SPEAKER_00 0:00

Did what I sent over make s make sense?

SPEAKER_04 0:03

No.

SPEAKER_00 0:04

So you actually prepared this time.

SPEAKER_04 0:06

I did, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 0:07

I mean more than It was a long title. I don't think we should call it that.

SPEAKER_04 0:17

No. I would just well I I like the way you've titled the last few of just like you know, like let's wait till the end. See what comes out.

SPEAKER_00 0:30

See what comes out.

SPEAKER_04 0:31

Pull out those little nuggets of twisted knees and broken ankles, or you know, like whatever.

SPEAKER_00 0:38

Like just uh let's do it. Um hello and welcome to the Beyond Podcast. I'm Steven. James Ward here.

SPEAKER_04 0:48

Oh, I see what you did.

SPEAKER_00 0:50

You've been doing you've been doing that to me. I pulled it. I did. I I pulled it. All right. Well, let's roll. Well, we kind of got a uh a little bit of an intro. Talking about prayer today. Yeah, I think we're gonna break off of, I think we'll probably break off of that in some ways and go into different topics because I think it I did as I was researching it, um, but specifically prayer, praying to avoid making decisions, maybe over-spiritualizing something or saying I need to pray about it more, or choosing not to make a hard decision and continuing to pray about it. To pray about it. Yeah. When God is calling you to go ahead and make a decision, you don't need any more uh wisdom or you don't need any more direction, but it's more of you need to make that decision and not you don't have to pray about it anymore. Now, what I'm not saying is that we shouldn't pray about stuff, but there's a fine line, though, I think, between choosing to ask God for wisdom and direction and then also paralysis by analysis.

SPEAKER_04 2:00

Yeah, just oh well, and what I see frequently is there are things that are imperatives that the scripture tells us we should do, that at the macro level, that is the answer, is go do what Jesus and the scriptures command us to do. And then as we're doing that, as we're being obedient, we go into the presence of the Lord and seek wisdom, direction, affirmation. And but we're doing it, we're praying and we're seeking him as we're walking out the calling that he has already put on our lives, versus saying, Oh, there's an opportunity there, and um I need to pray about whether or not I should do that thing.

SPEAKER_00 3:04

That makes sense. It does. Yeah when I was thinking about this, I've I was going through the way I made decisions in the past and still make decisions, uh, a decision framework. Okay. And I would fall into the paralysis by analysis. Part of that is probably my my personality. So if there's a decision or a or a uh a decision that has to be made, and I need I want to go in a particular direction, I'm going to really think about it. Like I'm gonna be thoughtful and I'm and I'm going to think about the outcomes, what it's gonna take to do it, and I and I end up taking more time than some people to make a decision. I think that's good to a point, and yet there does come a point where I probably should have made a decision sooner than I had. And I was curious, was is that your experience with making decisions? Because it sounded like completely different when you were when you were just talking about that, where it's more of you saw an opportunity and you just took it and then asked for direction wisdom and how to do it?

SPEAKER_04 4:34

Is that what I am I am much quicker to make a decision. And I I think part of this is my wiring, part of it is just the uh the conviction that I have around continuing to move forward and to not get paralyzed by indecisiveness, and so I am much more apt to see an opportunity, say, yes, I'll do it, or here we go, and start walking in that direction, and then praying for God to guide my steps, open doors, um, give me the wisdom, the resources, the discernment that I need to be able to do that. Does that make sense? Yeah, it does. So here's here's a here's a great example. Okay. I was thinking about this. And you know, one of the reasons that I spent a little more time preparing for this, yeah, is because admittedly, I have struggled throughout my walk with Christ in the area of prayer.

SPEAKER_00 5:57

Can you be more what is what does that mean?

