us and pull the thing out. I is it is it the proverb, it's the glory of God to conceal a matter of the glory of kings to to draw it out?
SPEAKER_00Yes.
SPEAKER_01How interesting that the one who is both God and king is drawing the thing out of Peter and yet still concealing a thing about himself in this moment.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and exactly like you said, I think that I maybe even sometimes in some kind of false humility, I will lean into, you know, even on this podcast, I finished this recording this podcast last week. I didn't say anything that I was upset of that I said, but I feel like sometimes whenever I speak or if I'm doing a podcast like this, I I want to be honest that I about my imperfection. And I want to be honest that even though I'm in ministry, that I still struggle and that I'm still wrestling through all these things, you know. And but sometimes I do think I sell God short in some ways that He's changed me. Because He's changed me a lot.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, wow.
SPEAKER_00And He's done a lot of really good things in me. And so I think with good intentions maybe, uh, and leaning into wanting to lean into humility, we end up leaning really hard on all the problems that we still have that God's still working on our lives. And we we are not as quick to say, look at what God's done in me and look who He said I am. And to, and then when we get around really encouraging people, that's such a healthy life change, and it makes it so much easier to follow Jesus because we see that in the process we're actually starting to look like him. Yes, and when you realize that you're starting to look like God instead of just like junky old Zane, you know, when you realize that like we are saints, not just sinners, right? This this whole identity piece, it begins to give us faith and courage to live in it and to not shy away from it.
SPEAKER_01And so that's so good. You know, they we talk about God's holiness, and you know, one of the Greek words here in the New Testament uses hagias, the holy ones. Like that we're called the holy ones. Yeah. It's kind of wild. And I mean, and even here, like of all the things that Jesus could draw out of Peter, to your point, what's most important that he's drawing out of Peter is who Jesus is, not even who Peter is, though he's gonna affirm that over and over again, you know. And and I I think it's in it's not here, right? It's in Matthew's telling of this, which is the longer version. Yep, I think is where he says, and you oh, let me tell who you are. You told me who I am, you're right. I am the Christ, the Messiah. Let me tell you who you are, Peter, the rock on whom I'll build my church. Like, and I find that's often the way the exchange happens with Jesus. Like, as we know and affirm in our hearts who he truly is, man, he just talks back and tells us who we truly are in him, which is beautiful.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. But then, but then he'll also get you. Just like just like, what do we got? Like two lines later here, two lines later. He calls Peter Satan.
SPEAKER_01So he's given him the compliment sandwich. So he's doing Jesus Jesus OG'd the compliment sandwich.
SPEAKER_00Yes, he read a lot of leadership books, and so he he gets him here. Get behind me, Satan. Which I don't ever want Jesus to say to me. Nope. But I can relate back to my back to my public humility for everyone. I can so relate to being tied up in human concerns that sound good.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I mean, what was Peter's desire here? He just didn't want Jesus to die. He loved Jesus and he wanted to follow him. He believed he was the Messiah, the Christ. He didn't want him to die. And so that sounds like a really good thing to want.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And it's really easy for us to get into good thinking, good wanting, good feeling, but not godly thinking.
SPEAKER_01Man, and isn't it interesting how Peter's right about who he is, but wrong about what he's here to do. Like he doesn't get that. I mean, they're still, for all we understand, obviously they don't really understand what he means by I'll rise again. They're confused on that. Yeah. They had to think back on it later on, like, oh yeah, he told us. He knew exactly what was going on. But not only that, they're still envisioning you are the Christ, right? You are the Messiah. They're still envisioning this Judaic, you know, military legal. Yeah, socio-economic, not socioeconomic, sorry, uh, economic, political reality of the Messiah coming in and changing the prospects of Israel. And that's not the mission that Jesus is on. No. But it's funny because, not funny, but Peter is throwing out the same temptation that Satan threw out at the garden. Tempting Jesus to be a different version than the one the Father called him to be. Like, hey, I have a different way for you to do this. I can just give you all this right now. You don't have to go through all that stuff. I'll just give it to you all right now. And I mean, I can't help but wonder if Peter sees the same, like, no, no, no, no, Lord, you're not gonna die. I just said you're the Messiah. Messiah doesn't die. And Jesus is like, you still don't understand what it means for me to be the Christ.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. And that's what I just wonder is how easy is it for us to not understand. And we always come back, I feel like, in half of our conversations at the church now to all of life in the spirit, you know? Because of that. It's like if you're in, if you're in the spirit, then that means you're in the mind of Christ. You're thinking with God's thoughts, right? And even if you're really smart, even if you have the best intentions, your life will not you will not have the thoughts of God if you're not in the spirit. It's the it's the formula we have. Let the Holy Spirit fill you, listen to him, follow him, let him be your guide. Yeah. And if we miss that, then we're just gonna have really good thoughts. And sometimes they sound really good. They sound really Christian. Yeah, you can even be a pastor and people clap for your sermon and think it's awesome.