SPEAKER_04 5:59

Well, I've so I for the longest time, and I would say I am I am just now shifting, like over the last, I say just now, but over the last year, two years, shifting my perception of what prayer is. I grew up thinking that prayer is the practice of talking to God. And my struggle with that is I run out of things to say. And I feel like I don't have the words to say. I feel like I get into these circular patterns where I'm praying the same things over and over and over again, and I relate it to a relationship with another person, and like I don't I don't relate to other people that way. Like when you and I are taking a trip somewhere and we've got a long drive, we're we're having conversation back and forth during that drive. Right. And I've struggled to find that type of interaction with God where I feel like there's a conversation taking place. And so I've always up until the last couple years, I've viewed prayer through that lens of it should be a conversation, it's not really a conversation, and so I struggle with the concept.

SPEAKER_00 7:47

What do you what do you think if you had that it would look like? I'm very curious as to what you mean. I understand what you mean by conversation. Yeah, what would you expect it to be like if it was a conversation?

SPEAKER_04 8:05

I would expect to hear back from God, maybe not audibly, but I do think over the years I have learned to discern God's voice when he's speaking to me. But he's not always speaking to me in that way. I don't always hear God's voice, I don't always sense his direction. And my ideal of what prayer would be would be me going before God and hearing responses from him to the questions that I have or the challenges that I'm struggling with, or the people that I'm praying for. And I don't I don't always get that when I go into prayer. Does that make does that answer your question? Yeah, it does. It does. But my perspective on what prayer is is shifting, and it's shifting away from the idea that it's a conversation with God and way more to a place of it is a it is a state of mind and a state of being where I am aware of his presence and I'm contemplating who God is and what he is about, and I am meditating on a scripture or on a truth, and then I'm asking him for clarity or direction. Um I'm seeing it much more as a a state of being, almost like a a place that I go rather than this idea of it's a it's it's an ongoing conversation.

SPEAKER_00 10:14

So then are you choosing to slow down before making more decisions now? No. No. I mean I didn't know if that played into it, right?

SPEAKER_04 10:26

Did that no, I mean maybe it should. So like the example that I that I was gonna share is Hurricane Helene. Yes. Okay, so yeah. You you you remember this very well, right? It was a little over a year ago. Yeah, you and I were had decided that we wanted to uh mobilize some of the young adults that we had been pouring into investing in that have been part of beyond. And we wanted to actually put some of the principles in practice from leadership to service into actual real-world environment and mobilize them to go and serve families that had been devastated by the hurricane. And that decision to do that was made quickly, without a lot of information, without a plan, without knowing what we would go do. And I remember you and I, like literally a few days before our first team, and it was a big team, was going to go up and serve. We had like carved out like four or five days, and we had, I mean, I think we had like 18-ish people. We had 18 to 20 people, we had heavy equipment, we had equipment commitment and we didn't know who we were gonna serve, we didn't know where, we didn't have a place to stay.

SPEAKER_00 12:01

We had companies coming up that were taking time off of work to serve. That's right.

SPEAKER_04 12:09

We didn't have anything. Harrison had leveraged relationships with people to have equipment donated that he was pulling up on a big, like low boy trail. I mean, it was it was an operation. We rolled in heavy, we were going to roll in heavy, excavators, and we didn't know what and we didn't know what we were gonna do. Yeah, and I was fairly comfortable with that. I was not, you were not, and I remember we were driving, we had spent all day driving around North Carolina, around the Asheville area, and we were hitting dead end after dead end after dead end. It was one of those situations where there was like there's destruction everywhere you look, but nobody is saying, hey, we need help.

SPEAKER_00 12:56

And until I mean we had been there for we had spent the night in the in the truck the night before and got there really early. We had been there for eight to ten hours driving around.

SPEAKER_04 13:10

Like I knew some people up there, we were meeting with people and it was a dead end. Meet with somebody else, a dead end. And I remember we were the big need we had immediately was we got to find a place to stay. And we had gone to one spot that I thought might be something, and we were in that parking lot, and it was obvious that this wasn't going to be a place for us. And I remember you looking at me and like, hey, well, what are we doing? This is a problem. We don't have like we've got all this equipment and people committed, and we don't have anything for them to do or any place for them to stay. And if you remember, we stopped and prayed. We did in the Popeye's parking lot. Popeye's parking lot. We stopped and prayed. And then I don't even, you probably have a better memory than I do. I don't even remember how we ended up on the road that we ended up on.

SPEAKER_00 14:08

Do you mean well, we we said, this was at the end of the day too. We were we were sitting in the Popeye's parking lot, and it was it was getting so late that we were like, we've we've got to go ahead and head back. We didn't have anything, we didn't we didn't have anything scheduled, nowhere to stay, like you were saying. And he said, Well, let's go check out that place that you had known about one more time.

SPEAKER_04 14:32

So we drove on that road. And we drove past the place and realized this wasn't it. And I said, Let's just go, let's just keep going, let's just go down to the end of this road. We'll turn around and you said, let's go a mile more. A mile more. Yep. All right. Well, we got literally to the end of that. I mean, the bridge was out, end of the road, and there was a little old southern church sitting there that had this huge open field that they had and big parking lot. Like the parking lot was way bigger than the church needed. No way they had that many people coming to that church. But we we rolled in and we got out and we talked to the pastor. Shout out, Pastor Johnny. Pastor Johnny, thank you, sir. And he was like, Oh man, yeah, there's people up this road that need help. You can camp right there. We got food trucks that come in, we'll feed you. And like immediately it was like we could breathe. We got it. Yeah, we know what we at least know what we're gonna where we can keep people, and we at least have a direction for where we can serve, right? We ended up doing multiple trips. I don't remember, six, eight trips. We camped at Pastor Johnny's church lot just about every trip. We worked and operated out of that as a base camp. It ended up being perfect. We served a lot of people, did unbelievable, God just used it in unbelievable ways. It's a highlight for me personally when I think about Beyond, excuse me, excuse me, of the story of Beyond. That's one of the highlights to me. And we could have easily missed, we could have easily gotten discouraged and said, Oh, this was a bad idea. Let's call it off before we get any more commitments, before we disappoint any more people. Um, but my nature was such that I want to commit and then we'll go figure out how it works. And I had just seen God answer and do that throughout my career, working internationally in so many different ways, that I was pretty comfortable in that space. Um, and I think if if we had allowed ourselves to on the front end, analyze the situation too much, spend too much time praying and seeking wisdom, guidance, whatever, that we would have we could have easily landed at the place that said, we're not really equipped to do this. And I think that that to me is a great story, a great illustration of the way that I typically function and the way that I see prayer work. It's like God tells us to serve the brokenhearted. He tells us to pour ourselves out on behalf of those that are suffering. There was an environment where people, where there was brokenheartedness, people were suffering, people needed help, and I knew we were positioned to help. And so it was an easy yes to say we're gonna go help, and then we're gonna trust God along the way to provide what we need when we need it. And and he did, um, at least from my perspective, you may have a different perspective, but he did every step of the way, literally on every single trip. And that to me is a is a great example of walking in light of the truth and trusting and seeking God through prayer along the journey.

SPEAKER_00 18:26

That was the story that came into my mind when I was uh when you said what you did at the beginning. That was that's the classic example that I have, which helped me grow a lot just in seeing that happen. Because I remember sitting in that parking lot and thinking, this is just a disaster, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 18:48

Literally, yeah, and I think I think a lot of people, I would dare say most people miss out on being involved where God is moving and seeing Him meet needs, open doors, answer prayers real time because they want to wait until they've got the whole plan, the whole agenda where it all makes sense on paper. And then when it all makes sense on paper, we'll go walk. It may not all make sense on paper. It may, you may never get the full plan picture in the full plan. And if that's what you're waiting on, you're gonna wait and you're gonna miss the opportunities that God puts in front of you, and you're gonna miss seeing that He is active and works and answers prayers and open doors and provides resources in real time if we're in the position where we need him to do that, where we are fully dependent on him to do that.

SPEAKER_00 19:59

So that brings up two things for me. Okay. One is you, the thing you just said. We're putting God in a place where he has to act. That's the first thing. Second thing that I do think there is, I think you're right. And yet I think there is a place for planning ahead. On those same trips, you remember what we did. So the first few trips, we would go up, we went up there, and like, oh, we'll find jobs. And that was and that was though pretty difficult the first few times, right? To find jobs. They were God provided every time, every time He did. And it was an but it was an hour by hour. Right.