SPEAKER_01We can baptize the thoughts of men and make them sound like a thing they're not, you know. Yes, exactly. You do not have in mind the things of God, but the things of men. I want to have in mind the things of God. Even if I get what's right about Jesus, I don't want to miss, you know, what he's what he's here to do and what he wants to do in me or what he wants to do around me, you know, even if it looks nothing like what I imagined.
SPEAKER_00Yep. And so then he calls the crowd to him, and uh maybe as sort of a second part of an answer to Peter, you know, correcting Peter but also teaching the crowd at the same time. I don't know.
SPEAKER_01That's good.
SPEAKER_00Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me. Whoever wants to save their life will lose it. Whoever wants to have all their own opinions, yeah, wow, whoever wants to whoever wants to live as comfortable as possible while still checking their Christian boxes will lose it. But whoever loses their life for me and for the gospel will save it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, we can't escape the self-denial required, you know, all the work that the Spirit of God does in us, and obviously we believe we're saved by grace through faith, not of works. And that no one comes to him unless the spirit draws, right?
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And yet still, there's this way in which if anyone would come after me, he must deny himself. There is kind of this first, there's like an initial response after the drawing of the spirit that is the response of self-denial that seems to be in some way, maybe, even before we're fully, you know, like as the Spirit of God regenerates us, as he transforms us, we grow in our ability to deny self. If we don't grow in our ability to deny self, I think we really have to ask some hard questions about what it looks like in our relationship with the Lord, if we're really in him or not. But it's isn't it wild that he calls us to deny himself to even come after him? Like to even follow him requires self-denial. Not after, but to even f begin to follow him seems to require some self-denial.
SPEAKER_00There's got to be something in that, I guess, about just the concept of God, right? Or having a Lord. It's not so much different, maybe, than the rich young ruler. That Jesus sees what is really his God and says, it's not like Jesus is against anyone who has money. He never says that. He just says, Well, clearly this is your clearly, this is what your God. This is what you're living for. And that can't be your God if I'm gonna be your God, right?
SPEAKER_01And I don't know, it just it seems like the I think it's Tozer who talks a lot about the self-life and all the the things of self that must be denied, like being, whether it's being self-made, like self, you know, self-aggrandizing thoughts, selfishness, like all the the self-words that we can, you know, those compound words, we could have a massive list of them. Like the self-denial, like we literally deny self. And when that self is laid down and we take on his life, it's completely a completely different way of living.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I've been praying daily lately, just that God will, I know this is the most basic prayer that every Christian has heard, but that God will let my motivation be love. Because, you know, if I look at my own life right now, I guess this is what I do on this podcast, is look at look at where I'm look at where I'm failing. Thank you all for being my therapists. Anyway, as I look at my own life, I'm I have no lack of ministry time. I'm not putting out a lack of effort, but so many times I can be doing the right thing without the love or the compassion that I think was Jesus' full motivation for doing it. You know, the love of the Father, wanting so deeply to obey the Father because he loves his ways and he knows his heart. And I can build these idols of ministry or idols of how of Great Zane, or idols of you know what I'm talking about. And so every day right now, I just feel like I just keep having to come back to God and just try to come in humility and say, okay, God, I know that my own plans and my own wishes and my own, you know, self-aggrandizing thoughts are tied up in ministry and are tied up in being a better Christian and being a better dad and being a good husband and being a faithful friend and all these things that are actually good things to be. But my motivation still gets so tangled up. And so coming back and just saying, okay, God, let my motivation be pure. It's a it's an attempt at self-denial, you know? It's an attempt to come and say, okay, God, one more time. I recognize that I'm letting myself have a big piece of my life right now, and I want to trade my life for yours, and I need your help, you know. Your dog also needs the Lord's help.