SPEAKER_04 20:56

Hour by hour uh thing. We were dependent. Yes. And it was like crew this crew is finishing up in 30 minutes, and we don't have anywhere else for them to go, and then something would open up, and a neighbor would walk out and say, Hey, I got this guy or I got this need, and we would be able to fill the day.

SPEAKER_00 21:19

Yes. What where we got to is I would go up there a day or two before and start scouting jobs and lining them up beforehand. So when we got there, we knew what was happening. That to me, I felt I felt like it was more responsible for us to do it that way. For sure. Not that saying what you're talking about is irresponsible. I I to me, I felt more I I thought it yeah, I thought it was more responsible to do that because of the amount. of resources we were bringing up there. So is there a is there a balance in your brain where in and making quick decisions and not thinking about things as much and trusting that the Lord's going to provide or on the other flip side would be the uh planning and planning. What's what's a good middle ground? Because I agree that there are I see that. I what you talk about what you just talked about when what happened in Helene, I saw that. And I truth be told I enjoy running like that. Yeah. I enjoy running like that. And yet I also enjoy knowing if I'm leading something and I know that there are other people that have skin in the game, I want to make that process as comfortable and as profitable for them as possible.

SPEAKER_04 23:00

Yeah. And I think the so to me the the the framework there if you will is we committed to being up there and to leveraging time, resources, influence people to serve, we made that commitment and we started walking it out. And early on in that season of walking it out, we were wholly dependent on God almost hour by hour to provide the right opportunities for us to jump into and serve. And then as we get our feet underneath us and as we understand the environment and the situation then wisdom long term is we build relationships, we plan to the degree that we can plan we organize things to the degree that we can organize them to make our time as impactful as we possibly can. And I feel like that is what we did. But we couldn't do that on day one we had to commit we had to start walking it out and then we were able to move into a season of all right now we now we have the lay of the land and now we know the right people to go talk to we can go scout beforehand and we can make sure that we bring just what we need to meet the needs that exist. That is that is wisdom to operate in that way I I just believe that if we had waited to start until we could do that we would have started too late. We would have shown up when the biggest needs had already been met when the people that had the most desperate uh situations had either been been served or their situation had changed like we would have missed out on a lot of really great opportunities and opportunities to see God moving in real time and guiding and directing us we would have missed out on that. So I I feel like I totally agree like I'm not suggesting that's the recipe for operating a hundred percent of the time but I do think many times it's the recipe for getting started and following the the call that God has put on us as his people and as the body of Christ it it I have never thought about it this way where that trip really highlighted the way we work together you and me in the way that we can with your I probably would have waited a little bit too long.

SPEAKER_00 26:06

And you jumping in there and doing that we found it and then I began to continuously plan right plan and make sure we followed through on those things and found the the the jobs and the people and um I think that's a good representation of how you and I work together. Yeah I would agree I would agree. But you're so what you're not doing is is um suggesting people make rash decisions and ignore the consequences from rash decision making.

SPEAKER_04 27:03

Stepping into those areas of need and those areas of chaos and those areas of hurt and pain for people I'm going to err on the side of saying yes let's go rather than erring on the side of saying hold on let's wait let's figure it out and let's make sure we have a really really good plan. I always want to err on the other side because that's that's what to me that is that is what it that is what it means to live out of a place of faith and I feel like I've already been called I've already been told to go serve and to go leverage the resources and the gifts and the opportunities that God the relationships that God has given me to serve and pour into others.

SPEAKER_00 27:56

What's the flip side of that you think if I'm if should I be doing the same thing or should I be in my what I'm the the way that I go about it sometimes is that me acting in faith as well?

SPEAKER_04 28:20

No I think it is but I think I think where so where I would need to be um sensitive or to some degree moderated is that my risk tolerance is high enough that I could make decisions and end up in positions where I have overpromised or set expectations that I'm not able to meet. And I could look I could try to over spiritualize it and look back and say well I was doing the right thing and God like it was an opportunity how could I not step into it God didn't show up it's on him no it's somewhere along the way I got ahead of where he was leading and calling and I committed to things and I made decisions that were that were more driven by my own desires and my own drive than it was being patient and following after God. So that's what I think that part of me needs to be moderated. I think the part of you that you need to be cautious potentially be cautious about is realizing that there are times and scenarios for often maybe even where your first response rather than to say well hold on wait a second let me plan let me pray let me discern is let me step into the mess and as I step into that mess I'm going I'm going to be the one that's going to walk with the eyes that says all right here's how things can work long term here's here's where we need more planning here's where we need more preparation here's where um where we need to develop relationships like you've got a gift for that I don't as much but I'll charge the hill and so again I I mean it works we work well together in that way yeah but it's a um it's a it's a tension to manage more than it is a problem to solve I think uh agreed and I think it's being aware of each you know for everybody being aware of your propensity and it's going to generally either be to wait until I have all the information or it's going to be to act first and then try to shoestring kind of shoestring it together along the way and the the the the balance is probably somewhere somewhere in in between. Yeah but I I want to operate in a space not every minute of my life like some people can do that and I know people who have who live their life that way and I'm like I'm in awe of it I don't want to operate in a space through in every dimension of my life where I'm way out over my skis all the time and if God doesn't step in and do something miraculous I'm gonna fall on my face I'm not advocating that every area of your life needs to be that way. But I think I am advocating that there needs to be aspects of your life that are lived that way because that's where we experience God's provision and God seeing God work in ways that otherwise we miss. And your relationship with God and his movement in the world is so apparent even undeniable when you're operating in that space of full faith full dependence on him. And as I look around the church and I look around our communities I don't see a lot of that and I think that's part of why we're so content with our relationship with Jesus being going to church Sunday morning raising our hands for a worship song but not too high because we don't want to draw attention to ourselves in living a very cautious safe life and in faith and I don't think that's what God's called us to I think he's called us to way more than that I agree about that for sure.

SPEAKER_00 33:12

I and I've seen that play out in my life many in many different ways in my teenage years in early 20s and then became pretty complacent and comfortable late mid to late 20s 30s up until up until three three and a half years ago three years ago but then three and a half years ago choosing to make moves and choosing to engage in risk more than I had then you start seeing God's movement in your life which I think was was has been a very good thing because and what that does is that builds trust. It's built trust in in in my my relationship with God. Yeah um it's it's built trust because I've seen the risks that I've taken and how they have how they have worked out and how God has worked them out. How he has shut doors and how he has opened doors and how he's redirected within me moving forward regardless of if I have A-Z plan.

SPEAKER_04 34:32

And I think I think what generally happens as kind of a principle is that when you're in your late teens early 20s um it's easier to take those big risks because you have less responsibilities you've acquired less stuff you have less uh generally speaking less people are counting on you for things um you don't have the title to risk you don't have the position the job position to risk like you just it it feels like you're risking less when you do that the older you get in life the more stuff you acquire the more responsibility you have right now I've got a wife and I've got children and a house and a mortgage and a savings account that I want to protect and like I've got all this stuff I've got a title in the career that I'm in. I've got a reputation in that career and now to take those kind of risks it's like well there's a lot at stake and the higher the high the more that is at stake the harder it is to step out and take that risk and I think that's why so many people when they get into that 30s 40s 50s stage of life they their tolerance for that type of risk in their faith becomes less and less and less it's easier to encourage somebody else to do it. It's easier to fund somebody else to do it yourself than it is to do it yourself because you have so much to risk.