SPEAKER_01That's my four and a half pound multi-poo named Hamilton. You may have to pause it. He's probably barking in a scroll right now.
SPEAKER_00Well, I'm gonna pause this while Hamilton finishes his displaying his anger, and uh then we'll we'll pray out of this. All right, after a short break.
SPEAKER_01Um, yeah, and I was thinking, you know, a tough question here is you know, what does it mean to lose our lives? You know, I think we hear this kind of like at you know, like maybe axiomatically, like, uh, you know, you have to lose yourself to find yourself, kind of deal. And and I think there's actually even some truth to that, probably in like a you know, some semantic way. Like I I've told this story, you know, before, but when in our first the first church I was on staff at, I was, you know, full-time for eight years. And then when we stepped out of there to, you know, prepare for whatever the next season was, like I became a stay-at-home dad. And we had just had our fourth kid. And so I went from like, you know, my week, every week was teaching and preaching and leading and all the stuff that full-time ministry is, to like being a stay-at-home dad of four. And like I really did lose myself. I was so wrapped up in like that kind of becoming my identity. And I don't even think in like a bad way. It just I didn't know a version of me without all that. And then when I had none of it, it was kind of like I had to go down to the bedrock of what am I really down there? And it was, you know, it was son. It was his son. And that was like I always point back to that that that changed my life. Like having all that gone changed my walk with the Lord and even my perspective on ministry because from that point on I didn't need ministry to be a thing.
SPEAKER_00Yeah that was that was a strong part of your identity.
SPEAKER_01Yeah it was I mean fresh out of college you know I graduated with a degree in church ministries and two weeks later started full time in church ministries. So it's all I knew in that sense. Right. And I wonder like even for Jesus like what you know having this conversation what does it mean really with him to lose our lives? Like what are we giving up? What are we releasing? What are we unlearning?
SPEAKER_00Yeah I we probably won't nail down all the perfect answers to this in this conversation but I will say that I think there's a piece of it in my mind that is of being being willing to say yes to anything God asks of us you know if God is there anything God could ask of you right now that would be too high of a price to pay yeah and if so then there's something that's too highly valued in your life right some piece of your life that you're not willing to d deny and so I've I have asked myself that question many times about many things. Yeah and I will come back and even when I've when I see something that might be troublesome pop up in my heart then I try to come to God and say God is this something you want you know you can have it just ask it's a yes you know sometimes that's even a against my own will kind of prayer.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And of course yeah wow it is you're right against my own will. Those are good prayers you're praying against your own will sometimes because it it lays bare those other motives.
SPEAKER_00And Jesus isn't unfamiliar with that. That's exactly what he had to pray.
SPEAKER_01Exactly what he prayed yeah Father could this pass from me but not my will but your will be done right yeah and so Lord we just come to you right now and we pray that Lord not our will but your will be done we pray that you would show us who you are open up the heavens and just reveal yourself to us reveal your kingdom to us that we would not worship some kind of skewed view of who you are Jesus but that we would know you truly and that we would be able to represent you truly that whenever someone asks us a question about Jesus or that whenever somebody isn't sure what they think, God, that you would just fill us with such truth and such conviction that you would just fill us with your spirit so that we would not be living our own life how we want to live it but that we would be dead that we would have have been crucified with Christ that we could participate in your resurrection and that our new life could be as part of your family as part of your body that the movements of our life would be those who are not living for human concerns but are living for the concerns of God and that are willing to lose our life completely God so Lord will you just show us right now if there's anything that you want to take and help us in our hearts to be open and willing to say yes to anything that is Jesus we love you amen I pray a special prayer I just I just kept seeing this Lord for Muslims' hearts who are searching Lord I've heard story after story of you coming to them in dreams and visions and this knowledge Peter had was not revealed to him simply by looking at his surroundings the Spirit of God revealed to Peter who you were Jesus and we ask would you come to those in Muslim nations and those God who do not know you and would you speak to them in dreams and visions to reveal who you are Jesus amen amen and God will take some of that to all the people we're outreaching to on a weekly basis too yes God whatever their beliefs are or questions are come reveal yourself.
SPEAKER_00All right everybody well we love you hope you enjoyed this snow fox episode of Clear Path Scripture next week on Snow Fox in a world yep see talk to you guys next week bye