SPEAKER_00 36:19

And you've become very comfortable you're very comfortable and you don't want to get out of that brings up a a topic that I wanted to discuss as uh probably one that I've been I've been praying and thinking about uh is wisdom. You said 18 you know that 18 to let's call it 17 to 20 early 20s mid-20s you do have less less stuff and so it's easier to take those risks because that that is you and I both think that is an exploration time where we can go and try a whole host of different things. The consequences are not going to be as severe in some cases because you don't have all those you don't have a family you don't have the job you don't have the title and you don't but you all and you don't have the experience to understand um some of the direction to go in so we like our audience for our trips are young adults those young adults might not have the wisdom of a 30 40 50 60 year old and so in that decision making when they're when they're choosing what to do I want to talk a little bit about how to gain wisdom so you don't end up going off track and you don't end up going down a path that is going to ultimately lead to some really bad consequences but but you I want you I'd have wisdom enough to get onto a path that's going to lead you to to good things and to life. I looked up a bunch of verses about wisdom okay and one of the as I was praying through this I asked the Lord for wisdom to make faster and more deliberate decisions I think the decisions that I make are generally pretty good. It might take me a while to get there sometimes I want to have I want to be aware of the wisdom that I have any wisdom that I've gleaned over the past almost 40 years and I want to be able to decisively and quickly make decisions.

SPEAKER_04 39:03

And so I want wisdom I want wisdom and I want that for the young adults and the first one that came to mind hang on before you go there can I interrupt you real quick because I want to as you're talking I want to I want to clarify something too is that we can't think about this topic and our individual decision making framework or risk tolerance I don't think it's healthy or wise to think about it in a vacuum of just me so what I mean by that is we were designed for community we were designed to function within a body of people uh a body of fell of other believers aligned in values aligned in beliefs right yes and so I think what's more important is that for each of us to realize and be self-aware to understand what our tendency is as it pertains to this topic my tendency I know is to act quickly make decisions and get moving your tendency is more to analyze plan prepare right yes wisdom for you doesn't mean well I need to make decisions the way James makes decisions because you're not wired like that you have a different wiring wisdom for me isn't well I need to slow down all the time collect all the info I don't need to make decisions and address challenges or opportunities the way that you do but what I do need to do is I need to surround myself with a big Steve and big Steve needs to surround himself with with a James and we need to align ourselves because it's I go back to that you know the scriptural analysis of the body of Christ right your your wiring as the body of Christ is more towards the the planning strategy like you're like you're the brain you're more like the brain of the body of Christ I'm more like the legs I'm like let's go right we need both we need both and so while it's great I'm not suggesting you don't pursue wisdom and find ways that you can um you can walk out faith and decision making in a faster way that's awesome pursue that but you also will always need to find people that you align yourselves with that have a different gifting and wiring than you and that's the way the body of Christ functions in a healthy manner.

SPEAKER_00 42:16

Yeah that's a good point uh because there are two verses in Proverbs that speak to that one would be Proverbs 1114 where there is no guidance a people falls but in the abundance of counselors there is safety that's Proverbs 1114 and Proverbs 1522 without counsel plan fails but with many advisors they succeed meaning community having commu a community of people is I think a part of having wisdom when it comes to what we're what we're talking about and the decision making and and thinking about moving forward in something that God's calling us to do.

SPEAKER_04 42:58

Yep and I think to your question you know as you think about young adults specifically man find find men and women that are living out a faith in Christ and a walk and have a family and a career that you respect and that you admire and go figure out how to align yourself with them figure out how to spend time with them figure out how to serve them figure out how to get into environments where you are around those people so that they can pour into you that has been the single apart from the saving grace of God the single greatest provision that God has given me in my life is wise men that are a season or two ahead of me in life That have taken an interest in me and have poured their wisdom out for me to benefit from it. And it didn't happen accidentally. It happened because I was intentional to put myself in environments, and I still am intentional to put myself in environments and places where I interact with those types of men. If you were to look at my calendar over the course of a week or a month, there is a significant portion of my meetings and the time that I spend with people that are that way. Last summer, right? I get my family together. We go on a one-month outwest road trip. It was awesome. You know who we went with? Dennis and Jane Latimer, a couple who are two or three seasons of life ahead of us, have grown kids. Dennis has lived the type of life that I want to live. He has the type of family that I want. He's in the financial position that I want. He has a relationship with Christ that I hope I have someday. And we basically went and begged them to come along with us on this adventure. And we got to spend a month with them. That was an intentional alignment of our lives with their lives so that we could glean and benefit from their experience and wisdom. And I think that's the path. That's the way to grow in your wisdom.

SPEAKER_00 45:49

That's the you're saying you think that's the main way for us to grow in wisdom for in the context we're talking about with decision making and choosing to go one path or another. Yep.

SPEAKER_04 46:09

I'm 46 years old. I don't make a major decision for myself or my family without consulting with multiple men that are either older than me, in another stage of life than me, that I trust and believe in, or men that are in a similar stage of life than me that I know have wisdom and insight into who I am and my tendencies. So even at 46 years old, I don't make big decisions in a vacuum. I I just I just don't do it because I know me. And I know my tendency and my propensity. And I want to invite in and I want to sit at the feet of those that are wiser and better than me in areas so that I can learn from them. Yeah. It's a humbling thing, it's an intentional thing, and it is something that I think is in some ways becoming a lost discipline in our culture. Mentorship.

SPEAKER_00 47:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 47:25

Yeah. Most young people are being mentored by their phone, by AI, by technology. That's where they're going for wisdom and counsel and direction. And the reality is it is a pisspoor substitute for an actual living, breathing, emotional, experienced point of view.

SPEAKER_00 48:03

Clip that. And that's what you gotta say about that. Clip that and post it.

SPEAKER_04 48:11

I'm very passionate about it because I know where I would be if it wasn't for that.

SPEAKER_00 48:20

Yeah. And I yeah, I know you're very passionate about that. And I think those are all things that we absolutely need to engage in. Um especially young. Everybody, not just young adults, but everybody. Yep. I think I probably see that as a as a piece of I see that as a big component of wisdom, of gaining wisdom, in addition to other things.

SPEAKER_04 48:57

Yeah, there are other things too. Yeah. That's the one in my life that has had the biggest, most profound impact on my ministry, my relationship with Jesus, my marriage, my parenting has been seeking mentorship from those that are a season or two ahead. Not sure that has a lot to do with prayer, but you could pray. Pray for those, pray for those men and women in your life.

SPEAKER_00 49:32

One of the thing one of the mentorship has been a big piece of my life. I don't think it has been as big as it and influential as it's been in your life. The thing that has been very influential and a really big teacher in my life is what we talked a little bit about earlier, which is moving forward. Taking steps. Taking steps. Yeah. Yeah. That has been huge for me. Yeah. Choosing to take a step forward and then another step forward and then another step forward. Because my tendency would be to get all of the information before I made a decision. Yeah. That's just not possible. It's not. Because I can't I can't mitigate all of the things that could happen. And that is where I think God calls me out of the boat. Yeah. Is to take those steps. Because I want mentorship. I want mentorship and I want to get a good smattering of opinions about something that I am either struggling with or wanting to do or any kind of decision that I want to make. At the end of the day, I am unique. I am a uniquely designed person that doesn't have a life just like all the people that I'm talking to. And I'll have to live with the decision that I make. I'm going to be the one who lives with that person or has that job or has those children. And so in my deliberation on something, I want to take into account every I want to take into account mentors' opinions and thoughts because they in general are going to be a stage of life ahead of me and that they have experienced things that I have not experienced. And yet for me, I need to make sure that in my heart, like in my inner being, that I am aligned with who God made me to be and aligned in my relationship with Christ to make a decision that I think He is, that is a good decision that is going to lead me on a path of righteousness. But if I had fully done what their wisdom told them to tell me, I wouldn't be here. Yeah, that's a good, that's a great point. And so I think there is, I want to be shaped into the man that God made me to be, and only God knows how to shape me into that man. And so I want to hear all of the different opinions about a decision that I have to make. At the end of the day, I am going to God and asking for wisdom to direct wisdom to put me on the path that He wants me to go on.

SPEAKER_04 54:13

Yeah, yeah. And I I wholeheartedly agree with that. And I think that is a good word. Um I don't I don't have any any even caveats to put on that. I mean, at the end of the day, your uh Jesus alone sits on the throne of our lives, he is the king of our lives. And more important than what Dennis thinks I should go do, and his guidance and direction is Jesus' guidance and direction. And he knows exactly who he created me to be, exactly what giftedness I have, and exactly what purpose he has for my life. And so that is that needs to be the ultimate source for sure. I think he uses other people to help uh to help peel back the layers on that and to help reveal some of that to us. But ultimately, it's gotta be what he is directing and leading us towards.

SPEAKER_00 55:34

Well, as we wrap up, I appreciate your wisdom in my life and the way that you have helped me develop into the man that God is actually calling me to be.

unknown 55:46

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 55:47

So I appreciate that.

SPEAKER_04 55:48

I appreciate that, man. Hey, before we wrap up, let me just this kind of goes back to prayer, but it's it's wrapped into what we're talking about. And uh I even before I knew what our topic was today, I was actually actually read this this morning um in in my devotion time, and it's uh Mark chapter one, verse 35. Um, so Jesus, just to set the context, Jesus had been teaching, he had just healed a bunch of people early on in his ministry, but he is publicly actively in ministry. So he'd been healing people, he'd been preaching, and uh this is what it says, verse 35. And rising very early in the morning, while it was still dark, he, Jesus, departed and went out to a desolate place. And there he prayed. And Simon and those who were with him searched for him. I love that. And they found him and said to him, Everyone is looking for you. And this is what Jesus said to them. If you take a step back and you think about that and kind of parse that out, first of all, first thing in the morning before the sun is up, Jesus is out. He goes to a desolate place, somewhere where he is alone, and he prays. Everybody in the town that he was just in is looking for him. His disciples are looking for him, and he's nowhere to be found because he's out praying, he's out seeking the wisdom and guidance of his father, connecting, spending time with his father. And then when the disciples, when Simon and the Peter and the disciples finally find finally find Jesus, they're saying, Hey man, we gotta get everybody's looking for you. We got to go back. And Jesus' response is, nope, we're leaving. We're going to the next town, because that's why I've come. The pressure was for him to go back and do more where he was. And yet, God, what what he had discerned through his time with God was that, no, we got to go forward. We're going to the next town. And I think that is such a great insight into the need and the power of prayer. As if like he was already doing ministry. This wasn't a, all right, do I do I start healing people now or do I not? Um, should I serve? Should I not serve? No, no, no. He's already in, he's already deep into it. He's so deep into it that people are wanting him more of him. They're wanting him to come back, they're wanting to learn more, they're that they're just wanting to be around him. And he makes the priority to get away, to pray, to seek God, and to follow God, even though the pressure of the people around him were to go back, he says, nope, we're going forward. We're going to keep moving. That probably wasn't a real popular position with the disciples, and certainly not with the people that he had just healed in the town that he had just preached in. But he wasn't concerned about what they wanted. He was concerned about where his father was leading him and directing him. That's a powerful model for us today.

SPEAKER_00 59:49

It sure is. What I think about when thank you for sharing that. I I really like that. I wonder what Jesus was wrestling through in that time of solitude with the Father. Maybe he was comfortable in that town. Maybe he was like, no, I gotta, I gotta get going. Like I Lord, I need strength. Father, I need strength to keep moving. I don't need to stop here. I need to keep moving. There's I I would really enjoy hearing Jesus' prayers. Man, yeah. We he we get to hear a few.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:29

Yeah, I was about to say we get insight into them as we read through the gospels.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:32

And they're very intimate, right? Very intimate.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:35

And I love the they're very vulnerable and transparent.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:38

Yes. Yep. And he expresses fears and sorrows and joys. Um that would be an interesting study to do the prayers of Jesus. We should let me make a little note. Yeah. Prayers of Jesus. Well, thank you for sharing that. Absolutely. And thank you for listening. All right. We're winding down. Yeah, we're winding down. So uh we would appreciate if you would share this. If anybody you think needs to hear it in your circle of friends and family, we would um we would appreciate you sharing it, and we'd love to hear from you. So comment, subscribe, and we'll keep making these and keep moving forward. Amen.